There's the question.

Do we have to, like according to some law, come back in the earth once in a while? Or do we just want to do it?

wrote on Apr 5^th, 2006 at 7:28am:

There's the question. Do we have to, like according to some law, come back in the earth once in a while? Or do we just want to do it?

Optional i do believe. We do it, so we can learn.. and the more we learn.. the more spiritually super charged we get apparently.. and then you get to have tea and scone's with the ascended beings of eternal light in the upper regions of eternity...

But if thou fails.. you end up in the darkness that is hell!!!, so the more times you re-incarnate the more chances you have on going down there.

So reincarnating is a big risk.. just depends on how much you wanna have tea and scones with the higher ups.

But what is the sin which committing we end up in hell?

From this site I understood that hell isn't eternal or even real if we don't believe it to be. Or that we end up in hell if we "want" to.

wrote on Apr 5^th, 2006 at 8:16am:

But what is the sin which committing we end up in hell? From this site I understood that hell isn't eternal or even real if we don't believe it to be. Or that we end up in hell if we "want" to.

Hell is very real, depending upon the way your mind works..

Say you were given a ferrari.. and you ended up going over the speed limit, and the cops forced you into a road rage class, where they showed you the consequence's of your actions, and release you once you have understood what you have done.

Thats pretty much what hell is, you have been caught doing bad things in your human body and your going to a road rage class... until you have learned your lesson.

The lessons can be very nasty though.. so people wish to avoid the scaring they do to the soul, by being good little happy's while playing the game of life.

That sounds a bit scary to me  :(

I hope the ways to learn are kind. I have a strong fear of going to hell so it won't be nice if that happens.

wrote on Apr 5^th, 2006 at 8:48am:

That sounds a bit scary to me  :( I hope the ways to learn are kind. I have a strong fear of going to hell so it won't be nice if that happens.

One sentence, will keep you free from a hell experience.

Treat others, as you wish to be treated yourself.

Hell work's, in a way, were you recieve - what you have given, so if you give to other's, what you would like to recieve yourself... then many good times await you.

"Treat others, as you wish to be treated yourself"

Joke: What if I'm a masochist.

And now to serious...

Like most of us, I have tried to be a good person and follow this golden rule - as in recently - but in the past I've not been the kindest person in the world. Of course I regret those things, but is that enough?

Besides, sometimes I feel that I'm in hell right now. As I remember every bad thing I have done to others.

And what is it about karma? If we have hell to learn lessons, where do we need reincarnation to do the same? And vice versa.

wrote on Apr 5^th, 2006 at 9:26am:

"Treat others, as you wish to be treated yourself" Joke: What if I'm a masochist. And now to serious... Like most of us, I have tried to be a good person and follow this golden rule - as in recently - but in the past I've not been the kindest person in the world. Of course I regret those things, but is that enough? Besides, sometimes I feel that I'm in hell right now. As I remember every bad thing I have done to others.

A masochist.. will get what he give's.. same as everyone else.. if he does somthing to someone with out there permission, and he knows they wont like it.. he will get something equal to what he gives, yet it does'nt have to be the same, merely equal in pain, wether that is emotion/physical or anything else, just something he aint gonna like forced upon him, so he can understand - that everyone has seperate view's, and it's wrong to force there views upon them.

The way i see it, everyone does bad thing's, but while on earth, you can change anytime you want... if you now understand your action was wrong, then theres no need to have road rage lessons, because it's far easier to undo our mistake's here and now, then it is when we go to the upper realms.

wrote on Apr 5^th, 2006 at 9:32am:

And what is it about karma? If we have hell to learn lessons, where do we need reincarnation to do the same? And vice versa.

Earth/physical realm = quick learning, quick reversing of mistake's.

Hell/lower realms = slow learning, as you recieve lessons, which can make you even more negative then when you arrived... so reversing the damage is slow.

Spitfire,

I simple agree 100% with all that you wrote! ;)

Amazing I could never imagine such a thing! :o

Simple, clear and very meaningfull ;)

I'm not sure if I would be able to explan that way if I needed!!!

I was used to desagree with you.

wrote on Apr 5^th, 2006 at 9:51am:

Spitfire, I simple agree 100% with all that you wrote! ;) Amazing I could never imagine such a thing! :o Simple, clear and very meaningfull ;) I'm not sure if I would be able to explan that way if I needed!!! I was used to desagree with you.

I dont know how to deal with you, when your not screaming at me ??? cant you just call me a few name's, in there... like 'i simply agree with everything you wrote pig'? lol

Cheers.

Sorry man after your last statements I become a fan.
You will need some other guy to scream at you  ;D

PS: Pig

wrote on Apr 5^th, 2006 at 10:30am:

Sorry man after your last statements I become a fan. You will need some other guy to scream at you  ;D PS: Pig

Haha... Very good.

:) isnt life great !!

The most reliable sources seem to state that it is up to us when and if we reincarnate again.

On the other hand, some sources state that reincarnation doesn't work quite like we think. It's more like you're connected to a group of souls, and you share incarnational experiences with each other.

I don't know which version is true.

reincarnation is a need. You can delay it as long as you wish but some problems will persist till you decide to face them in a new physical experience. ;)

I have heard it said both ways.  I'm not sure that I like the idea that we must "wipe" our memories, start in a new body, and then see if our soul has learned the right lessons of love and life in order to mature.  

Free will seems to be at work in all the planes of existence.  Those in self created "hells" certainly are there because their minds close them in with negative thinking.  So, it seems to me that we can advance spiritually at our own pace, but if their are teachers, connected souls - we might be given opportunities to jump back in to the waters of hard knocks on this earth in order to spiritually mature.  I don't know.

Michael Newton's book, Journey of souls, certainly makes a strong case for reincarnation, connected souls using my friend here, Dave's technique of hypnoregression.  If his 30+ years of experience are true then we all have incarnated many times already.  Only thing I can't quite sort out is whether people who access "past lives," are truly accessing themselves, or just someone else through the connectedness of all things.  Don has also posted that sometimes on the astral planes one can merge with another's memories, and they may appear as your own past.  So we have to be wary of accepting all past life information as definitive.

Matthew

Lets put it this way.We are given a long rope with knots every 2 inchs apart.the knots mean past lives,and when we come to the end of our rope,then you will find out where you are going.heaven or hell.we will keep coming back here untill we get it right.George

Hmm. Turned out that there are as many opinions as people in this forum.

Maybe I just wait for 50 years or something, until it's my time and find out.

Related to Doc's post below, when Robert Monroe made contact with his I-there (his third book), I get the impression the selves considered to be his past selves are selves that still existed in their own right, even as his current self existed.

A recent NDE I posted suggests the same. It is as if each self that incarnates is a composite of past incarnations that continue to exist as each new incarnation takes place.

I don't what's true, but I know this is true. Not all people who live in the physical plain today have manifested an inner yearning to know what spiritual truth is.  They'll just continue to believe whatever belief system they learned when they were young, or they won't concern themselves about it.

When it comes to people who are spiritually curious, often to the point of obsession,  it sure doesn't seem like it is simply a matter of how their current incarnational conditioning is effecting them. This factor seems much more compelling to me than answers sceptics aren't able to come up with.


wrote on Apr 5^th, 2006 at 2:13pm:

I have heard it said both ways.  I'm not sure that I like the idea that we must "wipe" our memories, start in a new body, and then see if our soul has learned the right lessons of love and life in order to mature.   Free will seems to be at work in all the planes of existence.  Those in self created "hells" certainly are there because their minds close them in with negative thinking.  So, it seems to me that we can advance spiritually at our own pace, but if their are teachers, connected souls - we might be given opportunities to jump back in to the waters of hard knocks on this earth in order to spiritually mature.  I don't know. Michael Newton's book, Journey of souls, certainly makes a strong case for reincarnation, connected souls using my friend here, Dave's technique of hypnoregression.  If his 30+ years of experience are true then we all have incarnated many times already.  Only thing I can't quite sort out is whether people who access "past lives," are truly accessing themselves, or just someone else through the connectedness of all things.  Don has also posted that sometimes on the astral planes one can merge with another's memories, and they may appear as your own past.  So we have to be wary of accepting all past life information as definitive. Matthew

Spitfire, you said...

A masochist.. will get what he give's.. same as everyone else.
*****************
The way I understand it, is that a masochist "gives"
others the pleasure of beating on him/her.
SO... in the next world, the masochist will become a sadist then? Will he/she get the pleasure of torturing the sadists (just as the sadists got the pleasure of beating the masochist in earthly life?)
Maybe the "overseers" of Hell then, are former masochists! Interesting thought (if I really believed in Hell, that is.)

B-man

You wrote:
*****************
"Treat others, as you wish to be treated yourself"

Joke: What if I'm a masochist.

And now to serious...

Like most of us, I have tried to be a good person and follow this golden rule - as in recently - but in the past I've not been the kindest person in the world. Of course I regret those things, but is that enough?

Besides, sometimes I feel that I'm in hell right now. As I remember every bad thing I have done to others.
*****************
My guess is that our afterlives will be strongly influenced by our MEMORIES of our lives, that they will reflect our dominant basic feelings that we had in life (i.e. if you were a depressive in life, you will have a gloomy, depressing afterlife. If you were happy, you'll have a happy one.)
As far as the people you "mistreated" - I don't know, were you a thief or cheater? Or a bully perhaps (if you're 17, that's my guess as to what you're talking about.)
Assuming you were a bully then (just ASSUMING, mind you) - well, compared to your own "hellish feelings" that you speak of - I'd say your former victims are WAY worse off than you are, as they DESPISE themselves for not getting up the nerve to kick your face in. That is their "hell."
Did you enjoy tormenting them? Then perhaps your afterlife will be (partly, anyway) characterized by the feelings of pride, power, and happiness you felt when you worked weaker people over. (Maybe your "heaven", then, will be one where you get to push people around as much as you like.)
And the people you mistreated? Their "hell" after they die, will be one where they can't stop acting like cowards when faced with aggression, and they will spend eternity feeling like ineffectual weaklings, hiding like rats in holes, only coming out after dark, and hating the sound of their own voices. Why? Because subconsciously they FELT like cowards for NOT taking you on in life, no matter how they rationalized not standing up to you as "smart" or "good" or what have you.
Sound crazy? Well, maybe "Ultimate Reality" has WAY different "values" (if it can be said to have values at all!) than our culture does. Look at Nature - predatory behavior is REWARDED in Nature, among animals. So why not among humans? We're a part of Nature, too. (And what is bullying, theft, ect. but PREDATORY behavior after all?)

B-man

wrote on Apr 5^th, 2006 at 10:51am:

:) isnt life great !!

nope  >:(

My beloved playstation2 has crossed-over

another £100 is needed

I'm not saying I'm a bad person if I think about it objectively. I have been mistreaten and I have mistreated, but not much at all, maybe not more than normal person (ordinary people aren't Jesuses, you know). Still enough for feeling bad for things that I have done. It feels like hell, and I hope I can forgive myself, if not in this life, then in another.

I can’t understand why people in this forum make simple things so complex. Reincarnation is a natural process where we have the chance to face your imperfections in an appropriated environment and make the exercise to adjust it. It will be made as many times as it’s needed till we reach the maximum evolutionary level that such environment can provide us. Then we can appreciate the joy of not being more under those fears and other bad feelings that made our lives so dark. Nothing more than this.

I know some times I’m too direct but believe me things are simpler than you think they are.

Kardec,

Thanks for the input.  Any topic can be boiled down simplistically or made complex.  However, reincarnation, while assumed is a complex issue.  I currently am Matthew.  My memories, fears and anxieties along with strengths are based on my earth/life experiences.  If there are 342 past life experiences loaded on top of this current one, I'm certainly not aware of it on any conscious level.  My identity, my soul is inextricably linked with this earth life right now, in the present time.  If you tell me that as a carpenter 100 years ago I built a cathedral, or committed a heinous crime, I would have no memory of it - truly.  If you then say, "ah but it is woven into your present karma, and part of why you are here," I would say - you can't have it both ways.

You see if our memories help define us, and in reincarnation you wipe memories clean, then you can only act on your current life, good decisions or bad.  Unless you go to a past life regression therapist such as Dave.  Few people do that.  

We live in the present with our lives, social situations and spirit interacting with others.  If we are here to "get it right," then that is what is important, not the idea of previous incarnations.  Other new age beliefs and religions feel we only go around once, and then may evolve in the spirit realms.  Some believe that there is no way to "get it right," or "get it wrong," that we are only here to experience and be alive.

So reincarnation can be a more complex issue than you give credit.  Before I  start analyzing my past life mistakes, I hope to make more sense out of my present and live as good a life in my present as I can.

Matthew

Kardec:

Because it is a part of our life plan to challenge you by egging you on. Just kidding. ;)


wrote on Apr 6^th, 2006 at 8:49am:

I can’t understand why people in this forum make simple things so complex. Reincarnation is a natural process where we have the chance to face your imperfections in an appropriated environment and make the exercise to adjust it. It will be made as many times as it’s needed till we reach the maximum evolutionary level that such environment can provide us. Then we can appreciate the joy of not being more under those fears and other bad feelings that made our lives so dark. Nothing more than this. I know some times I’m too direct but believe me things are simpler than you think they are.

Hi I was told by this medium that you dont have to reincarnate ever if you dont want to .You can just stay in the spirit world .Its your own choice. God bless juditha.

No sorry Juditha, it don't work like that. most mediums don't come from the all knowing level they report to.

If you dont get it right you have to come back, thats all there is to say, sorry!

I'm interested to know that how do you (and others who have answered) know?

One way of knowing is to remember that Bruce said various groupings of believers in the afterlife share their own beliefs. So one group may believe it takes 3 weeks to reincarnate, another says never, and many groups believe something in between.---  It's all OK.

If you don't know which group you want to be associated with, you could read some of the leading texts on major religions and spiritual leaders and see which ones you feel most in tune with, sympatico to, spiritualized by. Then their beliefs on many more things than just reincarnation would give you more to have in common with them.

I believe I know at least 2 souls who can't wait to get started on new projects/ lives, so they've set up lives that are short and to the point, and then within a few weeks are back to start another one. In my lifetime they've both had 3 lives. Funny thing is while here they profess a conservative religion that doesn't even believe in reincarnation. It's all OK.

What sounds good to you, slslsl?

Jambo wrote:
nope
My beloved playstation2 has crossed-over
another £100 is needed


;D the ups and downs of life!!  its called the 2.5 day moon cycle in each zodiac sign.

one day is great, the next down is not, the remaining half day is reflection on the good and not so good.  Like the tide in the oceans .. it goes out and then comes in.

i know this doesnt help the crossing over (!) of your PS2 .. maybe when the tide is in you can demand the guarantee on the thing!

Recoverer said:   "It is as if each self that incarnates is a composite of past incarnations that continue to exist as each new incarnation takes place. "
Where could we get more information on this concept? Does it come from any ancient tradition?
Thank you, bets

Betson:

NDE number 724 of the below explains reincarnation this way.

http://www.nderf.org/archives_2nd_half_2005.htm

It is implied that Robert Monroe found out the same thing in his third book, when he met his previous incarnations. Or maybe I spinned this wrong.

I asked my guidance, waited for a word, and the lyrics "I'm Henry the V111 I am" (an old rock song by Herman's hermits) started running through my mind. The implication being, that a different parcel of consciousness existed in each Henry. The same is true when it comes to related incarnational selves.

Also, while meditating with the same question in mind, I was shown some ants feeding on green droplets.
Interpretation:
Ant colonies have just one queen. Once the queen dies, the colony comes to an end, and it is up to a new queen to start an entirely new colony. Therefore, each ant has just once source, perhaps a disc/over soul. Each ant lives just one lifetime, and each lifetime works to accomplish the mission of the whole. An ant colony represents one spirit. The drops of green mean they feed on love, the heart chakra is green.

Ancient sources? I don't know. Is there any ancient source that speaks about reincarnation in detail?

I'm planning to not think about it anymore, because my mind just goes back and forth between different perspectives, and never gets anywhere. I'll find out when it's my time to find out.









wrote on Apr 10^th, 2006 at 11:23am:

Recoverer said:   "It is as if each self that incarnates is a composite of past incarnations that continue to exist as each new incarnation takes place. " Where could we get more information on this concept? Does it come from any ancient tradition? Thank you, bets

Recoverer, I think there could be something to that level of thought, as I have seen many incarnations of myself through the astral ,I think where the twist comes in is to do with karma, the old energy out energy return thing'y,I feel due to this law if there are Dept's held within your soul meaning you put the energy out so this energy will be returned then it would be your part of the higher self that would have to return. I hope this makes since these thing can be difficult to explain.

Thank you, recoverer,
I'm ordering the book recommended there A HIGHER GOOD.  appreciate your help.
bets

Your'e welcome. I might order it too.


wrote on Apr 11^th, 2006 at 9:38am:

Thank you, recoverer, I'm ordering the book recommended there A HIGHER GOOD.  appreciate your help. bets

LightR:

Thank you for sharing this. As far as I know I've never seen my previous incarnations. I have experienced myself as other people for moments, without knowing why. And sometimes while meditating I'll see and hear things, for example people having conversations, and I don't know why.


wrote on Apr 11^th, 2006 at 1:33am:

Recoverer, I think there could be something to that level of thought, as I have seen many incarnations of myself through the astral ,I think where the twist comes in is to do with karma, the old energy out energy return thing'y,I feel due to this law if there are Dept's held within your soul meaning you put the energy out so this energy will be returned then it would be your part of the higher self that would have to return. I hope this makes since these thing can be difficult to explain.