Just where is the spirit world.some say its out somewhere out in space.Others say its very near earth,While others say its conected to our all around the earth.But does anyone exactly where it is.Is heaven in the spirit world that we go after we die?George

A lot of religious texts say that the kingdom of Heaven is within... This could in fact be an internal dimension that exists immediately upon passing from the physical. For instance, when one passes they usually experience the 3-D blackness, after which they travel at great speeds towards the Light. However, some also find themselves immediately flying over vast expanses of beautiful fields/gardens/etc... Experiences of guardians/angels/helpers/relatives/friends are usually immediate as well to help with the transition. This tells me that it is in another dimension/vibrational wavelength that is, quite literally, just a breath away from the one that we currently find ourselves in. One has to keep in mind the notion of multidimensional strings when contemplating spiritual realities as well. For these harmonic strings are in fact the fabric of everything; the fabric of all dimensions. To consider/contemplate this notion is one thing; but, to truly understand the mechanics of this notion, in my mind, requires the interpretation from the spiritual body in and of itself. The physical human brain... at least from my perspective, cannot "unfilteringly" fathom the true expansive breadth of what there is to be fathomed with regards to the underpinnings of multidimensionality in its true form. Even those whom have experienced the inner workings of multidemsionality have an almost impossible time trying to put their spiritual experience into human words/tangible thought forms.

(The kingdom of Heaven is within)
(Always has been, always will be, never wasn't),

PUL,
Cosmic_Ambitions

From what I understand:

www.jonasridgeway.com
www.spiritual.com.au/articles/astral/astralp2_rbruce.htm#9
http://home.iprimus.com.au/terencem/thisisabbisquestionpage.htm

We go to the spirit world every night during sleep, the only difference is we aren't aware during it (dreaming). Is the spirit world out their "above the clouds"? No. The spirit world right here amongst us, on earth and in dimensions that free the subconscious mind from it's normal physical restraints.

Robert Bruce on the second website I showed talks about the astral dimension. The astral dimension does exist - I've seen it before during astral projection. I haven't, however, seen the mental plane, the buddic plane, etc. But they do exist. They must.

Hi George After my father died, i went to see this medium and my father came through,and he said he could see our planet earth, from where he was,he said he was in the most beautiful place,and he was with his mother and father who passed before him.So i do think the spirit world is out there in the universe somewhere,i would love it if it was ,to actually see space and the planets would be fantastic.Love and god bless you juditha

George, the spirit world is all around us. ;-)

Love, Mairlyn

Hi George-
There are two kinds of answer to your question. The easy answer is that the spirit world is where we look when we see spirits. This world seems to be in a dimensional system that is more complex than our everyday experiences, and it seems to be structured differently, in the sense that we can more or less wish things into being. At the same time, there seem to be no barriers.

The more difficult answer is the one in which we actually try to express the topology of the spirit world - a topic dear to me. That goes off into speculative philosophy. There seems to be a consensus of opinion that everything evolved out of nothing, and in our universe, that this happened about 15 billion years ago. This is supported by observation of the Hubble expansion of the universe. But things are a bit more complex than that. The causal factors by which this specific universe was created seem to be "eternal", in the sense of having neither beginning nor end. This is an oscillation that gives off universes much like a fire gives off sparks, but each universe is individual and separated.

Outside of the universe is "voidness", a non-place that has no size, no shape, no color, no taste etc. Because it has no qualities except that we point to it, it covers our universe like an infinitesimally thin layer. And, because voidness has no dimension, it also appears to be a minuscule point, so small that it has no interior, so that we surround voidness by our universe. (In physics, the voidness begins with the Planck dimension, and goes smaller.) The universe is like a bubble that expands inward, an inside out sphere. For example, if you look off into space in any direction for about 15 billion light years, you are looking backwards into time and space toward the center, while the place we call "outer space" is the innermost portion, in which the universe is expanding inwards at right angles to everything else. Thus, we are on the "outer edge" of our universe, and the surrounding event horizon 15 billion light years distant is the center.

Because the universe began from a single point, an instant in which everything was one thing, the initial instant of the universe was an expression of what St Thomas Aquinas called the "Uncaused Cause". This Uncaused Cause emanated itself by twisting space, since that is the both action of the repetitive cyclic origination, and the reason that it is a repetitive cycle. This is either like the snake that eats its tail, Ourobouros, or like a multidimensional Moebius strip, or Klein bottle, depending on how you look at it. The present day world is the way the Uncaused Cause looks today. Because it has had time to interact with itself in many ways, the Uncaused Cause is now plural, fragments having been spun off in the guise of bugs, people, fireplugs and trees etc. At the same time, because the Uncaused Cause was initially One, it remains forever One. Meditators sometimes call it the "Mind of God" or the "Cosmic Consciousnes". The state of the "Self", that part of you that identifies with your viewpoint and feelings, is part of both the One and also the Many. When you are not being the Many, you get to be the One, which means that you revert back toward total Oneness, merger into the Uncaused Cause, which is often described as "returning to God", but only to the degree that your attitude (meaning karma and attachments etc) allows. Then, when the world gets rearranged so that you can be part of the Many, you emerge as a Self, separated from other Selves.

In this sense, the spirit world is the transitional space that lies between you and God, and is bounded by your personal awareness at one end, and by the Oneness of God at the other end. It is a sense, an awareness, an experience, but not a true location or place in the sense of having length, breadth, height or location in spacetime. We experience it jointly because we are all one, just as your Significant Other is one with you, so that when you want to phone your SO you occasionally find that your SO is already phoning you. Because the spirit world is in the space of experiences, rather than the space of bricks and boards, it is proper to say that it is everywhere. Yet when we go to look for it, and as we pass through the various levels of definition that define the logic of inner experiences, we can find nothing. All we find is God.

dave

I believe that the difference between the spirit World and the physical World is that the physical World vibrates slower.  It's more about vibrational rate and where your attention is placed, than physical location. In truth we're always located in the spirit World and physical World at the same time, even if we aren't aware of it.

Consider kundalini movement. When it moves within you you can really feel it.  However, it "doesn't" push physical tissue out of the way. Rather, it moves right through physical tissue because it is more subtle. When it is activated you can feel things such as sound waves move through you.

On the other hand, thought based energy such as emotional attachments are subtle enough to stop kundalini movement, and you can definitely feel when kundalini gets stopped by thought energy.

The reason kundalini is more subtle is because it represents a higher vibrational rate than the physical World.

Years ago I had this experience where I knew without a shadow of doubt that there is no such thing as a particular physical location, and no such thing as a particular moment of time. Such things are nothing but concepts.

Dave,

Your starting point is the perspective of physical reality. I'm not sure that's the best place to start.

Love,
Rob

Where is the spirit world?  Hmmmm....where is your thought?  Find your thoughts and you will find the location of this realm.  We assume we are in the "real world," based on shared perceptions of our senses in this physical plane.  Yet our thoughts are literally our consciousness which shifts out of our body.  When someone dies, we so far can not measure a physical leaving of the soul or spirit in any way shape or form, despite what the ghostbusters say.  

If thought is not limited to physical reality, then we follow our thoughts (wherever you go, there you are) to end up in a plane of existence of thought and energy.  A misconception then is that this plane of existence has to have a physical location.  Thought or essence is not bound in this way.  

Matthew

I thought about this some more, and need to update my post.

When I had the experience of understanding that there is no such thing as a particular location or a particular moment of time, I also clearly understood that I'm not a body based person and that this physical World isn't what I had been imagining it to be. Therefore, I wasn't seeing things from the perspective of physical reality.

From a relative point of view you can speak of things being spatially located in certain places as they relate to other things. This relatavism, however, doesn't effect the ultimate truth of how there is no such thing as particular location or a particular moment of time, for ultimately there is no such thing as linear space and time.

It may be that spirit realms that relate to the human race, are located in the space that surrounds the planet earth. Races from other planets might have there own spirit realms. You wouldn't find these locations if you traveled in a spaceship, because they vibrate at a level that is too fast for the physical eye.

Mellen-Thomas Benedict had a near death experience that discusses how things such as higher self matrixes surround the planet earth. He also speaks of belief system territories. What he found has a lot of similarities to what Robert Monroe and Bruce Moen found. I've attached a link to this experience below.

I've also attached Carl Jung's NDE. He saw the planet earth from space before human space travel had taken place, and a lot of what he described matches what space travel later found.

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/reincarnation04.html

http://www.near-death.com/jung.html


recoverer wrote on Jul 28^th, 2006 at 2:38pm:

I believe that the difference between the spirit World and the physical World is that the physical World vibrates slower.  It's more about vibrational rate and where your attention is placed, than physical location. In truth we're always located in the spirit World and physical World at the same time, even if we aren't aware of it. Consider kundalini movement. When it moves within you you can really feel it.  However, it "doesn't" push physical tissue out of the way. Rather, it moves right through physical tissue because it is more subtle. When it is activated you can feel things such as sound waves move through you. On the other hand, thought based energy such as emotional attachments are subtle enough to stop kundalini movement, and you can definitely feel when kundalini gets stopped by thought energy. The reason kundalini is more subtle is because it represents a higher vibrational rate than the physical World. Years ago I had this experience where I knew without a shadow of doubt that there is no such thing as a particular physical location, and no such thing as a particular moment of time. Such things are nothing but concepts.

With regards to what recoverer wrote about our physical reality vibrating slower... Along these same meridian type lines I've gathered from numerous sources that our physical reality is analogously and quite literally akin to "frozen light".

PUL,
Cosmic_Ambitions

Hi Rob-
Point well made. Spiritual reality and everyday physical science seem to be at odds. That's because everyday experiences are objective, shared phenomena, while spiritual matters tend to be subjective and highly personal. A decent answer to "where" should be able to deal with both aspects of experience. It's like the difference between, "I know how to swim," as opposed to, "I can tell you how to swim."

The most persuasive set of data in life is our experiences that arise from the world of physical existence. Most of the respondents here have cited "vibrations" (which is a term very difficult to define precisely) and "multiple dimensions" or "strings" (also very difficult to define). These responses are all valid in some way, but their language tends to be poetic, an effort to express subjective phenomena, rather than logical and grounded in objective phenomena. A subjective response is thus rather like saying, "Well, you know ..." when the fact is that the questioner does NOT know, which is why there is a question.

You personally go into the spiritual world of events by meditation. Aside from advising people to practice meditation, there is no way to talk about that experience meaningfully. It's just your personal solipcistic "dreamworld" until you can find a basis to share your outlook with others.

Because we cannot directly teleparthize ideas to others, we're stuck with the problem of locating common ground. I began with the logic by which the causal factors related to our existence are limited in their physical expression, because there are no limitations in Spirit. The restrictions on this causal logic are that it must fit physical science. By this I mean actual experimental physics, not fringes nor speculative ideas. Second, the concepts and direction of development must be both sufficient, and also necessary according to at least one logical path of reasoning.

This leads to long convoluted explanations, but I am willing to be that it is at least as good as a poetic explanation. However, it might not be much better, since it could imply that reality is material, which is another can of worms waiting to be opened. So, Rob, having explained my admittedly imperfect response, how would you handle this kind of question?
dave

recover,

Thanks for the website that Jung told of his NDE.  As I read it I started to greive and am now printing it out.  It triggered memory of my recent experice of NDE while in a coma and meeting with my soul group.  Because the coma was mophine induced, I worry that details of my being with them might be lost due to state specific memory which is why I grasp onto anything that will help me recall what happened before I started to leave this soul group gathering.

Thanks again, Jean

Thanks for the great thread and physics information.  Dave has a firm grasp on this and im wrapping my brain around the concept.  It is interesting that you say we add poetry to our existence - i believe this poetry is an essential part of the physics. Not because it makes us live in a 'make believe' world although ones poem may be different to anothers - but this poetry is real and it is this poetry that grows and nourishes our souls.  Is this God's gift to us?

It goes back to the saying - we create our own reality physically and spiritually - and without poetry the universe may seem to be a dull, calculated place.  This poetry, i believe, is real and it seems to be a collective conscious poem with variant proses and rhythms that steams from a creative source.

i enjoy the Orphic writings that takes us to, maybe the place Dave is talking about 15 billion light years away.  Here is a link to Orphic writings- poetry in its essence?

http://myweb.cableone.net/subru/Orphic.html

On a more immediate level - i've learnt that a spirit world exists in the Astral realm which is all around us on the physical plane and life here is very similiar to our lives in Earth.  This is inhabited by spirits who have not given much thought to the afterlife and things and it is a extension of school.  Going beyond this i believe the planets are stations and the spirit life that extends far out from the planets is richly filled with spiritual worlds.  Here we get back to thoughts, our thoughts attain the spiritual level right for us and we share our level with like minded spirits; it is here the poetry helps us to conceive or perceive these worlds. Although here now in Earth we are only a part of our total selves and perceive a very small part of the whole.  

Beyond our universe .. is up to us to get there i think - although as you said Dave, our universe is  expanding (like a bun in a oven getting bigger and spreading out) do we and all creation in our universe make our universe expand with our thoughts?

Your welcome Jean:

I'd love to read about your NDE, if it is something you want to share. Especially the part where you met with your soul group.

Does this experience remind you of it at all?

http://www.nderf.org/richard_l's_nde.htm

or try the below link (The above link doesn't work when you click on it).

On the list, it is the experience called "Richard L's NDE 2140."

http://www.nderf.org/site_index.htm


jkeyes wrote on Jul 30^th, 2006 at 7:25pm:

recover, Thanks for the website that Jung told of his NDE.  As I read it I started to greive and am now printing it out.  It triggered memory of my recent experice of NDE while in a coma and meeting with my soul group.  Because the coma was mophine induced, I worry that details of my being with them might be lost due to state specific memory which is why I grasp onto anything that will help me recall what happened before I started to leave this soul group gathering. Thanks again, Jean

there is no 'where' because there is no distance and no time.  all universes and dimensions are constantly being created.  you move everything around you by tuning to the station you want.  its in you anytime you think it.  its all made of the same meat.  but dont take my word for it, i cant imagine that i know what im talking about.  its not even possible for me to know.  i just use it as i can.  information makes it a little easier for me to travel, but im generally a bull in a china shop.

dave's universe talk is making my brain efforvesce.  i LOVE physics.

Actually, folks, IMHO the world, all its furniture, critters and stuff, plus the spirit world and  everything we do in the material world is all in the mind anyhow. It seems to be a collection of rules that look like they're made of real matter, but when we look closer, most of what we discover is emptiness, The rest is a set of rules, patterns, relationships and associations that look like you and me, the corner lamp post and trees in the yard. At one end of the line is the God-Thing, sort of spewing us forth as instances of creation, and then scooping us back up again as our bodies fall off and we abandon the illusion (maya) of material reality so that we can rediscover the truth of spiritual reality. At the other end of the line of causes is the collection of contingent ideas, opinions, attitudes, and all the rest of the stuff that makes each of us imagine being a distinct, isolated, discrete individual. In other words, IMHO the world is just an excuse for the God-Thing to talk to Itself.
Blessed be!
Dave

[quote author=dave_a_mbs = "IMHO the world is just an excuse for the God-Thing to talk to Itself.
Blessed be!"
Dave

[/quote]

Yeah, a way to organise Her thoughts! (Did I just think that? Nawwww... that was just something passing thru)

Yeah, Tim, that's what She told me when I left for work today.
Ha!
D'ya ever get the feeling that life is too short to take it seriously?

Well dave, the "short" part the earth just reminded me of ( there was a quake just a little while ago... you and I share those earthly reminders of how short our time could be, living where we do..)

And yeah! Being lighthearted doesn't mean you're not paying attention!

Life IS too short to be grim about it.

My choice is to GRIN about it.

( With my attention  on ALL of it)

Best to you bro'

              Tim F.

I agree with you Dave and Tim... Physical life is way too short to take too seriously. Granted it does require a certain amount of mindful/spiritual attention. Beings anyone of us could depart upon our transitional spiritual phase at any given moment, the following moto applies well: "Grin... laugh... learn... smile and forgive; take everything with a grain of spiritual salt. Someday this will all be a memory of how we're making it to be right here right now."

Here's a link that I found useful:

http://www.enabling.org/ia/vipassana/Archive/K/Khema/AllOfUs/IIItoControlOnesMind.html

PUL,
Cosmic_Ambitions

thanks friend,

I appreciate your input. About that link... my own viewpoint or way to verbalise it is to "relax one's mind", not "control" it. I know it's just a matter of the words one chooses... but to a songwriter  or poet, words feel important. To me it's reliquinishing control while maintaining awareness... just as one would do so when falling asleep while allowing one's awareness to expand... there is a corresponding letting go of control WITHOUT GOING ANYWHERE.

What i'm after is relaxation without loss of consciousness. The link you provide talks about it in a somewhat 'upside-down' way.

But you know what i really appreciate?

YOUR SPIRIT, your voice. (THAT is infinitely interesting to me)

It comes clearly through the words you write.

I'm grateful. Keep writing. I'll try and do the same.

I truly appreciate it. Together we are a pair of wings..

(Let's take flight... there is such freedom in our sky!)

Love, Tim F.

Put differently, its all about mind, about thought, about perception - not about different dimensions and realms.  This is why, in my opinion concentration on the afterlife or OOBE can lead one astray.  Keep it simple.  At our core, our essence is pure perception.  Tim, this is what you are getting at, where relaxation will take you - being in the moment.  

Our minds are creative and powerful.  I believe that Cosmic's link to Buddhist notions of being mindful is important.  One of the greatest realizations I have had in the past few years is that the mind is constantly creating in the physical plane.  When we change our focus from the physical in death, the creative power is manifest much more directly - this is what TMI calls Focus 27  - and sounds almost magical.  However, nothing has really changed.  Living in the earth, while willingly bound by shared common universal laws, we have the ability to impress our deepest thoughts upon our unconscious.  Invariably, they manifest into our perception.  Some have called this phenomenon the "law of mind," and it has been known in various circles by shamans, healers, self-help gurus for centuries.  It seems too easy, or too good to be true.  It is the basis for "reap what you sow," and the golden rule, as well as karma.

Control your thoughts - this sounds artificial and forced - I don't like the phrase.  I prefer "know yourself."  Once you know of the power of the mind, the nature of intent and the connection of our shared subconscious to our thought and the creative power that is present, you are moving in the right direction.  Love over fear.  Assistance to others, loss of ego based decision making, all are a natural outflow of a deep understanding of the naature of mind and the creative power tied to thought.  

So I worry less about the location of the spirit world.  I focus in on thought and am actively exploring where it takes me and what it can do.  Had someone told me, that as a physician, I would have discussions with patients about the power of intent on healing, and that I would visualize them as being healed as I applied my medical training I would have thought five years ago that I must be insane.  That was voodoo and ludicrous back then.  Now I incorporate it in my practice, although it is subtle.  

Matthew

Doc-

As usual, you focus on what's important and not the theory-du-jour.  As I've said many times, we can choose to spend hour after hour on conversation boards, or we can choose to use that time much more productively by helping others.  That doesn't mean going around handing out money, even a kind word or a compassionate thought here and there is helpful.  Stopping to talk to a homeless person might give him or her a moment of hope, knowing that at least one person cares.

I do believe that thoughts are things, and we have to pay attention to how and what we think.  Sometimes I visualize a broom, sweeping all those stray and sometimes negative thoughts out of the window of my mind.  Then strive for a moment of silence, expecting nothing, and see what happens.  It's a constant sruggle but if we keep at it, the rewards can be enormous and maybe even life changing.

Also there might be a correlation between the intensity of our thoughts and the actual manifestation of those thoughts into physical reality.  For instance, a recurring and deep-seated fear of something might be the engine that brings that fear....or something like it....into being.  I continue to think that Mother Teresa had the right idea--- spend the time that we have by helping others.  By doing that, our negative thoughts will automatically begin to recede.  In fact, I'm willing to bet that she didn't have to worry about sweeping clean her mental house.  She was much too busy with what she perceived to be her mission while on earth.

If she had had the opportunity to scan internet conversation boards, I also bet she'd just shake her head, walk away and get about her tasks.  It seems as if all we do is think up things to ask and then engage in endless discussions about the what-ifs.  In the big picture, it's really quite pointless.  The afterlife is what it is.  Yes, we all want to know what is going to happen when we die.  And underlying that desire in a lot of cases is fear.  Curiosity yes, but fear plays a huge part.  The best way to cope with that fear is to become less self-centered by helping those who are much less fortunate than ourselves.

Doc, you are fortunate in that you have that opportunity in your job.  Your patients are indeed lucky to have you as their physician.

Hi Rondele,

 Of course what you're describing is your own experience of this site. Mine is different. I find this site helpful and practical, definitely not a waste of time.

I wish you joy, Tim F.

I actually think Tim and Rondele are on the same page when it comes to what Rondele described as being important; assisting and helping others.   Rondele I appreciate your kind words.  I suppose that our curiousity is going to more or less mandate that a search for the "place" of the afterlife is made.  When Emmanuel Swedenborg began to converse with angels and was shown various planes of existence, his curiousity took him there.  And yeah, I suppose, if during meditation I had an epiphany such as he did, I would follow it through as far as it took me.  

But who can deny Rondele's call for love, assistance, and living life to the fullest?

Matthew

Dave,

I began a response for you on an MS Word document, but I'm afraid I'm a bit distracted by preparations for my annual two week stint with the National Guard, which begins this weekend.

I will finish the response upon my return.

Love,
Rob

DocM wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2006 at 5:31pm:

I actually think Tim and Rondele are on the same page when it comes to what Rondele described as being important; assisting and helping others.   Rondele I appreciate your kind words.  I suppose that our curiousity is going to more or less mandate that a search for the "place" of the afterlife is made.  When Emmanuel Swedenborg began to converse with angels and was shown various planes of existence, his curiousity took him there.  And yeah, I suppose, if during meditation I had an epiphany such as he did, I would follow it through as far as it took me.   But who can deny Rondele's call for love, assistance, and living life to the fullest? Matthew

Touching on The Little Way as articulated by St. Therese of Liseux, the Little Flower.  It is an understanding of action and reaction in the daily life, whereby the smallest action, possibly seen as small by others, could be spiritually enormous (kind word to a homeless man, etc.).  I love the concept of the Little Way and am incorporating it into a course I am going to be helping teach to sixth graders soon.  Reading through some of these posts made me thing of it in clarity.  That one kind bit of hope to a stranger might be the thunderbolt that helps them make large strides.  Never forget that.

This is a great discussion!

I appreciate the kind words Tim; I fully agree with you about "relaxing the mind" and not necessarily "controlling it". That's well put, and far more appropriate.

Peace to you friend,

Like many on this board... you are a truly kind and wise soul.

PUL,
Cosmic_Ambitions

Yes, I relate deeply with the idea of relinquishing control. It is the "anything can happen" and "for the greater good of all beings" mentality which is crucial to being able to recognize the spirit which is within us. If we are unable to see it within us, we can alternatively recognize that it is also "outside" of us, as all of our 3-dimensional world is a reflection of the spirit within us. As you see, there you are. If we can learn to recognize all of life as spirit, all of life as a reflection of ourselves, then we automatically resonate with a higher power within us. Through the glass darkly. As we polish the mirror, it all becomes clear. We each need each other. Blow on the glass. Polish, polish. The breath of life is a gift.

love, blink

The difference between a stumbling block and a stepping stone is simply attitude.

That's also the difference between a devil and an angel.

"There are no sides, only angles... and when we view things from the right angle, it's obvious we're all on the same side."

             Swami Beyondananda

Quote:

On the list, it is the experience called "Richard L's NDE 2140."   http://www.nderf.org/site_index.htm

I know I'm a little late to the party here but thanks for the above quote, Recoverer.  It answered some questions I've had for nearly 20 years about one of my own experiences.

Love,
Rick

Hi Rick, hope you are well  

The NDE site is incredible i always get a sense of divine love together with clarity reading the messages; the site is as if it is a direct link to here from home. Richard's experience is quite powerful and confirming.  i wonder what he meant here though;

Quote from Richard L:
Did you have a sense of knowing special knowledge, universal order and/or purpose?     Yes            Everything is connected. There is no separation between us and what we describe as God. The rest of what I know, I'd rather not say right now. Some of it is very disturbing.  
*

Rick,
Did you have a similiar experience as this one ..  please may you share it with us.

:)

Hi Augo,
That quote about some of it being disturbing made me curious too.  I hope he does write a book about it.  I'd like to know what he meant.

In regards to the similarities with one of my experiences: it has to do with the barrier that he talks about.  In my experience I became conscious in a dream and found myself in a valley with 12 orientals (One of them I knew from the physical).  We all began to pray and then at one point we all lined up in single file.  I was third.  We all began to lift off the ground but I was to heavy so the person behind me helped me (he actually poked his thumb into the muscle between my genitals and the anus and as soon as I "pinched" this area tight I was able to levitate).  We began to fly over the earth, over hills and valleys and cities and eventually I felt the confidence to "go for it" and I shot straight up at what seemed to be the speed of light (some of this experience I've posted in the past).  When I felt as though I was approaching a barrier I began to question where I was going.  As soon as I started to think this way I was immediately grounded.  Richard L was able to break through the barrier and experience something very special.   It makes me wonder why we perceived  a barrier at all.  Maybe the barrier represents the casting off of all attachment to the physical so that you can perceive more clearly.  It's an interesting topic.  Do you have any thoughts on this?
Rick

Hi Rick and Augo

I read Richard's narrative too.  I felt that the barrier could only be crossed if you had actually died.  Don't know if I'm right or not but that was the first impression that came to mind when I read it.

Love
Irene

Hi Irene and Rick

That was a powerful experience you had Rick .. (the method to lift off is quite different, im wondering if we all going to start pinching that muscle now lol - wonder what that meant?!)

I know what you are saying about the speed - ive had one conscious obe where i went straight through the glass window of my lounge - i experienced a speed lift so powerful it made me realise this is how one would shoot straight towards 'home' - yes, through the barrier! also as soon as i thought about it i was grounded.  Did you see what the barrier looked like Rick or was it more of a knowing feeling?

i think as well, as you said Irene and Rick, the barrier can only be crossed once we die and all our spiritual bodies are completely freed from our physical body.  Richard L had died and so was able to go over the barrier but he came back to life, back through the barrier which is also interesting to be able to do this.

I like the metaphor you suggested Rick  - in perceiving the/a barrier in this case its almost like the dweller on the threshold that protects ourselves from ourselves if we not ready to enter the other worlds.

Somehow i think this barrier between here and there must be the magnetic shield that envelopes the earth .. what do you think?

Love
Caryn

In my experience I remember feeling that I was approaching a barrier.  But I think the barrier has nothing to do with whether you've died or not.  I think it's just in your mind. For me it was a fear thing.  The more attached you are to your body the more fear you have and the more difficult it is to cross the barrier.  Also fear dissappears with love.  The more you're able to feel love energy and give it freely then the less effect fear has on you.

Also I think pinching "that" muscle has something to do with severing the connection with your physical body.  In yoga you'll see some meditation positions where someone will be sitting with their heel dug into that muscle.  Whoever came up with that position knows a thing or two about OBE's.

Cheers,
Rick

That's a good description of fear and love Rick, thanks.
And the muscle position - very interesting.

Your experience is making me think about the path of Nos, Book of the Resurrection which is based on Nietzsche's work.  Which is based on the Hindu philosophical system and Yoga.  Awesome reading.

The path of Nos which is the way of A-Mor (A=without and Mor=death - without death) It was the initiatory doctrine of the troubadours, the Minnesangerand the Fedele d'Amore It was a kind of tantrism, a magic love.  and talks about the Circle of Returns searching  for the entrance to the Hollow Earth and the Cities of Agharti and Shambhalla in the Himalayas, and the City of the Caesars, the Giants and the White Gods in the Andes.

After each Turn of the Wheel; He (Jason) finds himself in the secret chamber in the mountain.  There is a Round Table with thirteen seats.  The thirteenth seat being for the Master; twelve Knights and one Master.  The thirteenth seat is called the Siege Perilous and in order to sit there Jason must fight a well-armed knight or else a huge cleft opens up under the seat and swallows Jason up.  He has been swallowed up many times in this seat and starts the path of Return again searching for the entrance.  Also, each Knight must come to the Round Table with His Lady, wearing the red gown of resurrection.  

... well, it just reminded me of this literature.

i do believe this literature is talking about the Black Hole which is in the centre of our universe (possibly the Galactic Point?)  the whole theme of this literature (which in my mind is a genuine path)
is a reversal eg Nos = Son and the entrance to the Hollow Earth is the inversion of our earth through a or the black hole = the Circle of Return - caused by the polar shift of the earths magnetic north pole (every 42,000 years)

Nos literature is fill of the polar star also re-reading the Michael books it is written that the universe has periods of reversal; a outward time and a inward time.

To me Jason; a initiate of High Order - remembers the Circle of Return where he entered the Hollow Earth (this must be a purely spiritual state or climate) and has also experienced the Outer Earth (as we are now) through each re-incarnation (for the period of afterlife in the Outer Earth state is not the same as Hollow Earth state, i think) he searches madly for the entrance to the Hollow Earth that may only come about through the shift of the poles or going into the black hole. Possibly both.

This is just a theory of mine - i might be wrong but somehow its all making sense to me.. and it's wrapped in romance .. but it is a romance that has been embraced by the Hindu philosophy and tied in with Orphic literature.  Further to my theory; Christ is the Son of the Gold Sun (Outer World) and Lucifer is the Son of the Black Sun (Hollow Earth) and we find that they are One (The Prince of Light and Darkness) and beyond the Gold Sun and the Black Sun is the Ray of Emerald Light.

It's just what your experience made me think of.  

:)