I had a question about personalities...

If we, (the physically incarnate), are basically probes of curiosity sent out via "The Source", and are all EXACTLY the same at the point of launch from "The Source"... then, at what point do we gain an individual identity/personality separate from the other probes (other people)?

In other words... Is there, for instance, an infinite amount of personality traits to choose from at the very beginning of our launch, and each of us just chose a separate set of traits from the beginning, thereby creating the start of our "individualism" separate from the other probes and The Source? And if this is the case, then could we all hypothetically be the exact same person if we started out with the exact same traits? Also, if all of these probes (ourselves) experience all of these traits over a given period of time... will we all mold back into The Source that created us, and these traits, in the end, thereby being one, and the same, as The Source....... (AGAIN)!? :-X

heres a little ditty I found helpful for myself considering your questions;

http://www.skyhero.com/transpersonal-realm.htm

these kind of questions are quite deep, not generally answered on a forum, but over years of meditation, my opinion and thanks for being so deep! nice to have people like you ask these things, not that I have all the answers. just sharing what worked for me.

You can never 'return' to the Source/God, if you've never left it in the first place. There can be no end, if there was never any true beginning (eg. to separation).

Some fear returning to the Source/Oneness and losing their individuality.

Some fear never returning to the Source/Oneness, and never experiencing universality.

Both are amusing fears born out of nothing but illusion. When you come to realize You are the Source/Oneness/God experiencing both individuality and universality, simultaneously, across an infinity of beings, forms, existences and realities, you will remember why you created the Comos in the first place.

For each and every Being, are a simultaneous (multi-tasking) free-will adventure into form, enjoyed by the One/Source/God, (from whose perspective in totality, existence is) without beginning and without end.

http://infinity.usanethosting.com/ConversationsWithGod_NealeDonaldWalsch.gif

That was a good link laffingrain. Thank you for that.

It seems that there are so many levels of thought to every question. It's extremely hard to write into words  
what sometimes can only be expressed with feelings and intuition. I suppose that's when meditation comes in... It leaves me wondering how much we can "truly" understand about the nature of the reality we find ourselves in while we inhabit these human bodies and minds. We are limited to our five senses.... occasionally more if we're spiritually honed in. When we officially pass on to the afterlife, say we gain a host of new and improved senses at an exponential rate... senses that we could have never imagined existed... -- will those new senses totally erase the logic that we currently hold with our "5" physical body senses (sometimes more)? It leaves me wondering.

In addition, I was wondering how the first initial creation came into existence and how it was imagined from the absoluteness of nothing... But, the totality of everything... If someone came up to me right now and said, "Can you please come up with a brand new color... one that has never existed before. -- (Don't mix colors to create colors, but come up with a BRAND NEW COLOR.) -- I personally would be dumbfounded.... THAT.... in essence, is exactly what God did. (But, on a MUCH grander scale.)

---------------

Thanks Kyo for your extrapolation. It left me thinking:

If there is no beginning and no end... how could we be in existence right now in the physical plane if there was an infinity behind us? We could have never gotten to today if the past went on to infinity... I can see God existing forever in an infinite state,  but the things created from God, which are applied to the physical world, must have BEGAN at a specified point, from which infinity can expand forward. But, if infinity stretches off into the past as well, the days would have never gotten to today. That of course applies to our physical reality. (Which we currently find ourselves in.)

Also, how/why did The Source decide which probe would hold which personality traits? Or is it merely random, and inconsequential?

Thanks again,

Cosmic_Ambitions

Quote:

Thanks Kyo for your extrapolation. It left me thinking: If there is no beginning and no end... how could we be in existence right now in the physical plane if there was an infinity behind us? We could have never gotten to today if the past went on to infinity... I can see God existing forever in an infinite state,  but the things created from God, which are applied to the physical world, must have BEGAN at a specified point, from which infinity can expand forward. But, if infinity stretches off into the past as well, the days would have never gotten to today. That of course applies to our physical reality. (Which we currently find ourselves in.) Also, how/why did The Source decide which probe would hold which personality traits? Or is it merely random, and inconsequential? Thanks again, Cosmic_Ambitions

The unsolvable paradox or conundrum only exists when you imagine separation between 'God/Source/Oneness' and 'Individual/Personality/Creation'. You'll have to step out of the box, else the box itself can only be an incomplete riddle.

From the way you utilize the terms "we", "our physical selves" and "God" or "Source", there is implied an inherent separation. From this (illusionary) separation, yes sure you can focus on a beginning, or many beginnings, for the different soul races, worlds, universes even. But are any of these essentially meaningful on their own?

From a higher unified perspective, one could say, approaching 'God's' perspective, (there is no 'absolute' ultimate, for God is the collective, simultaneous, totality of all evolution and all beings), then the individual beginnings, endings, transmutations, creations, etc, all do not matter. Perhaps you might invite yourself to explore this shift in approach.

Consequently (or inconsequently), if the True You (Source/Oneness/God) are infinitely 'greater' (not as in 'more worthy', but as in 'true nature') than you (the individual human personality), would specific 'beginnings' therefore be of any meaningful significance?

As to your specific concern with regards to personality, traits, creation and destiny; it is exactly as specified in the "Neale Donald Walsh" quote. That is to say...


Quote:

Also, how/why did The Source decide which probe would hold which personality traits? Or is it merely random, and inconsequential?

You (each & every being) *are* the Source. To imply otherwise (even for discussion sake) is a slippery slope into meaninglessness. And you did not pre-decide or pre-determine your personality traits from the point of your Creation (ie. as an individual being), certainly not as a domineering Creator God/Source to a will-less creation plaything (though Creation/Existence is indeed a playful exploration of your own Self).

So the 'choice of traits' as you put it, is neither "random", nor "inconsequential". From the perspective of the Totality, or God, it is simple -

You have potential for infinite choices, traits, personalities, natures, ideas, stories, relationships (with other selves of Yourself, of course), and so You willed Yourself into Infinity, to explore all of these choices, with *each* of Your little selves (ie. beings of Creation) having free will to select to explore or even change (at all times) any or all aspects of their personality and destiny, subject, of course to the 12 Universal Laws including Karma (which does in a powerful way, compound or complexify the issue of free will) across an infinitum of worlds, particulary dense physical worlds, to coexist meaningfully, didactically and pedagogically with Your other little selves, as part of your evolution (with a fundamental rule of the game as free will).

From the perspective of your individual being or self, it is also equally simple -

You are the Creator/Source existing/exploring/personified as the little you, the individual you, the individual human being. Therefore, it is still You, who chooses your personality traits, and you are still choosing them at every moment. Choices, experiences and thosenes (thoughts, sentiments, energies) made early during your 'individual creation' will of course powerfully affect the karmic course of your existences throughout all planes you manifest or incarnate in, BUT IT IS STILL YOU.

That is to say, only the separative and myopic viewpoint of misconception, will throw responsibility to "that was a mistake committed by my past life, why should I have to suffer for it?" idea. Because You are still You, and You will always be You. Whether at the beginning of your 'creation', or right now, or in the future, it is still You. You are the Now.

Your Free Will and Choice at this very moment, is every bit as powerful as your choices made early on in your 'creation'. Nay, it's not even correct to say "as powerful as", because that implies distinction. To be accurate, they are both (choices both past and present) are all equally You, and in You, in the Now, and in Love, You are the Bridge across all Time.

This is indeed an important hint as to the TransTemporal nature of the Soul, as well as understanding the true nature of how Free Will determines Destiny, or to be precise, *IS* Destiny.

Thank you as always dear Kyo. Your words always make my soul sing. ;-)

Love, Mairlyn ;-)

Thank you, Dear Mairlyn.

:)
Love, Kyo

Wow Kyo,
That's gotta be the best explanation I've heard to date. You truly have an amazing way of explaining things, that I don't think I've experienced before.

Thanks for taking the time to answer so impeccably,

Cosmic_Ambitions  :)

Thanks and most welcome, Cosmic_Ambitions.

Kyo :)

Hi Cosmic_Ambitions,

I once asked in meditation who I was before my first incarnation, and I got infos about a totally nonhuman being which was somehow in this universe, but with other means of perception. It firstly came from somewhere outside, of something which is "around" our universe.
When this being incarnated and came back, it had changed very much, after each incarnation.
On another take on the "who was I / who am I" issue I was shown that this alien being joined a group, which was a melting, but still in this melting it's individuality remained, and this new entire thing was very similar to that which RAM and Bruce are telling of (I/There, Disc).
Then I focused on reincarnation; the "probes" where formed of the entire being, a mixture of traits; these probes even could breakup again to aspects, or double and go different ways, but they will still be part of the entire being; and so they stay connected, as the entire being is connected to that which it is part of in another, bigger level or bubble.
There is the traditional Karma, but also never the same person incarnating, for there is a steady input to the entire and it mixes new every incarnation which appears then as person.

These infos are always accompanied in my case with the sense of "this is not as it truely is, but presented to you in a way that it comes closest to the truth due to your current ability of understanding".

I'd like you take my impressions not as different or opposed to Kyo's posts. It is just a question of the viewpoint, or the how one asks. Indeed, I believe finally there is no true separation. It's the game we are involved to view hierarchies of viewpoints.

Spooky

Thanks spooky2,

I thoroughly enjoyed your post. I believe I read something in Bruce's book "Curiosity's Father" about the varying levels/bubbles that exist throughout reality, which are connected to one another via "filaments" of awareness, which bind all back to The Source. (e.g. The Source to The Disc, The Disc to possibly a smaller Disc, that Disc to more Discs, and finally to us (probes).... of course the Discs are probes too. Also, all of creation is bound by a glue, we've known to call "Love". Without that "glue", as Bruce has reported, creation wouldn't be at all as coherent and organized as we find it is.

I love how you wrote:

"These infos are always accompanied in my case with the sense of "this is not as it truely is, but presented to you in a way that it comes closest to the truth due to your current ability of understanding"."

It's kind of like the situation where you have two people walking along on the same path, with the same scenery and elements to be exposed to. However, upon asking these individuals what they experienced along the way, both will give critically different accounts of their adventures. Even though both were on the same path, side by side...

Another thing I like to consider about this reality that I find myself in is the idea that I wouldn't know to appreciate the things that I do if I hadn't made the choice to come here. For instance, I am an avid "beach goer", and have a hard time living away from water. If I hadn't have come to this planet, and I was shown a beach on the "other side", I wouldn't be able to appreciate it with the same tenacity, nor would I know what to appreciate about it had I not chosen to come here and see it/feel it through the eyes of a human being. This kind of applies to the idea about good and evil... If "evil" didn't exist, would you know exactly what "good" was? Or how good "good" was? -- conundrums abound. ;)

PUL,
Cosmic_Ambitions

Hi again Cosmic_Ambitions,
>>>all of creation is bound by a glue, we've known to call "Love". <<< Yes, when I went deeper in RAM's and Bruce's writings, I found "love" could be understood as caring interest in people and things, which is expanding yourself, and curiosity is a factor in that, sometimes triggered through the wish of "going home", meaning to merge with the greater again, and this website is about how one can be here, as human, and as well there, with the greater perspective I think.
This is good, your walking the path example, and both persons are true, despite they tell different things!
What you said in the last part, it's about experiencing something new, which is a bit mystic in itself when we ask how we even can experience something new? Once we get known about something, we can't step back, it has happend...and we will never become what we were before. So must we take super-care about what we do next? Hmm, will not work, something will happen anyway, the good or the bad and we will be once again more experienced :-) .

Spooky

Quote:

These infos are always accompanied in my case with the sense of "this is not as it truely is, but presented to you in a way that it comes closest to the truth due to your current ability of understanding".

This nicely describes all perspectives and info, from all sources or persons regardless of evolutionary level, including the guides & helpers, their guides & helpers, and so on unto infinity.

A corollary of this, is that the wise have compassion and understanding for the actions of others, for each person at each point of time, is indeed doing the best job of being him/herself that he/she knows how, making the best choices as he/she understands at that point of time. This is why there is no right or wrong, only degrees of cosmoethicality. If he/she/you could have known better, wouldn't you think he/she/you would have chosen better? Therefore do not regret or condemn your past actions (for there is nothing to regret or condemn, only to understand, accept and be compassionate for), but seek *now* to do what to the best of your perspective and understanding, must be done for the good of all the cosmos - the CosmoEthics.



Quote:

Then I focused on reincarnation; the "probes" where formed of the entire being, a mixture of traits; these probes even could breakup again to aspects, or double and go different ways, but they will still be part of the entire being; and so they stay connected, as the entire being is connected to that which it is part of in another, bigger level or bubble. There is the traditional Karma, but also never the same person incarnating, for there is a steady input to the entire and it mixes new every incarnation which appears then as person.

Certainly this does occur; it is a matter of

1) level at which is spoken about - individual soul, oversoul, greater oversoul, entire planetary race, entire galatic race, entire universe, entire cosmos, etc, ad infinitum unto God (defined as Totality of All That Is).  

2) chosen modality of functioning at any given level. Some souls, group souls, oversouls, particularly certain extraterrestrial or galactic races or group beings, choose various versions of this described modailty of existence and evolution. While others, prefer a more individualistic modality of existence and evolution.

Again as always, it is Free Will, at all levels (ie. free will of the individual souls, the collective oversoul, etc; there is never any true conflict of will between these, they are by definition parts/aspects/levels of each other), collectively determine this.


Finally, to facilitate the understanding (and avoid fear-based misconception) of the above described process for the readers, we will use a simple analogy.

Also, be reminded that the above described process, can function at any and all levels, including the human soul, which can (by choice, depending on nature, evolutionary status and free will) incarnate itself simultaneously into two or more physical bodies at the same time, whether on the same planet or otherwise. But usually that goes into the level of the Oversoul (which is naturally a relative term, relative to from-whom-is-viewing, because the Oversoul has it's own Oversoul ad infinitum, unto the entire Cosmos/God/Oneness), that incarnates itself into many individuals (each a functioning individual soul by itself) across many nations, races and worlds simultaneously.

Now then, the analogy. You turn on your PC and logon to the internet. You multitask, by running several chat programs simultaneously (afterall, you're a busy, busy oversoul, so you've lots of people to interact and communicate with, projects to participate in, existences to explore).

You begin opening many windows at once, chatting with entire groups on each chat screen, you chat on MSN messanger, and on IRC chat, and on ICQ chat, and on Yahoo messanger, and on AOL messanger.

(Meanwhile, you're also participating on forum discussions on the Afterlife Knowledge form, on the Near Death forum, on the Astral Pulse forum, and also surfing various websites at the same time. Perhaps also doing a spreadsheet or typing a word document too. And meantime, also watching TV, chatting on the phone, watching your dog, baking pizza in the oven, waiting for an important Fed Ex package, etc.)

So each of your chat persona has a different name, and by choice (eg. because of the different chat or forum group or work you're participating in), each chat persona also naturally has different personality traits, different genders even.

After a couple of hours, you begin calling it a day for each of the chat windows. Finally switching off the PC. The next time you relog onto the internet, and log on to the various chat systems and forums, you resume your personas, but each time, you've changed, evolved somewhat. In fact, your multiple onscreen personas (since you, the person behind the PC, the Oversoul, you're actually the sum total, nay, MORE than the sum total of all of them online limited personalities), you get to mix personality traits, evolve each persona, get to apply or communicate knowledge (gained from another persona, eg ICQ) through this persona (eg. MSN), etc.

Afterall, it's all You. Yet each persona (which is You, of course) has never truly lost any of its essence, or its traits, or even the identities it/they/You enjoy. Because its all You. And there is only Oneness, or Love, between all the personas, between all the selves of YourSelf.

And so it is with ALL beings in the universe, in all the universes, in the entire Cosmos.

So who are You, really? The Sum Total of All Beings, All Worlds, All Realities. You Are Whom We Call Love, ie. Oneness of All.

You Are God.


PS.

Regarding the unification of entire planetary/galatic soul groups/races, Hilarion has predicted the eventual unification (not re-unification, because in essence, none have left Oneness; in form, all races are ever evolving, ever new) of the entire human and angelic races, in the distant future, much after the entirety of humanity has already evolved to the (Homo sapiens) Serenissimus evolutionary status, indescribably beyond what humanity is today.

Read more about it here :
http://infinity.usanethosting.com/Heart.Of.God/Hilarion/Hilarion_Angels_Serenissimus.htm

Thank you Kyo, most of it I got as "info" in meditations, to me it's nice to hear other people have similar/same informations. Though I'm not aware of possible simultane incarnations, and it's difficult for me to get through this "place" I call my Big I.

Spooky

(I missed this thread, hence the late reply.)


Quote:

Thank you Kyo, most of it I got as "info" in meditations, to me it's nice to hear other people have similar/same informations. Though I'm not aware of possible simultane incarnations, and it's difficult for me to get through this "place" I call my Big I.

And thanks for sharing and bringing it up in the first place, Spooky, as well as for all your other posts which I do enjoy.

Regarding simultaneous incarnations, it's really about making the concept easier to understand and to relate to in the consciousness of most people. It is true that at the 'individual human soul' level, simultaneous *intraphysical incarnation* is extremely rare, because each lifetime requires much careful focused attention (analogous to a CPU intensive task), and so multi-tasking in the sense of running two or more super intensive tasks, are ill-advised, self-sabotaging, and thus extremely rare. Usually it is in the case of identical twins, that the 'multi-tasking' becomes much easier, and thus it becomes more viable an option.

However, as I said, it's really about helping people understand the concept (first and foremost; the question of frequency of actual occurrence practice of this at any level including the intraphysical, can then be discussed). Because simultaneous beingness, projection or exploration by the consciousness, even at the individual human soul level, *does* indeed occur. Three examples for this follows.

Bruce (Moen) has written about this, in which the person is physically awake, and yet simultaneously in an extraphysical projected state witnessed by another projector.

Robert Bruce has written about this, in which he could simultaneously see his projected self through his physical eyes, and at the same time see his physical self through his projected eyes. He calls this the 'mind-split', and notes that most people are unaware of this phenomenon.

Michael Newton has written about this, in which his research findings on the intermissive period (ie. life-between-life period) indicates that each individual human soul only incarnates a chosen percentage, eg. 70%, of his/her soul or consciential energy, into the physical body for the duration of the entire lifetime. The remaining 30% remains at the 'higher self' level, or could be taken to be the 'higher self', that continues to be active in the spirit world or extraphysical, whilst always maintaining an intimate connection to the incarnated self or personality. Intuition could be considered communications from the higher self.  



Quote:

it's difficult for me to get through this "place" I call my Big I.

Assuming you are referring to 'individual ego', yes ego (which is really the tendency to fall into the illusion of separation from others/All-the-Cosmos; forgetting that the separation is only in form, not in essence) can be quite a nuisance. Much of Karma (to be technically accurate, the aspect of Karma that the IAC calls "evolutionary inertia", which is the tendency for repeating old habit patterns, mostly unproductive or unevolved ones), as defined by clairvoyant seer Charles Breaux, author of "Way of Karma", is due to the ego's self-identity and survival instinct gone wrong, and resulting in a self-identity (and hence tenacious struggle, repeated over and over again), based on various 'stuck' concepts of self-identity, effectively becoming into deep seated issues that manifest across many lifetimes as simultaneous cause-and-effect, including many traumatic relationships, experiences and suffering.

Some people think that the root cause of their karma and suffering came from a certain past life. In a sense, that is correct. But also see the bigger picture, that the seed of that particular Karma or issue, came from within the Soul, to be precise, the need for that soul (by free will) to explore a particular issue, hence attracting various experiences that are actually the effect, but also simultaneously the cause (creating further karma), for various experiences across lifetimes.

For instance, in this life, a person might have an allergy to cats. Past life regression or clairvoyant investigation might reveal that the person was mauled to death by a lion in a past life. Or as another example, a victim of sexual abuse or incest in this lifetime. Again, there can be usually be found some connection between victim and perpetrator in a past life. Sometimes, though rarely, it is a role-reversal, but usually it is a repeating pattern of sorts, and with the same negative intrusion/attachment involved.

But in all of these cases, from a higher viewpoint, there must have been some higher lesson (though this in no way condones the anti-cosmoethical actions of abuse and harm to another; the negative Karma that results for the perpetrator is inescapable, but that's his issue and learning, and another story altogether), or higher purpose, or potential for learning, balancing and evolution of the soul, that seeded from within the soul in the first place, wanting or needing to explore a certain aspect of existence or learning, and thus attracting and manifesting various experiences (each of which create their own karma, or modify and evolve existing related karma), throughout the individual's series of physical incarnations.

It is important that people, including past life hypnotists and regressionists, understand and appreciate this point. That a present life issue or difficulty, can not be truly solved (in terms of evolutionary purpose, or the point of the entire issue in the first place) by simply going into a schema of linear cause-and-effect from a past life event. But seeing the bigger picture, why the soul needed to experience the first such experience in that distant past life in the first place.

It always relates back to the needs of the soul (ie. the causative seed comes from within), and manifested *across* physical lifetimes in various ways and issues. The whole purpose being to explore, balance and ultimately to grow and evolve in a certain area.

The cat allergy in *this* lifetime ('caused' by the traumatic mauling by a lion in a past life), serves an important purpose, in fact, serving the individual him/her - to allow him/herself the opportunity to properly explore this issue within his/her soul, to balance the karma, by letting go of various limiting beliefs, of various concepts of self-identity, of seeing and understanding *Clearly* (see the work of Byron Katie) the true meaning of one's own reactions, thoughts and emotions, to the issue, and finally to move into a place of greater love, with regards to that issue. That's how evolution works, and that's the purpose of Karma.

Hey Kyo,

Great post! I was wondering about the ideas of karma and reincarnation... If a soul reincarnates to get over past life traumas/sufferings, and the incarnation at their present moment is not helping them (possibly hindering them) to procure previous dispositions... will there "next" incarnation be set up "easier"/more efficienctly, or do the souls just keep digging themselves in deeper and deeper until some fluke happening finally snaps them back, and onto the right track?

Thanks,

PUL,
Cosmic_Ambitions

wrote on Apr 28^th, 2006 at 12:38am:

Hey Kyo, Great post! I was wondering about the ideas of karma and reincarnation... If a soul reincarnates to get over past life traumas/sufferings, and the incarnation at their present moment is not helping them (possibly hindering them) to procure previous dispositions... will there "next" incarnation be set up "easier"/more efficienctly, or do the souls just keep digging themselves in deeper and deeper until some fluke happening finally snaps them back, and onto the right track? Thanks, PUL, Cosmic_Ambitions

Hi Cosmic_Ambitions,

No, the next life will not *necessarily* be either 'easier', or 'more difficult'. Both are possible, depending on the learning style of the soul, his/her own free will and choices, and from the perspective, understanding and planning of the individual's guides, helpers, counselors, angels (though their role are usually more behind-the-scenes) and designated Evolutionary Orientor (who appears with other important Teachers of that soul, on the 'Council of Elders', as termed by Michael Newton).

Both principles do apply simultaneously.

On the one hand, just as if a student fails a test and is given a repeat test, it'll have to be tougher. This is the case for suicide (not euthanasia). The suicidee will have to face the same emotional difficulty that drove him/her to suicide, not only in the afterlife or intermissive period, but also in the next lifetime, with greater intensity and difficulty, for the soul to prove to him/herself that he/she has the strength to overcome this weakness.

On the other hand, if no progress is made, or even backsliding occurs, for a particular issue that the soul isn't handling very well, the guides & helpers (a generic term for all beings performing the *role* of guides & helpers to the soul, including the Teachers and Evolutionary Orientor) may plan upcoming lifetimes to take a break from that issue, and to more productively delve into other, shall we say healthier, issues for the soul instead. But the original difficult issue which the soul temporarily took a break from, must be returned to awareness, balanced and evolved, in a future existence, usually a physical lifetime or experience is needed for this (this goes back to the unique opportunities for learning and growth, afforded only by the intraphysical experience).

So it is not dogmatic, by any means. Whatever works, whatever helps. That's how the higher guides & helpers function, ie. intelligently, not dogmatically.

Indeed, in the practical application of these principles, one can see how both principles work hand-in-hand, harmoniously rather than antagonistically.



Quote:

or do the souls just keep digging themselves in deeper and deeper until some fluke happening finally snaps them back, and onto the right track?

Nothing is left to 'fluke', because every lifetime, every existence, is so precious to the Whole/God/All-The-Cosmos. No one is without guides & helpers, or beings that love him/her/it. It is only in the consciousness of some, who due to various personal issues, prefer not to be involved in various forms or ideas of what they might misunderstand a relationship with a guide/helper to be like, and so for these people who imagine "I don't want a guide or helper!", then by all means, they won't have guides or helpers, at least not in the limited way they might have imagined a relationship with a guide or helper to be. (eg. those with issues of oppression as amongst their karmic themes, with authority figures, who imagine guides, helpers, and Evolutionary Orientors, to be intrusive and oppressive, or represent intrusion and oppression).

But does the cop across the street, or the cashier that served you at the supermarket, not act in some role of a 'helper' to you? Or the lovely little puppy, or the beauty of the forests, not act as a 'guide' to open your heart?

So it is such, that as one begins to see clearly, as one begins to open him/herself to greater willingness, to greater possibilities, to greater freedom (coming from greater Clarity), as one evolves in the understanding, experience and ownership of the Universal Laws, one sees that essentially, that which is within him/herself, and by this time it is usually Love, assistantiality and helpfulness, will be that which forms the basis of his/her relationship with the entire Cosmos, with all other beings in the Cosmos.

(We give thanks to & for the higher guide & helper beings who helped us bring through the above communication, message and loving energy).



Back to your question, Cosmic_Ambitions,


Quote:

or do the souls just keep digging themselves in deeper and deeper until some fluke happening finally snaps them back, and onto the right track?

The guides & helpers will intervene, so to speak. Whether it is in the conext of a single physical incarnation, or in the greater context of a series of physical incarnations, whenever the individual is seen to be backsliding or sidetracking from, losing his way from the original plan or existential program, then the guides & helpers will set into motion a series of reminders, symbols and events to short circuit the downward spiral, as far as is appropriate or calculated to be helpful to the individual.

Unfortunately for many people, who have time and time again refused their own willingness to explore their own compassion & love, higher natures, karmic themes, or a deeper spiritual purpose to their lives, and especially if they're indulging in damaging habit patterns, detrimental to not merely themselves but to others around them, and wasting the significant effort of their own higher self, their guides, helpers, karmic soul family or group, their Evolutionary Orientor and their Angels, ie. their entire extraphysical team of love & support, then for the sake of the individual, the wake up call will have to be as forceful as is necessary.

This will usually take the form of a trauma, and from the viewpoint of self-responsibility, it is a self-created trauma on two levels. It is self-created because of the individual's own unwillingness to 'learn the easy way', so to speak. Eg. to have to experience a similar pain, to realize the unlovingness of his abusive actions to others. It is also self-created, for all suffering is such, when one realizes that lack-of-clarity and lack-of-love, is always at the root of all suffering (see the work of Byron Katie). These go hand-in-hand, because the very act of Evolution leads one to greater Clarification, and the very act of Clarification leads one to greater Evolution. (Hint : to greatly accelerate your spiritual evolution, *practice* the Clarification method as conceptualized by, among others, Byron Katie, today).

Finally, a last point to add in reply to your question. If a soul appears to be, due to recalcitrant traits, lack of clarity, very difficult karmic issues, and exacerbated by difficult intrusion, (incidentally, all of the above usually comes together, they're each other's cause and effect), seriously stuck in a downward spiral with each successive lifetime, with regards to one or several (again, these inevitably influence each other intimately) learning issues or karmic themes, then steps will be taken by the guides & helpers to move (forcefully if necessary) the soul into a place of alternative choice, to provide opportunity to the soul, to let him see that such negative choices, of self-suffering and/or harm to others, is *not* the only way (which is how the soul must be seeing it, else why would he be stuck?).

The possible variations and nuances of the delivery of this antidote becomes interesting. For instance, if a soul has been stuck in a role of abusive husband or male partner, for many lifetimes in a doward spiral, the guides & helpers may likely arrange for the soul to incarnate as a female, and furthermore arrange (assist in the delivery of the automatic karma, more precisely) to be invariably attracted into a relationship with an abusive man. This didactic or pegagogical method has the advantagous feature of opportunity (conditional only to the willingness of the individual to learn and evolve from this experience) for the balancing of his/her own karma from past harmful actions to others, and as well as, together with further planning, provide the opportunity for the individual to step away from, to free him/herself from, the negative downward spiral of ill-conceived habit patterns.

Such may take the form of, subsequently arranging for the opportunity for a balanced, loving relationship with another, more evolved individual (now acting in some capacity as a 'guide' or 'helper', but in the intraphysical context). Though there may be residual psychological difficulties from the prior abusive relationship with others (both the abusive man, and now with clarity, the other women the soul had abused in the past), but given the opportunity to contrast the quality, tenderness, affection, genuine caring and sincerity of the new relationship, the soul then takes on a new perspective and understanding, not only (now realizing) of the harm it had caused to others, but most importantly, the preciousness of any relationship as an expression and experience of love, of mutual assistantiality, or an evolutionary partnership, and in the highest form, an Evolutionary Duo.

And when this breaking-of-dawn-of-light finally happens for such a soul (seen to be had been stuck in a downard spiral across many lifetimes), the guides & helpers high-five each other.

(On Evolutionary Duo, see - http://infinity.usanethosting.com/Heart.Of.God/IAC/index.htm#EvolutionaryDuo )


Now, in practice, there are near limitless possibilities, complex karmic scenarios and complex relationships, that will have to be taken into consideration by the guides, helpers and Evolutionary Orientor, as well as the existential programs of other souls intimately associated with this one, before a specific plan can be formulated. (It's a demanding job to be sure, but one that is it's own reward - compassion, love, assisting and helping others).

And of course, we at NASA can formulate all the plans we want, but should the astronaut on Mars decide to hit the self-destruct button of the spacecraft for the thrill of it, well.


For detailed and very illuminating examples of this process in action (ie. how the guides & helpers introduce new themes, new relationships, and changes into the individual's series of incarnations, to help the individual learn particular karmic lessons), see Charles Breaux's "Way of Karma".

A *very* highly recommended Read, for *everyone* :
http://infinity.usanethosting.com/Heart.Of.God/WayOfKarma/index.htm

Thanks Kyo,

Again, your replies are otherworldly! I appreciate the depth and sincerity...

I'm going to have to re-read through that post a few times, to really drive home some key points.

Thanks for the links below, I'm going to investigate those further.

Again, your articulation is magnetic!

Thanks once more,
PUL,
Cosmic_Ambitions

P.S. Regarding the music link that you provided under the "Heart Chakra Revisited" thread... I've been habitually listening to all of it... (Especially "Michael Maxwell - The Elegance of Pachelbel). -- Great soothing energizing music in the morning... especially after a cup of coffee!

P.S.S. Say for example, I and a fellow probe, at the very beginning of the first launch from "The Source"... Dove head long into our "very first" incarnation endeavors on planet "X" in the physical... If both, I, and my fellow probe-mate were "virgins" when it came to the aspects of physical incarnations, and were untainted by previous karmic debts... What would elicit one of us to go astray from achieving our planned existential completism goals? Considering we don't have previous karmic debts to work through? Or are karmic debts built for us, as a way to learn/grow, even "before" our first incarnations into the physical planes... Hence, the origins of individuality/personality.

I still have yet to read through those links that you so kindly provided, so forgive me if this has already been addressed... (either in the post below, "which I'm going to re-read a few times, or in the links provided.) Also, my mind has to absorb, discharge, and reintegrate a lot of "things" when considering mind expanding topics, such as this... So, again, forgive me if I seem to "rehash" old discussions.

Thanks again!... It's really appreciated. :)

Dear Cosmic_Ambitions,

Thanks again for your kind words, they are appreciated. And you're more than welcome! My thanks to you for expressing your opinion, and for the opportunity to be of service.

And we (Kyo et al) too, deeply give of our own appreciation and gratitude to our colleague guides & helpers, angels, Hilarion and all beings of higher vibration that have helped us (past, present and future) to bring through these messages and energies, and continue to do so. Our appreciation and gratitude to you, to all of you, now, always and forever.

I particularly noted (with appreciation and gratitude) the overlighting presence particularly strongly at various points in my post (and posts), for instance such as the following paragraph, as I translated and iterated the energies into human language and typed it out :

So it is such, that as one begins to see clearly, as one begins to open him/herself to greater willingness, to greater possibilities, to greater freedom (coming from greater Clarity), as one evolves in the understanding, experience and ownership of the Universal Laws, one sees that essentially, that which is within him/herself, and by this time it is usually Love, assistantiality and helpfulness, will be that which forms the basis of his/her relationship with the entire Cosmos, with all other beings in the Cosmos.




Quote:

P.S. Regarding the music link that you provided under the "Heart Chakra Revisited" thread... I've been habitually listening to all of it... (Especially "Michael Maxwell - The Elegance of Pachelbel). -- Great soothing energizing music in the morning... especially after a cup of coffee!

Glad you enjoy it! Pachelbel's Canon is simply Angelic, as are the multitude of versions based on his theme. Michael Maxwell is an especially talented and gifted musician, his various arrangement of Pachelbel's Canon is wonderful! I still regularly (every now and then) enjoy playing George Winston's "Variations on the Kanon" on the piano, it's beauty never fails to touch me emotionally.

For the benefit of other readers, for those interested, here is my Pachelbel Canon webpage url again :
http://infinity.usanethosting.com/Canon



Quote:

P.S.S. Say for example, I and a fellow probe, at the very beginning of the first launch from "The Source"... Dove head long into our "very first" incarnation endeavors on planet "X" in the physical... If both, I, and my fellow probe-mate were "virgins" when it came to the aspects of physical incarnations, and were untainted by previous karmic debts... What would elicit one of us to go astray from achieving our planned existential completism goals? Considering we don't have previous karmic debts to work through? Or are karmic debts built for us, as a way to learn/grow, even "before" our first incarnations into the physical planes... Hence, the origins of individuality/personality. I still have yet to read through those links that you so kindly provided, so forgive me if this has already been addressed...

*Heheh!* Yes indeed, I would suggest and ask that you read the *entire* book, Charles Breaux's "Way of Karma", before we pick up on this question again. And yes, with regards to your particular multi-question above, you would find most of the answer within that book. If there are still futher gaps or queries (on this particular issue) after you've read the entire book, I'll do my best to share my perspective and understanding.

Charles Breaux's Way of Karma :
http://infinity.usanethosting.com/Heart.Of.God/WayOfKarma/index.htm


:)
Kyo

I have Pachelbel..I got it from Target. it became like my background music when I write.
I got a feeling from it that it was the place where all humanity is going. my favorite is Variations on Pachelbels Canon, has a tuba that is fantanstic!
I highly reccomend this music if u want to be carried to another world. love, alysia

Hello once again Kyo,

I have read through Charles Breaux's "Way of Karma" (very interesting Kyo)... Thank you.

I still have a few questions/thoughts regarding the aspects of Karma:

Charles wrote: "Until a soul is able to achieve a transcendent perspective, and hence begins to disidentify with its complexes, it will continue to spiral through lifetimes of action and reaction, lifetimes of contrasting opposites..." (Charles Breaux: "Way of Karma". p.256 & 257)

This concept definitely ties in well with seeing the overriding neutrality of duality. I agree. However, I remember reading about a Quantum theorist whom believed he existed within multiple dimensions simultaneously... As a result, he stayed to himself his whole life and avoided any actions or thoughts that would interfere with his other "selves" in other dimensions. Also, this would in theory cleanse the wake of karma that was built up over the lifetimes.

It seems to me that by secluding yourself from the world around you and not participating in the "circus" behind you, that you are, in essence, not participating in the possibilities of helping creation evolve... However, upon interacting with the so called "circus" behind you, you are thereby running the risk of tainting your Karma further, or damaging a "good run" that you may have been consecutively building up over many lifetimes.

It seems to me that the CosmoEthics of Karma encompasses a very fine balance indeed... and that it is almost, (but not quite), an unacheivable task as defined by human standards.

Charles wrote: "The best way to advance is to refrain whenever possible from dwelling on negative thoughts; accept, indeed appreciate, karmic lessons; plant good seeds; and remember, we grow and learn best through love." (Charles Breaux: "Way of Karma". P. 260)

I agree with this statement whole heartedly. However, there are situations/conditions in life that can become very complex/difficult to traverse in all practicality, especially for those willing to participate in the "circus" of life (affording creation), and whom choose not to ignore the world by banning themselves from the world. I have to admit, there are situations in life whereby becoming involved with the world and its inhabitants one is exposing himself/herself to a great deal of possible karmic damage... (I would hate to see what would happen if a Buddha was unwillingly drafted into the military.) ;)

Charles wrote:

"In Asia, the nontheistic religion of Taoism addresses the ultimate reality with a term that simply means "The Way." When we become masters of our own fate, we are not free to do whatever we so please. A Master is a being who has freed himself or herself from the laws of karma by relinquishing attachments and personal identity, and learned how to follow "The Way." The Zen Master Sengstan once said that the Great Way is not difficult for those who have no preferences. When love and hate are both absent, everything becomes clear and undistinguished. If we make the slightest distinction, however, heaven and earth are set infinitely apart. If we wish to see the truth, then we can hold no opinions for or against anything. To set up what we like against what we dislike is just a disease of the mind." (Charles Breaux: "Way of Karma" p. 260)

(I'm not quite sure what to make of this passage.):

"When "love & hate" are both absent everything becomes clear and undistinguished. If we make the slightest distinction, however, heaven and earth are set infinitely apart." (Charles Breaux: "Way of Karma" p. 260)

Maybe I'm understanding this passage wrong... Let's see.... if it was re-written to:

"When love & lack of love are both absent everything becomes clear and undistinguished. If we make the slightest distinction, however, heaven and earth are set infinitely apart.

-- So, if we make the slightest distinction between love & lack of love.... heaven and earth are set infinitely apart...
-- So, there is no distinction between love and lack of love... otherwise, heaven and earth won't be together...
-- So, when there is nothing concerning either in existence. When love & hate (lack of love) are both absent, and everything becomes clear and undistinguished... it is at that very "point" that heaven and earth become one?

I'm not sure I'm understanding this correctly...

Thoughts?
PUL,
Cosmic_Ambitions

P.S. I still couldn't find the answer as to where the initial karmic debt is accumulated from, beings we don't start out with any debt at all? (I wouldn't expect to hear from bill collectors if I just got my credit card 2 seconds ago.) There must be some preordained obstacles set before us, before we even begin our "initial" venture into the physical planes... so that our karmic lives can start from that point and go forward. Otherwise, we would have no reason to reincarnate if we couldn't accrue some debt from somewhere...)

Just my pondy ponderances... (whatever those are worth.) :)

P.S.S. I'm going to petition the powers that be. I would like a banner to be erected around the outskirts of our planet that reads the following:

"Caution: Oracles in progress: Mind limit limitless" LOL! ;)

Hello again, Cosmic_Awareness,

Glad you enjoyed Charles Breaux's "Way of Karma". Your "pondy ponderances" are certainly thoughtful and in-depth, and I do for the moment have not have much in way of comment, to add to them.

Have you read the other "Karma" links on my webpage, by the way? It is probably most appropriate for you to, after having read all of these resources, to come to your own conclusion with regards to your most interesting "pondy ponderances".


----------------------------------------------------

This discussion as set out by Cosmic_Awareness, has great potential for a significantly interesting and perhaps vitally important discussion on Karma. I'm aware that there are many others on this forum (though some appear to have taken temporary/permanent leave) who would have many interesting perspectives and ideas to share on this topic.

I'll choose to mostly sit this one out, and instead, as with Cosmic_Ambitions, invite everyone else to please (feel invited to) share your views and perspectives on this universally-relevant-and-important-to-everyone topic - that of Karma.

I do however, wish to take this opportunity to point out, and invite, everyone (including Cosmic_Ambitions), to furthermore also check out *three* other rather enlightening resources on this subject (of Karma), in addition to Charles Breaux's "Way of Karma", which focus on different aspects of Karma, and (in my personal opinion) are all equally important and revealing about the true nature and purpose of Karma.

Some of you have may have already read them, but if you have not yet done so, please take a little bit of time to check them out now.



Hilarion on Karma (from "Other Kingdoms", channeled by Maurice B Cooke) :
http://infinity.usanethosting.com/Heart.Of.God/Hilarion/Hilarion_on_Karma/index.htm


International Academy of Consciousness (IAC) on Evolutionary Inertia (a topic closely related to Karma) :
http://infinity.usanethosting.com/Heart.Of.God/IAC/index.htm#EvolutionaryInertia


Sanada Jesus Christ on Karma (during the Hilarion Winter Solstice 2005 Channeling, channeled by Jon C Fox) :
http://infinity.usanethosting.com/Heart.Of.God/Hilarion/Hilarion_JesusChristSananda_On_Love.htm

Dear Kyo,

Enjoyed your reply to Cosmic_Ambition about personalities. It also helps to explain and understand when the 'enlightened ones' or 'gurus' say there is No Personal Self there is only One.

As my teacher once said to me, "There is no human 'Being' just Oneness 'Being' and you are that."

Peace,
Paradox

Dear Paradox,

Thanks and glad you enjoyed it.


Indeed, one could put it in this way :


The Meaning of Life is Love,
The Meaning of Love is God,
The Meaning of God is ONE.


It may true that because of the damage caused by religion and dogma, some might prefer not to use the term 'God' at all. But we believe it is completely workable to have the 'best-of-both-worlds', that the deep reverence and sacred love that countless good people have come to understand in their hearts as 'God', can be realized and actualized together with the truth of greater multidimensional reality, spiritual enlightenment and consciential evolutionology.

That when one looks into the eyes (and thus into the soul) of a precious loved one, whether it be a spouse, a friend, a child, an animal, a plant, an angel, our extraterrestrial cousins, the Earth, or even the Stars, and one has the willingness to see the truth with one's Heart - that it is verily *God* that is the true identity of the one (and all) whom you love, and it is *God* that is the true identity of the one (and all) whom loves you.

So happy to see music mentioned, especially Canon in D by Johann Pachelbel. I play the piano and classicals are my favorite. Fur Elise is also another favorite. When I started playing them, I then truly understood the meaning of 'Music for the Soul.'

Peace,
Paradox

Quote:

So happy to see music mentioned, especially Canon in D by Johann Pachelbel. I play the piano and classicals are my favorite.

Here, try David Lanz's version of the Canon. It's wonderful!

http://infinity.usanethosting.com/Canon/DavidLanz_PachelbelCanon_Score.zip

Thank you Kyo.....just beautiful.

I've been so impressed with your post and website, today I ordered the complete set of Hilarion Universal law tapes.   ;)

Peace,
Paradox

wrote on Apr 30^th, 2006 at 2:24pm:

Thank you Kyo.....just beautiful. I've been so impressed with your post and website, today I ordered the complete set of Hilarion Universal law tapes.   ;) Peace, Paradox

!!! Oooooh! I do hope you didn't actually order the "tapes" version, but rather the newer CD-Rom version! Back when the Universal Law titles began, CD technology weren't commonplace yet, so the first 'incarnation' were as audio tapes. Then more recently, a few years ago, Jon C Fox began making CD versions of all his channelings (including Personal Readings) available.

If you indeed ordered the 'tapes' version as an oversight, you can e-mail Jon to request for an amendment to the order.

And thank you, for your kind words for my website and post. And yeah, David Lanz's "Variations on a Theme from Pachelbel's Canon in D Major" is simply magical, dreamy fantasy, other-worldly bliss incarnate as music! ;)

(For other readers who might like to hear a sample of the David Lanz masterpiece, instead of playing it on the piano themselves, you can download it from a link on my webpage here)


Peace,
Kyo

Hi CA http://images.bravenet.com/common/images/smilies/wave1.gif  thinking about karma is something I avoided until I got older. probably due to a streak of rebellion against any authority I was born with it seems; a love of feeling free is in there somewhere which I share with everyone I believe.

speaking of karma from personal viewpoint I endured it anyway! but karma=balance. from the discussion above, that sounds like a very good book. i like the part about having no preferences, then it could go either way and you've already decided that whichever way it goes it is a positive experience because you've decided that it would not be seen as negative.
this philosophy I've often considered is myself giving myself a surprise, or allowing surprises to happen by believing in humanity that the basis of our nature is love...once belief systems of all kinds can be set aside, even if only momentarily to see it differently.
I'm proud that I read ACIM which taught me one affirmation I utilized over and over "I am willing to see this differently." pride goes before a fall, so I've fallen on my face quite often, but I still have it! ha ha! http://images.bravenet.com/common/images/smilies/banghead.gif  it was useful. does work, just not in one day to see it differently, then a little more balance slips up on you.
I had an interesting karmic relationship with me mom. I do believe we pick these situations out and return with people we've known before. I've had info that my mother and I have resolved all issues and so we are free from creating that again. I actually "died" as her daughter in the astral. that way, I could get myself retrieved by my loving daughter who told me "I was dead." ha ha! thats what retrievals are for; sometimes we just don't realize we've died. I was lucky, or it was ordained, I got to experience what the dead feel like and also what it meant to be saved by love. I make it sound funny here, but it was most serious while it was happening!  criminy, we spirits can create the most incredible dramas to work our way thru. balance is much more comfortable. once you've died, and survived, it can't get any worse than that, so you are more balanced to accept anything that comes along with a more positive balanced outlook.
I suppose I've led many secular lives, at least 2 or 3 that I know of. and nothing wrong with those lives because in the end, if you've burned off your karma, the meaning of that for me, is you owe nothing to anyone so you've nothing to pay back so much as you pay it forward and you can start giving yourself away free which is better than forcing your belief systems upon others as "the only way." each of us appears to forge our own pathway, although some stay on the beaten track as it appears easier. at some point they vear off on their own.
starting to ramble again, better sign off! I enjoy the threads you make! I love doing my own takes. http://images.bravenet.com/common/images/smilies/grouphug.gif

Thank you Kyo,

I will dive further into this topic of Karma by reading through the links that you so kindly provided. I will also be on the lookout for some meaningful meaningfulness regarding the questions that I have been "pondy pondering"... Suffice it to say, I will dawn my scholarly cap, groom my majestic white beard, pull out my dusty (but, well kept) rocking chair, and begin the quest of a lifetime into the seemingly endless ventures of Karma. I suppose I will toss my ideas onto a well aged oak tree and see what sticks/remains/resonates. ;)

Thanks again for your sincere help and advise... I truly appreciate it!

-------------------------------------------------

Hello LaughingRain Laffingrain!

I enjoyed your delving into this topic of Karma... very interesting/useful ideas you possess there. Your comradery behooves me! ;)

I will have to agree with you on an earlier post of yours:

"I surely do hope we all may one day look back and say it was all worthwile, but nope, wouldn't do it again.... no way! Not with the fire in me now!"

I will surely sail with you on that boat! Let's just hope the wind is strong enough to carry the two of us!

Now to the immense reading I've unknowingly accumulated...

PUL,
Cosmic_Ambitions

P.S. I think, therefore I am... How about I change that around a little bit... I am, therefore I think... (there.... "much" better.) ;)

Thanks for the info Kyo, but the Audio tapes are what I wanted.  Looking forward to receiving them.

Peace,
Paradox

I wanted to add something in regards to Karma that I "just" read on the Near-Death-Experience-Research-Foundation website (www.nderf.org) that I believe is quite useful considering our discussion:

Mary R's ADC... Mary wrote the following pertaining to her grandmother's departure into spirit, and the encounters that she had with her grandmother whilst she herself was undergoing surgery... This is an *AMAZING* insight into the functionability/methodologies of Karma in and of itself!

Mary wrote:

"She likened the soul to a "puzzle cube" I believe she meant a rubric cube.  The cube was the whole soul.  Each side was a section of our soul, each space was a learning experience required for each section of the soul.  As she explained it each section of the soul touched a different dimension, and would continue returning to that dimension until all the spaces of learning were completed.  Then that dimensional level would not repeat, and your soul would work on the next section.  I know it is confusing, I do not still understand it all.  She also said that only a portion of your complete spirit was housed in the human body with each reincarnation.  It was directly connected to your "core" soul.  When your "human" portion of soul would learn, it would directly impact the "core" soul.  She also alluded to the fact that a human body could sometime hold more than 1 "human" portion of a soul connected to different "core" soul.  This was more common when the earth was less populated.  Each soul yearns to learn and complete its lessons, so "human" vessels would be shared.  Once the "puzzle" of the soul was competed your whole spirit would remain intact with all the knowledge it collected, it would not have to return to a vessel, and would live in the presence of God forever.  It is so much information I can't remember all she said at this time.  But, I will say she alluded to the fact that there were other "vessels" of learning for our soul other than those here on earth.  The other striking comment that she was in contact with my core soul and I would from time to time feel her presence because our "learning" portion of our soul is connected to the "core" soul."

It is complicated, I know. So I will leave it here with her words of enlightenment.  I can say she was a staunch catholic, so some of her explanations surprised me.  

At the end of the encounter she hugged me, and cackled.  She said her goodbye for now, and stated she was excited to return to her "core" soul.  That although she wasn't a completed soul yet, the time in "heaven" where the "core" soul resided is amazing.

It felt like seconds, and I was waking up to see my sister sitting next to my bed.  I could see she was upset, and before she told me about my grandmothers death, I told her I already knew grandma had died.  

I had tried to push some of this to the back of my mind, trying to rationalize it as a dream. Until years later I heard a program on the radio.  It talked about Physicists mathematically proving 11 or 12 dimensions.  And, her words flooded back.  And to this day I only told a select few friends and family members about her visit. I am not a scientist, and at the time knew very little about physics.  I know more now, but it is still a rudimentary knowledge.  I believe she contacted me, I believe what she said, even if I don't understand it all."

Thanks to "Mary" for this wonderful insight! :)

PUL,
Cosmic_Ambitions

Hi Cosmic Ambitions,

I just want to say what Mary experienced is nearly the same regarding the incarnation topic like I got through my meditations, just other symbols (no cube). I'd only like to make two remarks: When completed the earth-experiences I'd say instead being eternally with god, the great self is evolving into a new level or realm, like Monroe wrote ("wink out"). But this may be just other words for essentially the same. The other thing is, I'm not referring to physics, talking about a certain number of dimensions or something similar, I don't think spiritual experiences are close to physics (though quantum mechanics can make one confront with seemingly impossible facts, which can cause someone to doubt about the old-style-solid world).

And thanks Kyo for your respond!

Think I will write again sth in this thread,

Spooky

Thanks spooky2,

I agree with you as well, that spiritual experiences aren't very close to physics with regards to the true nature of our "multi-dimensionality". There's a lot of elements contained within the spiritual states that are extremely complex, and for the most part beyond what our human minds are capable of withstanding/understanding... There are many things with respect to the spirit world that are undefinable by human standards.

I can't wait for the day when all of us on this forum can meet up on the "other side", and say:

"Wow!"... "So, we finally meet..." "What do we talk about now?" "What do we contemplate "now"?... for I know what you know, and I know what we know we know..." "Odd isn't it?".... "Yes, odd... yet, ***OH SO WONDERFULL!!!***" ;) "Come... there's something I must show you." "You won't *BELIEVE* what I found..." ;D

PUL,
Cosmic_Ambitions

Cosmic Ambitions, yes I have similar thoughts about such a meeting! If you have some money and some time, maybe make a trip to TMI, many like minded people I saw there, kind of family.

Hi all!

I was thinking about this thread, and I remembered I have different infos about how it works, reincarnation and personalities. They seemed not to fit together:

1. I once asked about me, in the state immediately before my present incarnation. Then, there were two persons, one was me, they looked down on a screen or something similar. That "I" said: "Oh no, I will mess it up once more. I don't want to." The other said: "You KNOW it is the best for you." That "I" replied: "Well, allright, yes..."

2. Other infos say: This is my last incarnation. With my experiences my total self (disc/ I/There) will be able to interprete the other gathered experiences in a new way. It will ba able then to make a step further in a different level. All lifes (of the probes) are stored within the total self. The "I s" of the probes/persons merge with the total self. You will not get new Karma in this life, you're released of the reincarnation cycle. [You might think "Now Spooky is getting much too spacy!" That's what I thought too!] Every new person to reincarnate was created of parts from the total self.

So, for me it didn't fit together that I obviously was just another worried soul sent to another learning trip down to earth (1.), but at the same time this should be my last incarnation, and I'm already released (2.)? No, don't work. And on the one hand I had reincarnated as a person with more or less the same traits (indicated by some past life "movies") and on the other hand every time a person is created new from some parts of the total self (which contains maany lifes)? This too seemed not logical to me.

Therefore, I asked about that today in a meditation:
"Some souls don't merge again with their total self after a life cycle. They forgot. They got used to the limitations of the physical life, so that they don't accept infos from their total self anymore. They are still parts of their total self, but they don't notice it. Then, there will be a reincarnation cycle of this single-person, so it seems to them, but they are still fed with infos from their total self, gently, on a subconscious level, and they even will receive new traits and personality parts from their higher self, and they still will not notice it. But finally they will awake. That had happened to you when you had noticed, or had found it is possible, that you are part of something greater, or that you are greater than a physical single being. Then your reincarnation cycle had found an end. Your present life is re-integration, return, reunion- from your perspective. From our you were never separated, but in your mind you were. There ever was a flow of data, from you to the whole, and from us to you. And of course, the helpers are from your total self, or working together with it in harmony. Once, you wanted always to go away, to find the wisdom outside, a frontier man, a discoverer, but separated from yourself and others by doing this."
I asked to give me proof, something sensational, which makes me really believe it. With a smile, I was told: "It is important to let you go your own way, it is necessary. You will only accept what you want to accept. There is no way to force your personality with impressing miracles when you are not ready for that." Then I saw briefly my helpers (especially one woman, ever heard of a love affair with a helper?), and some glimpses of places where I've been on my mind journies, as if to express: "Now, you think you made this all up?"
I too have asked additionally on the purpose of my current life. Shortcuts of before and from this life came on my mind, and it was as if I had something in my body made of steel. It seemed to symbolize a sort of toughness. An iron will, but in the same time stubborn. On the one hand a risk of further separation, on the other hand a chance with own thoughts to find back to the source.


Am I crazy or what? You know people, would you say something rings true of that, or would you say "Well, Spooky, see it the psychologic way..."? --Just a worried mind. A bit.

Spooky

Wow, excellent enlightenment Kyo & Spooky!   Not to go off topic but I wonder what you or anyone thinks of the "many worlds" view of quantum physics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Many_worlds) ?  With similar views, I have come to believe that it might be impossible to have only one world.  And
has anyone here ever discussed the "What the Bleep" movie? Not that I am a Ramtha recruit, the answer to  mastering this physical world has got to be SOMEWHERE!  (I am not particularly excpeting that this will be seen and/or answered, but maybe...)  Sue

Spooky said: Am I crazy or what? You know people, would you say something rings true of that, or would you say "Well, Spooky, see it the psychologic way..."? --Just a worried mind. A bit.
______

nah...if your crazy, I'm more crazy, it pretty much fits, but theres more to it than what we get with the disc concept. I like the curiosity story and seem to understand that better than the disc one. I think we are supposed to take what Bruce has given us and enhance it somehow with our own experiences. when I get confused about being a grilled cheese with DP my guide, I just practice thinking that we are all one, not separate, on the intrinsic spirit level, but can remain individuals if that is our desire. and yes I do believe we can have love affairs with our guides because undistorted love is different than love on Earth which is self serving at best.
hugs, alysia

Quote:

Am I crazy or what? You know people, would you say something rings true of that, or would you say "Well, Spooky, see it the psychologic way..."? --Just a worried mind. A bit.

Hello Spooky, this is certainly an 'internal affairs' matter, and on this personal respect, we will make no further direct comment. Simply put, this is always a personal matter that every Soul and Oversoul/Disc (and *their* own Oversoul/Disc, and so on) will determine for him/her/themselves, and their modality or evolutionary path will, being subject to his/her/their own fee will and choice, differ from Soul/OverSoul/Disc to Soul/OverSoul/Disc.

But if the matter is pressingly important in your consciousness to resolve (ie. to come to terms with a particular understanding), then (though we're aware you probably won't) a channel of personalized advice that will be found to be *very* helpful, no matter what the nature or level of your issues, is... ("oh no, Kyo's going there again...")... the H-Reading.


Hello Sue, there are indeed infinite dimensions, universes and realities in existence; however, crossing over from one universe to another (note that 'parallel' is a relative term), while this has indeed been done, is a (relatively) rare occurence, with controllable consequences. Meaning to say that it is not currently a pressing issue in human consciousness, or in the minds of the guides & helpers of humanity, and so on.

As with time travel technology (that have been developed extensively by various specific extraterrestrial groups), the utilization of such technologies, do not affect human consciousness or evolution, at least not in a direct manner that is of much relevance.

Thank you Alysia and Kyo!
Today on my meditation I went here and there in the darkness, or some brief scenes came, it was a kind of nothing, but I felt refreshed afterwards. So, I have just to digest all those informations at my own speed, being serene and easy.

Spooky

Thanks for all of your amazing replies to this thread Kyo! :D

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Hey spooky2!

spooky2 wrote:

"Today on my meditation I went here and there in the darkness, or some brief scenes came, it was a kind of nothing, but I felt refreshed afterwards."

I remember having one day in my life, where I woke up more "refreshed"/"invigorated" than anything I could have ever thought possible/imagined... It "felt" as if I had been on a long voyage through the most magical/serene/peaceful/tranquil place I could ever experience... I also had the "feeling" that I had been accompanied whilst on this "journey" with whom felt to be "Jesus"... This is all really hard to explain, for I didn't have any memories of the actual journey in and of itself... But, I had this immense indescribable "feeling" that it had all occured. I remember upon waking, smelling this "unearthly" fragrance in my bedroom. I've never smelled anything so soothing and comforting since!

Just thought I'd share that in reference to your "experience" you described with the feelings of being "refreshed"...

PUL,
Cosmic_Ambitions  

thanks Cosmic and Spooky
(notice we have funny names here..hee.)

speaking of being refreshed spiritually..the time I recall being the most refreshed was after suffering with the collective truama of 9/11. I set a vague intention to go find some relief in my emotions.

it was on a Sunday morning the clouds disappeared and the sun in my soul returned after I had gone somewhere in my spirit in the night. all I remember was there was an immense crowd of souls, I don't know how I found a seat, didn't seem important whether I stood on the fringe or not... we had all come together for the same purpose..to be inspired by this speaker. he was male. I didnt' get a name. the  folks came and went and absorbed all he said about 9/11. I didn't need to remember the words but all in all the message was that good would come from what happened and we would understand this later.

I was so hurt and confused before attending, I came back to wakefulness and I knew everything would be ok. and then I checked to see if there was any more retrievals to be done. love, alysia

Yes Alysia and Cosmic Ambitions, I can relate to that. Once when I was really at the bottom, I prayed for relief before sleep, and the next morning I just felt empty- like when you did some sports; not really full of power, just empty, but relieved from the deep sorrow. But I have no memories of what happened when I was asleep.

Hope it isn't too stretched, it shows how flexible and various our personalities are I think.

Sometimes when I'm in meditation and it seems to me like I'm not relaxed, and the heart is beating etc. I think when I feel it's time to go back to full physical awareness, "Oh, I will feel weak after this", but just the opposite is the case then.

Spooky

Hey laffingrain,

laffingrain wrote:

(notice we have funny names here...hee.)

You know what they say laffingrain! "Birds of a feather flock together!" LOL! ;)

I enjoyed reading both your and spooky2's "refreshment" experiences/posts...

I've noticed while meditating, after receiving the heart beat, vibrations, etc... that sometimes after the meditation is over I feel refreshed, and other times I feel utterly exhausted. Like I ran a marathon! Not sure why the flucuations? Maybe it depends on the amount of energy I have before beginning the meditation, and also, the food intake that I had for the day... I'm still not sure though. I do however enjoy the feelings of invigorating energy that my body gets when my astral counterpart begins "loosening" within my physical body! It kinda feels like a really soft bed sheet moving/flowing freely within its physical constraints... very soothing/relaxing.

I remember reading somewhere that eating before meditating can actually deter one from achieving an adequate meditation session because the food actually pulls the energy/focus of the body into the process needed to manage/digest the food... Have any of you heard anything regarding this? I was just curious because I usually have a bowl of cereal before bed... (maybe I shouldn't do that anymore!?)


PUL,
Cosmic_Ambitions

I donno Cosmic that it makes any difference as I ate a big plate of speghetti once and passed out and did my hugest most realistic and mind blowing retrieval of a teenage girl in trouble...this what finally convinced me I had graduated to a new level of retrieving. I say I passed out, but not really...I had done some energy gathering exercise before the retrieval and so it bypassed any effects eating might do....the energy gathering exercise entailed being on top of the world and hugging it...I know, it sounds so new agey and silly, I was laughing at myself, but I cannot deny what happened afterwards as I was out of my body before my head hit the pillow..sha boom! like a rocket. it was so real, and I had asked for it to be real to me too. so u have to ask. I remembered that part. and a guide helped from the start. or my own higher self.

but as for foods, I think eating "living" foods is beneficial rather than dead foods depleted of nutrients. I'm going thru a program now to reverse the aging process..I'll let u know if I am successful! don't know why I can't be, as every cell in the body is replaced each 7 years and I'll be around another 7 years I'm sure! keep in touch! ha ha!
http://images.bravenet.com/common/images/smilies/bouncer.gif

Your style is impeccable LaughingRain laffingrain! LOL!  ;)

LaughingRain wrote:

"The energy gathering exercise entailed being on top of the world and hugging it... I know, it sounds so new agey and silly, I was "Luaghing-Rain" at myself, but cannot deny what happened afterwards as I was out of my body before my head hit the pillow... sha boom! Like a rocket."

I don't think imagining yourself being on top of the world and hugging it sounds "silly" neccessarily... I usually picture the entire world in my mind, then I picture myself gliding down into the atmosphere and transforming into a shield of comforting/protecting light that wraps around the world... Sometimes if there is a particular person that I know needs healing of some sort, I will imagine that person in my mind and create a beam of light that encircles them, as to "hopefully" create healing... Also, sometimes I do a sort of "wax on wax off" with my hands... I'll take both of my hands, raise them in the air, and create little circles with them... In one hand I'll imagine the circles I create as taking all the negative things away from a specific person in need, and with the other hand, I imagine that the little circles are creating a warm healing within that person...

I have no confirmations as to whether this process actually works or not... But, at least I'm trying "something". LOL!

PUL,
Cosmic_Ambitions


P.S. Also, I've been imaginatively wondering... I have read numerous reports about the effects that positive thoughts, music, etc... can have on the molecular structure of water. (i.e. after being analyzed under an electron microscope in its frozen state, water has been observed as having changed its molecular structure based on say positive and negative thought patterns, whereas, with positive happy thoughts the water looks rather well kept, well organized... v.s., with negative, angry, frustrated thoughts, the water molecules become unorganized, splattered in appearance, and rather unkept...) I got to "Cosmic" wondering ;)... Does this imply, (because water is the basic ingredient to all lifeforms/substances), that if we talk to our cereal "pleasantly" in the morning before we eat it, or say complement the water in the shower before we wash up, that it will in turn make us healthier/more productive? I haven't heard any reports about how the water's medicinal purposes change as a result of its molecular morphism... but, it is an interesting thought to pondy ponder upon...

P.S. #2... (You won't find me any day of the week talking up my cereal in a public restaurant!) LOL! ;)

Hi Cosmic Ambitions,
I've seen on tv an interesting report about water. I recommend you get a book from and/or about
Viktor Schauberger
(I think he died 1958 ), I think he lived in Switzerland, he was an engineer in river- building and seems to have had discovered astonishing facts regarding living water - dead water, such as when water is swirling, it is much more lively than when pressed through smooth tubes. When you google the his name, I guess you'll find many other things regarding the water topic.

Spooky

Thanks much spooky2, I'll give it a quick look see...

I have to admit, I've always been drawn to water my entire life... there is definitely some sort of life force/energy within its fluid aura that eludes me!

It's pretty amazing to hear that water has a sort of "life cycle"... Also, as you noted, "dead water, such as when water is swirling, is much more lively than when pressed through smooth tubes."

Maybe "that" is why I've always been drawn to large bodies of moving water, such as with oceans.

There's much to be said "analogy-wise" with regards to water and our "Source-nature" (i.e. spiritually evolving intraphysical beings...

Thanks again for the reference!
PUL,
Cosmic_Ambitions

Hi all


Just wondering when the old saying "Felt someone walking over my grave" when we get a wierd cold shudder through our back.

Is that someone or something vibrating near our aura?