HI ALL.

             Just to mark the 11th anniversary of Robert Monroes passing



 happy spirit Birthday  R.A.M


MERLYN

Yes, Happy Spirit Birthday RAM. Perhaps I'll visit you tonight. ;-)

With Love,
Mairlyn ;-)

I had heard that no one has had contact with him in some time.  When I hear his voice on the Hemisync CD tapes, he sounds very much like and active presence to me.

Happy Birthday


M

Matthew, I've seen him a few times in the past few years. And Rosalind McKnight writes about her contact with him in her book Soul Journey.  An aspect of him is always availble for contact. ;-)

Love, Mairlyn ;-)

wrote on Mar 17^th, 2006 at 5:31pm:

I had heard that no one has had contact with him in some time.  When I hear his voice on the Hemisync CD tapes, he sounds very much like and active presence to me. Happy Birthday M

If Bruce doesn't mind me sharing this...I had asked him if he still has contact with him now and again, and he said yes.

And yet a few years ago, his own daughter, Laurie, the President of TMI, repudiated claims that RAM is still manifesting hiimself to astral explorers.  Laurie made this claim at Bruce's Virginia workshop!   It is hard to believe that RAM can be contacted by outsiders and not by insiders at TMI.  This is an old controversy, but I want newbies to be aware of it because it calls into question the astral abiities of some on this site to contact the dead.  

A  serious contradiction calls into question Bruce Moen's claims of ongoing contact with RAM.  During one of these alleged contacts,  Bruce claims to learn of his status as a parallel incarnation of RAM.  But in "Ultimate Journey," RAM contradicts this and claims to have only one parallel incarnation---"a female one."   So I think all claims to have contacted RAM in the past few years are bogus.

Don

Don,

This brings up a new age conundrum; that of division of spirit or essence.  Some, like M. Newton state that the same spirit or essence may be in several places at once - a dizzying concept.  I tend not to believe that a spirit may be incarnated on
earth in two bodies.  It seems far to distracting.  Afterall, if our memories are "wiped" as new agers claim so we are not distracted from past lives, why would we want to be distracted by simultaneous incarnations?

Matthew

Hi--
I heard that very very few souls on earth are capable of being in 2 places at once, maybe only 3--4 incarnating in the same time period. One was the RCatholic monk/activist Thomas Merton, but he only did it while he was alone. It takes alot of concentration at first. Then his soul came right back after Merton's death and did it as a sherpa guide, another vocation that gave him the necessary solitude.
Its a developmental step for those who seek to become Oversouls, a further step for Earth. But some prefer to develope their higher faculties in other spheres.
I heard Monroe is one soul who can do this, but it makes sense that if now he's in his new incarnation, his life events may be too distracting for him at times to answer to every contact.
So it's not either...or, it could be a matter of timing.
bets

When I think of the higher self like Bruce and RAM("disc", "I-There") then I cannot see any problem with several incarnations of the same higher self in the same physical timeframe.
When I get back fully to the nonphysical and don't rest somewhere in the astral but go right back to my home, I will not be this "I", this person I am here, this person will be one of many experiences of MeThere. I'm not proclaiming here that this is actually the case, but I personally like this idea and get very much used to it, and some experiences in meditation are pointing in this direction.
Spooky

It is very telling that New Agers respond to the clear contradiction I pointed out between Moen and Monroe by simply reaffirming his doctrine of parallel incarnations and ignoring the contradiction that helps descredit this claim.  Since the New Age Ghetto predictably chooses to ignore the absurdities of many of RAM's OBE claims, I shall again repost them for the newbies' benefit.  

I'm willing to concede that RAM may have had some genuine OBEs.  But in an experiment conducted by Charles Tart, RAM's gift did not bear up very well under close scrutiny.  "His [RAM's] continuing description of what our home looked like and what my wife and I were doing was not good at all; he `perceived' too many people in the room, he `perceived' me doing things I did not do, and his description of the room itself was quite vague."  [See Tart's Introduction to "Journeys Out of the Body."]

In  his college days, RAM gained acclaim for a play he wrote.  It is his creativity as a playwrite that is on display in 3 of his obviously delusory past life experiences during supposed OBEs:

(a) a prior incarnation as a cave man pilot of a mentally controlled aircraft that is forced to dodge the spears of primitive hostile natives (UJ 157): The combination of prehistoric and modern technological motifs exposes the delusion here.

(b) an incarnation as a "vibrationist" from a "probably" non-human race whose members "have and use the ability to manipulate matter to suit whatever need through mental vibrational energy (UJ 158f.)  Sure!

(c) a prior incarnation as a novice Christian priest invited by his fellow priests to rape " a frightened young girl" who is tied down and spread-eagled for a kind of spiritual test for RAM: RAM asks us to believe that the girl is a prior incarnation of his wife, Nancy (UJ 154-56).  As corrupt as some in holy orders sometimes are, no Catholic order would formally invite a novitiate to rape a young girl!

RAM offers an earlier version of this memory in "Far Journeys," 115-16.  The 2 versions contradict each other in enough absurd ways to discredit this whole past life memory.  In both versions, a young girl is tied down on a church altar, but RAM is dissuaded from performing the nasty ritual by the deep expression in her eyes.  In the earlier version, his assigment is to kill her with several stabbings from a sword.  Supposedly, these stabbings will cause her "exquisite ecstasy."  In the later version, he must simply rape her.  In the earlier version, RAM is already a priest and is well aware of the deadly ritual he must perform.  In the later version, he is only a novice and has no advance inkling about the nature of the ritual.  In the earlier version, a mob will stone him to death if he backs out of the ritual.  In the later version, the ritual is just a test.  The other priests would stop him if he proceeded.  The earlier version has a fairy tale ending: a bright white ray melts the sword and severs the ropes that bind the girl.  In the later version, the white light simply signals the end of the vision of RAM'S past life.  Need I say more?

Equally absurd is RAM's alleged OBE encounter with an alien who emerges from a flying saucer looking like comedian, W. C. Fields.  this alien confesses that his species has come to earth not to do DNA experiments, but to collect jokes (UJ 48-50).  

Don

Interesting in the way a simple spirit birthday wish has developed in this thread.  

About a year or so ago I was doing a focused meditation.  At the end of this I distinctly heard a voice in my head tell me that Bob was teaching a class on Distant Planetary Evolution and Climate Change.  I also had the distinct feeling that "Bob" was RAM.  

Based on my experience I do not find it necessary to limit the possibility that some aspect of our higher self splits or fragments portions of its energy to do whatever it chooses to do.  If there is no time on higher dimensional levels, then to me that means everything is taking place simultaneously on some plane of existence.  Quantum physics, string theory, etc. seems to indicate that simultaneous time does exist and if this is the case, then why is it so difficult for us to conceive of us having the ability to tap into other aspects of our existence?  Why would anyone think that it is impossible to have contacted someone on another plane of existence such as RAM?   Certainly some aspect of each of us is capable of this in a quantum sense.

Happy spirit birthday Bob!  And thank you for the many blessings you have given to our world.

Love and Light,
Kathy

Yes Kathy, that's the way I look a these things too.

And therefore, Don, it's just you read those books differently than others, you look at it as if it is a report of a witness in the courtyard, or like one read scientific measured objective physical reports. But RAMs books are about his experiences, and obviously he had them in altered states of awareness, in other worlds, alternate realities or maybe in his imagination (who knows what imagination really is?). So your critics in my view fail to hit a target. And even you don't know what things ever had happened or will happen in different times and different places and realities. And, regarding the New Age mentality, I don't say this is true, that is not. I too had strange experiences in meditations. Should I throw them all away and take it as waste of time? Maybe I should, maybe not. In the end it's up to everybody to decide what's made up meaningless garbage and what's not. But the conception of the I/There or "disc", whether one finds contradictions or not, is not touched in it's theoretical possibility and it's resonance to some people like me.

Now ok, to set one on top: When I had my first trip to Focus27 (which of course you never know if you are really there or if it's a place at all or just a suggested mind-state) there was a narrow entrance to that locale. When I had gone through it, I perceived after a while a wooden hut over the fog which was below it. I moved into it and it was like a pub. There was a very friendly man behind the counter, like a barkeeper. His name was Bob. To that time, I wasn't familiar with RAMs shortened forename. His behaviour and style as well as his face matched with reports and photographs about/of RAM I read and saw after this meditation. I also saw this person on mind-journeys to the TMI There.
Now, what does that mean? I DON'T KNOW whom I met and if I really met one at all. I just don't know. That's all.

See what you want to see.

Spooky

I like Kathy's take on it, and Marilyn's for this thread; Happy spirit birthday R.A.M.!  The sentiment is enough even if the contact is or isn't there.  

Our loved ones may seem to give fewer contacts over the years after they pass away.  Who knows the whys and the wherefores?  Yet NDEs often show our loved ones waiting for us when we cross over.  Are they temporarily allowed those meetings after they have passed on to higher realms?

I don't doubt that R.A.M.'s family may not be aware of any recent bonafide new contacts with him, but Spooky may have had a form of contact, and sometimes, when I hear him on a TMI CD, I get the distinct impression that he is very much around and amused by the whole thing.

So happy spirit day, and to all a good night


M

Matthew, RAM's family and The Monroe Institute KNOW about all the contacts that are still on-going with RAM because of the different groups of people who have TMI related email groups. We all post our experiences, etc., in the group. Just a week ago, Frank DeMarco (Hampton Roads) posted his conversations with RAM. Bruce belongs to the group too. I don't expect Berserk to believe because he doesn't believe anything but I wanted you to know as I know that you trust and believe me.

With Love,
Mairlyn ;-)

oh, he's around and about all right. I've told my story here about meeting him, back in around 2001 but I'd like to tell it again for the newbies.

and happy birthday Mr Monroe! http://images.bravenet.com/common/images/smilies/happybday.gif

I was just starting my retrieval training adventures following the guidelines given here established by TMI, which i might add I've never been there in person, but had my first spontaneous retrieval after reading Monroe's story of a curl which attached itself to his energy field while he was out and about obe-ing.  many years passed by until coming here and meeting Bruce. I followed the guidelines to establish a place for myself out there. so I imagined a beach cottage for retreivers in training and went there a few times in my mind, I was letting guides know I was available to learn the ropes by doing so.
one time I was wandering the rooms where others like me sat waiting to be called on to do a retrieval.
I saw Bob talking to people in the living room. I floated by wishing I wasn't so shy with a low self esteem problem, whatever, I was a mess. I'd float by, back and forth. he called my name and I tried to stay focused but I faded away. couple of days later in C1, he said "I'm here, please come and sit down." I said sure, wondering if I was imagining this meeting in full C1 in the middle of the day. I started getting friendly vibrations and sat down to listen. I felt honored. what he was telling me was I was going to call this board a home for a long while and he made me feel good about myself. and he was right, I poured my energy onto this board over the years, like I said before, as happy as a pig in mud. when Bob was there, I didn't know I would be here. I stopped questioning what he was saying and was just basking in his smile on me and couldn't think of a single thing to say back, so thinking I should say something, I asked what he was doing now? dumb, huh? well, he saw right thru my nervousness and just grinned and said he was here, there, and everywhere or anywhere he wanted to be, like there was more than one of him. of course I don't understand then or now, how you can split yourself up like that..I aint no einstein, but my mind is wide open. so he strengthened me in the heart area. each heart area is personal proof enough when you feel movement there..it makes your day. and he made mine. a shy girl is my spirit heart..the age of the body makes no difference what u are on the inside of your spirit. he spoke to my heart, and he's just a man, a man who cares about others and who is reachable if that is your plan. I'm no longer the same person I was then. I have more attitude for one thing and I know what I know. matter of fact I'll never be quiet again! ha ha!
I think I understand better about being an unlimited being, in that you can be in two or three places at once now, but for the record, C1 by definition is limited consciousness focused in on a certain experience, and we pass this way for an individualized experience but once in this particular body, so remember to enjoy it and get the most from it. love, alysia

It is so telling that when subjected to honest criticism, you New Agers simply ignore a devastating contradiction between Moen and Monroe and reinforce each other's mindless dogmatism.  In replies 9 and 13, I have exposed absurdities in RAM"s OBE and reincarnational claims that only the most narrow cultic mentality would embrace and no one even tries to defend RAM against his Humpty Dumpty level absurdities.  But then I'm dealing with people who see nothing wrong in grandiosely claiming to be St. Peter (Marilyn) or St. Paul (Hilarinon).  With no limits in your delusional mentality, it is no wonder that it would never occur to you to question the legitimacy of your astral impressions.  Collectively,  your naivite provides the best argument AGAINST belief in an afterlife.

Don

Feelin' a bit frustrated there Berzerk?  You need to release, release, release.

New Age Ghetto NOT

Marilyn,

I am simply trying to get you to address the obvious discrediting contradiction I pointed out between Moen and Monroe on parallel lives.  The silence of New Agers on this point is deafening!  Why do i even bother when people simply reply by transforming their own subjective impressions into iron-clad dogma?  Because of the honest seekers who thank me for exposing the site's cultic fundamentalism and thank me for it.

Don

thats funny. I couldn't sleep lately and started thinking about this board and a voice said or maybe my higher self, or maybe I'm psychic or could be I've just been around here too long? (insert laughter) but the voice said they are over there arguing in the announcements thread of all places. oh well. theres probably a reason.

I don't read Don anymore but that doesn't mean he's not in my head. so since he's in my head, the best way to get him out of there is to express it. whats in my head and since PA mentioned it first, it's in my head about Don's experience with his girlfriend. ever since I read that Don it stuck in my head as a profound and real experience which you deny as real. thats your perogative. you actually set out to retrieve her, then you had to bust through your own disbelief when they wouldn't let you next to her. that was your own disbelief blocking your entrance. wasn't anybody in charge of keeping you away from her. so then you amazed yourself that you had the strength of intention to get through. next she tried to calm you down by letting you know it was cool, she was all right. still you couldn't believe this either. you were sure you were the cause of her decision, the choice she made. her words seem to say the opposite though. still you carry guilt that u don't need to.
the sad fact is when loved ones committ suicide, we the ones left behind think it must be our fault, if only we had acted differently, said or done this or that. I know because I had a similar circumstance on my hands and went obe and met my husband out there. I went through the same guilt, that I was powerless to stop the chain of events, even though I have been a faith healer in this life, I was not allowed to heal the one I most wanted to. the same with you Don. for you set out to retrieve your lady, and retrieving is an act of restoring, or healing. and you did not feel you accomplished that, so you have decided none of this business is real, but just wishful thinking.
I disagree. I think your experience was as real as it's going to get, but you won't get any more of these type of experiences because you simply are blocking them from happening with your powerful nonbelief energy. and so your growth in these areas will be stunted by your own self.
for me, I got over the guilt of the situation with my husband, realizing he was a man who had to make his own decisions, there was nothing I could have done to make him stop killing himself, but I found out by going obe and talking to him, that what he was going thru had nothing to do with whether he loved me or not, he did love me, just as I'm sure whatever your girl went through, it wasn't just about what you had done or said to her, it was about her whole life and sometimes people choose to leave us through death and that was their plan all along, to not become healed here.
are they chickening out? maybe. but it's not for me to judge this. I just changed my mind, to stop carrying guilt and stop suffering because of love, he didn't want me to suffer for him. Neither would your girl want you to go thru life blaming yourself when she's the one decided to do the deed and must have been willing to face whatever's on the other side for her. from what you told us, nobody was beating her up for it.
so why don't you try to talk to her in your mind and pretend like it's real and see what develops for you afterwards? you should try this instead of coming here harangeing people because you cannot believe anymore in the good to prevail and love to win out over fears and guilts and lack of forgiveness.

cheers, alysia

I totally agree with you Alysia regarding Don and his girlfriend. But that's not proof for him so therefore he doesn't believe it.

I've read in many spiritual places to not push someone to believe anything. So I'm through with Don too. I rarely read his posts too because it doesn't do me or anyone any good to be brought down in vibration when we Lightworkers are already up there pretty high. So Don is on his path and we are are ours.

Love, Mairlyn ;-)

Or, Pa, I really doubt what u say ;) u r joking me around of course. about going to hell. c'mon, look around you, hell is a state of mind available right here and many of us go there mentally all the time.
to believe in heaven and hell as locations we go to after death is an idea only. been around for centuries, used to control the masses. of course u know that.

I for one was inspired by your post through spirit to express myself. I have noticed your light from the start. if you are going to die anyway, I'm still glad you took the time to communicate with us before you die.

its just funny to me what folks say here. I found out there's tons of benevolent guides out there in the ozone, taking care of things on both sides of the veil. you don't think for one minute, the good guys are setting up hell situations for us to encounter as we make our transition?
it's not that they throw roses in our path or anything like pearly gates, whatever, but they certainly don't sit around plotting how to get your goat.
Death is the biggest adventure of all! I can't wait! well, yes I can. I'll go with you and hold your hand when it's time..or you probably have plenty of relatives to do that who love you.

love, alysia ;D

Hi PA/D.,
I very much like your post, yes, I have to say that. You know this when you read something and you're thinking: "Yes...yes...exactly...right.....", that's what I thought reading yours. I knew I would have become a little upset if I would have written on this as it seems never-ending dispute so I didn't but now I noticed maybe you became a little upset too, haha, yes I know that. Well, could it be when you're going to hell you would clean up there and open the windows to let some light in? That's how I see you anyway.
Cheers, Spooky

Paranoid Android,

That's good.  Simply deny what might cause your belief system to crash!   First, Roger has posted about Laurie Monroe's denial of Robert's ongoing availability on this website.  He took Moen's course and talked to Laurie himself!  Second,  RAM explains on p. 174 of  "Ulitimate Journey" that he has just one parallel incarnation-- a female one.  This excludes Bruce's absurd claim to be a parallel incarnation of RAM.

Third, any outside observer with a modicum of common sense would see the absurdity of RAM's claim that cave men and flying machines coexisted in our distant past, that Catholic priests would order him to ritually rape a young girl (who, giggle, just happens to be his future wife Nancy), and that alens come to earth for the express purpose of collecting our jokes.  New Agers need to recognize that there are limits to the credibility of astral nonsense.   I respect and use RAM's Hemi-Sync technology, but as a thinker, he's totally out of touch with the instincts of normal people.  He isn't even aware of how such delusions come across to normal readers.      
 
And you're wrong, Marilyn (or should I say St. Peter
;D)?  I believe in most paranormal phenomenon.  I simply believe we must protect the astral planes from kooks who will bring astral exploration a bad name.   And I have experienced more verifiable paranormal experiences than you have.  It would be convenient for your fear-based attacks if you could paint me as a total skeptic.  Hah!

Don

yes PA I do feel people's gratitude and thanks. and you express your thoughts and feelings in a total way and very well. I'm sure many people benefit from your communication, not just me. and if it helps any, what you go thru in your feeling way with people who do not believe the same as you, or me, or Mair, or Dave, or anybody here, is something I understand as well and you are not the first to express to me some sadness, some conflict here, some frustration. Not so long ago I made my goodbye speech from this forum and look at me, still cooking along..must be having fun eh? and I came to the same conclusion u stated above. that the discussion has been ongoing for years literally and leads to nowhere and cannot be resolved to be in agreement, and so talk to whom you resonate with, as for sure, we do not resonate with all people. but its important that we speak our truth when and where we wish so long as we don't force our truth onto another I think its good. exactly as you worded it, i couldn't say it better, that life if to each his own, and u can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.
and thanks to say for one day, I might have accomplished something good. it is words for my soul to drink in. love, alysia

wrote on Apr 7^th, 2006 at 9:52pm:

And yet a few years ago, his own daughter, Laurie, the President of TMI, repudiated claims that RAM is still manifesting hiimself to astral explorers.  Laurie made this claim at Bruce's Virginia workshop!   It is hard to believe that RAM can be contacted by outsiders and not by insiders at TMI.  This is an old controversy, but I want newbies to be aware of it because it calls into question the astral abiities of some on this site to contact the dead.

Don,

Newbies and others should also know that your beliefs are based on very outdated information, misunderstanding of some of the facts and mistatement of other facts.  And that just because you find it hard to believe that Bob could be contacted by "outsiders" does not make that a fact.  As recently as two weeks ago Frank DeMarco (who lives near TMI and is in regular contact with Laurie Monroe) published a series of conversations he was having at the time with Bob Monroe.  (I'll post a few samples as a separate thread on this forum for those who might be interested) This was published to an online TMI Explorer Group and became a running series of posted conversations.  These conversations were about the formulas Bob often used when he signed copies of his books for people.  Over a period of more than a week members of the online TMI Explorer Group emailed the formulas Bob had signed in their books to Frank.  Frank would then visit with Bob to get his explanation of the formula and post the resulting conversation, with Bob, to the Explorer Group.  So, contact with Bob continues to this day, whether you find it hard to believe or not.

What I think you are confused by, Don, is the difference between "channeling" and "contacting."  What Bob said while he was physically alive was that he would not allow himself to be "channeled" after he died.  He did not say he would not allow contact.  I suggest you do some research to learn the difference between channeling someone and just communicating with someone.  It appears that in your zeal to call into question and discredit anyone or anything you don't agree with or believe in you are letting your misunderstanding of the difference become an excuse for stirring up controversy where none exists.  This is a fairly consistent pattern in your posts on these forums and probably the reason, along with your intimidating, bullying style and personal attacks, that many visitors find it difficult to understand why you haven't been banned from this site.  Personally, I find many of your posts to give thoughtful voice to the skeptical side discussion.  


wrote on Apr 7^th, 2006 at 9:52pm:

A  serious contradiction calls into question Bruce Moen's claims of ongoing contact with RAM.  During one of these alleged contacts,  Bruce claims to learn of his status as a parallel incarnation of RAM.  But in "Ultimate Journey," RAM contradicts this and claims to have only one parallel incarnation---"a female one."   So I think all claims to have contacted RAM in the past few years are bogus.

Don, what you say here is a mistatement of the facts and downright misleading, but again perhaps it is just that you don't understand the concepts.  First, your statement that I claimed to be a "parallel incarnation of RAM" is not true as I have never claimed to be a "paralllel incarnation" of Bob Monroe.  I find it irresponsible of you to mistate the facts and then claim that your mistatement of the facts indicates that a "serious contractiction" exists in what appears to be just another of your attempts to discredit me or my work.  Shame on you Don.

In his book Bob claimed to have discovered that he had a parallel incarnation (as you put it) and that this was a woman.  He explained that she had incarnated in the same time frame as Bob as a sort of backup in case he was unable to complete the tasks he'd incarnated to do.  In other words, she incarnated with the mission of accomplishing the same thing he had come here to do.  In the event Bob couldn't do it or complete it she would undertake to accomplish the same mission.  I have never made any such claim.

What I said in my book is that I discovered that Bob and I are connected to the same Disk.  That is, that we are parts of the same Higher Self, or as Bob put it, the same I/There.  This is not all that unusal an occurance.  Bob personally felt that many of those who came to the Monroe Institute to participate in its programs were parts of that same I/There.

While you are certainly entitled to your belief that "all claims to have contacted RAM in the past few years are bogus" your misleading mistatements of facts and personal attacks go beyond mere statement of your beliefs.  

Bruce

wrote on Apr 11^th, 2006 at 3:19pm:

It is so telling that when subjected to honest criticism, you New Agers simply ignore a devastating contradiction between Moen and Monroe and reinforce each other's mindless dogmatism.  In replies 9 and 13, I have exposed absurdities in RAM"s OBE and reincarnational claims that only the most narrow cultic mentality would embrace and no one even tries to defend RAM against his Humpty Dumpty level absurdities.

Don,

"Honest criticism"??  More like misleading mistatement of the facts, (see my previous response to you) personal attacks, and trying to use your mistatement of facts to stir up bogus controversy.  Frankly Don, I'm trying of your tendency toward intimidating, bully, name calling, personal attacks.  

"Devastating contradiction " ??? Don, just because you don't understand the facts surrounding your bogus "devastating contradiction" doesn't mean such a controversy actually exists anywhere but within your own beliefs.  Perhaps others see that, and see no reason to respond to yet another bullying, personal attack by Berserk?  Today I finally just got tired of it, lost patience with it and decided I would comment about my intense dislike for that bullying style of personal attack and name calling you are so fond of using.

"Mindless dogmatism"??  Exposed absurdities??  Don, maybe folks didn't respond to you because they also feel there's "mindless dogmatism" and "absurdities" involved in doing so?  May folks think it's not worth the time and trouble to respond to your name calling, bullying, self rightous, negative approach  toward them?

I for one am really getting tired of it.  I'd appreciate it if you would refrain from using your negative approach in the future.  Stop the name calling.  Stop the intimidation and bullying.  In other words, clean up your act or find another venue that will accept your posting style.  We're done accepting that style here.  

Bruce

Beserk:

Perhaps you should worry about the contradictions in the things you believe, rather than worry about everybody else's supposed brainwashed mind.

Do you think the Bible is without contradictions and makes total sense?

How about Leviticus? Supposedly God tells Moses things such as when people should be stoned and when they should be killed; which things shouldn't be touched because they are abominations (e.g., shellfish); homosexuality is an abomination;  incredible details of how to do animal sacrifices; how a woman is unpure after child birth and has to go through a means of purification that involves animal sacrifice, twice as impure if she has a girl rather than a boy; rules for owning slaves; and so on.

Noah had to build an ark because everybody but Noah and his family was evil, and God wanted to kill everybody but his family.

Abraham had to show that he was willing to sacrifice his son, as demonstration of fear of God.

God killed just about everybody in Sodom and Gomorah because they were homosexuals etc.

Examples abound.

The Bible sure doesn't give God much credit when it comes to viewing him as an infinitely loving and wise being.

I find it hard to understand that even though man's current existence shows that men are free to misrepresent God in any way they want, for some reason, no such misrepresentation manifested when the Bible was put together, even though numerous people played a part in determining how it was put together, and even though numerous versions exist.

Beserk:

The below is absolutely true. It is obvious that your dialouges come from a particular limiting belief system. This is how humans are. I'll admit that I have problems in this regard too.  The only thing I can say for certain is that I exist, I'm aware, I like love and happiness, and I want to all beings to be completely happy. Otherwise, there aren't too many things I'm 100% certain about. And I'm not talking about obvious relative things like 2 + 2 = 5. :)



[quote author=Bruce Moen link=board=anounc;num=1142581648;start=30#33 date=04/13/06 at 13:33:32]


"Mindless dogmatism"??  Exposed absurdities??  Don, maybe folks didn't respond to you because they also feel there's "mindless dogmatism" and "absurdities" involved in doing so?  May folks think it's not worth the time and trouble to respond to your name calling, bullying, self rightous, negative approach  toward them?

I do have to admit that a few of the Monroe stories Beserk points out, are likely to lead to skepticism. In particular, I find it hard to believe that human beings are one in a million when it comes to races of beings having a sense of humor. Of course, one in a million is just an expression.

The airplane/cave thing: I believe the book states that Robert Monroe didn't know when and where it happened. It wasn't necessarilly the planet earth.

I never met Robert Monroe, so I don't know him on a personal level. But it seems like he was an intelligent guy. Therefore, I wonder why he included stories a lot of people would be prone to question. Did the events actually happen; were they symbolic (for example, regarding the humor thing, each race of beings has something unique to offer); or was it a matter of getting people who are too left brained to not proceed any further with the reading of the book, because a left brain person might have a hard time with the I-there viewpoint?

Thank you Bruce for clarifying some things and for stating what you think about all this.

If I had written about this, I would have been accused of "linguistic fauxpas" (since I'm not a native English talker) or similar things ("cultic ignorance" etc.).

And recoverer, yes you too are one of them who could have said many things about those posts. I know, it is soo draining.

Last but not least, PA, yees, I think I felt something :-* ;D .

Spooky

Thank you so much Bruce. It's what I've been praying for. One of my friends was so happy to see it that he called me on the phone. ;-)

Much Love and Appreciation,
Mairlyn ;-)

Yes Bruce I want to say thank you for clarifying things; I feel that now maybe some newbies will join in here and not be afraid we are religious freaks and set in our ways and therefore they would not share with us what is going on in their own lives, and I am very interested to hear from newbies whatever country they come from. the time has come where religious misinterpretations are falling by the wayside; we may be watching it's death throes this minute and not even be fully aware of it. We will only keep the biblical verses which cannot be misinterpreted; such as tolerance, love for one another; perhaps these cannot be misinterpreted? well, probably they could! :P  over here and with others like Mair too, we are talking about that Bruce is on the board!
it is one happy day for us...again, Ram, Happy Birthday! love, alysia

 Thank You Bruce , round of clap clap claps can be heard  around the world.
                                                      linn

Thank you Bruce. I feel more energy already. ;-)

Love, Carolyn

Bruce,

It is to be expected that when a website New Age host is challenged, its groupies will pile on with unloving ad hominem attacks.   It is precisely this mindless conformity that prompts my ghetto rhetoric.   So I am unphased by the expected venemous reactions.  My spiritual quest for answers is more important than gaining warm vibes from New Agers who seldom even try to answer honest challenging questions from earnest seekers.  I am not a debunker, Bruce.  I tried to register in TMI's Gateway program, but got closed out.  If you or your followers had extended the courtesy of addressing my barriers, I would have read all your books and even been willing to travel far to take your course.  In the absence of simple answers to basic questions, I have resorted to direct and honest reactions based on my current understanding of your claims and RAM's.  I am thoroughly disillusioned now and will permanently leave this site as soon as Craig formulates his final questions or comments on my Spitfire thread.  

Misunderstanding and credibility are two separate issues.  I've always been open to corrections of my misunderstandings of your claims.   But you and your graduates have not given me the courtesy of direct replies.  The credibility problem with RAM's reaincarnation "memories" is much more serious and, once again, you conveniently ducked my critique.  So I feel compelled to repeat my critique.

(1) In his college days, RAM gained acclaim for a play he wrote.  It is his creativity as a playwrite that is on display in 3 of his obviously delusory past life experiences during supposed OBEs:

(a) a prior incarnation as a cave man pilot of a mentally controlled aircraft that is forced to dodge the spears of primitive hostile natives (UJ 157): The combination of prehistoric and modern technological motifs exposes the delusion here.  It seems fanciful to smply resort to the desperate expedient of claiming that cave men and pilots used to  interact regularly on another planet.

(b) an incarnation as a "vibrationist" from a "probably" non-human race whose members "have and use the ability to manipulate matter to suit whatever need through mental vibrational energy (UJ 158f.)  Sure!

(c) a prior incarnation as a novice Christian priest invited by his fellow priests to rape " a frightened young girl" who is tied down and spread-eagled for a kind of spiritual test for RAM: RAM asks us to believe that the girl is a prior incarnation of his wife, Nancy (UJ 154-56).  As corrupt as some in holy orders sometimes are, no Catholic order would formally invite a novitiate to rape a young girl!

RAM offers an earlier version of this memory in "Far Journeys," 115-16.  The 2 versions contradict each other in enough absurd ways to discredit this whole past life memory.  In both versions, a young girl is tied down on a church altar, but RAM is dissuaded from performing the nasty ritual by the deep expression in her eyes.  In the earlier version, his assigment is to kill her with several stabbings from a sword.  Supposedly, these stabbings will cause her "exquisite ecstasy."  In the later version, he must simply rape her.  In the earlier version, RAM is already a priest and is well aware of the deadly ritual he must perform.  In the later version, he is only a novice and has no advance inkling about the nature of the ritual.  In the earlier version, a mob will stone him to death if he backs out of the ritual.  In the later version, the ritual is just a test.  The other priests would stop him if he proceeded.  The earlier version has a fairy tale ending: a bright white ray melts the sword and severs the ropes that bind the girl.  In the later version, the white light simply signals the end of the vision of RAM'S past life.  Need I say more?

Equally absurd is RAM's alleged OBE encounter with an alien who emerges from a flying saucer looking like comedian, W. C. Fields.  this alien confesses that his species has come to earth not to do DNA experiments, but to collect jokes (UJ 48-50).  

I'm willing to concede that RAM may have had some genuine OBEs.  But in an experiment conducted by Charles Tart, RAM's gift did not bear up very well under close scrutiny.  "His [RAM's] continuing description of what our home looked like and what my wife and I were doing was not good at all; he `perceived' too many people in the room, he `perceived' me doing things I did not do, and his description of the room itself was quite vague."  [See Tart's Introduction to "Journeys Out of the Body."]

I now turn to possible misunderstandings which I've tried for years to clear up--in vain.  I will again quote the relevant page of "Ultimate Journey:"

(2) {RAM:]  "How many lifetimes are there?" [I-There:] "A thousand, perhaps, or more..." {RAM:] "I have an idea there there's another one being human here at his this time--another one out of this I-There of ours."  

MY COMMENTS: RAM is not alluding here to one parallel incarnation among others.  He discerns that there is only one other member of his "Higher Self" or soul Disk currently on earth.  That is the plain meaning of his statement.

"[I-There:] "That is so.  That is your reserve or substitute, you might say.  A backup.  But you are first in line."

MY COMMENTS: The simple response "That is so," affirms RAM's impression that he has only one parallel incarnation.  "I-There" does not distinguish this "backup" from other parallel incarnations who are not tasked with the mission "to find one final piece."  You claim that you and Bob "are parts of the same Higher Self" or the same "I-There."  To me, that amounts to the same thing as claiming to be a parallel incarnation from this "Self", and in that sense, of Bob.  If you were correct, Bob could in that sense rightly claim to be a parallel incarnation of you.  

[RAM:] "This other...is it--she--female?"  [I-There) "She is."  [RAM:] "Should I arrange to meet her."  [i-There:] "Later perhaps.  She would seem like a long-lost sister."  

MY COMMENTS: I take this comment to exclude your status as a parallel incarnation from RAM's soul disk.  And you never reported that RAM seemed like his long-lost brother!  Nor did RAM echo such sentiments about you during their earthly encounters.  Or am I wrong?

[Bruce:] "Bob personally felt that many of those who came to the Monroe Institute to particiate in its programs were parts of that same I-There."  To me, this seems to contradict what he implies in "Ultimate Journey."  I've always assumed that your believe every reincarnation synthesizes certain aspects of the "I-There."  So what is the difference between a parallel incarnation and an incarnation of one's "I-There"?  And if there is a distinction, why didn't you or a graduate of your course explain this distinction years ago in answer to my repeated restatements of this problem?

(3) [Bruce:] "Just because you find it hard to believe that Bob could be contacted by "outsiders" does not make that a fact."

No, you are callously distorting my questions.  I neither find "outsider" contact with RAM hard to believe nor an I confused by the distinction between "channeling" and "contacting" as you suggest.  Roger took your course in Virginia and talked to Laurie Monroe there.  She rejected the notion of ongoing "contact" with her father.  She did so in the context of your affirmation of such ongoing contacts.   Any normal person would be concerned about this contradiction and you have no right to villefy me for posing it.   Roger and I always realized it might simply be some sort of misunderstanding.  For years I have periodically been pleading with you and other graduates of your course to explain the contradiction.  In response to the icy silence here, it was natural to suppose that the contradiction was very real because it seemed to strike a raw nerve.  So I even E-mailed this question to TMI but received a non-comiittal reply.   The courtesy of a simple reply from you or TMI years ago would have encouraged me in my quest to learn to perform retrievals.   Even now, you have not really answered my question.   I want to know if Laurie has not changed her mind, and if not, why not.   I don't care about Frank's claims.  This question is particularly acute in view of the astral insights of Robert Bruce and Swedenborg that the deceased soon lose contact with their earth memories.

Don

Don,

I have been a supporter of yours, despite your harsh personal remarks because I see a different side of you.  I too don't like any bullying comments, I don't like the term "new age ghetto," or lumping people on the site together as if they were a group of deluded college age hippies on an acid trip.  That being said, you have a keen intellect, you are exceptionally well read and you have an ability to glean the true meaning of many discussions and get to the heart of things.

Don, I also see in your posts, a yearning to cross the threshold that holds you back from exploring like Bruce, RAM, Swedenborg and Robert Bruce.  I agree with Alyssia.  I think there is a "new ager," yearning to break free.  Proof of this is readily seen in your posts; you say that when you leave this site, you plan to practice from a well written text on astral projection and use hemi-sync CDs.  The entire system of hemi-sync, and the gateway series is based on not just the technology, but the New Age system that you so readily criticize.  Astral projection is not that far from TMI.  Don't you find this ironic?  Yet you are coming from a regimented intellectual/academic background that functions as a belief system.  (I know it well being an academic physician).  I believe you have had more mystical experiences than most, but that to make the leap you are looking for, you will have to, like Robert Bruce break down your belief system and recreate it from scratch.  Only you can say if you would do this.  

You are a breath of fresh air in christian thought, as you are open to the idea of a truly spiritual christian, not tied to conventional Roman Catholic dogma or interpretation of the bible.  You have tied the heart of Jesus' teachings into what is thought of as new age thought, and left the door open for others to join you.  For this alone, your contributions to this board have been monumental.

Don, as a third party reading these postings, I must say that I don't think Bruce's feeling that he is part of the same disc as RAM is at all contradicted by RAM saying he had onlye one parallel incarnation as a woman.  These two people (Bruce and RAM) are insightful human beings giving you their best impressions of personal spiritual experiences.  As such, if let us say one were "wrong," it would not be a devastating contradiction.  Rather, it would be an impression that missed the mark.  As Dave so eloquently says on the board "BFD."  A disc member of a  higher self, as I understand it is not the same as a parallel incarnation.  I too have trouble with the idea that spirit can subdivide itself into different simultaneous personalities.  However, there is no right answer to this.  If we are all one with God, in a way, God  has divided his essence into a legion of individualities.  I can't pretend to understand that fully.

The loopy RAM stories that you cite have to be taken in context with his overall writings, teachings and experiences.  Why does he write of them if they sound crazy? Perhaps out of honesty, to show it all; good, bad or ugly.  The interpreter, as Bruce calls it, in RAM may have been off in those instances, but not in others.  I for one take those tales as personal experiences of RAM, and don't try to over-read anything into them.  All people are fallible be they Swedenborg, Robert Bruce, RAM or you and me.  

To sum up, Don, I hope you will not let the drubbing you are getting stop you from posting in the future.  Bruce's comments hurt because they were, to some extent right on the mark.  Why not swallow your pride, and admit that you might have been a bit bullying and heavy handed?  Why not continue a dialogue with myself and others here without the negative comments?  Your points would still be made; certainly you have the eloquence to do this.


Matthew

Don,

I agree with everything Matthew is saying to you.  I, too, see another side of you and have found personal value in many of your posts.  I actually think you do have many friends here on this forum.  Even the ones you are critical of care about you because they understand and work to practice unconditional love in their lives.  They also understand the concepts of how each of us is one on the higher vibration levels of our being and the harmony that brings between us all.

Like the rest of us you are on a quest to discover more of our total being.  The reason why you and the rest of us have trouble creating what we really want is because of our cross intentions.  These mixed intentions go much deeper than most of us realize because of the beliefs we hold.  Many of our beliefs are unconscious.  We simply take certain things for granted.  This makes our cross intentions unconscious many times as well.  This is why we do need to recreate our belief systems.  A big part of this is letting go of our limiting beliefs.  The ones that say… this makes no sense such as the items RAM talked about.  That doesn’t mean you have to accept something as your truth.  It means we accept that each of us has their own truth and we need to be respectful of that because if were not, then we create an attachment to it that prevents us from having a clear intention.  Perhaps I’ll write more about this later on a different thread.

Now I’m not trying to add to any pain you may be feeling, however, do you realize that in this thread you went from taking the attitude of choosing to be self-righteous to that of choosing to be a victim of circumstance and blaming others for your actions in your reply to Bruce?  There are intentions behind both of these attitude choices and they are in conflict of what you really want to create.

Like Matthew, I hope you do continue to post.  And yes, just in case you have any doubts… you do have the eloquence to do so in ways that make your point in a respectful manner.

Much love and many blessings Don.

Kathy

Don,

I guess it is also to be expected that your response would continue in your bullying and belittling, name-calling, discrediting, intimidating style.  Don, it's just not acceptable behavior.  If it doesn't stop soon you won't have to worry about leaving the site and never posting again, you'll be banned from this site.  I am sick and tired of visitors here being called names, belittled, bullied and discredited for expressing their beliefs and sharing their experiences. Do you even understand what I'm talking about?

>>  In his college days, RAM gained acclaim for a play he wrote.  It is his creativity as a playwright that is on display in 3 of his obviously delusory past life experiences during supposed OBEs:   <<

Don, that's not and "honest direct question, that's a name calling insult.  You don't believe Monroe's descriptions of his experiences, that's fine.  But to call him "obviously delusory" don't you see the difference between asking an "honest direct question" and calling Monroe delusionary?  Don that's a violation of the posting guidelines for these forums.  That's kind of thing that causes me to I get so many Peer Moderator complaints asking me to ban you from this site.  Don, your tendency when you don't agree with someone is resort to naming calling, discrediting and belittling attacks on anyone and every one.

>>  you and your graduates have not given me the courtesy of direct replies. <<

Don, people don't reply to you because they know that it will most likely lead to being verbally attack by you.  It's ironic you use the word "courtesy" here.  If you had used courtesy in your dealings with others here you'd have gotten far more replies.  As it is there are some here who have been willing to overlook your ill treatment of others, myself among them, because often there is value in what you have to say.  You are obviously an intelligent, well-read, deep thinker, but your people skills could use a little work.

>>  The credibility problem with RAM's reincarnation "memories" is much more serious and, once again, you conveniently ducked my critique.  So I feel compelled to repeat my critique.  <<

Duck your critique?  You call that a critique?   Don, this is not a critique, it is a belittling, naming-calling attack of Monroe's description of his experiences.

>> The combination of prehistoric and modern technological motifs exposes the delusion here.  <<

If you had said you didn't understand how could be possible for his description of his experience to be true, I might have a way to dialogue about that.  But instead your style is call Monroe delusional and extend your invitation for someone to argue you out of that position, all this posing as a "critique."

>>  RAM offers an earlier version of this memory in "Far Journeys," 115-16.  The 2 versions contradict each other in enough absurd ways to discredit this whole past life memory.  <<

Here you are calling Monroe a liar, name calling again in a blatant discrediting attack on the man.  Don, I don't care what you believe about the man, his credibility or lack of it, that's your business.  But your attack on him is a violation of the posting guidelines of these forums.  These forums are not venue for attacking and discrediting people for what they believe or share about their experiences.  These forums are a venue for folks to share their experiences, questions, ideas and suggestions, with courtesy.

>>  Equally absurd is RAM's alleged OBE encounter with an alien who emerges from a flying saucer looking like comedian, W. C. Fields. <<

So you believe Monroe's description of his experience is absurd I have no problem with that.  What I do have a problem with is that it is just another of your usual bullying, belittling attacks that violates the posting guidelines of these forums. Just because you don't see Monroe as having credible experiences does not give you the right to express that in style we have all become accustom to from you.

>>  MY COMMENTS: RAM is not alluding here to one parallel incarnation among others.  He discerns that there is only one other member of his "Higher Self" or soul Disk currently on earth.  That is the plain meaning of his statement.  <<

Don, that is your opinion of the "plain meaning" of what he's describing, it is not necessarily the only "plain meaning" of his statement, especially when you take into account what he wrote on the subject of I/There in his other materials.  I suppose someone with a lot of patience could go through everything else Monroe wrote on the subject and point out to you what else he had to say about the matter.  But why would anyone do that when they think your response to what they say will be just be in the form of another name-calling, belittling attack on them for not agreeing with you?  

Don, I've never found a way to learn the truth in these matters by trying to analyze what others write about them. No matter what any writer says about any topic I will ALWAYS find another writer who directly contradicts it.  I am left with trying to choose between various writers based on whatever criteria I chose to judge their credibility.  And these criteria are ALWAYS based on my present beliefs about what is credible and what is not. I never make any progress; I just end up trying to make sense of the mutually conflicting claims of various writers.  That is why I suggest the YOUR OWN DIRECT EXPERIENCE is the best course of action.  With it there is the possibility that I will be experience something that conflicts with my beliefs, and I am the only available 'authority' who can determine if it really happened.
 
>>  MY COMMENTS: I take this comment to exclude your status as a parallel incarnation from RAM's soul disk.  <<

That is your opinion based on your analysis of what Monroe had to say on the matter in these few words of one of his books.  Don, you are entitled to your opinion, I have no problem with that.  If you understood more of what Monroe had to say about I/There, maybe your opinion would change, maybe it would not.  What I do have a problem with is that you express your opinion in discrediting, personal attacks on others and me.  As I said before, this is not a venue for that.  If that's what you want to do why don't you create your own website, make up your own posting guidelines, and skewer me there to your heart's content?

>>  So what is the difference between a parallel incarnation and an incarnation of one's "I-There"?  <<

As an analogy, it is the difference between being a member of the same extended family, a cousin, an uncle, a fourth aunt twice removed, and being a clone of a member of the same family.  I/There can be thought of as one's 'family' with members simultaneously existing while living physically on earth, nonphysically, on other planets, within other dimensions, as I/There, etc.  My opinions about things are all explained in the books I've written.  Part of the reason I wrote these books is because I don't have the time in my life to re-explain everything I've experienced or discovered for every person who asks.

>> She rejected the notion of ongoing "contact" with her father. <<

Bob Monroe completely rejected the notion that his own wife, Nancy, could be contacted by anyone more than six moths after her death.  So what!  That was his belief to live by, not mine.   It turned out he was wrong, and it may it very hard for those of us in contact with Nancy talk to Bob about those contacts and pass along her messages to him.

>>  Any normal person would be concerned about this contradiction and you have no right to villefy me for posing it.  <<

Don I didn't villefy you for posting about what in your view is a contradiction, I objected to you violating posting guidelines by your way of attacking and attempting to discredit me with your choice of words.  You didn't just 'pose it' Don.  You turned it into a discrediting attack on me in your typical style.  

So, Laurie didn't believe it, so what.  That's her belief to live by, not mine.  If you want to believe that her beliefs prevent anyone from contacting her dad, that's your choice.  If you see a contraction between her beliefs and my experience that's fine, so what?  But, I see no reason that I should have to explain how or why her beliefs conflict with my experience to satisfy you or anybody else. My experience, good, bad, real, fantasy or whatever is my perception of my experience.  All I can do is share it, if someone chooses not to believe me I have no problem with that.  What I do have a problem with is being personally attacked, called names, belittled, etc. for sharing my experience.  If that's what you want to do, create your own website with your own posting rules and have at it.  Just don't do it here.

>>  I want to know if Laurie has not changed her mind, and if not, why not. <<

If that is what you want, contact her and ask her.

>> This question is particularly acute in view of the astral insights of Robert Bruce and Swedenborg that the deceased soon lose contact with their earth memories. <<

Like I said above Don, if you try to find the truth in the writings of others you get no where.  You will always be able to find another writer who will claim the deceased do not soon lose their earth memories.  Then you are right back to having to choose who is right and who is wrong based on what you presently believe instead of on your own direct experience.

In closing Don, if you can find a way to be courteous and stop your bullying, belittling, intimidating, discrediting and personal attacks on others in your posts here you are welcome to stay.  If not, your posting privileges will be revoked.

Bruce

Quote:

So I am unphased by the expected venemous reactions.

I don't know what you're reading but I have seen no venemous reactions. In fact, I have seen very polite reactions to your venemous words used here.

I really do feel sorry for you as I feel you are a seeker. However, until you put aside your ego and set aside your beliefs, I don't think you will have any luck with the Gateway Experience tapes that you have procrastined on using for several years now. I honestly hope I'm wrong.

Peace,
Mairlyn

Bruce said to Don..You are obviously an intelligent, well-read, deep thinker, but your people skills could use a little work.
______

ah, thats about it in a nutshell Don. in your search, whatever, you don't seem to care who you step on to authenticate your beliefs and your sense of being powerful to "save" us from delusion. you alienate far more people than you befriend. Indeed, your purpose is not to be generous with others.
I have thought your true purpose here is to bring the forum down. Not only the forum but all new age thought because you believe we here are like a cult.
I have also thought you have negs hanging off you as you do so love to authenticate possession and the reality of demons.
We have stated here time and time again, which you conveniently ignore, that one attains one's own experience and then chooses their belief system. as I already pointed out, I am convinced you had an authentic obe and you chose to discredit your own experience as not worthwhile to study and gleam another path from it. I waste my breath giving energy of my thought to you as you do not read what we write and are trying to help you see we are not cultists and are not attacking you personally. yes, we are thinking "new" thoughts, but that does not mean we should be labeled, called various names, and you do pick and choose who you respond to, as I have been ignored by you numerous times..is why I ceased talking to you or reading you. I gave up.
I even gave up sharing my experiences here, even though it is something I love doing. It had become your board for sounding.

I know you like to play chess, see, I know how your mind works..you've turned this place into a chess game. and the more people who gather round to watch you play, the better you enjoy yourself. even now you are probably counting the number of views and congratulating yourself on how well you can stir us all up. I admit, it might be boring here without you, on the other hand, I think not. I think without you here, a lot of people would feel free to post their most mind blowing experiences which tells them they are more than they thought they were. we all need to tell our stories, and I've seldom heard any stories from you, other than the one you discredit as real.

maybe you are a part of our disc. maybe you are the one to cause us all to think about what it is we wish to create in this place, maybe thats why all of a sudden as one, we put our foot down, we say stop it Don, we've had enough of the same old, same old. for years, same thing..u never grow, you never change, you just make promises to do that. and I stopped waiting for you to express something real, something kind, something to give hope to a wanderer. but nope, all you can say is watch out for demons. thanks, I think we can handle it.

notice what Bruce says over and over and over. he does not ban you. he's giving a warning. you are in his living room, trashing the place. all he's saying is watch your lip, you are among polite company, like a snotty, hyper little kid with a genious mentality.

I've said way too much.  :P  it's still the number one board for coming together with the like minded and the seekers, and it's a neat place that got created here by the likes of Rosalie, Bruce, Ram and I for one always send gratitude to these people as it gave me a place to talk and get my ideas in order. I've grown as a person here since 2001 and it wasn't accidental I found the place. So what Bruce says, I can understand that. he asked you make yourself a website. There, you can be the big shot you think you are. well, could you do it? would people read you?
maybe not. I just can't say. I think you just prefer to take someone else's website and park there, challenging people to a chess game because you know all the right moves.

whatever. what am I doing? I have a book to finish up, I can't be messing with you either. you won't answer me anyway because you can't hear us.
:(

"Don..You are obviously an intelligent, well-read, deep thinker, but your people skills could use a little work.  Ah, thats about it in a nutshell Don. in your search, whatever, you don't seem to care who you step on to authenticate your beliefs and your sense of being powerful to "save" us from delusion. you alienate far more people than you befriend. Indeed, your purpose is not to be generous with others.
_____________________

Alysia, you violate a confidence in a PM and tell the world here that you think I lied about recovering from my cancer and you speak to me about my lack of people skills?  In effect, you were making sport of my presumed dying!  I was telling the truth.   Even if I had been lying, don't you think my privacy about the matter should be respected?  Of course, I am a dissident voice here; so trying to expose my physical vulnerability is fair game and goes over well with the New Agers here.  

[Alysia:] "I have thought your true purpose here is to bring the forum down."
_____________________

Fortunately, your unkind imputation of motive is contradicted by my "Private Message" supporters who are appalled by these group attacks and have thanked me for my help and support.  Some have even told me that my posts are the only motivation for their being here.  The truth is, you know very well that many people find my posts helpful.  I mean, just look at the number of views of some of my posts.

[Alysia:] "You had an authentic obe and you chose to discredit your own experience as not worthwhile to study and gleam another path from it. "
____________________________________

Oh, would I love to believe that my OBE retrieval of Janet was genuine.  But I care about her wellbeing after her suicide more than I care about my need for comfort about her condition.   The more I read the uncritical blurring of the OBE/ lucid dream distinction here, the more I tend to believe that such  retrievals are impossible in this life.  Yes, I am fighting that inference and seeking better examples than I find on this site.  But then I see RAM's disregard for the credibiliity problems posed by his [to me] absurd reincarnation memories and alien comedian claims and I notice that the New Agers here don't think that's a problem.  So I can't help wondering whether the gullibility of astral explorers discredits all their astral claims.   That genuine doubt was not a pleasant inference because it makes Janet's predicament seem more precarious.

[Alysia:] "All he's saying is watch your lip, you are among polite company, like a snotty, hyper little kid with a genious mentality."
______________________

Oh, I can just feel th PUL!  you complain about my reports on possession.  Yet I'm usually merely replying to others who post questions on this subject.  And am I not entitled to ask for balance on this question?  Are not my family's experiences with exorcism just as relevant as the more comfortable reports by New Agers?  

I came here to learn, but my challenging questions are often not directly addressed.  Fortunately, in the current flap, I've finally come up  with a new idea here.  Of course, I've read all 3 of Monroe's books and Bruce's 4th book.  But it never occurred to me that parallel incarnations and membership in a Disk might be 2 different things.   Disk membership might therefore have nothing to do with reincarnation of the ego.   That at least has potential for bring the Moen/Monroe view into dialogue with the Swedenborgian and channeled notion of a non-reincarnational group soul.  The same reality might be experienced from a very different perspective.  It might also be relevant to Swedenborg's claims that past life recall is a misunderstanding of spirit mergers.  Finally, it might have potential for reconcilation with the traditional Judeo-Christian notion of the soul's preexistence, despite the fact that this view precludes reincarnation.

Don

wrote on Apr 14^th, 2006 at 6:48pm:

...membership might therefore have nothing to do with reincarnation of the ego.   That at least has potential for bring the Moen/Monroe view into dialogue with the Swedenborgian and channeled notion of a non-reincarnational group soul.  The same reality might be experienced from a very different perspective.  It might also be relevant to Swedenborg's claims that past life recall is a misunderstanding of spirit mergers.  Finally, it might have potential for reconcilation with the traditional Judeo-Christian notion of the soul's preexistence, despite the fact that this view precludes reincarnation.

Don, here is a nugget in your post that is thoughtful and worth sharing. The rest please I'd rather see on your own board. Maybe then you could post a link to it with your lectures, challenges, diatribes and heated debates. You could even have your own posting guidelines. I'm serious, I think you'd enjoy having your own forum, and many would come visit.

Love, Carolyn

I did not read your response to me Don, I only got as far as "alysia, you violate..blah blah..

I violate nothing..those are your rules. spirit will not allow me to read anything you say and i look to my own vistas...I refuse to look at yours. I am so happy with myself. I will ask spirit if it wants me to help you in any way with your soul growth. I will listen for the answer. but for this moment, spirit tell me to say goodbye. so good bye!  :-X

                        All of us here, everyone of us are bona fide card carrying members of  "The  Club"   The "There is something more out there club" you may be a banker, lawyer, Actor, teacher, Minister, Doctor, author, afterlife explorer, healer, psychic, Medium, tarot reader , well you get the picture but we are all cut from  the same cloth., someplace inside of our Psyche is a nudging and we must seek out others that also share this searching for more. We want to rub elbows with others who are searching the same ,we want to  interact with each other, touch base with "Home" who we truly are,, some may come posed as skeptics some may come posed as a teacher of enlightenment but what they really are here for is to touch base with others from "Home" our true Home. .  There was a tv show here in the states called "Cheers" and the theme song was, You want to go where everyone knows your name .  In Other words you want to go where you can be understood , Some of you who are reading this may say to self , I dont post on there I just read  what has been posted, dont kid yourself you are a card carrying member too or you would not be reading the material posted., its not by accident that you stumbled upon a website such as this one. You know deep inside of you that you are much more than the vehicle you are residing in at the moment and there is more  than what  this three dimensional planet  offers.  For whatever reason you think  you are here, its because you want to belong to this club.  Linn

thanks Linn. club humanity as everything that goes on out there goes on here too.
love, alysia

After reading T. Lobsang Ramp's series of 24 books, I thought that no one else could compare to his metaphysical experiences. That was back when I was in my 20's.  Another 20 years went by and I was suddenly introduced to Robert Monroe thru a Whitley Strieber book. Robert A Monroe (aka RAM) helped confirm what I already knew: there is no time, there is no death, there is an afterlife with many realms. He went way beyond any other literature and/or media regarding metaphysical travels. I myself have not met him---yet. I say "Hello, Bob" each time I hear his voice on a tape or CD. I can "feel" him smiling each time I try another adventure to "There".
Thank you, RAM, for all your encouragement, instruction and PUL. You are truely a highly evolved spirit.  Happy 11th Spirit Birthday.  Love your ident---CAT

wrote on Apr 14^th, 2006 at 11:32pm:

All of us here, everyone of us are bona fide card carrying members of  "The  Club"   The "There is something more out there club" you may be a banker, lawyer, Actor, teacher, Minister, Doctor, author, afterlife explorer, healer, psychic, Medium, tarot reader , well you get the picture but we are all cut from  the same cloth., someplace inside of our Psyche is a nudging and we must seek out others that also share this searching for more. We want to rub elbows with others who are searching the same ,we want to  interact with each other, touch base with "Home" who we truly are,, some may come posed as skeptics some may come posed as a teacher of enlightenment but what they really are here for is to touch base with others from "Home" our true Home. .  There was a tv show here in the states called "Cheers" and the theme song was, You want to go where everyone knows your name .  In Other words you want to go where you can be understood , Some of you who are reading this may say to self , I dont post on there I just read  what has been posted, dont kid yourself you are a card carrying member too or you would not be reading the material posted., its not by accident that you stumbled upon a website such as this one. You know deep inside of you that you are much more than the vehicle you are residing in at the moment and there is more  than what  this three dimensional planet  offers.  For whatever reason you think  you are here, its because you want to belong to this club.  Linn

I probley would'nt have come, if i was going to be stuck in the same space as people like you.

Don, keep posting my son, at least with you, what you see is what you get'. Life is alot less stressful away from such people... ive had a few months of total peace... Whats the point of living on this planet, if all you think about is acting like you lived in a care bear reality, when you cannot get no where near being 'all-loving' because of the human nature being naturally atuned to think of 'number one'.

Effort = result... it's that simple, but these people just suck your time, and energy and give you nothing. If you want answer's seek them somewhere else.

To whom may concern,

'' If the only tool you have is a hammer,


you tend to see every problem as a nail."

                             ABRAHAM  MASLOW

wrote on Apr 14^th, 2006 at 11:32pm:

For whatever reason you think you are here, its because you want to belong to this club.  Linn

really? this is so a very personal judgement...or we are just here to witness what we cant be the part of?
i 'd personally refuse to be the part of this "club", if nobody minds..if only everyone could witness the "inside" talks.. even of their own. right?  

wrote on May 13^th, 2006 at 8:29am:

To whom may concern, '' If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail."                              ABRAHAM  MASLOW

I really like this quote and thank you for posting it.

Well PA, to each his own. You think you didn't come here to be enlightened. Then why are you here? What is your core belief? It seems to me that a lot of judging is being done without deep thinking. Everyone has a right to their own opinions. I'm asking for everyone to do a deep meditation on this and see what you come up with. It may surprise you to realize that we are all ONE whether you believe this now or not.

I don't really know why I bother with this anymore except for the fact that I'm a LightWorker.

Ardallan, I love the quote too. ;-)

Blessings, Mairlyn

wrote on May 16^th, 2006 at 1:52pm:

Then why are you here?

why am i here? :) i am not here. not at all..i wont be staying here when people say i am talking cheap and then paint the situation with fancies afterwards..i WAS here just to witness once again that dreaming of a bear would mean to be "bearish"  for the some particular dreamers; and yet again exact poor little bear would mean just "spiritual growth" and "enlightenment" for some other...and we are sooo ONE..hallelujah !..
it is just sad.

*edit* ah, btw, saying that i am a gardner, wont make me one as long as the flowers dont agree with me ..right? and i am sorry but besides a lightworker doesnt have a chance of discarding some people as "weed". Silly me.. you ought be knowing this better than i do, already.

Someday you'll understand. ;-)

Namaste (the God in me recognizes the God in you)
Mairlyn

wrote on May 16^th, 2006 at 1:52pm:

I don't really know why I bother with this anymore except for the fact that I'm a LightWorker.

Bingo dear One; sometimes even with light we find it hard, but then it's up to whoever want to look for it..to go deeper within. and some don't.
Be kind to yourself TS..:)
Sending lignt and love, R.

Berserk---
You must be a student of James Randi.  Read:
An Encyclopedia fo Claims, Frauds, and Hoaxes of the Occult and Supernatural by James Randi--AKA- The Amazing Randi.
It's good to have skeptics.  It helps the rest of us to continue to do our research and not get slack in the area of parapsychology and spirit.  You're a keeper!!! Thanks for all the interesting research. It keeps me on my "toes".  Love and Light ---Carol Ann

Ardallan--- it seems that Abraham Maslow was very narrow minded. I can think of many ways to use a hammer: as a door stop, to hammer upon a large kitchen knife to split an acorn squarsh, use the claw side to pull out not just nails, but large staples, seperate two pieces of wood, use the flat surface of the hammer to place another tool or craft upon to have a strong foundation beneith it.  I have been using hammers for all sorts of things in my 56 years, and I am a woman.  When I see a nail or a way of thinking, I know that there are other ways of thinking.  Just like those thoughts of Berserk---they serve a purpose.  Perhaps Abraham Maslow never used a hammer in his life???
Love and Light---cat

yes, i will hopefully.


it is gonna be really funny if my god happens to salute you with all those bearish attidues, dont you think? (..something to really fake a smile?)

wrote on May 17^th, 2006 at 2:45am:

..i WAS here just to witness once again that dreaming of a bear would mean to be "bearish"  for the some particular dreamers; and yet again exact poor little bear would mean just "spiritual growth" and "enlightenment" for some other...and we are sooo ONE..hallelujah !.. it is just sad. .

PA i miss something here....what's with the dream of a bear?? Elaborate please??
Have you seen a bear in your dreams more than once of just once? which colour? what kind of bear..etc..
thanks, R

Pa--- I have two wonderful books on animal tokems--:
by Ted Andrews:Animal Speak and The Animal-Speak Workbook.  If you would like me to send you the explaination of the bear (or butterfly), I would be happy to do so.  
To all--- that goes for everyone one on Bruce's site. Love and Light--- Cat (Carol Ann)