as i am new here, its possible this topic has been discussed already...but i am really fascinated to know about the Sept 11 attacks and the aftermath of it....The victims, what happened to them? how are they? but especially the terrorists....they were soooo committed to their cause, enough to do what they did.....but how do they feel now? do they know what they did ??  how will they judge themselves and what are the consequences for them??

Has anyone contacted them??

Welcome to the forum. Yes, many of us did retrievals of those killed during the WTC attacks. The following is my experiences. They are also in the archives.

September 11, 2001

I wanted to get my efforts at retrievals on 9-11 down. I went to the WTC in the afternoon and found myself in almost total darkness. There was so much twisted steel, etc. that I immediately "saw it not there" which made the retrievals very, very easy. I have no idea how many people I helped as I wasn't counting, wasn't asking for names, etc., I just kept pulling arms and handing people off to Helpers who were there. I also 'saw' or 'sensed' many, many other retrievers which gave me such an overwhelming feeling of Love for Bruce, TMI and all people involved in this rescue effort. I can say that I helped at least 20 and possibly 50 or more. I knew I didn't need to go to F27 as I knew they were being taken care of.

Then I found myself with a 3-6 month old baby in my left arm and a 3-4 year old girl in my right arm. I did go to the Park and was totally surprised when the little girl's mother called to me that I had her daughter. There was a very tearful and thankful reunion,
and then I gave the baby to a Helper. Then I found myself up above the Park looking down to get an overall view and saw people streaming in from every direction, hundreds, maybe thousands and I knew this was very well organized from the 'other' side.

From there I went to my place and charged up at my crystal there, entered it and charged up more, then went back to the WTC and retrieved several more people. Then I felt the need to stop.

As far as emotions go, I was fine and did not seem to overload. It's been the past two days that the emotions are catching up with me and I've been releasing so that I can go back again and again.

September 15, 2001

Yesterday I laid down with a tape intending to retrieve more people. The phone rang 3 times but each time I was able to go back to the retrievals with no problem. I went back to the WTC and 'saw it not there' again which helped to clear out all of the obstructions.

I called out to people to go to the Light over and over. Then souls started floating to me and I again said to go to the Light. One person told me I was the Light. I looked all around and saw there were no Helpers there at the time and then realized that I was
glowing and sending out beacons of Light myself. Again this was totally different from any other retrievals I have done so I thought a moment of what to do because I realized I had to get these people to the Park/Receptions area myself and there were so many. Then I remembered Bruce's magic carpet rides with his kids, so I told everyone to jump on the magic carpet which just appeared. More and more souls came and it soon became obvious it wasn't big enough, so I thought that it has to be big enough to accommodate all who could come and as I thought that, it grew. Most people seemed to be in a daze and were just following others.

Finally, with a load of anywhere from 50 to 100 people on the magic carpet, we took off. Some souls asked where we were going and I told them to an area where they would be looked after. Then some started saying they wanted to see Jesus.

As we came over the Park I looked down and saw Jesus (or an aspect of Him) with many people surrounding Him. They looked and saw Him too and became very cmotional and happy. We landed and most went over to Him. The rest started walking with all the other souls that were walking.

I went to my place and recharged at the crystal, then entered it thinking "I sure wish Gordon were here". When I got out, there he was and I was able to recharge much more with him holding me. I went back to the WTC but had the definite feeling I was through for the time being.

My emotions stay under control while doing the retrievals but are stronger when I'm through. But with releasing by shedding some tears helps me tremendously.

September 17, 2001

I went to my place first and grew the crystal to about 8 feet tall and watched as pink and violet lights came out of it.I entered the crystal, came out and went to WTC again. This time I felt that most of the people have been retrieved but that there were still some so I
'saw it not there' and told myself to Light up, which I did, and then went looking and calling for people to come to the light. I feel I got about 10-20 and it took quite awhile. I hopped them on a smaller magic carpet and went to the Park and dropped them off. Then it was time tocome back. There was no emotion at all this time. I felt like it was a mopping up' effort on retrievals, to get the few that are left for whatever reason. I also remember flying around above the Park area again and there weren't that many people coming which sort of confirmed for me that most were retrieved. I haven't felt the 'call' to go to Pennsylvania plane crash or the Pentagon.

Later I remembered that while I was turning on the tape, my Collie was laying on the bed beside me and licking my left hand (both hands hold a crystal). I told him he could go with me and he did. I had his hair cut about 6 weeks ago as he was so tangled and
messy so it hasn't all grown out yet. When I saw him There, he had a full, beautiful Collie coat and looked absolutely regal and proud. He went to each of the people and barked at them and they followed him over. And he rode on the carpet with them with me leading the way.

My first partnered retrieval and it was with my Collie, Teddy. I've come to expect almost anything during retrievals anymore.

I posted these WTC retrievals on Bruce Moen’s Conversation Board.  Here is what he wrote:

Marilyn,

Yours is the first partnered retrieval done with a Collie, thank Teddy for me will you? I've witnessed people retrieving dogs, and dogs Helpers retrieving dogs, but never a dog retrieving people. GREAT WORK.

And the majic carpets are a marvelous technique. I hope other Retrievers try that one too.

Love you,

Bruce

Love, Mairlyn ;-)

Hi Marilyn, thanks for your warm welcome!! :D

I had a look through the archieve, but couldnt find the answer to what i really want to know with regard to the terrorists........its something thats been on my mind for a long time.....
are they confronted with what they have done? or do they continue to stay in their state of bliss ?


could someone pls answer this for me?

Hi Cuddlepie,
I did a search in my board-archive and found the following threads. They are not especially about the terrorists who attacked the WTC but in general about heavens and hells, it might be interesting to you:


Advancing spirits Mr_Satan

http://www.afterlife-knowledge.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?num=1133723468/4#4
--------------------

Suicide Bombers, Propriety  and Sanctity dave_a_mbs

http://www.afterlife-knowledge.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?num=1136953097/0
------------------------------

VISIT TO HELL     Bob McKelvy

http://www.afterlife-knowledge.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?num=1151024145/0
--------------------------

Islamic BST Petrus

http://www.afterlife-knowledge.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?num=1143179297/3#3
-------------------------

creating things in the spirit world

http://www.afterlife-knowledge.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?num=1136928391/0
----------------------------
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

The pieces I've found which I wrote regarding your question:

Hi, I too asked once about people who believe they go straight to paradise after suicide bombing. This is what I got:
Some of those, who believe this, go to their personal isolated world of thought forms. [Note: They only get what they are able to believe in and to imagine!] This is not really paradise-like. Or they go to a community of shared beliefs. It depends on the belief of every single one, or if one is willing to interact in such a community. The "virgins" which are part of some paradise-beliefs are persons who are there at free will/own beliefs or are just thought forms. And "the presence of God", another paradise-belief, turns out for those not more than a appreciated puppet where sometimes "wise" words come out. If God means not much more to them than some words in a book then they get just that.
-------------------------------
George, your question is touching the hollow-heaven-problem. So, when a suicide bomber believes strongly that he/she gets a direct ride to heaven, I say this is true. Now, many will say "What? This is unbelievable." Yeah, but the second thing is, they just get what they believe, literally, if they have no imaginations of compassion, love and understanding, they will not get it. Instead, they will get their puppet virgins and a hollow God shell until they realize that this is not what they want to so that they can move on- when they've changed their minds.
Spooky
----------------------------------
Hi Petrus,
I once want to have a look at that place, and I too saw a man on a throne there. To be exactly, for me it was a statue. It seemed to me, for some it was God or The Prophet and they worshiped him, and for others, those who felt anxious or unworthy to be face to face with the holy, they saw it as a statue but which was able to give messages from the holy with a voice sounding through it. This was the critical point for some who started doubting if they were at the right place. This statue and the messages became more and more unimportant and trivial to them who were about to go to another place.
---------------------------------

Spooky

Hi spooky! thanks for this! it is pretty interesting stuff!!

although not very conclusive......i guess what we want to read is that these terrorists get a dose of the truth and realise what they have done..On the other hand, they passionately believe we are the satans and deserve what we get....they wouldnt want to know that all the victims of attacks go straight to heaven......

I cant help but wonder though what the reason is behind the fact that the people who are muslims today, but were once christians, needed to change their religion ? why did angel Gabriel make mohammed into a prophet to create the islam....and would we have the same problems today if islam wasnt created??

Hi Cuddlepie,
I remember we had a conversation here about what people like those terrorists do experience in the moments of their dieing, when we consider the reports of near-death-experiences. You know, many report they see a life review, with every detail of their life and also the experiences of people who are affected by what the NDE'ler had done. The judge, as reported, is oneself, automatically, under the direct influence of all these experiences/emotions. That would likely be a very hard thing for a mass murderer I suppose. But possibly, when one's belief system is very strong and telling one that one had done right, maybe this honest life review is bypassed and the person goes to their belief system territory, maybe a kinda heaven.
But as I wrote, this is not a satisfying state and place to be in forever. Sooner or later one has to face what has happened before one can progress. That is an opinion I have, it's not a knowing and not set in stone.

As for your question about the beginning of religion and conversion, I just absolutely don't know.


Spooky

Cuddlepie wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2006 at 11:23am:

Hi spooky! thanks for this! it is pretty interesting stuff!! although not very conclusive......i guess what we want to read is that these terrorists get a dose of the truth and realise what they have done..On the other hand, they passionately believe we are the satans and deserve what we get....they wouldnt want to know that all the victims of attacks go straight to heaven......

What is the Truth?  Perhaps, for them, that was their prebirth agreement?  Perhaps not, but a possibility.  We are all here to learn, afterall.

As to the "victims" of the attacks going straight to heaven..maybe, maybe not.  That too, would depend on their own belief systems.  

I believe that if I were a victim of said attacks, I would not go to some "heaven", but rather a place of more reality, you know?  Even the "Christian" heaven is but a construct of the Christian minds who have crossed over.


Quote:

I cant help but wonder though what the reason is behind the fact that the people who are muslims today, but were once christians, needed to change their religion ? why did angel Gabriel make mohammed into a prophet to create the islam....and would we have the same problems today if islam wasnt created??

Perhaps not the same problems, but different ones.  There are many sects of religion.  And most of them believe they have the Ultimate Truth.
As to people leaving Christianity for some other religion, its quite common.  I found great dissatisfaction with the Christian religion..and proceeded to look into other sects/religions.
For myself, I found most of them lacking in Truth also.  Each may have a small bit..but all have been corrupted over the years by man.  I have chosen no religion at this point, and while I'm not a "true" atheist..I'm pretty close.  I do not believe there is some "skydaddy" taking care of us..WE are taking care of us..those living in this plane, and those who have crossed, so in a sense..WE are god.

Marilyn, after long thought and prayer, i would like to say to you that i do not doubt the loving work that you are doing.  In fact you overwhelm me with your giving.

My understanding is when a person's physical body dies the person's etheric body remains until this too fades away.  The etheric body is the carrier of our recent past life memories and i can see how memories may disorientate a person in the initial stages before passing over the bridge.

If in anyway it came across as if i was doubting you please do not think this (not that you or anyone has raised this with me) My initial thoughts are based upon each soul is precious and we all do choose the way we enter and the way we exit by the Grace of God.  However, i can see if a person has not given much thought to the afterlife our memories may cause confusement.

I say memories and not soul as i firmly believe that the moment of birth into the spiritual world is to quote Steiner;  (i understand im putting forward Steiner a lot here but i am hoping that everything runs parallel to Bruce's teachings)

There is nothing more beautiful in the human being's normal experience of the spiritual world than his perception of death.  This victory of the spirit over matter, this spiritual light shining up out of the darkness of matter, is the most significant and mightiest thing that can be experienced during the life which the human being passes through between death and a new birth.

This moment of passing through is very important; in order to perceive our 'I' between death and a new birth we look back at our death and say 'you are myself, you are 'I', for you really died.
It is the profound moment of death that instills our perception of our 'I' .

That's why i say it is memories that need retrieving (memories are very important to us - until we come into full light)

Well, my workings out todate and i'd appreciate any comments you might want to make.  And again Marilyn my huge respect to you and Bruce.

PUL
Caryn

Mairlyn, I'm late, read your 09/11 retrieval reports just now. Thank you for posting it again! Haven't read it before. There are things in it which must sound stange for people new to this. I love it! Have experienced similar things.
Magic Carpet? No problem. It is a means of transportation, the retriever only need to have in mind that those spirits are to be carried away from the trauma-state, this again-and-again repeating loop "I'm in trouble". But no need for something like a bus or train, more difficult to get in than to get on the carpet. For the retriever it's perfect. I guess the retrievees see the magic carpet in general as any means of transportation and rescue. Gateway would be the general term for it.
And, indeed maybe we should tell newbies in this field more often about this: That it is all perfectly organized and it's not all up to you, it's like the challenges a retriever is faced with always match and change along with what the retriever is able and willing to do right now. Like everyone has an ability that one can add in a retrieval, and the other parts are done by others. This reliance, working in a team, or maybe one can call it faith, is greatly diminishing the anxiety border to actually get involved in a retrieval.
As well this mass retrieval aspect. I remember my efforts in the Katrina/New Orleans desaster. You are a part in a system, or, the other way round, you are more than your physical existence, working in a team to get many of confused people, or to feel like you've melted with a team feeling like you're now a really big being, being the light and/or a portal in yourself.
I've seen a dog once on a mind journey, leading me to a retrievee. I think it was his dog. When he got some more clearness in mind, after getting out of a traumatic scene, he asked about the dog, to care for it, and/or to have the dog around. But had no dog helper/master such as you did have so far.

Hope most souls of 09/11 have found the right way, if not all. So Mairlyn you were one of them replacing the right, the good vibrations again for everyone who needed it. Now only how to remove the bad vibrations of remaining grief emotions, of hate, pride and revenge? Hmm, maybe we should found a collective and then imagine a big vacuum cleaner...

Thanks Mairlyn.


Caryn, I want to add to what you've said that the experience of victory over the matter is also what can occur in an experience the retriever has. I find me sometimes thinking: "Now, as bad as it may seem, finally it's just death, and death is only a transition, re-awakening to the more full picture and family". This you get when you watched many people breaking the focus to the material world and simply go elsewhere
About memories, I believe our memories are stored in an almost indestructable way- the etheric body alone seems not appropriate to do this. Maybe the etheric-remembrance-body is the symbol for our remembrance when we're still in the physical, but once we left the physical body our past life is one of many stored in our collective/higher self's data base (or in God's database, that's only a matter of levels). Of course I can only guess here! So, I can only rely on and interpret what I see. You cannot distinguish memories from souls. If you're watching memories accurately, it's the same thing like reality. That's what I perceive in retrievals. I can say there are souls, or I can say there are memories of souls, it's no way to distinguish this. But the clue would be, if there in essence would be no difference. No time. Memories are you. You are memories. And others pick up the ones that come their way for whatever reason.


Spooky

Hi Spooky

Thanks for your wholesome reply.  Yes, death is a transition however a very profound one because now everything is seen from the spiritual point of view ie very different from perceiving the spiritual from a physical point of view.  Here sensory perception in the supersensible world is reversed- meaning;

In the physical state when we look at another person the person is outside of us.  Our eyes perceive this person externally and comprehend internally this is a person with brown hair

In the supersensible state this process is reversed.  A person in the supersensible state perceives another person in the supersensible state internally, ie inside oneself, a from this internal perception this person gives the other person its form and colour.  The second person has been perceived internally and it is up to the first person to give expression of what he has perceived, through this internal dialouge he creates the image of the second person through his interpretation.

Bit of a tricky concept to grasp but when one does it falls into place.

So, we can apply this same (true) concept for a person in the physical state perceiving a person in the supersensible state.  Here the discarnate person (in the supersensible state) may only be perceived by going inside the carnate person's (physical state) blood (yes blood) and from there the carnate person projects the discarnates image from what the carnate person has interpreted the discarnate's form to be.

Maybe this phrase will add further understanding;

If the I is to perceive itself, it cannot surrender itself.
In order to be conscious of its own being it must first
use inner activity to lift its being up out of its depths.

And this is done through imaginative cognisance or cohesion.  Both in the carnate and discarnate state.  Although as said in the discarnate state it relies on a outside interpretation to give it form and or image.  Because, indeed, in the discarnate state we are living soul's with spirits that cannot be seen.

Therefore in the area of retrieval, applying this rule, it is up to the retrievar to perceive and bring up the image of the one being retrieved.

Then getting to the memory, yes memories are very important and nothing is lost or forgotten - but again once we pass into the supersensible world these memories are perceived internally from a spiritual point of view which comes with it the bigger (non-formed, to be formed) picture of reason and understanding of the events recently passed.  The subject of memories is vast and needs further in depth discussion.  However, we musn't under-estimate how powerful our etheric bodies (the carrier of memories) are.

Our etheric body or spirit rather is our life body and vital force that keeps our physical organs alive.  Not only this; it is our spiritual body of memories and also transmits of emotions - all inter-reliant.  However, without the light conscious (which comes from our sentient soul residing in our astral body - and this body or spirit needs the I for permanance) our etheric spirit would not be able to illuminate itself and would remain in sleep.

We do have many many memories and if we had to remember them all in the physical state without the spiritual presence of knowledge and understanding - we would go quite mad!

*The Divine Creation is so great it has equipped us with a memory filtering process!*

Please add any comments.

PUL
Caryn

Further to add to my first post and retrievals.  The etheric spirit will leave a remanant of its life spirit or vital force for a certain amount of time until this dissolves into the whole and as the memories are still with the life spirit it is real but not part of the whole.

So this work cannot be dismissed but i do believe it must be understood correctly.

Also, here we might be able to work out the spirits that Rob-Roy sees.

A very interesting and healthy discussion and please don't think that i presume you don't know this -we are all far more wiser than we take credit for and it takes a collective mind to work together.

Hi Caryn,

>>>A person in the supersensible state perceives another person in the supersensible state internally, ie inside oneself, a from this internal perception this person gives the other person its form and colour.<<<

I can relate to this by some experiences in meditation. Above a certain meditative state the perception changes. That is, there is no "there" outside of me, but only "here", as if many people would be just in the same spot like I am. Also, forms and colors are not real in this state, though it was like there was a sort of place in this state where I/we could either look "down" at the material world, or imaginate something; but always with the certainty that this is "unreal", the best to describe these forms within the formless would be to think of a simulation like in (newer) Star Trek's holodeck.

Spooky

Nice Spooky,

The supersensible world is accesible to incarnate spirits.  And you are on the right path to discover this.  Training of the spirit is important in visualising exercises that makes the spirit strong in order to perceive itself.  These exercises come from deep within and rely on your emotions to create a moving picture.  Although this picture / image is not where or what your spirit is, it allows your spirit to express itself through images.

I have a few exercise examples if you are interested.

:)

Yes Caryn I interpreted the lines you wrote:

>>>If the I is to perceive itself, it cannot surrender itself.
In order to be conscious of its own being it must first
use inner activity to lift its being up out of its depths. <<<

as a sort of affirmation to our existence and therefore "to make ourselves real" by self-observation which is (maybe entirely, maybe partly) a self-creation.

I did some imagination training, but I don't think I used directly my emotions to create images. If it is relatively easy to do, I'm interested, thank you.


Spooky

Quote:

Sooner or later one has to face what has happened before one can progress. That is an opinion I have, it's not a knowing and not set in stone.

To me this is a knowing. How could one progress unless they have faced everything that has happened.

Caryn: I don't think I thought you doubted me. ;-)

Spooky: I didn't plan beforehand to use the magic carpet. It just came to me when I saw there were no helpers around and I needed to get them moving. As soon as I thought of the magic carpet, it appeared and it grew as more and more people got on it.  I was standing there thinking that this is really something (one part of my mind). And it was really something when I go back over it in my mind. I was so new at retrievals but I knew I could do them.

I love the way everything happens as it's supposed to and we don't have to wonder how to appear or how to get them somewhere.

And I've never really felt like seeing where the terrorists went. I feel everyone involved had made this a life plan.

Love, Mairlyn ;-)

All my love to you Marilyn xXx
~~~

Spooky, you mentioned Myths on the other thread and Myths is the start of the non-form into form process.  Also, emotions are addressed in that there same thread; unfortunately I cannot give as much detail as I would like too but for now lets look at myths as taught by Steiner;

*
Such an exposition of the content of a myth must not be confused with a merely symbolical or allegorical interpretation. This is not intended here. The pictures comprising the content of a myth are not invented symbols for abstract truths, but real soul experiences of the initiate. He experiences the pictures with spiritual organs of perception as a normal man experiences the representations of material things with his eyes and ears.

Just as the representation is of little value by itself if it is not activated by perception of the external object, so the mythological picture is of little value without its activation through real occurrences in the spiritual world. It is only with respect to the material world that man at first stands outside the activating things; on the other hand, he can experience the mythological pictures only when he stands within the corresponding spiritual events. To be able to stand within the latter, in the opinion of the ancient mystics, he must have passed through initiation. There the spiritual events which he sees are illustrated as it were, by the mythological pictures.

Whoever is unable to take mythology as such an illustration of true spiritual events, has not yet advanced to a comprehension of mythology. For the spiritual events themselves are supersensible, and pictures whose content is reminiscent of the material world are not in themselves spiritual, but are merely an illustration of the spiritual.

Whoever lives only in pictures, lives in a dream; he lives in spiritual perception only when he has reached the point of experiencing the spiritual in the picture, just as in the material world one experiences the rose through the representation of the rose. This is also the reason why the pictures presented by myths cannot have only a single meaning. Because of their illustrative character the same myths can express various spiritual facts. It is, therefore, no contradiction
when interpreters of myths apply them now to one spiritual fact and again to a different one.

*

My love to you too Caryn ;-) xXx

Hi Caryn, thanks for Steiners take on myths. I agree myths contain a meaning which, after translation, can result in several different meanings. I don't agree with his opinion that mythologic pictures are or represent real spiritual events; this may be, but it may be not. Also, "reality" must be defined, what is meant by it, when exploring the nonphysical and/or spiritual it can get difficult to find a meaning for it which is practical of use. Myths in my book are the residues of a different perception of the world than today's predominant- let's call it the mythic worldview (not "mythologic", that would be when the mythic worldview has started to fade, so people don't live in it fully so a system of the mythos has to be written down, a "logic" of a mythos). For example, the world of ancient greek gods. I don't think only a few initiated lived in it. Steiner obviously preferred to give mythic/mythologic a narrow sense, the sense of esoteric-exclusive wisdom. Mythic worldviews differ in many points from today's western predominant, for example there seems to be a different perception of time, circular, so that when at a certain day in the year there is a feast of a god, the deed this god stands for is happening again, every year. Or the mythic space/location, a god can be in many places at the same time. And so on. A typical Christian mythic perception is for example the ritual of breaking the bread and drinking the wine, then Jesus is present, in and through the wine and bread, every time it is done, there is this different perception of space and time. Much of what here on the board is told and believed comes near mythic worldviews, so it may be our task to combine the mythic and the philosophic-physical worldview into something new- both have it's goods and bads. However, it's a different meaning of "mythos" than Steiner gave to it.

Spooky

Greetings,
This discussion is really interesting!
I took the liberty of taking this last part on myth and moving it
to AK under a myth-related title, not because I had authority.
Hope that is OK.
bets