Hiya everyone,

I don't know how to start to explain this so I will just keep in simple and go straight into it.

Tonight (its 12:30am as I write this) I was just trying to get to sleep, felt really tired but couldn't drift off till about 1/2 an hour ago i guess when it all began.

I found myself experiencing a spontaneous OBE, I can't remember the first one, but all in all I must have had about 10 in quick succession all varying in length from 30 seconds to 2-3minutes.

I don't believe in good and evil, I have never had a problem before, maybe this isn't and just me making it up in my head? Ill share some on the OBE's i can remember.

I was in a lobby of a posh hotel, everywhere was good and everyone was walking aound in expensived dress, I saw one man to my left walkin away and there were two women in front of me and one on the main stairs. Thinking back it seemed like a set up? They all knew I was meant to be there watching, all playing their parts. I came out shortly.

The next one i was sitting down, I was in like a room full of people. They were all looking, facing towards my left so its like I'm sitting at the side of them looking at them. Each person had their own desks and it had a classroom feel. There was a older women standing up at the back. one girl from a desk walked and went through a door beside me which I didn't see but knew was there. For some reason I had to follow her, there was something in this room but I couldn't really move (which seemed natural at the time) and noticed myself staring at the older women at the back on the room not really thinking but trying to understand. Suddenly she turned her head and looked at me which shocked me (once again really quick, she knew I was there, but it seemed these people at the desks had no idea and it was just her in on me.) She gave me a wink then crawled under one of the desks through to where I was, then i was floating across to the door and I could see was her walking beside me looking ahead, the scene fades out.

I can't remember this one visually but music was blaring full out of my stereo, I came out and none was like expected.

Just wanted to add a quick note in here, after each little experience when I tried to come round or did I was paralysed, it took a lot of effort to make a part of my body move to get out. All the time while doing this I was trying to get dragged back into whatever was going on, the picture would start changing, losing focus, more sounds, voices would come in. I kept resisting and made it out each time.

Also like to mention everytime I went out, except for maybe a couple of times I would float up really far, quite fast and always feet first, I did enjoy this feeling.

Another one was I was lying in bed and heard my mum on the phone really loudly (like she was just outside me bedroom door) talking to my auntie. I can't remember what the conversion was.

I relised I could keep going in and out as much as I wanted here, i would return but never totally wake up so in a few seconds after i thought about what just happened i would feel a energy in the whole of my body come flooding in, also a very sligh state of being paralysed before I would be out.

I've got two more that I can remember and would like to share, probly the weirdest to me of the bunch so sorry for going on but wan't to get all I can down.

I relised like i said before i could keep going out so set my intention to meet my Grandad. I floated again but this time I was wrapped in my duvey. made me feel like I was a baby wrapped up and could only see the picture coming into view. It was like i was in space, that was the kinda background, and there was a big floating object just up there. It was a tunnel with like a circle platform on top. I floated through the tunnel, straighted up and landed on the circle platform. There was a guy there, not my grandad. He started talking to me, boasting about something, he was full of confidence and had a constant grin on him. I forgot what he said but as I left he called me Eric.

My last one was I came out and was lying in my bed like I was in physical. My TV was suddenly at the end of my bed and on. Watching the programme in was a chat host on there, (thinking back I would 80% say it was the guy who was meant to be my grandad. I asked whether I could communicate through the TV to my grandad (if he could appear on it) as I didn't want to travel anywhere. The image flickered but then suddenly 20 fists were flying out of me pretending to hit the TV. Ok i'll try to explain! I'm laying there and all i can see is a TV and it was like the matrix i guess where they punch really fast and you see about 5 firsts going.

Well this was non stop constantly could not stop it 20 fists flying pretending to hit the screen at such a speed they were a blur. I couldn't stop but tried to change what they did successfully. At one point I tired to get them to do this towards my face to see what it was like. Once again it changed and 20 fists or blurred were blocking out my vision! Then it was like a tunnel formed in the middle of the firsts (as they were still going) and bats flew out...

At this point I came out but was paralysed for about 2 minutes I would say. This time the pull to go back into this world was the strongest it was ever, it was chaotic and confusing as everything was going on, music, pictures, and there was also someone whispering prehaps, but sounded like hissing at me. In my mind I shouted stop a few times and very nearly shouted stop physically but decided against that idea.

What the hell is all that? It seemed very sinister to me and my feelings/impressions of it all were more bad than good. Don't get me wrong, it wasn't so much what was going on but the atmosphere, everything made it a strange place I din't really want to stay in.

I am under no influence of anything so this cannot explain anything. The only thing different is a bit of sleep deprivation from last night. But i slept during two of me breaks today at work and also for a hour and a half at home so nothing I haven't done before as those of you who know me know i find it hard to get to sleep sometimes and end up staying the whole night!

this has just confused me and worried my slightly what is going on? I hate to ask as I don't believe but could anything negative, something that wants to play with me be hanging around me? Also the struggles at the end were bad, after the last one i woke up i nearly just dropped there again alseep, it felt like I hadn't been asleep for weeks. I managed to sit at the side of my bed for a few minutes and my energy came back.

This is just really strange and wondering what your views are on this an if you have heard of anything like this before?

I'd really appreciate anything said, even just ideas and once again sorry for dragging on a bit, just wanted to put down everything i remember so i can remember it and you can see the full picture.

Cheers,

Ryan

Hi Ryan-

Welcome to the world of psychic intuitives. The best interpreter of your various visions is, ultimately, you. Now that you've written them down, give it a couple or three days and then go back and see what you get.

Good and evil are fruits of the Tree that gets one kicked out of the Garden. Some things work, some don't.  

d

Hi Ryan http://images.bravenet.com/common/images/smilies/wave2.gif

gosh I'm glad you had more obes; I've been wondering and wondering when you'd post one again! this must be the first one that left u with negative feelings? from reading them all I do see some positive feelings however. I am just offering some off the top of my head thoughts to you so see if anything helps to sort it all out, then I'll tell u about my silly obe a day or so ago..it was funny.

u said:  must have had about 10 in quick succession.
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You seem to be practicing entering and exiting procedure with your astral body. from this thought I would say it won't be long before you establish being able to "stay out longer periods of time.
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u said: I don't believe in good and evil
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I don't either Ryan. I'd say continue with your beliefs in this, as a belief in evil has a way of outpicturing in those areas..so I'd say u are doing just fine.
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U said: They all knew I was meant to be there watching, all playing their parts.
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this is similar to the sort of scenes I encounter as well Ryan, and goes along with my Belief system that physical life is a movie and we all play our parts. the people we meet out there are most of time someone we know, either here or there. for example u and I have met in obe. that is because I think about u sometimes, and u think about me and so we are connected by our thoughts. and the same with u and Vicky. all those desks you saw reminds me of board members talking to each other, don't u think so? I'll bet it was Vicky crawling under her desk to you, sounds like something she would do!
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u said: when I tried to come round or did I was paralysed
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I have a theory with the paralization a common thing. when the astral is ajar from the physical, the command to move a part of the body is like a signal that gets sent to the brain, when the astral is slightly ajar from the body, this signal is not being relayed to the brain..so don't worry about it!
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U said: like she was just outside me bedroom door) talking to my auntie.
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this I believe is psychic overlay on the atmosphere of a previous phone call your mom made recently, which may have left emotional residue on the area it took place, I'm thinking right outside your bedroom door perhaps.
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U said: I asked whether I could communicate through the TV
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some of us believe, me too, spirit uses TV monitors to see other lives, situations, game plans, and these are in use on the other side. In a way, the human mind is a receptor picking up signals, so this doesn't surprise me in the least that your mind out there is looking for shortcuts, any way at all to make contact with your grandfather, the easiest way you can think of. I wouldn't know if the host of the show was in the running to be your grandfather. possibly.
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U said: 20 fists flying pretending to hit the screen
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hee. this is a little funny to me Ryan. It shows you really want to "bust through". u are thinking that the TV should deliver what you want perhaps. maybe a little patience is what u need, or maybe busting through might work.
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U said: It seemed very sinister to me and my feelings/impressions of it all were more bad than good.
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it's almost like you plugged into a grid thing whereby everything in your neighborhood that's going on, your picking up bits and pieces of, and naturally, not all of it is pleasant. if you didn't want to be there, I'd say it's ok to just move to a more congenial atmosphere but its up to you to imagine where that might be.
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U said: something that wants to play with me be hanging around me?
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like I said, you don't have to stay where it's uncomfortable. I've walked away from aspiring playmates out there many times. nothing can hurt you is the idea to get.
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U said: i find it hard to get to sleep sometimes and end up staying the whole night!
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I'm not going to tell you to get your rest because you'll do what u want anyway, lol, but one time I stayed up all night and I started hearing my neighbor talking across the street and the bugger was calling out my name. (turned out he wanted to date me, but he lost his chance, long story) so thats what I mean about hearing things we normally don't hear, especially when the body is deprived of rest, all your blinders are down. take care of yourself please.
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now for my little obe which usually consists of guides talking to me about the chapters in my book, seems like they all have something to say. the other night one said my personality was a female Dennis Quaid. now I'm really curious to watch Dennis...ha ha! why can't I be like Meryl Streep? whaaa!!! just kidding, it was really funny. thought I'd share.

good to hear from you again, as usual I have complete faith in Chilipepperflea to pull off the impossible. love ya, alysia

Hi laffingrain

i enjoyed your reply to Ryan ... Chilipepperflea  :)
he certainly has the Gift as i can read you do too!

Dont you believe in good or evil?  Do you think im going on too much about it?

Appreciate your reply
Caryn

Hey everyone! Thanx for the replies!

Also like top say a special thankyou to you Alysia! You always have time to give me a full report and I love them, you have helped me so much from when i first stumbled on here, we must meet again!

Lol i liked the OBE! Reminded me also of a funny one I had at work of all places. I went to sleep and found myself OBE again. Coming out i found my awareness in pitch black, and I heard my thoughts like I was saying them in this awareness! It kinda went "Wow I must still be at work! Ok this is coming out loud can they hear me?" The second part there I thought but it came out in speech again so i was getting worried if I was actually speaking! Anyway I came round and must of looked at everyone strangly but they were all normal so guess I was ok that time!

Today I had a more positive view on it, I guess maybe being tired last night and just how the whole thing played out seemed weird, guess I assumed that was something bad just because I don't understand. I guess the cool thing is at the moment I am finding it hard to conciously project again and then every noun again its like I can just keep going in and out all night if I want too lol!

I agree with the longer periods of time thing, but I have previously been out for ages, only a couple of times. One time I was trying to make contact with the physical from the non-physical like I have read with Bruce. I decided to go to my Mum as she knows my interests, if only vaguely in this area. I felt unstable though so opted to walk to her workplace rather than fly! Anyway her work is a good 10 minutes away and I must of been there for about 10 minutes so was happy with that. I really agree though because recently my OBE's seem to fade after a couple of minutes so if this is what my oversoul?? is doing to help me train bring it on! and thankyou oversoul ;D

That was interesting when you said it could of been Vicky, I can't remember a picture and didn't recognize her but I couldn't see two well, just remeber this women turning her head and two eyes staring back, like shock, so maybe she was shocked to finally meet? And yes climbing under the table sounds like Vicky lol!

That paralysing is weird, I have never experienced that before and found the only body part I could move this time was my hand so remembered that each time. It was weird, you actually can't move and have to focus on one body part, a hand is easier i guess to move that like a leg so thats probly why I went with that and make it move and suddenly you must align. Cheers for the explanation.

And I never thought about energy residue lying around ready to pick up on, see you helping me all the time! Next time I will put some paper and a pen beside my bed so I can write the conversation and ask my Mum whether it happened. That would blow me away if it did!

I think paitence as thats my downfall quite alot lol. It was like watching a movie though, thinking back it was pretty amazing seeing that. I always have weird experiences compared to what i read from other people, guess I'm just a unknown sucker for them lol.

I like the grid thing, next time i find myself in this place again I think i might stay and instead of focusing on the feeling, focus on what this energy is and see what I can do to help If i can?

You said about staying up, I don't understand it because I've experienced kind of the same thing. Its like more connected but your not. I seem to feel more energy out there but assume I'm just tired. Do you know why this is?

Well thanks so much for the replies and sorry to chuck a load of questions back of you, I feel like a sponge at the moment! I really hope I can learn to control when I go out because would love to for PE's that we do but It never happens but Im using the phasing technique you taugh me Alysia! So hopefully will make it next time.

Hey Caryn! Have you every been OBE? Its not a gift though, from what I've learnt anyone can do inlcuding me, ask me a couple of years back about this and I wouldn't believe ya! Took me a while to learn but I kept giving up, one day I turned round and said right, I know this is out there and Im coming to experience whether you like it or not and since then I have thankfully been able to experience quite a bit.

Cheers

Ryan

Hi everyone!

Ryan, thanks so much for posting one of your OBE's again!  I have been longing for these kinds of threads again.  


Yes, Alysia is fantastic at breaking down others experiences and giving wonderful and insightful feedback.  

Ryan if that was me in the OBE, I don't have any memory of it.  But you know what?  You and I have had a couple great emails lately and then you sent me a new photo of you which I loved.  So I have really wanted to connect with you again through OBE, and have really, very intensely set intention to connect.  This was on Wednesday night when I went to bed.  

Plus, I have been thinking a lot about your OBE where you did find me at work, remember that one?  I gave it a lot of thought so that I could remind myself that you do have quite a gift and so we both know that this kind of connection, and OBE in general, is real.  So this helped me solidify my strong desire and intent to meet you out there.  

And my final thoughts on all this was that I really want for you to realize your talents and realize your potential.  To me, you are just at the beginning of what you will be learning and accomplishing.  For you, you must feel like saying "after all this time, why isn't more  happening?" but you know what?  You will get more happening, but it will be a step by step learning process so don't lose your enthusiam!  I know that you will be experiencing amazing things, and then you will be teaching this to others.  I have always felt that about you and I still really do feel this way.

So if it was me in your OBE, I'm glad I was there!  I just wish I had memory of it.  My intent was extremely strong, so I will try and muster it up again and see if we can pull this off again!

:D

Alysia,
You and your guides do have a sense of humor!  

Love,
Vicky

Hi Ryan  :)

Yes, training does come into it as well! We are never to young or old to learn anything  :)

Focus is good to concentrate your energies together to go where you would like to go.
Spiritual excercises are important in this regard.

An excercise, that i think is the basis of all the exercises, as it strengthens the Soul within the Spirit is:

Build an moving picture image in your mind.  It does not matter what the picture is; the picture is not important; the importance is the building of the picture.

The building of a picture is based on Feeling.

It is no good to look at a picture and say this is my picture.  This is not the picture you require.

Your picture is built from the feeling of your emotions.  This picture might take a while to build; it will not be an instantaneous picture; it will evolve with you on a daily basis as your feelings evolve and change according to what you feel, experience, hear, smell, taste and sense.  

Although our feelings should be more or less consistent without mood swings etc; our feelings are subjective and we should not be ruled by them.
Except for the Love of Christ ... lol

In your picture it is good to have symbolism for example;  

An Tree (might) represent Life to you.

You see the tree is an Oak tree, picture the tree. You liken the Oak tree to your wisdom. Feel the wood of the trunk it represent your scars and the dents you have experienced in your life, feel the solidness and the different textures of the wood.

The Oak tree is full of green leaves. See the leaves, feel the leaves.
The leaves represent rebirth to you. Feel the rebirth of nature, liken it to the rebirth of your day or your spiritual rebirth or the rebirth of an old feeling you once had.

See the acorns in the tree.  They represent your soul protected by the spirit.

You see the roots of the tree, this represents the stableness of your life. Feel how deep the roots go down into the earth, liken this to your thinking.

The leaves on the tree are blowing in the wind.  Feel the wind, feel the leaves and branches swaying, liken this to when you are feeling insecure.

A butterfly lands on the leaf and is not blown off although it is so fragile and the wind is so strong, liken this to a friend.

A man comes and cuts a branch from the tree.  Feel the pain and hurt.  See the empty space.  Feel the sorrow of the tree.

See the branch grow again, feel the joy of rebirth. Liken the new branch to a new chapter in your life.

Feel the Sun shining on the tree. Feel the warmth liken this to your love.  Feel the rain, liken this to your tears.  See how the rain makes the tree grow.

:)

Ryan, the symbolism of the Tree is the symbolism of your Life.  Can you see how a moving picture image is built up based on your life experiences and feelings?

Any picture build may be used, the Tree is a good one to use.  And you can see how different it is from just looking at a picture, this picture of yours is You.  As said, it does not matter what the picture is build up upon - the tree does not overtake you, the tree is not the focal point. Your empathy with the tree is.

The focal point is the symbolisation of what is happening in your life each day.  The picture grows and changes with you.  

This exercise is very good for the soul; it is letting the soul express itself and making it become strong in this expression. This picture build is allowing the soul to come to the front of the normal cognective brain processes.

You might have already your picture that you are building before even reading this.

And although not directly related to your experiences of OBE's .. it is an start ...

This trains the spirit to enter higher worlds as its making it strong.  This is the training of this exercise.

I'll stop here and hope that i've explained it okay and i look forward to telling me what you think.

The exercise does go further but this picture building is the basis of going further and may take a while before the soul is at the front.

thanks for the opportunity Ryan

:) Well my OBE's .. lol ... gosh .. another time  ;)

Love.

wrote on Mar 31^st, 2006 at 12:31pm:

Hi laffingrain i enjoyed your reply to Ryan ... Chilipepperflea  :) he certainly has the Gift as i can read you do too! Dont you believe in good or evil?  Do you think im going on too much about it? Appreciate your reply Caryn

Caryn hello! I was all set to call u Auggie! this has turned out a very interesting thread for me and I see Vicky wants to talk about obes too, so neat. Chilipepper is already leading us somewhere as I feel the same as Vicky, that he will develop nicely over the years to help us in this field which is still so new.

u asked me about good and evil, and do I think u go on too much about it. no, I don't think u go on too much about it. I just see good/evil as a duality energy thing. it is a world of duality or opposites interacting to attain balance, the middle path is my theory to take to get to balanced observation.
a few years back I was walking a beach and my guides gave to me a perspective. they said "you are the seeker, the finder and the observor all rolled into one. so when the observor is born, the seeker and finder are balanced in energy and are subservient to the observor. the observor is like higher self which has no emotional reaction to good and evil, but chooses it's action according to personal values or beliefs.
I just knew if I could understand what they were saying to me that I could learn to think outside the box of my own little world so I was very happy to start doing it.
I was a reactionary emotional person, and took every thing in a personal way, so this was good to know that I didn't have to do this. the way they talk to me lol, its like I'm in kindergarten; thank god they have a sense of humor! good and evil can translate then to a give and take situation, or a selfish versus unselfish interplay of energy. of ego. dualing is either an art, or a fight for supremacy; but what is on top of the mountain now, inevitabley will fall, as the idea of dualing is to come to the balanced state of win win.
some of our most evil people are reborn as angels in other words.
did U read Embraced by the Light? ha ha! the guy got fried by electricity (the light) he had been most evil and was suddenly reborn to write books and teach us all that we do not die and that there is something which forgives and loves us tirelessly like a law.

I read your vision post just now Caryn and I must say u did put me into a meditative state and I realize how important it is to see something, as a picture in the mind. lately, I've been drawing cartoons of my life on the puter to go into my book and the very act has changed me inside, and I know in respects to going obe everything u said is precisely right on, to go to higher levels when obe-ing is to conceive it is possible through picturing it.
Ryan, I hope you read Caryn's post, I think it answers a few of your questions better than I. I do think you are getting better and better at obes, but it's kind of scarey to flip out at work? as long as u put a zipper on your lip it's ok? ha ha!
Vickie, I still think it was you crawling under the desk to Ryan as the symbol of crawling is to "go under". into the subconscious. since u are I know a playful gal like me, you do this playfully, however, Ryan is too aware. he sees you coming for a visit, so if u are going to sneak up on him and give him a surprise, (I love surprising people) you are going to have to study him some more. lol. you are like a little kitty cat sneaking up. it is always play time out there, and I think we tend to take our obes very seriously in some cases and we don't need to view it this way, but we can see it as a coming out party. back to my drawing board. I can't wait to share my cartoons with you all!

http://images.bravenet.com/common/images/smilies/grouphug.gif

Caryn,

Your visualization technique is very creative and sounds like a great way to relax before doing any kind of spiritual work.  I will definitely have to try it.  I really like the imagery.  I know for myself that this type of mental relaxation is very helpful and something I need to remember to do more often!

:)

I agree it the images seems mind expanding Vicky ;D

  ARE SLEEP-INDUCED OBES MORE THAN MERE
   LUCID DREAMS?

Chilipepperflea, I think you are confusing lucid dreams about OBEs with genuiine OBEs.   I myself have experienced a few OBE dreams.  During the dreams and shortly after awakening, I was absolutely sure that I had just experienced a genuine OBE.  I had floated near the ceiling and gazed down at my sleeping body.  I had argued with a dream character that I was back in bed and that she was a mere figment of my imagination.  She seemed totally independent of my will and acted horrified by my claim.   Some of these dreams engaged my senses just as vividly as waking life.   But upon later reflection, I realized that these were just dreams.  For some of these dreams, this realization seemed more immediately apparent than for others.  For example, during my argument with a "dream lady" about his illusory status, I was ostensibly in Boston at high noon when in fact I was sleeping in Western New York in the small hours of the morning.  

The other night, I had another OBE dream similar to yours.  I floated around what seemed like a college campus and initially seemed to wow the "students" with my astral talents.   In this dream, I recalled my earlier dreams of astral flight and consoled myself with the thought that this time I was really flying in an OBE.   Upon awakening, I was amused to realize that it was just another lucid dream--this time reflecting on my earlier lucid dreams!

The incoherence and meaninglessness of your OBE dreams seems to weigh decisively against their genuineness.  Your reports remind me of some bogus OBEs described on the "Astralpulse" website.  One astral explorer claimed to enter the fictional worlds of writers through OBEs.  He even claimed to discover plot lines of works in progress that the author-acquaintance had not yet divulged.  This claim prompted me to ask myself: "If this is possible, then why not assume that all OBEs are just variants of lucid dreams spiced up by the ESP triggered by psi-conducive states?"  In this respect, New Agers are trapped in a dilemma.  If they insist that these fictional journeys were really OBEs, then they are unwittingly refuting the genuineness of their unverified astral contacts with loved ones.   The reasonable inference is that fact and fiction cannot be distinguished without unmistakable verifications.   On the other hand, if they rightly reject the authenticity of these fictional OBE-like experiences, they are in effect conceding how easy it is to be fooled and thus calling their OBEs into question on that score as well.

Additional grounds for skepticism are also provided by lab research on lucid dreams.  Keith Harary. a lab-tested OBE adept, alleges that, during an OBE, he floated above his body and noticed a bedroom candle still burning.  He put his "face" close to the candle and blew it out.  Upon awakening, he noticed that the candle had completely burned down.  He concluded that his OBE efforts had blown out a non-physical candle.  Stephen LaBerge, an expert on lucid dream research, rightly counters that the illusion of blowing out a physical candle shows that Harary was merely having a lucid dream.  LaBerge has had some OBE lucid dreams and dismisses sleep-induced OBEs as misunderstood lucid dreams.

Sleep-induced partnered exploration of the astral can be challenged in the same way.  Keith Harary had previously experienced the well-attested phenomenon of shared dreams.  Harary's co-dreamer later confirmed that the context of their shared dream was the same.  If such shared dreams do not qualify as OBEs, then the overlapping experiences claimed for partnered astral exploration may not demonstrate genuine exploration of astral dimensions.  

Even telepathic hits durng partnered exploration may have no probative value in demonstrating the reality of such dimensions.  Dream telepathy has been demonstrated in research conducted at the Maimonides Hospital in Brooklyn.  When the subjects were in REM sleep, someone in another room focused on an art reproduction and tried telepathically to transmit an image of the painting to the sleeper.  The sleeper was awakened for dream reports after each REM period.  Judges were later able to impressively match dream reports with the pictures projected during those dreams.  

LaBerge expresses 2 misgivings about claims that shared dreams constitute genuine astral travel:
(1) Closer analysis sometimes proves that these co-dreamers share identical dream plots, but differ significantly in their recollection of minor details.  This point intrigues me.  In reading about the partnered explorations in "Curiosity's Father", I was more impressed by the differences than the similarities.  (2) It has never been proven that these shared dreams were experienced at the same time during REM sleep.   If each co-dreamer experienced the "same" dream plot at different times, then the similarities should probably be ascribed to ESP rather than to an OBE.

Of course, Bruce Moen's method applies to waking consciousness and not all OBEs are sleep-induced.  This means that the scientific study of trance states is more appropriate in analyzing his method than sleep.  And of course, as Bruce keeps reminding us, there is no substitute for direct experience.  Hopefully, I just need an upgraded quality of direct waking experience of the astral realm.  So Chilipepperflea, I hope your dream adventures can serve as a foundation for a fully verified waking OBE.  But please recognize how reluctant New Agers are to acknowledge the confounding problem of mere lucid dreams about OBEs.

Don

Chilipepperfiea,

I also wanted to address your rejection of the reality of evil and ask you why you would withhold the "evil" label from the following two cases.  On
Robert Bruce's "Astraldynamics" website, a poster ("Dark Knight") offers this chilling quote from Robert's book, "Practical Psychic Self Defense:"

"Here's an excerpt on page 136. Robert was doing an exorcism on a child and frustrated that he was unable to defeat it, he offered himself to the neg in replacement of the child thinking he'd get rid of it later. The neg took his offer, and Robert discovered he was in over his head. This is what happened next:"

"...Soon, I began losing control of my body, one part at a time. The first episode of this was while reading; my arm moved on its own, picked up a book, and tossed it on the floor. This shocked me, but I still felt okay. I did not sense anything evil or threatening in or around me. Incidents of brief loss of control increased over the next two weeks. It was not long before I knew I was in deep trouble."

"The episodes of loss of control culminated in an incident in which I lost control completely. I was on a roof-top car park, lifting my baby son from my car. As if a switch had been thrown, I suddenly lost control of my body. Powerless, I was marched like a puppet carrying my son to the edge, even while I was fighting my own muscles every step of the way. I suspected the Neg in me was going to make me throw my son off the roof and then have me jump."

"The strength of the mental pressure I felt was unbelievable. I did not hear voices or experience insane thoughts. This was not a compulsion. I was sane and rational. I just had no control of my body, as if suddenly struck with physical paralysis and someone else was now running my body. Thankfully, with a supreme act of will and some much-needed luck, I broke free of the puppet-like state at the last possible moment. But I no longer trusted myself after this event."

"A couple of days later, I woke up (I seemed to have been sleepwalking) and found myself in the nursery with a raised ax. I got rid of the ax. I found myself back there the next night with a carving knife. I tried everything I knew of to rid myself of this Neg, but whatever I did was not enough. I was faced with only two "logical" choices: I could turn myself into a mental hospital or commit suicide. Then, I came up with a third option: I could surrender to my higher self and let it lead me out of the darkness rapidly overtaking my life. I sensed this would be difficult and probably kill me in the process anyway, but I had nothing to lose and everything to gain. I could always kill myself later."

Dark Knight continues: "The rest details his fight with the neg out in the bush. Bruce left home for his family's safety and spoke candidly about how he thought he wouldn't be coming back alive."

Robert Bruce's horrorifying encounter with the demonic illustrates the danger of spiritual arrogance and presumption.   It took great humility for Robert to admit this life-threatening error.

In his classic book, "Hostage to the Devil, " Malachi Martin investigates a possession case in which an inexperienced priest/exorcist is struck dead at the very moment he arrives at the bedside of the possessed victim. A more experienced priest has to be called in to complete the exorcism.   Are you really reluctant to label this priest's astral murder and Robert Bruce's horrific possession as "evil"?
As you probably know, my own family has had some chillingly verified exorcism experiences.

Don

Ryan,

Would you mind going into more detail about the feeling of going out of body in this experience, or describing the feeling of your conscious awareness?  You know what a technical person I am.  Some here might find it educational.  You seem to have a real knack at being technical as well.  

With the OBE at work, was this while you were napping?

I also have a comment about the paralyzation...I wonder if you could try to remind yourself that feeling paralyzed is a physical feeling so as to not concentrate on your body...then just tell yourself that the astral body doesn't need to feel this and perhaps you can draw the focus away from this paralyzing feeling? I don't know as I have not experienced that feeling.  

I am either instantly separated, which can lead to temporary "amnesia", sort of like feeling "where was I just a few seconds ago?" or I actually do feel the separation which thereby produces the "dual consciousness" feeling of being in two places at once.

Caryn,

If you do have some OBE's to share, please do!  Either here or on a new thread.  I like to encourage these discussions because I find it so helpful and encouraging to those who want to learn more about it.  

I've shared a few of my own here a while back...I may just have to re-tell some of my own stories just to get the conversations going again.  Ryan happens to be the main reason I got back into OBE's after so many years!  Thanks Ryan! :)

His enthusiam talking about them got me hooked and I couldn't help but get back into studying them again.  That's the main booster for me, is the desire to have them and then also to be talking about them or reading about them...and the next thing I know is I'm having OBE's again.

Well, I guess I will have to start my own thread about this, as I don't want to be blabbering here on Ryan's thread about my own stuff.  Will try and get to that after work tomorrow perhaps.  

As always Ryan, thanks for sharing your experiences with us!  You never fail to feed my enthusiam as well!

Love,
Vicky
:D

Ryan said: I like the grid thing, next time i find myself in this place again I think i might stay and instead of focusing on the feeling, focus on what this energy is and see what I can do to help If i can?
_____

I think next time you are listening to the hiss, which may not be what u think it is, you'll find out what it is and why it sounds like that and why you felt uneasy. focus is a good word that you mention.
I can remember being out there and helped with guidance to be told to "focus." in on something and right away it was like I had a camera lens ability as I zoomed in to see something closer up. I you can bypass the interpretor part of the brain when you focus in on something. so next time someone is talking to you out there, keep in mind we don't usually recall words or sentences, but we can recall a few words or feelings by focusing on the other more intently and with lack of fear.
thats why I told you to get the idea of your own safety, although every adventure has its element of risk to undertake, there is something that loves us and takes care of us.  inside of you I notice you wanted to help. this intention will probably propel you into further adventures as its so unselfish of you. I've found your intentions is what creates your reality. love to you; will u be my son next life?
alysia ;D

Caryn, thank you so much for opening up to us. What you have written is very interesting and I would say that you have a specific life purpose of dealing with 'demons.' I haven't believed in demons because I've never experienced anything negative (that way) in any of my non-physical journeys and I hope I never do. ;-) I'm sure you have much to teach us and I look forward to hearing more, maybe your spiritual experiences.

Love, Mairlyn ;-)

Thank you for your kind reply and support Marilyn.
Yes, you right .. more of my spiritual experiences would be good.  :)

Hi there Caryn, thanks for your input, I enjoyed it very much.
very interesting. in regards to the darkness, it does flee from the light as it is threatened by light as the same as u walk into a room and flip on the light switch, then it cannot have a place to hide and is exposed.

in regards to this idea, I recently had a dream message which made me laugh. A guide was speaking, or my higher self it would be easier to understand, said “in my next life I shall write a book showing how the human being is merely alternating current. no, I don’t understand it, but still it sounds intriguing!

in regards to our use of the words evil and demon, there are connotations and misperceptions gathered around such words since time began and the words generate fear, and fear is what we need fear..fear itself. we are to leave fear to fear mongers. this my opinion. Discerning is important, but that is just another word also with meanings attached to it. Discerning is like a gift from god, and we still have not even defined what god is, so defining his gifts is another job. Yet if the light be in you, the Christ love, like I said the darkness flees, the path is made smooth by a belief in the good to prevail for all.

See no evil, see it not there, is for me something that works along side compassion, for evil is not a believable circumstance to me. I do see incredible selfishness here or there, and these I still would not be judging as evil ones, I would see these as needing the light. I don’t send love into what is dissolving as a non-entity in a darkened room when the light is turned on. I just wave goodbye..buts its all personal to each of us what we experience, and we place these personal meanings on everything, a meaning and interpretation entirely our own, and thats all we possess is our right to choose our thoughts and grasp our own helm in our choice to believe in good to prevail despite appearances of opposition to our wish to see good. All this is to say I admire Caryn for the guidance she does accept and her willingness to dissapate or transmute negative energy.
A simple thing ACIM imported to me is when things don't look so good, it would say, there were endless opportunities to gladden ourselves and we overlook these opportunities by seeing the cup half empty instead of half full. so I'm a simpleton, whatever!
cheers!
http://images.bravenet.com/common/images/smilies/3dglasses.gif

hi Alysia  :)

you are so right - light does get rid of the darkness;
it just somehow it seems that i need to see the darkness to learn further.  Happily i do not fear them at all; i laugh at them (adds a few seconds of attack but its worth it!) i do my work here, with them that is, and i accept this trustingly.

Thanks for your lovingly thoughts on this. That sounds interesting - your book to be written; alternating currents .. very nice ... complicated lol but nice ... and true! i think.

:)

ps - i think im going to change my picture; Orion does really look better bigger lol its a bit squashed up now - am i imaging it or does that look like a fetus ??!

Hey Caryn, I was just thinking I wished you had a better picture! are we connected or not? lol! I do like the colors though, but would like to see your face, so will imagine it..heres the way I imagine you..hold on, I'm looking in my grab bag...heres what spirit found for you: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/spiritvideo/Alysia/helm.jpg

I have been dreaming dreams in a way like you; I am interested in balancing energies through our justice system. it's like sticking a pin in a baloon, letting the air out, but its only in my subconscious mind so far. I believe that not all of our soul total incarnates, that we are also existent on other levels of being.

love, alysia

What a great experience Ryan. Your OBE is a adventure, and should bring motivation to those hoping to experience them. If you have anyomre please share along with anyone else.

Thanks Doug

Hey Vicky!

Sorry I haven't replied till now but trying to gether thoughts and think about how to explain. I guess I will just go with the flow as I usually do and see if it makes sense, if not let me know and I'll try to explain better.

Well I would say I experienced two states in this experience, depending on which experience i was in out of the lot. The state when I was in the lobby or going to "visit my grandad" was would I would call the classic OBE state in what I call the astral projection area. I had full concious awareness but my perception was only limited to what concerned me. So for example in the lobby I saw the stairs the people, the dresses, the faces, the walls but I didn't notice paintings because they wern't of interest. Ive noticed in my OBE's say i was walking around I would see a little way in front of me but not really see the horizon like you normally do in the waking state if this makes sense, not because its not there but because my focus is on I'm out of body and whats near me! Something I want to change, ever trying to get a perfect waking state out there.

Theres also that slight fuzzy conciousness feeling, not sure if that explains anything but hopefully your get that.

My experience in whole was weird, I had no concious physical seperation from the waking state, I found myself out there again. However when i was repeatly going out I didn't leave conciously either (as in feel vibrations). I did feel a new energy as soon as I closed my eyes, its very indescribale which helps but it was like just before that vibrational state i guess, a exciting bouncful energy in my whole body that almost made me feel weightless, next thing I knew I would be out again. There was also a pressure in my foot which I felt occasionally just before i shut my eyes and it was like energy built up really intenesly there for some reason and it was like what you have with pins and needles but without the pins and needles i guess.

My second state was when I was in my bed, this happened 3 times i think, one time at then end when I was finishing and had my struggle, one with the new TV at the end of my bed and me trying to contact my grandad with it and another one I'm not sure about. This one was probly the most perfect state I have experienced to the waking state. There was no fuzzyness and only a slight focus problem, more like tunnel vision the same as other OBE's but hardly noticable.

The paralysed feeling didn't freak me out except for the last one where it did a bit because everything was going on and i didn't feel comfatable but It was a very weird feeling! I don't know whether I was astral or physical though, It has always happened so far coming back into the body and I'm laying there and just cant move and feeling a weird tingling energy that doesnt tingle if that makes sense lol. So i need to overcome it to get back fully. Fromwhat ive read and done forcing a body part to move seems to do the trick.

Hope thats answered some of your questions! You will have to let me know.


Yeah I have never and a out of body experience awake, is this even possible?? as in a astral projection/real time state? I was napping in the break room my arms crossed on the table and me hunched over it head on my arms lol. One of them when I came back it was like my legs didn't, think i have said about it on here before. I felt my astral legs instead of my physical even though i felt my physical half and was back awake. They felt lighter than the rest of my body and were in a totally different position to my physical legs so that was a neat experience. As soon as i moved in was like they switched back instantly and I was back in.


I have never experienced that two places at once feeling yet. Do you see twice? or is it more of a feeling?

Ryan

I agree that there are some unfriendly spirits out there, but I don't understand how people determine how powerful they are.

Yeah, it sounds great to say that you overcame a really powerful demon, because it sounds much more impressive than saying you dealt with a ghost with an attitude problem.

But how in the heck do you determine if a negative spirit is powerful? If a spirit is able to take somebody over, it may be the person wasn't very strong, or had a lot of the same tendencies.

Take the kid the Exorcist was based on. Some claimed he was possessed by the devil, or a really bad demon. How did they know that? Couldn't the spirit who messed with him just be a negative spirit the kid unfortunately opened himself up to?

And another thing. When it comes to where negative spirits come from, there are divergent theories. Why the inconsistencies?

And yet another thing, where do negative spirits get their power from, if they've cut themselves off from God, love and light. It seems to me that they connect to people in the physical because they're hungry for energy.

And it doesn't matter what person so and so wrote in a book, because that is just one person. If you believe his viewpoints are more valid than others, this is simply because this person's ideas match up with your belief system.

Also, don't underestimate the power of the mind:
Step #1: A person hears about demons etc., and chooses to believe in them.
Step # 2: This information creates possible imaginary realities within a person's mind.
Step # 3: These imaginary realities manifest for a person, and the person believes they are possessed. Perhaps these beliefs will even attract the energy of a negative earth bound spirit.
Step # 4: An exorcist comes along and gets rid of a spirit that was never there, or a spirit that came along after a person first started imagining that they are possessed.

Why is an exorcist needed? Can't a person ask for divine help by his or herself?

Some people say that a person might not have enough faith to ask for help by his or herself. When a person asks for divine help, are positive forces going to sit there and say: "Well, gee, I don't know if this guy has enough faith to ask us for help?  What should we do? Should we flip a coin?"

Ryan said: Yeah I have never and a out of body experience awake, is this even possible??
_____

dual consciousness does occur Ryan, that's where you know where your body is sitting or lying, you are just aware that it's there where you left it. I could sense the general outline of the body as in an "up" position but all my attention, my thoughts and feelings were not located in the shell below me. its like theres two of you, unless you don't believe that your body is the real you. I think it's a rare thing to achieve, dual consciousness for the most part, but I think you can do it if u set your mind to it.
I've experienced the astral body turned in the opposite direction of the physical body too. lol. I rolled over in my sleep one time, getting ready for blast off right? instead I woke up and said to meself, wait a minute, didn't I just roll over, I KNOW I just rolled over and now I'm facing the other direction, so it was this other body.

love, alysia

wrote on Apr 4^th, 2006 at 6:19pm:

I agree that there are some unfriendly spirits out there, but I don't understand how people determine how powerful they are. _____ well, its not that simple to my opinion. we don't carry a measuring rod around in the spiritual area, its all like energy acting on energy. naturally if you ask a person or a spirit, say dude, how big is your bang? they are going to play into your game. _____ Yeah, it sounds great to say that you overcame a really powerful demon, because it sounds much more impressive than saying you dealt with a ghost with an attitude problem. ______ u gave me a laugh Albert because you are right, ghosts do have attitude. when meeting one make sure your attitude is just as much! ____ But how in the heck do you determine if a negative spirit is powerful? ____ u just asked that already. perhaps the question is not how powerful is the negative but how powerful is the positive? _____ If a spirit is able to take somebody over, it may be the person wasn't very strong, or had a lot of the same tendencies. _____ I heard some possessions are family rooted issues and happen by degree, anywhere from a drunk having an addiction to alcohol spirit making him drink more, to more serious cases of a spirit that refuses to go to the light without a lot of hallaballoe and holy water and all that theatrical stuff. ____ Take the kid the Exorcist was based on. Some claimed he was possessed by the devil, or a really bad demon. How did they know that? ____ what u see on TV is entertainment Albert, they make money on entertainment. you won't see the whole truth there, just a hint. we do enjoy a bit of sensationalism now and then, some of us like being terrified, especially the kids do. _____ Couldn't the spirit who messed with him just be a negative spirit the kid unfortunately opened himself up to? _____ precisely. _____ And another thing. When it comes to where negative spirits come from, there are divergent theories. Why the inconsistencies? _____ for the same reason you have so many religions and each one claiming to be right. _____ And yet another thing, where do negative spirits get their power from, if they've cut themselves off from God, love and light. It seems to me that they connect to people in the physical because they're hungry for energy. _____ maybe it's Christianity said this; the dark forces were trying to win souls for satan and they only had a short time to run amuck doing this. whatever. I'm not a Christian and don't believe in Satan. you can also consider the dark night of the soul. thats where you test yourself. you test your will and the dark forces are your own acceptance of your wretchedness. if you come up from this, you just won the test. theres plenty of spirit and plenty of physical folk who add their energy to negativity; but the darkness lives in us, as does the light. ______ And it doesn't matter what person so and so wrote in a book, because that is just one person. If you believe his viewpoints are more valid than others, this is simply because this person's ideas match up with your belief system. ____ right. don't follow anybody. ____ Also, don't underestimate the power of the mind: Step #1: A person hears about demons etc., and chooses to believe in them. Step # 2: This information creates possible imaginary realities within a person's mind. Step # 3: These imaginary realities manifest for a person, and the person believes they are possessed. Perhaps these beliefs will even attract the energy of a negative earth bound spirit. Step # 4: An exorcist comes along and gets rid of a spirit that was never there, or a spirit that came along after a person first started imagining that they are possessed. Why is an exorcist needed? Can't a person ask for divine help by his or herself? ______ They could ask but not believe in getting that help, so if they don't believe, an exorcist or a retriever could help them out. ____ Some people say that a person might not have enough faith to ask for help by his or herself. When a person asks for divine help, are positive forces going to sit there and say: "Well, gee, I don't know if this guy has enough faith to ask us for help?  What should we do? Should we flip a coin?"

______

I think help is always available and guides cannot interfere with free will, if the person is holding two beliefs which contradict each other, both are manifested and cancel each other out. if you come here and you've got a hard road to travel, the reward in the end is worth the struggle. people going through attachment have to get a fundamental sense of their own will to choose the light, to turn from the dark area by focusing towards the light, no matter if it takes a lifetime, aligning with the light means becoming powerful from surrendering to the light.

I like your post Albert.

There's a lot to reply to here, but first I'd like to say to Caryn,

I really find your posts interesting.  You seem to have a very open viewpoint on this subject.  I agree with you, that we will learn and experience what we are ready for.  I believe that we each experience our lessons in a way that we can accept and understand, and because of that we all have very different experiences.  So there aren't any wrong viewpoints, it is all a matter of perspective.  I'm glad you found that you were able to share your experiences here.
:)

Ryan,

I have had several experiences with dual consciousness.  I have also referred to it as split awareness.  When I have had it happen, I can feel myself split, and I experience it as if it is a physical sensation.  I am beginning to wonder if I only sense it that way because we are so accostomed to relating all experience to physical sensation.  We are so used to describing things in terms of the physical.

Anyway, when I have the dual consciousness, I have 100% completely equal awareness in two places simultaneously, and can think in both with each being aware of the other.  It sounds extremely complicated and impossible, but while it is happening it feels as natural as anything and it makes perfect sense.  It is only after the experience that it is difficult to fathom it.

I have had the split with one with part physical and the other out of body, and I have also had it with both parts being out of body, unaware of my physical self.  I have also had OBE's where I am watching myself out of body.  Very strange experiences indeed!
:D

I had another OBE last night, but I haven't completed my notes on it yet.  I will probably post it tomorrow when I have time, either on this thread or the other OBE thread.  Thanks for starting these for us Ryan!  We really needed to talk about this kind of stuff again.  

Remember when I first began talking personally with you?  It was because all you ever talked about was OBE's, and you had piqued my interest in them so much that I couldn't wait to get back into the subject.  Thanks for doing that for me.  I have truely learned a lot from knowing you Ryan.

Good stuff going on here guys.  I don't have time to respond to each of you, but I will I promise.  (My husband and I are in the middle of watching a movie we rented.  I'm only on here because we took an intermission so he could run to the store for some snacks).  

Love you guys,
Vicky

Recoverer,

You ask how we can know how powerful demons are.   I'd say the demon was very poweful that struck an inexperienced priest dead the moment he arrived at the bedside of the possessed person.   Malachi Martin investigates this exorcism and writes about it in  "Hostage to the Devil."   I'd also say the demon was extremely powerful that possessed Robert Bruce and a few times almost forced him against his will to murder his baby.

In the case of the young boy who inspired the movie "The Exorcist," there are a few incidents that demonstrate that demon's power: e. g. his ability to scratch bloody messages from Hell on the boy's skin, his ability to badly injure a young priest by using superhuman strength to rip a metal strand of the bedframe and stab the priest with it, his ability to teleport objects and use PK to move heavy furniture around the room,  and the dramatic way he was finally expelled.   There was a loud explosion heard in a church across the street and a large blue light flash as the demon vanished.

The other night on "Coast to Coast" an exorcist played recordings of demon voices speaking through a possessed young woman.  One voice used her vocal cords to give this message in a loud, male, chilling gutteral voice: "There is no God in here!"   At the same time, you hear objects being flung around the room and the terror of the lay exorcist asking for a priest to be summoned.  In other cases, it may be hard to tell whether you are dealing with a relatively powerless mischievous discarnate human or a potent malevolent demon.  So possession cases must be handled with care and entrusted to qualified clergy.

Don

I have been told that the signs of demonic possession are three:

               !. Physical strength far beyond what is
                  normal for the age, physique, and
                  development of the person being
                  examined.

                2. Knowledge of matters that the person
                   would have no way of knowing about
                   in the past, present, or future.

                 3. Sudden, fluent speech in  language,
                     perhaps known only to the exorcist,
                     generally of a chilling, threatening na-
                     ture.  

I agree with Don that this is best left to professionals.   After all, I would not attempt to
treat a leper as I would be a danger to him even
if I had the kindest of intentions.  I  have no
further advice than this.

Vikingsgal,

Yes, for example, I respect Robert Bruce.  But this New Ager got in way over his head when he invited a demon possessing a child to possess him instead.  He arrogantly assumed he could easily get rid of it later and that's how he got is serious trouble with his own possession.   Vikingsgal, your criteria are correct, but I'd like to illustrate your 2nd criterion  to show how demons can use clairvoyance to temporarily take charge of an exorcism:

2. " Knowledge of matters that the person would
  have no way of knowing about in the past,
  present, or future."

The exorcist team is often warned not to succumb to curiosity and engage the demon in casual chitchat.  Malachi Martin gives an example to illustrate this point.  A respected elderly priest arrived at the bedsde of the possessed with an less experienced team.  The moment they arrived, the demon blurted out, "Well, if it isn't Peter the Eater!"  The elderly exorcist blushed because this expression was a dirty nickname a girlfriend had given him during his misspent youth.   The curiosity of the rest of the team was immediately aroused and the demon had dangerously taken initial charge of the proceedings.   Fortunately, the demon  was eventually exorcised.  

There are New Agers who treat possessing entities as if they are misguided discarnate humans who need to be coaxed to continue their upward ascent.   They truly may do some souls some good.  But their practice is dangerous if they are dealing with a genuine demon bent on harming them and the victim of its possession.   The gift of discernment is needed to tell the difference.

Don

hello  :)

please note that i have removed my personal post on demons; it is for peace of mind.

Alysia - i love your choice of picture; chuckle  - there is resemblance (nice word resemble-balance)

Hi Vicky; Marilyn hope you well  :)

i dont think we should give demons too much credit - they not that powerful. They like cockroaches in the kitchen at night that scurry away when the light is turned on.


this picture is better dont you think!

Three things seem key about Robert Bruce's story. One, he invited the spirit to take him. Not a good thing to do. He "almost" killed his child, as oppossed to, did kill his child. I believe that all real strength comes from God. Did Robert Bruce rely on it right away.

Regarding the spirit from the exorcist, is physical strength or the ability to move objects around the same thing as spiritual strength? God created an entire universe, so where does real strength come from?

It seems like Robbie kind of opened the door for the spirit he dealt with. If he would've known better, he wouldn't of done so. Plus, from the start, did he rely on God's strength when it came to overcoming the spirit that possessed him? Just because a spirit says something negative about God, this doesn't mean they are the devil. It just means they don't know where love, wisdom, and all of reality come from.

wrote on Apr 5^th, 2006 at 9:43am:

hello  :) please note that i have removed my personal post on demons; it is for peace of mind. Alysia - i love your choice of picture; chuckle  - there is resemblance (nice word resemble-balance) Hi Vicky; Marilyn hope you well  :) i dont think we should give demons too much credit - they not that powerful. They like cockroaches in the kitchen at night that scurry away when the light is turned on. this picture is better dont you think!

why, the simple beauty of a sunflower Caryn! thank you and most cheerful feeling it gave me.

I love how you removed your post on demons as I found that removing one's attention to focus on something else is important in creating your own reality. life is simply too short to be spraying for cockroaches all the time. I think I'll move out of Roswell soon. chuckle.
http://images.bravenet.com/common/images/smilies/steeringwheel.gif

Thank you for the detailed responses Alysia.

wrote on Apr 4^th, 2006 at 5:51pm:

Yeah I have never and a out of body experience awake, is this even possible?? as in a astral projection/real time state?

In my opinion it is possible, but I am not technically sure.  It may be that you may really believe that you are completely awake, when in fact your body is starting into a very light sleep state.  I have read that you cannot go out of body with your eyes open because it is too much concentration on the physical which contradicts the concept of loosening your astral body from your physical body.  Not sure if I believe that either.

I remember going out of body in school as a kid and I always felt like my eyes were open from the start.  However, I may have been starting to doze off, thus having my eyes closed but being able to see through my closed eye lids and not being able to tell the difference.  

Its always best to believe anything is possible. It leaves the opportunity for the door to be opened.

it is best to believe in anything is possible. I call this cognitive thinking; to carefully consider all the possibilities and be ready for any of them to manifest that way. love, alysia