Greetings,
Would any of you who have read Bruce's books like to discuss various parts of them, sort of like a book club?
We would still be adding our own experience and questions , like "After you tried ----&---- from Bk 2 ,  what was the first experience you had from it?" But we'd not have to convince anyone of anything, it would just be sharing our individual take on various parts---?

Also, or more importantly, has this been tried before and did it work?

If we do it,  shall we start at the beginning or with a later book?

Bookie bets

I think it's a great idea. Bets and I have been talking (pming on this for awhile). Right now I'm at a disadvantage because even though I've read Bruce's first 3 books 6 times each, I don't have them anymore as I lent them out and never got them back. I'll be getting ahold of some again, used if possible. Anyway, it will be hard for me to discuss chapter by chapter until I get some more. I do remember a LOT though. LOL  I'll never forget how his first book made me feel. I had no idea this was possible or needed (retrievals). I was so hooked that I knew I had to go to The Monroe Institute. Of course it was my guidance that behind all this. ;-)

Anyway, lets get the ball rolling. ;-) ;-) ;-)

With Love,
Mairlyn ;-)

yes, good topic and very ON TOPIC I might add! ;D

well before we get started Mairlyn reminded me of how I felt when I first came here 2001. so I'll share a little.  frankly I was looking for a home base, as I'd just been kicked off ACIM forum. long story. sometimes getting kicked out of places is really a good thing! haha!

I read Monroe before reading Bruce and had a spontaneous retrieval experience back in the 80's. I had mostly forgotten all about it. it had had a profound effect on me at the time though, to think about spiritual paths. also it was because Monroe wrote his book that I'd had that first retrieval under my belt.
so as I was saying I'd been flogged by the ACIM administrator, and he's supposed to be a forgiving person. ok. I think I was just surfing the internet and TMI has a website. I think I ended up there browsing and that's how I found AKC.
not thru yet. still hadn't read his books but was in for a treat. I was roped in by the story of Curiosity, as coming directly from ACIM, I was lacking that kind of explanation, which satisfied me and made sense, like we are all one kind of sense. ACIM only reprograms the mind to get that sucker more open and searching. It then ends up with "God will take the final step." so there I was hanging out in the universe wondering what the final step was. actually, I don't even care what the final step is anymore...lol...but part of that final step was to wind up here. so then I almost fell out of my chair that Bruce had ACIM listed as one of the books recommended reading, and if he had not have listed the book, I might have been tempted to seek out another ACIM forum as I was deeply entrenched only in this path. I saw TMI and ACIM did not have to necessarily be two different paths.
so then I started reading the posts here and the discussion was about retrievals which jogged my memory of that 80's retrieval. I soon started devouring Bruce's books, which was like a delightful walk in the park for me, as if you've ever studied ACIM where u are constantly reprogramming yourself, you'd know what I mean. his books were understandable, honest, he wasn't hyping anything, he just told his story and as a writer I try to keep his style in mind for my book. as well, he talks of belief systems the same as ACIM.

so, trying to be brief.. ;D   I asked Bruce about my retrieval. he gave some advice that I could return to the scene and get my own answers that way and sure enough as I returned to the scene I suddenly began to understand what retrievals are, and how we are each other's saviors when we do this, in PUL, and are able to understand that forgiving is very important part of a spiritual journey.
if Bruce had not handed out a response to me at all, I probably would have started surfing for another home; it was the idea that he cared enough to respond to us, that inspired me to stay here and see if I could add my energy here as well. and here we all are, still trucking along...lol.....I just wanted to say, I am going back into the music field and may not be here as much as I would be otherwise. but its not because I don't care about this place. I do. each person seems like they came straight out of heaven to me.

http://images.bravenet.com/common/images/smilies/grouphug.gif

Sure sounds great! count me in :)

Sounds like a good idea for those interested.

I was wondering if this has been presented to Bruce? Should another forum be added for this book club?

Peace

Paradox

Let's see how it goes---

Re: VOYAGES INTO THE UNKNOWN, Bk I  1997

Bruce reports earlier visons of The Disk and Rods, then a visit to the Monroe Center where he is encouraged to think in images.---pp.1--50:

What do you recall were your reactions to his early visual experiences?
How long did it take after reading his accounts for you to have similiar experiences?
Do you think Bruce's imagery of a 'cable' and 'disk'  relate to his training in engineering and that a musician or chef might have seen other images with the same intent?

Choose any or all of the above or book I up to page 50 to comment upon....

I think this is a fun idea.  I have to admit, I've been tempted to start threads like this but never felt it would get picked up.  I think I've tried but no one responds.  Glad we have a group who is intereted now.   :)

Spooky,
"A Bruce Moen CookBook" HAHAHA  That was funny.   I've had Bruce's spaghetti which was quite delicious!  

Betson, I will have to join in the comments later today, have to go to the dentist right now.   :(

Have fun guys.  


Vicky

Paradox wrote:

Quote:

Sounds like a good idea for those interested. I was wondering if this has been presented to Bruce? Should another forum be added for this book club? Peace Paradox

Yes Paradox. I wrote to Bruce via email February 25 but didn't get an answer. Betson just wrote to him and he did respond that he's in Poland now for a few weeks but would take it into consideration (or words to that effect) when he gets back.

Betson and I had considered a locked forum to keep the 'naysayers' out, you know, the ones who argue and require proof for everything and who would get the threads way off track. However, we don't know if it's possible or feasible.

I'm very happy to see that there is interest in this and am really looking forward to see how this develops.

Love to ALL,
Mairlyn ;-)

Betson said:

Quote:

What do you recall were your reactions to his early visual experiences? How long did it take after reading his accounts for you to have similiar experiences? Do you think Bruce's imagery of a 'cable' and 'disk'  relate to his training in engineering and that a musician or chef might have seen other images with the same intent?

I recall that my reactions were of awe. Pure and simple. I thought that in order to see anything like Bruce had seen, that I had to go to TMI. I couldn't afford it right then, so I sent for the first 3 Waves of the home version of Gateway, the Gateway Experience. I worked and worked with those tapes everyday but I didn't get visuals but I did get messages and answers to questions. It wasn't until I actually went to TMI and took Gateway Voyage that the visuals came easily with the environment at TMI and the group energy.

When I got back from TMI, I bought my first computer, a Gateway, synchronistic since I'd just taken Gateway Voyage. My homepage became this website and THEN I learned that Bruce was doing workshops on how to do retrievals without using hemi-sync.  Then I found out about using imagination to 'prime the pump.' Then I began having visuals. Four months after taking Gateway Voyage, I did my first retrieval and this was 5 months before I took Lifeline which teaches how to do retrievals.

My whole life changed. I had a purpose, one of the purposes that I came into the physical to do. My life has never been the same since and I thank God everyday that I read Bruce's books and got on this path.

And yes, I do feel that Bruce's imagery of cables and disk did have something to do with his being an engineer. Bets, I'd never thought of this until you mentioned it. Thank you. You've opened my consciousness up more. ;-)

With Love and Gratitude,
Mairlyn ;-) ;-) ;-)

Ok I'm back, it wasn't too painful.

Mairlyn and Paradox,

I think it is a fantastic idea about having a separate forum for this kind of discussion, and if and when Bruce has time to join in any discussions that would be wonderful.  I'm sure he would love that opportunity to chime in and help explain things here and there.  Even us old timers need to hear things again, at least I do.  :)  But yes, it needs to be a forum that can't get side-tracked or attacked.

This is exciting!

Ok Betson, my answers:
______
What do you recall were your reactions to his early visual experiences?

It was definitely something I had to re-read before I could fully envision and understand, but I was impressed with his writing.  He always explains things so well.  But I wasn't quite sure what I was getting into when I started his first book, so I really took my time on it to absorb it all.  This was stuff I hadn't heard from anyone before, and I thought many times, "I can't believe this guy wrote this book".  It just really opened me up.  
________
How long did it take after reading his accounts for you to have similiar experiences?

I wasn't even done with the first book  before I was having visions I hadn't had before, (so less than a month).  This booked definitely had me pumped about exploring out there, and I couldn't wait to get on board.
________
Do you think Bruce's imagery of a 'cable' and 'disk'  relate to his training in engineering and that a musician or chef might have seen other images with the same intent?

Yes most definitely.  I think we will see what we can relate to and understand.  That is Perceiver and Interpreter and it is applicable on so many levels.  

Love, Vicky

Thank you for your response Marilyn.

Paradox

Hi Vicky http://images.bravenet.com/common/images/smilies/wave.gif
got my motor humming! lol. this is exciting and I agree and make a vague promise not to get off topic! ;D

we may not need a separate room though if we all just keep pumping this one thread, we can agree to keep all posters to the topic issues if they get off track as we are talking about another's written experiences and our thoughts of how we are affected by what we've read, we are not going to launch into an arguement of skepticism regarding a simple interplay of how personally we have been affected by the gift of another's works. my opinion anyway! now lets see if Alysia knows how to stay on topic! lol! this place is more fun than a barrel of monkeys!
______

What do you recall were your reactions to his early visual experiences?
_______ 
I agree with Vicky that I must re-read books before I can get out of them that is possible. the 2nd or 3rd time thru a favorite book makes me wonder why I missed seeing something the first time and is like more self discovery. my reactions to Monroe's book I already stated. it induced my own experience.  I now see a direct link to visuals and obe states. when I started reading Bruce, I was caught up in the thoughts and feelings that I had found a person who was similar to myself and was so happy reading it all that I just kept saying thanks for writing this down, now I don't feel so weird. I guess my reaction was gratitude. it seems when we read something we go along with that person in the imagination as if we are on that journey too and thats why reading can be fun. one of Bruce's excursions was of learning to leap into and out of water and I was having fun imagining myself do that too.
_______
did it take after reading his accounts for you to have similiar experiences?  
 ______
two weeks or maybe a month, I wasn't paying attention when I read something and when it happened precisely, but when I asked myself why and how had this exploration occurred so spontaneously or subjectively, I could recall I had reached an altered state within the book and had unknowingly created an intention with my curiosity to find out something about myself personally in relation to the writer's experience.
thats why I said, we can't possibly get into an arguement here, as this is about our personal reflections that stem from another's experience. Betson is obviously a genious to word these questions.
_______

Do you think Bruce's imagery of a 'cable' and 'disk'  relate to his training in engineering and that a musician or chef might have seen other images with the same intent?  
 ____
come to think of it, yes. this has to be correct, to mean we will all have our own symbology to interpret.
I think our C1 uses symbology to explain spirituality in the same way that we have language and conversation here, on the other side it is mostly a mental telepathy or rote being tossed back and forth. spirit vibrates faster, here we string our energy together with a bunch of words and tonal values and that takes more time. thus we come to see linear time as a reflection of an all time zone, just a very slowed down world of mass. on the other side its easier to see we are all connected as one.
hugs!  alysia
______

Hi there Alysia,

I don't mind getting off track now and then and having fun, and most of the time really good things come from that.  I tend to get off topic myself sometimes.  I just don't want those negative folks out there to squash our fun.  It has happened all too many times before. (PS--This place is a lot of fun, yes, but I don't know...a barrel of monkeys sounds like a LOT of fun... ;))  

I like your answers, they are well said.  I especially like "and had unknowingly created an intention with my curiosity..." Yes I agree!  This is exactly what happens--glad you pointed out that concept, it makes a lot of sense.

Love,
Vicky

thanks for noticing that Vicky. it was a revelation for me how we create our reality this way.
because at first it seems it all is just happening to you.

used to sit around and think why it was said we can't concentrate on anything for more than two minutes as the attention span is limited here. maybe I can help someone with this thought. never know.

we all want some of these experiences that we read about. human nature is very curious. so one day I decided to go past the two minute concentration span. man, suddenly you itch in different places! ha ha! meditation is like that. can't stay centered on an idea without thinking bout all kinds of stuff. but I went past the two minutes and that was long enough to set up an intention which came true...later....can anyone tell I used to be an impatient bloke? :( :-* ;D

What you are saying makes me think about a problem I have...well, it's not really a problem but a block I guess.  

Strong curiousity and strong intention seem to always prove to work great if they are more spontaneous.  

But if there is something I feel very strongly emotional about, it can be much harder for me to concentrate on it and I can't clearly set my intention.  I guess my emotions get in the way and I end up basically fretting about it.  Is this due to a form of doubt or worry?

Not all seems to be lost in that kind of situation though.  What I find I end up doing is spending time thinking it through each day and eventually I work through it but it is a slow and painful process when you have to sit with all those emotions.  

So then this has made me wonder...does our emotional fret and worry end up causing a particular result in a situation that might have otherwise had a different turnout?  I wonder how much "power" our thoughts have that we are not aware of (speaking in terms of our emotions).

Our thoughts have a lot of power and if we're worrying about something turning out right, that puts doubt right out there. One of the Laws of Manifestation is to let go of it and only think positive thoughts. See yourself getting whatever it is you want. ;-)

Love, Mairlyn ;-)

That's what I mean...It's easy to do when I am not very, very emotional about it.  I know it has to do with feeling that emotional connection.  So how do I work around that emotional aspect?  How does one rise above it to view the situation from a higher perspective?  I know it's possible because I've done it (with a job once), but for the life of me I can't explain the process.  Wish I knew the trick.

It's funny Vicky...wasn't it in at the beginning of Bruce's first book where he had to manage the emotional impact of the Oklahoma retrieval had on him? To get rid of energies that don't belong to him, to get a distance between him and what he tapped into, the strong emotions, unshielded.
In Bruce's 5th book there is the heart-energy-gathering exercise, and I had problems to do it, because when I thought of some people whom I love, there was so much other stuff connected to it, well much love much pain in that case! Better thought of a cat and a nice landscape then...

Hi people,
the first 50 pages of Bruce's first book, early Disc vision, engineer symbology(?), reader's similar experiences:

When reading his early disc vision, I knew what it meant, not in detail, but in general, the hierarchic sceme, must be something greater he discovered, something regarding himself, with his quest for answers of his three questions. I took it as symbolic, the disc, and depending on everybodies background, the symbols would vary, but nevertheless, that someone can see something special, detailed, a bit mysterious, together with his quest and this early daydream, and his OBE attempts, well, I was interested in reading on, but not quite sure at this point if it would become quite meaningful to myself, but it did, since he then came to the TMI part, and I saw there's something to learn for me!

Before I read Bruce Moen I read a book about NDEs, much esoteric stuff, parapsychology, and then Monroe, which made a real impact on me.
I had the tip to read Bruce Moen from a TMI trainer who fortunately lives just some miles away from me, must have been around 1999 or 2000. 2001 then I ordered Bruces first book, then the two others lol!

Then 2002 I took the Gateway Experience program, 2and a half day Focus 10 and 12 tapes, and I felt it worked for me. No clear pictures or movies, but relaxation, lights and voices, oh, I remember one little movie! A gardener at what seems like a big house of rich people. Don't know what it was. Then I had the Gateway Voyage in 2004 and that was it where it all started, I mean the stories I'm telling here of my mind-journies. GV definitely changed my life, but it probably wouldn't if I had not read Monroes and Bruce's books.

Note: I must say, Bruces first book starts (in style, a bit like the movie Lord Of The Rings 1) with a really heavy scene (The Oklahoma bombing retrieval), and I wasn't sure what was he talking about, then he slowed down, and started with the start so to say!
It took me awhile before I really got what he was doing, what a retrieval was, could have known better, because Monroe described that thing in his third book, but it seems to me now, that it was difficult to me to believe it at that time. But it simply was written too well and so much details, I really had to be convinced! I even got high blood pressure then, which normalized again after the Gateway Voyage.

Spooky

Hi Vicky..seems you are talking about setting intention..and its easy sometimes and not easy other times? that maybe if you are too emotional then you are blocking the intention?
yea, Bruce talks about this in one of his books. he was at TMI as I recall and expecting a good session and Bob came up and dashed his hopes.
tricked him I think for a good reason. when Bob did whatever he did, tweaked his mind, it released something, some expectatation perhaps, like a build up which clouds the internal view when exploring.
Bruce went back into the session with a more leveled out mind, because he had no expectations, then he had a very good session, much more so than if he had been too expectant of it.
does that make sense? probably not, lol!

well let me ramble a little. I used to meditate for peace of mind. but the more I mediated with this objective, the more that peace alluded me. my mind was always watching to see when peace would enter. with the expectation there, the mind was full of expectation and nothing else would I be aware of but this. when the mind enters a quiet place with no objective or expectation I think thats when things really start happening as it seems you're listening to god instead of talking to god, or your giving something instead of taking something. but its a precarious balance!  that reminds me of the little finger bending exercise Bruce talks about.
lol. whats he talking about? I sit here with my little finger in the air, lol, and actually bent it once literally, and I know dang well some of us here know what he meant about setting intention. I think I could talk about intention setting for ages, and still, I'd just be talking to myself, as we each must master this on our own. love, alysia

Greetings,
By Jove I think we've got it going! Your insights are adding rich dimensions to the reading!

If you are just joining this thread, we'd appreciate getting your responses to the first part of Bk I, "Voyages into the Unknown." (See discussion points on p.1)
Adding to those questions being discussed, 2 thoughts have also repeatedly emerged, whether we had experience with TMI, and whether we almost immediately sensed changes in our own body's energy system/ patterns.

After the weekend we'll be moving on in the book, plus offering our means of using or dealing with the energy changes these teachings have developed. If you still have your book 1 at hand and review Bruce's 'Lifeline" sections, perhaps you'll have questions or comments to add to next week's discussions.

All comments and experiences are welcome regarding these books.--Don't feel strange if you add your unique situation after any sort of pattern is getting shown.

Enjoy!

Hi Bets i would love to discuss bruces books with you and i will do later ,as i havent read any of bruces books yet ,i will have to go to the library and start reading them.God bless juditha

That's great Juditha. You will LOVE his books. ;-)

Love, Mairlyn ;-)

I just wanted to add a little to what's been said.

Spooky said:
Quote:

wasn't it in at the beginning of Bruce's first book where he had to manage the emotional impact of the Oklahoma retrieval had on him? To get rid of energies that don't belong to him, to get a distance

He starts out his first book with quite a bang, doesn't he? Beyond the fact that he was retrieving people, which I'd never heard of and the emotions that were generated, was the fact that he was doing these retrievals while eating at a restaurant. That to me is just mind blowing. Now I've done retrievals while looking at the computer screen or TV, but I've been alone, not a bunch of people around me eating and me eating too.

Another thing is that in doing retrievals in an emotional situation, I've never been emotional until the retrieval is done and then I have to release all the emotions taken on. I thought that 9-11 was going to be very emotional for me, but it wasn't until afterwards when it all hit me. We have to remember to release the emotions that we take on from others.

Love, Mairlyn ;-)

right Mair, that story of the restaurant retrievals had me going too! I was thinking no way Bruce! I can't chew gum and walk at the same time..so it had to be an altered state and I do know what an altered state is; as I'd had a few of those occur;  frankly, the whole room disappeared when I met my husband so I figured that's what he was talking about.
this is fun reviewing his books..thanks again for getting us going in the right direction Betson!

one other thing that ties in with this altered state in one of Bruce's books I was affected by his story of driving down the road and slipping into his thoughts on what reality is/was; and for a moment he wondered if he was really driving his car in physical reality or if he was in the other world; drat. the light turned red! he quickly grounded himself in time to avoid an accident, that ok, I'm in the physical! lol. I wish to thank Bruce, as I noted how often I needed to ground myself when I too am driving down the road, not being in the now moment and observing everything tangible around me.
I've been practicing being in the now moment for over 20 years and still it is a way of life, not just a practice, it becomes a way to open the mind to both worlds simultaneously and bridge the gap between conscious and subconscious to merge them. there in the subconcious area you become aware of the driver next to you who is about to turn without signaling, these two worlds ; thou and I, object and subject become one.  this brings up another question: Am I real? do I live here? others in my life from time to time have expressed to say "are u for real?"  ::) ;D

I don't know ;D  maybe I'm the tree in the forest that when it falls, you have to ask did it make noise as it fell, if no ear was there to hear it? ???

I crack myself up. hugs, alysia

Yes, Alysia I do understand now.  Thanks for labeling it with a single word I can relate to.  Expectation.  You are right, with a lot of emotion I have expectation which is a mental block.  I get it now!  I must go write that one down so I don't forget it again. This is a good thread.
:)

Vicky lol, did I say something right?  ;D

I reminded you then you just reminded me... :-*

woke up this morn with a message...one single word, just one word in a book can trigger all sorts of connections in the mind...so I'm looking at my book to see if theres anything rotten in it... ;D :D ??? ::) :P

hugs, alysia

Hi all,
Betson wrote: >>>whether we almost immediately sensed changes in our own body's energy system/ patterns<<<
I mentioned my blood pressure, but in that period of time, there came three things together for me: An important personal decision I had to made, then 9/11 which I saw live on tv, and Bruce's first three books which I read really fast.
I would say, the books changed my thoughts immensely. My thinking circulated permanently around the things I had read, I even started to think in English though I'm German. So, it was clear, it wouldn't be without effect what I had read. And I remember, I even thought it is too much for me. So, it was such fascinating, but it was hard too, so must have been that I was changing, and change often is hard.

Spooky

Thanks to you all for sharing your insights!
In the 2nd section (arbitrarily set at pp.50--100) of Bk I,
the author (!) describes his introduction to the various Focus levels and some of his reactions---
   Have you spent some time exploring various aspects /levels or are you relying on Bruce Moen's experience ? IYO, what does one gain by exploring the afterlife with no intent of making contact?
   Physical changes to a person's own system occur in order to accommodate changed perceptions and experiences. Bruce tells some of his, but how much change are you pioneers willing to accommodate? Is it an on-going process for you (how many years?) ?
    Individuality comes up in this section of Bruce's writing; Spooky and others have described elsewhere in these forums their perceptions of how one individual merges with a Greater Self---do you have another way of describing this 'phenomenon' ?
     Altho these questions come from Bruce's early writings, it may be hard to separate out what your first impressions were, so don't bother. We're all here to gain from experience.  Enjoy!

hi there...I have a list of the focus levels: I'll go get them.

Focus Levels:

Focus 10 -- Mind awake, body asleep

Focus 12 -- Expanded mind

Focus 15 -- No time, view past lives, future lives

Focus 21 -- The bridge to the afterlife

Focus 22 -- place where Alzheimers patients,
drug addicts, alcoholics, etc. hang
out

Focus 23 -- Afterlife where souls get stuck

Focus 24, 25, 26 -- Belief system territories

Focus 27 -- The Park, TMI There, Reception
Center, etc.

your attention is a function of your energy being-creative

your mind simply responds to your attention. (courtesy of Mr Cozzolino, author of the Path.)

I have never been a numbers sort of gal so whenever I needed to do a retrieval or explore I just closed my eyes and waited for an image then I asked guides to assist me with it. so I have no input in regards to the numbering of levels. I rather subscribe to a spider web theory of levels rather than the stacked on top image of levels..the spider web image means you sit in the center of your web and can feel resonations from each layer all at once.
hugs, alysia

Hi bookclubbers,
I reread today the passage betson suggested and I really was amazed (wait-Bruce would say "flabbergasted") how precise some of Bruce's experiences match with mine. His conclusions about the I/There or Disk concept is very close to what I got in some "readings" in my meditations. And when he told about his first retrievals and his doubts about it, it was almost word by word what I thought when I began to explore. And a lot of other things.

The "Prime the pump" principle is absolutely well put.

Betsons questions:
I "rely" on Bruce's descriptions in the meaning I trust them, but I also pretty much go my own ways. But, in this case, Bruce's books, Monroes books, and what they tell at TMI about the Focus Levels etc. the "Priming the pump" principle is powerfully working! I understand this that way: These informations are not necessarily "true", meaning they may not be objective, or valid for each individual in the same degree. But they are very good, and for many people I guess even necessary, things to open the gateway, to prime the pump. Once you have a variety of locales established in meditation/trance, you have done the main step and are able to explore on your own.
In my case the changes which began when I did the Gateway Voyage (it's the date I actively started making contact) is indeed an ongoing process. Doubts are still there, and when I'm beyond doubt there will be other things to overcome and work on. It's like a fire which burns until all has become ashes. I'm not sure what would happen if one would decide it's enough, no belief system reconstructions anymore, I have settled now. I guess it would work to some degree, but it would be more painful than to continue going on the change-including evolving process. By the way, talking about me, on the first look not very much has changed. Same appartment, no job changes, this stuff. But inwardly, and people who know me of course notice that indeed I've changed a lot.
I can't really provide a different story of merging with the higher self than Bruce told, of course it's not the same, but my experiences are similar.

Spooky

in regards to priming the pump I have done that sometimes, but my favorite way of exploring I got from Bruce's books has to do with the phrase "to play along."  when doubts say, u are being silly, u are wasting time, you should go do some work...these are doubts and I would remember that I was "playing along."

it is very easy if u are a person who likes to have fun anyway, that "playing" can mean that literally you allow yourself to enjoy it.

if I were to say how I have changed since 2001, this is interesting that I know of several others who began spiritual journeys from around 1999 to 2001.

there are too many changes to really list here, but one I really really enjoy is meeting strangers in the street or stores as I've turned into an extrovert to enjoy people. I think I have greater self confidence than I ever did in my whole life simply because this is my chosen path and of course PE and retrievals had a lot to do with it.
love, alysia

So, putting together alysia's and spooky's responses, would you say we would be true to the book's guidance if we imagined our own settings (or let our own wettings develop),  as long as they cover the possible uses of Bruce's, and then 'go there' in a playful mood, ready for whatever encounters develop?
bets

Quote:

Have you spent some time exploring various aspects /levels or are you relying on Bruce Moen's experience ? IYO, what does one gain by exploring the afterlife with no intent of making contact?

I've spent 5 years exploring various aspects/levels. IMHO, what one gains from exploring the afterlife with no intent of making contact, expands my mind/consciousness/everything about me. Discovering for oneself that there are many realms is so exciting. ;-)


Quote:

Physical changes to a person's own system occur in order to accommodate changed perceptions and experiences. Bruce tells some of his, but how much change are you pioneers willing to accommodate? Is it an on-going process for you (how many years?) ?

It is an on-going process and I know it will continue. Five years as stated above. I, as an explorer, am willing to accommodate any and all changes and looking forward to more. ;-)


Quote:

Individuality comes up in this section of Bruce's writing; Spooky and others have described elsewhere in these forums their perceptions of how one individual merges with a Greater Self---do you have another way of describing this 'phenomenon' ?

To me, no words can describe it.  :o Except that maybe it fulfills an inner knowing and makes one feel more complete. ;-)

Love, Mairlyn ;-)

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So, putting together alysia's and spooky's responses, would you say we would be true to the book's guidance if we imagined our own settings (or let our own wettings develop),  as long as they cover the possible uses of Bruce's, and then 'go there' in a playful mood, ready for whatever encounters develop? bets

Yes. ;-)  I never had to imagine anything as it always unfolded before me/with me. However, at one of the TMI programs, we were to go to Focus 27 and visit the place where souls (curls) were lined up to leave for earth lives.  I had a strong visual in my head from reading Bruce's books. When I got there, what I saw was exactly the same visual that I got from reading the book and realized that I was 'having Bruce's experience' and not mine. I got so frustrated that I screamed out NO, I want my own experience. Well, the scene disappeared and nothing happened. I had so been looking forward to this, seeing for myself and it really irritated me that I was not seeing it for myself.

So, over time I've thought about this a lot and wondered if I should have used imagination. I had no idea that my altered state (hemi-sync) would show me Bruce's experience.  Then I got to wondering if maybe that was the 'true' experience and I had screwed it up by yelling NO.  I never have gone back to see if I'd have a different experience. Maybe I should. ??? ;-)

Love, Mairlyn ;-)

thats really interesting Mair. I do wish you'd go back and see if there's more to that image than was first revealed.

your story reminds me of something that happened to my mother. forgive me if I repeat myself. mother sat in an auditorium where all had come to be healed of infirmity by spirit. the heat of spirit came to her varicose veined legs. all her life she had lifted heavy items and so had these veins. as she realized she was being healed she shouted NO! Not me! heal my mother (my grandmother) immediately said spirit, as you wish, so shall it be. the heat stopped, the veins remained as they were. my grandmother did not receive a healing either, so my mother realized she had shut down what was happening through choice. I think what I learned from mother that day, is its ok to be selfish, as theres enough healing for everybody and maybe Nanny wasn't ready for it, as only a percentage received healing anyway.
Betson and all,
yes, imagining your own "place" is one of the first things we are supposed to do, as it is to me, a sort of preparation, a place to start out from.
I also like to imagine the library from time to time, and theres a park next to it with stone benches. it's whatever you like to imagine, a lot of people are drawn to beach places...it's whatever can get you into a relaxed place, then the scenery may change.
I considered the imagination to be a back door into the subconscious. the front door is logic or expectation, kind of like eating leftovers..lol...the back door is a smorgasboard of fine eating.

cheers, alysia

Nice post Chuckles! :)

I like your ideas about imagination... (and it's "not" just because they match up with mine!) LOL! ;)

What I'm about to write is a little off topic from the thoughts that have been building up (so please forgive me beforehand), but I felt I'd share it anyway, beings it's related to Bruce's books... and this is the "Bruce Moen BookClub" thread, so here goes:

I remember reading in one of Bruce's books about a focus level on the other side that included an area which is dedicated to creating ideas, and new "devices" to be incorporated/assimilated from spiritual to physical. (i.e. it's some kind of "events/timeline" coordinating area... At any rate, I remember reading that he was "experimenting" with this "apparatus" and that there was something involving the design/refabrication of the scalpel which doctors use. It's like the "machine" would take the existing design of something, and run in through a myriad testing/trial and error until the appropriate design came up which satisfied all of the fundamental; most essential; most useful "tweakings" of this design to get it to function at its most absolute "best" levels possible.

Here's where it gets weird... I was just reading in a Popular Science magazine that some computer scientist has created this "super" computer which is like a bunch of smaller computers linked together to give some unbelievable output/calcuations/algorithms... He designed this "super" computer to serve one purpose... It's job was to calculate the best possible design for any given object. In fact, he just ran the design for the antenna through it, and came up with this awkward twisted design which actually picks up the most frequencies through the air... It is FAR better than the previous design. This "super" computer that he uses works in exactly the same way as the "apparatus" that Bruce so vividly described in one of his books that he had encountered whilst OOB.

It gets me wondering that maybe in the event/timeline coordinating area that Bruce had visited... Maybe the idea for this "machine" was placed into this guy's consciousness so that he could bring it to physical fruition...

Any thoughts?

PUL,
Cosmic_Ambitions

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It gets me wondering that maybe in the event/timeline coordinating area that Bruce had visited... Maybe the idea for this "machine" was placed into this guy's consciousness so that he could bring it to physical fruition...

I'm sure it was as all things physical start out as an idea over there. This is why, or so I have read, several people will invent the same thing at about the same time.

Love, Mairlyn ;-)

>>>So, putting together alysia's and spooky's responses, would you say we would be true to the book's guidance if we imagined our own settings (or let our own wettings develop),  as long as they cover the possible uses of Bruce's, and then 'go there' in a playful mood, ready for whatever encounters develop?  
bets <<<

RAMs and Bruce's books offered to me new perspectives, I thought of things I never have thought of before. But as they do this, they also are a frame. A framework of thoughts can narrow, and it can provide paths to the previously unknown which weren't there without those pioneers. So what I did was to explore within the framework I had from RAM, Bruce and the TMI and fill it with my own personal experiences. More and more I noticed I went to places that doesn't exist on the maps others had drawn, so I have begun to develop my own framework.

What Mairlyn told of can be a source of doubts. Once you notice you have experienced what you've read elsewhere you of course question about the genuity of it. On the other hand, we know both, the general lazyness of human minds (or do I speak only for myself here?!), and the effectivity which can go along with this lazyness, this is to take something which is already there and use it as an environment to get your own experiences. This includes sometimes we can realize the impressive things, such as a nice certain landscape, or to see spirits in certain details, like maybe others have reported it already, are frequently not the main things for us to look at, but the tiny, subtle, new ones. So, to look at differences to your own experience and what you have become known from elsewhere would be the appropriate to do, and, like Bruce says, to look at the unexpected details.

Spooky

Hi again,
regarding Cosmic Ambitions' question I would say the same as Mairlyn. If you believe we share a common consciousness then it would be conclusive to say someone picked something up from this consciousness pool.
There is this new type of technical planning and development, Computer Aided Construction, and a part of it is the virtual optimation. In former times it was "unscientific" to develop with the "trial and error" method. Ther had to be the full set of formulas and then we had to calculate and get the best solution. It turned out some problems are just too complex for this method, and even worse, it came into view for some problems we just don't have a full set of formulas, but now we do have computers, and the old "trial and error" method came back, now with billions of iterated steps of trials. So, Bruce is an engineer, and has the mind to understand those things, so he was able to get those thoughts in a meditation. If these thoughts "are" somewhere already, or if they must be thought to be, who knows? It's maybe like the wind, where is it when it's not blowing?

Spooky

Thanks spooky & Marilyn, I liked your ideas! They make a lot of sense!

PUL,
Cosmic_Ambitions

in the interest of keeping this thread going, Betson mentions merging with higher self and what our thoughts would be on that. I don't believe Bruce uses the term higher self anywhere in his books, or does he?
he does mention PE experiences and having a creature to show him the ropes..which to me is like shaman stories....I totally endorse it. expecially after going out there and becoming a duck and a dog once...lol....nobody needs to prove anything to me..
plus my sister entered the body of a crow once.after she died..mother was ignoring her spirit visitations you see....she had to resort to drastic measures...sorry if u guys are sick of my stories just tell me. :-*  Betson, higher self. be careful not to form a separation in your mind between your higher self and your C1. we automatically do this. we see the word "higher" to mean above us. therefore unreachable. we actually see the image in our minds of sky and clouds and planets and space. and thats just a movie. your higher self is much more with you and aware of every little thing you think about then we can understand. but its not higher in terms of linear space. HS may vibrate faster...it may not have any belief systems to lug around, but its right where you are whenever you feel love and even when you don't feel anything.
love, alysia

Alysia, no don't stop telling your stories.  You give us gems of insight.  :)

About your mother's veins--maybe she wasn't ready for healing?  There is something to be learned from each experience.  We can look at her experience and learn from it--like you said, it is not selfish to receive healing because there is plenty to go around.  But she must have needed to learn how to ask/accept healing which she wasn't able to do at the time.  


There is a lot I want to respond to on this thread...have to figure out how to sort what I want to say here.

Ok, between Mairlyn's answers and Spooky's and Alysia's, I think what I'm realizing is that it is OK and very necessary to allow ourselves to use and to trust a framework of experience that has been previously set by another's imagination, for example when Mairlyn said she got the same vision of Bruce's experience.  Perhaps, Mairlyn, you received it that way as a starting point, and maybe if you had trusted it and ran with it more could have unfolded for you?  (I don't want to make you feel like you failed, not trying to do that by any means.  I'm just trying to learn from this).  Ok, so that fits with "priming the pump" and with "playing along".  I too love both these concepts and I find they apply everywhere.  

I have had visits by spirits in the dream state and I find that they have to "play along" with what I'm dreaming so that they fit in with my experience.  And then when and if I recognize them for what they are, my experience and perception changes and I gain more than I thought possible.  The dream, I realize, becomes more than just a dream.

We also learn how to play along during retrievals, so that we are helping the individual see and accept us and their situation.  It makes me think we are blind to what is truely around us unless/until we experience something that opens our eyes and makes us aware, but we have to be the ones willing to see.  

My husband always tells me I'm a control freak, and it's true but not in a bad way.  I don't control others but I like to be in control of myself and what happens to me.  I hate surprises and I hate not knowing what to expect, even on a normal every-day basis.  I think that is why even as a young child I became so very good at using my imagination.  I always had to make up in my mind all the possibilities of what might happen or what could happen in any given situation.  In that way, I could be prepared for how to react or how to feel, what to say, etc.  I still do this even now as an adult, it is habit I guess.  I was very psychic as a child, always knowing what would happen next and always feeling guilty when something bad happened, like I created it myself.  I wonder if psychic ability is what caused me to become this obscessive day dreamer.  I think that I used my imagination to plan things so I could be in control, at least in my fantasies.  I've always been a fantasizer and daydreamer, always making up situations and stories in my mind.  I'm sure I'm not the only one who does this, it's just that I do this a lot.  I always wonder what kinds of unconscious intentions am I setting?  Could I be creating things that get experienced by others?  How does this affect those Consciousness Workers out there?  Do I drive them bananas?

Some of you may remember several months ago on a PE thread I mentioned I had tried very hard to do a visit to the crystal by using my imagination and priming the pump so to speak.  I made up in my mind what TMI looked like, made up what it was like to look at the crystal, and made up in my mind that Bruce would join me and guide me along.  Suddenly I see him in my mind, he shows up beside me, holds my hand and says "thanks for inviting me, it's nice to be here".  In my mind, in my imagination, I turned to look up at him (as he's so much taller than me) and I was shocked because I know at that point that I was not in control of making this up anymore.  I see him in my mind.  Then Bruce playfully says, "Ok, you jump first!"  And at that point I think to myself that I didn't plan on having him say that (in my imagination, as I thought I should still be in control of this), and then I thought that I don't even know what he said means.  It is because I didn't trust this new situation and play along with it that it ended abruptly right then and there, and I came back to physical reality.  I wish I had trusted and went with it and I could have had fun and learned something.  But my "control freak" nature, as my husband puts it, made me cancel out this whole process I had so easily set up.

It makes me realize that it is very easy to use our imaginations.  We have the ability to do this, to make so many things possible.  

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Perhaps, Mairlyn, you received it that way as a starting point, and maybe if you had trusted it and ran with it more could have unfolded for you?

Yes, I agree.  There was another thing that we were going to experience after getting there and that was to have a 'meeting' with our guides that helped each of us decide where to incarnate and what we planned to achieve/experience in this life.

This mainly was the reason why I was so excited about this journey and I believe was what was behind my frustration at seeing Bruce's vision and not my own. I should have gone along with it.  At that time, I didn't know that my husband and I had chosen this life together. All I wanted to do was find out why I had chosen to be with an abusive man.

Love, Mairlyn ;-)

I should add that I have since found out why I chose this life with him. I should have left him. My learning in this life with him was to bring in my feminine self, my divine feminine which I am still working on.

Love, Mairlyn ;-)

hi Vicky, I can't imagine you driving anyone bananas or being a control freak. maybe you're a neat freak; everything in its place and tidy, thats not the same as being a control freak. my family who has an entirely different view on life than I called me a control freak. not! lol. just because I wanted my niece to go to school and not get pg at 13, suddenly its convenient to label the aunt a control freak.
not to get off topic, its so easy.  Imagination. remember it starts off with image. then it can turn into the collective image area. images we all share and understand. each image tells a whole story. like a picture has a thousand words around it. the theory is our higher self knows everything, we just have to access it or open up to it. i think Bruce would say "jump." he did a lot of jumping in his books is the reason you saw something which was a true message for you. and you blinking out is normal, as maybe you couldn't believe you were actually doing a PE and it was working. alot of us blink in and out while doing this... its like we are flickering lightbulbs...lol....now I'm there, now I'm not...where did it go? I know I just saw something dance by....
hey Betson...get us back on topic...I'm running out of ideas....love, alysia

oh, mom thought she was being loving to nanny, or maybe she was being, trying to control spirit? sometimes we think the highest love is to sacrifice ourselves on its alter...whatever it is she learned something valuable or she wouldn't have repeated the story as much as she did. she also had a stubborn streak in her which maybe that prevented her to accept healing. when u get a healing from spirit it makes you feel like you didn't earn it..my mom was the kind of person felt she had to work hard for everything, and healing is humbling experience ..guess she never was humble about anything...hmm. my nanny works her over good though! they have a neat relationship.

Hey Chuckles! :)

I envy your 13 year old niece to have an Aunt as knowledgable about our reality! I'm sure you guys will have "plenty" to talk about as she gets older!

I sure could've used relatives that had a more open mind about the questions that I asked when I was growing up... But, I guess everything happens for a reason... :-/

With regards to imagination... I've noticed, and maybe it's just me, that a lot of the images that I get/receive seem to usually start off as brief flashes/glimpses. They will sometimes, more often than not, occur out of the corner of my eye; and make me go, "I know I saw something, but why is it always so brief?" "I couldn't even really make it out." In fact, just last night while my eyes were closed, I got the "flashlight" effect that spooky2 was talking about... I've had it before, but this time it lasted longer. It kind of felt like "something" was trying to open up in front of me, but then it stops. Maybe I'm not focused enough to keep it going, I'm not sure. Or maybe I'm focused too much.

It seems from what I've read in Bruce's experiences, like his encounters with White Bear... that a lot of things that are imagined usually require one to almost let the imagination process unfold before you, and to not let previously held notions restrict you from flowing with this imagination... I feel like there is no such thing as paddling upstream with regards to imagination. It's like the tide, where you flow with it. It's much easier and more fun that way. Although hard sometimes to think it could be that easy. (I'm still working on it.)

PUL,
Cosmic_Ambitions

P.S. I use to have a really good imagination when I was little... I remember after seeing The Wizard of Oz, I could've sworn I saw the wicked witch of the west flying around in the room on a broomstick! LOL! (Luckily however, nothing could harm me as long as I had my blanket pulled over my head!) ;)

CA, your comments are very helpful and show how BMoen's writings bridge into our lives. His ideas are alive, it seems, since they grow in meaning as we grow. Any conversation in this 'book club', can be from Bruce's words or our experience lived under the influence of reading his books. (LUI--in the US, DUI is a much more frequently determined factor, unfortunately.)
I have trouble writing this next step because I have not yet had experiences of my community of selves that make up a whole. I can 'see' symbols in the Disk, or the head of a sunflower, a whole field of sunflowers turning watching the sun. But to recognize a person the way Bruce recognized Joshua, or like spooky learned of the hunter's son, this has not happened to me yet. So my words may be awkward.
---Should a person review their dreams for characters or content that might have had more meaning than they realized, seeking our Joshuas?
---re: p. 160 in "Voyages," Bruce asks if the Colonel he met in the afterlife is an aspect of himself, {or I suppose a 'separate soul' needing retreival}, but is told the Colonel represent 'a commitment.' How do you determine each time who/what it is you are meeting in the afterlife?
---Do you find yourself in daily life seeking out souls who might be a part of your group self? If you seem to have had such encounters, could you share how you determined they were part of your group self? (Understanding that the brotherhood of humanity spans all groups.)  
I've never read books that are so alive. I admit the first time thru they seemd just like books , books that made me feel joyful for some reason, but with your comments they now seem even more alive with spirit--thank you!

HI all http://images.bravenet.com/common/images/smilies/wave.gif
Betson thanks again for the thoughts about our Joshuas and our selves of variable dimension both past and present. I think spirit is using you to help me get my thoughts in order. this reality is merging with "out there." I/there. someday we will understand it scientifically, that the human in a body here when u get into a mediative state and start talking to your I/there, you can feel like a mere hologram of the self which is "there." it's ok, just be aware it can cause a little belief system crash, but all of my crashes have been exceedingly gentle, as a matter of fact I sometimes had to ask if I was going thru a crash, as I only knew the feeling of confict going on within.
concerning this subject I am reminded how well I took to Bruce's "talk to your belief system as if it were a person and talked back to you."
it does talk back I found. when you talk to your conflict and ask questions your intention must not be to kill your belief, as it has a survival instint, like your ego does. I followed Bruce's thought to ask it why it was serving me for what purpose; as the system thinks it serves a purpose that you set up. when the conversation is over, you simply ask it to discontinue serving you and say thanks to it rather than get all upset that you've been believing something that was so self serving but now you look into another direction which serves you even better.

I suppose if you had a Joshua in your house of consciousness then you could approach in the same manner as if it were a viable life form and begin to converse with it. as you proceed the life form might say something back to you with produces an"aha" moment which causes you a feeling of understanding yourself.  I've found increasing awareness this way but it's over years and of returning to the situation of my obes and paranormal experiences to milk them further. the same with re-reading books, you get more out of them. Dreams are very close to obes and even will begin to merge so that you can't tell if it's an obe or a dream after awhile, and doesn't matter as what you bring back in the way of info, self discover, remembrance of how you set yourself up, these things are what matters when learning to create your personal reality. I think a dream log is a good idea for everyone and especially when your dreams begin to portray what you intended them to present to you...more info about the road you are traveling down. hugs, alysia

so true Cosmic, the interpretor part of us just does its thing...according to previously stored data.
yeegads we are mere software sometimes...but it's fascinating being a computer head I must say...
I'm fascinated with my interpretor although it's gotten me into plenty messes.... ;D

well I think my niece may appreciate me more now, then she was able to back then and my sister would not allow me to impart my knowledge...lol....families; you can't live with them, yet you can't get rid of them. so u end up on your knees....

Vicky said: Ok, between Mairlyn's answers and Spooky's and Alysia's, I think what I'm realizing is that it is OK and very necessary to allow ourselves to use and to trust a framework of experience that has been previously set by another's imagination, for example when Mairlyn said she got the same vision of Bruce's experience.  Perhaps, Mairlyn, you received it that way as a starting point, and maybe if you had trusted it and ran with it more could have unfolded for you?  (I don't want to make you feel like you failed, not trying to do that by any means.  I'm just trying to learn from this).  Ok, so that fits with "priming the pump" and with "playing along".  I too love both these concepts and I find they apply everywhere.
______

yes I think it's ok to start off with someone else's vision. We've done this down thru history.

I started off with Bruce's vision from his book, Curiosity's trip to the Father, or from the father.
I had finished ACIM (A Course in Miracles) and it had told me to forget the book now, and go and seek an experience. It had said that God would take the final step for me. it makes u wonder what the final step is. so I went to seek an experience. came here and read Curiosity story ( I highly reccomend this story vision) and something clicked. noticed that the philosophy here is that we are experience gatherers on Earth. period. don't try to make it anything else than what it is...an experience. and all experiences are temporary. there is nothing on this earth that is of eternity. so I resonated with the curiosity vision even though I've not had such a vision, I adopted it as a perfect roadsign to follow until I get my own vision. and so Mair, if you had an image that was somebody else's I'd say thats just fine to explore it.

wrote on May 12^th, 2006 at 12:23pm:

---Do you find yourself in daily life seeking out souls who might be a part of your group self? If you seem to have had such encounters, could you share how you determined they were part of your group self? (Understanding that the brotherhood of humanity spans all groups.)

Great Thread guys, keep it up i really enjoy reading your thoughts/answers to the Bruce cook book.

Regarding seeking out souls. no i don't particularly search for them myself , but when i do feel an affinity to a  person that i meet a stranger with a little twink in his/her eyes, it does make me wonder why? Especially when i feel very close to them without having met them before.I would consider these people part of my soul group or at least i hope they are, and then i try to find out more about them, espedcially spiritually and see if we really click sot to speak. There are people/persons that you vibrate in unison with and those i feel that i want to meet/know them almost like an unknow force attracting us together. There a phrase for this and i forgot it...lol  
Anyhow here're my two bits.

Pul to you all, Romain
::)

hi Romain, maybe the phrase is dejevous?

I think theres another vision I adopted. Bruce had this one too. a bunch of folks were telling him they loved him. and he decided all of these were his disc members. I think I decided somewhere I was also in his disc but to me it's part of my philosophy to be at one with all mankind, and there can be 1,000's in the disc. with so many in the disc, I never think about numbers plural. I just think about the number one, that we are all the number one.

Alysia; no i was thinking more on the line of likes attracts likes, more or less

As for dejavue, to me is when i go somewhere  and all of a sudden i feel/sense/know i've been in this situation with those people or some of them in this or that place and know what will be ask, exemple, a question; and if i answer that question from that person there will be a turmoil kind of. I know i've been there before and went through the same scenario.
Ex: last week went to see a friend of mind at the college and while i was sitting there waiting for her to finish her conversation on the phone, the feeling/thought/sensation that i perceived was that i been here before doing the same thing and waiting for her to finish and knew what she was going to as me about and knew what i should answer before she did ask. Which i did and she did say, i was just going to ask you that ...how did you knew??? that has been happening quite often lately. Does it means i travel in time (future) unknowingly in my sleep? That's what i means by dejavue, or maybe i'm wrong.?

Comming back to Bruce book, i remember about the story of his Disk members, one thing that i learn from him is that our HS (Disk) or whatever you want to call it, is closer that we think, I used to think that it was so far out of my reach, always thinking that it was higher up that me when i was meditation, like thinking ...you up there...like i was in the basement and it was on the 50th floor, took me a while to understand about vibration, and really understand that it's all in our vibration, it's within us, NOT outside of us..
Hope this make sense..LOL

Romain

well this is a hard concept to grasp since most of us believe we are in linear time, but if all lives we've lived are happening now simultaneously with this one we are holograms or probes of our disc/higher selves, projected here a a beam of light would be projected from the mind of all that is.

thats why we keep having belief system crashes...lol..so then I see life as a movie I star in my own life but I'm not really all here. and so when you get the dejavue its because it already did happen that way and you are now placing the body in that situation which has already happened in order to experience that situation with the body.
my guides said we are here for the experience of being in body. now you start to remember where you came from and who you are; so each time you get a dejevue your memory is activated.

hugs, don't take my word for anything, but science is catching up with us soon and its going to be fun! alysia

Great post Chuckles!

PUL,
Cosmic_Ambitions :)

Greetings Romain,
I can't recall if this is described in Bruce's books or not, but I'm really curious--
Those feelings of dejavue you describe---could they also happen when you meet someone special from your disk at a pre-arranged point in your ' journey of life', and the inner turmoil you feel  is you awaiting the pre-arranged comments you somehow recall have been set up for this spiritual milestone?
If we were only to have a few of these encounters during one lifetime, do you think the anticipation and excitement you feel in a dejavue moment could come from your inner recognition that the spiritual is operating in physical matters?
bets

Come to think of it I don’t recall it either, sorry if I took a turn there.. :-[
As to your questions about someone special: I truly believe that everyone I meet is special in one way or another, it’s just a matter of finding the why they were put in my path at that times of my spiritual development or everyday life. Since we did choose to come here on this ELS, which was also pre-arranged and talk/discuss with our pre-assessment committee.. Those turmoil/feeling could very well be a way of HS to awake myself (signpost) along this life time to become more aware of who I am. This is something that I really have to pay more attention to and I will.

Inner recognition that the spiritual is operating in physical matters?

A little story here: Beside my hourse where I live was a beautiful Alder tree, where the blue Jays come a build nest and eagle perch on, must have been there for at least 30 yrs, young but old for an Alder, one person with the permission of the landlord came and cut it down on afternoon.
I was there when they cut it down, and felt sorry for the tree, thinking all sort of things like…the birds/eagle could not perch on it and the atmosphere and all the vegetation being cut down etc..i’m sure you understand  what I mean.
Anyhow, an Elder person seeing me there feeling sorry for the tree approached and started a conversation, seen that guy a few time before; he said you don’t like what he doing, don’t you…I said no, then he started talking/telling me the story about Alder over 30 yrs old rotting from the inside out, and how dangerous it could be for the houses close by, and how by cutting it down it will help the other tree (Alders) around to grow bigger and healthier..!! I didn’t know that part, or never really thought about it, all I was thinking was destroying the forest…he also said that it not going to waist, people will use the bark for medicine (the one who still know how to used it) and the rest will be divided amount the members of the community as fire wood..So he said..don’t be sad..
Does the spiritual operate in physical..i would say yes, but it’s all in how we see it.
It’s a lonesome journey sometimes, but there always help when you need to understand.
With love, Romain

Now let's return to Bruce book... ;D

I loved reading this dear Romain. Thank you.

Love, Mairlyn ;-)

Thank you, Romain.
bets

have to agree I like Romains Adler tree story too..reminds me of so many situation in life where you have to look hard to find the positive but it's there somewhere...love, alysia  thanks Romain, you're  peachy!  whoops, my 50's aspect is here again. hope you can deal with it. hugs, alysia

wrote on May 12^th, 2006 at 12:23pm:

I can 'see' symbols in the Disk, or the head of a sunflower, a whole field of sunflowers turning watching the sun. ---Should a person review their dreams for characters or content that might have had more meaning than they realized, seeking our Joshuas?

Betson; could you please elaborate a bit more on the part here, when you say i can see symbol of the Disk? Somehow i don't get that part, how are the symbol, colours/shapes/smells and how do you perceived them?

Page #122 vol 1- "If Joshua were to incarnate again before complety healing he would carry the memories...'
Does that means that since the HS is a combination of the ALL, that pain ...in other words..is felt by all of our Probes and our disk, or is it just the "INDIVIDUAL PROBE.?? because it also says it will carry the residual memories into future physical body also !!

With love, Romain

Greetings---Romain asked:
"Betson; could you please elaborate a bit more on the part here, when you say i can see symbol of the Disk? Somehow i don't get that part...."
Yes, I can see why, because I mispoke. I meant that I can understand how Bruce's disk can be percieved as Higher Self; just as can spooky's vision, which was described elsewhere as like a sunflower. I did not perceive them in Focus 27 unfortunately. Also elsewhere people have written that rising above the HS one can see more than one HS, so partially for that reason I included field of sunflowers. They affect me strongly.   All of this was significant to me because whenever on C1 I've seen a field of sunflowers, something in me forces me to stop and be in awe. The scent of unripe but fully formed head of a sunflower is hypnotic to me. This is not an early imrint from my childhood because where I grew up no sunflowers were grown.  --It was the first time I understood that a 'vision' and a 'version' are so closely related and both are true since they only represent the Truth. Previously I thought each important thing only got one symbol and by recognizing that one symbol we were all drawn together. So my answer was mixed up with my own misperceptions, but it was at a moment of opening awareness for me.

Also Romain stated:
"Page #122 vol 1- "If Joshua were to incarnate again before completely healing he would carry the memories...'
" Does that means that since the HS is a combination of the ALL, that pain ...in other words..is felt by all of our Probes and our disk, or is it just the "INDIVIDUAL PROBE.?? because it also says it will carry the residual memories into future physical body also !! "

Surely it must refer just to the individual, for how could we carry more than we encounter on our own? Heavenhelpus, we would have to be Christ-like, or become bowed and hardened like a beetle!  And there's the proviso that only  if   Joshua/ Bruce does  not  accept the healing would the wound continue. They wanted him to get well.
About the time this book came out, US medicine changed its understanding of the liver and said it could heal.  Previously they had said liver disease was incurable because liver cells did not repair themselves.
What an interesting coincidence, eh?
For both your points, Romain, I get a bit off track, but hopefully others will come and fill out your inquiry.

quoting from above for clarification: "Page #122 vol 1-
_____

I don't have my books with me here, I shipped them down south, so you're talking about Bruce's vol 1, right? was confused as didn't remember the name Joshua.
______

"If Joshua were to incarnate again before completely healing he would carry the memories...'
_____
a little gong went off when I read the above. it made a lot of sense. it doesn't solve all the questions we might have regarding the disc and how we come here to heal ourselves or to heal the allusion that we are separate beings and all in disagreement therefore. yet it makes sense to me in that I've done a lot of reading and thinking about reincarnation memories, impressions, and flashes of pictures. especially a story came out of India. briefly, a child was born to a family there, and upon reaching the age of speaking, the child remembered another family. his new family took him to see his former family and to make a long story short he ended up having two families in the current life. I could understand that this was not a story you could brush off as a case of being possessed by a dead person's memories, but could be that he had not spent enough time in between lives to erase the memory which is usually erased; on the other hand, could be it was time for such incidences to be revealed that the human who is being here can have had more than just a single life as a single personality. for if u think about it,  most of us share in common a case of wandering thru life with the question "who am I?" no sooner do we answer the question, then we are changing ourselves into greater definition, to "what am I".

what I wished to say is most lives do not come close to the fulfillment we may seek and so may necessitate further dives according to our wishes and our guides suggestions as to how we may accomplish our desires and intentions for experiencing here. Monroe calls it the gravitational pull of the Earth in which he was sucked in, to repeat a cycle of incarnations over and over until the spec began to instruct him, he had forgotten where he came from, as this was necessary in order to begin his cycle here.
_______
 
" Does that means that since the HS is a combination of the ALL, that pain ...in other words..is felt by all of our Probes and our disk, or is it just the "INDIVIDUAL PROBE.?? because it also says it will carry the residual memories into future physical body also !! "
_____
pain has another end on it...the duality aspect. the disc members are also affected by the joy that a probe has found. even here on this forum a thread makes a ripple effect through the mainstream from a mere word or thought. the residue memories of former lives, are actually not linear lives, but happening now in a parallal dimension to my present understanding, and the probe which is seeming to live a life in the now moment, is actually an insertion point of awareness extending from the disc, gathering for the fullness of the disc those experiences it can. at some point the disc blinks into another dimension after everything that can be gained here is experienced. yet, a single probe cannot comprehend another station of being, other than 3, 4 or 5 dimensional. (my viewpoint at present)
_____

Surely it must refer just to the individual, for how could we carry more than we encounter on our own?
______
lol!! in my case, my guides know how much to let me know so not to be overwhelmed and obliterate the personality and be taken to the funny farm..lol...we don't need to know everything at once in order to enjoy life here and evolve and become.
_____

Heavenhelpus, we would have to be Christ-like, or become bowed and hardened like a beetle!
____
we could also become like putty in the master's hands rather than hardened..ha ha! but I like your analogy and I even like hardened beetles for life is an instinct to survive and we need to be hard before we can be soft.
Being Christ-like I think for me, personally, is to take it one step away from religious thought, into the area of "what are we" rather than "Who are we?" these ideas should be merging into we are a wave of humanity, not as much in disagreement as we think we are. in other words, its an illusion, its a movie. none of this is real or infinite. its all temporary, as indicated by Monroe when the spec was instructing him on what he'd forgotten.
_____

thank you sweetie for inspiring me my own thoughts here. I'm starting to like this place again.
please go smell the flowers for me everybody...they toil nor spin...yet just stand there for our pleasure. love, alysia

I certainly think that another forum would be appropriate. I also think that Bruce would approve most whole heartedly.  
My impressions of his light and disc--- I could relate very easily. My first insight to the "astral" was in the form of a cyclic funnel---grey in color that was pulling me in and down toward and opening. Of course, I was only four or five years old at the time.  I've enjoyed five of Bruce's books. And like Marylin-- I too "loan out" my books and don't get all of them back.  My Bob Monroe series is now down in Florida.  They have been with my friend for the past 5 years now.
Yes, yes, yes to the BMBC!!! (Bruce Moen Book Club.

BMBC! what a nice ring that has to it. Cat ID, I just briefly want to describe I saw a similar personal vision as your funnel, I was in age, maybe 57, so u have a jump on me there.

this was my question of what is higher self. I saw in the in-between state just before waking up a funnel.
the small end of the funnel was C1. the larger end opened up in vision to the vast outreaches of space. thru this funnel filtered down light particles from HS, as much as I could open up to according to my desire. I saw no matter how narrowed my c1 was, that I could not be disconnected from HS..I was just at one end of the light.  this made sense to me as I saw the light as a source of energy, then I realized my flesh was also a mass construct of energy, slowed down to a frozen like condition of light, for the sake of experience gain.

hugs, alysia

Thank you, alysia,
for all the clarity and knowing !
I am extremely upset however by the thought that my HS felt my decades of pain. I've finally accepted that the pains' causes were self-inflicted, and I certainly wouldn't want that to transfer to others, even as a trickle.
Then comes the question too of why they didn't help if they felt it? When a soul gets itself into such a quagmire, they never sent the solace I so needed--and the teacher i begged for turned out to be  a self-serving witch who mixed up decades of my life with her error-prone advice---what was that all about ?! I'm trying to clear it so I will not carry any residue back when I return, as I've always sensed that might be a problem, but if they felt it, why were they so silent?

Woops, off topic in previous post.
Apologies!
New discussion questions for BMBC coming soon!

oh, we won't get that far off topic Betson. no question is, to say, a wrong question.
my opinion, and it is just my perspective, that the people in our path we have the most problems with are the right people in our life to grow and learn to become independent from those conflicts they generate for us. not to exactly grow away from the people themselves, but only the conflicts and expectations we have around these others and includes the situations.

another thing i noticed about your story above and I am empathising here..and have no idea what you've been thru but it seems to have caused you to be here now, I hope in a better place. the story is brought to mind of one who suffers. foot steps in the sand is the story. the subject is asking god where was god during this trial; at the end the person looks behind and sees gods footsteps in the sand.

for guides, angels, the best teachers - the main rule of thumb from what I've been taught is to set the student free from the teacher; and from what I've read from your story above, the higher self of your mentor may have enacted a fall from grace for your benefit to have you search in another direction. just thinking out loud here of the kinds of illusions we labor under, and believe me I've had many allusions.  deception seems to catapult us into greater areas of discovery but it always entails suffering; but funny I've noticed about the suffering part, even that starts to look not like suffering when the other areas of thought start opening up. the pain starts to look like the other end of itself, like it was all worth it.
well, for what its worth, my higher self does not interfere in my decisions here so I can get a feeling I'm doing it all, and getting stronger on my own. but the best things happen when you ask for help, then it always arrives, but u have to be persistent as the squeaky wheel gets the grease! ha ha!
didn't mean to ramble. I just sense your pain and the pain is always there, but you don't have to let it overwhelm you and cloud out your good judgment.

http://images.bravenet.com/common/images/smilies/flamed.gif

Hey Chuckles! (Is it alright if I "still" call you that!?) ;)

I like what you wrote here:

"In my opinion, and it is just my perspective, that the people in our path we have the most problems with are the right people in our life to grow and learn to become independent from those conflicts they generate for us. not to exactly grow away from the people themselves, but only the conflicts and expectations we have around these others and includes the situations."

I have used this technique that you explain throughout my life's journeys! I try to "learn" from everyone that I run into throughout my life... Sometimes I will see things that people do and how it affects others/themselves and I try to learn from them so that I don't make those same mistakes within my own life; half of the time I end up using their example, doing the opposite; then they end up seeing the outcome of the opposite of what they did "initially", and in turn they themselves learn from their own mistakes! Funny that way... It's almost like a *karma trifecta* of sorts. Very appropriate for us all I believe.

Much thanks for your "always" inspiring thoughts.

PUL,
Cosmic_Ambitions

Also Chuckles, with regards to what you wrote about the funnel that you saw... A few weeks ago I lay down, closed my eyes, and relaxed into my meditation. I very briefly saw what I believe to be "close" to what you saw... I saw this image open up in the 3-D blackness. It looked like purple sparks of swirling light forming a tunnel of sorts that became smaller as it stretched out into the blackness around it. I believe that there were neon blue streaks in there somewhere too. It was very brief at the time, but it was very surreal. I had the same feeling when I was stressed out one day lying in my bed with eyes closed. I remember seeing the moon before me with a surreal myst/fog encircling it... Also, there were 2 balls of bright white light just behind and above the moon... I even remember seeing all of the crater marks on the moon. The "feelings" I got during both experiences were quite similar with respect to the "surrealness/peacefulness" of it all. -- (Unmistakable...)

PUL,
Cosmic_Ambitions

I think I'd like u to call me Buddha ;D  Buddha smiles I hear..maybe because he doesn't believe in allusion? but u can call me giggles or chuckles. i don't care one way or the other..just keep sharing your visions..purple and neon blue, thats nice..my shaft or funnel was golden and it got bigger as it went out from my mind..it was similar to amblical cord, like the astral body has been reported to have a lifeline to the physical.

you can sometimes see this cord when obe, but I never have..just believe its there. so nice to view color of intensity for those of you that do, its a treat. not saying what I saw was this cord to the astral body, as this was not looking the same as I imagine that flexible cord to look like, which stretches a great deal so I hear.
once upon a time I was in a church of the 7 rays. the purple is a tranmutation color. I would hazard a guess to tranmute is to raise the vibration from negative to positive perhaps. although in my vivid imagination I see a wizard with sparks coming from the fingers using this ray. ;D I imagine color study is a whole new field to look into as regarding the different vibes of each color, and the way we speak here of going into the bright light.
that reminds me of Monroe who came upon a being out there and the light was so bright, he had to make an adjustment to it, or this being made an adjustment to him or both.
would any of the lights out there like to discuss something in Bruce's books? I don't have my books here to help me and I'm so bad about staying on topic of this thread...I don't see we've gotten off topic, I generally see what I want to see though! heres a lizard friend of mine. an enlightened lizard..

http://library.ust.hk/clip-art/mozilla/lamp.gif

Oh and alysia,
Joshua was actually a part of Bruce.  It was his first self-retrieval and cured him of liver trouble.
Thank you and CA too for the comments on my digressions.  Much appreciated.
bets

Don't worry Betson, there're will always be someone to get you/us back on track, like me..ouch.LOL....:)
Should have another cup of coffee..humm

Let's talk about butterfly, since Alycia remind me of one, anyone of you ever had the feeling like Bruce talk in his first book about the Butterfly effect P68.
Since some don't have the book anymore..actually it start on page 67, bottom of the page.."Quote"..Since his meeting with I/There during the tape wednesday night  he had notice that if he close dhis eyes and relaxed he could feel a gentle but noticeable pulsating flutter between his eyes about one and half inches deep insidde his skull, it felt soft and gentle like a small butterfly inside his head flapping his/her wings...!!
Anyone had that feeling, and no i'm not taking chakras opening here, what i'm asking is anyone ever used this technic to send/recived messages, and how did it work for you?
Myself i've learn NVC form the institute or rote what RAM called, but that sensation of fluttering is very active and few time i used as a jump start (priming the pump) for NVC.. anyone else used it.
BMCB..like it...:)

Chow for now, Romain

oh thanks for the reminder Betson about Joshua. see, I read all four books twice over, and I still didn't remembr that story! I guess we all remember different things in our reading, so good to remind each other.

Romain, it doesn't feel like a butterfly to me, but I know you are feeling it the way you do personally. I feel a movement there from time to time, especially when I projected myself as an orb, but it was more like a little click and a little breeze of energy being expelled from that area..and this energy contained me, but not the form of me, as my image of myself was there, but soon became just an orb, which the first time to be an orb is like, gee, I need my hands to pick stuff up with, yada, yada, wait I'm just a ball...omygod..help me! lol. its ok, you get used to being an orb. but yea, the energy of a butterfly, I love it!  anybody felt what Romain is talking about specifically?

hugs, alysia
butterfly? Romain, some think I'm just a flying pig

http://images.bravenet.com/common/images/smilies/chick.gif

Hey Romain & "Buddha"! ;)

I have in fact felt this "butterfly effect" while meditating... I thought that it was just me. I also believe that I may have "mistook" this phenomenon for chakra activity. Now maybe... I don't really know though, but what it kind of felt like to me was quite similar to when my astral counterpart starts loosening from my body. It feels like a very soft bed sheet flowing through my body. This feeling of a "bed sheet" flowing throughout my body may be related to this "butterfly effect" somehow, because it was felt in the head region as well. Quite similar to the butterfly description that Bruce gave, in terms of the "feel" of it. Kind of hard to put into words.

PUL,
Cosmic_Ambitions

P.S. Hey Buddha! I liked your picture of the "enlightened" lizard! It reminded me of a picture that I once drew of a wisely aged "wizard-like" cartoon goldfish that I dubbed "Merlin"... He looked to be very "wise" for a goldfish. He looked to be an ascended master of sorts! ;D Who says fish can't fly! ;)

P.S. (to the 2nd power)... I see that you mentioned that the color purple represents a raise in vibration from negative to positive. I was wondering if you knew what some of the other colors represent. Like neon blue. I've always been curious about the spiritual meaning of colors. Also, colors have always baffled me... For example, the colors that we see in our physical reality -- like plants, the sky, etc. are not actually colors coming from that particular object  itself, but rather the colors are just colors that result from the spectrum of colors (red, orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo, violet) that are filtered/refracted out of the spectrum that is contained in light... So, the color that you see is basically the color that does not get absorbed by that particular object via the light that reflects off of it. I use to always think that "color" was an attribute of an object itself... but, it's actually just God/Light smiling down/expressing himself/herself/itself on the blank slate of an endlessly evolving creation.

lol...CA what are u trying to do to my head? :-*

thats funny about the color of an object being actually the one color the object won't accept ???
reminds me of duality world.

someone smarter can correct me please:

1) gold = wisdom
2) yellow = intellect
3) blue = devotion
4) red = passion
5) pink = love
6) green = healing
7) white = ? maybe purity
8. purple = transmutation

I have green toes. lime green. just in case anyone is interested. thats my aura.
now I know for sure I'm off topic! hugs, alysia

Sorry "Chuckles"... I'll keep with the repitition I had started so as to unmess the messiness I had messied. LOL! ("Chuckles" it is!) ;D......... unless of course you prefer "Buddha". (hehe!) ;)

Thanks for that list you gave of colors' meanings. I appreciate it. Again, your kindness precedes you... Dare I expect less... ;)

PUL,
Cosmic_Ambitions

P.S. I'm not sure what color the aura of my toes are, or the rest of my body for that matter... I've been interested to look into that further. However, I do hope that my toes are "green", because I sure could use some "healing" in my feet today after how much I had to walk around on them at work! (I guess I'll just have to do it the old fashioned way for now... warm bath, warm fire, warm bed; meditate, and repeat as neccessary!) Maybe open up a healing chakra flow of sorts. :)
(Sorry for "extending" any off topicness, but threads sometimes evolve into mirror images of the creative power that inspires thought extensions.) :-X

I had to laugh about the toes...every now and again I'll be laying in my bathtub and look down at my toes and they'll be surrounded by this pale lavender aura.  Why my toes, for pity's sake?  Unless I'm really looking, and in just the right mood, I can never see it anywhere else, but my toes??

The final section of Book I expands the 'cast' of Bruce Moen's encounters. Previously he was busy learning his way around the focus levels and doing some self-retrievals, so not many C1 people outside RMI were involved.
So now we meet many in his C1 family--daughter Shaela, niece Barbara among others, and his favorite teacher Rebecca.  ----So at what point do we tell our C1 relatives of our involvement in the afterlife, and what responses might we expect?
Beyond our contacts on these web forums, is it possible to find a mentor, like Rebecca was for Bruce?

At the back of the book several other authors' works are mentionned. Have you read anything by these authors and what did you gain from them?
George G. Ritchie
Ken Eagle Feather
ron Russell (editor)
Gari Carter
Joe McMoneagle
Peter Novak

'Voyages into the Unknown' certainly contained alot of material that we didn't get around to discussing. Is there anything anyone wants to bring up about this Bk 1 before we move on?

Hi all, I'm going to try to catch up here, most current stuff first...

I know of that effect in the forehead, but I have felt it like a click as Alysia said.  That is the point where I feel myself go out of body from the physical.

About talking to our loved ones about our afterlife involvement...I don't think there's ever a good time!  The way I operate is to get the "bad" stuff over with, kind of like eating your vegetables when you are a kid...just hurry up and get it done!  For me, no one I know, friends or family, can really understand anything I talk about when it comes to this stuff.  I told my mom for the first time yesterday that I was writing my book, what it was about, etc.  She was happy and proud of me but didn't understand much of it.  She said she can't wait to read it and that dad would read it too, just because I'm his daughter but not because he believes in that kind of stuff.  Oh well I tried.  At least I finally told her.   :)


Yes, I do believe it is possible to find a mentor we need.  I believe we are always setting ourselves up for the next phase of whatever it is we will experience.  If your thinking is that you need something or someone, I believe it/they will be brought into your life when the timing is right.

I haven't read those authors mentioned.  

I will get my book out and look through and see if there is something else not mentioned here that I'd like to talk about.  

Bets, are you a teacher?

George G. Ritchie - have read his book, very interesting

Ken Eagle Feather - have read his 3 books, very intersting
 
Ron Russell (editor) - I met Ron Russell and his wife the week after I took Gateway Voyage. Very wonderful people. Since I had taken GV, they said 'you're one of us now.' We emailed back and forth for a couple years

Gari Carter - read her book, absolutely amazing how she had this horrible accident and went through her surgeries without any anesthetic, using the Surgical Support hemi-sync series, hers was one of the first books I bought and read after reading Bruce's first 3 books.

Joe McMoneagle - I know Joe. He's quite a character. Was with him at several get together's where I lived and of course he was at every program I took signing his books for those who bought them. I already had all his books and never thought to bring them with me.   :'(

Peter Novak - have not read any of his books but know he's a valued member of TMI and also now teaches a new program at TMI called Exploration Essence. I understand that those who have taken it love him and the program. If I had the money, it is one program I would definitely take. They explore our core essence and I understand that it's beyond words.

I'd like to add that I met Rebecca while living on The New Land. Didn't know at the time she was Rebecca as that's not her real name. When I was told, I was amazed that I had met this wonderful woman. I understand that she goes to sleep at night and immediately wakes up in another reality, gets up, puts on clothes for that reality and goes about her day, then back to sleep at night to wake up the next morning as Rebecca.

Bruce was very fortunate to have had her as a mentor and taught her so much. I don't know how hard it would be for any of us to find a mentor like that.

As far as discussing more about book 1, I probably would if I still had it. And when I do replace books 1 through 3, I probably will bring up more. Perhaps more people who have read his books will be interested in the Bruce Moen Book Club. ;-)

With Love, Mairlyn

Cricket---
the toes and feet are grounded. They are your body's base. The lavender/purple color is the spiritual chakra color.  So your toes keep you grounded  during your spiritual "relaxation" time.  If you gather spiritual color from below, your toes would be the first to receive the energy.  It's all very natural.  Enjoy!!!-cat

So Mairlyn,

Do you know if Rebecca has any books out there about her experiences, especially of what you said about her waking up in another reality?

No I sure don't but I can try to find out. I can't remember her last name but I think I can find that out too. I'll let you know if there's anything.

Love, Mairlyn

What most interested me in "Voyage to Curiosity's Father" was the discussion of partnered exploration.  Sadly, I was more struck by the differences than the similarities, especially in view of the shared mindset and expectations.   Nor has the Partnered Exploration section of this site yielded the expected routine verfications.   I eagerly await more impressive verifications through this type of research.  

There is dream research to support the view that intent focus can influence other people's dreams.   The potential significance of this is unknown but fascinating.

Don

Uh, we're discussing Bruce's first book in this thread.

Don Said: There is dream research to support the view that intent focus can influence other people's dreams.   The potential significance of this is unknown but fascinating.
 _____

Hi Don. going to do a take on your thought as its revelevant that you are searching for verification but only find contradictions mostly. yet when you do find info out there which fascinates...I'd say go with it to see where it takes you.
now, I hope you don't continue to think this BMBC is a cult...lol....as you use the word fascination, that is what happened to me when I read Curiosity vision; I hadn't even read Bruce's books at that point.

my real fascination is dreaming and obeing. I have verification now that I've met Bruce out there, and I'm satisfied with it, but I don't hope to convince anyone, least of all our favorite skepic here. so I'll just tell the story for what its worth, and I'm not trying to promote my book, nor even myself, because if u want to know the honest truth, the writing process was simply a transformation tool so I could deal with all the belief systems I had which conflicted. whew. if it makes anything more clear to another, I'm fine with that, but if not...I wrote it for me and even here I write because you guys are like family to me and we're born to communicate.

rattle rattle rattle....this just one time I met with Bruce.  I was just starting the book. I was thinking; my high school teacher said I was a good writer. yea, but I had nothing to say. just words. I was about midway in the book with content and got stumped. how do you put something together that flows seamlessly? started getting down on myself. wondered who to ask for help. one night I found myself sailing out there in my astral body. not all my consciousness was there; didn't know where I was going until I got there. just knew I had to find Bruce's house. when you're out there, u just think about somebody and you can be there. theres not even a stopsign..lol..I love it! so I arrive and shown to guest quarters to await my turn to see him. It seemed like I was expected. and also the guest room was frequently occupied as you might expect of authors. in the guest room is a fellow from time to time posts here. I recognize him. I won't mention his name to protect him from my misconceptions should I have some I'm not aware of. the fellow explains to me that he too is waiting to see Bruce about something. he asks me to talk to Bruce about his problem. I decline as I have an urgent matter, and I sense I should not be interfering with whatever their relationship is, it is between them and I am not to meddle. I explain that I have a mission and have to be one pointed but that I will speak to him as soon I can to explain my own viewpoint, but not Bruces viewpoint on their relationship.
ok, its my turn and Bruce is the kitchen writing his 5th book at the time and he's multi tasking...hands and feet flying everywhere, tables with books on them. making his connections, very good at being this communicator person which I admire and I know he's written books and published them...I'm over here writing and it's going to take me years....I stay in the hallway whining it seems..I can hear my voice and on the otherside, you know you are there, but the sound is like being underwater understandably..as its not physical sound vibration..my voice sounds like this: whaaa.....book....oooooouuuuuu.....help!.......aaaaaaa! lol. I'm trying to describe what its like to go obe by the sounds...sorry, it's impossible! it seems like we all have a tone...and I was utilizing this tone to communicate. so Bruce continues multi tasking and thows me a rote without even stopping what he's doing! ha ha! I knew he was talking and I could hear tone from him, but I'm still underwater here remember.
I get the rote which for all intents you can say it is telepathy. I remember one word though.."church."
he reminded me of what was in my subconscious I was to write about. I had been kicked out of two churches for talking about spirits; this back in my youth. I had not thought about these experiences, that they would have any value to write about them. my jaw fell to the ground as I saw the implications of the rote. but more than this I wake up in C1 and wonder how did Bruce know about my past? and that is when I realize we all go out of our bodies at night but we are not awake out there..we float dreamy like..when we start consciously wishing to remember..we start making contact with friends or relatives, or groups we belong to, of like minded searchers.
but that doesn't answer how Bruce knew about my past. I conjecture I must have told him at some point in time. after all, I've had 5 years to tell him about me. I call it higher self must be the one that gets around; C1 is limited consciousness. it only deals mostly with surviving in a physical body in C1, go to work, pay the rent, have your babies...etc....higher self is your intentions for coming to earth beyond just the survival part. higher self is more unlimited perspective, a more total you. I'm sure I have bent Bruce's ear on more than one occassion! lol!

so I woke up and started writing one of my favorite chapters enthusiastically like my fingers were on fire. mentally sending gratitude to Bruce for the reminder.

the element of the other guest who posts here was like a verification also. as the next day I get a private post from him detailing some problems he has with Bruce, and just like in the obe, he wants me to work his problem out..true to my feelings, I decline because of the reasons already stated. I'm a wonderful meddler and my guides will not allow me to meddle..lol...been there, done that.

so thats my story..will mean nothing to anyone here, because its too personal..but I enjoyed telling it, and there's two of us here, no three, with you Don, that are fascinated with dreams and obes and we plan on writing about it in the future. its more of an obsession with me to explore the language out there and come back to C1 and ponder on it, on there being two realities...like Rebbeca who lives two lives...how extraordinary! how could you handle living two lives at the same time? probably by taking it one day at a time?  yup. hug, alysia

I reviewed pages 38 to 43 of Bruce's Voyages into the Unkown.  I have yet to see my silver cord or my many personality disc. I understood what Bruce was seeing. Rampa put it this way: there is a puppet master and we are the marionette puppets at the end of many strings. For each finger of the puppeteer is one marionette (10 puppets).  I am the 10 puppets and I have many strings that help me funciton. But, because I am joined by the left and fingers and the right hand fingers, I am one. ---The fingers of the puppeteer are my silver cords. The strings would be Bruce's disc.
To put this in perspective: I am a daughter, mother, wife, sister, clerk, craftsman, cook, nurse, teacher, female, carpenter, seamstrist, etc. However, I am only one person with many personalities.  This is what Bruce is describing (in my translation)of the many personalities (happy, sad, etc.) of the disc.  He is one, but many.
When I met my many "selves" I found myself climbing up a human pyramid with a Guide. I went very high with the guide, climbing over the faces of the human bodies. I remember stopping and reaching out to a light.
If I can find the dream in my journal, I will submit it. I think the many faces were my many faces from  over my lifetimes. Instead of disc I had human faces in a pyramid.
L&L Carol Ann

sounds like the same thing as the disc to me Cat! I call all these selves my guides whom feed me info when I need it. I have a nun, a preacher, a 50's smart a--, chinese healer, indian midwife, etc etc they all have a say in my life. the newest one is only 19 in emotional maturity, but she partakes of the others knowledge. shes the present consciousness here now. she's starting to catch up with the others. seems weird on some days, other days, it's hmmm. have I ascended yet?

thanks for sharing that vision; nice to know theres other people out there having the same conceptions and beliefs, or at least exploring these ideas. I've never looked for the cord. not really interested in it..just assume its there.
the puppet and puppeteer idea works ok for me, but once upon a time it would have upset me..it doesn't upset me now, because I know I'm connected to all of the selves as in a oneness and all the strings are being pulled in the direction I prefer and I know I have a choice which direction to look in.

hugs, alysia

Vicky asked:

Quote:

Do you know if Rebecca has any books out there about her experiences, especially of what you said about her waking up in another reality?

Hi Vicky,

I wrote to Frank DeMarco who would know (he's associated with Hampton Roads) and he said no, she hasn't written any books.

It's a shame really as I'm sure she would have a lot to offer readers.

Love, Mairlyn

Oh man, I was afraid to hear that.  That is such a shame.  I wonder why.   :(

Where are we in the book..now..i'm lost or did  i miss somthing.. :o :o :o

R.

I'm not sure where we are exactly--I'm not the one leading this pack, ha ha!  We do tend to get a wee bit side tracked but that's ok.  It's all good stuff.  

Bets, where are we again?

:)

Thanks Romain and Vicky.

Yep, I think that about ends our first look into the first Bruce Moen book.  The BMBC will continue with a new thread based (loosely?   :)  ) upon Book 5---
               Afterlife Knowledge Guidebook.
We are skipping to that book for now since more people seem to have read it, and Bk 2 is so difficult to get at this time.
The basic format will remain about the same, just with more people entering into this with discussion questions or comments, I hope.
Congrats to all who stuck it out thru these first meetings.  Sorry we didn't serve better refreshments!
:)

well I was quite invigorated! will put a double shot in my latte next time! ;D

When referring to book 5, are we now talking about the Afterlife Knowledge book?  I think that is correct. By the way, not all of my CD's correspond with the lessons in the book.  I had to laugh at one, because I thought the CD was mislabled, and as it happened, my CD player skipped and went to the next lesson on the CD.  I was very lost when I closed my eyes and expected to do a first retrieval but found my self walking in the forest!! It was ment to be, as that was how I contacted Donna who had just passed away (I had no conscious knowledge of her passing).  Spirit works in strange and mysterious ways.  I love this BMBC!!

that was marvelous to hear about Donna, Cat. this stuff works! I contacted my grandmother passed over and she told me about a brooch my mother was supposed to give me! lol! when I asked mother about the brooch, she said she lost it, but I verified something at that moment. it all seemed like imagination too. and the plot thickens slowly.....

love, alysia

I have found the new thread for The Afterlife Knowledge book review.  I have already contributed my two cents worth!!! L&L--cat

ha ha! Cat! yes I think you did! here we go... ;D