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Message started by Berserk on Jan 26th, 2006 at 8:49pm

Title: The Morgue
Post by Berserk on Jan 26th, 2006 at 8:49pm
On my recent visit to my parents in south central British Columbia, I heard about an amazing paranormal event that happened to John, a member of my parents' church.  Some here might find this experience inspirational; so I've decided to post it now and revise it when I learn more details.

John's wife Helen testified to the incident in question to the pastor's wife.  John had been killed in a serious auto accident.   The ambulance paramedics discovered that he had no vital signs (no breathing, hearbeat, or pulse) and John was later examined and pronounced dead by the medical examiner.  Helen was not in the car, but was summoned to the morgue to identify the body.

When the sheet was removed from John's face, she immediately confirmed his identity but asked for some private moments with him.    Suddenly, for no apparent reason, she felt an impulse to pray for his recovery.  She continued her intercession for two hours.   I have prayed over the dead myself, but only for about 5 minutes because I had no expectation of an imminent physical "resurrection."  After two hours of prayer, John suddenly came back to life and has now recovered from his injuries!

I wanted to talk with Helen personally, but my uncle in Toronto died and I was forced to leave B.C. prematurely to attend the funeral.  I hope my parents can contact Helen and get answers to these four questions:

(1) For how many hours was John dead?
(2) How did Helen discover that John had come back to life?  Did she hear him groan or see him suddenly start breathing or make some sort of movement?
(3) Did John have any memories of the period during which he was dead?  Did he have an NDE?
(4) How long did it take for him to recover from his injuries?  Was there a healing miracle as well?  

This is a delicate matter because charismatic Christians often dislike critical examination of their paranormal experiences and have no desire to establish their credibility to anyone.  In their circles, such apparent miracles seem commonplace.  But I will gently press for some answers.

I have heard of several Christian cases like this before, but this is the first case where I potentially have a chance to question the principals.  I will keep you posted if I learn more.   On my trip I also contacted people who experienced "miracles" that I've previously posted on this site.  When I return to this site for more regular posting on March 1, I will report the additional details I have gleaned from those other paranormal experiences.

Don

Title: Re: The Morgue
Post by Vicky on Jan 27th, 2006 at 1:49am
Thanks for sharing this with us Don.  Your critical approach in questioning the details of this event are just what I would expect from you.  I have no doubt that these experiences are brought to your attention because of your analytical ability to investigate them for proof of the paranormal.  Thanks for keeping us updated--I can't wait to hear the answers to those questions.  

Love,
Vicky

Title: Re: The Morgue
Post by Bud_S on Jan 27th, 2006 at 6:13pm
This is fascinating Don!  I look forward to any results you get from your investigation.  I just wonder... how much time must elapse before a NDE becomes a DE!  Assuming 3 hours minimum (1 hour for accident and 2 hours praying), the guy could have had rigor mortis and been close to room-temp by then.  This will be very interesting.

Title: Re: The Morgue
Post by bets on Jan 28th, 2006 at 11:27am
(This will be redundant if earlier posts, incl Doc M's and mine which were lost during the site reorganization, are restored.)
Has science caught up with mystics at all in this area about the process of death?  What if science can develop instruments sensitive enough to determine which stage of quasi-semi-death a soul is in? Are they working on this?
How far into the process does a soul go before he can't turn around and come back to earth? Tibetans know that death takes days of on-earth time.
Eskimos can't talk about snow without using their complete snow vocabulary, but down here we're stuck with basically one word. Bruce and Robert Monroe's codes are effective but may not catch on for those who think words need more poetic form.--Have any of you made up your own words for the different realms?  Maybe science would buy in and we could all speak the same language describing the same worlds.
bets

Title: Re: The Morgue
Post by spooky2 on Jan 28th, 2006 at 10:40pm
Thanks Don, I'll too watch out for your future posts. It would be very interesting indeed to get some more details about it, because the more detailed a report is, the more credible it is (at least for me).
Spooky

Title: Re: The Morgue
Post by deanna on Jan 30th, 2006 at 4:16pm
what an amazing story don i was really intrigued by it cant wait to read those answers when you get them  its further proof  to people                 that their is definitley a god and he truly exists the power of prayer is truly amazing deanna

Title: Re: The Morgue
Post by DocM on Jan 30th, 2006 at 4:37pm
My previous statements about the medical facts and implications of this report was deleted.  I may repost it - not sure.  Clearly more information is needed.  

The power of prayer is strong and documented in the medical world in blinded studies.  We must decide to whom we owe the honor of the miracle though.  As Dave and I have remarked, many see on this board see man/woman as a co-creator with God.  Of course the concept of God is so much greater, and most of us are so very fallible and are striving for the divine but failing along the way.

There is a concept of divine grace; a miracle occuring from outside the realm of human intent.  If this is a true miracle (and this is a big if, since it is only hearsay at this point), did a human being create this miracle (a grieving widow) as a co-creator with God, or was it divine grace alone?

The question may seem moot, since both are miraculous, but I think it a key issue to see where man is in relationship to the universe.

Matthew

Title: Re: The Morgue
Post by Berserk on Mar 19th, 2006 at 8:07pm
In early February I E-mailed Helen's pastor in the hope of getting more information about this astounding answer to prayer.  Her pastor was forced to delay his reply because of an extended trip to Ethiopia.  Had I known he was going to Ethiopia, I would have asked him for an update on the Muslim mullah who was dying of AIDs, but who was cured through a hospital apparition of a radiant Jesus and was consequently converted to Christianity. Since then, this mullah has converted 3 mosques into churches through miracles like raising the dead and visions directing Muslims to hear his testimony.  

Unfortunately, Muslims are trying to sue him to regain their mosques and his missionary zeal has caused him to neglect his marriage to the point where his wife was threatening to divorce him.  Helen's pastor would have visited him in Ethiopia and I would have loved an update on both this Mullah's progress as a Christian missionary and the resolution of these problems.  Sigh!

In any case, Helen's pastor has at long last replied to my four questions posted below.  He visited Helen again and presented my questions to her:
 
(1) Did John have any memory of the period in which was apparently dead--perhaps a spiritual experience?  Answer: John apparently has no memory of the time he was unconscious.

(2) For how many hours was John actually "dead"?
Answer: Approximately two hours.

(3) How did Helen know that John was again alive?
Answer: Helen's prayer vigil was interrupted by John's sudden movement and groaning.

(4) Did John recover immediately, perhaps in a healing miracle--or did he need surgery to help him recover?  Is John in good health today?
Answer: As great a miracle as John's return to life seems, John received no additional healing miracle.   He needed surgery for his grave injuries and there are some lingering health effects to this day.   But thank God John is alive and able to function well in the world!

Just think about it! John is killed in a violent car crash.  He is pronounced dead and taken to a morgue.  His wife is called in to remove the sheet covering his corpse and identify it.  She asks permission to spend time alone with John and unexpectedly feels prompted to pray beside him for two hours.  Then John suddenly returns to life.  Frankly, I wish the answers to my 4 questions were equally melodramatic.  But at least now I've been able to confirm this miracle through indirect contact with Helen herself.

Don


Title: Re: The Morgue
Post by spooky2 on Mar 19th, 2006 at 8:18pm
Well nothing is impossible it seems...or at least this is an approach to look at life.
Spooky

Title: Re: The Morgue
Post by Lucy on Mar 19th, 2006 at 9:54pm
Unless the crash occurred outside the emergency room door, he must have been dead greater than two hours.

time=crash + emergency response + wife getting to hospital/morgue + two hours alone with husband

we have some great emergency teams here but they do act in finite time

but that should make the story more impressive

Title: Re: The Morgue
Post by Berserk on Mar 19th, 2006 at 10:00pm
Lucy,

Good point!  I think Helen meant it was two hours before she got to the morgue.  Since she prayed for two hours, John would supposedly have been dead for 4 hours.

Don

Title: Re: The Morgue
Post by Marilyn Maitreya on Mar 19th, 2006 at 10:29pm

Quote:
(1) Did John have any memory of the period in which was apparently dead--perhaps a spiritual experience?  Answer: John apparently has no memory of the time he was unconscious.


Most of the time, those who have NDE's don't have any memory of them for quite awhile. Sometimes it takes years for the memories to come to them. Perhaps at some time in the future he will remember.

Love, Mairlyn ;-)

Title: Re: The Morgue
Post by Berserk on Mar 19th, 2006 at 10:43pm
Marilyn,

Yes, it would be interesting to see what John might recall about his "dead period" through hypnotic regression.

Don

Title: Re: The Morgue
Post by betson on Mar 20th, 2006 at 12:16pm
Don,
Your search for this one miracle has led you to many more, 4 involving the mullah, and those you've reported since John's story began. Besides being your search, it has become one for all of us who read your postings.  
So like the loaves and fishes, it just keeps multiplying! Thank you!
bets

Title: Re: The Morgue
Post by TheDonald on Apr 27th, 2017 at 3:05am
A couple of weeks ago, I heard an unforgettable talk by a Pastor Jason Hubbard from Bellingham, WA., one of the least religious cities in the USA.  Jason had persuaded several pastors to sign their people up for an hour of prayer so that prayer was being offered 24/7.  The results? 

(1) 80 new churches in just a few years;
(2) The churches prayed for social issues like abortion.  The result?  Previously for every young woman visiting an abortion clinic there were 50 abortions for every girl who chose to carry her baby to term.  Now a recent study showed that only 2 abortions were carried out for every girl who  carried her baby full term. 

(3) Jason made a remarkable confession in connection with a miracle account.  His wife has a brain tumor that has only gotten worse after his frequent intercessory prayer.  Yet, buoyed up by his church's incessant praying, he felt divinely called to pray for a dying woman at a Bellingham hospital because he felt an inner assurance that she would be healed.  He didn't know much about the couple, except that they weren't religious at all.  When he met the husband, he learned that doctors were about to unplug the ventilator due to his wife' s organ failure.  She would soon be off to the morgue.  Nevertheless, Jason asked for permission to pray for her and the husband agreed.

Jason blew the husband's mind by what he did next.  He walked up to the unconscious woman and didn't really pray at all.   Instead, he proclaimed, "In the name of Jesus, rise up and walk!"  She immediately arose, gloriously healed, and within a few days was back at work!  The hospital staff were hysterical with awe and amazement.  Jason later admitted that he was afraid to tell the husband about his confidence that she would be healed.  After all, Jason's prayers did nothing for his own wife and he was afraid of looking really foolish.  Jason is confident that the miracle was made possible by the 24/7 prayer vigils of his church members. 

Title: Re: The Morgue
Post by TheDonald on May 16th, 2017 at 9:53pm
The late Smith Wigglesworth (1859-1947) is probably the greatest Pentecostal faith healer of all time.  A converted plumber, Smith was one crude dude--not a man with a style to be imitated.  Kenneth Copeland received this following account of a miraculous resurrection from the dead from an eyewitness pastor who was present.  The miracle has been researched and written up in books by and about Wigglesworth.  Please overlook Copeland's melodramatic style and consider the wonder of what he is reporting: 

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=smith+wigglesworth+raises+the+dead&view=detail&mid=2EFA41A5E5ABEF55565E2EFA41A5E5ABEF55565E&FORM=VIRE

For a survey of Wiggleworth's faith journey and the impact of his minister, watch this video:

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=smith+wigglesworth+documentary+youtube&view=detail&mid=03F959FE821579E64A8A03F959FE821579E64A8A&FORM=VIRE

Title: Re: The Morgue
Post by SourceLover2 on May 17th, 2017 at 12:49am
  Interesting account Don!  I've come to understand that if an individual opens up enough to Source and Love Consciousness, then anything that is positive and constructive-creative can occur.  There are no limits when one channels our inner Source Consciousness in a pure and powerful way. 

  Here is a recent account from our little sphere of life. I have an acquaintance I see fairly often.  He has a co-worker who was horribly crushed by a heavy pallet and pallet moving machine. She was rushed to the hospital and was in a coma on life support.  From the way he described it, it sounded like she was really mangled and broken. He didn't think she would make it and thought it would probably be a mercy if she died.

    He told us about it the day after it happened.  As he was telling me about it, I (silently) went within and prayed and said, "Purely Creative Forces, if it is within your Will, please send her healing energy".   This happened a little less than a month ago. 
   
    Not long ago, he told me that he found out that is co-worker was now conscious, at home and receiving medical care at home!  He is an atheist, skeptical of all spiritual, nonphysical type stuff.  I casually slipped in that this sounded like a mini miracle, and surprisingly, he agreed (I didn't mention my prayer for her--I assume that she was probably helped by a collective of prayers anyways).

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