Hi everybody,
last night it happened, my first classic OBE, it started with a dream:

I went to bed, and as usual let my thoughts run, mind awake, body asleep. I then thought of R.A.Monroe, and to my surprise I saw his face very clearly right before me, similar as I had seen it on a photograph (never met him physically). This was unusual, in my "normal" mind journeys I had met him (or imaginated it) only occasionally. This time we talked for a while, can't say exactly what it was. The feeling I picked up from him was that much was going on in his mind but he said not much, but what he said was right to the point, he let me think first and gave his comment then, in a bit ironic but honest and lovely way. Also I felt a great self-centeredness, in the positive meaning, as he was very clear and serene. He had sharp long wrinkles at his forehead and had this beard between upper lip and nose.
Then I must have fallen asleep.

I found myself in a big city, a different one than my hometown. I had travelled there to meet some people of TMI, but couldn't recall what it was exactly. I then stood before a building where this TMI meeting was, together with another guy with whom I talked a bit. Then he said he must go to bed, because the program will start tomorrow early in the morning. I realized I wasn't a participant in this program he mentioned, and I wondered why I traveled here. Only to chatter some minutes with that guy? Or have I been at this meeting already but only forgot it? As I stood there, in a little sidestreet, I noticed a stand with poster-sized pictures, like a flipchart. I looked closer, and I flipped the pictures on it. It were handmade paintings, very colorful. One showed a group of people sitting in a circle. I had the impression that a female person must have painted these pictures for the TMI, and they were standing there as a sign where the program/meeting was taking place. Then I went off.

I was in a hotel in the same city where I left before the TMI place. In the lobby there was a night-porter, dressed in a uniform like a security guy and besides him a pitbull dog. Must be a bad quarter here when they show up like this I thought. I moved ahead to go to my hotel room when I wondered if I had already my door key, and where my room was? So I asked the porter, and he gave me a key and guided me. I noticed I was carrying a basket, and in this basket another pitbull dog was sitting! I placed the basket on something, and the dog jumped out and wanted to play with me, which I did. But I worried about that these dogs can bite quite a lot and that it's not right to leave them run around here freely. Meanwhile, the porter showed me a paper plan, where the rooms were drawn on and pointed at my room on the paper, then he pointed at the door of my room in the actual hall.

I was lying (on my right side) on the bed in my hotel room, looked against the wall. No furniture, no pictures, an old wallpaper with a faded pattern. I was becoming to feel strange here. I didn't remember why I was here, nor where I was exactly (I still knew all that has happened in this dream, but that was not much). I closed my eyes, and when I opened them again, I was in my own bedroom in my appartment, lying on my own bed, looking over my room with it's many things inside. I was relieved, "I've already guessed that it was just a dream, everything's allright." I closed my eyes, opened them again and I was back in the hotel room! I was so scared, the reality had broken down! I for sure was going insane! I did it again, and the same happened. (Please note that I was convinced that this was NOT a dream!) Then something even more odd happened: With my left eye I saw my own room and with the right eye I saw the hotel room! I concentrated on my left eye and made the right eyes' view somehow fading away. I saw clearly my own familiar room. All the many things which were there. Near to my bed there was a plastic bag, made of very thin plastic foil. It dawned to me what that all could mean. Still lying on my bed on my right side, I reached out with my left arm and tried to grab the plastic bag. My hand moved through it! But when I attempted to grab it, it moved a bit as if touched by a little breeze. I looked at my arm and hand, and it looked as it always looks. I then tried to reach the chair which was beyond an armlength and couldn't reach it, but I couldn't see my hand anymore as I stretched it out to the chair. Then my arm and hand became visible again. I then looked down directly below my left eye and saw another left arm of mine. Looked the same as my active arm. I then moved my active arm to a stack of magazines beside my bed and pressed my hand on it. In the beginning it felt like solid, as in normal physical reality, but then I pressed harder and my hand went into the magazines stack! When I moved my hand more down inside the stack I could feel from time to time a stronger resistance, as if I could feel the material. Boy was that odd! I pulled my hand out of the stack and tried to touch my head (or where I thought my head has to be), my view blacked out briefly but I felt nothing. I then decided I had to write this down and to awake fully in the physical. It was a short break in the moment I opened my physical eyes, and in my view was exactly what I had seen before, as if you would blend identical pictures, the only difference was that it now was a bit brighter and more colorful. It was morning, and since I laid myself down to sleep 2 and a half hours were gone.
I had to think about this the whole day long.

There were some unusual things happening the days before which I hope I can post the next days.

Some may be a bit confused what I mean with "classic OBE" and what I mean with "mind journeys". Here's what I mean: In a mind journey I am aware of my physical body as well as what I'm doing nonphysically, with my mind or imagination. I can phase back immediately to full waking consciousness. Also, it is possible to use a voice recorder during mind journeys and tell into the microphone what you're doing (though I personally don't like that, but it's a question of practice I guess). Now in a classic OBE you can't do that, you are much more cut off from your body, instead you seem to have another body. Also, the surrounding looks like the physical without any effort to concentrate on it. It's just there, while in a mind journey you have to be much more focused and proactive to get such seemingly independent details in one view.

Spooky

whoooooohooooooooo Spooky! what an adventure. it reminds me of several of my own I might share to see the commonalities.
Dictionary description (german) doppelganger = your double, your counterpart.

in astral travel in the old days they called it your doppelganger as its a duplicate of yourself in form and contains your thoughts and feelings. beside yourself is another example of people using language to understand something like holographics and duality in our world, as the left brain has a function of its own, so does the right side of the brain. it has been said we have seven bodies; the first three are physical, emotional (astral stands for emotional) mental. I'd have to do some studying to relate the other bodies we can use, or maybe we have a knowledgable person here could give us a rundown.

when I used to have frequent vibrations of lift off or descent into my flesh I didn't know what to think beyond pure fascination. I actually thought my counterpart was spirit related and not my own doing. somebody else was inducing the vibrations I thought and I have not given permission. this of courses causes fear, yet further fascination with the separation experience. basically I learned I was far too adventurous to allow fear to make decisions for me and I think a lot of us are adventurous and its a good thing to become a fearless creature me thinks! it just takes sooooo long to become brave! :-/  (20 years plus)  I know theres youngsters out there will surpass my best efforts!  and can't wait to read them.
most of the books I've read on astral traveling concern the areas belief system territory, perhaps focus 23 or 27. I believe these are emotional areas. the higher levels are by using the mental body (my opinion) I think you do phase and thats using the mental body, but in the beginning (my opinion only) we all explore the astral levels first to get our bearings. yet I don't think theres a clear definition line between an emotional and mental combination level, more gradual overlapping of these areas or a merging field as awareness expands.

I once was discoincided in bed also, beside myself. thrilled me actually. I turned over in bed, then woke up and noticed I was still in the same position, thought to myself, hold on, I know I just turned over, why is my body still facing the wall? with non physical eyes I noted I had two bodies, one was towards the wall, knees drawn up, the other faced the other direction, also with knees drawn up; I asked myself will the real me please announce itself? lol...so "I" thought, well, hmm, one is appearing more solid than the other but both are me and I knew I had turned over in bed and I knew this was my astral body by now. I believe I had been desiring more contact with it for awhile and this induced the experience.

I saw an image of Monroe in my mind some years back too. yes, he was lovely; I basked in his attentions and none can take this experience from me, as it was so natural, like a friend stopping in for a pot of tea, nothing could be made of it other than the friendly feelings. once I make a friend, I never forget my friends. they are the only thing that I will take with me when I go. I see you are friends with him too and I'm not surprised. its good to know he's still around.

a brief word about dogs. because its a dual world our minds are split. all of us possess the capacity to bite if pushed too far. also a dog is used to protect people. the pitbull I think is a symbol you display to yourself that you wonder if it's safe to be exploring outside the body although you seem to worry for no reason as you are inherently just playing freely in your world, not biting. to be this free concerns you. your guides are there to give you the key and to point out your room.
u mention the unusual things that happened in the days before and I think this is directly related to your obe. it is classic obe and I enjoyed reading it as I knew you were more than capable. [smiley=thumbsup.gif] [smiley=2vrolijk_08.gif] [smiley=engel017.gif] [smiley=dankk2.gif] [smiley=beer.gif] [smiley=vrolijk_26.gif]

These are beautiful descriptions, Spooky and Alysia!  They deserve to copied into our notebooks of "great significance."

Spooky, will this effect the way you go about other 'travels', say to a retrieval or a partnered exploration? Or do we use different layers of this 7 layer system Alysia has pointed out, or different senses in our different endeavors?

(Clerical interruption, please. Sorry to interrupt, spooky, the date on the PE in that section is in error. Today the 8th is the second Saturday already.  :-[ )

Well done Spooky!!

I loved reading your experience, it sounded fun and a bit of a mind blower with seeing different rooms out of each eye!

I tend to do OBE's more than mind journeys, but need to practise them more. Have you had many OBE's before?

Love the thoughts on the different areas and bodys Alysia, have never thought of it like that, it makes sense and all fits nicely.

My usual exits of the body when i first started OBE's were the rolling out method, i use to know i was out when i rolled and then i sunk through the bed or gently floated down to the ground like a feather and slowly bounced of the carpet, i loved it!

Ryan

Hi Spooky It must have been a great experience for you ,i would like to try but i havent got the nerve to do that yet ,but i will one day.When i close my eyes at night i do see a lot of spirit faces  and visions of different places and scenery ,and last night someone was touching my arm and then holding my hand,i know thats my father watching over me. Love and god bless you juditha

What an interesting OBE Spooky. I especially liked you seeing one room with one eye and the other room with your other eye. I've never read anything like this before. :o

Love, Mairlyn ;-)

Thank you all! Yes an adventure it is, absolutely.

Although this sort of reality breakdown when the rooms swapped wasn't funny at all when it happened, you know me, I'm curious, and in my next relaxation/meditation I tried to go OBE again! There was this vibration/electric feeling, but when I tried to move my left arm very slowly and patiently, at a point I noticed my physical body would move, couldn't separate the other body. I'll see what future brings.

Yes Alysia, Doppelgänger is a familiar German word (litterally translated: doublewalker), it means a person who looks the same like yourself, usually used when it's not a twin, or when the other person is not known to be your twin.
The different "bodies" is a concept I thought of. There's some things which seems to me not "right", I want to say I resonate not fully with it, it's a subject of research for me. For example, in some of my mind journeys I went "down" again, expressing my wish to explore the plane(s) very near to the physical. I then got a mix of what looks physical, together with people who were not physically alive but inhabitated still the physical (and some colored radiation and those things). However, these visuals were much different from my OBE. In the OBE it was as if looking with the physical eyes including the same feeling to be "in" it like in the physical, while in my mind journey it was like looking with the mind's eye, similar like having a daydream. Is it possible to perceive the same near-physical levels in different ways, one coming from somewhere "above" (mind journey), the other one from coming from the physical (OBE)? And what would that mean in terms of the 7 bodies concept? LOQ (Lot of questions, lol)
There's a particular question Alysia I have concerning your experience with the two bodies in your bed. It sounds as if you somehow were in a position outside your two bodies in your bed, in a observer's position. Did I understand you right?
I remember a situation about four years ago, I was asleep bodily, just woke up mentally from a dream and that wonderful cool feeling in my entire body, when I noticed "someone" was in my room, or better I knew it. I stayed bodily asleep and decided to observe (which was strange enough that I managed it to hold the fear down), and this "someone" came closer and closer. Then I was in a similar mode like I am in my mind journeys. I "saw" my position in my bed, it was like I reconstructed it and then saw it, and the someone came from behind near to my body (but who/what it was was not perceivable to me). I heard this someone breathing behind me, then melting with me. Then I decided to wake up my body to write this impressive experience down. Now, when you look at it, there's something which seems not to fit together: If this someone was one of my doubles, shouldn't my position of awareness be located there? Instead, it was located in or near my physical body in my bed, even when I was in "mind journey mode". (I don't think that it was a different earthbound entity which managed it to get into my physical body, the melting felt just too natural, it felt right.) Or have these doubles all a life of it's own and sort of gather together when it's time for the meal and then separate again? Well LOQ...
Alysia your interpretation of the dogs makes sense to me!

Betson, in theory, in approach, it would not change my mind journeys, retrievals for example, but in practice, what will happen in the future I cannot say. I can imagine (and believe) it could have an effect (especially if I will have more OBEs in the future) concerning the ability to realize in which level you are, in the quality of perception as well as bridging my mind journeys stronger to the physical, and in turn, the physical to the nonphysical experiences.

Ryan, I would call it my first OBE, but I had this experience with that "someone" entering my room as I told above, and one time when awaking from sleep I could see my room, but with closed eylids, when I realized it I immediately woke up physically, it probably was something like the beginning or end of an OBE.

Juditha, I think I occasionly have something like you told of, running visuals, but the visuals are changing very fast, I can't hold them. This in my terms I would locate somewhere between mind-journeys and OBEs, a state of openness to messages of spirits and/or events. To feel like being touched, that is I guess something what is "near" to an OBE, as it seems that your focus of awareness was at your etheric body- but I'm not really certain about it. I don't think OBEs are essential for the work of a medium, but guess it could be useful.

Mairlyn, I for sure too haven't heard about that!

Spooky

hello dear Spooky gosh its fun talking about obes and mind journeys but a little hard to describe. I have a different philosophy than yours as everything is real to me, everything is real and everyone who shares an experience with us here to me is a real one. at the same time theres a level, or a belief I have that we go into our lives and are making up our lives as we go, and also when we are feeling separated from the flesh body and/or the 5 physical sense and using some type of other awareness for our surroundings to see. another way of saying this is we project our reality out there with the mind and then physically we step into what we have projected on the screen of our mind movie.

this philosophy that we are making it up as we go gives me a great feeling of freedom I wish I could share with everyone I meet, because literally the world is our oyster then to say I can do, be, express, live, die, as I so choose as all of us are in process of making it how we shall have it.

back to obes...the one where I turned over and discovered two bodies, both me. it seems classical to me also. how I made it happen, I went to bed each night with intention to obe..I was destined to fail at obe as I never set a location where to obe, and what if..indeed...there is no location to obe to? because life is a movie in the mind of spirit?  ok, back to the obe....sometimes during the night or morning I woke up. or I thought I was awake and in my body. i remembered at once that I had set an intention to obe and I must have failed again as now here Iwas in the body :P so I thought, I'll just turn over now and change position. the body doesn't want to stay in one position all night. ok, I was in the body and awareness was there; I felt myself turn over and it felt a physical sensation of the rolling motion...at one point I thought as I roll over I'll just roll off the bed too and do an astral journey maybe, but I didn't keep rolling, just remained on the bed. part of me was remembering my intention but probably not believing I could just roll out of my body and keep rolling :-? then I became even more lucid and awake to consider I was experiencing my double in a position opposite to my physical position. but my awarenss was in the body not floating above looking at the scene in this case. I did ask myself why both of these bodies were myself. I can only consider we are made out of mind stuff. and are creators this way.
we form with thought around us a body. the physical form is made for us by our parents but I think we discuss what form to have before birth with the parents.
then we have this emotional body form too; this is unique to us to be building this other body. then we have our deepest thoughts of mental. we can use mental vehicles formed from our imagination. if there is a location as of spatial dimension to surf to, I believe that all of us together creates such a location and have agreed to call this another reality to have our being within. Cozzolinio calls it consensus agreement.
so we could have these belief system territories by agreement. we can maintain individuality also i believe but we can change our forms to fit/suit our fancy on the other side. there is a lady I heard about changes her hair style every week in the afterlife..its sort of like that, except on a deeper level you can change your mind every week about who you are.
I'm sorry, I'm rambling!! lol!!  these are my beliefs but I am not finished creating myself in this life, so sorry if I confuse everyone.

hugs, alysia

Hey,

I've been reading Robert Monroes books a lot recently and I think it was his second one in which he found he had 2 etheric bodies when going OBE, the first one was just like an alligment one? A in-between body for his physical body and etheric body. He moved into this aligment one to seperate and then once seperated he could move to the etheric/astral body and explore. Has anyone experienced this before?

I must go look into this more after what you guys have been saying, I have never seen any of my doubles, well i saw it once in a mirror on my first OBE experience, but I wasn't in a real-time OBE so it was my imagination probly. It looked physical, just without a head! I have seen my physical once when i was OBE but it was dark. I didn't notice an alligment or any other double bodies there. But i don't normally check, maybe I should do. There are so many things to do, The list is getting bigger!

Ryan

Greetings,
I asked Guidance about this and got that at about age 43 (?) one 'layer'/'entity' of our many-entitied system, perhaps the astral, is worn out so a new one replaces it. Some people are sensitive to the process and notice, but it's done at night or rest so as not to disrupt us.
I would have asked about other aspects of Spooky's experience, but when I asked about how many of these we have (2? 7? more than 10?), Guidance got disgusted with me thinking the numbers game meant I was greedy and wanted more, more!  I said no, it was just curiosity, that I just wanted to learn about how many to learn how they worked and 'who' they were. Fade-out.

Alysia,

Doppelganger-hmmm. I’m feeling so lost right now after the adventures of the past few months and having no clear direction regarding what to do next so when I finally looked in on the board this morning, I was surprised to see the word Doppelganger jump out at me.  Brings a little magic back into my life since Saturday when I was watching some PBS show and a linguistic expert was discussing words some of us don’t know the meaning of.  When she defined Doppeganger in her 5 minute discussion, all I could think of was that I must mention this to Alysia.  Friday you responded to Spooky’s wonderful post, Saturday I caught the word and thought of you and by Sunday I read your definition and am responding  For me, this is another example of how we are all connected.  

When I was in a coma in May, one of my experiences included the offer by a person who reminded me of Opra, that if I wanted to test my courage, a concern I harbor, would I be willing to take the place of another individual on the other side of the world who was in the process of being captured for slavery by the side of a railroad track, I think I experienced a good death there.  I remember agreeing to do this and getting the job done with courage but I wonder now if this is an example of work done by a  doppelganger? I’m a little embarrassed to mention the second part of the deal, that I was assured to coming back here would be easier for me in the next phase of my life, because my belief system still tends to include life is a struggle.  So far, I’m just as confused as I ever was as I face going back to my previous routine at work but a part of me feels more confident regarding challenges.

Jean    

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/spiritvideo/Alysia/c3f03cec.jpg


posted this image for fun; would have liked it for my cover, but we came up with a good cover already. I count 3 bodies here in the pic but the allusion is of more than 3. if someone here is into holographic principle I'd appreciate their dialogue to learn about this. the idea I have budding is; they took a photo and its old and tattered and torn. first they made a negative of it. somehow this restores the original as the negative fills in the missing patterns from the lost or torn piece. so even if the image you can't see, behind the image lies a pattern of connecting points; a memory in other words which can produce the manifestation of the wholeness pattern.

Ryan, I've heard of the etheric body, it was told to me the etheric is the closest body to the physical, like a mirror image made of ectoplasm...the stuff that mediums used to use to allow a spirit manifestation in a darkened room, so that the retina of the eye could record its presence. etheric body to my understanding is not the same as the astral body which is the emotional body. (I believe) I remember reading Monroe's description. I wish I had kept his books. I guess I move around too much and lose stuff, thank you for sharing what you read. please continue if you will.

Jean, I'm glad you feel good enough to start posting again, as I remember trying to find you and ask you to post again. I think people enjoy hearing from you and I know I do! I was getting the feeling you might have done a past life retrieval while you were in a coma physically. this is how we bring all our many selves into alignment, preparing for blast off planet Earth, ascension.  of course, it must always be about courage.
theres this woman, every night she goes to sleep, she wakes up in another person's body..then every morning she wakes up, feeling like she's living another life at night as this other person. far out huh? two lives, two bodies, one spirit, one soul, united under god, indivisible as one...hmmm. sorry, I just started doing the allegience to the flag I think. hugs and blessings. alysia

wanted to add a thought to Spooky's description of merging with the double which walked up behind him but it felt natural, the merge.

in the beginning of obe experiences I too felt the presence of my other body to be a spirit separate from me. I think this is natural to feel this way at first as it is strange to be so disassociated from one's own self. remember Monroe thought there was something seriously wrong and went to doctors to learn of what was happening to him.

I remember looking at myself also and communicating with myself. its so unforgettable it  blows your mind.  

Jean, I remember being in almost a coma like condition a few years back and I felt the way you do now, that I could face the challenges better after getting well. or a calmness was upon me. maybe u have been gathering strength out there. did you have more memory of more mind journies during this time? would be glad to hear about it. love, alysia

I've been reading a lot about OBE's. I'm quite interested in them, but for some reason the idea of it scares me at night and sometimes I have a hard time sleeping because I am afraid of myself losing control. I think it's also because I've read weird stories about how one can face problems during OBE's like being stuck in a window or the body not able to wake up for sometime while one is conscious. How does one conquer his or her fears of an OBE? How do I relax enough to allow myself to do such a thing? I really want to be able to go past reading stories and experiencing them for myself.

you might try picturing yourself in one of the rooms of your house where you feel comfortable. maybe in your favorite chair relaxing. its less fearsome to obe around the house than flying in space somewhere..at first. this is what some books will say to keep it simple. add to that image a feeling..maybe a feeling of wonder..can you do it? what would it feel like to do it? the more you can imagine, the more chance you have to have successful obe.

hugs, alysia

Hey,

I think Alysia hit it right on the nail there but just wanted to add about getting stuck, theres no chance, usually at first it wont last long as its new and your not sure how to control it so you will find your self back in your body way too soon than you wanted! But all you have to do is think of returning to the physical or concentrating on moving a physical part and this will snap you back.

Like I said though, when you make it and experience it you will be enjoying it and it will be new  and exciting so much you will probly have to be forced back rather than choose too! And as far as everything i have read, heard, understand and experienced you can't just stay out there for a couple of weeks for example then return, even though i think i probly would if i could lol, your always brought back.

Ryan

might add a little more about these kinds of trips...they always came involuntarily..had no control whatsoever..but Monroe learned how and a few other authors have them frequently, basically under their control....the reason is because involuntary behavior exists in the subconscious and we're on a mission more or less to make knowledge come into our conscious mind, at least on this forum; that seems to be the case I hope!

moving right along :D  I was gonna offer a clue how it works with me. retrievals are a way to explore the afterlife. I never did an involuntary retrieval what there wasn't an intention behind it to be of service to someone else if I could. this means practicing to find out what PUL energy is and that is part of the retrieval experience. it doesn't have to be a bonafide retrieval to explore either...it can be a desire to help someone only, thats a lessor degree of that thing called PUL, but its in all of us I'm sure.

happy exploring!! whoooo whoooo!!!!! [smiley=vrolijk_26.gif]

Hi Alysia, I think I'm not far away from your philosophy. I like the image of "signing up" for an earth trip. The challenge is that things happen that are new, which you can't remember the plan of and the outcome. Well, that's just the characteristic of being a human!
Thanks for your description of your OBEs.

Ryan, I thought Monroes second body was the one with which he traveled in locale one, his etheric body. It's a while back I read it. I once saw (or imaginated, you know these mind journey perception is not as direct as the OBE-perception) my physical body lying on the bed, and another one of me, must have been this second body was sitting on on my bed.

Betson, a similar thing came into my mind recently, that possibly with getting older we can distinct better our different dimensional aspects and levels, in childhood everything is pretty much together and with age it gets more loosened, or it is just a learning process which enhances the ability to differentiate the different sorts of bodies/energies/levels.

Jean, interesting things, I too wonder where we're going to and what we all do simultaneously to our here and now existence. This Doppelgänger coincidence might be a fingerpoint to remember it, that it is somehow important for you.

James, I think reading about OBEs can be very helpful. It takes away fear when you read about those people who maybe have weird experiences, but finally they made it all back! And see, if I haven't read about OBEs before, I either hadn't one at all, or I hadn't experimented in this state, and therefore not identified and remembered it.

Spooky

Alysia said:
".... behind the image lies a pattern of connecting points; a memory in other words which can produce the manifestation of the wholeness pattern."  So even if the pattern is tattered and torn, it can be seen and redone in its ideal form. A L ---
Wow, alysia! That sounds somehow like a truth that applies to all layers of reality! It sounds true for our bodies, for our planet, the whole universal plan, that whetever we're doing to it, the connecting points are still there and will re-establish the rightness of it all.  How do you come up with this stuff ?  :o

I must say I like it much better than spooky's comment about loosened layers getting looser as we age! I took that personally for some reason spooky  >:( although I don't recall telling anyone my age except for one guy I wanted to know that my concern was maternal.  :)  Just kidding, spooky, I learn from everything you say, you know!

Many thanks! Wonderful thread!
bets

Hi Bets :D  I got that information from The Path, by Cozzolini. he talks a lot about the afterlife "layers" of consciousness. he said when making this negative from the torn photo corner that they keep "layering" the negative to get the pattern whole, each layer is a new layer but the original is under the new. you know like when you take two pictures as in double exposure? what I was picturing is invisible properties to the naked eye, but the pattern is there with technology to recreate. its sort of also like saying energy does not die, and we are energy patterns the same that don't die. if I can find that paragraph where he talks about the negative holds the pattern I will post it up. Bill does not mind I share his words here. he has a website. lol. he calls all of us Skyheros!!! yeaaaahhhh!!!! fly baby fly!! splat.  [smiley=vrolijk_1.gif]

Real nice experience Spooky 2. I hope its the beginning for many more to come. You will expanding many ways conciousnly. Did you feel out of sync at all later with the physical world?

Doug

Hi Doug,
well after this I was focused on re-thinking and remembering it all again and again, sort of digesting. You know I seem to be a bit spacey anyway, things that are easy and normal for other people I find difficult to do, and in reverse.
Spooky

spooky2 wrote on Jul 7^th, 2006 at 7:32pm:

I was lying (on my right side) on the bed in my hotel room, looked against the wall. No furniture, no pictures, an old wallpaper with a faded pattern. I was becoming to feel strange here. I didn't remember why I was here, nor where I was exactly (I still knew all that has happened in this dream, but that was not much). I closed my eyes, and when I opened them again, I was in my own bedroom in my appartment, lying on my own bed, looking over my room with it's many things inside. I was relieved, "I've already guessed that it was just a dream, everything's allright." I closed my eyes, opened them again and I was back in the hotel room! I was so scared, the reality had broken down! I for sure was going insane! I did it again, and the same happened. (Please note that I was convinced that this was NOT a dream!) Then something even more odd happened: With my left eye I saw my own room and with the right eye I saw the hotel room! I concentrated on my left eye and made the right eyes' view somehow fading away. I saw clearly my own familiar room.

That must have been quite a scary experience.  Its like realising that you are living two lifes all at once!  Amazing

:) Hi Spooky. Missed your original post, but that's quite an experience. Never know, maybe more of us will get the hang of it eventually....

Reborn: Yes, the scariest part was the swapping of realities, as I believed I was in physical reality; when I had that dual view, at least there was a gain in stability. But thereafter, the experimenting part in my bedroom was quite good!

Vajra: I still haven't got the hang of it. It just happened, and after it I had 2 less intense OBEs. The problem I have is the usual one: To relax to a level where you don't feel your body anymore while staying calm-conscious. Interestingly, as far as I know, the dream state normally occurs when the body is relatively active. When I had the above OBE, my body was deeply asleep, so that it was actually real hard work to wake my body up. Most pros though encourage us to practice, and with practice everyone could have success, so they say.

Spooky

Spooky,

Very profound very deep and interesting. I will not spoil it be saying I have had similar experiences, but I can resonate with the frustration of forgetting some of the interresting aspects of your decidely classical OBE.

Regards

Alan

I will be away for a while I have to have an op on both my eyes

Could be Spooky that what you said about deep sleep or relaxation is significant too. My experience is very limited - I popped into awareness  floating under the roof of the high entrance hall in the hotel at a Euro Gateway programme. But once only, and I clicked out after perhaps 15sec.

That experience had the feeling you describe - absolute reality, from within my 'body'. It caught me by surprise, and I instinctively tried to push myself away from a wall with my foot. As opposed to being aware of my body from a third party perspective, or feeling like I was dreaming.

Since then I've not had much success. My sleeping has been disrupted by allergy issues (restricted breathing) and snoring, and life has been a bit edgy. I waken very easily and am often tired, and have a sense that part of the issue is just that I'm not accessing the sort of brain states states I was previously.

My thought is that it's probably a question of learning to place our awareness in  whichever body or reality - going far beyond the physical. That altered states of consciousness amount to whatever it is of mind that gives the feeling of  awareness has this ability to make almost anywhere or anything it's vantage point. Including no space, no time realms.

It's probably not an issue for the more experienced who seem to be able to do it from all sorts of life situations....