Something noteworthy here (at least for me.)
I was raised as an atheist, and I consider my interest in things
metaphysical to be a weakness, frankly... sort of like my addiction
to cigs.
Anyway.
Emily Keyes (the victim of the Bailey, CO bum shooting) was from
a family of atheists (read it on a Christian forum!) who opposed
religious activities at school.
I'll bet my booty that Mr. Bum-with-a-gun was a Christian (most bums
are, as well as violent criminals.)
Anyway... these Christians were saying that this 16-year-old girl, unless
she "chose Jesus" during her last hours - is now in Hell.
The corollary of this is that Mr. Bum-with-gun (who committed suicide)
is now in heaven! (More than likely, unless he was a heathen bum
I suppose. But they're sort of rare birds.)
So - if Pauline heaven-and-hell Christianity is true, I've only one thing
to say.
Here goes my declaration. Let it stand for all the ages. Yahweh, if you
exist - heads up, I'm talking to you.
I hereby FORMALLY REJECT you, and your son. Let this declaration stand for all time, and let it be immutable. If at some future time, I "accept you as my Lord and Savior" out of fear or weakness... let it be no good, because I've already formally rejected you and your son on this date, 4 October 2006. With these words, I hereby declare myself pledged to the ranks of the d**ned.
And if you're not a complete swine, you'll at least grant me annihilation upon my death. (I could never worship a torturer anyway, and I know my dad will never convert, so I'll be where he is anyway.)
Hail Satan!

B-man

Oh gosh B-man why do you have to defame God's name when clearly this is the doing of humans who are mentally disturbed.  They will face their trial and judgement.

B-man have you never been in love?  

Oh gosh B-man why do you have to defame God's name when clearly this is the doing of humans who are mentally disturbed.  They will face their trial and judgement.

B-man have you never been in love?
*****************
I hate bullies. I won't worship one.
I will have no truck with people who
worship a bully.
(Now, you must realize I am declaring dis-allegiance to one
VERY SPECIFIC god. If True Reality is an impersonal "Force"
or "The All" or what have you, then no problem. But I won't
worship a tyrant who likes to torture people who refuse to
grovel at "his" feet.)
And hey - maybe if Christianity IS true, then the annihilationist
interpretation is true. In which case I'll be saying "thank you!" to
Yahweh in the end, he'll be granting my fondest wish, should Christian
theology actually be true. Never liked harp music anyway...

B-man

lol harp music!  What about the organ?!

Hey B-man,  we are people of the human race it is up to us to make a success of our lives or not.  God couldn't be bothered with what we think in Earth - the whims of man how annoying. Because we are the ones that have to live with ourselves in the cosmic world. When we get there the ultimate test is can you stand the light or not?  If not .. whose going to suffer?  

[quote author=augoeideian link=1159965756/0#3 date=1159967825]lol harp music!  What about the organ?!

Hey B-man,  we are people of the human race it is up to us to make a success of our lives or not.  God couldn't be bothered with what we think in Earth - the whims of man how annoying. Because we are the ones that have to live with ourselves in the cosmic world. When we get there the ultimate test is can you stand the light or not?  If not .. whose going to suffer?
*****************
Well, tough noogies for me, I guess -

B-man

You most probably will be just fine B-man love  ;)

B-Man,

I am so sorry that you have such a terrible view of Christianity.  I understand how maddening it can be to read some things or hear things from some who follow...just understand that all the followers are human and can be misguided about some assumptions.  God is beyond comprehension, and I always am amused that some Christians act as if they know absolutely everything about God.  The God that I have come to know in my own life is not the "torturer" or one who seeks "grovelers" that you perceive...those descriptions would more accurately fit the Adversary who is currently engaged in war with God in the place of space and time that is now a battlefield.  

If you are open-minded to seeking a better human example of what a Christian really is and what the Christian God is really about, I would suggest reading the writings and life of Mother Theresa.

Slow down, B-man,

What comes through to me is your grief and compassion for these little girls who died.  Compassion and empathy are key insights into the ascendence of our souls, and this is where God dwells.

Don't you know by now, that hells are self created, not imposed on us for not going to church or temple, or from not being baptized or performing any specific ritual?  Rituals are for us, in the here and now - not for the almighty.  

B-man, the murderer who shot himself can not go straight to heaven, even if his last breath said "take me, Jesus,"  because heaven is a state of mind.  His soul knows the pain and severe damage he has wrought, and it would not feel worthy of the love of God without making amends in some way.  This is not to say that he could not repent in whatever realm he goes, and gradually atone.  

Likewise, the little girls who were murdered were innocent and carried no baggage with them or outrageously negative acts.  We are told that there is special care for them and guidance and training.  

As to the girls missing the pleasures of earth and reincarnation being a just reward - I don't know.  That part is unclear to me.  Since I have no recollection of being disincarnate or in Focus 27, I can't compare earthly living to it.  Certainly earth is also a place of learning through "hard knocks," so the pleasures you speak of may be balanced or overshadowed by painful learning experiences too.  

Don't renounce God, as you are part of God.  You are throwing out the baby with the bathwater.  Instead, embrace your compassion, your tears for these girls, your love for their futures cut short.  This is where you find God.


Matthew

Hi Chumley It is not Gods fault,the evil what goes on,God gave us all free will,and if someone commits these terrible deeds he is living in darkness instead of light,the devil is always trying to tempt us away from god,and with those who do this evil,the devil succeeds.The person that killed those little girls was because he chose to follow the devil,and those that show love and feel love choose to follow God "Hence free will". So its not Gods fault.

Love and God bless you Juditha

Hi Dear Chumley,
Your original post begins its main ideas with "I'll bet my booty that...." and   "More than likely that...".   :-?
So in other words you don't know for sure ?   So you're just making up the rest, based on your mix of anger and compassion.  The  Old Testament god mixed anger and compassion in similiar ways, but he didn't turn it on himself. You however turn around and try to damn yourself with it.
Wow, B-man, try to diagram the energy of that! It looks like a plate of spaghetti after my six y o grand-niece has played in it.
Try a short-cut. Just admit that you hate the needless waste of life and loss of innocence.  Admit it breaks your heart, Tough-Man. Weep it out.  Sometimes it takes some tears to clear the soul and see more clearly.
Love  you,
bets

Very well said Matthew.

roger :)

Hello B,

For what it's worth, I am sending peace to you, from my heart to yours. How loved you are.

Inside the heart is where peace can be found, then shared.  A lesson for each of us, at all times....to go back to the heart.

Our core value must be existence itself, from which we can then experience love and happiness. For how can we experience reciprocal love if no being exists to appreciate?

A victim of tragic circumstances can be mourned. But also mourn the pain which the murderer feels, for even inside a murderer's heart is the kernel of truth waiting to be nurtured.  

There is no place the light cannot reach and no place where it cannot be found. Thank you for your light...and your existence, now and always.

love, blink

[quote author=newwayknight link=1159965756/0#6 date=1159969766]B-Man,

I am so sorry that you have such a terrible view of Christianity.  I understand how maddening it can be to read some things or hear things from some who follow...just understand that all the followers are human and can be misguided about some assumptions.  God is beyond comprehension, and I always am amused that some Christians act as if they know absolutely everything about God.  The God that I have come to know in my own life is not the "torturer" or one who seeks "grovelers" that you perceive...those descriptions would more accurately fit the Adversary who is currently engaged in war with God in the place of space and time that is now a battlefield.  

If you are open-minded to seeking a better human example of what a Christian really is and what the Christian God is really about, I would suggest reading the writings and life of Mother Theresa.
*****************
Mother Theresa, eh???
I like way she let the lepers in her missions rot away and die, while
she herself jet-setted the world to get the most up-to-date, expensive
medical care for herself.
She would also deny pain medication to the dying. She's on record
for saying how "beautiful the suffering of the poor  is." (I guess it's
just the RICH people whose suffering is ugly, then?)
Never mind that during the last years of her ministry in India, leprosy
had become a curable disease! Has been since 1981..! But she continued
to let 'em rot. Nice lady huh?

B-man

[quote author=Chumley link=1159965756/0#13 date=1160018119]Slow down, B-man,

What comes through to me is your grief and compassion for these little girls who died.  Compassion and empathy are key insights into the ascendence of our souls, and this is where God dwells.

Don't you know by now, that hells are self created, not imposed on us for not going to church or temple, or from not being baptized or performing any specific ritual?  Rituals are for us, in the here and now - not for the almighty.  

B-man, the murderer who shot himself can not go straight to heaven, even if his last breath said "take me, Jesus,"  because heaven is a state of mind.  His soul knows the pain and severe damage he has wrought, and it would not feel worthy of the love of God without making amends in some way.  This is not to say that he could not repent in whatever realm he goes, and gradually atone.  

Likewise, the little girls who were murdered were innocent and carried no baggage with them or outrageously negative acts.  We are told that there is special care for them and guidance and training.  

As to the girls missing the pleasures of earth and reincarnation being a just reward - I don't know.  That part is unclear to me.  Since I have no recollection of being disincarnate or in Focus 27, I can't compare earthly living to it.  Certainly earth is also a place of learning through "hard knocks," so the pleasures you speak of may be balanced or overshadowed by painful learning experiences too.  

Don't renounce God, as you are part of God.  You are throwing out the baby with the bathwater.  Instead, embrace your compassion, your tears for these girls, your love for their futures cut short.  This is where you find God.


Matthew
*****************
Grief and  compassion? Sure I've got that. And something else...
I HATE people who can't just leave other people alone.
Ever see John Wayne's last movie, "The Shootist"?
John Wayne's character's motto goes like this...
"I won't be insulted, or laid a hand on. I don't do these things to
others, and I won't tolerate others doing them to me."
Sage words. If only people would LIVE by them! Oh, how I despise
"insecure" people who feel the need to attack others. I want to
see them HURT. AND I'd like to be the one, to hurt them.
Wanna know what I'd like?
I'm pretty handy with a pistol. I hope that some THUG - a criminal - a habitual AGGRESSOR - (unprovokedly of course! I'd never try to set such a situation up)
attempts to take me down someday, when I'm ARMED - PREPARED AND READY!!!
Perhaps when I was hiking up in the woods, and I had my piece on
me (for the bears and cougars endemic to my area.) Maybe I'd stumble
across somebody's meth lab or pot patch maybe? We got lots of that around here as well...
What a cathartic experience that would be. And I frankly would feel
WONDERFUL about having removed a sh!tbag (or two) from the planet.
How I would LAUGH, after I got off on self-defense..!
Sound raw? It is. But I'm being honest here, and NOT blustering.

B-man

P.S. I'm also in a VERY foul mood at the recent ban on Internet
gambling. I was making a nice secondary income as a bonus
hunter (playing blackjack.) Not anymore! Being destined to a life of being poor,
courtesy of the odious rat bag we call "Washington" has put me
in a feisty mood.
Once again... why can't people just leave other people the ****
ALONE???
AND - the casinos are folding due to the threat of PENDING legislation!
(How spineless can you get..? I think I despise cowards, even more
that I do bullies and habitual aggressors!!!)
So I'm pi$$ed off for a number of reasons these last few days.
Anyway - sorry to all you over-sensitive types out
there...

B-man:

Please don't  take this the wrong way, But I think you need to be hugged! :P

BD

B-man,

And in that case where you are mugged, and you brandish your pistol, and take the creep out, as they say - then what?  You stand over his lifeless body.  The pure violence of the situation sinks in.  

True enlightenment, is I'm convinced our common humanity with our fellow men and women.  This violent defense might give you a temporary feeling of satisfaction, but your spirit knows that the mugger/attacker's spirit was lost, and killing him in a sense killed a little bit of you.  

In a practical sense, yes, defend yourself, life and property.  But I wouldn't count it as a victory of any kind.  Weeks later, the nightmares come, and the grief at having injured another - even if he "deserved" it.

M