Greetings--
The Bruce Moen Book Club (BMBC) is about to start its 2nd review. The book we'll be covering now is Afterlife Knowledge Guidebook.

The format for the discussions has developed as this:
Approximately every week or longer, 2 or 3 discussion questions are offered that cover about 50 pages of the book.
Some questions get alot of discussion; some none; doesn't matter.
Readers also submit their own questions in reference to that section of the book or something that's come up in discussing that section.
When all that dies down, the next 50 or so pages is discussed.
Looking back over the first book, I think we've tried not to speak for the author, but rather to base our discussions on what the book's ideas have brought to each person--questions, experiences, more questions, etc.
More people drop in on these 'meetings' than speak up at them. Here's hoping that you'll join in !
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Afterlife Knowledge Guidebook (AKG)--Concepts of Consciousness--

"State-Specific Memory", as explained by Charles Tart, is involved in the success of our afterlife explorations. How would you explain what is meant by that and what experiences have you had that point out its importance?

Exercises to help afterlife explorers are a big part of this book.  Why are breathing exercises so important? When you do not use the breathing techniques, what have you experienced?

Belief-System Crashes are one of the less pleasant aspects of our explorations. Would you share with us how you experienced these--how many, how often, what symptoms, and how you overcame any negative side-effects?

Thanks in advance for your participation!

Hi Betson and all,

State-Specific Memory:
When I was young and silly (now I'm older and silly) I used to smoke pot a lot. I noticed everytime I started again smoking it, I remembered the thoughts of the last times I was on pot, like two consciousness threads, one on pot, the other clean. Unfortunately, I couldn't manage it to put these threads together so it was like two worlds which exclude each other (not fully, I wasn't in the psychiatry so far). This phenomenon (with pot) I've heard of other people too, and when I recall it right, also Bruce brought an example of that kind.
I use objects and surroundings as anchor points of getting in different states/locales of nonphysical activity (or imagination). I've learnt this through the TMI Gateway Voyage, so I use those Focus Levels. For each Focus Level I established a surrounding, a landscape, or just a grey, shady, windy place, or a special building and immediately the "level" feeling would occur already and also what I did before in these places, just like with my pot experiences, but the memory of this places I can better transfer to the other ones and to C1 than the thought threads on pot into those of cleanness.
This is much like Bruce describes how to remember dreams: Get a bit of them, a place, a person, a feeling, then the rest would come, because with an anchor point the whole would come back, as it seems to represent, or is tangled to some degree to the other things of the dream. I currently am reading McMoneagle, and in his Remote Viewing sessions he gets firstly an impression which he calls "gestalt", it is an overall impression, barely verbalizeable, ruling over the split details he would gather then, and toning and influencing their interpretation.
Also, sometimes I get a feeling, or a mood, and I remember then I had this before, may it dozens of years ago, and it would be the same feeling/mood, they would be the same experiences. Can't put it right in words, I would name it like "This autumn-stillness-thought-of-alchemy-heard-Peter-Gabriel's So-album". I remember usually strongest where I was and what I did when I established, means recognized and separated this feeling/mood/state for the first time.
So there is a state, which for me is a wholeness or gestalt which is not appropriate to tell in single details, then the memory that I was in this state before would appear, and with it memories, which finally would bring single details out of this wholeness/state, and not to forget for practical reasons, there are anchor points which are symbols (just any item could possibly serve as this) or density areas which are able to represent and therefore bring back the state.


Breathing I think sometimes can used as such an anchor point to get into a state one was before, like a ritual. But there's more to it. Breathing in my experience can be very effective for example in curing sickness or acute depression, when I feel I'm going to lose myself/feeling shattered. So I would say it is centering and self-empowering, activating and focusing. There are many theories behind it, but I'm not sure what's the right one. The sensation of a cool breeze, or opening at feet and top of the head I have also without doing the breathing, when I lay down it almost starts immediately. It's just training, getting used to it. I would very much recommend the beginner to try it.


The symptoms of belief-system-crashs Bruce told of gave me the opportunity to interprete such syndroms like depression new. This viewpoint is very interesting and constructive I found. It addresses that many people, brought to think they are "endogenic" depressive or otherwise insane and need some standard treatment, actually are going through a very personal period of changes, which, right understood, could be a very exciting and promising adventure. So instead of the view you are ill and must set back to functioning state, you would see the old is gone and the new not yet established, therefore the chaos, just like in puberty, so you could say I just need to be tough, look at what is gone and why, and what is the reality I tapped into and have to accept.

Spooky

I have just recently tapped into my State Specific Memory to recall the "wave".  Like Bob Monroe, I too had experienced being in the "wave", but the problem is--- I was between the ages of 5 and 8 when I had the "vision".  This past weekend, I decided to tap into my State-Specific Memory and reflect back into that memory bank or storage area of my memory in my mind to "feel" what I could remember.  My wave is a 3D grey area with swirls of waves, one atop the other.  If you have seen Disney's 3 Caballaros, there is a scene where the musical notes are floating on the bars of the note pad (I can't recall the name of the paper that is used to write the musical notes).  My wave scrolls either from left to right and/or right to left with a smooth, soothing motion.  It bring me to another dimention. I am aware of other "persons" floating in the wave with me. I am aware of some sort of housing structures and walls. There is a grassing knoll with flowers below. The persons I see all are in color, just my wave is a transparent 3D grey.  I am gleeful and enjoy the ride.
It seems to me that when I look into a hole in the wall of the structure, I am able to see beams of light--- golden and white light.   I feel love and comfort.  No fear.
That is the recall of my wave in my state-specific memory.  Love and Light--- cat

Thanks Spooky and identcat!

Your sharing your experiences of these concepts helps others see the spiritual vitality in Bruce Moen's and Robert Monroe's thoughts. These ideas just keep on giving and giving! Thanks for giving yours and getting us started!

Belief-System Crashes are one of the less pleasant aspects of our explorations. Would you share with us how you experienced these--how many, how often, what symptoms, and how you overcame any negative side-effects?
_______

thanks Betson..reving up here..this is neat.
first I work similar way of Cat and Spooky and much enjoyed this kind of thread. I think I already said this..humans do repeat themselves..lol...ever notice that? I like the music notes image Cat floating up from the page. visuals do as much for us as does reading a written word or hearing a high flute note and suddenly you are obe.

a belief system crash I'm going to repeat here in different words as it was so spectacular it produced an obe. this just my 2 cents to this thread though, as I really want to hear what others say about belief system crashes. I did not find mine negative, but actually if produced a feeling of freedom from the belief system. the beliefs were all about what it means to be in the role of being a good daughter who takes care of the aging parent who has changed into a childlike person. so role reversal in a way. nobody will feel and have the same experience in a crash circumstance, so I will not make my point, but its good to try!
my ideas started to go crash boom bang about my mom and I's relationship and instead of my mother, I was her mother. and then finally we became universal roommates instead of these roles. then there was no expectations of role playing left. just a fresh start. I had no idea that I would go obe when i crashed. its like, I had this self image of daughtership. what that means. but when you move beyond roles you crash yourself. your identity changes. something died, but on the other side of death is freedom, so you see its not negative at all, and gives us a hint what it would be like to actually go thru a death experience and emerge on the other side of that. theres mini crashes all the time, we go thru where we feel something changed inside and now you're not the same person. but generally its subtle changes...a bunch of little changes can add up to a big change.

I think what I remember about dying, this belief system crash, was the exhileration the most...
check out this image..lol...at the speed of light your traveling up, up, up, so fast you cannot see anything..your arms are open wide extended up with you whole body..but u r not flying...some current has you in its embrace...something intelligent; something loving...u have no idea where its taking u..but really, you have no choice...you belong to it and theres no where else to go and the wonder and excitement is all that you feel. you might even hear a thousand voices celebrating with you, the way that you released your belief system. u ride at this incredible pace thinking don't let this ride be over too fast....finally it delivers you somewhere, right where u were supposed to be, where you can add your 2 cents and even be appreciated for it. then u get a sense that dying is the same as life, because theres a sun that rises on the other side too...always a new day, even in death.

and the current which was alive and knew me? I don't know what it was...some facet of god, giving me the biggest thrill ride I ever encountered just because. it might be the tunnel folks speak of in nde. but to me it throbbed with life. perhaps it was the wave of which we are all a part.

http://images.bravenet.com/common/images/smilies/surfing.gif

Interesting point Alysia, that in your case a belief system crash would have exhileration and a free-feeling as it's effect.
It seems as if you were somehow prepared for it, as if undercover your belief system had slowly changed and when it came into your consciousness at the occasion when you got rid of the old roles you could break free, while others would have the feeling they themselves, or their world would break apart, I guess that happens when it comes too suddenly and unprepared.
That you were able to have an OBE at that time maybe was because in this new state your "censor" hadn't settled already, was confused and off power temporary and you took the chance and lifted off!

Spooky

Laughing Rain--- you made me laugh!! Your 2 cents---my 2 cents!!  Well, we are up to 4 cents. Anyone want to make it a nickel??? LOL

When I first read about belief system crashes, the very idea of them seemed so foreign to me and I was relieved that I'd never had one.

Then two years ago I had one. I won't go into the reasons as they're very personal. But I can tell you the effects it had. I couldn't eat, I couldn't sleep, I threw up most mornings when I realized I had to go through another day. I had the runs almost continually. I shook all the time. I lost 20 lbs. in 6 weeks  It seemed that everything I had learned about the spiritual life was a lie. I couldn't think straight, couldn't meditate, was like a zombie. I was ready to die. I did pray though.

I can't really say what finally started me healing but I do know that my guides and angels were helping me. Gradually, over time, I was able to start eating, little bits at a time.  I came back slowly, but I did come back and have found that I am now stronger than ever.

Just wanted you all to know how bad a belief system crash can be.

Love, Mairlyn

Hi Mairlyn,
have you been able to identify which parts of your belief system were fighting against each other, and which one you let go? And was there a special incidence that triggered the crash?

Spooky

Hi Spooky,

All I can say about this is that when I moved to Oregon, nothing was as it was supposed to be. I'd had such high expectations of so many things. I'm not really wanting to go into any of it. After two months there, everything in my world just fell apart. It doesn't really matter to anyone what it was as it was very personal. All of my spiritual belief systems were involved. That's about all I can say.

Love, Mairlyn

Hi Mairlyn, we don't need to go into details.

A possibility, maybe not fitting to you, more in general, might be that from time to time there is an attack of all-over-doubting, maybe caused by experiences which shows that something is actually totally different than what one had expected it to be. This then could cause a snowball effect, to put all the other beliefs in question and doubting them. Interesting is, after one has overcome this crisis, would the old belief system again be restored, maybe even more established than ever, or would it be modified? Is this a belief system crash in Bruce's sense at all?

Spooky

Wow... I "really" liked reading your (Spooky's, Chuckles', Marilyn's) stories about belief system crashes!

Marilyn wrote:

"Then two years ago I had one. I won't go into the reasons as they're very personal. But I can tell you the effects it had. I couldn't eat, I couldn't sleep, I threw up most mornings when I realized I had to go through another day. I had the runs almost continually. I shook all the time. I lost 20 lbs. in 6 weeks  It seemed that everything I had learned about the spiritual life was a lie. I couldn't think straight, couldn't meditate, was like a zombie. I was ready to die. I did pray though. "

I went through the "same exact" thing Marilyn... I'm not just saying that either... I know exactly what you went through for I went through all of that as well. However, I lost 35 lbs... I couldn't sleep, eat, think... nothing. I had no emotions. As far as I was concerned I had already died. It felt like my soul was ripped from my heart. Luckily, my family was there to help pull me out of it. I didn't know what was wrong with me, I just couldn't muster the energy to feel anything/do anything. I was lost/confused/disoriented, and I got to the point in fact, where I just didn't care anymore. I felt alone. My family said that I was suffering from major depression. However, I began to understand/know/feel what it truly was... It was a belief system crash... Everything that I had ever thought, felt, knew was stripped away from me... I didn't know who I was, what my purpose was, or why I was even here. I was stripped away from myself. Then, things started to turn around. I found little "destiny trinkets" of knowledge that guided me through; directed me onto the right path. I began finding things left and right... running into people that inspired me... "I found this forum!" I had personal spiritual experiences. My life now is better than it ever has been. I feel stronger and more capable to handle what life throws at me now. I found PUL everywhere... I felt it for everything; in everything. I found a strong/meaningful belief system that I allow to grow/change/evolve with me... instead of one that is forced upon me; unchangeable. I am new, and with that everything becomes new. I would go through all of that again just to feel things that I can feel now. I find this comparable to passing on to the next life, and being born anew there. The feelings/emotions are going to be beyond the description of overwhelming... PUL bliss, so to speak.

Chuckles wrote:

"I think what I remember about dying, this belief system crash, was the exhileration the most...
check out this image..lol...at the speed of light your traveling up, up, up, so fast you cannot see anything..your arms are open wide extended up with you whole body..but u r not flying...some current has you in its embrace...something intelligent; something loving...u have no idea where its taking u..but really, you have no choice...you belong to it and theres no where else to go and the wonder and excitement is all that you feel. you might even hear a thousand voices celebrating with you, the way that you released your belief system. u ride at this incredible pace thinking don't let this ride be over too fast....finally it delivers you somewhere, right where u were supposed to be, where you can add your 2 cents and even be appreciated for it. then u get a sense that dying is the same as life, because theres a sun that rises on the other side too...always a new day, even in death.

and the current which was alive and knew me? I don't know what it was...some facet of god, giving me the biggest thrill ride I ever encountered just because. it might be the tunnel folks speak of in nde. but to me it throbbed with life. perhaps it was the wave of which we are all a part."

What you wrote here Chuckles truly touched my soul...

PUL,
Cosmic_Ambitions :)

Wow CA, yes you did suffer the same as I did.  One thing I forgot to mention was the panic attacks along with everything else. Thank you so much for writing about your belief system crash. Thank God we both came out of this stronger than ever.;-)

And yes Spooky, I feel that this is exactly what Bruce talks about. It's not the same for everyone I'm sure. However, these two (CA's and mine) were probably the worse case scenario.

This is the first time I've ever talked about mine to anyone.

Much Love,
Mairlyn ;-)

Hi all,
after Cosmic Ambitions added her experience, we could state now that every significant crisis we went through makes us feel different, mostly stronger, grown, with a new approach, seeing things we just didn't perceived before. It feels as if we had become different persons then.

Then, it seems talking about a belief SYSTEM is worth to keep in mind. When we consider we have many beliefs, then they would be interconnected and dependent on each other. Therefore, to become aware one of these beliefs is fouly, the whole system is about to crash. That's why a relatively little occurance could have a great effect, in the way that it is difficult to notice a connection between that occurance and the crash.

Spooky

Hey spooky, I think that you're right... "Crisis" does make us feel different afterwards. Mostly stronger, grown, with a new approach; seeing things we just didn't perceive before. During the crisis however, it can feel like it will "never" get better. That's gotta be the worst of it. I just held on for the ride, hoping things would get better. It was such a gradual belief system crash that I didn't even realize it happening before it became fully blown. Now everything is great, and I couldn't be doing better.

Spooky wrote:

"After Cosmic Ambitions added "her" experience..."

Sorry I didn't include my gender under my profile. But, I'm still not sure how... ??? --- For what it's worth... (And not much, when considering the prospects of what we all "really/truly" are.) I'm male. ;)

PUL,
Cosmic_Ambitions

Quote:

During the crisis however, it can feel like it will "never" get better. That's gotta be the worst of it. I just held on for the ride, hoping things would get better. It was such a gradual belief system crash that I didn't even realize it happening before it became fully blown. Now everything is great, and I couldn't be doing better.

Exactly!!!

And I too thought you were female, don't really know why. The main thing is that we both came through it all stronger than ever. ;-)

Love, Mairlyn

Keeping in mind what you all are saying about belief system crashes, incl spooky's
"...When we consider we have many beliefs,
then they would be interconnected and
dependent on each other. Therefore, to become aware one of these beliefs is fouly, the whole system is about to crash...."

Could past personal crises be accounted for as belief system crashes?
I'm going to go back to some crisis time(s) in my life and make one of those 'sociograms' where you chart by writing the biggest thing/aspect in the center of paper, then spokes out to what related to that, then spokes out from each of those to what related to those, etc. The whole thing then looks like a complex atom or section of heaven filled with stars. The center topic in this case would be some big disappointment or big change that I was unaware might have been a belief system.  
Thanks for getting me thinking on this.

Belief system crash: I am in one, have been for probably a year or two.  My whole life is changing.  Stagnation to chaos to order and back again, back and forth, back and forth.

The things that I desired most in life are being arranged in an orderly way around me (independence, simplicity, love, creativity) but have come along with an almost unbearable intensity of activity and emotion which can be overwhelming, and new demands require me to respond no matter how flustered I might become at times.  

Let me just say: profound exhaustion.  Moments of extreme happiness.  Moments of utter confusion and distress.  

But I see that there is a greater purpose at work. This is not over yet! Sometimes it feels that I am responding very poorly to the stimuli around me, but that's how we stretch our spindly little wings, isn't it?

love, blink

blink's belief system crash:
And yet you've written some of the most focused and beautifully inspiring responses on these threads---how do you do that ?!  :o  
If you want a 'time out' from the changes, have you asked for it? Guidance has always seemed amenable to that.
You amaze me Kathy, and you have since I first came here. I always look for your entries because I know I'll learn and be inspired by your thoughts. I'm shocked and so sorry that you are having a crisis. Good Grief! as grandma used to say.
I'm going to go back to your responses say previous to the last year or so---were you even more profound before this period of being flustered and exhausted?  

Hi bets,

Thank you for your sweet words here.  I do have to give Kathy her due, however, and mention that she is a different person, an amazingly gifted writer here.  Her words are always a gift.

I see all changes as an impetus to absorb, express, and find the deep creativity which resides inside of us.  I find no reason to complain to the powers that be anywhere.  I simply ask for their support and it is always given.  The most difficult circumstances can be  transformed into value.  This is always true.  Emotions are always useful and bring transformation, so I am grateful for them.  When we are tired we rest.  That is all that is necessary.

This world requires that we all transform our beliefs.  Some can do it now and others will do it later.  Every day I wake up and look out at the world and say, what next? We share our ups and downs, humans that we are.  Each one of us has our obstacles and our transformative journeys, don't we...each of us is on a journey.  And the days become shorter as we go along...:)

love to you, blink

Cosmic Ambitions (hey man!) wrote:
>>>During the crisis however, it can feel like it will "never" get better.<<<
That's true, had that too, and that's why a crisis can be such deep down. Sometimes I have this narrow feeling, things I have to do seem to hunt me and make me worry, my time seems to be such full. Then I notice this uncomfortable feeling is related to my habit to cut myself off from the future, like there is not enough time left for me. This again is throwing me on my presently tasks in such degree that I'm starting to get confused about it all and therefore have this narrow-feeling. When I then imaginate I have all time I want, like I would reach an age of some hundred years, or will ever be there, this narrowness will leave me. Suddenly there is this immense "the future is wide open" feeling, and if feels just wide and easy.
This never-get-better feeling also is related to retrievals. I met a couple of people who were stuck just this way- remaining, lingering, circling in the same situation without a way out to be seen by them. I'm always saying, no matter if one thinks retrievals are "real" or not, if you have experienced some, they tell you something. It's about to let the alarm bells ring when you find yourself in this "it never gets better" state and to try to remember the wide open future.

Betson, when you look at your sociogram(s), maybe you could translate them into beliefograms, that is you take the occurances and aspects and think about what beliefs they are representing. It's just another method of exploring the own history.

Blink, I like your posts, yesterday I thought you must be a very happy person (hmm, if "happy" is the right word, maybe "intensively smiling" is better) and hope I'm right with my thoughts, anyway, wish you could have a nice rest when you need to!

Spooky

Apologies, blink,
for involving a wrong first name.  My comments are still meant for you---blink.  (I'll admit to lapses but not crossed wires.)
bets  

WHat about belief system crashes that don't resolve? I'm thinking now of the classic example. A young man gets drafted, gets sent to boot camp and roughed up, gets sent to war and witness or participates in or experiences events totally alien to the way he was brought up. Civility is suspended. The reality he grew up with literally does not exist where he is. He gets through it, comes out of the service, developes PTSD and spends his days in homeless veterans shelters. (All the symptoms listed are classic PTSD symptoms). There is no resolution to his belief system crash. Reality is neither what he thinks it was nor what most of us say it is.

So what does this mean? How can it be resolved?

(ps I hear that Gulf War and Af ghanistan vets are showing up in shelters but not yet Iraqi vets)

Reality is never what we think it is, is it? And all belief system crashes are little mini courses in this. Why are we so attached to our misconceptions about the nature of reality? But it starts early. We are rewarded by our parents for buying into the system. I could never figure out how to not suck my son into the system and still have him capable of survivng it. Now he's bought into it. He will have to experience his own belief system crashes to get out of it.

Even when I know intellectually something the system/culture thinks is important is ... un-real...I find I am emotionally embedded in the system and my intellect is inadequate to overcome that emotional entangling of tentacles the system places around me.

You can't win.
You can't break even.
You can't get out of the game.

(folk versions of the laws of thermodynamics).

I still suffer some effects from belief system crashes that happened years ago. Can't find how to get out of the game.

Now it is time for Alysia's favorite quotes...that I can't quite recall...nothing real can be challenged; nothing that can be challenged is real.

Love (PUL) is all there is.

I even see intellectually that that is the only thing that makes sense but I don't know how to live it.

We can all skip all the belief system crashes when we learn how to do that.

Why doesn't our system teach us this?

These are big questions Lucy, and probably deserve their own threads .
I've erased my 3 attempts to respond so far.

When you say "why doesn't our system teach us these things" about PUL, does "our system" mean our system within or our way of outer life system, incl govt. and schools?

Soldiers' retrieval from PTSD might make another full thread.

Sorry I can't pull my thoughts together on this yet.
bets

Good questions Lucy. I don't have the answers. As Bets said, this probably needs it's own thread. Maybe when Bruce gets back he can help us with this.

I still have PTSD from the 28 years of abuse from my husband. Even though he's no longer here in the physical, other similar things can bring the same feelings/responses from me. This is something I need to work on, to totally release the fear caused by this. I thought I had, but things come up and I see I haven't.

I keep getting from guidance that we're here to release all this and to learn from it.

Love, Mairlyn ;-)

hi, I'm back..have moved to CA. made it safely except for "check engine soon lite came on" and got a leaky shock.

sorry, u probably dont wanna know! :P  
Lucy, the quote goes "nothing real can be threatened; nothing unreal exists.

although you add a nice twist on it with the word challenge. I think theres a different meaning though. I think we can in a positive sense challenge ourselves more easy than to use the word to mean challenging someone else. at least thats how I look at that.  insofar as belief system crashes being hard or easy, I find myself involved in both kinds, and that we can suffer under allusions and not even know we are under an allusion. thats where the crash comes in. but we can make up our minds ahead of the crash, that rather than be mislead by our allusions we would rather suffer a crash and get it over with the more quickly, than to continue to have a programmed negative response due to something we used to believe.
although all beliefs are fine, just until they no longer suit our preferences.
yet Lucy, I know what you're thinking. or I think I know what your thinking!  I had an obe once with a friend and it started a two year gentle crash. meaning it took that long to figure myself out, as I held conflicting beliefs. it was gentle because I didn't have to think about it if I didn't want to. but I wanted to, as obes are never boring; they are so real you can't help but think about them alot. the main thing is to be kind to yourself when going thru one..the tendency is to judge yourself and thats where all the pain comes in. it also helps me to say "this too shall pass" or "how am I blocking myself from understanding this?" another thing that helped me in times like this is to realize the nature of having a single life here; its temporary, we are traveling thru; this is not our home in a permanent sense. and of course last but not least, I believe in guides, or guidance or higher self, or something which loves us so much that it would allow us to become separate from itself with that thing called free will. We used to call it God. thats out of style; lol. god is love though. and the way love works is, you give freedom to the beloved; the beloved flys; if the beloved comes back to you, it loves you, if it doesn't, maybe it needs to get a map to home; and maybe the map getting is what we do now.

hugs, alysia

Great words/wisdom Chuckles!

PUL,
Cosmic_Ambitions

wrote on May 30^th, 2006 at 1:35am:

Great words/wisdom Chuckles! PUL, Cosmic_Ambitions

Chuckles checking in here...say, Cosmic, you must give off a feminine vibe, I thought you were female too. maybe you're a balanced bloke.

well, my guides told me I was to become balanced both polarities this time around. I told them to put it where the sun doesn't shine. but it usually the case I do the listening, they do the talking and if I stop listening they stop talking..guess thats where the free will comes in, I can choose to listen.  :P

I better stop or I end up making a new topic in the wrong thread. cheers alysia

Well, Mairlyn, that's interesting to think that one of the reasons we are here is to experience belief system crashes.


Although that encompasses everything from minor changes to major things like dealing with death, chaos, betrayal, physical violence...you know, the things that you aren't allowed to ignore when they happen...

It is kind of odd but trying to deal with this: "nothing unreal exists" has been kind of a belief system crash for me. I'm talking about more in high school/college years, long ago, when I felt and thought some of this stuff...it sort of came out of my own experiences, but there was no way to talk about it back then. Like, I didn't like to smoke pot because I got really analytical about the perception changes and I couldn't get ot that place where I knew "nothing unreal exists". It really felt like reality was warping to me then, and I couldn't explain it, and it frightened me. I don't think explanations based on changes in brain chemistry are adequate. You have to understand something about "we create our reality" in conjunction with "nothing unreal exists".

yeah our culture teaches us a way of life as though it is etched in stone...and I have this thing about that being a way to manipulate us...like the way the Catholic church told little children that priests were representatives of God and then when some of them turned out to be abusive, those abusive ones could use that belief system to abuse the children and get away with it, because even the adults wouldn't believe bad things about representatives of God.

I think it is really good that Bruce includes this because it obviously is part of the fabric of here, C1.

Hey Chuckles! Yes... I am physically/categorically identifiable via gender specific qualifications as "male". Maybe I can induce some stereotypical qualitative gender specific ideologies to humorously regulate this reasonable misconception. I can harvest a full beard (at will) and I wear men's cologne. LOL! ;) (Nothing against any males out there who don't! :-X)

All joking aside, I find it highly interesting that so many have targeted me as being of the female type gender. I haven't heard that from anyone before...

Lucy wrote:

"It is kind of odd but trying to deal with this: "nothing unreal exists" has been kind of a belief system crash for me. I'm talking about more in high school/college years..."

I can relate with you on this Lucy.

PUL,
Cosmic_Ambitions

Quote:

All joking aside, I find it highly interesting that so many have targeted me as being of the female type gender. I haven't heard that from anyone before...

You are most likely  very well balanced male/female wise. Interesting too that you've only heard that from people here.

Going back to reality, I think I need to watch "What The Bleep" again. Have you all seen it?  We each create every second of every day and I need to study this more. I had to buy my own copy as this small town wouldn't bring it to the theater as the owner said it was too esoteric for these people (how true) and even the stores that carry videos and DVD didn't have it.  :o LOL

Love, Mairlyn  ;D

Marilyn's post above doesn't show up on the list for me unless I post this....
?

Lucy, it was really weird.  I made the post and it didn't show up for me at all but on the 'front page', it said that I had posted at such & such time. So I figured it was hung up out there in www land and that hopefully it would eventually come through here. And I guess it did with your post. Really strange stuff.  :o lol

Love, Mairlyn  ;D

Book Club--- Based upon the 2nd 'section' (pp circa 50--100)  of AKG----Aspects of Consciousness

1.  On other threads discussion already has been offered on the roles of Interpreter and Perceiver.  Instead of discussion this time, could any of you share a 'dialogue' between Perceiver and Interpreter, ---either one you've experienced, or one you create that will illustrate some afterlife information to be learned? In other words, what might a dialogue between your Perceiver and Interpreter sound like and what did you learn from it?
+/Or
2. 'Guidance' comes in many forms or invisibly. As a reader of AKG you may have had guidance experiences from which others can learn.
When 'Guidance' was first being acknowledged as an important part of your spiritual life, did you have any experiences with it that surprised, amused, or scared you, that instructed you in some unexpected way ?
+/Or
3.  Aspects of Consciousness includes Aspects of selves.  Have you had or heard of experiences in integrating what one finds on focus levels with what one needed to learn about self?  Humorous?
surprising?
Thank you for sharing your thoughts on these books!  

I talk to my angel guides everyday.  Espically when I am driving. Here are two expierence regarding listining to my angels.  Several years ago, I left work and was crossing the street. When I got to the curb, I didn't pay attention to my footing and didn't step up high enough. Down I went, face first.  This is the part that was "enlightening". As I was falling, I felt a presence in front of me, holding me back and I "slowly" went down to the ground, face first.  My nose only touch the pavement ever so slightly and my glasses slid forward.  I said out loud, "Wow, what happened?" I wasn't referring to my spill, but rather the presence who cushioned my fall.
Two years ago, while driving on the highway in the winter months, I decide to slow down as I could see the pavement was starting to freeze over. As I  started to lower my speed (from 60 to 50, so I thought), I heard very clearly, "You are going to go  off the road".  As my car turned and went sideways across the first lane, I heard, "let go of the wheel".  I let the driving wheel go and the car continued to turn and go backwards over the breakdown lane into the grass section (covered with snow) of the median.  I landed quite safely, cushioned by the snow. At rush hour----there were no other cars on the highway either in front, to the side, or in back of me.  I knew I would be safe. I had a tow truck within the hour and arrived home safely.
I preceive my angle guides and I interpret their messages---instantly.  

I've had 2 experiences like that too cat. Both of them were a couple years ago when I lived in Oregon. I was with my friend Sharon and got out of her truck. Somehow I missed seeing the cement piece that stops cars from driving forward. I went staight down and then straight up again. I never hit the pavement. Now this happened twice at two different times. Both times Sharon said she couldn't figure out what happened to me because I was there, then going down, then going back up again. LOL My perceptions were really strange because I could feel myself going down and then coming right back up almost like when you rewind a tape. Well, of course it was my guides and they are the ones that put me back up again.  Needless to say, I thanked my guides profusely and promised to be more careful.  ;D

Love, Mairlyn ;-)

I love reading and sharing these kinds of stories.  I don't know if I've ever told you guys this one...

When my son was about 6 months old, I was on my way out the door and had him in the car, but I forgot something in the house.  So I unbuckled him from his car seat and carried him in the house with me while I went back in the house.  While walking down the hallway I tripped and started falling forward, and of course I was afraid my baby would go flying out of my arms.  I thought "please don't let me drop the baby!"  and instantly I was forcefully pushed straight down in a squating position with my knees on the floor.  I don't know how I got in that position, as my back was straight and my arms were tight against me with the baby never coming loose from my body.  It happened so fast that my muscles in my legs felt ripped and were quite painful for several days afterward, as it was such an unnatural maneuver.  I was shocked and knew that something had intervened to protect the baby, but I was very, very thankful.

http://images.bravenet.com/common/images/smilies/bouncer.gif

thankx Betson..you always know how to get me started somehow!

first, I love your stories one and all. I have not fallen and been propped up yet..cross fingers! but! I have sliced my finger, like the papercut kind and heard a voice say DO YOU NEED PAIN??
of course, logical person that I am basically I replied NO!! and all this before the pain signal reached the brain cell.

the following conversation I took out of my book I will be publishing as soon as I'm satisfied with it, or rather, the guides are satisfied.
I used to call it higher self conversation, but now that Betson mentions this "interpretor, perceiver" idea, I am thinking also this fits well to explain the dialogue.
DP stands for dead preacher aspect, and is he whom I believe was another life I lived. He says he was an early Christian. LR stands for me, Laughing Rain, the gal who is new and fresh here and not much else.


LR: Everybody is love?
DP:  Yes.
LR: They don’t say so?
DP:  No.
LR:  Everybody does not love me?
DP:  They don’t know they love you.
LR:  That’s not understandable to me.
DP:  If you love them first, they love you.
LR: That’s understandable.
DP: Thought you could see that.
LR:  Is this like a great truth?
DP:  Yes.
LR:  I cannot share this great truth?
DP:  Not in a book. Emotions are not usually expressed through written words unless you write poetry or use your right brain.
LR:  Why develop intellect at all?
DP:  It is a diverse world; each viewpoint is valid.
LR:  And no right or wrong; but if love is behind all, to speak of it is not wrong?
DP:  No, it is not wrong.
LR:  Do I have to explain love scientifically?
DP:  You don’t have to do anything.
LR:  Oh, I forgot.
DP:  What do you wish to do?
LR:  Ah....love for no reason.
DP:  Then love for reason or no reason.
LR:  Its too noisy out there.  Not many speak of love.
DP:  You must listen harder. You will hear it.
LR:  Oh, I forgot. Thats true!
DP:  It’s very quiet now. Shhh!
LR:  Yes, tomb like.
DP:  Do you feel it?
LR:  Feel what?
DP:  Love.
LR:  For myself? Theres no one else here.
DP:  Yes, yourself when theres no one else there.
LR:  Yes, I’m neat, huh?
DP:  Oh, you’re like the common nut variety.
LR:  I’m gonna let that one fly. So what message I send to one, is received by all?
DP:  Yes.
LR:  Everybody does not love me I learned today.
DP:  And?
LR:  Because they forgot they loved me?
DP:  Tell them they love you because you love yourself for no reason.
LR:  It’s easy to love them because they all belong to me.
DP:  Because you let them not love you.
LR:  Yes, I let them not love me if they don’t want to. That’s what god does.
http://images.bravenet.com/common/images/smilies/simpsonspike.gif

That was a great conversation piece Chuckles. I liked the ideas about love in there. I also enjoyed everyone else's stories with regards to Guardian Angel Intervention or "G.A.I."

I believe that I have posted this story in a previous thread somewhere, but it bares repeating nonetheless...

I remember hearing a story from my grandma when I was younger. My grandma; grandpa; dad; and all of his brothers/sisters were driving in the car on a family trip. My grandpa was driving and had dozed off behind the wheel. Upon dozing off, the car took a sharp right and was headed straight for a telephone pole/deep ditch at roughly 50 mph. Right before impact the car was "miraculously" back on the road and driving straight ahead with no explanation as to how this could have possibly/logically happened. There was no answer aside from "G.A.I."...

There was another time when my brother was little and he had told my mom that a lady in white was singing to him in the backyard and that she had a light inside of her... My mom went out back to look, but nobody was there! Also, my brother had no previous notions of angels/helpers/guides prior to this experience.

Another event that occured was when I was in grade school and had made a clay pottery bowl in art class... It was painted blue and had been thrown into the kiln to harden. Upon pulling it out I had noticed a blemish on the bowl that looked rather peculiar. Upon further inspection I realized that it was actually a highly detailed face of an angelic looking man. It was perfectly centered and unmistakable. I believe this to be either a guardian angel displaying his presence subtly, or a member of my I/There disk. Either way, it was apparent that it was not a coincidence on the paints part.

PUL,
Cosmic_Ambitions

(Side note): I ran into a lady at work today that works in the medical clinic... I began talking of the back pain that I experience all the time as a result of a car accident that I had been in roughly 3 years ago. Like everyone on this board, she reccommended an energy cleansing/stimulating of my various chakras. She said that she had actually trained on how to work with energies for this very reason. She then began a brief spur of the moment energy manipulation on my back with her hands. I began feeling heat quickly build up as she did this... She said that she was sucking out the negative energy/vibrations, and replacing them with positive energy/vibrations. I then felt my back get cold, and the pain subsided. She said that when I get time, that she would like to do a full energy healing on me. I'm totally game, and I can't wait! She also said that she felt a very strong flow of energy in me and that she has never felt it that strong before. This was the first time that I've ever had this done and I'm already hooked! :)

thats cool CA about the back healing and you seem ready to let it all recede into the past..and it helps the healer so much when people accept them like you are doing. I'm very happy for you.

I've had a chakra adjustment by a friend done about 3 times out there..we heal each other and its so much easier than doing it alone. I also had 2 discs slipped popped back into place by another absent friend as well as a group of healers on the other board I am on. I had received healing from the group then the discs slipped again. were times I crawled around the floor with it..sleeping a lot...my pain threshold is high...no insurance...my friend visualized my back, saw the exact number of the discs on a sort of chart, and a spirit doctor assisted him in popping it back, it took him hours to do it and I am in debt to him for this seriously. the pain mysteriously vanished the next day after he did this, although I had been barely getting around for about a month.

so all I'm saying is I'm glad you are getting back healing as thats the worst pain I can think of to have. and everyone out there it's ok to believe in miracles as they happen if you let them and you ask in sincerity and say you would like to be done with the pain once and for all.

hugs, alysia

Keeping on topic here, I decided to tell about my first encounter with a Guide. I had heard of them, knew we all had them, but had never seen or heard one.  So with that in mind, I had what's called a PREP session at TMI after I took Lifeline in June 2001. This is where I am in a completely soundproofed room that has copper shielding on every wall and ceiling. There's a huge bed in there that is filled with salt water. I have 3 electrodes on the fingers of my right hand and headphones on to hear Skip talk to me and a microphone just above me to talk to Skip.  Here is my session:

The Monday after Lifeline I had a booth (PREP) session with Skip Atwater.  We chatted for quite awhile and he explained how I'd have electrodes on my fingers which measure surface temperature, galvanic skin response and skin potential levels.  I don't quite understand all that but that's okay. Skip and I discussed what I wanted to get out of the session and I told
him to connect more with Guidance.  Told him I never see/hear Guides,
just know that it/they are there.  The booth has a wonderfully
comfortable waterbed with saltwater in it.  I sort of rolled onto it,
put on the headphones and Skip put the electrodes on my fingers, then
absolute darkness.   At Focus 10 I asked who my Guides were but didn't
receive an answer.   At Focus 12 I started seeing the white swirls I've
always connected with Guidance.  I asked if the swirls were my Guides
and had the same song sung to me as in Lifeline when I asked what my
purpose in life now was -- "Just spread sunshine all over the place and
put on a happy face".  Along with the song came incredible feelings of
Love.  At that point I felt I had succeeded in connecting with
Guidance.  At Focus 15 I didn't perceive anything so we went on up to
Focus 21. I went into the Bridge Cafe and asked for the pink drink that
helps me perceive more. All this time I was so comfortable and not
feeling my body at all.  I asked again if the swirls were my Guides and
I started getting twitches and vibrations over several places on my
body.  Then I started getting warm, then hot, then very hot and I was
about to tell Skip I couldn't take the heat but in my mind I thought
I've got to do something about this and the next thing I knew I was
swimming with a dolphin in very cool water.  In fact, I was hanging on
from underneath so that I was fully submerged in the water and I started
getting relief.  I came up once and the heat started again so I went
back down in the water and just enjoyed the coolness and looked at the
dolphin who was smiling at me and then I realized that this was my Guide
also.  Skip asked me what happened so I told him.  Then he said it was
time to go back to C1.  The Dolphin came back with me to F10.  When I
got out of the booth, Skip showed me on the charts that my skin
temperature stayed normal but that when I felt so hot, my GSR (Galvanic
skin responses) and SPV (Skin potential levels) rose sharply, then both
came down quite fast (swimming with dolphin), back up a little, then
down again as I totally cooled off.  I felt extremely satisfied as I'd
finally CONNECTED in my mind to Guidance.  And it was hard to believe
that an hour has passed because the time seemed so short, but it was
definitely an hour.  I also had my 2 crystals with me in the booth.

Later in a meditation with a group, I met my dolphin guide again and asked her if she had another form. She changed immediately into a blonde beautiful woman with long hair. I asked if she had a name and she said Quest. I thought how appropriate that name was. ;-)

Love, Mairlyn ;-)
 

I enjoyed that Mairlyn..I could almost go there with you in the cool water and feel the happiness of the dolphin/woman. hugs, alysia

You know, one thing that amazed me at the time is that I don't swim and here I was under water looking up at the smiling dolphin and I wasn't breathing. I thought, wow, how cool this is.

Luv ya, Mairlyn ;-)

Great story Marilyn!

PUL,
Cosmic_Ambitions

Thanks CA. ;-)

Love, Mairlyn

Just beautiful--- thanks for sharing. Love and Light--cat

Greetings--
We''re now looking at the middle section of AKG having to do with Heart Intelligence, Love, and Gathering Energy from Above.

Did you ever try to shortchange this information, go into a spiritual experience without gathering heart energies, and wish you had done more to involve Love? Were you able to change the situation?

How does the love energy used in afterlife contacts (or as presented in Bruce Moen's book) differ from your previous concepts of love? Does that affect your life beyond your afterlife involvements?

Thinking of the realms labeled Focus 24,25, 26, have you ever attempted to enter them while in a state of mind not conducive to love energies? Would you share with us what happeneed, or if you have not done that what you think could happen?

Your participation is appreciated!

hey there Bets! ;D  you ask the most interesting questions. this is great. I'll start off. even though I'm an afterlife explorer, these days what I'm doing is tying the now physical life into how it creates my afterlife experience, so I'm going to run a short story by you and let you all laff at me. because it is funny and maybe someone can learn from me..don't know, we have to go thru our own journeys. but here it is.

I also will tell about contact with my deceased friend, however it was brief.

I don't know what focus level I was in. I never do. all I know I was 20 yrs younger than now, and had just broken up with a live-in situation and the future looked bleak. my focus level therefore was FIND ANOTHER FRIEND to walk with Pronto! My emotions, you might suspect were on channel extra sensitive called desperate.  btw, I'm not ashamed of anything I've done.  ok, so without knowing I was steamrolling into my reality, I set an intention to find a relationship and listed criteria. 1) must like my 2 snotty kids
2) must never walk out on me  3) can be funny looking
3) must be willing to sit and intellectualize for hours with me

I couldn't think of anything to add to the package, so I got the above minus the things I'd left out.

so I think that explains how we can do explorations of reality, both physical and nonphysical and only get what we've decided on our list of projections.
the problem with my funny looking guy is; after 8 years, he wouldn't leave! and I wanted him to.
so its not about security, that comes from fear, not love. you should always ask for the highest good of both people. I forgot. as for the intellectualizing I couldn't get a word in edgewise. it was awful. although I'd never had this before, the conversations of length so I liked it at first. yes, come from love, not security desire. oh, he loved my snotty kids. a plus feature. finally, I'd asked for the right thing in that.

Larry died last year. In his spirit he reminded me of a pixie with intellect. after he died he made the rounds of all his friends to try to make contact. I can hear words from the other side and so one day in my kitchen out of the blue I heard his familiar greeting "howdy, howdy." whenever he came over these were his standard greeting. I stopped in my tracks, pleased I could hear him. I had been waiting for two weeks. he seemed in normal state; not up, not down. Just Larry.
I told him I missed our emails together. I had been trying to get him to see that there was an afterlife, and he always said he would just wait and find out for himself; he didn't want to investigate. and then I rubbed it in..as you can rub things in with friends..I told him "I told you so, now didn't I?" he said yea, you were right. then that was it. later, I saw him in a dream with one of his best friends hanging out there.
he was slapping his forehead. he was just realizing how incompatible we really were, and that while I was studying his oddities, he studied mine, but no, it was not a match made in heaven!! lol.

all this is to say gang, write it down, it does come true, but don't leave out any details. and then don't sell yourself short either, but keep to the idea of trying to find out what unconditional love is and practice it.

cheers, alysia

Hi,
one interesting point is, Bruce told about a connection between gathering love energy / (re)experience love / put yourself in a love-ful state  and  the perception of nonphysical environments (and, in turn, the physical in a new way). So this love energy might be not only alter our experiences, but even make them possible as a prerequisite.
To speak of "love energy" in my case was an opener to a new approach to love. Everybody involved in spiritual activity is talking about love, if not everybody at all. It had become worn out, "yeah yeah love, I know." . But when it is seen as energy, without the necessity (for being able to experience it) to embrace everyone before including your ugly neighbour and those guys of your past you never want to meet again, then you can have a new start to find out what love is. Like Bruce said, if thinking of persons don't work, think of pets or even a nice landscape, that would work too. So it's a broader understanding of love that makes it easier to find and experience it, "energy" implies you can have access to it when you're in the right frame of mind, more the technical way, and not only past a moral-judge told you that you now have done the exercitia and therefore you deserve it. No, there is no high step or armored border to cross to get bit after bit of this "energy", once you have identified it, so to identify it is it seems the beginning. It's like you have sounds, colors and odors, and it's all mixed up until you start giving them names, then you will more and more be capable of finer differentiations, and the same way it goes with feelings, or energies. And then maybe one day you could have a new look at your formerly ugly neighbour and might see some things which weren't to be seen by you before. That's what I think- but it's subject to change!

Spooky

that reminds me Spooky of Bruce's "recall specific memory" in reference to the feeling attached to such memory will start a chain reaction and you can make a new choice about the experience to sort of disengage the negatives..so then the ugly becomes less ugley and beauty can be found in the eye of the beholder.
I agree to think of love or PUL as an energy because it gives energy to the self.

even physical energy comes from a kind word which causes one to feel good, or to feel loved; or just appreciated. for example. I used to garden on public land and sometimes I would wonder why I was doing this, as its hard work. then once in a while someone would walk by and offer a word of appreciation for the beauty that they saw. something would happen to me. I would take that energy and suddenly I felt peppy and enjoyed to pull the weeds with this fresh energy. this would be PUL coming from out there to inside me. but to me, it seemed amazing that a thought could indeed energize the body itself!
yes, PUL could be like a drug! ha ha!

hugs, alysia

Thanks for those two interesting and dissimiliar discussions! I find it fascinating that Bruce's themes can develop in us in so many ways ! Hope we get some more examples.
So you two responders to the BMBC theme show we can find ways of expanding involvement with love in  experiences in various focus levels.  And yet when expanding love's role, you were not attacked by the fuzzy bunnies and floating saints that might carry over from previous conceptions.
----Was this an initial fear or caution flag for anyone when they got to this part of the book, the "yeah yeah love, I know" response?

The word 'love' comes to us loaded with so many side issues. PUL helps us to reestablish some meaning. What else can we do to help potential retrievers
move thru any blockages that misconceptions might cause?

hey...I was called mother Theresa on this board once. I was sure they were talking about me and to say the least I resented it!  I think we can move beyond such stereotyping...I would hope anyway.
maybe its this way: as a retriever you start off with a conception of your self image in that you are not there yet..its just an image of yourself doing it. an image comes from the imagination...but then I come here and learn my imagination is a good thing, and instructs me; not fails me. so you start doing it. action speaks louder than any process of building an image but they go together. so I'm Mother Theresa. so what?

to help others retrieve is a good idea, as I no longer think of retrieving as simply telling some poor bloke they are dead dead dead. its so much more. its IS a kind word as the successful retrieval is bring the dead or alive back to some form of feel good. what feels better than appreciation, love, or a recognition this person even exists?
not to get off subject, but this society is too technologized. you call someone on the phone; what do you get an answering maching with jillions of buttons to push and u never reach your party until an hour goes by maybe, then they say they need to redirect your call and the cycle begins again. what are you going to find in this technology? not human kindness, thats for sure. thats an example of how bereft in personalization we are. love, retrieving, kindness, this only happens one on one and retrievers can provide that understanding, that each of us happens to be a spirit as well a human struggling.

once you start retrieving you start understanding peoples patterns of behavior, how they can get stuck in beliefs day after day..and the funny thing is PUL frees them to move out of that belief. but what I wanted to say about love or PUL and self image, the first step is willingness. you have to want to see it first then only your focus goes in that direction and you find it covered over with allusion. being willing in spirit to see only love puts you thru some grinding experiences at first but you hold up strong and keep your willingness and life changes then, because you are just another human and we all have such similar problems in connecting and relating.
so if anyone calls me mother Theresa. fine. at least I'm not Hitler!  hugs....I need a place to live...BYE!!!

Thanks Bets...pushing my buttons as usual!

I'm going away for the day but thought I'd post this because it has to do with Heart intelligence and I found it very interesting.

http://www.ratical.org/many_worlds/JCP99.html

"The idea that we can think with our hearts is no longer just a metaphor, but is, in fact, a very real phenomenon. We now know this because the combined research of two or three fields is proving that the heart is the major center of intelligence in human beings. Molecular biologists have discovered that the heart is the body's most important endocrine gland. In response to our experience of the world, it produces and releases a major hormone, ANF -- which stands for Atriol Neuriatic Factor -- that profoundly effects every operation in the limbic structure, or what we refer to as the "emotional brain."

This includes the hippocampal area where memory and learning take place, and also the control centers for the entire hormonal system. And neurocardiologist have found that 60 to 65% of the cells of the heart are actually neural cells, not muscle cells as was previously believed. They are identical to the neural cells in the brain, operating through the same connecting links called ganglia, with the same axonal anddendritic connections that take place in the brain, as well as through the very same kinds of neurotransmitters found in the brain.

Quite literally, in other words, there is a "brain" in the heart, whose ganglia are linked to every major organ in the body, to the entire muscle spindle system that uniquely enables humans to express their emotions. About half of the heart's neural cells are involved in translating information sent to it from all over the body so that it can keep the body working as one harmonious whole. And the other half make up a very large, unmediated neural connection with the emotional brain in our head and carry on a twenty-four-hour-a-day dialogue between the heart and the brain that we are not even aware of."

Love, Mairlyn ;-)

Mairlyn is demonstrating whats gonna happen in the future to society as we evolve. the heart intelligence is too intelligent to blow up the world, so thought I'd throw that in for the nay sayers who believe in destruction potential of the human nature. sure, we create wars but we can look forward to the merge of science as Marilyns website puts it forth. I mean science and religion merge. for many ideas expressed here have to do with religious concepts we've carried for generations as a society speaking...and we can't rid ourselves of those concepts all at once, but only the concepts that pertain to PUL and tolerance among peoples will evolve us.
I love science. I'm more into holographics and string theory but I'm only at the beginning of merging science and religion. I've lived a few religious lives and assume theres been benefit there; but it IS time for science and the heart intelligence idea excites me beyond anything else....so whadaya expect of mother Theresa clone? lol. thanks Mair..you're my sister. love ya. alysia

Betson asked: How does the love energy used in afterlife contacts (or as presented in Bruce Moen's book) differ from your previous concepts of love? Does that affect your life beyond your afterlife involvements?
_____

I'd say it differs in that it occurs as in a rote, or as in a rush of vibrations of emotional nature, a more profound experience which filters down into the brain, into your mundane C1 and can't help but effect you as you keep thinking about what the feelings said and keep wondering about it in C1. PUL, felt from these other levels, whether its obe, or phasing, or meditation, they are what makes life worth living to me. in C1, we can experience PUL, but it is like it is measured, in increments, yet here in C1 is where we set ourselves up for these extraordinary excursions which seem to be happening on the outside of us, but really since we are all connected by the heart intelligence, we are talking about the inside of the heart linked up the mental, where we are willing to love.
anyway, I'm sure everyone has fallen in love. so ask yourself what it would be like to never fall out of love. and thats what these kinds of experiences do for you. and we all deserve to be loved and to experience our connections here or there. hugs, alysia

Greetings all,
I was just noticing that we have more readers than posters,  so I wanted to note that when a reply is addressed to a particular someone, that's just for clarity.  So thread-readers can look back and see what they're responding to. In no way does it intend to set up a dialogue limited to the named 2.
Even if a person had not read the part of the book up fpr discussion, they might have questions or comments based upon what had been said so far that would help everyone examine and clarify their thoughts.
The intention isn't to paraphrase or speak for Bruce Moen, but rather to explore what happens as a result of reading his works.
(New discussion questions coming soon.)

Betson said:
Quote:

Thinking of the realms labeled Focus 24,25, 26, have you ever attempted to enter them while in a state of mind not conducive to love energies? Would you share with us what happeneed, or if you have not done that what you think could happen?

I have always entered the Belief System Territories in a state of mind that is condusive to love energies. It is basically ingrained in me now to do this. Without the love energy, I don't feel that I could have moved anyone along to the Light. It can't be stressed enough how much LOVE is needed to get people's attention. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

With Heartfelt Love,
Mairlyn ;-)

your right Mairlyn, nothing much happens without the PUL element and we will be expressing this the rest of our lives and there will be some who won't get it so thats what I'm thinking about right now. the funny thing about your post is from where I am your post is shown as posted at 11:01. I don't think you knew that would happen but it has meaning for me. hugs, alysia

Murphy's law:  If something can go wrong it will

Monroe/Moen law:  If it's a belief system it will crash.

This is a very interesting thread to me.  When I first read about belief system crahes it shed a whole new light on the life changing experiences I've had.  The first one I had was caused by an LSD trip I had when I was just out of college.  It was a very powerful experience simply because I knew nothing about the afterlife.  It opened me up to that possibility.  During the experience I thought I had died and gone to hell and there was no one around that could talk me out of it (I was stuck in focus 23 while I was in my physical body).  When the drug wore off I was so greatful to be alive but I was very shook up because I knew that if I died for real I would go right back to that hell.  I no longer considered hell a place but a state of mind.  And if that's the case then I had a whole lot of work to do.  I really related to the Firesign Theater quote, "Everything you know is wrong".  It took me years to reintegrate into a somewhat normal life.

The second and bigger crash came while I was involved in a religious group.  I had come to the point where I outgrew the belief system and had to move on.  Sounds easy but this took years.  I had to leave behind all messiahs and doctrines of salvation.  It's very depressing to come to the realization that you've been wrong about your belief system.  I think the fear of dealing honestly with yourself about belief systems is what keeps many of us stuck in them.  Fortunately I'm at the point now where the "buck" stops totally with me.  

Another interesting note about crashes is that If you've ever talked with a person who has had a near death experience you'll notice that almost all of them go through belief system crashes.  At iands.org there is a section on how to deal with the after effects of an NDE.  One major after effect is depression. A lot of them feel that THEY DON'T WANT TO BE HERE.  At least those who have had an uplifting NDE feel that way.  

I hope this is useful to anyone out there.
Rick

Hi Rick, well said I must say and basically my own story; I'm sure others benefit from reading these posts and I'm glad you posted.  speaking of Murphy's law. I used to live life looking over my shoulder, waiting for karma to catch up to me. then I died. when I died I stopped looking over my shoulder as I realized everything that had seemed wrong in my life had a purpose I could not have known. I don't know how to express the freedom from worry these days to not have to look over my shoulder to examine what I might have done wrong and was being punished for. it was all just belief system programs making me dance faster than I needed to. nowdays I look forward to any crash..I actually try to find a good crash because I know whats on the other side of it. more freedom. I shouldn't say I try to find a crash, but rather I can focus on really enjoying life now without worrying like I used to about every little thing that happens. its true what u say in a way; that all those who experience NDE do not really live here on this planet fully, nor do they want to be here; as once you've been to the other side, this earth fails to satisfy those deep cravings to return home to our natural state.
however, we have our reasons to remain and live out our term; only we are changed people; freer somehow and so we can really make some headway to share our stories as best we can. and again, I feel very happy about you and send gratitude that you posted. hugs, alysia

Thanks Alysia.  You're a very kind soul.  I didin't know you had an NDE.  Do you have it published somewhere?  I'd love to read it.  Hugs back,
Rick

Hi Rick, I can't find it in the archives, but heres a clip from my book not published yet, the whole chapter is 12 pages which I can't put here or I would! thanks for reading it!

“What!?? I’m d-e-a-d?” The concept hit me with the full impact of a gong show. Duh!! I felt an incredible sense of elation and urgency to be moving now that I knew I was dead. I had been floating in a subjective realm, now I had an objective, and so it was true that some after death had difficulty to discover an objective: that black velvet thing had driven me to my daughter after surrendering concern or objectiveness. Now I needed to be moving out of the physical plane to wherever there might be like minded parties as my daughter had retrieved me to the purpose of love. I was late for my appointment with death!  Late, just as the others I had retrieved had had no appointment. As retriever I had enjoined them to family, where the love was. But I’m never late for anything! All my life I’d been curious to know what it was like to be dead and now I knew!  “I must go hon, but I will visit you soon!” I told her.  I was thinking, “guess I won’t have to do dishes again like she is doing!” Then I grinned. I knew I would be checking in on her frequently although she would barely be aware during these times I sent her energy or surrounded her with the thought that everything was going to work out ok. She felt so small. I knew what a huge light she was and so equally tender hearted. I closed my eyes and surrendered to the great unknown of death, my form arching as if a straight up flight was the only possible choice. I could have been like a puppet and the strings were pulling me up at the speed of light. This was symbolized by a powerful explosion of what I can only describe as a majestic trust within surrender and no desire nor expectations. The tunnel of blackness caressed me in flight. Something was going to have to catch me because I didn’t know where I would land. DP said I was in rapture, whatever that was. I was completely free form falling before you pull your rip cord only there was no rip cord. So this was death...complete surrender, the end of one movie and the beginning of another. My soul would know where to move me instinctively, but love would awaken me to self-knowledge and that I had transitioned.

Wow Chuckles! What you wrote was truly powerful!

Please let me know when your book comes out, for I direly want to read it.

You have an amazing amount of wisdom/insight to share...  [smiley=engel017.gif]

PUL,
Cosmic_Ambitions

Thanks Alysia.  I'm in suspense.  Please finish your book.  I want to read it.

I have a question for you.  I've had a very similar experience of flying at or greater than the speed of light.  In my eperience I had the feeling of shooting straight up, like you, but I looked back and saw the beautiful blue earth.  There was an angelic like being (it felt feminine) with a wand of some sort  floating below me.  She pointed to the sky above me and said, "Don't look back! Don't Look back!".  I looked upward and at that moment felt as though I was shot out of a canon.  I reached speeds that seemed incomprehensible.  Stars were flying by me.  It was incredibly exhilarating.  Then I started wondering where I was headed.  Some fear must have come out becuase I was immediately grounded firmly back in C1.  I've always wondered where I would have ended up if I had kept going.  I've heard others talk of their experience but I'm curious to hear from you - did you actually land somewhere or breakthrough to some other dimension?
Rick

Quote:

How does the love energy used in afterlife contacts (or as presented in Bruce Moen's book) differ from your previous concepts of love? Does that affect your life beyond your afterlife involvements?

There's a big, big difference. I had no idea PUL existed until I experienced it myself. There's really no words to describe it.  I didn't realize that LOVE was such a powerful energy.

Yes, it affects my life beyond my afterlife involvements. I look at everyone differently now and know that they are me and I am them because we are all ONE. I project PUL to them and look for their reactions. Some smile, some look startled, and some are so deep into their own miseries that not much gets through.

Namaste
Mairlyn

thanks Cosmic but you have a lot of the same thoughts and feelings I have and I resonate with you also strongly. Rick, yes I did end up somewhere; actually it was a simile/future jump of this forum which stretches into the world where I ended up. I'll post some of it in a separate topic as then we can talk about Bruce's books on this thread, as it was reading Bruce and Monroe's books got me started on my own adventures.
I feel embarrassed to get off topic on Bruce's site. its really an honor to have found this forum five years ago.
I found reading books similar to Bruce's and Monroe's can instigate your own experiences just by making you curious if it's possible. Rick, you said your flight was exhilerating. same here. I think that since we are energy, not solid beings in flesh, that we were experiencing our energy moving that fast as the sum total of all our beliefs. don't know if thats correct, but I was always aware of myself being myself and not in process of disintegration, but there is something which takes care of us even when flying at the speed of light. in the moment of surrender you have a thought that you may be headed for true exstinction, but it didn't happen. this may have been your natural fear. in my opinion your angel is one of your guides who watches over you as you do obes and told you not to look back. the minute you look back gravity pulls you back into what is familiar to you; my thoughts. this does seem to be the planet of fear; the nearest opposite to love. someday Rick, we won't look back, even if it's attractive, and we'll see where we land!

same here Mair, I've had people say to me "are you for real?" they were expecting to be judged or put down as usual, and I don't do that to people; never did. but now anyone in my orbit seems to have been put there for me. I am no expert what PUL energy is, but forgiving prepares a way for it to show up. mostly forgiving self for mistakes. and thinking about us all being one really helped.

Rick, when I get finished with the book, I'll announce it on the announcement forum! yaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaa!!! so glad Bruce put up an announcement place. ;)  hugs, alysia

(Please don't think that when new questions are posted that previous discussions have ended. You all keep on!)

In this next section of AKG Bruce goes into some of the exploration techniques. PP 150---200  est.

Re: Focussing attention through (non-physical) senses)---
Touchable traits of the afterlife are sometimes the most startling, textures like Bruce's textural black gooey mass and "Flying Fuzzy Zone," and solids.  Have you experienced touchables and how did you deal with it?

Re:  Helpers---
The range of methods that Helpers use to become known to explorers is extremely varied. Although we've met some of Bruce's and maybe some of yours,  do you have memories how Helpers aided and perhaps surprised you?

hi there..my most real seeming (although doubts are natural when first learning retrievals) was when I touched Cami's leg, and it felt like real flesh out there. I know this occurred because I had asked the guide who had come to my physical location of my body to assist me, if I could involve some of my physical 5 senses in this retrieval so to make it "real" to me.

some of us see faces appear in our minds..I believe this can be similar to what Monroe calls phasing..an instant opportunity to jump into another dimension and explore or retrieve. or you can also allow doubts to overcome you and flip back into C1.

Trust and wonder appear to be conducive to the gaining of more experience.

along the lines of that thought; heres my thought for the day found in ACIM, a book I trust. "There is no challenge to a teacher of god. Challenge implies doubt, and the trust on which god's teachers rest secure makes doubt impossible."

I have decided!!!! yaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhaaaaaa!! to open my home up and teach ACIM with spirits guidance. (a recent dream I had, I was going to do that.)

heres another funny little story about guides, and the way they use symbology to get a point across in the dreaming mind.

I was sure I would publish last Feb. before that I was sure I would publish the same year I wrote my book. I admit, I should make a movie called funny girl. well, I posed the question to spirit "When? am I right?  in a dream I was in a motel; a temporary house of consciousness. I rushed to the door on my way to attend to business oblivious of many factors. there by the door was a guide blocking the door. not only that I stepped on him..he was laying flat on the floor..I stopped in my tracks and apologized for not seeing him there. he just grinned. when I woke up I had my answer. I had been ignoring to ask for guidance and was only in the beginning phases of pulling a book together. now the real work would begin. the work on myself. as you have to humble your ego to not be talking trash in books. the ego can get in the way. I'll never forget this young male guide with the silly grin on his face, teaching me to notice that guidance is all around me and I need to keep my mind wide open to be taught how to serve others thru my writing.

then there was the name Laughing Rain. I received the complete name in the hynogogic state. I thought it meant the name of one of my guides, as I'm sure we all have more than one guide dropping in on us with nuggets of info. here and there. I used the C1 imagination method to find out what the name meant. I found an indian fellow out there and asked are you my guide LaughingRain? he said no. I insisted he must be LaughingRain. I started to get agitated as he said no, he wasn't. I insisted, yes, you must be. finally he left as I must of freaked him out. I decided maybe laughing rain would show up some day. I find out a year later its an affirmation that was planted in my head to form a new self image, to laugh at the rain. it becomes a pen name, but first I needed a whole year or so to get used to the idea as I didn't think it fit me, and it's not quite serious enough; which I always thought I was a serious person!! lol. I would never have thought of this name in a million years as I thought it was too new agey. I thought folks had too many indian guides anyway...why not an Irish guide, or? everyone had indian guides...well, I've accepted it and I like it now. and I think it's true we all can get too serious at times and need to lighten up.

hugs, alysia

OK Alysia,
    I'll tell a Helper encounter I had that was 'light.' (Please excuse if I already posted it when I first joined, but maybe some newbies might read this.)
    As far as I knew I didn't have Helpers or Guides when this happened. I just had an annoying voice that occasionally offered comments that I didn't want to hear.
    One night I 'woke up' from a dream that I was going to try to puzzle out, get the meaning from. But a light was on in my closet and the sliding door was open. A sheet was hung across the door opening in front of the light. I couldn't remember doing that but thought I'd ignore it so I could think about my dream. Apparently I was on the wrong track with my dream interpretation because shortly some shadows appeared on the sheet, 2 women and a young man. By their gestures I could see they were laughing uproariously. They sort of hurt my feelings because I got the sense they were laughing at me. About that same moment I began to realize that my closet doesn't have a light in it and no way did I remember hanging a sheet across it, and what were 3 people doing in there anyway?!
Just as I thought I might get afraid, I got irritated enough to ask them who they were and why they were there. The young woman with braids was the only one I could hear clearly; she said her name was Polly and said they weren't really there. Then they (their shadows) stood in a row waiting for something but I faded away.
    Since then I learned that they were my Helpers and I've been working on my attitude--trust and courage?!--so that I don't demean them or make a fool of myself. They have advised that I not lose my sense of humor. They will not let me name them; The young fellow looks like an Alexander to me but he insists not. Writing this reminds me that I could learn alot more if I would pay more attention to them. Thank you for reminding me.
bets  

thanks Bets, I enjoyed reading that. its so like the way my own guides play with me.
I have a friend on another board who received a guide recently. he asked what is your name? the guide said we don't need to go by names on this side but if you insist you can call me Carlos, the name of my last life I held. so thats what he did. this guide will sometimes be in his car with him helping him to turn down streets to avoid delays and such. they really have their practical side as well.

as far as laughter, it helps to release negative energy, or stress build up.
I hear theres some aliens don't know what a sense of humor is!  I'm really trying to stay with your questions u kindly guide us in here. so I invite others to share any stories on topic and appreciate it! hugs, alysia

When I first read Bruce's book about the black, tarry stuff around the person, I 'saw' it in my mind as having been around me for the 28 years of abuse with my husband. It was like I was stuck in it in the physical. I was amazed. Since then, I have released all of it and am surrounded now by Light. ;-)

Regarding Helpers, I always knew they were there but didn't see them. They always surprised me by being there to take the person to the Light. Since then, I found out that my deceased husband is the helper that always goes with me on retrievals. The Helper is always on my right side and moves forward at just the right time.

Love, Mairlyn ;-)

Hey Chuckles, I think that if I had an Indian name it would be something like "RunningWithScissors"! LOL! (Actually I'm not much of a risk taker... unless it of course it involves self discovery.)

All joking aside... As Chuckles wrote: "Some of us see faces appear in our minds." This is exactly what I experience. Some of the faces are of people I know, and some are of people that I've never met. Possibly guides/helper/different aspects of my I/There disk. I haven't been able to take it any further however, I just see the faces. Usually the faces will appear to me before a blue background, similar to the sky.

As Marilyn said: "Helpers are there to take the person to the light". That's what happened with one of my relatives when he was chosen to escort his grandmother to the light." She couldn't do it on her own because of the fear that she had inside of her.

PUL,
Cosmic_Ambitions

yes, hello all. the helpers for me are usually more than one and I've noticed they can be to the left or right of me; they appear as forms but I don't decipher features of face, but for the most part are male; except for a few occassion I consider I have a future self appearing as separate from me and of course my future self is female..lol....just rambling here and not saying much, but shore is fun!!! I do notice whether they appear as young, middle aged or older, but mostly the guides all can look in their 20's and 30's and I've heard this is common. my grandmother has taken the appearance of being 20. she's gorgeous!  dying has it's good points I guess! strangely enough I do decipher features of physical people I've met later, but not the guides. the image of my grandmother was somewhat vague around the edges but I could make out a creamy complexion and black hair and a pretty face.

I did see the face of either a maintenance or fireman at the time of 911. very clear details and I was amazed; it turned out to be a retrieval while I was studying his face and the only time I phased that I know of. he had dark hair, a wide set brow, twinkling eyes and a gentle nature. I got him out of a bad mood first and then the helpers moved in, about 4 or 5 of them. I never get overworked in retrievals.

if anyone sees a face, I might suggest that you study the face and try to hang unto the image for more information to come in. thats all I can suggest in helpfulness right now. its not always a retrieval though, unless thats an objective. I did have that objective when I saw the man's face. I just didn't know what to do at first but stare at him and wonder.

RunningWithScissors...hmm..you are probably a hairdresser..hmm...a Cosmic hairdresser...cool!

hugs, alysia

Chuckles wrote:

"RunningWithScissors...hmm..you are probably a hairdresser..hmm...a Cosmic hairdresser...cool!"

"A Cosmic hairdresser!" LOL! ;D I've actually never cut hair before, but that's quite a take on it... I was kinda leaning towards kids always being told not to run with scissors... hence, "RunningWithScissors"! [smiley=beer.gif]

I'm going to try what you suggested about seeing the faces and holding onto the image to see what may transpire. It seems hard for me though because it is always just a brief flash of a face; nothing longer than say a 1/2 sec or so...

Hmm...? A Cosmic hairdresser... Hmm... "Ah yes, that's it!"... "Maybe this is a good place to insert the fabled bathtub image!" [smiley=bath.gif] LOL!

PUL,
Cosmic_Ambitions

http://images.bravenet.com/common/images/smilies/faint.gif

Hmm....  [smiley=lipsrsealed.gif]

(Sorry... back to staying on topic now.)

PUL,
Cosmic_Ambitions

you are just fine Cosmic...I was trying to be funny again with the little icon..it didn't work. :P  I just decided that it is the human's job to get off topic. no wait a second..has anybody noted that the whole world is off topic? Isn't having wars down through history off topic? maybe its just me. I looked back over my life now and I've always been off topic in every thing I did. but I wouldn't change a thing how it went. and I wouldn't change anything that is happening on this wonderful board. each and everyone of you just glow to me.
love you lots and I hardly know you!!! :D and remember me, my name is Chuckles.

blessings, I am going to make Bets get us back on topic!!! Bets, I'm just kidding, can't you tell? ;)

You might have to call me "Chuckles Jr." Chuckles, because you can really make me throw down a mean belly-laugh, and it's really good to feel that every now and again! LOL! ;D

Okay Bets, take it away! ;)

PUL,
Cosmic_Ambitions

P.S. Actually, maybe "Chuckles Jr." would get a little confusing for people... I'll just stick to Cosmic_Ambitions for now. (The Cosmic_Ambitions that chuckles at Chuckles!)  [smiley=bath.gif]

can someone tell me what Focused attention is and how to do the exercise? bruce mentioned it on astralpulse. don't tell me to get the book because my mom doesn't believe in these types of things. she won't change her mind AT ALL. she says it's the "devil" when she happened to see the astralpulse window and i forgot to close it.

hello Ehem. focused attention would be like concentrating to my opinion. it would be like staring at something and not thinking about it..just focusing on it and seeing what could be picked up from the object of attention. you probably do it in school when you concentrate on what the teacher is saying.
hope that helps. sorry about your mom hasseling you. seems like moms do that just automatically. I bug my kids too. I think you'll be ok. happy exploring! alysia

WOW, the bookclub has it's own forums now. This is fantastic Bruce. Thank you. ;-)

With Love,
Mairlyn ;-)

THANK YOU BRUCE!!!!!!!!!!! :-*   I have to go get my books out of storage now. this is most serious!  I am going to enjoy re-reading stuff.

my heart is full..bye!

First post in the new forum..humm...i like the interface..nice change.

Ok.. WOW..Thanks Bruce, the bookclub has it's own forums now. This is fantastic.Thank you.
IMPO should have been done year ago..lol. feels like the old days when we were discussing concept/experience regarding your books and how do do those exercises..hehe.
i remember having such a hard time with "The little finger exercise" until you point me out to the right direction.
Thanks again.

With love Romain

I guess this is my first time to post on the new forum as well.  I see a couple folks are now moderators!  That's great.

I was away on vacation for a few days so had a lot of catch-up reading to do, but would like to chime in a bit here so no one forgets me.

Alysia and Cosmic were talking about seeing brief faces and such.  I happened to just be thinking about this the last few days.  I wondered what those flashes mean.  I get them clearly but they only last a few moments.  Alysia, you said to concentrate on it to get information.  Then you also mentioned in your answer about focused attention that it is to concentrate focusing on something without thinking.  

I am glad to read this Alysia as it makes sense to me.  I find that I think too much sometimes and lose my focus.  

Hi there,
I remember an occasion where one of my helpers surprised me:

I came to one of my helpers in a mind journey, she is a kind of my nonphysical partner/wife, and when I came near to her and wanted to hug her, she turned me back! That never happened before. I was somehow puzzled, "Huh? What now?" I thought. She looked into my eyes. Then she said/communicated: "Didn't you forget something?" I immediately knew what she meant. I was embarassed. I forgot love. I had come to her in a dizzy, sleepy state, been acting more or less automatically, following a familiar pattern. She gave me a pretty reminder! To do what you do fully and honestly. I then got myself together, woke myself up, tuned into love, opened wide my nonphysical eyes, then she smiled and everything was good again.

Spooky