(Note : I originally posted this in the off-topic subforum; thereafter, after reading the many replies on the other forums that I also made this post in (eg. the Astral Pulse forum, the Near Death forum, etc), that largely show appreciation for my posting it, and from many posters' own sharing of their (almost without exception) negative experiences from using the Ouija board, I've decided to move the thread to the main 'Afterlife Knowledge' forum. And afterall, this does directly have to do with the Afterlife, and efforts to contact those in the Afterlife. In this case of the Ouija board, it's an ill-advised method. If you have friends that do not visit this forum, but are at risk of trying out the Ouija, please forward this message to them perhaps via email.)


The Dangers of The Ouija Board (don't try it at home folks!)

(I also posted this on the "NDE & Afterlife" forum *here*, but was taken originally from the Astral Pulse forum *here* :


Quote:

Which make me wonder...just what is it about Ouija that causes so much negativity.

Hilarion on the Ouija Board :
http://infinity.usanethosting.com/Heart.Of.God/Hilarion/Hilarion_on_OujaBoard.gif

For more Hilarion quotes :
http://infinity.usanethosting.com/Heart.Of.God/main.htm#Hilarion

This is interesting, Kyo.  Thanks.  I have often thought that lower level forms of consciousness would choose certain forms of communication with the physical world as being easier.  I have suspected that EVP, (electronic voice phenomenon) and ouija have a mixture of earth bound spirits and some lower level ones who come through, separate from your "run of the mill," Focus 27 deceased person.

The idea that forces of darkness and light have agreed that the ouija is the territory of the dark side seems humorous to me, and falls into the dualistic way of seeing the world.  I don't dismiss it outright - that famous tale of possession in The Exorcist started with a ouija board, as I recall..  However, there is nothing special to me about letters on a board in the physical plane.  Kids play with the equivalent of a ouija board every day in daycare across the country.   If one meditates, and says an affirmation to the highest good, as Monroe and TMI advocate, does it really matter if one is exploring with the mind in a bed or with a ouija board?

So, it is interesting and thought provoking to ponder whether some forms of comunication may be inherently more able to come in contact with lower level entities.  In general, most kids who play with ouija boards are not hurled into a deadly or severe danger - no more than using the "magic eight ball," to ask yes or no questions.... But for the true seekers of consciousness, a warning appears prudent.  

Hey!  I just realized, my searches of consciousness don't employ any of Hilarion's five paths to knowledge (numerology, astrology, angel cards, etc.).  Oh well.  
Matthew

Hi Matthew,

Regarding "The idea that forces of darkness and light have agreed that the ouija is the territory of the dark side seems humorous to me, and falls into the dualistic way of seeing the world", perhaps I can explain this in another way :

Instead of hastily extrapolating too much into what one might assume Hilarion actually meant by his seemingly dualistic comment of "forces of light" vs "forces of darkness", let's try another (out-of-the-box) angle of looking at it.

There are agreements of sorts occurring all the time, whether legally binding ones, or simply unspoken, universally implied type agreements, even between countries, between organizations (eg. between the UN and various Nations; between China and Taiwan, China and North Korea, North Korea and South Korea, etc), even between various mafia gangs (eg. unspoken territory agreements), and also in some way, between the cops and the mafia/gangs (eg. they don't overtly cross each other's paths, in a way that would be detrimental for either/both).

Similarly, the guides & helpers, or various sections/departments/groups of the guides & helpers (we face the problem of using limited *physical* human language here) do have their own various types of agreements with other groups, eg. with the 'spiritual authorities' or 'spiritual governments' of other planetary civilizations, for instance; this is the only way soul transmigration across planets/worlds can proceed in a harmonious and productive manner for all worlds involved).

Now, if you discard the hollywood or dogmatic religion's fiction of "good" vs "evil", "god" vs" satan", "angels" vs "demons", etc, and instead, recognize (without judgement of fear based ideas) there do exist groups or categories of beings, that out of misguided lack of self-clarity and self-love (as Dave and myself have elaborated), participate in intrusive and unloving activities (simply because they don't know any better, not because they're inherently 'evil', as dogmatic fiction would have one believe), for the sake of simplifying and communicating these matters to the masses, we might say they're the "dark brothers" (Hilarion) or "dark force entities" (William Baldwin), etc.

Heck, even if you (as some might prefer to believe or see things that way) totally disregard this group/category of beings, or dismiss them as a work of dualistic fiction, which is fine; then the fact still remains that AGREEMENTS OF ALL SORTS STILL CERTAINLY DO EXIST BETWEEN ALL LEVELS AND ALL GROUPS OF BEINGS.

So it's quite a natural (inevitable, really) extension, (or at the very least certainly conceivable), that there may exist agreements on various matters, or in this case various tools (eg. Ouija boards, Astrology, Tarot cards, etc). Afterall, when it comes to something as important (from the viewpoint of the guides & helpers) as humanity's spiritual development and guidance, the guides & helpers would be more than willing to make agreements and (they certainly have the power to) enforce them.

So Matthew, and others who might be puzzling over this point. Consider a basic fundamental viewpoint (eg. the dualistic idea of "dark vs light"). Consider yet other viewpoints from a different fundamental perspective (eg. the universalistic idea of non-dualism). Consider them simultaneously, and EVOLVE A GREATER PERSPECTIVE, one that is more complete from the two separately or individually, and you come to a greater understanding.

The guides & helpers themselves are at all times doing this. We all ALL evolving. The guides & helpers have their own guides & helpers, who have their own guides & helpers, AD INFINITUM (literally!). Hilarion has confirmed this, very matter-of-factly.

In this sense, and this is also why we've been emphasizing this, there is no one static objective 'truth' or 'right/wrong', because ALL viewpoints, ALL beings, ALL concepts, ALL WITHOUT EXCEPTION, continue evolving perpetually. As Hilarion or the International Academy of  Consciousness (IAC) would put it, there is only Relative Leading Edge Truths.

And this is as it should be. This is the very Plan or Purpose, of Creation. God exploring, creating and experiencing, *as* each and all beings in the Cosmos. And (for good measure) Loving every bit of it!

I'm gonna have to go with DocM on this. I'm not sure that I understand why channeling through paper and letters is any different than channeling through tarot cards; meditation; self reflection; etc.? It's all just a form of synchronizing one's mind into higher levels of consciousness. If one wants to dispute the methods be they benign & unsacrificial in the inhumane way, or that it's something that was "agreed" upon unbenounced to us in the ethereal states, I see no dispute here. I don't really view our reality as being a sort of quessing children's game, whereby playing/utilizing certain wrong objects will lead to self destruction or spiritual demotion... After all, the whole point of us being here is to be curious and learn. We didn't neccessarily get a "Guide to Life" manual upon entering this realm of existence... so, we just have to kind of feel our way around. As such, I would hearnestly make room for a lot of "leniency" when it comes to people's methods of self discovery.

Just my p.o.v.

PUL,
Cosmic_Ambitions  

Hi Kyo and Matthew I was told once by a medium ,that someone was going to offer me the chance to go on a ouja board in the future, and i was to say no to it ,as the medium said the ouja board is bad news,it can open it up for evil spirits to come through, and they pretend to be someone you have loved and lost ,until you get so you want to keep using the ouja board, and after a while the evil spirits will show there true colours,and then its to late ,they will plague you and then you need a priest to exorcise them. Love and god bless you juditha

Couldnt have put it better myself juditha love deanna

Kyo, what do you think about the use of pendulums?  I have 2 and have just started using mine again.

Love, Mairlyn ;-)

wrote on Jul 8^th, 2006 at 2:01pm:

Kyo, what do you think about the use of pendulums?  I have 2 and have just started using mine again. Love, Mairlyn ;-)

Dear Mairlyn,

Pendulums are (in comparison for instance to the Ouija board or Tarot Cards) an 'unregulated', or neutral, or natural, set of tools that are most directly used for communication with the subconscious.

If one uses it for communication with other extraphysical beings, it is usually through (these beings) working through your subconscious. This process (of working through the person), as compared to say, EVP in which the extraphysical beings more directly manipulate the electromagnetic or physical matter, does admittedly make the use of the pendulum a little more risky*.

So in summary, it is a neutral tool on its own. While there have been known cases of both positive experiences, as well as for some others, negative experiences, as a result of using the pendulum. The determining factor will be the nature and vibration of the beings that you *ask* to contact, as well as the intentions and vibrations of your own thosenes (THOughts, SENtiments and EnergieS).

I do not particularly discourage, nor particularly recommend either, the use of the pendulum. It's a neutral tool and is really a matter of personal preference, up to each individual if you/he/she like(s) to work with the pendulum as a tool.

Perhaps caution would be advised, for the reason* stated earlier. If you intuitively feel positive about the use of the pendulum, then by all means do so, but with positive thosenes and vibrations, and always request and invite the protection and participation of your guides & helpers, in all pendulum sessions. And unless you're sure of yourself, never ask any external being or entity, to answer your questions via the pendulum.

Before any and all channeling sessions (Hilarion), Jon C Fox always takes the precaution of a prayer and/or ritual of psychic protection, always clearly (and respectfully and lovingly) requesting for the protection and participation of the guides & helpers, including naturally, Hilarion himself. This is a very sensible precaution.

And since the use of the pendulum, is akin to channeling (remember that any being that answers you through the pendulum, must operate through your subconscious, which is a form of channeling), thus a simliar procedure or prayer/ritual for psychic protection would be wise.


Love, Kyo ;)

Thank you Juditha, and Deanna. The both of you are very beautiful, loving souls.

:)
Love, Kyo




wrote on Jul 8^th, 2006 at 12:27pm:

Hi Kyo and Matthew I was told once by a medium ,that someone was going to offer me the chance to go on a ouja board in the future, and i was to say no to it ,as the medium said the ouja board is bad news,it can open it up for evil spirits to come through, and they pretend to be someone you have loved and lost ,until you get so you want to keep using the ouja board, and after a while the evil spirits will show there true colours,and then its to late ,they will plague you and then you need a priest to exorcise them. Love and god bless you juditha

I have a chapter in my book on how I used the ouiji board for the first and last time I might add. the problem is most people use it as a game and its not a game.
I don't believe in evil versus good so my experience is unique as is everyone's, according to how much fear or love is inside the heart. the night I used it was some 45 years ago to get my knowings basically, but I don't advocate it for others to use; must be an easier way I said to meself.
I did meet some suspicious spirit blokes who loved testing me out. they didn't seem to have my best interests in mind and I got angry..anger is only fear, self protective fear. I was immature, didn't know much about anything, how I was conjuring up this world. yet there was two parts to my spirit even then; a higher and a lower self. I had decided from my higher self to teach my lower self a thing or two. thats my impression, that I designed this experience for myself from a higher level and so it came true.
that night, just for insurance, I wore a cross on my neck, as large as a nun's cross. I said "just in case I'm amiss here."  I heard two voices. You must choose Jesus's path or the path of power in the world. choose now. I asked the spirits to leave and they only left after I chose Jesus. the funny thing is I've not considered to join any religion this life, but circumstances (lol) were such, even if you are an atheist in a moment of great fear you will call out the name of god nonetheless.

that was my test night; you can bet I didn't get a wink of sleep. that board is so ancient and slow and only attracts pranksters from the astral. the good guys, the guides and helpers they work by sending you love, lifting you up in your efforts to evolve and get your knowings. I repeat, you trust your heart and look around for someone who's already been successful in returning to god or good.

hugs, alysia

As always, hugggs and much love to you, dear Alysia :)

Kyo


LaffingRain wrote on Jul 8^th, 2006 at 2:57pm:

I have a chapter in my book on how I used the ouiji board for the first and last time I might add. the problem is most people use it as a game and its not a game. I don't believe in evil versus good so my experience is unique as is everyone's, according to how much fear or love is inside the heart. the night I used it was some 45 years ago to get my knowings basically, but I don't advocate it for others to use; must be an easier way I said to meself. I did meet some suspicious spirit blokes who loved testing me out. they didn't seem to have my best interests in mind and I got angry..anger is only fear, self protective fear. I was immature, didn't know much about anything, how I was conjuring up this world. yet there was two parts to my spirit even then; a higher and a lower self. I had decided from my higher self to teach my lower self a thing or two. thats my impression, that I designed this experience for myself from a higher level and so it came true. that night, just for insurance, I wore a cross on my neck, as large as a nun's cross. I said "just in case I'm amiss here."  I heard two voices. You must choose Jesus's path or the path of power in the world. choose now. I asked the spirits to leave and they only left after I chose Jesus. the funny thing is I've not considered to join any religion this life, but circumstances (lol) were such, even if you are an atheist in a moment of great fear you will call out the name of god nonetheless. that was my test night; you can bet I didn't get a wink of sleep. that board is so ancient and slow and only attracts pranksters from the astral. the good guys, the guides and helpers they work by sending you love, lifting you up in your efforts to evolve and get your knowings. I repeat, you trust your heart and look around for someone who's already been successful in returning to god or good. hugs, alysia

Thank you Kyo. I only use the pendulum for asking myself questions and I always use protection -- white and golden light, bringing down my I AM Presence before any meditation or using the pendulum.

Much Love,
Mairlyn ;-)

My sister and her roomate had a very traumatic experience with a ouija board...had "success" talking to a passed friend, but after taking a short break they came back to the board and there was a perceptibly different result, with a very angry "spirit", with ensuing phenomenon like the sounds of growling, a huge drop in temperature (reflected on their thermostat...every time they tried to reset it it shot back down, with frigid temperatures), and with objects moving and swinging on the walls.  Scared the daylights out of my sister.

Had another friend that had a "spirit" take control to the point that they had their hands off the board, and the pointer was moving on its own, then shot across the room to smash into a wall, and then the board flipped up and over by itself.  Needless to say, they didn't use the board anymore either.

These two experiences, with people that I know are very lucid and not at all prone to any hyperbole, were definitely cautions that I have heeded even though I've always wanted to witness something of a supernatural nature. (yes, my plague of being a doubting Thomas)

As far as evil/good dichotomies go, I definitely would believe that just as their are entities with altruistic and unconditional tendencies, there are also entities that thrive off of using, abusing, and causing pain.  I would define this as evil, not in a "contest" sense of good versus evil, but in the existence of things that most certainly derive pleasure from causing pain to others or dominating them.  Yes, they are misguided, but it is to a degree that produces a malevolent fruit.  I have studied alot of exorcisms within the Roman Catholic church, and in all cases there is a thorough study to rule out psychological problems or anything relating to known science before an exorcism is even attempted.  Ouija boards have been known to be at the gateway to some of the exorcisms that were confirmed genuine and pursued.  I would definitely define a spirit that willfully revels in such abuse of people as evil, and I think it is very good of you to post the warnings regarding Ouija boards.

I was using a ouija board on numerous occasions with a friend at around the age of 15-16.  We did a lot of really dumb and spiritually risky things at the time, which I suppose is normal for teenagers.

I will say that before we started doing it, the house I was living in was completely spiritually clean, and that after we started, that most certainly was not the case.  I'd be sitting in that bedroom at my computer and would experience spirits randomly walking in and out past me.  I also got the impression that some of those randomly walking past me like that weren't human; I wouldn't have described them as demons as such, but more as beings who usually existed somewhere else entirely but who were drawn to where I was (and enabled to interact with me, to a small extent) via the access point that the ouija board established.

There were also numerous instances where I would be lying in bed at night and would hear whispering and what sounded like many small footsteps in the hall outside my bedroom door.  I would get up to investigate, but the moment I opened the bedroom door the whispering would stop, only to start again as soon as I got back into bed.  I also experienced what felt like something with about the mass of a cat jumping or landing on the bed in some instances.  

There is also one more persistent thing.  A spirit which I believe was drawn to me then is still somewhat following me around now.  There will be times at night where I will experience nightmares.  I will wake up, and be aware of a presence in the room, but will find waking much more difficult than usual.  It will feel as though something is literally trying to drag me back to sleep, and I believe that is for the purpose of continuing the nightmare.  That has happened when I have gone back to sleep during those incidents, and it's also the only time I've been able to continue dreams after waking and resuming sleep.

I believe the way a ouija board works is as a completely unregulated beacon in astral space.  It's essentially like shooting a particularly bright flare up into the sky.  Anyone can see it, and anyone who sees it can choose to go towards it.  I'll also use the Stargate analogy again here, for those of you who've seen SG-1.  You can essentially think of a ouija board as not only being a strong beacon, but also an entirely open stargate (I think the term normally used by mediums is "vortex") into astral space, without an iris (the barrier the humans in the series devised to prevent nasties coming through) installed.

Because the intent behind using a ouija board is also usually an entirely unfocused "let's see who's out there," said gate is likewise completely non-discriminating.  You're literally playing Russian roulette; Anyone at all who wants to can choose to walk through, and so getting a troubled human spirit from the lower etheric/F23 is actually the best case scenario.  Worst case is when you get someone coming through who is from a non-human domain entirely; it's a very large multiverse out there.  The other thing is that as I experienced, the vortex that a ouija board opens doesn't necessarily close when the ouija session ends; closing it can require other measures entirely, in terms of either exorcism, energetic purification of the area, or a banishing ritual.

I don't believe what Hilarion is quoted as saying about a ouija board being designated evil as such, but I do believe that there's less than a 1% chance of getting a positive entity from a ouija board session, and the reason why has to do with the issue of consent.  Positive beings only interact with you directly when they're very specifically asked to do so.  They don't otherwise, because to do so would be a violation of your free will.  Part of the definition of being an STS or negative entity on the other hand though is that rather than waiting for your permission, if they are given an access point they will come through of their own accord, and very often do a whole multitude of things which not only have you not asked for, but most assuredly will not want.

I would not try and tell anyone directly not to use a ouija board; we all have our own experiences for our own learning.  However, I would advise anyone considering it to be aware that in my experience, doing so can have radically negative and uncontrolled consequences.  It's very much the spiritual equivalent of unsafe sex, IMHO.

Thanks, Newwayknight, and thanks for sharing your experience, too :)

Quote:

I think it is very good of you to post the warnings regarding Ouija boards.

Petrus wrote on Jul 8^th, 2006 at 8:38pm:

I believe the way a ouija board works is as a completely unregulated beacon in astral space... I don't believe what Hilarion is quoted as saying about a ouija board being designated evil as such... It's very much the spiritual equivalent of unsafe sex, IMHO.

Hi Petrus, you're just about correct in what you've said, except that you seem to have slightly misunderstood, or not totally understood, Hilarion's explanation. He didn't say it was "designated evil". He said that unlike the 5 methods of guidance previously mentioned (eg. Astrology, Palmistry, Numerology, Tarot Cards, I-Ching), the Ouija board is not under the any special higher protection. (See "Tarot Cards" on my website for more details).

So in that sense, it is much like you've described, that it is "the equivalent of unprotected sex", and that "there's less than a 1% chance of getting a positive entity from a ouija board session, and the reason why has to do with the issue of consent" and other reasons as well. So again, you're just about correct in your understanding of the Ouija, except for the "designated evil" bit (you misunderstood Hilarion on), which you've to understand the context of the *comparison* Hilarion was making with the 5 other specific methods of divination.

(edit : added the following)

In case some are wondering then, on my last statement of the preceeding paragraph. In that case, what makes the Ouija board any more dangerous than all other methods, since all other methods other than the 5 protected methods, are also 'unprotected'?

For those who puzzle of this then, here is the answer - In *comparison* to all other methods (other than the 5 + 1 methods), most other methods do not come nearly as explicitly to inviting communication with extraphysical beings. Perhaps the best illustration here would be to consider the Tarot Cards with the Ouija Board.

Other methods, such as hypnotherapy, do not directly invite extraphysical beings to "come in". Even EVP (Electronic Voice Phenomenon), which one could argue does (that is, just the intention to record EVP instances) broadcast out and attract the attention of extraphysical beings, including notably discarnate human consciousnesses who are blind guides, earthbound, or intrusive. But by comparison to the Ouija, in which the extraphysical beings direct intrude into the mind of the Ouija board user in order to manipulate the Ouija handpiece, the extraphysical beings involved in EVP attempt to directly manipulate the electromagnetic wavelengths.

This is why, IN THE CONTEXT OF COMPARISON (in comparsion both with the 5 protected methods, as well as in comparison with most other methods), Hilarion stated that the use of the Ouija Board is "extremely dangerous".

DocM wrote on Jul 8^th, 2006 at 7:33am:

Hey!  I just realized, my searches of consciousness don't employ any of Hilarion's five paths to knowledge (numerology, astrology, angel cards, etc.).  Oh well.  Matthew

Hi again Matthew,

(I was busy addressing the other points in my earlier reply to you; it just occurred to me to address this little point now).

It appears that you *might* have slightly misunderstood Hilarion's meaning on this point. Just to clarify for info's sake, the methods of Astrology, Palmistry, I-Ching, Numerology and Tarot Cards, are not quite as implied, "Hilarion's five paths to knowledge". This phrase has implications that might be inaccurate.

That is to say, Hilarion certainly *isn't* saying that everyone 'should' be using these methods, or that these methods are particularly useful, helpful or informative to use (eg. as compared to the methods of modern hypnotic psychotherapy), he's just saying that these methods of divination have the special characteristic of being under a system of protection, by consequence of agreements being made (eg. agreements with the Tarot Angels). This is 'special' in the sense that those who do not know the full story behind these 5 systems, might fail to fully appreciate or understand how they might work as well as they do, if simply based on appearances.

By and large, all other 'methods' (ie. other than these 5, and the Ouija) are neutral in the sense by the principles that most other people here correctly understood, that is the principle of vibrational resonance, or simply put, "like attracts like". So depending on the quality and vibrations of your thosenes, you're gonna be attracting extraphysical beings and intrusions of corresponding nature. Of course, as Petrus also correctly pointed out, there's also the factor of "permission", or put in other words, the "blind guides" and less evolved entities, try to intrude whenever they can. Whilst the true guides & helpers, and all more evolved consciousnesses, only assist or participate with proper invitation and appropriateness.

One more point, Matthew. Other than the difference already described above, with regards to the 5 methods as compared to say, hypnotherapy methods, namely the difference that the 5 methods are automatically protected by virtue of various agreements being made with various guide/helper/guardian/angel beings (though many will still not believe this aspect, and that's fine with us/Hilarion), there is one other critical difference. I address this because the last sentence in your post, seemed to indicate a possible misunderstanding on the meaning of this point as well. (Please pardon me (with my apologies) if my assumptions are incorrect, and therefore perhaps unfair to you. I just felt it possibly informative to use your point, as an opportunity to add the following).

And that is, hypnotherapy (as an example) or other methods are sciences or practices developed by men. The 5 methods are GIFTS of Divination and Guidance, given out of love, unto Humanity by beings that are, in their various capacities, acting as higher guides, helpers, guardians and angelic beings. As a consequence, their modus operandii significantly differs, from what the uninitiated (ie. those who do not study the esoteric aspects of these methods) or from what most people might think.

For instance, most people simply think that the Tarot Cards work solely though one's work subconscious, and for some, they acknowledge the role of the guides & helpers in working through the Reader's subconscious mind to manipulate the cards. That's all well and reasonable.

BUT THAT'S NOT THE FULL PICTURE. Because there exists, behind the scenes, an additional and crucial factor of the AGREEMENT of the Tarot Angels, from whom the Gift of the Tarot Cards came from, and of whom this entire voluntarily project is one of selfless service, love and assistance to humanity.

Now, we're (and Hilarion) are not saying that everyone who uses these 5 methods should necessarily need to know the bigger picture behind it, or that Tarot Card users should necessarily acknowledge the role of the Tarot Angels. All we're saying, is that there is much love and considerable selfless service behind these gifts, a gift of love to Humanity, that most people do not realize.

Kyo,

Your original post puts tarot and angel cards together. Yet there is a crucial difference between the two. The Tarot is a mixture of 'good' and 'bad', while the angel cards are just 'good.' Furthermore, some people are able to use angel and not tarot cards and vice versa. It seems then that there is a qualitative difference here.

Thoughts?

Love,
Rob

Rob,

That's an interesting point you brought up there. Indeed, Hilarion was speaking originally of the Tarot Cards, if for no other reason that at the time of that channeling and publication (over 20 years ago), Angel Cards (such as the ones conceptualized and sold by Doreen Virtue) were either not yet in existence, or not yet in popular use.

I do not personally use either of these two tools of guidance, and thus (other than quoting Hilarion on the Tarot Cards), have not much in way of further comment.

Perhaps if someone (perhaps yourself?) had personal experience with both, he/she could share his/her experiences and opinions on the relative (or distinctive aspects of) helpfulness, usefulness, reliability, validity or accuracy of the two systems (Tarot vs Angel Cards).

Love,
Kyo


Rob_Roy wrote on Jul 9^th, 2006 at 2:23am:

Kyo, Your original post puts tarot and angel cards together. Yet there is a crucial difference between the two. The Tarot is a mixture of 'good' and 'bad', while the angel cards are just 'good.' Furthermore, some people are able to use angel and not tarot cards and vice versa. It seems then that there is a qualitative difference here. Thoughts? Love, Rob

Kyo,

Since there seems to be a qualitative difference between the two types of cards, or possibly for the person using them, perhaps further, updated clarification from Hilarion would be appropriate?

Love,
Rob

Rob,

Yes perhaps, if those who are interested enough in such a question would ask this of Hilarion. It's not personally a topic of particular interest though (I made the original post as a service of warning against a tool that could be potentially problematic). Anyone who subscribes to the Quarterly Channelings and has an interest in this topic, could submit just a question for Jon's consideration to include it.

And, as far as I know, since the original Maurice B Cooke channeling of the article posted in this thread, Hilarion has not spoken on, or probably felt the need to, any clarification on any difference betweent the Tarot Cards or the Angel Cards. And because there is a fundamental similiarity between the way these cards work (the only major difference, as you pointed out, is the "good" and "bad" cards, which the Angels could easily work around by rephrasing their answers and simply leaving out the "bad" or warnings), I think it safe to assume that both of these cards are safe and protected.

This (assumption that the Angel cards are also protected and safe to use) makes sense for two more intuitive reasons - the strong association both these card systems have with "Angels". Anyone familiar with the work of Doreen Virtue would know there's nothing sinister or "dark" about her work. It may be along a somewhat different vibration/nature/direction than say, Hilarion's, but it's still clearly positive.

The other reason, perhaps the most important one, being the characteristic difference you pointed out. Doreen Virtue (and others who decided to produce the cards) might have decided that she wanted to design a deck of cards that do not have the possibility of spreading fear (for instance by someone having a 'bad' card), and so eliminated the 'bad' cards. As a result, there can only be less potential fear and less potential harm done, via such Card Readings. So it makes the Angel Cards even safer, on this level/way at least.

At the very 'worst', even if for instance, the Tarot Cards are the only protected cards (say the Tarot Angels decide, "No, we *only* made the gift of the Tarot Cards; we cannot be held responsible for the Angel Cards as well"), and the Angel Cards are a totally random process, then what harm is there? Afterall the cards are all 'good' cards.

Common sense indicates the 'forces of darkness' (if you will), the intruders, or even the psychotic post mortems (or 'earthbounds' or 'ghosts') will have little interest in trying to use the Angel Cards to misguide its users, because all the cards are 'positive'! So it's a waste of their time even trying! So it's extremely unlikely they would bother.

Besides just the strong association of "Angels" as a fundamental concept behind the Cards, would have a strong deterrent quality. It's also likely that another group of Angels (the Angelic Kingdom is very large) might volunteer for Doreen Virtue's Angel Cards, if the original group of Tarot Angels decline.

So even in the possible case scenario that the Angel Cards are not protected or under the jurisdiction of the Tarot Angels, or any other Angels, the guides & helpers (here, we speak mainly of human extraphysical helpers, not those of the Angelic race, whom belong to a distinct evolutiological and planetary lineage from human souls) would gladly use this opportunity to, most likely through the subconscious mind of the Card Reader, channel through to manipulate or guide the results of the Angel Card readings.

Why would they do it? Because the guides & helpers are always on the lookout for ways to assist us, the intraphysicals. We are their intraphysical counterparts and colleagues. We're a multidimensional team. They help us and we help them, in our common goal of helping others in the world, in the spirit of CosmoEthics, in the Love for the Cosmos or All Beings.


So Rob and all interested in this topic, by my reasoning and opinion then, I do not personally see the need to ask Hilarion for any further clarification, because he's already stated that the Tarot Cards are safe and protected, and because the Angel Cards are the more recent/updated 'version', with new users largely using the Angel Cards instead, it's a safe conclusion that they work the same way.

It's also a second safe conclusion, IMO, that because of the elimination of the 'bad' cards from the Angel Cards, it makes it all the more safe to work with. It may lack the 'punch' of the capacity for warnings that the original Tarot system afforded, but its essentially the same service, only modified to a more 'client friendly' mode.


Love,
Kyo



Rob_Roy wrote on Jul 9^th, 2006 at 11:01pm:

Kyo, Since there seems to be a qualitative difference between the two types of cards, or possibly for the person using them, perhaps further, updated clarification from Hilarion would be appropriate? Love, Rob

Thanks Kyo.

Love,
Rob

You're most welcome, Rob.  :)

Love,
Kyo

What a great thread with nourishing replies and so much too talk about  :)

I'd just like to comment, as Kyo, did to Matthew's refreshing comment:

~~~~
Hey!  I just realized, my searches of consciousness don't employ any of Hilarion's five paths to knowledge (numerology, astrology, angel cards, etc.).  Oh well.  
Matthew
~~~~~

:)

These are seen as 'studying aids' that yes do add nourishment to a thirst however, we are equipped with this knowledge within us .. clear thoughts and a loving heart is exactly the same as the five (and more) paths.  If we look inside ourselves we will find knowledge and understanding and this inward gaze will shine outward and upward.  If the aids are needed they will come too you in a 'co-incidential' way.

augoeideian wrote on Jul 10^th, 2006 at 5:32am:

I'd just like to comment, as Kyo, did to Matthew's refreshing comment. These are seen as 'studying aids' that yes do add nourishment to a thirst however, we are equipped with this knowledge within us .. clear thoughts and a loving heart is exactly the same as the five (and more) paths.  If we look inside ourselves we will find knowledge and understanding and this inward gaze will shine outward and upward.  If the aids are needed they will come too you in a 'co-incidential' way.

Hello Augoeideian, and all,

A comment on your comment, but not particularly directed at it. Just using this as an opportunity to (again) explain and clarify this point.

Many people seem to be somewhat mistaken about, and overly concerned on, the issue about this, that might be implied in the statement "All answers can be found within, and that aids/tools/psychic readings are totally unnecessary."

This seems to stem from a fear, frustration, worry or sadness over the idea of people being overly reliant on external sources or tools (eg. Tarot Cards, Psychic Readings, etc) for their enlightenment or spiritual growth; worse, letting their personal power, personal free will and personal connection with higher self / God / true self, be undermined, subjugated and subverted, and handed over to the external aid/tool/guru instead. Worst of all, be consequently led astray down misguided paths into eventual spiritual destruction, so to speak.

I do not decry these concerns, certainly. My point is something *completely* distinct. Perhaps I'd explain it in the following way :

The concerns/fears/hatred regarding the idea of subjugating your personal power over to an external source, whilst born out of good intentions, can be slightly imbalancing to the extent of subtly causing many well meaning people to misinterpret or miss the point of a higher level or meaning of the use of helpful modalities. This condition is perfectly understandable and empathized, because not only is in today's preserenissimus humanity lacking in consciential/spiritual maturity to the extent that unevolved practices of corrupt practices/followings/religions subjugate one's personal power and connection to their true self, but in addition truly helpful higher tools or methods of evolutiological value that are simultaneously of a personally empowering quality (eg. the Hilarion Reading), are very much rare or lacking (to the point the more cynical assume these don't truly exist).

It is no wonder a natural and understandable reaction of most people would be to base their assessment/thoughts on the topic, on previous experiences, which are almost entirely negative. Dogmatic religion for instance. Many people fear/hate the spiritually damaging effect of dogma so much, they entirely miss the highest aspects of the various religions (eg. the energy and wisdom of the Christ, the Buddha, etc). But it is difficult to blame the people for their cynicism and prejudice, either.

In quite exactly the same way, when it comes to truly helpful self-empowering and personal-evolution-supporting tools, aids and sources of help (eg. Hilarion and the Hilarion Reading, or Inert Gas (Atlantean) technologies, etc) it is likewise understandable that many people automatically view these with cynicism, and allow the fear/anger/sadness of having one's own power subjugated to an external source, to cloud their capacity to recognize properly the true value of the tool / aid / source of assistance.

I certainly have no intention of getting upset or frustrated over the fear and false ideas mentioned above and decrying/denouncing them, or even of the notion of championing these sources of help to the world, get imbalancing for myself in exactly the same way that the fear/concerns/frustration of having one's one will subjugated to external sources, has also imbalanced the capacity to fully grasp the nature of truly helpful sources of help, that I've described in this post.

But what I *DO* endeavour to do, and what I'm doing now, is to attempt to communicate that truly helpful tools or sources of help (eg. the help your receive from your guides & helpers, from the Angels, from Hilarion and his Reading, etc) work in a COMPLETELY DISTINCT manner from corruptive, disempowering tools / methods / external sources that subjugate one's power and free will. The former category of help actually EMPOWER you and SERVE your own free will (directly or indirectly).

"But how will we know? How can we differential the false prohets/teachers from the genuine?" The answer to this is truly within. In fact (and this is also a corollary of the point I'm attempting so painstakingly to elucidate), ALL ANSWERS ARE ALWAYS WITHIN. The truly helpful tools or sources of help (eg. guides & helpers, angels, Hilarion, etc) NEVER PROPOSE TO GIVE YOU THE ANSWERS. They may address your questions or your issues (eg. in your prayer), but if you're observant enough, you notice that they NEVER tell you what to do. They may offer suggestions and advice, in exactly the way a teacher/tutor/professor would to a college student, but they NEVER subjugate your own personal power or free will.

What of technologies then? Such as the RIFE technology or the Inert Gas (Atlantean) technologies, which I've stated as examples of helpful technologies. Technologies work in a slightly different way. Much of the quality of the result of the application of various technologies, depends very closely on the intention of the users. Would you say the computer is a useful technology? Airplanes? Telephones? Lightbulbs? The radio? Engineering and architectural technology enabling the construction of modern cities, vehicles and computers?

One could indeed say that these technologies, when used appropriately with helpful intentions, are certainly serving one's personal power, one's personal free will, even if this is so, in an indirect fashion. Similarly then, are the tools of the Tarot, the Hilarion Reading, the help of the Guides & Helpers, the Angels, the Evolutionary Orientors and the Serenissimus.

So now we come to the determinant factor or 'acid test', of how one can ensure that one will only safely uses all tools and sources of help, without risk of subjugating one's own power and free will. It is called Discernment, and to be more specific, discernment on whether one's Free Will and one's personal Evolution (in hindsight or retrospect) is supported by the tool or source of help, or not.

Someone once asked Hilarion how to distinguish between a 'good' channeling/entity and a 'bad' channeling/entity. Hilarion's reply was a quotation of Jesus Christ (Sananda) : By their fruits ye shall know them.


I also posted a similar or related reply to LightR_on, Matthew and Mairlyn (in two separate posts), on the Hilarion Reading on this thread here :
http://www.afterlife-knowledge.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?num=1151676506


Quote:

It is not "looking outside for the answers", and indeed, the "higher-selves" and guides & helpers of those who go for the Hilarion Reading are always delighted, and themselves look forward to Hilarion Readings. Having a conversation (or a Qn & Ans session, which is basically what the Reading is about, rather than a one-way monologue) with Hilarion, is exactly akin to a college student seeking academic, career, or even personal advice, with a college professor or tutor. Would you see this as "looking outside for the answers"? And would the higher self and guides & helpers of a college student be likely to be violently protesting against the student approaching the college professor and asking for his advice? In addition, because Hilarion (a consciousness of a very, very high level of evolution, yet one which has much affection and caring for humanity; to the extent of volunteering to do personal Readings (the willingness of the channel Jon C Fox must also be acknowledged here) for any interested intraphysical incarnated person) always gives Readings in collegial collaboratve discussion with the individual's own higher self, guides & helpers (including both human and angelic ones, as well as (if necessary) one's Evolutionary Orientor), the higher self and guides & helpers are always eager and excited (quite so, in point of fact) when an individual does a Hilarion Reading, because as they see it, here is an opportunnity for them to speak through (the remarkably clear channel of Jon C Fox, as well as through Hilarion's words, which are spoken both for Hilarion himself and his own highly evolved perspective, as well as simultaneously on behalf of the individual's own guides & helpers), to the individual in a most clear, effective way. That is obviously and certainly not to say, that such a process (eg. of a Hilarion Reading) is meant to replace the individual's own connection and relationship to his/her higher self. Such an idea itself is not actually possible in any case, and may appear to be so *only* if the individual allows himself to think it so. You see, your higher self is YOU. YOU *are* your higher self. Nothing can stand between you and YOU, just as nothing can stand in the way between God (the essence of the higher self, just as the higher self is your (the incarnated personality's) essence) and every individual being or consciousness in the Universe. And what of one's connections with one's guides & helpers? The connection (as is your connection with your higher self) is one based on love at the innermost core, an unbreakable bond that certainly cannot be interrupted or compromised by any psychic Reading, external words, messages, events, incidents, anything or anyone.

and


Quote:

For the benefit of all who may be interested, a little bit of clarification is in order here. The Hilarion Reading, and indeed all psychic Readings of any kind, do *not* give you answers. They give you the *perspectives* of the entities being channeled (eg. Hilarion's perspective, and often, within the Reading, your guides & helpers come through as well with their perspectives). As I have repeatedly said, there is no right or wrong, and therefore no right or wrong answers. There are only *perspectives*. There are only degrees of CosmoEthicality. Therefore, ultimately, the Answers, will be what YOU choose for yourself. And this, can certainly ONLY come from Within. The same principle applies. Old Age wisdom might say, "Difficult pple/situations, and suffering, teach you the greatest lessons". This is limiting because it suggests the false idea that "suffering is good for the soul". New Age wisdom (at least the 'Kyo version' of New Age wisdom) instead clarifies. "It is your *willingness* to learn from *any* of your experiences, with *any* kind of pple/situation, as well as the (experience & process of) *Healing* of the suffering/false ideas/imbalance, and the TurnAround (Clarification) from suffering into greater Love (Truth), that offers you the opportunity to *teach yourself* the greatest evolutionary lessons." So others (whether it be experiences or other pple, even entities being channeled) do *not* teach you, YOU teach yourself (ie. *you* are always *your own* Teacher), and you do this from your own willingness to learn from your interactions with others, from your relationships, and from your own Love. And so, this is exactly what is happening with the Hilarion Reading. Neither Hilarion, nor your guides & helpers, nor your Angels, nor your Evolutionary Orientor, nor any Ascended Master, nor any other form of God no matter how highly evolved, can give you *your own* answers. They can only offer and share their personal perspectives, their suggestions, their understanding, their wisdom. Also note that (as per the purpose of Creation, for God to explore Her/Him/ItSelf as Love) as each and every being (ie. form of God) are special & unique, though essentially interconnected as One, the perspectives; therefore the perspectives, understanding and wisdom of each guide, helper, angel, evolutionary teacher (eg. ascended masters such as Hilarion, as well as your own Evolutionary Orientor) will be somewhat unique too (and that's a wonderful thing to be respected and celebrated! Everyone else is indeed your "Other Self" enjoying a wonderfully unique perspective!), so verily there is no right or wrong, there are no 'answers', there is only free will, and self-responsible free will at that.

augoeideian wrote on Jul 10^th, 2006 at 5:32am:

I'd just like to comment, as Kyo, did to Matthew's refreshing comment. These are seen as 'studying aids' that yes do add nourishment to a thirst however, we are equipped with this knowledge within us .. clear thoughts and a loving heart is exactly the same as the five (and more) paths.  If we look inside ourselves we will find knowledge and understanding and this inward gaze will shine outward and upward.  If the aids are needed they will come too you in a 'co-incidential' way.

Just to add as an epilogue (considering I posted a lengthy reply above, but neglected to address your comment more directly) :

The *implication* of your comment, that "If the aids are needed they will come to you", and that "however, we are equipped with this knowledge within us... clear thoughts and a loving heart is exactly the same as the five (and more) paths", needs to be addressed and clarified.

Firstly, ALL answers ALWAYS come from within no matter what, whether you use the Hilarion Reading, the Tarot Cards, the Ouija Board, or join an evil brainwashing cult and subvert your personal free will to the false guru and commit genocide, abuse and atrocities as a result. The only difference between the former and latter category, is that the former supports your free will, evolution and your own answers in a loving, clear, supportive way. The latter category (particularly the last one) invites you to align your free will and personal power with their own unevolved, anti-cosmoethical, fear-based and 'dark'/'evil' foolishness. It is still your own answers, but the answers come very painfully with much suffering, and wastes a lot of time (usually many lifetimes!).

Secondly, your comments seem to wrongly imply that the only if one is unable (for whatever reason), to obtain the "knowledge directly within" which is "always present", then these tools are of value. Not true. This is akin to saying if you're perfectly healthy and balanced, you should not have to use (or won't gain any further benefit from using) a telephone, a vehicle, or a computer. Or even to live in a house, or to wear clothes!

Tools or sources of help (eg. your family and friends), are all part of your own experience, your own answers, your own being. They serve you, just as you serve them. The mutualistic relationship between the intraphysicals and the extraphysical guides & helpers. Of course, there's also the extraphysical intruders and blind guides, with whom karmic interprisons is the nature of the relationship they have with participating intraphysical humans (by choice, whether witting or unwitting).

The HELP that comes from *tools* like the Tarot Cards, or the Hilarion Reading, are not within you per se, nor are they external from you. They are the result of the INTERACTION between yourself and the ones who wish to love and assist (eg. your guides & helpers, the Tarot Angels, and Hilarion, etc). Therefore, the value of these tools (ie. the TRULY helpful ones, use discernment, By Their Fruits Ye Shall Know Them) exist by the RELATIONSHIP and INTERACTION between yourself, and the helpful, loving beings who offer their help to you.

Therefore in conclulsion, please do not make the mistake of assuming that any of these tools (eg. your clothes, your friends, a computer, the Tarot Cards, the Afterlife Knowledge Forum, the Hilarion Reading, etc) are helpful ONLY if you are 'lacking' in yourself in some way. Not so.

You don't *have* to have clothes, friends, a computer, a deck of Tarot Cards, or visit the Afterlife Knowledge Forum, or do the Hilarion Reading, for sure, but they *can* be part of your personal answers, your free will, your personal power, your experiences, your interactions, your evolution, and your love.

kyo,

Are you Hilarion?

You promote his beliefs with such force, you would think you and he are one?

Are you?

Its dangerous you know to follow without question?

I think we have here the blind leading the blind!

LightR_on wrote on Jul 10^th, 2006 at 7:51am:

kyo, Are you Hilarion? You promote his beliefs with such force, you would think you and he are one? Are you? Its dangerous you know to follow without question? I think we have here the blind leading the blind!

I don't ask that you or anyone else obey Hilarion. I'm only informing people that I've found such-and-such helpful, and would like to point out that such an opportunity does exist.

By Their Fruits Ye Shall Know Them. If you've tried it and don't like the taste of the fruits, then go ahead and share your review with others. It's only fair to do so. But there's no need for reviewers to make personal attacks on each other.

i agree with everything you have said Kyo.  Thank you for your diligence in this matter, it has taken a lot of work.

Thank you so much Dear Augoeideian, both for your kind supportive comments, as well as for not misintepreting my two replies above as a personal attack. Because I certainly had no intention of directing my replies at anyone in particular; I was just using your post to reply as an opportunity to share my views on this matter.

Thanks again, and much love to you! :)
Kyo


augoeideian wrote on Jul 10^th, 2006 at 8:16am:

i agree with everything you have said Kyo.  Thank you for your diligence in this matter, it has taken a lot of work.

Dear Kyo and all,

I have been following this thread even though I have not had much time to post lately.  Kyo, I want to thank you for taking the time to create such loving and thoughful posts of clarification.

To me what all of this boils down to is the creative process within each of us.  In each and every moment of our existence we have external and internal influences all around and within us that seek the expression of movement in the form of our desires.  

Most of the time we desire to create things that we view as something better than what we currently have or have known in our past.  In this we are continually using our gift of discernment to judge whether or not something is better in our view.  In this process of continually making judgments for ourselves we have acquired the tendancy to project these same judgments out into the world, perhaps to hold these up in front of us to again begin the process of discernment and the creation of new desires based on the feedback the world presents to us.  

In all of this processing what may be helpful to one person, may not be helpful to another, however I do not believe that it is cosmoethically correct to place our own expectations onto someone else, but instead to allow each other to have their own freedom of following their own heart in choosing their own path.  Certainly each of us may speak our own truth with the intent of being helpful to someone, however I think we must also at the same time have loving acceptance, understanding and respect for the ideas, thoughts and choices of others.  And in so doing, we should choose our words and explanations as carefully and as lovingly as possible.  

Afterall, it usually is more love and understanding that each of us desires for our self and the way to create this is to allow our own love, patience, compassion, gentleness and understanding to well up from within in our ideas, thoughts, words and actions that we project into the world.

While I did not mention specifics spoken about in this thread, I have an article on my website that speaks to the desire as being the creative process of life itself for those that may be interested it is located here:  http://www.innervisionjournal.com/article_desire.htm

Love, Kathy

 

Thanks for that post, Kathy,

I think what many want on this board is a frank exchange of opinions about their own creative processes, without heavy reliance on an external source.  If debate occurs, as it must, I wouldn't want to be told by another that my belief should be considered in light of certain laws or metaphysics given down by a specific channeled entity (Seth, Elias, Hilarion, etc.).  I must say that I believe the personalities on this and Linn's board have a tremendous amount of love, power and experience amonst each other, and this is what most people want to hear/read when they come here.

Kyo is one of the nicest, most eloquent people on this board.  I love to read his posts.  If I disagree with something, of course I will let him know.  Same with you, Dave, Don (when he is here), Alysia, Mair, Augo, and many others.

The ouija board thread was an important one.  It made many people think.  More importantly, it brought out several posters' personal negative experiences, which validates Kyo's word of caution.

Matthew

Dear Kathy and Matthew,

Thank you both, for your willingness in sharing your perspective on this matter lovingly as you did, and for everything which you've said.


Love,
Kyo

a brief word about Hilarion in the positive sense. He is part of the Great White Light Brotherhood system of which Jesus heads up (ok, this is my belief, don't sue me)

I was a student within the Church of the Seven Rays back in the 60's and first became acqauinted with this entity through my pastor Rev. Bernard who channelled Hilarion and also got a reading from this pastor who would plug into Hilarion; Bernard also said he wasn't the only channeller of Hilarion, just one of them. so I feel I am connected to the Brotherhood from way back. I don't know Hilarion personally but Rev Bernard impressed me by the light in his eyes and his loving nature and when he channelled everyone got calm and inspired even though I didn't know much about the esoterics taught there so can't be a bad thing, anytime someone can quiet your energies and you feel love then.
This is just to say, the ascended masters won't let you idolize or become dependent on them emotionally, so not to fear the wisdom that comes from them as the teacher's job is to set the student free, not to bind them to teachings.
You can't go wrong to get a reading from Hilarion, no way possible. Kyo never tells a lie either. just my feeling about him.

blessings, alysia

Much love to you, Dear Alysia, as always :)

It is wonderful to share our creativity and our personal understanding of Spirit as everyone here has expressed.  We share our accumalted experiences; each bringing something different to the table.  A metaphor; these are the fruits that we bring to the table to share with each other,  a variety of fruits - different flavours, textures and tastes - various types but from the same genre of the fruit kingdom.

It is like the strawberry farmer; he comes with pride to the table with his season of fruit - he says look at my strawberries, i've been cultivating them with a new method i learnt, i've prepared the soil just right this season and we have been blessed with a good rainfall, please have a taste and see if they agree with your taste buds, do they fill your senses with joy? .. and the pineapple farmer brings his season of fruit to the table for everyone to taste ..

Some might taste a bit sweet for some and they prefer the more tangy flavour but they all add to the experience of tasting different flavours and textures.  Each knowing the fruits come from the same earth, watered by the same rain and shone on by the same sun.

Every now and then there will be rotten fruit, some with worms in it and sometimes this is only found out when the person has got to the core of the fruit.  What made this fruit rotten - the farmers say - well it did not quite catch the sunlight properly and it did not have enough protection or a strong enough skin and the worms got in.  What a shame and what a waste, they say, take the seed and re-plant it so it has a chance to fruit again this time in the right conditions.

This is a metaphor of us gathered here sharing our fruits that have taken a season or many seasons to get to this stage of ripeness; there is no other farmers in front of us we represent the farmer of today.

(lol i could get a bit carried away with this metaphor - it would make a nice story for children to identify with! and i hope it's added a bit of flavour to the discussion!)  

LightR_on must have posted just before my last post and i did not see it then .. that is a harsh statement, it is good to question but there is no need to be rude about it.  There is nothing wrong if Kyo is at One - this is a sign of enlightment a joining together of Spirit to become One.  It is hardly the blind leading the blind.  Kyo is honouring the branch of his fruit.

   

Dear Augoeideian,

Your metaphor story of the farmer, the farming process and the fruit, is really wonderfully creative! You've a real talent there!


Quote:

it would make a nice story for children to identify with!

You bet!!! Have you ever considered writing a children's spiritual storybook of metaphors? To share your gentle, loving wisdom with children? It would be such a wonderful spiritual effort! You'd most absolutely have the support of the guides & helpers! They would be just as thrilled with your effort! I'm serious about this! Please consider authoring a collection of children's spiritual storybook! I'd love to see you get one published!


Thanks again for sharing, Augoeideian! Much love to you, and I do hope to see you have a childen's book published someday! :)
Kyo

---------------------------------------------

Hmmm... come to think of it, I know Alysia has also written a book, and I'm also aware she has a wonderful loving empathic connection with children as well. Would Alysia also consider writing a spiritual children's book too?  ;)

Oh Kyo thank you for the inspiration .. i would love to write a children's book, already i picture the illustrations!! oh gosh maybe this could be my early retirement into a far more gentler work life.


Love to you  :)

I liked the farmer and fruit story too Auggie. we probably could use these kinds of books for children.

funny though, I feel like a child anymore. all those self retrievals from childhood feels like you are reborn when you do them and starting over. in my spirit I feel 19 now.
and I look past age when I meet with people. I look to their spirit age. what I found out is all of us are still children but we think we are not.
Kyo said:
Hmmm... come to think of it, I know Alysia has also written a book, and I'm also aware she has a wonderful loving empathic connection with children as well. Would Alysia also consider writing a spiritual children's book too?
___
Roadsign 25 is a bit childlike in my book, but I found a lot of people like this style of writing because it still embraces the wonder of a child, which as an adult we often lose the wonder. well, I hope my baby flies. I only know writing it all down, it makes it more real, what happened. hugs, nice thread here. alysia

Speaking of ouija boards, I had an OBE that I've shared before.

I floated down to the entrance way of a realm where beings lost in their own darkness existed. I felt no fear because I intuitively knew that they couldn't come and mess with me, because they could only leave when they asked for help and received assistance from light beings. I knew this automatically without having to think about it.

As soon the experience ended the "thought" came to me that sometimes they find their way out when somebody contacts them with an ouija board. I'm more certain about what I learned during the OBE than I am with this later "thought."

Hi Albert. regarding that perhaps something positive can happen with an ouiji board I suppose it depends on whether the subjects place protection around themselves first by knowing of the light and only have that intention to offer assistance to another person whether alive or in between worlds. this thing is that most people this enlightened are not going to be using the ouiji board at all. they most likely have other means of assisting others. but I can see what you're getting at, that an entity could be assisted to move to a higher plane of consciousness by the board player, if they told them they needed to move into the light, join others, etc. they might think they are still in physical reality.

in my case, I had not surrounded myself with anything like protection. I was gambling. I had attitude. I even said out loud, I don't care if you are high or low stature..show me you exist. hmm.  I'll leave the rest to your imagination.  no I'm not really sorry because I was so desperate to get my knowings and something came to my assistance in the end. but sometimes we feel like we can't get rid of negative influences but we can by calling on the power of what's in reference to one who conquered all fear, whether of death or something else. A jew in Palestine.
DP impressed me there was power by simply using his name and saying be gone. lo and behold, it did work! worked better than say BE GONE IN THE NAME OF ALYSIA! lol. my name was Rose then. I wonder how there can be such power of love in a mere name that you say outloud? I'll never know, but I'm certainly grateful that I got my knowings that day about the afterlife and also found out I'm part of the underground of J.  it makes you feel loved and maybe a lot of us are part of that movement. could be! that could only make me happier.
blessings, alysia

LaffingRain wrote on Jul 12^th, 2006 at 8:23pm:

but sometimes we feel like we can't get rid of negative influences but we can by calling on the power of what's in reference to one who conquered all fear, whether of death or something else. A jew in Palestine. DP impressed me there was power by simply using his name and saying be gone. lo and behold, it did work! I wonder how there can be such power of love in a mere name that you say outloud? I'll never know, but I'm certainly grateful that I got my knowings that day about the afterlife and also found out I'm part of the underground multiconsciential multidimensional transtemporal assistantial collegial higher establishment guide-helper network of J...

Yes, there is tremendous power of Love in his Name, because he is Sananda :
http://infinity.usanethosting.com/Heart.Of.God/Hilarion/DarkBrothers/index.htm

multiconsciential multidimensional transtemporal assistantial collegial higher establishment guide-helper network of J...

you know Kyo, that has a much nicer ring to it than the underground! I don't think I can memorize it well though but I'm smiling.. :D  the only reason I said underground is because I was born this life not wanting anything to do with organized religion..DP had a heart breaking experience with baptizing natives and he just couldn't deal with any religious organizations after that. however, we both have only the warmest feelilngs for J, even a longing to be with him once more. it would be like coming home.

thank you Kyo for all you've posted here. I've benefited a great deal. love, alysia

And may I also express my appreciation for you (and your unique & delightful loving vibrations), it's truly wonderful having you (and *always* ;) having you), Alysia, as a dear friend! Mucho Luvo to you, alwayz!

Hello Alysia:

I don't believe I suggested that an ouija board can be used in a positive way. I suggested that sometimes a spirit stuck in a dark realm can find its way out if somebody contacts them with an ouija board. Perhaps I need to learn to write better.



LaffingRain wrote on Jul 12^th, 2006 at 8:23pm:

Hi Albert. regarding that perhaps something positive can happen with an ouiji board I suppose it depends on whether the subjects place protection around themselves first by knowing of the light and only have that intention to offer assistance to another person whether alive or in between worlds. this thing is that most people this enlightened are not going to be using the ouiji board at all. they most likely have other means of assisting others. but I can see what you're getting at, that an entity could be assisted to move to a higher plane of consciousness by the board player, if they told them they needed to move into the light, join others, etc. they might think they are still in physical reality. in my case, I had not surrounded myself with anything like protection. I was gambling. I had attitude. I even said out loud, I don't care if you are high or low stature..show me you exist. hmm.  I'll leave the rest to your imagination.  no I'm not really sorry because I was so desperate to get my knowings and something came to my assistance in the end. but sometimes we feel like we can't get rid of negative influences but we can by calling on the power of what's in reference to one who conquered all fear, whether of death or something else. A jew in Palestine. DP impressed me there was power by simply using his name and saying be gone. lo and behold, it did work! worked better than say BE GONE IN THE NAME OF ALYSIA! lol. my name was Rose then. I wonder how there can be such power of love in a mere name that you say outloud? I'll never know, but I'm certainly grateful that I got my knowings that day about the afterlife and also found out I'm part of the underground of J.  it makes you feel loved and maybe a lot of us are part of that movement. could be! that could only make me happier. blessings, alysia

sorry Albert. I was just doing my own personal interpretation there as I thought about that some good could come out of the use of any means if we've a mind to make it so and I visualized a person doing this with the board, that it could happen we do retrievals without even knowing we're doing that.
I think you express yourself very well. I much admire you and for a long while your ability to express ideas so well. I do takes off people, may have nothing to do with their viewpoint. I do this all the time as people cause me to catch rotes and the rotes just keep going and going and going.....

I wanted to relate Sir Hillary whom I met on the ouiji board during this experience I told about. Sir Hillary needed retrieving. but I was very young and knew nothing of the business of retrievals. Sir Hillary I am positive did not follow me home that night as I had thought he did. this story should actually go on the thread Visit to Hell.
Sir Hillary told me he wandered in darkness as he had been blinded in a sword fight.
I was alarmed, not only to be speaking with a spirit, but he was in dire circumstances. briefly, my best friend had mediumistic abilities and we opened ourselves up to channeling. I failed to channel, but he promptly conked out and Sir Hillary came through just long enough to tell me his sad story of which I could offer no assistance. I think this was a positive experience for me as it got me started examining the afterlife, it pointed me in the direction. My friend promptly disowned me as I told him what happened and he had been asleep the whole time. he was petrified of the area we were headed into. I never saw him again but I totally understood his position that I was the one who had brought the accursed board over. but I was flipping to pursue knowledge of this sort. this story is no reflection from your thoughts Albert, I am just a babbler on this board my dear, telling my stories in hopes others can benefit and frankly, you inspire me too in positive directions. to make a long story short, I felt sad for Sir Hillary and knew there must be others in his position who wandered and could not see, or I thought perhaps I have tapped into a hell region? Sir Hillary was no demon and I have never met anything truly evil out there and really have no interest in doing so, I only want to conquer every fear I have or might have and don't think I have to conjure up demons to conquer fear; driving in san diego is bad enough to conquer.

that aside, Sir Hillary was an ordinary bloke practicing the art of sword fighting. savages were they! maybe he's in my disc? anyhoo, at one point down the road I got curious about him and went to check up on him, do a retrieval perhaps. I found him through imagination and let him speak to me. he had regained his eyesight!! this is what I had hoped he would, and I had been thinking subconsciously when I had first met him on the ouiji, I remembered wondering why he was out of body and thought that he was blind. he told me the blade had went through his eyes, and I was thinking but you're dead now, you don't have to be blinded now, to believe that this is so.
but this day when I spoke with him he sat on his steed in the astral fit as a fiddle and I asked do you wish to remain here? he was quite content. I am not one to retrieve anyone if they like where they are and are happy. he lived the life that was all he knew and who am I to say another way is better?

blessings to you Albert. my journey seems to be leading away from this board someday I want to make sure everyone I'm attached to emotionally, that I tell them how I appreciated them and how I've grown here in spirit.
love, alysia

Quite alright Alysia.   :)

You know, I heard that everytime somebody uses a smiley face and angel gets its wings. So here  :) :) :) :) :)

[smiley=bath.gif] [smiley=2vrolijk_08.gif] [smiley=vrolijk_26.gif] [smiley=lolk.gif] [smiley=vrolijk_1.gif]  this is my right brained reply to Albert. I hope I am not taking up too much cyberspace.

 Wrote this awhile ago for Linn's site, about Ouija boards, somewhat pertinent to this conversation:

I basically agree with CW, Mair, and Alysia about the above...but could it be a little more involved..? Had a couple thoughts about Ouija, relating it to collective thought-form energy and resonant attraction laws...

Its kinda like when we say, the spirit of America, the spirit of the Celts, the spirit of Latino's etc.? What do they mean...they're kind of generalizations, like people descended from strong Celtic blood have a tendency towards high energy, creativity, hard-headedness/combativeness, and psychicness...Or America has a general aura of EXTREMISM (both very material and very spiritual) around it...

But generalizations though they may be, isn't there some average truth to it. I've noticed that a lot of caucasians with Fire sign risings for example, tend be be Celtic looking i.e. freckles/light skin, round alpine heads, strong or at least wiry muscular, and like what their Fire rising sign indicates--often FIERY emotionally (even more so then their Sun sign counterparts). I can attest to this, i have a Leo rising and I certainly have more than a bit of tendency towards short-temperedness, though i never stay mad for more than a few minutes (am mostly of scottish descent and look stereotypically "Scottish" reddish beard and all, and i have the whole British Isles thrown in, some German, and some Native American). But, like astrology, these are just innate tendencies, probably ones i was well aware of before i was born, and chose this body for these particular tendencies (this relates to the astro chart too)...

I think this applies to Ouija boards in a way, because they have been around for a while, and were especially prevalent during the spiritualistic era of the late 1800's and early 1900's where people tended to be a little bit sensationalistic, and smitten with the dark and/or occult (hidden) forces.. So, having so many people use the Ouija boards in a certain general manner for so long, magnitizes a certain collective energy to Ouija boards, or eventually forms something like, "the spirit of Ouija"..

So when someone from our day and age, uses an Ouija board, because of the collective thought-form around the Ouija, someone would be more prone to attract ignorant or even blatantly negative energies...but of course the knowledgable and well prepared to could counter act that influence...

Like in certain physics theories, when we call something material, like say..calling an apple an apple, you are really saying a particular pattern of vibrational energy with a different and relative relationship to other consciousnesses, so when someone sees, eats, EXPERIENCES an apple, they're really tapping into a certain consciousness of which the apple is the symbolic representation visually and materially.... So each thing, even "dead" ouija boards have an aura, a certain general consciousness around it, and this has its own tendencies to act in a certain way in a particular environment.

I am way behind on this thread, so I thought I'd jump in with my own experiences with ouji.
My most recent one was with my sister. We were playing and someone kept saying things that were sometimes funny and weird.
So we asked for a name, he gave the name "Amun" suddenley one day he said "B**ch"
My sister and I looked at each other and she said "who are you talking too?" He said you!
I would never play it with her again, also there was a terrible oder that came too me. My sister couldn't smell it but I did. You don't know who could be speaking on one of those things.

Eggshellseas, how long ago was this experience?  Did the odor come at the time it happened?  How would you describe the smell?  

I played with one once when I was a teenager but never did it again.  

Vicky wrote on Jul 17^th, 2006 at 12:10am:

Eggshellseas, how long ago was this experience?  Did the odor come at the time it happened?  How would you describe the smell?   I played with one once when I was a teenager but never did it again.

This happened about a year ago. Yes the oder came at the time he spoke with us on the board. It smelled horrible like something dead.

I played with one as a teenager too, but nothing like that happened. It told stuff though back then, things really happened that it told.

When my husband and I were married, we lived in an apartment for 2-1/2 years.  After we moved we learned that the people who lived there before us were into rituals and "dark magic" and the like, performed ceremonies or whatever in that place.  I never believed in that stuff and still don't really, I don't know much about it and don't want to.  But I have to admit, we had some horrible paranormal experiences there, one of which was a horrible smell like a dead body (not that I've ever smelled that before but I assumed).  I do have to believe that whatever rituals were performed there is what caused our paranormal activity.  This stuff is real.  Unfortunately, if someone intends negative, evil, dark intentions they can manifest.  Not that this has to do with ouija boards, as most of the time people play with them for fun, not for intending darkness.  

Vicky wrote on Jul 17^th, 2006 at 1:33am:

When my husband and I were married, we lived in an apartment for 2-1/2 years.  After we moved we learned that the people who lived there before us were into rituals and "dark magic" and the like, performed ceremonies or whatever in that place.  I never believed in that stuff and still don't really, I don't know much about it and don't want to.  But I have to admit, we had some horrible paranormal experiences there, one of which was a horrible smell like a dead body (not that I've ever smelled that before but I assumed).  I do have to believe that whatever rituals were performed there is what caused our paranormal activity.  This stuff is real.  Unfortunately, if someone intends negative, evil, dark intentions they can manifest.  Not that this has to do with ouija boards, as most of the time people play with them for fun, not for intending darkness.

I think my sister for whatever reason attracted him. I've never meddled into anything for any dark reason myself, Though, I've read some wiccan stuff recently. I'm just opening my awarness is the way I look at it As a christian believer before I never would have thought of it. I looked the name up in the enclyclopidia Amun, its some egyptian God. Later through the years they attached the name Ra with it, I'll avoid the Ra talk now I think ;)