I want to know what any of your views on fate and destiny are. Did we choose to live our life with all the events that unfold everyday before we came into our bodies? Or is everything just random? Do I actually have control over my actions? Or am I living in a storybook?

I really want to know if events are really in our control. Because, a lot of times, they don't seem to be.


---James

We choose our lives before coming into the ELS (earth life system) but since we have free will, we choose how to live our lives once we're here. This is the way I understand it.

Love, Mairlyn ;-)

I think Mairlyn and I share the same understanding.  I would add that many believe there are some purposes to which we are born.  Gudance may send us in the right direction or warn us about going off on a tangent.  

I suppose that the general New Age thought is that we choose to incarnate here, but that free will is absolute once we are born.  Thought and belief are very strong creative forces in the earth plane and afterlife.  Those who believe in curses and immutable destiny may create their own fates (belief in voodoo, etc.).


Matthew

DocM wrote on Jul 18^th, 2006 at 9:43pm:

I think Mairlyn and I share the same understanding.  I would add that many believe there are some purposes to which we are born.  Gudance may send us in the right direction or warn us about going off on a tangent.   I suppose that the general New Age thought is that we choose to incarnate here, but that free will is absolute once we are born.  Thought and belief are very strong creative forces in the earth plane and afterlife.  Those who believe in curses and immutable destiny may create their own fates (belief in voodoo, etc.). Matthew

I'm wondering how it is that prophecies occur? If we choose our destiny, how does someone "there" tell others what is to happen? Unless it has already happened, before.
Or that maybe the future already exists and they can come back and tell what is to happen.

Here's one to boggle your mind. The future does already exist as does the past and present. It's all happening now. It took me quite awhile to really believe this but I do now.

Love, Mairlyn ;-)

wrote on Jul 18^th, 2006 at 10:36pm:

Here's one to boggle your mind. The future does already exist as does the past and present. It's all happening now. It took me quite awhile to really believe this but I do now. Love, Mairlyn ;-)

Oh it doesn't boggle my mind! Why do you believe this?

Mairlyn, can you expand on that a little bit?  I agree with you, but only by belief.  I only have a vague understanding of it.  It's one of those things I would need to sit and give a lot of thought to until it slowly sinks in.  Right now I'm still in the early stages, but this has always been very intriguing to me.  

Well, I only have a vague understanding of it too Vicky. It's that I've heard it so many times in the past 5 years that I've come to accept it. I understand that when we choose our lives, we can choose to go into the past or into the future. I guess you could say it's a matter of where your focus is. I can't explain it.  ::)

Love, Mairlyn ;-)

I agree with you Marilyn. It's actually something I came to the conclusion of also. But what bothers me is that all this fighting and violence in the world...is this pre-destined? Or, if a person commits suicide or does something horrible to another person...did he wish to do that before he or she entered the physical life?

I'm going to make a stab at a simplified explanation for prophecy and fate, along with free will.  First prophecy.  A new science called "remote viewing," has been explored by the government for years (google it, if you are interested).  The theory behind it, is similar to Jung's theory of the shared collective subconscious - but greater.  It basically states that all of our subconscious minds connect literally to a field or matrix of "all that is."   In this field, all the information, thoughts, images that have ever been or will be are to be found "imprinted" if you will.  Is this field God?  In some ways, perhaps yes.  We are all connected to it, so the theory goes, and don't generally access it with our conscious minds.  In dreams, we may get data from this universal field, but they transform into images, since our mind tries to make sense of an external source of information.

A remote viewer trains to relax and access this field.  By being given specific coordinates/location, the viewer then is trained to let images/information in to their conscious minds and report the results without letting the "interpretor" in their brain over interpret.  You might think that only a few talented souls could do this, but the government testing showed that most people could be trained to remote view people or objects (you can even get the government training manual on the web for free, wild as it sounds).  In remote viewing, viewers are able to obtain information not only about what is at another distant location, but at different points in time.  

Why bring this up?  Because in a way, it explains how we can have free will on earth, and yet how someone can predict a future event.  A Nostradamus, may access this information - see cataclysmic events in the time/no time zone, and then write of them.  In this universal field, linnear time, as we know it does not exist.  It exists in our perception in the conscious incarnated mind.  Does this mean that every prophecy must come to pass, when viewed this way?   I don't think so.  Free will still plays a role, and there may be branching choices or paths if you will that you can imagine accessing.  So on one path, the earth may be destroyed in a holocaust.  On another timeline, with different free will choices, we overcome our destructive tendencies.  

There is also the power of the mind to consider.  In the afterlife and other forms, thought creates reality immediately, with fewer restrictions.  When someone hurls a curse or a prophecy, if those affected incorporate it deeply into their thoughts and beliefs, it is likely to manifest (see discussions on this board of thought creating reality).  This is why certain voodoo and magic "curses," work, when deeply believed in by those affected.

So, in a nutshell, I believe that free will does reign supreme when we are in our conscious incarnated state.  There may be certain events that some will predict or prophesize, by accessing the "grid" of the universe, but these predictions do not cause the choices that lead to the outcome - that is up to us.  

We are, quite literally creatures of thought.  We can't create reality as easily at will (wishing for everything), but we can, through introspective analysis of our own minds learn that our deepest thoughts and beliefs, fears or aspirations are translated into our own realities.  Perhaps, other than unconditional love, that is what we are here on earth to learn.  That we are creative beings, and through love and thought we achieve wonderous things.


Matthew

Dear James,

yes, fate does exist. Suppose you are killed by someone. Is that your fate? Maybe. If you killed someone in a previous life, it's possible the person you killed is angry and wants to kill you... in a next life.

A car accident. Fate? Maybe... If it's time to go, you go, and the accident is just a way to terminate your current life. It's also possible it wasn't your time yet, then you go too "early". But "early" doesn't exist. You should have been more careful! So, it's just a consequence of your acts.

You met someone and she becomes your wife. Fate? Well, yes. It can mean two things: or you have done something wrong to her in a previous life, and now you will have to make it up, or she has something done wrong and now she has to make it up.

Cancer? A disease can be fate, but I don't think we can say it happens very often. Cancer is a result of the weakening of the human body.

So, if you want to understand your life and the world, you would have to look in the past, the past lives of you, me and everybody.

Wars? Fate? No. The result of us, humans, who do want to fight...

I suspect we set the general direction and timing, then the details work themselves out.  For instance, my late husband had worked as a tree trimmer for over thirty years.  He had never had a serious accident doing that (bunged himself up mildly in a few other ways, but not trimming).  He went out in storms, swung a chain saw around over his head in raging gales fifty feet off the ground, barely a scratch.  Last September a big limb popped loose when he was on the ground working the ropes, hit the one spot it could have done some damage (where he was standing, out of all the area under the tree) and killed him.  About nine months before that, he'd been hit in almost the same place by a swinging cable hook, which he saw and ducked just in time to just get a busted nose and a headache.  To fit this in with my theory, he was supposed to go at around fifty, fifty-one, from a blow to the head, but exact date and details depended on the circumstances.

Or I could be utterly and totally full of it...take your pick... ;)

Greetings,
So we could say, just to paraphrase, that fate is the result of choices we made with guidance while planning our lives. Plans were made before we were born into this body we have now. Plans were based on what we've done before.  The best plan is to follow the highest plan, the one made with guidance before entering, but we get pulled off the plan and then it has to be adjusted.
Bruce Moen's writings discuss this in a completely guilt-free way as The Big Clock (see Book Forum under Conversations on the index board.  ;)  )
I've got one slight disagreement with the discussion so far, Rataplan. Disease comes from a weakening of the body that is not random, right? The weakening of the body is part of the whole process of choice, perhaps choices made previously.  
Say in planning my life I didn't want the distraction of children, but when I got here and saw the love they can inspire, how cute they can be, how much we learn by teaching them, etc etc that I decided yes, I do want some.  Woops, too late, fate already set me up to not have any. So I must reconcile my previous plan with my current preferences, and those adjustments may not have the harmony for my life that the original fate/plan had. My fight to adjust the plan may be hard on my body and my body may get dis-ease to a critical extent, IMO.
bets
 

Hi James Bond,

just my two cents worth, but I believe that in a plane where there is free will there is not really anything like a rigid fate.  For free will to truly function, there must be a free environment for it to be exercised within.  This brings with it such things as randomness, and perhaps even a little chaos.  This, I truly believe, is why there are horrible occurrences that happen to good people, why violent evil can be exercised on such a large scale (in history), and much more.  It is simply because it is a free world with allowance for free will, and that leaves the potential for randomness, as well as the good, the bad, and the ugly...ranging from willful actions of humans to things that happen within the more physical aspects of our surroundings, such as earthquakes, cancers and heart conditions (both triggered by environment and those caused by lasting genetic inheritance within family lines), etc.  I am probably not doing this argument much justice in such a short response, but let me know if this makes sense or I will be glad to flesh it out further.

Basically:  Freewill World entails a certain degree of randomness, which can have good or bad effects.

Now, as far as "destiny" or "prophecy", I believe you have to take in mind that regarding God and our world on earth, we are talking about two time planes.  Here, we have linear time and we also have space.  There, it is out of time and space, an eternal frame not governed by such limits.  

As such, those in the Eternal Now, would be able to see what will happen as well as what has happened.  That doesn't negate the choices that we make as physical beings in this linear time and space...as we have free will...it just means that those above may very well have the ability to see what choices we did make.  Their perspective is out of time.  Ours is following a linear time.  Does that make sense?  In such an instance, a revelation to a prophet would be perfectly possible, and the foreknowledge of something, given by someone from that Eternal Now, would certainly make a person living within this linear time and space seem like a "destiny" of sorts.  Absolute freedom to act, but those in the Eternal Now could well know what you do, made possible by two entirely different relations to the concept of time.

I hope I didn't garble that too much, but just my two cents worth, as I said.

I hope my destiny is too not have to live this same life over again.

I've discussed free will and the concept of fate with soooo many people. This is sort of a quasi proof that I think proves fate---but there is a condition. You have to believe that God or a supreme entity of some sort exists. I shall refer to this entity with the pronoun "He" for practicality.

Suppose that a supreme entity exists and this entity therefore has knowledge of everything. Therefore, this entity knows everything that has ever happened, that is happening currently (in our frame of linear time reference), and everything that will happen. To him, time does not seem like what we go through. To God, events in time look like a picture book. Since he knows what will happen, therefore there has to be fate. That is, if you believe in God, this can only work.

However, this does not disregard free will at the same time.  Let's say that you make a choice. In the grand scheme of things, you already made that choice, but you still made it. In OUR frame of reference, we are doing free will. But in God's frame of reference, since he knows everything, then it is fate to him. Therefore, free will is also fate...or I guess it depends on the frame of reference. This is sort of what I think, but it's all just a bunch of thoughts.

What do you guys think?

JamesBond wrote on Jul 20^th, 2006 at 12:24am:

Suppose that a supreme entity exists and this entity therefore has knowledge of everything. Therefore, this entity knows everything that has ever happened, that is happening currently (in our frame of linear time reference), and everything that will happen. To him, time does not seem like what we go through. To God, events in time look like a picture book. Since he knows what will happen, therefore there has to be fate. That is, if you believe in God, this can only work. What do you guys think?

Perhaps God rewrites the story.
Maybe a few tears are good maybe too many tears are bad.
God is love.

Greetings Cricket,
Just wanted you to know that I type slowly and my previous reply here was following what Rataplan said, and was not about the news about your husband. I apologize if it seemed otherwise. Your interpretation of the irony him surviving a similiar situation and then re-experiencing it as fatal is how I would see that too.

JamesB, you said book and not movie. Perhaps between the pages with illustrations, we have some space to draw or doodle in the margins? but by the time  the page is turned we're back on track? At least that's how I would now explain it now with your help. I may even change my name to 'consumate doodler.'   ::) Thanks!

I hope you are right betson...I want some control in my life.

What I believe destiny, fate and free will  means is summed up very neatly in a book by Brian Weiss "Messages from the Masters - Tapping into the Power of Love".

"Although every human being has a life plan, we also have free will, as do our parents and evreyone with whom we interact.  Our lives and theirs will be affected by the choices we make while in physical state, but the destiny points will still occur.  We will meet the people we had planned to meet, and we will face the opportunities and obstacles that we had planned long before our births.  How we handle these meetings, however, our reactions and subsequent decisions, are the expressions of our free will.  Destiny and free will will co-exist and interact all the time.  They are complementary, not contradictory".  

I have always felt that the "big" events in our lives are planned, but how we react to them and how we proceed from there is up to each of us.  

With love
Irene

Quote:

"Although every human being has a life plan, we also have free will, as do our parents and evreyone with whom we interact.  Our lives and theirs will be affected by the choices we make while in physical state, but the destiny points will still occur.  We will meet the people we had planned to meet, and we will face the opportunities and obstacles that we had planned long before our births.  How we handle these meetings, however, our reactions and subsequent decisions, are the expressions of our free will.  Destiny and free will will co-exist and interact all the time.  They are complementary, not contradictory".

I love this. It states what I feel.  I've put this book on my wish list at amazon.  Thanks Irene. ;-)

Love, Mairlyn ;-)

eggshellseas wrote on Jul 19^th, 2006 at 9:53pm:

I hope my destiny is too not have to live this same life over again.

I feel as though I'm repeating things over and over again already and I tend to go to places in everyday life and I think I've already been there before even when I hadn't before as far as our world's idea of time is concerned.

I certainly hope I don't have to re-live this life. If its the same outcome again then what is the point???