We are all here in the physical to learn lessons which will ultimately aid in the evolvement of our sprituality, whether we realise it or not. Before we are born our new spirit has already chosen it`s path so that we may learn these lessons and benefit from them.

However, there are some very harsh lessons to be learnt while we are here and this got me wondering as to whether there is retribution in the Afterlife, or not?

Take the scenario of a child abductor kidnapping a child, molesting/raping it then carrying out the ultimate act of murdering it. The perpetrator gets caught and is sent to gaol where he ultimately dies, and the parents know who he is. Now, they may believe in capital punishment and think that prison hasn`t been a good enough punishment for him.
When one of the child`s parents dies and passes into the Afterlife, where we are told what we wish/desire can be manifested, although they will be in a totally different BST to the abductor, can their spirit meet with the spirit of the abductor to extract further retribution for their crime? If so, how could this retribution be achieved?
Or, is the Afterlife one of total forgiveness and love even for such a horrendous crime?

What are you views on this, please?

roger   :-/

Hi Roger,

I believe that there is no retribution in the afterlife. Since everyone sees their whole life at some point after transition, they see what they have done and 'feel' everything they have ever done to someone from the experiencers feelings. They only judge themselves. I don't believe that retribution ever enters the picture.

And who is to say that the rapist and rapee had this in their life blueprint to help each other with karma.

Love, Mairlyn

Hi Roger-
I agree with Marilyn, but with a couple of clarifications. First, God is not a Big Nasty Guy in the Sky with a Cosmic Flyswatter looking for bad guys to abuse. That kind of retribution doesn't occur. The rtetribution that people describe is always self generated. At death, when abruptly faced with total and unlimited love, PUL with overflow, people who mess up in their past lives for petty reasons tend to feel infinite regret. As a result, they are often very hard on themselves, both in judgement, and also in election of a next life in which they suffer terribly in an effort to be worthy, so that God won't terminate them eternally. Of course, if they simply realized that they themselves are, and always have been, God, they'd be a little easier on themselves.

Doing past life work I hd a patient who recalled being one of a group of people who tried to play Robin Hood - stealing from a nasty land baron to deliver goods to improverished peasants. They were caught, put in a dungeon, chained to a wall and starved very slowly to death. They went together into heaven, where they were all alone. Then they came back to the world to discover lessons about not stealing etc. We expecrt much the same from Muslim martyrs, who will doubtless attain the heaven they expect, and then return to live in a world that has lessons available about killing and love. Given the usual pattern, realization of their nature, and that of God, comes after attachment to BSTs has expired.

In the "small", when we tell ourselves, "Oh oh. I really caused a prolem and I'm sorry, because I really love that person," we're getting the same lesson, and the self self-induced "retribution".  Looked at from the "large", it's like God has a headache and seeks to get rid of it by learning to love the painful part, while the painful part trembles in utter existentiasl dread of being unworthy.

In the 1960-1970 era, hippies who were nasty guys, but took LSD anyway, often got precisely this same kind of lesson as they struggled to bring their  selfish personalities into line with the infinity of God's love. Having gone to hell a few times, myself, I assure you that the experience is far too real. Scared hell out of me, though. Reminds me of going through a cosmic knothole. Glad I'm done with that for the moment.
dave

Roger,

I will take a step back and go over a few fundamentals that help me keep things in perspective. I have to remind myself of these every day. I'll tell them from a somewhat Christian perspective since we in the West all have at least a passing familiarity with that belief system.

1. God is not an as*hole.
2. Jesus has a sense of humor. I've been told by guidance that he cracked jokes while carrying his cross.
3. People get too wrapped up with Jesus as man/God (have mercy on me, forgive me, I worship you and all that) instead of focusing more on his teachings, which what he came here for and for which he suffered so terribly.

And his teaching?

Pure Unconditional Love. There's no room for fear in that. Not on your part, not on the part of the child murderer, nor on the part of the victim. Things will be made right but not with fear-based revenge. The souls involved, with the assistance of guides and helpers, will ensure that karmic balancing occurs through love and learning, not hatred and revenge.

Love,
Rob

Oh yeah, what Dave said. Everything Dave says.

LOL, Rob! -  When I do therapy, I always feel that people with a sense of humor are essentially OK. I guess that it's hard to be pathological whle laughing. We impose so much heartless stuff on ourselves and we feel unworthy because we're still growing, guilty because we were ignorant in past years, fearful because we don't know how to fix everything. I think you've gotten to the core of it - take it lightly and trust to love.  Still, as others have told me, "When you're up to your as* in alligators, it's hard to remember that the initial idea was to drain the swamp."
-d

Thanks for your replies. My initial thoughts were that Marilyn and Dave had replied to my question from the perpetrators point of view and not from the victim`s parents view. I understand what you say in that they judge themselves during their past life review.

For me, Rob hit the nail on the head with his "Pure Unconditional Love. There's no room for fear in that. Not on your part, not on the part of the child murderer, nor on the part of the victim. Things will be made right but not with fear-based revenge. The souls involved, with the assistance of guides and helpers, will ensure that karmic balancing occurs through love and learning, not hatred and revenge."

However, this does lead me to ask, "Why, if this can happen in the Spirit world, cannot the same happen here in the physical? Why is this world filled with so much hatred, nasty deeds, destruction, etc? Why don`t the spirits that are (re)incarnating evolve and set out to create a better world?"
I find it hard to believe it is like it is so the population has lessons to learn. Will it ever get better? Seems to me it`s on a path to self destruction. What then?  

roger  :-/

 

If it is all really an illusion, then there is nothing to have retribution for. If you are the perpetrator, that may sound like good news. If you are on the receiving end, it might take longer to comprehend. But if we are all interconnected, who is the perpetrator and who the victim?

If it is an illusion, then why try to make the illusion better? (Don't remind me I asked that next time I am in pain, physical or otherwise!). Wouldn't it make more sense to learn to get out of the illusion?

Hi Roger I remember i read this book a couple of years ago,which was written by a medium and it was about this nun who communicated with this medium.
She worked in the hospital,in the spirit world and she nursed spirits who died from tragic circumstances as well as spirits who commited utter evil,whilst they were on the earth plain.
This certain spirit she was nursing had been a german nazi in the war and he was responsible for the death of a lot of jewish people that died in the gas chambers,i think he was a general as i remember.
Anyway this jewish lady who had died in the gas chambers,was also in this hospital and this nun told her that this german general needed to see her,at first she was reluctant to do this ,but having felt the love emanating there ,she decided to see him.
As she approached his bedside,she started to feel pity for this man,as she could see the sadness in his face of the terrible guilt he was feeling of his crimes on earth.
She stood over him,and he held her hand and asked her to forgive him,for the terrible cruelty against her people and she knew in her heart that he truly needed her forgiveness,so he could move on.
She gave him her forgivness and love,and he started to recover after that and join in with the pure unconditional love of spirit.
Love is the most powerful feeling within humanity and love wins everytime.
Love and God bless you all juditha

Thank you for this Juditha.

Love, Mairlyn ;-)

Thanks, Juditha. In all of our talk about feeling good about ourselves, creating a good life, removing personal attachments  etc, it sometimes is useful to remember that we have strength in the love of others. In fact, when our own well of charity seems to have dried up, there is usually somebody who reminds us, and supports us, in love. It may be someone that we'd never have expected. Your story reminds me of the many Holocaust survivors I've worked with - some Jewish, and some German - all needing love.

d

Thank you, Juditha,
for sharing that retribution is not needed here either.
love, bets

Retribution may not be needed for some, but be assured it dose exist in the after life. We come in under the law of cause and effect, energy out energy returned. Theres so much for us understand , to much in fact , when discussing these issues we need to look past what we want to believe, what feels comfortable for us.To see the truth, and that truth is you can not avoid that which you have put forward,we are cause and effect, and we must work through all that we have created. So some how we have to balance out our energy, how that energy is worked out is up-to the being involved, how fast or slow will be decided by the guides and higher self.  

The after life is not just some self dreamed up joy ride, you still have to work at evolving your consciousness. And from the higher perspective you are willing to do the work.

There is know other way out of this system except to pass your tests and equalize/ balance your energy out put. Its a long ,long, long road home.

Nicely said LightR_on.

There is judgement, we judge ourselves and we are judge. If we bring the wrath of God upon us he will take away our personality and we will return to cosmic dust.

Roger nice question;

Quote:

However, this does lead me to ask, "Why, if this can happen in the Spirit world, cannot the same happen here in the physical? Why is this world filled with so much hatred, nasty deeds, destruction, etc? Why don`t the spirits that are (re)incarnating evolve and set out to create a better world?"   I find it hard to believe it is like it is so the population has lessons to learn. Will it ever get better? Seems to me it`s on a path to self destruction. What then?

As people become more and more filled with light and love, the gremlins will find they have no bodies to reincarnate into.  And they will dissolve into cosmic dust.

Love and peace.

Yes augoeideian, there is a war between light and dark  being fought,

Will we win?  The light that is

I don't at present know ,but the prophecy is true and real.

We will see, but I can assure you this is indeed taking place at this present time,

within the astral.

Ah LightR_on your perception is so true.  Of course the Light will win!  :)

True Hearts might have to go into hiding a bit but you know when the Hand of God moves it moves fast and swift.  And even if this means destruction those with Light in their hearts have never anything to fear.

The astral region has being leeching of the earth for long now - it is time to get rid of the trailer trash by God's will.

Love to you and Godspeed.

LightR_on wrote on Sep 28^th, 2006 at 7:09am:

Yes augoeideian, there is a war between light and dark  being fought, Will we win?  The light that is I don't at present know ,but the prophecy is true and real. We will see, but I can assure you this is indeed taking place at this present time, within the astral.

in response to LightR and others,

I agree with you fully that there is a struggle going on, and in order for good and virtue to have any degree of value, there must be an element of justice and consequence.  Whether you describe it as judging yourself, or God judging you, either way you are facing responsibility for the consequences of your actions.   I do not think that we, as individuals, take things into our own hands to settle "accounts" with those who wronged us or hurt us in this life.  The people who did evil must face that reality of evil action when they proceed over....whether this is a private hell as described in Bruce's book or being turned over to the jailer until the last farthing is paid, as in a Christian perspective.   However, note that the true Greek word in the Bible when referring to souls being sent to hell is "eons" which is a temporary time, and also that being turned over to the jailer until the last farthing is paid also connotates a hell that is not permanent.  In some of these areas, the Christian perspective matches what Bruce has observed, in a soul having to work up through something before being able to reach the Elysian Fields, so to speak.  

With all due respect, though, I cannot believe in any way that someone "contracts" to be a child molester, rapist, etc. prior to their life in this world.  When a person is doing such things, I believe they are moving far, far off track from what they were intended to be and unrestrained free will allows them to do such dark actions...but it would be awful if such evil was premeditated, and is completely alien to the nature of God as I have experienced God.  The look in the eye of a premeditated, violent person has nothing akin to the light of God, and is more in league with the war that LightR has spoken of (as is the look in the eye of the man in the corporate boardroom whose decisions that are motivated only by financial interests spawn untold suffering on the communities gutted when thousands of jobs are offshored)

Hi Caryn and LightR_on, my concerns/opinions:

There is a war going on in the astral, between those who THINK they're right, or wars within some spirits. That are those who probably go for another ride on planet earth until they stay away from fighting for the right doctrine and/or some truths and prophecies written down.

The stronger one makes "cause and effect", the weaker becomes free will. That's why I either don't understand the one nor the other when talking about human decisions.

Spooky

Forgive 7 X 70.

Do you think for one moment if there was True Light on Earth - we would have wars, famine, crime, murders, political manipulation, abortion, unwanted births, animal cruelty and all the other horrors that are happening right nowand we just think it's all normal - that's life.

And why is this happening?

It is happening because the Devil lives in the Astral Region.  What point did you miss about this?  Thanks to him we are in this situation we are today.  And thanks to people that are so weak and unable to let Christ in their lives, for their own benefit, they allow themselves to be manipulated by him and his croonies.  This is the Truth.  And it is happening all over, his clutches are everywhere.  He is subtle and disguises himself in all forms of glitter and gold and promises and even the very name of God himself.

So it has nothing to do with 'guilt' it has everything to do with discipline and knowing the way the devil works.  And consciously working with Christ to elimante the manipulation that this traitor brings.

The whole truth and nothing but the truth.

I really like what Juditha posted. It says a lot.

Life is set up in the physical so that there are bound to be people who do negative things. The fact of how there are many people who do negative things shows that this is the case. I'm grateful that I get to experience a lifetime that doesn't include such negativity, and consider it a joyful time when souls who experience such negativity find their way out of their confusion.

If satan exists like some people believe, then why doesn't God,  Jesus and God's angels come kick their buts now, so they'll stop messing with God's children? Isn't life tough enough in the physical without allowing somebody such as satan to intefere. Especially since we already have our egotistical nature to contend with.

Considering that a lot of effort is put in by light beings who help spirits find their way out of dark places and dark states of mind, it is hard to believe that God and his helpers would just sit on their hands and allow a being such as satan to continue to do what he supposedly does.

I do believe that it is possible that there are some negative minded earth bound spirits who mess with people if people allow them to do so. They aren't forced to move on because they aren't seen as beings who are inately evil, but rather as confused beings who are inately divine. Plus, they don't have as much power as the satan idea suggests. If people give in to them, it may be that they already have something in common. They share a similar confused state of mind.  For instance, an earthbound spirit who used to be a drug addict and connects energetically to a person who is a drug addict. Or a mean and hateful earthbound spirit who attaches energetically to a mean and hateful person.

There could also be negative energetic fields that are created by people, and the energy of such a field gets attracted to a person who creates energy of the same wavelength.

Marilyn:

I don't believe that the below is true. I don't believe that beings of love in the spirit World would orchestrate such a thing. Certainly the possibilities of existence can be explored and completion reached without purposely making things happen in such a way. It seems to me that when you consider things like earth changes and when Jesus came down here, the spirit World has something else in mind. They want us to grow beyond being rapists etc.

It may be that beings in the spirit World realized that such a thing might happen despite what they want, since we're basically free to do what we want while we're down here, and therefore,  unfortunately, some souls have to be assigned the task of living such tough incarnations.



wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2006 at 11:03am:

Hi Roger, I believe that there is no retribution in the afterlife. Since everyone sees their whole life at some point after transition, they see what they have done and 'feel' everything they have ever done to someone from the experiencers feelings. They only judge themselves. I don't believe that retribution ever enters the picture. And who is to say that the rapist and rapee had this in their life blueprint to help each other with karma. Love, Mairlyn

Augoeideian,

I'm not stating that the True Light is entirely illuminating the physical, seen from within. I'm aware of many evils here, sometimes I wish I was not. But this does for me not implicate a dark force, and/or the devil. I see it as a lack of awareness. I find dualistic spiritual beliefs not convincing, for me this doesn't fit together with creation in itself. Of course we have good and bad, everyone "knows" what's good or bad, but to make spiritual, and quasi-personalized forces out of it that makes no sense to me.

>>>So it has nothing to do with 'guilt' it has everything to do with discipline and knowing the way the devil works.  And consciously working with Christ to elimante the manipulation that this traitor brings.<<<
I am completely different opinion, if you interprete that way the bible, and especially the New Testamentum. This way of interpreting sets people in fear, whether they are on the right side or not, urge them to believe the "right belief" and make them even more feeling guilty. How much more is gained if we focus on that everyone is unique and uniquely appreciated by God, and forgiven the sins. Everybody is a sinner isn't it? You know, throw that first stone? And, what about the prodigal son? That's the things I like in the bible. And isn't the telling about the healing from the demons not mainly a lecture about demonology but much more a telling about a healing by caringly approaching another person in the right way? The point is appreciation, of oneself, and others, not asking for elimination of "manipulations" that the "devil" brings. This being free, rid of, the heavyness of evil and the related concerns is to me something that belongs to the afterlife- yet, excluded some very wise illuminated insightful persons who might have found the Garden Eden right here in the physical already.

The devil is not living in the astral. There are many people having fun or having hell, similar like here, but with much more degrees of personal freedom. There are common traits, there are leaders, but there is no authority of evil that has given might- as long as one not wants it.

Again, I'm not saying there is no evil, but the way to remove it for me seems to be not the one to divide the world into the devil-followers and the God-followers.

Spooky

Is there retribution in the afterlife?

There is a form of universal retribution and this form of justice is not limited to the afterlife alone. It is the universal law of cause and effect. Here is a excerpt taken from the book Autobiography of a Yogi that illustrates the cosmic law of justice at play:


A great yogi by the name of Trailanga ate only occassionally. After weeks without food, he would break his fast with potfulls of clabbered milk offered to him by devotees. A sceptic once determined to expose Trailanga as a charlatan placed a large bucket of calcium-lime mixture ( a mixture used in whitewashing) before the swami.

"Master", the materialist said, in mock reverence, "I have brought you some clabbered milk. Please drink it."

Trailanga unhestatingly drained ,to the last drop, the container full of burninig lime. In a few minutes the evildoer fell to the ground in agony. " Help ,Swami, Help!" he cried. "I am on fire! Forgive my wicked test!"

The great yogi broke his habitual silence. "Scoffer," he said, "you did not realize when you offered me poison that my life is one with your own. Except for my knowledge that God is prescent in my stomach, as in every atom of creation, the lime would have killed me.Now that you know the devine meaning of boomerang, never again play tricks on anyone."

the well-purged sinner, healed by Trialanga's words, slunk feebly away.

The reversal of pain was not due to any violation of the master, but came about through unerring application of the law of justice which upholds creations' farthest swinging orb. Men of god-realization like Trialanga allow the devine law to operate instantaneously; they have banished forever all thwarting crosscurrents of ego.

"vengence is mine, I will repay, said  the Lord".

what is the need for man's brief resources? The universe conspires for retribution.

baby_duck

"The universe conspires for retribution" ...?
Well, it sure seems that way when I stub my toe and get upset and drop and break something else etc. With only a tiny bit of effort I can create a really horrific soap opera, and then I can get all tangled up in the blame game.  

I think Caryn has a point, that "The Devil lives in th astral"  - and the problem is to figure out just what that means. Since everything is God, including the Devil (fallen angels are still manifestations of God) that suggests to me that in the (lower) astral, just as in the everyday world, we are likely to encounter opposition of some kind.  But not just in the astral. If we look at the present world we can find many regions in which there are people with one attitude who are being set upon by people with other attitudes, and both sides are firmly convinced that they, and they alone, are right. Thus, the Inquisiution was an effort by holy men to help everyone to be holy and to find the way. Of course the free thinkers, Jews and others who were imprisoned (or worse) were also good and holy people who wanted everyone to be holy etc in spite of interference by the Inquisition. The Protestant Reformation was an example of a good and holy person deviating from the ways of other good and holy people, with each calling the other unpleasant names.

So long as we realize that there is only God, multifaceted and manifested in innumerable ways, then all this "good versus evil" stuff is clearly a matter of where we stand when we look. A suicide bomber is a holy martyr, and the innoent people killed are equally holy martyrs. (Just ask them!) So we have to climb down from the "Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil" and start looking at life in terms of what works best, and what activities seem to have flaws that we might repair.

In a very practical sense, if we attack spirits with the idea of right and wrong, we can get into some remarkably powerful arguments, citing the forces of light and darkness in opposition - yet dark is only the relative absence of light, and when we figure it all out, the light is God. In a sense, all the hassles of the world arise from God's efforts to evolve a collection of replicates of Its own Nature. This has to be evolution, as opposed to point blank creation, because it has to be valid in and of itself, and thus rooted in the ability to arise out of the primal nothingness. That which is created relies upon its Creator. That which arises immanently from voidness, even though it may presently be existing within a created vehicle, shares the Divine. Accordingly, when we deal with "stuck demonic spirits", it's a lot easier to remind them of their Divin nature, so that they are transformed (a la Prodigal Son) as opposed to fighting them with exorcisms and other hostile actions. Experience bears this out.

dave

Albert said:

Quote:

I don't believe that beings of love in the spirit World would orchestrate such a thing. Certainly the possibilities of existence can be explored and completion reached without purposely making things happen in such a way. It seems to me that when you consider things like earth changes and when Jesus came down here, the spirit World has something else in mind. They want us to grow beyond being rapists etc.

I must disagree with you Albert. My husband and I had life blueprints for me having an abusive life. I KNOW this from talking to him in the afterlife. I sure 'they' want us to grow beyond being wife beaters too. But there is always karma to be worked out and lessons to be learned.

Again I say that Neale Donald Walsch's book "Little Soul And The Sun" explains this perfectly.

There once was a little soul who knew itself to be the light. This was a new soul, and so, anxious for experience. "I am the light," it said. "I am the light." Yet all the knowing of it and all the saying of it could not substitute for the experience of it. And in the realm from which this soul emerged, there was nothing but the light. Every soul was grand, every soul was magnificent, and every soul shone with the brilliance of MY awesome light. And so the little soul in question was as a candle in the sun. In the midst of the grandest light- of which it was a part- it could not see itself, nor experience itself as Who and What it Really Is.

Now it came to pass, that the little soul yearned and yearned to know itself. And so great was its yearning that "I" one day said, "Do you know little one, what you must do to satisfy this yearning of yours?" "Oh what, God? what? I'll do anything!? The little soul said.

"You must separate yourself from the rest of us," I answered, "and then you must call upon yourself the darkness."

"You may choose to be any Part of God you wish to be," I said to the little soul.

"You are the Absolute Divinity, experiencing Itself. What Aspect of Divinity do you now wish to experience as you?"

"You mean I have a choice," ask the little soul.

And, I answered, "Yes." You may choose to experience any Aspect of Divinity in, as, and through you."

"Okay," said the little soul, then I choose forgiveness. I want to experience my Self as that Aspect of God called Complete Forgiveness."

Well, this created a little challenge, as you can imagine.

There was no one to forgive. All I have created is Perfection and Love

"No one to forgive?" asked the Little Soul, somewhat incredulously.

"No one," I repeated. "Look around you. Do you see any souls less perfect, less wonderful than you?"

As the Little soul twirled around, and was surprised to see himself surrounded by all the souls in heaven. They came from far and wide throughout the Kingdom, because they had heard the little soul was having an extraordinary conversation with God.

"I see none less perfect than I," the Little Soul exclaimed." Who then, shall I have to forgive?"

Just then another soul stepped forward from the crowd. "You may forgive me," said the Friendly Soul.

"For what?" the little soul asked.

"I will come onto your next physical lifetime and do something for you to forgive," replied the Friendly Soul.

"But what? What could you, a being of such Perfect Light, do to make me forgive you?" the Little Soul wanted to know.

"Oh," smiled the Friendly Soul, I'm sure we can think of something."

"But why would you want to do this?" The Little Soul could not figure out why a being of such perfection would want to slow down its vibration so much that it could actually do something "bad."

"Simple," the Friendly Soul explained," I would do it because I love you. You want to experience your Self as Forgiving, don't you? Besides, you have done the same for me."

"I have?" asked the Little Soul.

"Of course. Don't you remember? We've been All Of It, you and I. We've been the Up and the Down of it, and the Left and Right of it. We've been the Here and Now of it, and the Now and Then of it. We've been the Big and Small of it, the Male and Female of it, the Good and Bad of it. We've been the All of it.

"And we've done it by agreement, so that each of us might experience ourselves as The Grandest Part of God. For we have understood that.....

"In the absence of that which You Are Not, that Which You Are, is NOT.

"In the absence of 'cold,' you cannot be 'warm.' In the absence of'sad,' you cannot be 'happy,' without a thing called 'evil,' the experience you call 'good' cannot exist.

If you choose to be a thing, something or someone opposite to that has to show up somewhere in your universe to make that possible."

The Friendly Soul then explained that those people are God's Special Angels, and these conditions God's Gifts.

"I ask only one thing in return, " the Friendly Soul declared.

"Anything! Anything," the Little Soul cried. He was excited now to know that he could experience every DivineAspect of God. He understood, now The Plan.

"In the moment that I strike you and smite you," said the Friendly Soul, " in the moment that I do the worst to you that you could ever imagine---in that self-same moment....remember Who I Really Am."

"Oh, I won't forget!" promised the Little Soul. "I will see you in the perfection with which I hold you now, and I will remember Who You Are, always."

"What is this darkness, o Holy One?" the little soul asked.

"That which you are not," I replied, and the soul understood.

And so this the soul did, removing itself from the All, yea, going even onto another realm.

And in this realm the soul had the power to call onto its experience all sorts of darkness. And this it did.

Yet in the midst of all the darkness did it cry out, "Father, Father, why hast Thou forsaken me?" Even as have you in your blackest times. Yet I have never forsaken you, but stand by you always, ready to remind you of Who You Really Are; ready, always ready, to call you home.

Therefore, be a light unto the darkness, and curse it not.

And forget not Who You Are in the moment of your encirclement by that which you are not. But do you praise to the creation, even as you seek to change it.

And know that what you do in the time of your greatest trial can be your greatest triumph. For the experience you create is a statement of Who You Are-- and Who You Want To Be.This is taken from Conversations With God....Books 1 & 3 Written by: Neale Donald Walsch

Because of the popularity of this, he wrote "Little Soul And The Sun"

Love, Mairlyn

I like Walsch. was just reading something today in a magazine how he said all of us can talk with god and he's gotten many many letters from people appreciating his books and confirming they too, have had similar conversations with god, what ever name they give their god.

picked something from Mair's post quote:  "In the moment that I strike you and smite you," said the Friendly Soul, " in the moment that I do the worst to you that you could ever imagine---in that self-same moment....remember Who I Really Am."

and I thought to myself, yes, this sort of activity goes on between husband and wife, or mother and daughter, etc etc etc. we do need to hold vision for one another, and why is it we hurt the one we love the most? because we need to get into balance, and loved ones are more effective at that than someone who won't take our bull dung we toss out. balance is like the scales of justice. yes there is justice and the light is justice and the light obliterates the shadows, the darkness must flee before the light.

thats not what I wanted to say..Juditha has perfect simplicity going on. forgiveness is more than u think it is and her story should have shut us all up because we come here to do that...forgive. or give as before the grievance occurred. then we are set free. I'll have to tell u a little story. I'll try to keep it short as Juditha had a much better example.
I forgave my mother once because I suddenly realized she had done nothing that was intentionlly done. she had not known I had been hurt by her in my childhood years for emotional neglect, or simply put, rejected and ignored. it caused my withdrawal into myself. this is just like when Jesus said "forgive them father, for they know <not> what they do." ok, someone will probably argue with me J never said that. so sorry if I bring it up, but <I> was the one who forgave my mother for she knew not what she had done. I had looked into her sad eyes one day as she said to me "my mother, (deceased grandmother guide/counselor)  has told me I did not treat you right..."  her soft voice faded off into some bottomless place where sorrow dwells and I had no words to say either to such a comment. I had waited an entire life to hear those words and now that they had arrived our karma was erased and there was a release that forgiveness brings...it was what I'd come here to learn, forgiveness. forgiveness prepares the soul to learn of PUL, the unconditional love which is the light.  what I saw in her eyes in that instant was she had not been aware how she had effected my withdrawn personality..for the one thing a toddler loves is it's mother and if its mother openly rejects that child, you can bet it effects your entire life.
but now with this admission, there was a balance occurring. a justice in it. a moving past the issues into clearness; she was very brave in that moment to reveal her error, that she had not loved. that was her setting me free. now, truly, I did not have to be affected by my childhood..and this is freedom for the spirit..that hurt can be put away. it is about forgiveness which prepares a way for real love to come in. forgiveness is just the first step.
I think we are here to love unconditionally, but that is the real challenge, and that the forces of darkness live in the ego itself, but by choosing the light and focusing on what we would like to see, to pray without ceasing, that is how we will set each other free. btw, I like this thread..keep talking, I didn't mean we should shut up!
the question this topic brings up will always be with us and can never be satisfactorily answered in one thread..it must be a personal question/experience then, but some very very good comments and answers and viewpoints are here and all are valid.
http://images.bravenet.com/common/images/smilies/grouphug.gif

Marilyn,

So glad you put that up on the board again. So many posters responces have remind me of this. At one point, I went to Walsh's
site to get a copy but couldn't.

Thanks,
Love, Jean :-*

Dave:

Please let me clarify my point which may come across as simplistic but it is just something I have noticed from my own life experience (limited to 29 years!). It is similiar to the view point "we create our own realities".

I have met people that are very paranoid, judgemental and they blame others.They perceive the worst in people and inevetably, thats what people give them. Maybe its just luck, but I have left my door unlocked several times and I have never been robbed. I am a little naive in thinking that it probably won't happen and so far it hasn't (knock on wood).I knew of a person who would "take the last shirt off of someones' back when they weren't looking" and they were constantly living in fear of being robbed. I am quite generous with my money and love and I find I receive the same in return, tenfold. I have a girlfriend who hords her money (although she has several other lovely qualities about her). She is very cheap and she wonders why she always attracts men of the same caliber. I don't have the same experience.

I have also found that when I have had difficulties with particular people, in due time, a pattern appears. I am not the only one who is having difficulties with that person and and there is some form of retribution. Somehow and someway people get the message. Even though revenge is very tempting at times, I have found people do get what they have coming to them without me having to go out of my way to try to seek  revenge( which also harms the soul/psyche/ self of person seeking retribution and it is a waste of energy in my perspective).

Another perspective I was made aware of this evening made me shift my perception yet again. It was stated as such: "How accurate are the philosophies of man-made religions? Since man-made religions are selective and preach unworthiness, the thought of reincarnation is a form of justice. In a universal sense, justice has no real meaning because there are no laws to be broken. The belief in justice resulted in a conditional life, whose changes and evolvement are strongly rejected for the purpose of maintaining the pattern of security."http://www.astraltraveler.com/reincarnation.html)

 I also agree with what Alysia and Juditha say. It all comes down to unconditional love. Forgiveness. Try to hear the message behind the actual content of what a person says. Try to walk a mile in there shoes . The story Marilyn submitted summed it up beautifully; remember who we really are and where we came from. We are all perfect and we may have stummbled across a roadblock or became misguided in our perception due to temporary amnesia. I think you are right Dave when you say we should remind so-called evil/dark souls of what they really are."Sparks of light, creatures of god." Perfection. See others' as allready being healed. Again, this all leads back to PUL!

Baby_Duck

Quote:

If satan exists like some people believe, then why doesn't God,  Jesus and God's angels come kick their buts now, so they'll stop messing with God's children? Isn't life tough enough in the physical without allowing somebody such as satan to intefere. Especially since we already have our egotistical nature to contend with.

BECAUSE we all have FREE WILL.  And IMHO Satan only exists in the minds of those who fear.

Love, Mairlyn ;-)

recoverer wrote on Sep 29^th, 2006 at 3:16pm:

If satan exists like some people believe, then why doesn't God,  Jesus and God's angels come kick their buts now, so they'll stop messing with God's children? Isn't life tough enough in the physical without allowing somebody such as satan to intefere. Especially since we already have our egotistical nature to contend with. Considering that a lot of effort is put in by light beings who help spirits find their way out of dark places and dark states of mind, it is hard to believe that God and his helpers would just sit on their hands and allow a being such as satan to continue to do what he supposedly does.

This is actually one of the questions I wrestle with alot.   Looking at the revelations that have come through Marian apparitions that have been validated with signs and miracles, as well as the information that has been gleaned from numerous exorcisms, visions (such as the stunning one of Pope Leo XIII, those of St. John Bosco) and black magic practices, I would have to suggest that the dark forces are very strong.  God is certainly more powerful, as the prime creator, but as Mairlyn said, we have Free Will and God is allowing the world to come to fulfillment.  

That being said, there are Powers and Principalities, as Paul often refers to, which are hard at work knowing that they have a finite time to wreak havoc.  Remember that these powers and principalities are angels, counterparts of those that serve God.  The devil himself was once the most powerful and greatest of all the angels, to a level that he believed he could challenge God.  This is no minor being.  I also feel that the devil goes to great lengths to mask himself and lead people to think that he does not exist.   The more he manifests openly, the more he validates the existence of God and the revelations concerning God, which would certainly drive people more fully towards a Heaven-focus.  As the original egotist, he is perfectly content to nurture a non-spiritual focus within humankind that embraces humankind's own ego and a sense of "being your own god" rather than acknowledging a Creator.  

I've always felt the Devil is closer to a cold nihilism than any frothing depiction usually portrayed.

Everyone ... your responses are greatly appreciated.

You are wonderful, warm, loving, understanding people and I have grown to love you all very much!

PUL
Caryn