Hi,

I've always been fascinated by people who claim to have been able to do OBE.

However, I have yet to hear of any proof, yet a very easy test to prove the OBE could be done but I have never heard of anybody doing it, so therefore I doubt OBE's are anything but a vivid dream.

For those of you who claim to be able to OBE, would you mind trying the following small exercise and let me know the results?

Exercise: ask another person to write a short sentence on a piece of paper (which you will have no knowledge of what he/she is writing) and then place this sheet of paper face up on top of a tall piece of furniture in your bedroom (or whatever room you choose to do your OBE). Once you are out-of-body (or claim to be), you would then go into the air, float over that piece of furniture and read that short sentence and when you get back in your body, you could verify that this was real. If you get the message right on, then you were OBEing, if not, then it will convince you it was all just a dream.

Also, don't tell me that I should try this myself to convince myself because I don't believe in this. If you truly believe you can do an OBE, then please try it out. Maybe it will work, maybe not but I want to hear from you on this.

Thanks for taking the time to try this.

Sincerely,

Snoopydoo

Actually, Snoop, I can suggest a trick that you yourself can learn - it's not OBE, but clairvoyance. I once convinced a large number of friends to do this one, and got better than 80% successes out of a dozen trials. I did an excellent workup, made the proper statistical calculations, demonstrated a statistical proof at the .05 alpha level and wrote it up to be published. I was informed that the topic was "too controversial". "Good heavens," I thought, "Scientific discoveries have to be reined in before we upset somebody with new facts! We have to maintain the notion of a flat earth, for fear those others will fall off." However, if you're willing, try this ... (Oh yes - the explanation is actually not OBE by simply a multidimensional awareness, nothing really exotic.) This requires a little skill, but can be learned in less than an hour, and will leave you with a skill for use elsewhere.

Get a swivel chair, or the equivalent. Sit in it quietly, eyes closed, and move your hands back and forth in front of you. Eventually you'll see their image though your closed eyelids.  (IR light penetrates. No big deal.) Look into the space in which you see your hands and allow imagery to form. Now have a friend rotate you. Notice that the outside world rotates along with you. However, it rotates either in phase, like with eyes open, or out of phase, as if you and context were on meshing gear wheels. This is vaguely difficult, and can take several minutes to stabilize the images.

Now, place an open container in front of you, on a shelf, for example. Focus your attention on it. Now as you rotate physically in the swivel chair  while you keep focussed on the object, it will seem to rotate as well, showing you a side otherwise hidden from view. Look upward, holding the image tightly, and the box will show you its bottom (often through the shelf). Look down and you can see into its interior.

All of this can be explained by very simple (multi-dimensionl) geometry. It's not a spiritual trick, nor is it anything spooky. If you are like most of my old friends, this is an ability that you already have and simply weren't using.

dave

Hi SAnoop - Me again - Let me add a post script -

Before we can truly discuss OBE we need to agree on the type of "space" in which  they might occur. This is a quickie to locate "hyperspace".  

I suggest that you buy one of Bruce's books next, and then try his "Home Study Course" if you want to put it to use. Then, after getting a feel for this bizarre inner reality for a few days, go back to the swivel chair level and see if you can vizualize something elsewhere. Then tell us whether or not your "point of awareness", or "viewpoint" remained in your body, or whether you had an OBE (by accident, perhaps).

Kardec's post (just prior to this one) deals with the ability to truly know this kind of thing.  - Welcome to the Spirit World!

d

Thank you, Snoopy doo,
First I'm trying to think if I recall ever seeing anything as fine-lined as writing.  I don't think I have so far, just shapes. Even hair is like a broadly painted version of hair for me.
If we shortened the message to something printed larger and thick with a felt marker, we could not, IMHO, limit the topic to just a word like 'apple' or 'boo!'. It must still have importance for the soul or whatever layer it is that does this stuff. Ego isn't involved, and a sense of doing good is inherent in the process we have learned here.-- I guess we could believe that it would be good for your soul, Snoopydoo, to have proof, and that would develope the caring and concern part of this.
But if I do this and tell you it worked, will you believe me?  :-?
(See how hard it is to prove to someone who's not into doing it themselves?)
bets

Hey,

I like doing little experiements for getting proof for myself every noun and again, like to re-affirm, keep beliefs strong and just fun! But i agree with Bets, i could say right now i did it and got it right, but your going to say ok, but i don't really believe it so the whole thing is pointless unless done with yourself, you may not like it but finding out for yourself is the best way. Or we could end just like how it always does...it was ESP again right!?

Dave, cheers for posting that! I am intrigued and have wanted to give something like this a go for a while. I'm interested in learning all this so thanks for posting your description up, it sounds fun!

Ryan

Hi to all,

Thanks for posting.

I understand what you say that you could do the test and lie (or not!) to me and say it worked and I might or might not believe you.

But my point is, I don't think this has ever been done. If YOU believe you are doing OBE, why don't you do this test and just prove to yourself that it actually did happen?

I think (and this is just my personal thinking here) that people who claim to OBE do NOT want to do this test because they might be disappointed to find out that it would never work, thus throwing a curve into their belief that they actually did an OBE.

Are you game to try it out and see if you really did an OBE?

Please let me know, it's more by curiosity than anything else. I'm curious to see if you are able to do it. If you go OBE and cannot go up on the furniture and read a message someone left there, what would your thinking be at that point?

It's not something to prove (or not!) to me but it's more that I'm curious as to whether you are able to attempt this and capable of achieving this. (I know I'm not able to do this so I cannot try this test myself, which is why I'm asking people who claim to be able to OBE to try this little test...).

Please let me know how everything worked out.

Thanks so much.

Snoopydoo

I think a better test might be a hidden object, as I'm told you can't read in dreams (never tried, so can't say) and some say you can't read OBE either, as memory works by image rather than intellect, or something.  I don't know if it's true, but using an object would eliminate the possibility of the problem, and I've heard it (the non-reading) mentioned enough that I wouldn't be surprised if it was true.

Hey,

I think a good idea for this would be a random word generator or something like that which no one will see, no one, untill you OBE and find the word. This would rule out ESP. I might try it one day soon but have got a couple of things i need to do first.

Ryan

Hi guys,

Thanks for replying.

Better yet, why not try both possibilities: one test with a sentence and another one with a hidden object?

(I don't understand why you wouldn't be able to read in OBE, I honestly don't...)

Can't wait for your feedback on the two tests, really curious to see how it turns out...

Thanks

Marc

Cricket wrote on Jul 10^th, 2006 at 2:17pm:

I think a better test might be a hidden object, as I'm told you can't read in dreams (never tried, so can't say) and some say you can't read OBE either, as memory works by image rather than intellect, or something.  I don't know if it's true, but using an object would eliminate the possibility of the problem, and I've heard it (the non-reading) mentioned enough that I wouldn't be surprised if it was true.

I never thought about "reading" in dreams, but as I read your post and thought about it, I cannot remember ever reading anything inside of a dream!  And I am a person with books always on the brain...my favorite activity.  Fascinating point, and I never thought about it before (not reading in dreams).  I wonder what the reasoning really is for that.

So, has anybody tried the tests yet?

If not, when are you planning to try them?

Thanks again!

Snoopydoo

I see a lot of pushing here by Snoopydoo for testing. Why don't you do it yourself. You will never believe until you experience it yourself.

Blessings,
Mairlyn ;-)

Hi Marylin,

I've already explained why I'm not doing it 6 posts before this one: I can't do it.

I'm not here for proof, I just want to see if people are actually capable of doing this or not.

I figured, if you believe you do OBE, then why not try this test out?

Question: If you do believe that you do OBE and you try these 2 tests and it doesn't work, what will your outcome thinking be? The same thing: you'll still believe you OBE'ed even though it might just be a dream because you would have failed this simple test.

The reason I believe not many people seem to want to try this so-easy test is because they know deep down that OBE does not exist and they would fail and they would be so disappointed to realize it was just a dream...

I said it before, I cannot try this myself because I can't do it and don't believe in OBE, but for you who does, why not give it a shot? What are you afraid of? Can you confirm to me that you've already done this test successfully in the past? I don't really care whether I believe you or not and vice-versa, all I'm asking is for people to try it out and come back here to share their results, simply put...

I'm curious...

Thanks

Snoopydoo,
I tried it last night and this morning with the written word and got a bad headache so I'm not trying reading again. Maybe in a dy or so I'll try with an object.
bets

Betson,

All right, thanks for getting back. Hope it will go better the next time around.

Thanks

Snoopydoo

Hey,

I will plan something around this weekend and give it a go and see how it goes.

Just like to comment on that you don't believe OBE's are real, fair enough thats your view and regardless of whether the tests come out successfull or not there is something there. Those of us who have had hits in PE's, been OBE, phased know there is something there we can't dismiss.

Just like to re-tell a story of a hit I had. Me and Vicky have been working at meeting up in the non-physical to meet and get proof and see if this is all real, plus PE's are fun! Ages ago I made it out of body and set the intention mentally (out there) to meet Vicky. I got the sensations of travelling (always seem to be darkness but feeling of movement) and ended up in a hospital. This is wrong! i thought, wheres vicky? why am I in a hospital? I walked to the nearest room which was open and inside was sitting a male doctor behinde a desk. I didn't question who he was, (seem to have limited awareness out there untill more experienced) and I asked a bit rudely Wheres Vicky! He replied shes in Ward 34 near the theater centre. (I think the numbers wrong, was a long time ago). The rest of my OBE i tried to find Vicky with no luck.

I posted this up here on the forum and Vicky replied with some positive results! She works in a hospital, I didn't know this. Also she works in ward 34, and next to her ward area is the auditorium (theartre centre). To me this proves I made a connection out there, three hits is more than chance. Hospital could be a lucky guess, its a major job. 34, thats a bit narrow for guessing for me and the theartre centre, also like the first but still all three together, I was happy and to me It prooved there is something out there which is connecting us, and that we can explore it, even if were not entirerly sure what exactly it is and how to proove it.

I will let you know about the test if i make it out, i can't just when i want though so might have to wait a while!

Ryan

A couple of years ago I found myself OBE connecting with my sister. was amazed at the clarity of the city lights and what I could see of the hills as I zoomed around for a look.
when I awoke, i was surprised because it had been a wet rainy night and I didn;t believe that it had been an OBE, so I went outside.
to my amazment the weather was jsut as I had seen it in my "dream: so it convinced me that OBE's are real
love to all

dave_a_mbs wrote on Jul 7^th, 2006 at 5:04pm:

Actually, Snoop, I can suggest a trick that you yourself can learn - it's not OBE, but clairvoyance. I once convinced a large number of friends to do this one, and got better than 80% successes out of a dozen trials. I did an excellent workup, made the proper statistical calculations, demonstrated a statistical proof at the .05 alpha level and wrote it up to be published. I was informed that the topic was "too controversial". "Good heavens," I thought, "Scientific discoveries have to be reined in before we upset somebody with new facts! We have to maintain the notion of a flat earth, for fear those others will fall off." However, if you're willing, try this ... (Oh yes - the explanation is actually not OBE by simply a multidimensional awareness, nothing really exotic.) This requires a little skill, but can be learned in less than an hour, and will leave you with a skill for use elsewhere. Get a swivel chair, or the equivalent. Sit in it quietly, eyes closed, and move your hands back and forth in front of you. Eventually you'll see their image though your closed eyelids.  (IR light penetrates. No big deal.) Look into the space in which you see your hands and allow imagery to form. Now have a friend rotate you. Notice that the outside world rotates along with you. However, it rotates either in phase, like with eyes open, or out of phase, as if you and context were on meshing gear wheels. This is vaguely difficult, and can take several minutes to stabilize the images. Now, place an open container in front of you, on a shelf, for example. Focus your attention on it. Now as you rotate physically in the swivel chair  while you keep focussed on the object, it will seem to rotate as well, showing you a side otherwise hidden from view. Look upward, holding the image tightly, and the box will show you its bottom (often through the shelf). Look down and you can see into its interior. All of this can be explained by very simple (multi-dimensionl) geometry. It's not a spiritual trick, nor is it anything spooky. If you are like most of my old friends, this is an ability that you already have and simply weren't using. dave

Boy, would I love to be in the same room as you for just 5 minutes.

chilipepperflea wrote on Jul 11^th, 2006 at 3:47pm:

Hey, I will plan something around this weekend and give it a go and see how it goes. Just like to comment on that you don't believe OBE's are real, fair enough thats your view and regardless of whether the tests come out successfull or not there is something there. Those of us who have had hits in PE's, been OBE, phased know there is something there we can't dismiss. Just like to re-tell a story of a hit I had. Me and Vicky have been working at meeting up in the non-physical to meet and get proof and see if this is all real, plus PE's are fun! Ages ago I made it out of body and set the intention mentally (out there) to meet Vicky. I got the sensations of travelling (always seem to be darkness but feeling of movement) and ended up in a hospital. This is wrong! i thought, wheres vicky? why am I in a hospital? I walked to the nearest room which was open and inside was sitting a male doctor behinde a desk. I didn't question who he was, (seem to have limited awareness out there untill more experienced) and I asked a bit rudely Wheres Vicky! He replied shes in Ward 34 near the theater centre. (I think the numbers wrong, was a long time ago). The rest of my OBE i tried to find Vicky with no luck. I posted this up here on the forum and Vicky replied with some positive results! She works in a hospital, I didn't know this. Also she works in ward 34, and next to her ward area is the auditorium (theartre centre). To me this proves I made a connection out there, three hits is more than chance. Hospital could be a lucky guess, its a major job. 34, thats a bit narrow for guessing for me and the theartre centre, also like the first but still all three together, I was happy and to me It prooved there is something out there which is connecting us, and that we can explore it, even if were not entirerly sure what exactly it is and how to proove it. I will let you know about the test if i make it out, i can't just when i want though so might have to wait a while! Ryan

three correlations definitely leans heavily towards confirmation, the odds of that being chance would be far too astronomical.  I look forward to your report on this weekend's experiment.  This all seems so fascinating, though I feel like a "muggle" (I apologize for the Harry Potter reference! lol) amongst a bunch of wizards here.   :)

Ryan,

Wow! Thanks for the great examples you got. That does not seem like a coincidence, like you said.

Can't wait to hear from your results on the 2 tests.

Thanks

Marc

Hi Snoopydoo,
of course I would do the test if I had OBEs which I can control. It's often said they come and go without knowing when and it's difficult to get yourself together then for a test. I recently read McMoneagles "Mind Trek" and he tried the OBE method for remote viewing. He didn't use it for remote viewing because it was too difficult for him to have one at will, but when it happened and he could control it then he had very good results, that's what he wrote. He prefers more the relaxation method, to get in an open state, concentrate on the target (unknown to him) and let it flow. I personally did that sort of thing, it's like mind journeys or the method Bruce Moen teaches, and some of my results were not explainable with random coincidences. However, there is much stuff coming in that I couldn't check, sort of information noise, and I don't know before checking it what is the hit-info.

Oh, and I too have very much difficulties with reading while dreaming or mind-journeying.

Spooky

Hi Spooky2,

When you say you can't control the OBE, wouldn't that be a "dream"???

I certainly cannot control any of my dreams but as to what I've read on this board, when you OBE, you should be capable of going wherever you want (like people who decide they go to the "crystal", whatever the heck that is?), wouldn't you? In this case, then what would be the difference between an OBE and a dream?

Why do you think you can't control your OBE?

Can someone else confirm that they can control where they go and what they wish to do when they OBE?

Thanks

Snoopydoo

Hey,

Hope you don't mind me jumping in here Spooky as I was about to post, but I'm sure you were on about not controlling what you do and where you go in the OBE but actually having the OBE itself. Snoopydoo, they are hard to do, specially at first, you have to deeply relax while maintaining your conciousness so you are awake and able to slip out one your body is asleep. This takes some practice, to some it comes easier than others. I have had a few concious exits but most of mine have been spontaneous, I have either caught myself falling asleep or found myself out. I think Intention is the key - if you said to yourself you wanted to experience this, mix it with curiousity (try to imagine what its like being able to fly, to be able to go anywhere!) and also with emotion (excitment about going to experience this) and thats all you have to do. If you keep thinking about it (which is what your doing on here in a way) you might find yourself having a spontaneous OBE one day soon.

I was going to post about the test, I will set it up tonight and go for a word that I won't know that someone else will write in big letters on A4, and try over the weekend. The only concern I have is where to put it, I don't want to put it where i can see it oviously, but i fear it may be too dark to see during night onto of my wardrobe for example but will try anyway, ill keep my curtains open and hope for a full moon! I will keep this ongoing untill i get results positive or negative, but when i will get them I don't know, depends on whether I can get out but I will set the intention and see how it goes.

Ryan

Hi Snoopydoo,
I do distinguish mind-journeys, OBEs and dreams.
What I call mind journeys are journeys in a trance with different deepness. Usually, I'm aware of my physical body and my thinking is similar as in the physical awake state, only that I'm at times very fast thinking in pictures and emotions. You start with the environment that you perceive or imaginate one, as sparily as possible until things seem to happen on it's own. But it feels still similar like a daydream, you only have insights and feelings that are absolutely untypical for daydreams.
My OBEs (can only talk about the two short ones I had) felt very similar to the physical, much more than any dreams I had. Especially that I saw and felt my body just like the physical is very different from any dreams I had. And no contact to my physical body. Of course you can say an OBE is a dream that feels like the physical until someone passes your test. But again, it really was different. My OBEs were short, the first problem was to realize that I wasn't in the physical because it just felt so. The first time I wanted to wake up physically to make notes on it, the second time I realized that I was OBE when I woke up physically. So, that's the beginner's difficulties.

Spooky

Here's one that's better than an OBE for you:

Why don't you PM board member Black Panther, who lives in Australia, and ask her how well I described the details her bedroom while wide awake and talking to her on the phone? I've never been to Australia, never mind her bedroom : - ) . Then you will have two people testifying about the same event, a standard of proof which may be enough for you, maybe not.

Instead of focusing on OBE's, I would look at shifts in the focus of consciousness, of which OBE's are, but that category includes more that that. Consciousness studies are VERY interesting. So is learning to do this stuff yourself, which is the only real proof you can have because otherwise you will always be taking someone else's word for it. If you can't OBE, then there are other things you can try. BTW, have you thought about going to The Monroe Institute?

I'll add something that may sound flaky to you, but is absolutely true: study and practice the power of Love. Love, esp. PUL, is the great enabler, the supreme catalyst for all sorts of things: OBE's, remote viewing, distance healing, to name a few.

Love,
Rob

Hi guys,

Thanks for your feedback.

BTW, just wanted to say that this past night, I know I was able to read in my dream because I dreamt I was in a restaurant and I know for sure I was reading the menu. I'm sure people can read in their dreams even though it might not happen very often.

I remember in a few of my dreams where I was visiting California and was driving along and had to read some road signs, which I did, to guide me on my drive.

Thanks

Snoopydoo

Good luck to all of you who are going to try the 2 tests over the course of the weekend!

Looking forward to reading about your experiences on Monday.

Thanks

Snoopydoo  8-)

Hi to all,

So, has anyone tried these 2 tests over the past weekend?

Thanks

Snoopydoo

Hey,

I fell busy and only tried one attempt with no success. I'm going to keep trying and see what happens!

Ryan

Hi.  I just now read this thread.  I can vouch for Ryan, as I'm the Vicky he was talking about.  The number was 24, by the way, but yes it was all as he described.  (I myself didn't even realize I worked in 24 until he said this, then I looked at the grid system at work and he was right).  

Hi Ryan,

In your attempt, did you try with a written word/phrase or with a hidden object?

Thanks

Snoopydoo

Hey Vicky!

In my attempt its a written word in marker pen on an A4 sheet hopefully covering all the paper. I still don't know the word and keeping with the same sheet so far. May change it though just to keep fresh so I don't get ideas and it will actually be the OBE seeing it.

Ryan

Still no success over this past weekend>

Thanks

Snoopydoo

Hello to all,

Is anybody giving these tests a try lately???

Thanks

Snoopydoo

Hey,

I haven't tried over the past week, the heat in england at the moment is screwing up my sleeping pattern, i'm not sleeping much lol! so you may have to wait for a while till i can try any attempts.

Ryan

The heat is terrific in England I agree there! I don't think any of us is getting much sleep never mind OBE'S...LOL  ;D ;D

Snoopy, if you do a little research, you will see these tests have been done-successfully.

I've read in dreams-just can't remember what.

I've been out of body.  About three times.  Can I prove it?  Not to you, but I am convinced myself.  Twice, I was both aware of my body in my room..or rather what was going on in my room (a race on tv one time)..

The one deliberate try, I flew down my street in the daytime, saw the neighbor girl sitting on her porch.  Came back, got up and checked.  She was sitting on her porch.

Another time, it was like I was "out of synch" with time.  I heard my daughter cough, as she came home from work.  I got up to check on her, and when I got into the hall, I realized I hadn't opened the door to my bedroom.  I tried to turn on the light in both the hall and the bathroom.  Neither would come on.  (of course they wouldn't come on, I wasn't physical and therefore could not manipulate the switch)

I walked into my office across the hall...and that's when I full realized what was going on-I was out of body.  That realization brought me right back to my body and awake.  About that time, I heard the front door open, my daughter walked in and coughed. (our front door squeaks-needs a shot of WD-40 ;) )

So, what does any of that say?  Some obe's are not in the present time either..I think time is different in that realm.  Which makes some of these confirmations more difficult also.

Very interesting, Shirley!     I've had two spontaneous events, but I could not verify that they were not merely lucid dreams :/.

in my experience, language doesn't translate.  the letters and numbers constantly alter themselves.  it takes a tremendous amount of focus to hold a word together.  you would have to work very hard.  on the other hand if you hide something in your closet, and then go find it, that might work.  in other words, get someone to hide something in their closet, and then go to their house and find it.  it worked for my friend once i think, if i remember correctly.  make sure you know the person very well.  

Regarding written words, I have occasional dreams in which I am presented with texts of various kinds and simply cannot focus well enough to bring the words back from the dream.  It is puzzling because I do seriously attempt to read the words during the dream, and I completely relate to your impression that the words "move" or "scramble" themselves somehow so that I'm unable bring them back in that form.  

love, blink

Hey Shirley,

Wow, thanks for the wonderful information... glad it seems to have worked for ya!

Snoopydoo

Hey Chilipepperflea,

Is the weather still very hot in England? lol   ;)

Any updates anyone?

Thanks

Snoopydoo

Regarding the written word, or in my case, numbers..

I had a dream the other night that I was at a Union meeting (I'm not union) and a former coworker was there.  He no longer works with us, but he was there.  I was trying to write my cell phone number down for him.  I had great difficulty doing so.  The pen wouldn't work right and what I did write was hardly legible..

Yo to all,

Well, well... It's been about 4 weeks since I checked my thread and nothing new has been reported: what's happening?

Can't replicate this simple test? I'm waiting for more feedback...

Thanks

Snoopydoo

Hello??? Anybody there to try this???

Thanks

Snoopydoo

Hey Snoopydoo,

I havent been around here for a little while and totally forgot about this experiment. Give me a couple of days and i will try, the trouble is I still find it hard just to "pop out", most of my OBE's are spontaneous and then I seem to do everything else except for the things I really want to do in them!

I can remember one experience out of body where I did read, it was really weird. In my travels in an attempt to PE i ended up in front of a row of houses and noticed on the wall some letters coloured brightly, they were out of place and they got my attention! I cannot say how I know this or whether it was real or not but somehow I knew they were from Robert Monroe? I stood there and focusing was hard but letter by letter I worked out the message which was only a few words long, I wish i could remember that message to this day though, I'm gutted I lost it. Whether it was from Robert Monroe I don't know, I will find out one day but can't understand why he would give me a message, i only know him through his books but if he did I am very grateful!

I will try but whether i get results, probly not im sorry to say. I agree with Shirley the best place is probly to search on the net. I will update in a week.

Ryan

hi all, I'm following Ryan around the board..lol....just reread this entire dynamic thread and thanks for being so persistant Snoopy-doo!  my, you'd make a good teacher I'm sure if you ever go obe.
Dave, I tried that experiment for a moment and could see thru my eyelids with sunlight and shadow the tips of my fingers moving in front of me. was I supposed to swivel in my chair while doing this? :-/  also I can remember laying down and seeing vague objects in my room thru my eyelids before. that was surreal experience. I'm going to experiment some more with this one.

I too distinguish like Spooky between obe, dream, lucid dream, remote viewing and the like. just using imagination and daydreaming can yield up some great mysteries into the mind.

sometimes you can get numbers. I don't know what to call the experience of picking up 4 lotto numbers out of the 6.  I had been "guessing" all the day long, writing it down, finally decided to nap on it. lazy method but nearly successful. I knew I didn't believe I could do it; is reason why I thought I'd try. woke from the nap seeing the numbers, had only 3 hours to go buy the ticket before they closed it down for the night. I saw the last 2 numbers were very vague and faded out, but the first four were correct, although they were not given in orderly sequence the way they are displayed on the TV.  I think the concentration for long periods is what induced the numbers to be displayed like on the screen of the mind. but also throughout the day it was like I talked to my guides arguing why I should lots of money... ;D   interesting to study the belief systems while doing this and the way I went back and forth if I was doing the right thing. money seemed unspiritual to me then. I was out of a job at the time, so you can see why I experiment this way.

interestingly, theres a place of forgetfulness in the mind when u just awaken. you will have only a split second to hang unto what you are glimpsing before the mind awakes to physical reality. symbolically it can be said when I looked at the numbers in the hynogogic state (inbetween full waking and sleep) I at once went into high pitch excitement. the excitment caused me to jump up and write down the numbers which were true. I also had a belief I could not recall 6 numbers. I recall numbers in a sequence of threes and twos. when remembering a new phone number for instance, in C1 I have to first impress my mind of the first 3 digits by repeating it. then the other four numbers in twos...like 32  or 44, I will have to associate these numbers with other numbers in order to remember.  in the case of the lotto numbers I had absolutely no time to do my association trick...they were just all displayed as an image; get it quick, in other words for you are slowly coming back to reality. so you have to change your beliefs about your ability to do something or remember.

Snoopy do, I hope you go obe sometime, its the best experience. can't explain it, but Bruce's books are a guiding light to altered states of awareness. for the most part, I'm in agreement I have never been able to control an obe. I am in agreement with Betson, pul catapults me into areas where angel fear to tread, all the more reason I meditate on the effects of PUL.

hugs, alysia

Hi Ryan,

Well, it's been just over a week: any attempts?  ;)

Thanks

Snoopydoo

lol Snoopydoo i agree with Alysia - top marks for being so persistent with this thread  :)

I can say right now out of body experience is real in my one wide awake conscious experience.  But now, you in a site of mature oobe people and they are the experts .. Bruce being the prime example.

Just a brief account of my experiences to-date and a summary of this phenomena;  In August i went right through the glass window of my lounge, like i say i was fully aware of going through the glass into my garden but i stopped there.  

In my working out of this phenomena; i reckon oobe is an extension of living in Earth, that is, it is done within the multi-dimension earth realms.  It is different travelling from when we go to sleep.  When we are fast asleep we are actually 'dead' (we die every night!) and here we travel to our rightful home.

Oobe is phenomenal and very very interesting in the development of mankind.

So, i had my above experience and often i catch myself awake in the middle of oobe before i slip out again of awakeness - but here i wouldn't call it true oobe its more like before falling asleep.

Last week i had a strange occurance in my second awake oobe.  I consciously left my body - wide awake and went to the door of my bedroom (that leads to a outside patio on roof) but the door was locked (which of course it is) but in oobe it was literally locked to me with the sense of 'no, you can't go out' not even through the glass (glass door) i turned to go through my bedroom door to go out through the front door but here, although my bedroom door was slightly ajar, it resisted me walking through it.  I was almost told to go back to bed .. which i did .. quite disappointed!

So, its a funny thing this which im hoping to concentrate further upon.  also, in my first awake oobe when i 'floated' through the glass above the trees in my garden i thought to myself 'ok where shall i go' and immediately i thought 'i want to go and see my mom, who lives on the east coast 800kms away' but i had the feeling someone said to me 'no, you can't do that' thats when i thought about my body and immediately flew down into a bush - out of the bush - back through the glass into my body.

(sorry rambling on Snoopydoo but grateful for the opportunity to relate this)

I do often see written words in my sleep - although here its not dead sleep - it is asleep and then awake.  My recent written words are;

i have been wondering who my friend is constantly sms'ing and in my awake dream state i clearly saw his phone in-box delivery reports .. lol it was no surprise it was a confirmation!

The other night i had this strange vision of a huge scar in my mouth - it was a long scar next to my teeth and i thought surely this is not in my mouth - it is a long scar.  Then i saw in writing THU 24th and the THU was plusating.  It was so strong in my mind thinking don't forget this date,  when i woke up in the morning this date was still in my mind.  Looking at a calendar the only time i could see a Thursday 24th is May 2007.  Very peculiar, im don't like date forecasts whatever they might be for and i hope to forget this date and if something happens it happens naturally.  But saying this thanks for the date!

Snoopydoo, sorry for writing about the mixture of my happenings under your investigation.  Im not sure if i am the right volunteer to do this.  Also, meeting other people awake in oobe is not really my fortiet (would be nice though) but somehow .. its not happening .. yet.  

The other members are highly experienced in this realm .. but its a thing that all things happen naturally and not when you want them to!

Keep well Snoopydoo and thanks for reading this essay  :)
Caryn

Hi - I don't do OOB a lot (no time! ;>), so I couldn't think of anything "relevant".  I have one possible that I'll write down, just to keep the thread active, if nothing else.

I was about to get a huge load of hay in, and couldn't find any of my hay hooks (and I'd looked, believe me), so I went and bought another one.  That evening, either drowsing or dozing, I went OOB (or in a dream state) and went out to my barn, up into the loft, *above* one of the main beams...and there was that dang missing hay hook!  Now, there might be a subconcious "knew it might be there" component to that...but I had looked all over creation, knowing my late husband was 6'3" (I'm 5'1", so you can imagine that "up" is where I tend to look for missing things).  But I saw it in an exact spot, and that's exactly where it was, hook down, long-ways of the beam.  Not 100% proof, because it made sense that it was there, as much as anywhere that long tall SOB might have put it  ;), but I didn't find it when I looked "in body", and it was exactly and precisely where I "saw" it.

hi Cricket, wow, I like stories like this as it shows the practical side of obes where something is found. sure, it could be all the time subconsciously you knew where it was, but this is not an absolute knowing, so I suppose thats why we call it sub-knowledge. its below the conscious.

well, I can top that story, lol  :D but just barely.  I get too excited. I swear its not an ego trip!!   I bought an old farmhouse with a pellet stove; thats all I used to use for winter. it worked good enough. I remembered when I bought the house, on the paperwork something there about oil heat. when I went to the basement I could'nt find the oil furnace as it was hidden behind a wall where a crawl space was. I saw some clipped wires with a thermostat attached to them...I figured well, someone done took the oil furnace with them as here's these clipped wires.

then I had the obe. I was about ready to sell out. a friend of mine who I worked with was in the obe acting as guide. he brought me to the corner of the house where my oil furnace (brand spanking new one it was!) was hidden and I said oh, wow, does it work? is this mine?   :o we cranked it up and got it turning right there out in astral realm! I was intrigued and kept asking him are u sure it's good? yes its good he said, and now you don't have to lower your price on the house as you have something valuable to the new owners who don't want their kids using a pellet stove by themselves.

shortly after that I decided to go into a crawl space to check for wood rot and discovered the oil burner, all shiny and new. got some oil out there and cranked her up and the house was warm as toast. didn't stink either.

I love obes.  Hey Caryn I like your description too. next time your out and something says you can't go thru the wall, disagree with it. I tried this that you put your hand on the wall and at first it's solid and u think, can't go thru. what u have to do is push a little with your hand first and the wall gives way. its just like the show when you're dimension sliding on TV, its a little fluid feeling then you know you're really obe and that on the physical level you can't go thru, but here, the rules change! if you can get your hand thru, the rest of the body you are in follows.

you're so right about letting it be natural versus forcing experiences by maybe wanting them too hard...sets up a block that way to the way it can happen naturally. I never obe intentionally as not that masterful and don't think it's a good objective unless you intend to heal a sick friend or do a retrieval or something with a purpose other than just what a lark it is, and it is that! most freeing feeling. I think they will happen more for all of us as time goes on, and in more easy, natural way.

http://images.bravenet.com/common/images/smilies/snorkel.gif

Hey everyone & Snoopydog,

Am i the only one trying this? lol I hope im not! Well i haven't had any results so far, not many OBEs recently either. I'm working through Bruces Afterlife Knowledge Guidebook as well as I want to get better and explore more easily and more often.

Well I will let you know if i get a chance to try out the experiement. The word is written large on a piece of paper and placed on top of my wardrobe facing into the room so all i have to do is go to the top of the wardrobe and read as easy as that...hopefully lol! But so far no luck yet.

Ryan

Hey Ryan,
Could be the answer to your question is the affirmative, brave explorer. I and perhaps some others bowed out when 'reading' was found to be painful if not imposible. One evening's try gave me a 2 day nauseous headache  :P
When my husband told me the word he'd written large and put on the top of some shelves, I immediately thought it seemed familiar and >if< I'd guessed, I would have come up with it. ? I could have got that much from him telepathically so nothing proven there. That's all I'm in for.--- Except once I spoke with a spiritually developed fellow who was saying symbols written here had to be about 12 ft and written flat out (Like on concrete or on a banner laid flat) in red 'so they could be seen', then he mumbled  'from above', I think. That opened up too many possibilities for me to deal with so I didn't mention it, but good old Snoopydoo is so persistent.  :) To me it meant that spiritual intelligences are not that close by but communicate with us from a distance and it is they who would do the 'reading'. We work in tandem with them up there, or that's the impression I got in that situation which was not about remote reading.
Has Snoopydo read any of the military's remote viewing books yet?
I'm happy he's had some insights into the spiritual since he came here but the responsibility for his question would seem to be his, not ours, since so many have tried so much for him so far. (Over a thousand readers so far and who knows how many have tried but without results worth reporting, like mine.)  I don't think we should have to hurt ourselves trying to do something that so many have said doesn't work, for whatever reason.  Stay safe, brave explorer!

bets

Reading just seems to be a bad way to do this...I know the only things I've been able to read on the few times I'm sure I've been "out" are stop signs and exit signs and such...well, duh - I know what they're going to say by shape/placement.  An object is hard, because it's hard to hide an object from yourself,  and if you get someone else to hide something, that adds psychic abilities to the possible ways you did it.  I've had the notion of getting a box of Cracker Jack, taking the prize envelope out by feel, and dumping the prize out where I can't see it, something like that, so I'm the one who did the hiding, with no way of knowing what it is, but I haven't had time to try it yet.

that sounds excellent idea Cricket and I'm all for it. long time ago a gal came here to tell us of the experiment similar to this she did with her partner. I think it was cards they used and they had some good success.

heres an interesting thing I read about. a person who works with the subconscious areas is a hypnotist. they did this experiment with a group of about a dozen folks. it explains how we can be aware of many perceptions that we filter out of the mind unless we are hypnotized to retrieve these insights or perceptions. another way of explaining this experiment is that whatever we believe is what tends to be true for us.

so they took one of the group and took her into another room. then they placed her into an altered state where the mind is more suggestive to what is told to it and told her that Cheri, the gal who was sitting next to her had left the group. but really, Cheri was still sitting there when they brought her back into the first room.
first they awakened her to C1. then before they brought her in the room they placed under Cheries feet a small object. but nobody but the hynotist knew the object was there as they had removed everyone from the gathering room first and placed it there.  very tricky huh? :)
then everyone filed back in and sat down in the same place as before.  when everyone was seated the teacher/guide/hypnotist said to look at Cheri and make a comment or greeting to Cheri. although Cheri was there in the flesh, the lady said Cheri was not there. then the guide said what is under Cheri's seat? even though Cheri's feet and legs hid the object from the physical eye completely from the lady's view, she said the chair was empty and described the object perfectly. you can't explain this type of perception by saying it was merely mental telepathy as only one person in the group was aware the object was there and that was the guide. I assume the guide was blocking from his mind and not sending her the signal the thing was there, because she thought the chair was empty and was using her physical eye to view the object to her own perception, so just how "real" is physical if a part of the mind can see right through physical objects like x-ray vision?

cool huh? well, it's interesting. we can know things. we can experiment.

love, alysia

Hey Bets!

The headache doesn't sound nice at all! I hope you are feeling better now? I have never experienced any physical symptoms from my explorations so far so maybe thats a good thing lol.

My personal opinion is that we can read out there, (my opinion based on nothing experienced so could be completely wrong here!) but I do think the word has to be clear and a resonable size, the 12ft banner seems a bit extreme but I could be wrong, i hope I can find out one day. I don't think you can read a book either though! Perception is different but on a good experience with plenty of focus I hope it is possible. My only time reading so far was the message I got but i was losing focus and had to repeatly concentrate on one object many times thoughout the OBE to stay focused, when I read the message i remember having to get each letter one by one. Thankfully the letters were all multicoloured which helped me work out the message! I don't know why it was hard though? maybe lack of focus or maybe reading is just hard.

I agree with what you said to Snoopydog as well. Snoopy, have you tried this experiement youself? I think it would be a good idea as well. I will keep my word up there as well just in case i manage to get out one day soon. It could be good for you to try and set the intention to find out the word so much it annoys you because you don't know what it is. You may be suprised!

Ryan

Hi Ryan,

No, I've never been able to do it myself.

Maybe you can try with an object instead of a word if a word is too difficult for you?

Maybe  buy a Cracker jack box and empty the whole contents on top of your drawer, where you can't see the object in physical world and then go OBE and try to find and identify it?

Thanks for trying.

Snoopydoo

Hi Snoopy,

whether its a object or word thats not the problem as yet, its getting out of body to go look for the word/object which I'm not good at doing when I want which is annoying because I enjoy going out and exploring! And I love OBE's! Most of my experiences have been spontaneous, normally set with intention and excitment.

Whether you have or haven't been able to go out I still think it will be good for you if this is the road you want to go down as the intention and a goal will help. When you go to sleep set the intention and state that you want to go OBE tonight and find out what is written down on that paper! Imagine yourself floating up out of your body and reading the paper. Let yourself drift off and keep an open mind. The best way I used to find is saying to myself, whether i believe its real or not, tonight i will just accept it is without thinking about it.

I know yourve heard this before but personal experience is the best proof. I'm just curious as to what the results, (yes or no) will mean to you. Specially when theres plenty of data already on the net in better test enviroments available to me or you. Also just a question... if your not prepared to try yourself...why is that? whats stopping you? That might give you some answers if your not sure already what this is really about.

Ryan

Heya

Alysia - i'll try that next time.  i noticed this time (when i couldn't go through the door) i didn't have the same awesome speed i had the first time.  This time i was calm and slow. Maybe that had something to do with it?

Just a quick note - i think i did make contact with someone early sunday am.  i was in oobe shadow form with a young male also in shadow form .. we were on a sports field and he rugby tackled me .. lol it was fun .. quick moment but fun .. then i went into this elobrate dream, was quite symbolic to me but i wont bore you with it because i can only relate to it really. lol.

Hi there Bets - long time no read! hope you are well  :)

oh you never bore me Caryn! :) you are interesting person. I agree sometimes we are speedy out there it does seem. this one time I was playing with the inside of the wall, focusing on the molecules swimming inside the wall, they were moving slowly but moving. the whole thing made me more lucid that I was not in my physical body and I think that was the point..to be more lucid and wake up from or into another awareness that there might be a solid wall there to one way of thinking, but to pure awareness being we, in a more fluid mindset we can pass through a wall.
internal dialogue:
I'm asleep. I must be obe then. (I place my hand on the wall)
if I'm obe why can't I walk thru this wall?
oh, you can.
but it feels solid.
if you're obe you can walk thru it.
really?
push gently and say to yourself it doesn't matter if I get to the other side. just test the water sort of.
wall turns into jelly about then as I push my hand through it and even my hand is not solid out there, but solid enough to push through. then I get interested what inside the wall besides drywall and wood or other solid substance that I think is solid.
and I see the patterns of molecules like its alive. do molecules have life?
I and the wall are one. I smile and drift away; no one will believe this tale I think but it sure is fun! I think you're right to be calm out there holds the key to perceiving more. love, alysia

Alysia, you wrote:
>>>focusing on the molecules swimming inside the wall<<< McMoneagle wrote similar things about his experimenting with OBEs at TMI. That you indeed can examine micro structures if you want to.

And, about this OBE experiences where you test the solidity of the surrounding, oh yeah that was so weird, odd but fascinating when I did this test in my OBE, pushing on a stack of magazines. It was solid at first, but when I pushed a little more, wow! my hand went into it, and I could feel different amounts of resistence to my movement as if I felt different sorts of paper or something. Crazy! Yeah.

Spooky

oh you did it too Spooky :) very strange feeling it was as the wall was solid then spongy but first I had to think to get past my nonbelief I could enter  the wall, wow, I thought I gotta tell everybody about the wall..but better keep my day job! :D