Hi If we have to reincarnate,i bet there is not one person on here ,in all honesty ,would want to come back to this, if they do,all i can say is that they must have had some kind of fantastic life,while they were here.I mean to say ,what is the attraction of coming back,for a start,you have to come back as a different person,different family,and that means never being with the family you loved before.Not great knowing that.

I would not want to come back,i would be to tired to go through it all again,i dont want to die yet,but when i go to the spirit world ,i want to stay ,where it is love all the time and peace,which there is very little of on this earth plain.

I mean what would you rather have,a world in spirit with love,or a world with hate and the occasional love.

I love God very much and i try to give out as much love as i can,and he knows how i feel inside myself and why im saying all this,but this is my feelings on reincarnation.

Love and God bless you all Juditha

The Earth plane..and other planets are a type of school for us to learn.

Like children who begin school in Kindergarten..I'm sure they'd much rather stay home with Mom..but, they will miss out on so much if they do.  Of course, there are those who are homeschooled.  However, I've never heard of anyone "homecolleged" or "homeuniversitied".  You can't get a degree at home.

Often too..we do come back with those who we incarnated with in previous lives.  However, we don't remember it.

I'm guessing you don't remember any of your previous lives?

Of course, you could be a brand new soul who has never had a previous life, like the kindergartner who doesn't want to go to school again.

Or, perhaps you are just new to the Earth plane, but have actually had other incarnations on other worlds?

I can understand being tired in this life..I have days I just feel like I want to "go home."  But then I realize..there are so many more things to learn and discover..

we get credit for time served.

you will always work with your soul group, possibly for hundreds of years, until you resolve issues with that person in your soul group, and the karma is balanced out.  when this is done on earth it works better.   people chose to work on the following list of items  with the following list of people, in the effort to resolve the following issues.  when you are done you can choose whether you want more contracts with those people or not but as your all knowing higher self, you will eventually choose to work with all your people until everything is done, because thats the way.  its the way.  pain builds you and learns you and gives you unlimited beautiful facets.  as all other activities do.  everything bad is good and everything good is good because its all a part of development.  i tell myself the following statement when i lose sight of stuff: "everything is happening as it must."

this school is very special and only certain students are admitted.  we get extra credit for being here.  we come back because we make that decision from our higher selves.  now we dont have all the information, its hard to see why we would ever choose to come back.  personally i have thought many times about not only not returning, but about leaving early.  i know i would come back.  so it would be sort ofa waste.  especially since i may never have in a thousand lifetimes the voice i have now (opera singer)  so if i love it i better use it while i got it.  it was like winning the lottery to get it.  not to say that i wont leave early, but i think finally there is a possibility that i will stay.

when people get all the information while they are here at school, they become prophets or enlightened or whatever you want to call it.  then they might not have to come back, because all their stuff is settled.  there is a time when people stop coming back, and its after they have done the work they set out to do.

so whatever tasks you assigned to yourself, the faster you get them done the sooner you can move on and do other stuff off planet.

perhaps if you remember that everything is happening as it must, maybe there will be some comfort.  very hard among the pain i know.  but you are immortal and you are going to be okay.  the spirits will comfort you if you ask them.  its not the same but its definitely something.  sometimes i ask my group to help me and they dont think i am serious.  when i make clear just how distressed i am and requiring of assistance, they help.  i dont know how.  lots of times they send me good people in  the street to say a kind word.  or they send kittens and puppies.  they especially send things they know i like.  like sparkles.  everywhere.  I'm sure you have had these experiences before.  I am sorry you had been feeling down in the dumps.  youre never alone.  i am sending pul.  

Juditha, I understand where your coming from, And I to know the frustration attached to living out our incarnations. But we must persist there is know choice to be had. Theres so much going on for each of us, theres lessons to be learned, karma to be worked out. We may not like it from this side but we will be O so pleased with ourselves when our time is through.

And just think if you get it all right this time you want have to return. There are many, many dimensions to explore, other world to be creative in , all of this you have to look forward to, being with your beloved father. You just need to keep a stiff upper lip so to speak.

I used to believe that reincarnation works in the way commonly thought, but I don't anymore. One incarnation is enough for almost all of us. IT ISN'T LIKE THE LEARNING HAS TO STOP ONCE WE'RE IN HEAVEN (sorry for shouting). I can't say I know 100% for certain, but I feel pretty confident. There might be some exceptions.



Juditha:

If you prayed to God and asked him to "really" let you know whether or not reincarnation exists in the manner people believe, he might provide you with an answer. It is much better to check in with him, than to try to figure out which books are true and which aren't.

My views exactly sis i agree with everything you said about reincarnation i,m not coming back to this sorry earth plain either ,when i go i,m going to stay gone the spirit world [heaven ] is full of love ,no hate ,no wars ,no pain love deanna

I have another comment regarding the below from Juditha's post. It makes a lot of sense. I know I wouldn't want to come back if I were in heaven, not unless I did so for service reasons. Many people who have had near death experiences have expressed that they didn't want to return, and did so only because they had responsibilities to take care of.

One interesting thing about near death experiences is that people who are caught up in a negative way of living drop this negativity and live according to love after just one experience. So why does one have to live so many incarnations before they can learn about love?

It seems to me that Gurus from the East are partly responsible for the idea of reincarnation. Supposedly a person has to reincarnate over and over again until they finally become enlightened. The thing is I've known plenty of gurus and their followers, and it doesn't seem like anybody was getting enlightened in the manner gurus speak of.

I read something about Elizabeth Claire Prophet's group the other day. It is said that if a person leaves the group, 10,000 incarnations would be added to that person's growth chart. A similar feeling was held by a group I was with. People believed that if they didn't become enlightened they would have to reincarnate again (the number of incarnations weren't stated). They were afraid to leave guru because doing so would mean that they are off the enlightenment/liberation trail.

Has God really set things up to be so difficult? Does it really take hundreds or thousands of incarnations before a person can learn about love?

I do believe in reincarnation in a disc/I-there/soul group sense, but I believe this is quite a different thing than a particular self having to incarnate over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over... again.

Did I go overboard with the  "over agains?" Reminds me of the multiple incarnation idea.






[quote author=juditha link=1160339898/0#0 date=1160339898]Hi If we have to reincarnate,i bet there is not one person on here ,in all honesty ,would want to come back to this, if they do,all i can say is that they must have had some kind of fantastic life,while they were here.

I'd like to add the fact of how people sometimes have what seems like past life memories of people who are living during the same time period as their current self. It may be that each of us is a part of something much bigger than ourselves (such as a disc/I-there), and we experience other parts of this much bigger self when we experience past life memories.

I've never had a memory of a concurrent lifetime.  

I don't think the purpose of the Earth Life System is to simply learn how to love though.  There are many things to learn here, that cannot be learned in the spirit world.

I think too though..too strong a belief in "heaven" will get you there...

Shirley it dosent matter how strongly u believe in heaven ,you will still go there if you believe in our lord god .
Heaven [the spirit world ] is a wonderful loving place and when i finally go there i dont intend to come back deanna

Hi Recoverer I agree with everything you have written here.thankyou for what you have written,and i agree with you deanna as well,God is love and light,courage and strength,wisdom and salvation.
Love and god bless  Juditha

I found there to be much "enlightenment" in your lengthier post recoverer regarding gurus and reincarnating as the same person over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.

I'm sorry, did I repeat myself?  ;)

PUL,
Cosmic_Ambitions

Hi all ,heres something you'll find of great interest on this subject.

www.near-death.com/experience/cayce03.html


Cayce was one soul who brought back much truth from the higher planes. I know its hard to take when where so involved in the physical, but the real truth for all of us is. If we want to get out of here we need to face the very things we deeply want to avoid. Avoidance is what binds you here,and you will continue to repeat and repeat until your so dam sick of the repetition you just can take it any longer, then you will say to yourself enough, I'm going to change the way i respond to this and bing-go its all over,well the hard part is over anyway. What that bing-go moment for each of us is, is up-to your higher self, its all about what we agreed to when we came in from the higher planes.

You must realize that at this moment your soul is working hard to figure it all out , and to say its search is not in-vane here. There are many answers already in print, you may not like all of them though, And you can tell there truth by how strong a response you have when your reading the material. I used to when something I didn't want to know was written and I new it was the truth would say to myself rubbish its rubbish. Then I'd go away and say its all about what I want to believe anyway so I choose to believe so and so. But the truth is not all about what we want to believe its what it is and there is no greater truth than cause and effect . Thats the law you receive back what you put out, maybe thats why where all having such a hard time of it, where cleaning up our rubbish, well I know I'am and I'm happy to do it anything it takes .

deanna wrote on Oct 9^th, 2006 at 4:13pm:

Shirley it dosent matter how strongly u believe in heaven ,you will still go there if you believe in our lord god . Heaven [the spirit world ] is a wonderful loving place and when i finally go there i dont intend to come back deanna

Deanna..that reminds me of something that happened about 2 years ago with me..

I was having a hard time in life (which BTW seems neverending even now) and I remember saying to myself.."I'm not going to come back again." And immediately a voice said to me "Yeah, that's what you said LAST time."

So, apparently..through the various incarnations, I've said the same thing..and I would venture a guess that you have also. :)

In response to Deanna also, I'm wondering... if the afterlife is ALL good... well how can that be possible? Don't we need the bad to have good at all? Like the pendulum theory, of how as far as the pendulum can swing towards the bad, it also swings towards the good- is this JUST a theory or JUST something that exists in the physical world? We all see examples of this every day.
Don't get me wrong, I would love to think that there will only be good things in the afterlife, and I do believe in God with my whole heart, but can anyone explain how the bad is eliminated? Wouldn't that just slide the scale of goodness?

Sheesh! I seem to have a lot of questions. I'm glad I found this board.  :-*

Hi If we have to reincarnate,i bet there is not one person on here ,in all honesty ,would want to come back to this, if they do,all i can say is that they must have had some kind of fantastic life,while they were here.I mean to say ,what is the attraction of coming back,for a start,you have to come back as a different person,different family,and that means never being with the family you loved before.Not great knowing that.
*****************
-Well, I haven't had a fantastic life, myself. But I have SEEN what is possible
in C1 with the "right set of gear" (mental/physical characteristics and life circumstances.) I wouldn't want to accept that some of these things are forever beyond my ken, that I'll just have to accept not knowing what these things are like from a FIRST-PERSON perspective...
What about people who never had a family, Juditha? Orphans, foundlings, and so on? Do they never get to have that experience?
What of people who weren't loved by their families? Who may even have been ABUSED in their families? Might they not want a second chance at having a loving family? Without reincarnation, how are they gonna do that? (Or are they going to have to be with their abusive/neglectful families forever???)
What about people who had potentially loving families, but died as babies? Don't you think eternity as a baby (which is how those family members WOULD see the person) might get kind of stale?
All that  being said, I'd like to think that those who don't wish to reincarnate,
don't have to. Just like those who don't want to exist as disembodied "spirits" shouldn't  have to. And what of those who don't want ANY kind of post-mortem existence, reincarnation or spirit world? Such people exist (my dad being one of them.) Why should they have further conscious existence FOISTED on them, if they don't want it???
Imagine if Ultimate Reality is a DEMOCRACY, and not a monarchy like most religions imagine it to be. Kings (and queens) s*ck, that's why modern civilized nations have done away with them - think about it!
(Or would you prefer otherwise? Why don't you move to the Middle East
then, lots of kings/sheiks/chiefs there to tell you how to live!)
No, better a DEMOCRACY. (And wouldn't that be cool, really???)

B-man

Hi Jules..and welcome to the board!

In this Earth Life System, there is duality.  Hence the good and evil, hot and cold, black and white, yin and yang, physical and spiritual.

In the afterlife...the duality is gone, so there is no good/evil paradigm. Only those of our own making. (See Bruce's book about Max's Hell)

Yes, over there you can know the good without the bad.  It seems strange, doesn't it?  But I tend to think that those who say you can't have or enjoy pleasure without pain, are only trying to find a reason behind the pain.

Hey, B-man...excellent points!  :)

Hi Chumley i do agree that people should have the choice to reincarnate,and i would also like to think this happens,i suppose my faith in human nature is very limited sometimes and i feel myself that this life i have now and will continue to live is my last earth life i want to experience,so my choice would definetly be no more reincarnation,but we all have our own veiws on this,as this is my own personal veiw.
Love and god bless you Juditha

Hi shirley The reason behind the pain of emotions is life.
Love and God bless you Juditha

[quote author=juditha link=1160339898/15#18 date=1160476591]Hi Chumley i do agree that people should have the choice to reincarnate,and i would also like to think this happens,i suppose my faith in human nature is very limited sometimes and i feel myself that this life i have now and will continue to live is my last earth life i want to experience,so my choice would definetly be no more reincarnation,but we all have our own veiws on this,as this is my own personal veiw.
Love and god bless you Juditha

Hi shirley The reason behind the pain of emotions is life.
Love and God bless you Juditha
*****************
You sound depressed, Juditha. Is your life here THAT bad..?
Me, I'm not a particularly happy person myself, and I never
have been. But I still see my life as having... POSSIBILITIES.
You do too - right???

B-man

Hi Chumley i do now see my life as having some possibilities,as i went to this centre today and talked about my confidence and my fears i feel sometimes,and i was so suprised,as this made me feel so much better,which i have not felt for quite a while now,so i can see a better way coming towards me.Im starting to get there.
Love and God bless you Chumley   Juditha

SHIRLEY I PROBABLY HAVE SAID IT BEFORE I,M NOT COMING BACK BUT THIS TIME I SURE DO MEAN IT .

HI JULES WHEN YOU GO TO THE SPIRIT WORLD YOU NEVER FEEL PAIN AGAIN IT IS AN EARTHLY THING  LOVE DEANNA

B-dawg wrote on Oct 10^th, 2006 at 4:24am:

And what of those who don't want ANY kind of post-mortem existence, reincarnation or spirit world? Such people exist (my dad being one of them.) Why should they have further conscious existence FOISTED on them, if they don't want it??? B-man

I can't imagine why anyone would want to die a permanent death, cease to exist. It would be like they never existed.

Excuse me for changing the direction of the topic a bit but -

I don't think those who strongly disbelieve in the afterlife do so for not wanting it. Its just that they are close minded to the possibilities of another existence / alternate dimensions, because they are so dependent on their five physical senses and cannot believe anything is real unless they knowingly experience it themselves. They believe everything can be explained by mainstream physics. I have been learning that mainstream physics and meta physics are pretty much the same thing, its just that we here in western civilisation have fundamentally gone the wrong way about the afterlife in terms of science. This kind of science looks too much at the sum of the parts, rather than the whole. It doesn't understand the interconnectedness of all things. That is why part of my faith in the afterlife is founded in the new scientific paradigm that is emerging. See the link below.

http://www.synchronizeduniverse.com/

Well, I'm not real excited about going through adolescense again, but other than that, if John comes back too...I'll be back in a heartbeat.  I've had more fun than anyone has a right to, and I enjoy challenges.  I'd just as soon not be widowed at 50 again, thank you, but if I had to to spend another twenty years with John in another life with all the physical experiences and challenges, I'm all for it.

At the moment I've got sawdust and wood chips down the back of my shirt (it's thirty something degrees here and I didn't have a furnace functioning until about fifteen minutes ago)...I was going to say I'd skip that, but no...I accomplished something, it was kind of fun, and I'm warm now...nope, I'd do it again.

Never say die wrote on Oct 13^th, 2006 at 10:34am:

[quote author=Chumley link=1160339898/15#15 date=1160468690]And what of those who don't want ANY kind of post-mortem existence, reincarnation or spirit world? Such people exist (my dad being one of them.) Why should they have further conscious existence FOISTED on them, if they don't want it??? B-man

I can't imagine why anyone would want to die a permanent death, cease to exist. It would be like they never existed.

Excuse me for changing the direction of the topic a bit but -

I don't think those who strongly disbelieve in the afterlife do so for not wanting it. Its just that they are close minded to the possibilities of another existence / alternate dimensions, because they are so dependent on their five physical senses and cannot believe anything is real unless they knowingly experience it themselves. They believe everything can be explained by mainstream physics. I have been learning that mainstream physics and meta physics are pretty much the same thing, its just that we here in western civilisation have fundamentally gone the wrong way about the afterlife in terms of science. This kind of science looks too much at the sum of the parts, rather than the whole. It doesn't understand the interconnectedness of all things. That is why part of my faith in the afterlife is founded in the new scientific paradigm that is emerging. See the link below.

http://www.synchronizeduniverse.com/
******************
Most reputable physicists dismiss this "new scientific paradigm"
stuff as crackpot , pseudo-scientific bilge, NSD. Sort of Bigfoot
and Loch Ness Monster research (bet you a nickel they never
turn up anything! Haven't for the last 50 years!!!)
Now, why do you think this is?
To quote Andrew Skolnick (science journalist):

"Ever notice how casinos ban card counters, but they NEVER
ban psychics?"

Makes you wonder, doesn't it..?

B-man

B-dawg wrote on Oct 14^th, 2006 at 9:18am:

Never say die wrote on Oct 13th, 2006 at 10:34am: [quote author=Chumley link=1160339898/15#15 date=1160468690]And what of those who don't want ANY kind of post-mortem existence, reincarnation or spirit world? Such people exist (my dad being one of them.) Why should they have further conscious existence FOISTED on them, if they don't want it??? B-man Most reputable physicists dismiss this "new scientific paradigm" stuff as crackpot , pseudo-scientific bilge, NSD. Sort of Bigfoot and Loch Ness Monster research (bet you a nickel they never turn up anything! Haven't for the last 50 years!!!) Now, why do you think this is? To quote Andrew Skolnick (science journalist): "Ever notice how casinos ban card counters, but they NEVER ban psychics?" Makes you wonder, doesn't it..? B-man

Logic permits that if there is an afterlife and consciousness that is independent of the brain then there's probably a way of explaining it with science.

I don't claim to be an expert myself by any means, but I am curious as to why you would dismiss the new scientific paradigm without actually addressing any of the principles and theories outlined ie. dark matter, charge clusters etc. Telling me about casinos and loch ness monsters doesn't promote healthy debate. Please do not talk down to me.

Also I always tell people this. Do you know that people used to consider phenomenon that is commonplace today like radio and tv waves, flying machines etc to be crackpot and psuedo science?? Times change.

My motto is the role of science is to investigate the unexplained, NOT to explain the uninvestigated.

And what of those who don't want ANY kind of post-mortem existence, reincarnation or spirit world? Such people exist (my dad being one of them.) Why should they have further conscious existence FOISTED on them, if they don't want it???
B-man

Most reputable physicists dismiss this "new scientific paradigm"
stuff as crackpot , pseudo-scientific bilge, NSD. Sort of Bigfoot
and Loch Ness Monster research (bet you a nickel they never
turn up anything! Haven't for the last 50 years!!!)
Now, why do you think this is?
To quote Andrew Skolnick (science journalist):

"Ever notice how casinos ban card counters, but they NEVER
ban psychics?"

Makes you wonder, doesn't it..?

B-man


Logic permits that if there is an afterlife and consciousness that is independent of the brain then there's probably a way of explaining it with science.
*****************
-It should have been explained by now, if it was ever going to be.
Fact is, a neurosurgeon can poke electrodes into your brain and
make you laugh, shout, cry, sing "Yankee Doodle", see a blue patch, or even have a "mystical
experience." Which therefore is the simpler explanation, soul/afterlife
or we're-just-our-brains? (Answer this question as if you had old William
of Occam watching over your shoulder, ready to slit your throat with that infamous razor of his if you didn't pick the simpler explanation..!)
_________________

I don't claim to be an expert myself by any means, but I am curious as to why you would dismiss the new scientific paradigm without actually addressing any of the principles and theories outlined ie. dark matter, charge clusters etc. Telling me about casinos and loch ness monsters doesn't promote healthy debate. Please do not talk down to me.
******************
-I'm not talking down to anybody. (And WHAT ABOUT those casinos, a good psychic oughtta be able to burn up a craps table in nothing flat! What's going on here?)
__________________

Also I always tell people this. Do you know that people used to consider phenomenon that is commonplace today like radio and tv waves, flying machines etc to be crackpot and psuedo science?? Times change.
******************
-Times sure DO change. True, 100 years ago nobody would have believed that (new, unprecedented!) things, like flight or space travel, would ever be possible. Ditto for radio, ect.
Your "new paradigm", on the other hand, states that "ancient wisdom" (i.e., superstitious beliefs best suited to primitive, early agricultural societies like Sumer and pre-dynastic Egypt) are going to be vindicated by modern science. While surely our scientific knowledge is incomplete and I'm sure some tweaking is in order (i.e. "charge clusters" may require a re-investigation of basic electromagnetic theory) but I think it is quite a reach to claim that "charge clusters" have anything more to do with "mystical realities" than that bowl of 5-alarm chili I ate last Tuesday (some ghosts WERE detected, but I'm afraid they were of the "trouser" variety!)
As for "dark matter", its existence is far from a proven thing, it is just a hypothesis to explain some research anomalies. Not to say it doesn't exist, but I think we're better off consulting physicists to try to figure it out, than some unkempt-bearded "guru" in India who hasn't had a bath in 40 years...
(I could go on, but I'll just go with the examples you provided... 'nuff said there!)
_________________

My motto is the role of science is to investigate the unexplained, NOT to explain the uninvestigated.
*****************
And that's a VERY good motto, NSD. I agree 100%.
Sadly, "ancient wisdom" and religion are ALL ABOUT
explaining the uninvestigated, you must admit. If we
allow modern science to go down that road, I don't
think we're going to get much benefit out of it. Although I
suppose certain vulnerable people may derive some comfort from
it, like perhaps the poor family of that girl in Bailey, CO
might. So I guess it isn't ALL bad, right? (Or is it..?)

Just my thoughts for your penny,

B-man

Chumley, its not only bearded gurus from India who accept the evidence for the afterlife.

http://www.victorzammit.com/ See far left column. Quite a list of names who are not exactly spiritualists.

Which therefore is the simpler explanation, soul/afterlife
or we're-just-our-brains?

Of course I've been pondering this question. I strongly believe that we are more than just our brain based on the evidence and research I've come across, but I cannot rest easy on belief, I need to investigate. I WANT to believe in it, true, but I also think I can believe in it objectively. These URL's help me learn more about consciousness and survival.

http://www.horizon-research.co.uk/

http://twm.co.nz/Harm_wldview.html

http://www.survivalafterdeath.org/

I would like to get other people's opinions on this too. I think that the majority of the people on this site clearly believe that we are more than our brains. Afterall this is one of the best sites for conversing with people with afterlife knowledge.

Chumley, its not only bearded gurus from India who accept the evidence for the afterlife.
*****************
-I know that.
_________________

http://www.victorzammit.com?/ See far left column. Quite a list of names who are not exactly spiritualists.
*****************
-Check this out:

http://www.aaskolnick.com/dammit/

(Here you'll find quite a list of names in the left column
also..!)

B-man

julesruleslondon wrote on Oct 10^th, 2006 at 12:41am:

In response to Deanna also, I'm wondering... if the afterlife is ALL good... well how can that be possible? Don't we need the bad to have good at all?

Hey there,

nope! not as far as i know, from reading Bruce's books (very recommended!) the opposite is Love is not hate but in fact just no love. The opposite of hate is not love, but no hate, nothing! It works with everything.

If you didnt know someone for example, would you love them? Probly not because you dont even know who they are, but does that mean you hate them because you dont love them? nope, you just don't love them!

Hope that makes sense.

Ryan

B-dawg wrote on Oct 15^th, 2006 at 8:51am:

Chumley, its not only bearded gurus from India who accept the evidence for the afterlife. ***************** -I know that. _________________ http://www.victorzammit.com?/ See far left column. Quite a list of names who are not exactly spiritualists. ***************** -Check this out: http://www.aaskolnick.com/dammit/ (Here you'll find quite a list of names in the left column also..!) B-man

::) Gee and that proves what exactly? I think Victor refers to people like this as losers and defeatists or simply hard core close minded sceptics.

I have no time for such people. I consider myself to be an open minded sceptic who believes that there is something really going on that we aren't all aware of.  I would not want to mix with people who make it their mission to tear down every bit of research into the paranormal, sometimes just for the. They contribute nothing positive, only negativity. I far prefer open minded sceptics who are not necessarily believers, but like paraspychologists who are willing to consider all the possible reasons for phenomena occuring (normal and paranormal) and not draw any conclusions unless they have fool proof data. They are reasonable.

Quite frankly if you could prove to me somehow that there was no afterlife, then I would say 'Ok why I am wasting my time living, life sucks! Because I am breathing the same air as close minded sceptics!'

Hi Deanna
I am finding that I am experiencing more on past lives, having memories come back to me and the more sipritual work i do the more it seems to happen.
u nless they are other aspects of me that I am tuning into.
Cathy B

Chumley, its not only bearded gurus from India who accept the evidence for the afterlife.
*****************
-I know that.
_________________

http://www.victorzammit.com?/ See far left column. Quite a list of names who are not exactly spiritualists.
*****************
-Check this out:

http://www.aaskolnick.com/dammit/

(Here you'll find quite a list of names in the left column
also..!)

B-man


::) Gee and that proves what exactly? I think Victor refers to people like this as losers and defeatists or simply hard core close minded sceptics.
******************
-Why is it that Zammit resorts to ad-hominem attacks and name-calling
when dealing with these skeptics? Such behavior is typical of a DEFENSIVE position, or so it seems to me..!
So I'd say, whatever abuse he's gotten from Skolnick - well, he
asked for it. (Let that be a lesson on how NOT to win an
argument.)
You know, if you're REALLY convinced you've got a good argument, you PITY your opponents - you don't get angry. (I'm sure you've noticed this simple life fact, haven't you NSD? I hope so anyway.)
__________________

I have no time for such people.
******************
-Then why get angry with them? (Like Zammit does, the poor insecure
schmuck...)
__________________
I consider myself to be an open minded sceptic who believes that there is something really going on that we aren't all aware of.  I would not want to mix with people who make it their mission to tear down every bit of research into the paranormal, sometimes just for the. They contribute nothing positive, only negativity. I far prefer open minded sceptics who are not necessarily believers, but like paraspychologists who are willing to consider all the possible reasons for phenomena occuring (normal and paranormal) and not draw any conclusions unless they have fool proof data. They are reasonable.

Quite frankly if you could prove to me somehow that there was no afterlife, then I would say 'Ok why I am wasting my time living, life sucks! Because I am breathing the same air as close minded sceptics!'
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-Anger again. (Watch that blood pressure, bro..!) AND...
-what if it's the AFTERLIFE that sucks?
It's a distinct possibility, you know. Most ancient
cultures considered it a gray, miserable existence
in a "netherworld" of one form or another (Sumerians, Greeks,
Chinese, early Hebrews, Vikings, Aztecs, Incas, Eastern
Woodland Indians, and Eskimos - just to name a few!)
About the ONLY ancient culture who held forth a "blissful"
afterlife was the Egyptians (from whom we get the entire
concept of "heaven", with some input from Persian
Zoroastrian beliefs.) Who is to say that the Egyptians
were right, while all the other ancient cultures were
wrong?
And I'd say that the afterlife WAS something that the ancients
may have been more knowledgeable about, than people are
today... most of their beliefs would have been (at least related
to) shamanic exploration, NOT the proclamations of money-and-power
hungry professional clerics (as modern religions tend to be!)
Maybe oblivion doesn't sound so bad after all? THINK about
it!

B-man

P.S. Please note that the Egyptians (who pioneered the "blissful
hereafter" idea) were also the first people to hone PRIESTCRAFT
- with full-time, paid professional clergy - into a freaking SCIENCE.
(In fact, the Roman Catholic clerical system is a direct descendant
of Egyptian priestly hierarchy, did you know that?)
After all - who's going to part with 10% of their income (or more - WAY more, depending on how greedy the "Church" is) just to be told
that they are going to spend the rest of eternity stumbling
around like a zombie in a gray wasteland, irrespective of how "good"
(read: OBEDIENT to authority) or "bad" (read: DISOBEDIENT to authority) they might have been in life..!

I am happy with my truth. I prescribe to the belief that 'you create your own reality' and 'you live your own truth'. I have been feeling vulnerable lately and I have been letting you get to me with some of your posts but its going to stop now! I've come on this forum to mix with a variety of people but I do not think the majority of the people on this site think the way you do. While respect everyone's views if I listen too hard to your view I undermine my own conclusions. I've had a rare good day today, so I'm in a better mood  :D

I have a far more vast array of sources of information and even personal experience to call upon than just Victor Zammit's site. From the way I read it he does pity the sceptics. He continues to do what he does with indifference to sceptics, but since they attack him it is reasonable that he defends himself, as is anything else in life.

Regardless of sceptics attacks, like minded believers continue to converse on the subject anyway. I reguarly listen to a radio show called 'Ghostly Talk'. They are all about researching the phenomena and interviewing ghost hunters, people who use ITC and EVP. Occasionally they interview psychics. The show is on independent radio and is produced by volunteers. They do not jump to conclusions reguarly, although I would call them believers but moreover they love the thrill of 'investigation' and discovery. This is a similar attitude to the one that I have. I am also sceptical of people like Victor Zammit, but the difference is that I see him as an investigator and researcher. I do not think he is foisting beliefs on other people because it is evidence that he deals in. You may see the evidence as inadmissable but I see the material presented to correlate well to much other stuff I have encountered and believe it is credible.

P.S. I did not really mean that I would commit suicide just to avoid being around sceptics (Its just that you fired me up with some of your comments and that link to the anti Zammit site).  I do not KNOW about the afterlife for sure, but I believe that there are people who know alot about it. A few of them are on this site I think. I appreciate that you have a different view but you're not going to change my views, ok? If I am wrong then its no harm to you so why would you worry :-?

Peace,

NSD