Each one of us has started its own progress track at a different point in time.  When a spirit evolutes enough it enters the human experience and it starts to become responsible for its acts. During its initial incarnation in the human “gender” its main focus is to develop the basic of a language and social rules.  As long as it grows it becomes more responsible for its acts. The reincarnation process is the law that provides a continuous track of development.

The acts a man practices along His incarnation will define his/her astral body status, any intentional damage at his/her self physical body will generate kind of an unbalance at his/her astral body. The fetus is developed by the parents “genetic material” and this material is assembled by the image of the astral body, if it is damaged by a previous reincarnation bad acts it won’t be able to generate a perfect body. The injuries (emotional/physical) that one cause intentionally at another will also generate an “energetic” trauma at the astral body of the agent of the “bad action”. It’s impossible to do any thing which means a bad action without some level of damage to our selves, because the energy stream starts deep inside our astral body and along it’s track towards the external world it passes along our selves. So if it is a bad energy it will cause us some damage, if is good energy it will make some kind of energy improvement, helping at first the one who is trying to help any other and only after that it will reach the target of the good action/desire.

The sum of our acts, feelings, and thoughts along our incarnation will give us a specific “energetic level, this energetic level will take us to the appropriate place at the astral word once our physical body dies.

All you know that are god places and bad places there.

We’re all monitored in order to check the best moment to a reincarnation in order to solve our wounds (mental/emotional/astral physical) as more developed a “soul” is more complex and detailed will be the procedures and planning to the next experience. In other hand as lower a “soul’s” evolution was more simple will be the questions involved on it.

The participation of a “soul” at it own reincarnation planning depends on its level of awareness and development. Some casa (very rare) the soul is totally able to define all details of its next incarnation without help.

There are reincarnation at all spiritual levels. The main difference is that at the boton level its is a very strong need and at the higher level its conscious self planed process. At the top it is an option.

Thank you Kardec:

Interesting point regarding an advanced soul needing more planning. It makes sense to me, because such a soul is more likely to be in touch with guidance, have more energetic work done, and perhaps have more milestone moments.

brilliant and an interesting read Kardec  :)

Augoeideian


Thanks for the claricafication.


About the time between reincarnations it is not a “hard rule” due to the fact that in some circumstances the need of reincarnate can’t be delayed, it usually happens when a Soul has had a very disturbed lifetime as a suicide, for instance. The suicide arrives at the “realm two” in a very painful situation due to the injuries He/She has caused “voluntary” to them selves, so in this cases the best medicine is to reincarnate as soon as possible in order to rebuild some very important energy center that were deeply damaged and to alleviate the mind from the guilt feelings due to the natural lack of memorie about the last life time that is natural once reincarnated.

Of course it’s not only a method to heal suicides but several other cases of “soul” disturbs.

Of course a “soul” well balanced would spend some centuries before it get back to the “realm One” in order to let the physical plane to evolve enough. This way it would be able to provide new experiences to be tried.

It’s important to mention that at the non physical realms the “soul” (spirit) has the chance of gathering very important knowledge too. Of course it will provide better chances of success at a next lifetime.

Thanks and love.

Kardec

Thank you for your reply.  You are right we do acquire knowledge in the spiritual realms, I should imagine a different perspective on what we had original thought in the earth realm. Also, you are right that there is no hard rule for the timing of reincarnating.

Realm two does sound like a worrying realm (I understand it to be in the realm of Saturn, if I may add here that Saturn is the place where spirits go that want to start again .. from the beginning, this is one of the realms of Saturn)

I would like to think that the aim of humans right now is to get rid of this realm two!

An example of someone going to realm two would be:

A person that has totally disregard for human life and is still not learning the basic lesson of respecting life. This person is allowing himself to be used by malefic spirits.  This person is a murderer, for example.

When this person dies he will immediately find that he is in a cold, dark, ugly place - this surrounding is from his thought energies that have created his own afterdeath reality.

If he was particularly 'bad' he would find that he has become a creature, an animal that walks on four legs.  Again his own reality created by him.

Angels are there, talking to him a few home truths about himself and the Laws of Creation. He initially cowers and growls at them from a corner.  However, the light from the Angels and the Sun begin to penetrate his heart and slowly he starts to come out of the corner.

He starts to think to himself 'what have I done to deserve this' .. the Angels talk him through his past life and he begins to realise 'I shouldnt have done that and that' .. he begins to feel remorseful for his actions.

Upon this realisation he finds that the dark, drab surrounding is starting to get a bit of colour in it, he can even vaguely hear music in the distance.
It is getting warming, he feels the rays of the Sun.

And so the therapy begins with the Angels and through his understanding of the wrongness he has caused he eventually pulls himself up onto two legs and is transformed into a person.

His reality is now brighter and he wishes to go back to the person he murdered and say sorry and make ammends.  

He cannot live with himself, although his surroundings have improved his heart is heavy. He knows he has to do something about it.

With the Angels, the application is put in for a transfer to earth and when the time is right.  He comes back to earth and 'co-incidentially' saves the person he murdered from a drowning, for example.
Although this might take many incarnations before it happens and it might not happen.  He might save someone else from drowning or he might wish to come back as a paramedic who saves lives.

This is a hardbase value example of how a reincarnation works (from realm two .. the darkest of realms)

Kardec .. would you agree with what I have said?
It might sound like sci-fi fantasy to DocM and Spitfire ....  :)


May your thoughts be filled with love.

Despite some Cultural diferences I agree 100% with your thought. Of course there are some "technical" details but they don't matter here.

We share very similar knowledge.

Love.

Thank you Kardec, it sounds like we do  :)

"Twas worth the furious gazing and the pains to see Heaven's beauty, beauty that seemed like God - God who was yet unknown, and the rich majesty of Night, who weaves her web with rapid light, though it be less than Sun's, and of the other mysteries in turn that move in Heaven, with ordered motions and with periods of times, with certain hidden influences bestowing order on the things below and co-increasing them"

Hi My nephew john is autistic . Hes 20 yrs old now . His world is strange all he keeps saying is he wants to go back in time . He is so fixed on this . If he hears the numbers 39 and 36 he crys and really gets upset . Iwas just wandering if he choose this life before he was born whats he exactly  well his spirit is trying to learn from this .He is very loving though and he loves you to show him love . Perhaps thats what hes here for to know real love . Just a thought . G od bless juditha

On the nature of Re-incarnation (aka 'existential seriality') then, because for there have been various, diverse views expressed on the true nature of Re-incarnation, including on other threads on this forum, the following is my contribution to the discussion :


On how Reincarnation of the individual soul works, across the fabric of space and time; and how Karma is worked through (ie. the function of karma) in the process of Incarnation and Reincarnation :

http://infinity.usanethosting.com/Heart.Of.God/WayOfKarma/index.htm



On how, as the soul evolves, it has greater participation in the planning of his/her own existential program (or 'life-script') for the upcoming lifetime - see "Retrocognitions" pg 60-87 :

http://infinity.usanethosting.com/Heart.Of.God/IAC/index.htm

wrote on Mar 9^th, 2006 at 11:08am:

Hi My nephew john is autistic . Hes 20 yrs old now . His world is strange all he keeps saying is he wants to go back in time . He is so fixed on this . If he hears the numbers 39 and 36 he crys and really gets upset . Iwas just wandering if he choose this life before he was born whats he exactly  well his spirit is trying to learn from this. He is very loving though and he loves you to show him love. Perhaps thats what hes here for to know real love. Just a thought . God bless juditha

Dear Juditha,

Your intuitive understanding is beautifully accurate.

Hilarion on Autism :
http://infinity.usanethosting.com/Heart.Of.God/Hilarion/Hilarion_on_Autism.gif

Hilarion statements about Autism are very aligned with my experiences about such physical/spiritual desease.  Love is the best medicine here.

One incarnation like that can make great changes to a spirit look of the live.

Hi Thanks for all your replys about john. Love and god bless you all . Juditha

   ASTRAL MEMORY AND THE ILLUSION OF
   REINCARNATION

a. The Nature of Hidden Astral Memory Fusion:

Through years of astral exploration, Swedenborg discovered that the spirits who are with us can access everything in our memories.  This is not something they do consciously.  It comes to them automatically whenever they are with us.  They may even think that the memories are their own:

"Angels who talk with us do not talk in their own language...but in our own language, or in some other language with which we are acquainted.  This is so because when angels speak with us, they turn themselves to us and connect themselves with us.  This connection...causes the two to be in like thought since our thought stays with our memory, and this is the source of our speech...;  The angel enters the person's entire memory, so that the angel is scarcely conscious that he does not himself know whatever that person knows, including his languages ("Heaven and Hell" 246)."

Discarnate humans in the heavens (= angels) understood and agreed with Swedenborg about this process, but "spirits" or humans confined to "the World of Spirits" (= Focus 25-26) were unwilling to believe this because it would precipitate a belief system crash causing them to reject reincarnation.  Quoting "Heaven and Hell",

"When I also talked about this with spirits, they were unwilling to believe that it is the [other] person that speaks, insisting that they spoke in that person, also that his knowledge is their knowledge and not the person's knowledge, consequently that everything that person knows is from them.  I tried to convince them by many proofs that this is not true, but in vain (246)."

Why haven't R. Monroe, B. Moen, and R. Bruce been able to confirm Swedenborg's repudiation of the reincarnational perspective to which he was exposed in the World of Spirits?  In my view the answer probably lies in this simple fact: Unlike Swedenborg, Monroe, B. Moen, and R. Bruce have very limited experience in the 2 higher heavens.

b. The Elusive Law against Hidden Memory Fusion:

Under normal conditions, spirits and angels who are astrally connected with us can access our memories, but we cannot access theirs.  If we do, then we have memories of things we have never seen or heard and create the illusion of past reincarnations.  So it violates a spiritual law for a spirit or angel to speak to us from his own memory.
Swedenborg warns" I've been allowed to learn this from direct experience ("Heaven and Hell" 256)."

Swedenborg then explains that the false doctrine of reincarnation is prompted by spirits who violate this law during their hidden bonding with incarnate and discarnate humans.  Since these connecting spirits typically have a character and values similar to our own, it is likely that people who have false past life memories would see their own personality mirrored in these past lives.

The problem of enforcing this law against stealthy memory fusion needs further clarification.  But the operation of this law may explain the communication problems experienced by Robert Bruce during his attempts to converse with visitors to an astral Healing Center.  Let me illustrate this with 2 quotes from his Astralpulse website article entitled "Astral Rest and Recovery Areas":  

"Spirits I have spoken with in this situation do not seem to be aware of the length of time that has elapsed since they passed over, or of many details concerning their afterlife since that time.  Memories of their earthly life also seem vague, much like how a half-forgotten dream is remembered by a living person"

"Many spirits seem to be aware only of their present reality, that of being in the hospital scenario for an indeterminate length of time.  Some spirits, however, do have vague memories of their earthly life, and of coming from other dimensional areas, but have so far given me only very sketchy details.  Often they will speak of a warm, brightly-lit, interesting place where they have many friends and loved ones, but with little more detail than this.  The most common response I get from asking spirits what it's like where they come from is: `It's really lovely there and everyone is so nice.  I don't understand this,  I'm very sorry.  I know it well and can picture it in my head, but I just can't describe it to you."

The confusion and apology of these visiting spirits is probably due to the hidden operation of the law against memory fusion rather than to problems of differential vibration density caused by traveling among various astral planes.  Robert Bruce's belief system is very different from Swedenborg's.  So the coherence of RB's observations with Swedenborg's lends independent support to the truth of these Swedenborgian revelations.

Classic Channeling reveals one way discarnate spirits can circumvent the law against memory fusion.  The deceased F. W. H. Myers offers his solution: "I can build up a likeness of myself [and] send that likeness speeding...to a friend...in tune with me.  Instantly, I appear before that friend, though I am remote from him, and my likeness holds speech...with this friend (Paul Beard, 69)."

This sort of image projection via remote viewing may account for Robert Bruce's frustratingly superficial encounters with astral doctors and nurses: "The doctors and nurses that staff and run these astral hospitals do not seem to be real spirit beings... So far I have not been able to strike up anything resembling a meaningful conversation with any of them.  They seem to be very two-dimensional in nature."  

I suspect that there are other ways for advanced discarnates to conceal their memories during astral encounters with us.   Perhaps, there are various degrees of soul bonding that can only be mastered with advanced training.  Astral travelers sometimes come across their deceased loved ones with their backs turned.   Perhaps, this is one means of avoiding the outlawed memory fusion caused by fully "turning to us."  More research is needed to solve this question.

Don

Hi Berserk

Your worthy comments and imput into this subject is appreciated.

I understand what Swendenborg is saying and can offer further clarification on this stage of Man's history from the research that Steiner has done.  

The question that will take many further questions; is - Illusion of memory.  Illusion - what is Illusion and what is real in the Mind of Man?  

For now I would like to seperate Reincarnation from Illusion in my reply.  Reincarnation, according to Steiner is not an Illusion.

The Illusion aspect comes from a period in our history called 'the old moon period' as told below-

A new era in human evolution started during the 15th century - intellectual thinking developed. Before the 15th century people were thinking in a different way.

Their thinking was very vivid and concrete, immediately bound up with the objects of the world around them.  They were more bound up with the feelings and will impulses that can be experienced in the human soul.

We today are inclined to think with the intellect and we have come to believe that people have always been thinking like this.

Before the 15th century; man's soul was active in a way that was definitely dreamlike, consisting of dream images.  Today when our soul is active in thought we find ourselves isolated within the world - the world outside us has its own processes.  We see the clouds, we think about them, but we do not feel that the powers alive in the clouds are also alive in our thinking.

The human ancestor said 'I am part of the universe; the power that pulses within me as I evolve images is the same power that is alive and active in the forming of clouds. He felt himself part of the existing world; he knew that this existing world contained more than just abstract forces of nature.  He knew that power was also wielded by enitities that differed from human beings, entities that did not have a physical body such as the human body was at that stage of evolution. The human beings felt that they had citizenry of the universe in common with these entities; he felt himself to be in communion with the entities and nature spirits.

For the human ancestor it was natural for him to say what happened outside himself was of the will impulses of the spirits.
Today we say the earth attracts the bodies that are on it due to the law of gravity; this is our law of nature.  When we speak of nature we base ourselves on such abstract notions. The human ancestor knew that an essential spiritual element was present in the phenomenon we have made into an abstract gravitational force.

The human ancestor period is called the Old Moon stage of our evolution.  What was it that made human beings grow independent of the guidance of spirits which whom they had felt at one?

Now we need to have a firm grasp of this change in human development.  This development happened when the mineral kingdom became part of human nature.  In those far distant times, human beings did not yet have the mineral knigdom with them.  Their organisation would not have been perceptible to our present-day sense organs.

(It must be understood when we say the intellect develop at the 15th c. this has been millennia of evolution)

To grasp this development we need to consider what it truly means when an organism includes the mineral kingdom.  We look at a mineral, a stone, and quite rightly consider it to be the way it presents itself to our observation.  Then however, we look at a plant in exactly the same way we look at a stone.  In reality it is not the actual plant we see.  A plant is really something entirely beyond sensory perception.

Consider a system of forces that in a sense has the quality of an image.  Its relationship to the mineral kingdom is that this otherwise invisible organisation soaks up the mineral kingdom and the forces that are active between individual component elements in the kingdom.

I have a plant before me.  It is an invisible system of forces that absorbs mineral principles from the mineral kingdom.  The result is that the mineral aspect occupies the space also occupied by the invisible system of forces.  I see this mineral aspect, though it is merely something the plant, which is not preceptible to the senses, has absorbed.  When we talk about plants today we are really talking only of the mineral contained within them and not about the plants themselves.

It is important that we clearly understand this in the case of a plant, for it also applies to animals and humans, only more so.

Based on the fact that human beings have received a mineral body into them; as evolution progressed the mineral human body provided the basis for intellectual thinking.The mineral kingdom had the function to transform this pre-earthly form of thinking into our earthly way of forming ideas on the basis of thought.

Within the great scheme of things the spirits with whom human beings had to feel themselves connected, in forming those ideas that were images in the distant past, were then relieved of their function.  We will have to picture those spirits rather differently from the way we are accustomed to picture non-human entities.

Now; the spirits who influenced the thinking in images which human beings had at the time of the Old Moon lost that function in the normal progress of human evolution but are not prepared to accept this with good grace.

We might ask why they do not submit to the will of the gods who guide normal progress.  They simply do not.  We have to accept this as a fact. These spirits are refered as luciferic spirits.  They are constantly trying to influence our thoughts and make them dependent on impulses similar to those that existed in pre-earthly times (pre-mineral that is) Also on the one hand mankind is open to luciferic influences and on the other to ahrimanic spirit influences (ahrimanic spirit influences arose from further development and may be discussed at a later stage)

Therefore it is necessary for us to tear ourselves away from our subjective feelings and be objective.
We shall not be able to attain to the higher worlds and the knowledge to be gained there if we do not train ourselves in rigid adherence to the facts of the external world.  If we do not do so the luciferic element will enter into our thinking.

Okay a brief history of our development. Thanks to Rudolf Steiner.  Which corresponds more or less to what Swedenborg is saying.  Do you agree Beserk?

So .. Illusion, what is real and what is illusionary?
I know the luciferic, and the ahrimanic, spirits live in the Astral regions (see my posting of 'understanding the astral realm' under the topic Seances) and we must be careful of any information coming from this region.

But, Steiner further tells us that now our intellectual thinking has developed (to include our Ego) we now have to awaken our previous state of being in communion with the Spiritual spirits.

The Spiritual spirits are not the luciferic spirits of the past.  The Spiritual spirits have always existed, the luciferic spirits were only a part of a stage of evolution.

Reincarnation is not part of this illusionary dilemma.

So the question is ... what is an illusionary spirit and what is a Spiritual spirit?

This is the point where I am in my studies (I study by myself with no groups, organisations etc.)

eh .. it is complex to be sure!  Berserk your thoughts?  


Love.