I just started exploring this site yesterday. Actually, I am in somewhat of a deperate mode, having been married for 22 years and my spouse is telling me she is unhappy and finds happiness and emotional connection with another man. In my complete and total devastation, I google searced "life after death", you can probably know why. In going through this site, I learned about "pre-birth contracts". Is it possible that the reason for these developments is that my wife had a pre-birth contract with this other man to find him in her life, now they have found each other and they are fulfilling some pre-birth contract? When I met my wife 22 years ago, the minute I saw her I felt as if I was floating, that there was no one around us and that we were reunited from a place a long time ago. I always thought in my heart that we knew each other before we were born. Now, I'm beginning to wonder if her emotional connection to this other person is the result of a pre-birth contract between her and this other person. If it can be, then it might make things easier to swallow. After all, who would I be to interfere with a pre-birth contract. I imagine that those contracts are very difficult to breach (sorry for the lawyer like langauge, but that is what I do for a living).

Thank you for your thoughts.

Hi Runner I have had enough knowledge of the afterlife to know this,that we do choose our life and destiny before we are born,so our spirit can learn different emotions on the earth plain as well as different experiences. It is truly hard sometimes to walk on our path of life as life is never easy.

Love and God bless Juditha

Hi Runner,

I try to look at things that way, that they were planned to happen for our learning purposes.  Especially when things are hard I try to remind myself of this.  It's hard to be in your situation and tell yourself that you had this agreement as well.  That doesn't mean to me that we shouldn't fight for what we want...I'm pretty stubborn so I always put up a good try but then if I can't have it I realize it just wasn't meant to be that way.  I think that's the hardest thing of all..understanding that since we can't see the whole picture, we don't know what's meant to be for what reason.  

I think that we do make certain "contracts" with other spirits/souls before incarnating to this lifetime. I have been through a divorce, and it took me a long time to understand that, even though I had been hurt, I also left something with my X spouse for his growth.  He chose to go to another woman :'( and leave me and our two sons.  It was difficult for me to accept, but I was the one to "let go" and let "God"-- so to speak. But, believe me-- I hated God for what I went through during that period and I did a lot of self examination and meditation regarding why I had to expierence such devastation.  I understand that my X had something to learn from me and visa-versa.  I have remarried and been with the current spouse for 28 years.  So, yes--- we do choose a contract or agreement with another soul before "being born".  Remember-- it's isn't just what we are learning that is important, but also what we will leave behind for our survivors to learn by.  

Hi Runner2659,
I agree with what the above posters wrote. I had some meditations where I tried to find out something about past lives of mine. It seems that finding partners and divorces are something which has happened often to "me" (at least I saw persons I felt they once were me), and that this played a big role in an evolving process; these partner stories were loaded with a tremendous amount of emotion, and maybe that's the reason why this was chosen to go through- for learning, but unfortunately maybe there might also be a portion of karma and/or addiction in it, due to the strong emotions. However, what seems important is to recognize these emotions but not let them take you over uncontrolled; finally, from what I've seen, it should be handled in a way which is NOT blocking trust, friendship and love to other people. That is I think the greatest danger within partnership divorces/crisis, that one turns away from people, and away from looking at the world in a serene manner, becoming a desparate loner. On the opposite, when gone through such a crisis, and keeping or regained a friendly-serene view on the world, then suddenly you see what's really important. I mean partnership of course is important, but after gone through problems with it there is a chance to see what's behind, and this truely enables one to reach a new level of partnership and living in general in the future.

Spooky

What do you think of this idea...

What if we had the chance to know what our complete spiritual connection is with just one person in our lives...Would you want to know everything?  Would you be able to handle all the emotion that comes with that knowledge?  And which person would you choose?

Runner,

All I can say is that you are finding wisdom very quickly in this situation.  No matter how difficult this is for you I can promise that you will find your way to the other side of it.  I recently divorced after 15 years with a very loving partner...and I was the one who left.  However, in bygone times I have also been the one left behind.  No one is ever left behind, in truth.  It is all a full circle and all will be revealed to you.

Real love cannot be destroyed, so know that.  It is sometimes transformed, and this is a mystery which can show us who we really are.

Yes, I believe people are brought into our lives at various times for reasons which are profound.  I left my marriage to find the other half of myself, a missing part of me which is necessary for my growth.  I do not regret it, but this road is often challenging.  I needed this challenge very very much.  And so did my ex.  We will be more complete because of it.  

Yes, I do feel that some life experiences are meant to be.  The good, the bad, and the ugly...but love never dies.  True love is eternal.  Know that you will survive this and there will be a great gift in this for you which is irreplaceable.

much love, blink

Hello everyone......!

I was just wondering what kind of karmic retribution might be involved in the following situation: Lets say two souls had a pre-birth agreement to meet up together in the earthplain and form a relationship. Say the relationship was suppossed to last X amount of time; however, due to free will, one party decided to "take off" earlier then planned and decides to head home. The one soul was supposed to stick around but due to the pressures of living on the earthplain, the soul decides to either consciously or unconsciously commit  suicide or an accidental suicide. Would this soul eventually re-unite with the other soul to finish where they left off? Might there be some karmic debt of some sort owed to the other soul who remained behind due to "breach of contract"?

Thanks!

I think it might help to view relationships a little differently. I'll use parent and child as an example. When we are children, our parents are very much in parental mode. It's a very unequal relationship, but hopefully a loving one. As the children become adults the relationship changes to something more like friendship than anything else. Later on, perhaps a parent ages to the point of incompetence, the child becomes the parent, a role reversal. So here we see three very different modalities but the same love connection throughout.

I see something similiar with spouses, depending on how the relationship is handled. If the love connection is kept in full awareness, then we see the relationship beginning, at least from physical perspective, at meeting. Perhaps a period, maybe long, of friendship, then lovers, then spouses, then after divorce, friends again. Same relationship or love connection, different modalities of manifestation.

If we realize early on that roughly half of marraiges end in divorce, with a significant percentage of the others being unhappy for a variety of reasons, then we see that the idea of getting married and living happily ever-after is, for the majority, an unrealistic expectation, perhaps a myth. If we were to approach a marraige more realistically, we might say something like this: "I'm going to love this person as fully as I can for as long as this lasts. When it changes, I will continue to love this person as fully as I can, but in a different way. I realize this marraige may not last a lifetime, but my relationship with this person will. By taking these vows I am committing to this person, and my committment to this person is greater than my committment to the institution of marriage. It's the love connection that counts, and I am committing to that, whatever form it takes."

Having knowledge of past life relationships with your spouse makes this even more realistic, I think.

Love,
Rob

Hi Runner and everyone else!
I am new here, but find this subject very interesting!! :)

I dont really think we are meant to dwell on whether or not we have a pre-birth contract and with whom.....just live your life, deal with the pain and stay strong, learn from everything life gives you......

In some instances the whole purpose for two people being married is to take the step to divorce as it takes courage to choose you and not the "safety" of an unhappy marriage......Its all about taking the plunge, anything after that is easy but to find the courage to jump, that is often a life lesson......bungee jumping or parachute jumping...what is the scary part of that? its the decision to jump....once the jumpers are in free air, they freak out, are happy, want to go again once on the ground......but everyone is full of nerves, contemplating if its a good idea to jump......

I would like to thank all of you for your kind words and thoughts.

It's very difficult to go through, I don't know where all this is going to land. From a lawyer's perspective, how can there be pre-birth conflicting contracts? Perhaps my role here is to learn about the legal system and in my next life establish the groundrules and framework so that multiple pre-birth contracts do not conflict, thereby facilitating more harmony on the earth plain.  :) I'd volunteer for that role in the afterlife, based upon my earth experience. If anyone can sign me up now for that, sign me up. I'll be there when it's my time.  ;)

Thank you all again.

hi Runner  what a good thread. you show us something very basic about humanity. this need we have to be monogamous in affairs of the heart. 22 years...in a way I wish I'd had that long of a time with the man who fathered my children. I only had 3 years until we divorced, and then only 12 years total before he died. I actually visualized us porch sitting in old age, completely contented and falling deeper in love. it just didn't happen. I think we made a contract he would make an appearance, supply dna for the twins and go back home where he was more comfortable.
ah, to have full memory of pre-life contracts..would we benefit from that? they don't go far when they die, even the relationship continues in divorce. this man had to drop in and clear up his karma with me by telling me to "pull myself together" lol!!  thats all I needed to do what he asked...I did pull myself together but only because I thought I could help him if I did to not have to worry after me.
now, he is like a big brotherly vibration..not romantic, but definetely like a member of a group soul situation of different roles in different lives.
I think grief works the soul to struggle up from it. you think, wow, I never thought I'd get over it and be happy again, but we discover our spouses never stopped loving us, even if they reach for another to love or leave you to raise your rascals all alone by dying, they still know you can go on, and they never stop loving you, all relationships remain in our hearts forever and all will be known sooner or later, the answer to our questions. never stop loving. :'( :)

I don't believe in marriage anymore. I used to but just can't with all the divorces. In earlier times, marriage meant something, like with my parents and parents of my peers. Then the sexual revolution came along and everyone is sleeping with everyone and there are no moral values. As a friend once told me 'love the one you're with.'

Love, Mairlyn ;-)

HI Runner - Aside from agreement with Rob and Baby-Duck, I'll offer two views from my own experience. First, personally, I was married fiove times. This last time was to a woman whom I dated while a selfish juvenile. When I had grown up into a responsible adult she returned, and after 20 years of living together (Hi Marilyn) she allowed me to use the "M-word", and announced that she would be "my LAST wife".  And it has been OK since then  I'm now a 2-times great grandparent, 16 grandkids, 5 kids and a lot of joy.

I also do past life work, which bears on your "contract" question. A woman came in who had a despicable boy friend - abusive and cruel in all the usual ways. It seems that about 300 years back they had fallen in lust, married, and he promptly died of smallpox or something like it. She was devastated and wanted desperately to have him back, and in this life, she got her wish. That's how contracts are made. Until she gets the message that this is not a necessary part of her life, she will continue to keep him. Thus far she's lost access to her kids, and is in considerable danger of being beaten to death. And that's how many contracts are ended. Interestingly, her lifestyle in this incarnation has been on the same level as that of her abusive boy friend.

In your life, you have had a good marriage up to the present, and now it seems that your spouse has found an alternative. It is not your fault, nor is it hers, that your emotional situation has led you to this moment. You are both doing your best to cope with a difficult and confusing world. Her choice is probably non-optimal, and it certainly will be painful for both of you - it always hurts to break up, regardless of the reasons. Your choices have been inclined toward constancy, which is probably a better idea.

The usual result of a divorce is determined wholly by your response to the situation. If you are truly loving, the next step is either to seek pair-wise counseling (if she agrees) or to seek a fast and minimally painful separation if that's what she wants. Her lawyers will ask for everything, yours will agree to somewhat less, and should she marry again, you'll be off the hook. On the other hand, what man wants an unfaithful woman? She is not doing herself any favors. And that creates a new contract for the future. If your part is limited to loving and assisting, ou can avoid becoming part of it. If you blame, rage and hate, you'll get a chance to do it all over again (Ugh!) as the contractural connection plays out. When in doubt, love is about all that works.

I'm truly sorry about your situation, and I recognize that it presents an opportunity to express love under the hardest conditions. If you want more information, I suggest that you find someone to help with past life regression. IARRT.org is one place to look, IHF.com is another. Meanwhile, it is a true statement that "everything happens for a reason", and "when one door closes, another opens".

PUL
dave

Hi Dave,

I'm happy to hear that your LAST MARRIAGE has lasted. I'm not looking for anyone and really don't want anyone. I was only married once and that was enough for me. So you've got 2 great grandchildren too.  They're great aren't they?

Love, Mairlyn ;-)

Rob-Roy that is a amazing post you made - it has helped me feel calm about things.
Every couple should read it before getting married, during marriage and after marriage!

Thanks.

baby_duck wrote on Sep 20^th, 2006 at 4:11am:

Hello everyone......! I was just wondering what kind of karmic retribution might be involved in the following situation: Lets say two souls had a pre-birth agreement to meet up together in the earthplain and form a relationship. Say the relationship was suppossed to last X amount of time; however, due to free will, one party decided to "take off" earlier then planned and decides to head home. The one soul was supposed to stick around but due to the pressures of living on the earthplain, the soul decides to either consciously or unconsciously commit  suicide or an accidental suicide. Would this soul eventually re-unite with the other soul to finish where they left off? Might there be some karmic debt of some sort owed to the other soul who remained behind due to "breach of contract"? Thanks!

Hi Baby duck, i am a bit confused about your question, especially the karmic debt to the other soul who remaind behind due to "breach of contract"...as far as i understand, one commits suicide and the other stays here on earth??

Committing suicide is a very serious thing, as we all know. He/she will have to come to terms with what he/she has done....in the "suicide plane"....The other soul stays behind on earth to live life and life lessons until its time to move on......they will not meet on the other side, at least not for a long while, as they are on different dimensions....A pre-birth agreement is no guarantee to meet again...Its a promise to help....The suicider will have a whole new packet of lessons to get through......nothing to do with the soul who stayed behind.....This soul may choose to help, out of love....

Hi Marilyn-
Some of us learn fast, others are gluttons for punishment. I seem to be very lucky at the moment, despite the ebbs and flows of reality, and I recognize the great debt to those who helped me gow up to get here. I forget who it was who was remarking on spelling etc in English  - "One is mouse, two is mice. One is spouse, and two is spice."

love
dave

I asked my ex husband if he knew he was committing suicide by drinking and he said he knew what he was doing. :-/  you can see the writing on the wall when one flat out walks into death with their eyes wide open like that. he still made karma with me. although he didn't owe me an explanation for leaving me. we weren't the type of people to rag on each other to get the other to change. besides we were divorced. which is only a piece of paper because its still a relationship, papers on it or not. we have to think about karma differently, just as we have to think about reincarnation differently.these are only partial truths. our understanding is very limited here is why we need to explore for ourselves and take no one's word for anything whats going on. Bruce's books offer techniques to explore whats on the other side. confidentially, the techniques work.

back to hubby and karma. he was with a guide when he slipped into my dreams; the guides I would become familiar with. they know so much more about relationships and karma than either Mike or I put together. the guide stayed in the corner, but I had a feeling if not for the guide, Mike would have never thought about what I was going through; my feelings I had failed him somehow to get him away from drink and maybe there was something wrong with me that he couldn't imagine toughing it out with me because I was such pleasant to be around, wasn't I? maybe he didn't love me was the question, or didn't love me and the kids enough to stay with us. the mind comes up with so many questions when we try to understand death. if he didn't love me enough to stay then I felt guilty. I learned since then that we are all like this. we all feel guilty when someone checks out even if its the wrong thing to feel guilty over. I had a series of meetings with Mike after he passed, each one getting better and better in the PUL dept. I know guides just stepped in and helped him after his death, maybe they were past affiliations with him but it seems on the other side folks are more helpful to each other. even my grandmother turned into a guide on the other side, making my mother feel better about herself and carry on. as soon as Mike realized or became aware I was carrying a load of grief over this which would boil up in my throat chakra and choke me from time to time, he came to try and get this energy of grief dissipated from my aura so I could carry on. I suppose he realized then that he was the reason I suffered and that could be construed as karmic ties. he was successful in his endeavor but it took awhile and a few meetings before I got over that choked up feeling and the guilt by examining my belief systems very hard. all my beliefs were wrong. why would someone come to you and try to take your grief away unless they loved you? :)

it all boils down to what u believe about yourself since childhood and that carries over into adulthood and even beyond. people even take their fallicious belief systems with them into the afterlife and thats why we have retrievers that go into the BST's.

as for the suicide...sure, it was suicide with the bottle. its just that a shotgun is faster. he had gone into a coma for several weeks, bounced back and took up the bottle again so he knew. this didn't bother him on the other side in the least to have done it this way. in one visit guides, 2 male guides gave him a soul project; a way to expand himself. they visited him frequently. alway lending their enthusiasm to this project. they were going to put him into acting. yes, they even put on plays on the other side to my amazement. I was heartened that he wasn't alone, he was going to make friends. this acting project was perfect for an introverted person to flower themselves. and the play they had planned? high philosophy with humor. I wanted to be with him as I like acting too! but I knew I had to live my own life. we just didn't worry about each other anymore, thats how the relationship changed. everytime I look in my twins eyes I see Mike. he gave us those eyes..and they were magnificently beautiful eyes. the relationship never ends it just gets better. love, alysia

Cuddlepie wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2006 at 11:11am:

Committing suicide is a very serious thing, as we all know. He/she will have to come to terms with what he/she has done....in the "suicide plane"....The other soul stays behind on earth to live life and life lessons until its time to move on......they will not meet on the other side, at least not for a long while, as they are on different dimensions....A pre-birth agreement is no guarantee to meet again...Its a promise to help....The suicider will have a whole new packet of lessons to get through......nothing to do with the soul who stayed behind.....This soul may choose to help, out of love....

Cuddlepie..I've never heard of "suicide plane"..other than in the movie "What Dreams May Come".

Suicide, while  serious on the earthplane side, is not quite so serious in the afterlife.  From my own explorations and studies, unless one is say Catholic who believes suicide is a mortal sin, then most do not go anywhere different than others who cross over..that is, based on what beliefs they held in this life, IMO.

I know this is unbelievable to anyone but myself and maybe Shirley and a few others here but my husband when I found him was living in the style of his belief system, his preference for architectural style of abode and this did throw me for a loop, as I was lucid and aware I had finally found him out there. we don't die, we change frequency of vibrational form. he was the same guy with the same behaviors that had made me love him in life. I didn't expect to find him to be the same person. but I did notice some growth aspects were on the agenda so change must be a constant.

I think divorce is as prevalent as it is because of dualistic thinking.  The grass is always greener when you covet your neighbors or those around you.  The search for a perfect soulmate implies that there are many imperfect ones.  It is a juvenile thought process.  Instead of maturing and evolving with one person, you meet a beatufiul stranger at work or by chance.  Suddenly there is passion again.  The person then concentrates on the faults of their spouse while the new one in their life brings them transitory joy.  In reality, the grass is not usually greener - it is just a quick thrill.  We all want to be in those initial stages of love and lust though they are not meant to last forever.  

Real love and maturity take into account your initial courtship and subsequent earthly lives.  All that you share, all the intimacy and joys of children become so entwined that a mature spirit sees his or her glass as being half full instead of half empty.  I believe this is the key to a successful marriage.  In the end the illusion of separateness of people and spirit is just that.  In order to spiritually mature, we have to be able to not just let go of our bodies, but of our dualistic thinking about each other and the universe when we pass on.

Attachment either to people or things is hard to overcome.  We can still love without the ego attachment.  This, imho is true love.


M

augoeideian,

Thanks. I appreciate your feedback. I'm glad to know I'm helped someone.

Love,
Rob

Matthew,

Thanks for your very penetrating insight. I wonder, do you think that one reason people start looking elsewhere is because their agreements are finished and they lack the awareness to handle this the right way?

Love,
Rob

Rob,

I don't think agreements are that binding about specifics.  I think most of the divorces are the result of being spiritually immature, and the desire for love misplaced.  So its not love as PUL, but love as lust and ego driven love.  I guess I don't feel that any pre-life agreement would require you to be married for 7 years and then move on.  The divorces come from our wrong thinking and actions.



M

Matthew,

I beg to differ. I just went through a divorce. My guides say that was it. We did what we were together to do, as planned. I also have another soul contract with another woman, verified by my guides and Jeff's guide Sumain, also made before incarnating. So I don't think divorce is always the result of spiritual immaturity. I think that's true for some, but not for others. I think the spiritual immaturity is manifested in the way the divorce is handled. I think you're being a bit dogmatic on this. We don't have to learn all our lessons from just one person.

Love,
Rob

Sorry, Rob,

I was speaking in generalities.  Any given person will have their unique situation.  Its always been my belief that the various reasons for divorce (boredom, midlife crises, the need to be lusted after or to lust after, coveting/grass is always greener, falling out of love, competition) for the majority of people stem from the game of life, dualism and not from the spirit.  Your case is obviously different.  I don't believe we can plan that much before life and then wipe our memories, dive into the physical world and still go through with complex pre life planning.  It would interfere too much with free will.  I believe in some general agreements and outlines or general  plans, but then when the real world scenario ensues and various living energies interact, there are unpredictable results.  

If you have personal guidance on your situation, I respect that and believe it to be true in your case.  

Matthew