Many times my dad, who is a Christian, will talk about the Kingdom of God on the earth coming and the return of Jesus Christ.

Whenever I hear him say that, I get the image of billions of astral spirits walking around the earth, everyone enjoying each other, beautiful people kissing and holding hands, bright pretty colors, pretty flowers and mountains, many animals playing and cuddling, bright sunny days and lucid dream enviornments projected by the astral spirits. In short, I think of the movie What Dreams May Come 100X over right on the earth plane.

If you can think of the perfect earth... or the Kingdom of God ruling the earth in the future, what do you think it would be like? :) :D Thanks.

Your version sounds pretty good, Ryan.
I'd like to add to that vision some translucent images--water and liquids in various forms like waterfalls, ponds, fountains of various types. And maybe being in astral form would lessen the need for gravity so eventually nothing would be as heavy and dense as it is now. Maybe we'd have fewer words, but more communication thru music and telepathy.  
Maybe what the retrievals of lost souls is doing is getting us closer to it. First they clear up those who have had great  fear of death, then they show by example not to fear it anymore--then maybe death itself dissappears, like other fears do when subjected to PUL.
In the meantime I'd like to see that movie you mentionned. Is it on DVD yet?
bets

The christian god is not real. Therefore "his" kingdom will never be.

But for my own kingdom,

I would have, people who spent there lives perfecting and expanding our knowledge of the universe. A place were people did'nt think about themselves as no1, but did whats best for our race.

A place were money, is replaced with drive - a search for the truth beyond all else.

If you can think of the perfect earth... what do you think it would be like? :) :D Thanks.
*****************
FREEDOM. A place where every man is his own
king, a nation unto himself...
AND I'll throw in Spit's observation that money
(and having to work like a donkey for peanuts)
would be unnecessary as well. No more corporate
slave-masters, in other words.
Need I say more?

B-man

I'd say Earth is perfect, right now.

Quote:

Many times my dad, who is a Christian, will talk about the Kingdom of God on the earth coming and the return of Jesus Christ.

IMHO, the return of Christ is not in the physical but the Christ Consciousness which is available to all. This is a matter of raising one's vibrations to the point of being Christ like in thought, word and deed to put it simply. There are many explanations which are basically the same if one does a search on Christ Consciousness on google or any search engine. ;-)

In Spirit of ONE,
Mairlyn ;-)

when the second coming of christ happens the former things will pass away away and it will truly be gods kingdom on earth again no more pain no more sadness no more fear only peace and love for everyone  the second coming will happen and i believe it will happen soon  the earth plain we live on at the moment is getting worse so much killing and hate and destruction the devil likes human suffering so this is all down to him all this suffering in our world  and when our lord takes over satan will be no more  deanna

I love the way...christianity is perverted into mean anything, god killed the egyption kids, because there parents would not listen, so can i get my ak-47 and go have some target pratice around the local school...? because they keep teaching the kids the word of jebus?

spitfire when did god kill the egyptian children i dont  think he did  deanna

wrote on Jan 21^st, 2006 at 1:00pm:

spitfire when did god kill the egyptian children i dont  think he did  deanna

When they refused to let the isralites go....? He slaughtered the eygption kids as a punishment.....the innocent ones.....and if you wanna know some more stuff, the christian god also promotes rape/slavery and another load of wonderful things. Check out this website

http://www.evilbible.com

spitfire dont you read that ever again i dont believe a word of it and you didnt ought to either your only a young man so people play on your vunerability satan will try anything to turn yuou from god and thats what he trying to do here god loves his children its satan what does all those terrible things please believe me i am 50 yrs old i,ve been on this earth longer than you and you are much wiser as you get older not so vunerable to this sort of thing god bless deanna

wrote on Jan 21^st, 2006 at 4:42pm:

spitfire dont you read that ever again i dont believe a word of it and you didnt ought to either your only a young man so people play on your vunerability satan will try anything to turn yuou from god and thats what he trying to do here god loves his children its satan what does all those terrible things please believe me i am 50 yrs old i,ve been on this earth longer than you and you are much wiser as you get older not so vunerable to this sort of thing god bless deanna

Thanks for the laugh deanna.

I can see it upsets you, but it's the truth. The bible aint all laughs.

Also....Your 16..or younger - and most likely from a south american country.....

so you lied, you have SINNED!....now repent! repent! or be dammed!.

Or join me.....and come to the dark side of the force.

i wish i was 16 spitfire but i am as old as i say i am  it did upset me quite a bit really [ evil bible ] i thought it was terrible i hope one day you will change your mind about god you take care i have a son your age as well  god bless deanna

wrote on Jan 21^st, 2006 at 5:18pm:

i wish i was 16 spitfire but i am as old as i say i am  it did upset me quite a bit really [ evil bible ] i thought it was terrible i hope one day you will change your mind about god you take care i have a son your age as well  god bless deanna

Your 16..

The evil bible, is 100% truth. You belive in the bible you gotta ccept the good, the bad and the ugly.

Your young, experience life, question what others tell you. Only then can "you" find truth.

god bless spitfire , take care,promise you wont believe everything  you read like that evil bible  deanna

Deanna said:
spitfire dont you read that ever again i dont believe a word of it and you didnt ought to either your only a young man so people play on your vunerability satan will try anything to turn yuou from god and thats what he trying to do here god loves his children its satan what does all those terrible things please believe me i am 50 yrs old i,ve been on this earth longer than you and you are much wiser as you get older not so vunerable to this sort of thing god bless deanna
*****************
Well, Deanna... I'm 37 y/o and much of the material on that "evil bible" page makes more sense to me today, than it did when I was Spit's age.
When I'm 90 y/o, I hope it will make even MORE sense to me.
Why? Because unlike most people (apparently!) I wasn't gotten hold of by preachers/priests when I was a kid. (I had the good fortune to be raised by a father who despised the very idea of "church" and wouldn't let my mother take me there!)
As a result, I didn't get brainwashed. Nowadays I'm able to see organized religion for the RACKET that it is. And I'd say that puts me among the world's more FORTUNATE people...

B-man

hi b man its up to you what you believe but i will always believe in god  i wasnt brought up to believe in god my dad before he died wasnt a believer or non believer really he kept it mainly to himself it was kind of personal for him my mum still dosent believe but i do i have had my own experiences of the afterlife  ,different things whats happened to prove their is life after death  when i was younger i never thought about god much at all but i have been throgh a lot of not very nice things in my life and i turned to god and i,m glad i didd cause i know he loves me its not him what causes suffering its the other one [satan] what does that      but anyway b man   youve got your beliefs i,ve got mine  deanna

Re: the kingdom of God on earth

I believe the kingdom of God on earth is, right now, in each of our hearts. Remember who we are, that we are human beings who are capable of acts of love limited only to our imagination.

love, blink

Guys, hey, hey. Do we have to make a thing out of this?

Listen. Even if the God of the Old Testament did some bad stuff, Jesus is what's referred to as the New Covenant, okay? (Covenant meaning promise, or agreement.) I believe that God will never, ever do something like that again, if God did it in the first place.

I have my doubts about how true the Old Testament is, but I have no doubt that God is love, whatever form he chooses to take.

Don't listen to people who only say "the truth" in order to fling mud at others - they obviously have their minds pretty shut to "the truth," you know what I mean? Especially since they can't seem to understand the concept of a metaphorical parable. Honestly, atheists. It's all or nothing with those people. "You can't actually move mountains, Jesus lied!" -_- *sigh*

Also: Satan is not a dancing red satyr with a pointy tail and horns. Never forget that. Satan is The Enemy, and it will take the most alluring, beautiful form it can find to worm its way into your heart. The Enemy in itself is not a man - it is not Lucifer, a fallen angel, whatever. It is the essence of hate and pain and fear.

Since we are all a part of God..and all God in actuality, the "kingdom" always has been here..

wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2006 at 5:12pm:

Guys, hey, hey. Do we have to make a thing out of this? Listen. Even if the God of the Old Testament did some bad stuff, Jesus is what's referred to as the New Covenant, okay? (Covenant meaning promise, or agreement.) I believe that God will never, ever do something like that again, if God did it in the first place. I have my doubts about how true the Old Testament is, but I have no doubt that God is love, whatever form he chooses to take. Don't listen to people who only say "the truth" in order to fling mud at others - they obviously have their minds pretty shut to "the truth," you know what I mean? Especially since they can't seem to understand the concept of a metaphorical parable. Honestly, atheists. It's all or nothing with those people. "You can't actually move mountains, Jesus lied!" -_- *sigh* Also: Satan is not a dancing red satyr with a pointy tail and horns. Never forget that. Satan is The Enemy, and it will take the most alluring, beautiful form it can find to worm its way into your heart. The Enemy in itself is not a man - it is not Lucifer, a fallen angel, whatever. It is the essence of hate and pain and fear.

The problem with this is. You can't throw away one half of the bible as un-true, and the other half true. To me thats just simply saying "Oh, i like the whole Jesus-love thing, but not the whole angry wrath of god".

The WHOLE bible was "inspiried" by the holy spirit, One of the Three parts of god. You can't just pick the good parts of the bible, and disregard the other.

The fact is Religion is the bane of man-kind(Along with many other things..). More people have died from religous inspiried wars/ideology than not.

I also heard that the Vatican recently changed, and got rid of "Limbo". wtf? http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0506867.htm

If limbo was just a theory, what else was?

I sure most of you have heard of Leslie Flint, I think he is important, because he willingly went under tests and passed them.

Here is a site with a lot of Direct Voice recording links/info. Oddly enough, alot of these people/spirits talk about how Religious people have the hardest time passing over.

http://www.astralpulse.com/directvoicerecordings.html

wrote on Jan 24^th, 2006 at 1:56am:

The problem with this is. You can't throw away one half of the bible as un-true, and the other half true. To me thats just simply saying "Oh, i like the whole Jesus-love thing, but not the whole angry wrath of god".

Sorry, but says who? I don't care what it says to you, it's my belief. I don't have to justify it to you or anyone, it's between me and God. I didn't say the entire first half of the bible was falsehood. They had a very, very different opinion of what (or who) a God was, and from a historical standpoint it's very questionable. It's important to look at the cultural situation around the times when all the books were written.

They got rid of Limbo because a) they wanted to believe that God was merciful enough to send aborted/stillborn/unbaptized babies to heaven instead of an eternity in limbo, and b) because it was a hypothesis to begin with, and there's no mention of it in the bible. It's strictly Catholic. It has nothing to do with the rest of Christianity, and I applaud them heartily for having the guts to come out and say they were wrong.

The fact is, hate is the bane of mankind. Greed is the bane of mankind. Fear is the bane of mankind. Ideas, concepts and institutions born out of love and the search for knowledge and enlightenment are only a bane when they succomb to one of those three aspects.

my beleif is that we are already living in hell quote the saying hell on earth and when we die we pass over to heaven were there is only love and  beauty which is what god wanted for us on the earth  a lot of it was eves fault she ate the apple from the tree of life in the garden of eden  because she listened to the serpent instead of listening to god which changed everything for mankind god loves us all very much thats why he sent his beloved son jesus to die and suffer on the cross so that we may be saved i could not live my life without god  i love him and ive always beleived in him and we have to resist the devil when he trys to tempt us away from god  i pray to him many times and he always answers my prayers god loves you all god bless you juditha

Dont wanna upset your or anything, but eve never existed, adam never existed and jesus dieing for our sins is the biggest load of cods wallop ever put down on paper.

2 people cannot start a race.
A planet cannot form complex life in 7 days
The 7 day week, never existed until a few thousand years ago, so god did'nt rest on sunday.
The bible is pretty much a book of evil [read www.evilbible.com]

other then that, christianity aint to bad.

spitfire u shouldnt read all that garbage about the evil bible its not true  but i,ve said  that before and i must be getting on your nerves but what i say is true that evil bible is evil in its self and a load of lies deanna

wrote on Jan 31^st, 2006 at 7:30pm:

spitfire u shouldnt read all that garbage about the evil bible its not true  but i,ve said  that before and i must be getting on your nerves but what i say is true that evil bible is evil in its self and a load of lies deanna

What it says is actually in the bible, it does'nt make the stuff up - if you believe in the christian god, you gotta accept the good the bad and the ugly, or you dont believe in god, and make your own book of rules - i would reccomend this option.

wrote on Jan 31^st, 2006 at 5:29pm:

Dont wanna upset your or anything, but eve never existed, adam never existed and jesus dieing for our sins is the biggest load of cods wallop ever put down on paper. 2 people cannot start a race. A planet cannot form complex life in 7 days The 7 day week, never existed until a few thousand years ago, so god did'nt rest on sunday. The bible is pretty much a book of evil [read www.evilbible.com] other then that, christianity aint to bad.

I don't think the bible is inheritly evil, but there were some very evil things that did take place. To me religion is like a really big support group, to make people feel special. Problem is when you have several other forms of generally the same message, it will create conflict, IE: middle east.

I certainly wouldn't take what i read in the bible or in any other religious book with to much seriousness. After all, MAN created religion, not 'god'.

The whole Adam and Eve story is nothing more than a 'folktale', as many of the stories/parables in the bible. To say that you HAVE to follow the bible to get into heaven/eternal life is pretty demanding, especially if you were born or raised in a place where religion did not exsist.

One of my biggest questions is, if religious books/stories did not exsist, would there be the same world wide beliefs? would we believe in a 'god' like depicted in the bible? god trusts that we got the message some thousand years ago?

The bible had a good set of underlined morals, as far as i'm concerned that about all it was. That and a form of entertainment with all of the different stories.

Deanna, those lines are taken straight from the good book. It may not be 'evil' but some bad stuff did 'happen'.

Fundimental religious-types are a dangerous breed so be careful how literal you take everything. Just my two cents.

hi spifire thankyou for your reply i beleive the planet started with a collision but my beilf is that god took our planet over after a while to create life by that i mean people and animals because if it was all down to the planet createing life then we wouldnt have a spirit only god could have created spirit  not the planet we were made in gods image god lives inside of us hes everywhere  the sky trees flowers etc without his love this planet would be a evil place to live on beleive in god spitfire  he loves you even though you dont beleive  he sees whats in your heart he sees the true you like he does all of us we cant say this and that to god because he knows if we truly mean it  god bless juditha

wrote on Feb 1^st, 2006 at 10:20am:

hi spifire thankyou for your reply i beleive the planet started with a collision but my beilf is that god took our planet over after a while to create life by that i mean people and animals because if it was all down to the planet createing life then we wouldnt have a spirit only god could have created spirit  not the planet we were made in gods image god lives inside of us hes everywhere  the sky trees flowers etc without his love this planet would be a evil place to live on beleive in god spitfire  he loves you even though you dont beleive  he sees whats in your heart he sees the true you like he does all of us we cant say this and that to god because he knows if we truly mean it  god bless juditha

Can you send me your address? i know a good brain washing re washer, who can save you!

We evolved from apes, how this happened is open to interpretation.

God loves no one, because he does not exist, in any form which holy books describe anyway.

Free yourself from the church's hold upon thee! cast out the demon which is religon and be saved!

Your 16, young and frisky go experience life, have fun - judge yourself and dont be judged.

Juditha,

Like Chumley, Spitfire is virtually illiterate about biblical teaching.   After developing my new thread on mediumship, I will make constructive use of both as my whipping boys for a new thread based on a collection of their many erroneous claims.    >:(   Meanwhile, let them tremble in ominous anticipation.  ;D

Don  

There is little to be gained by trashing anyone's beliefs or religion.  The literal interpretation of a text, if found to be inconsistent does not disprove a religion.

There is even less to be gained by trashing individuals on this board.  Don, if you would like to address the criticisms leveled against christianity by Chumley and Spitfire, I think it would make an interesting thread (though like JD Howes, I think it would likely belong in the off topic area unless it dealt directly with the afterlife).  

Me, I don't think that this debate about the nature of the old or new testament and the inconsistencies therein is going to make me a more spiritually advanced person.  I believe in God because I feel that God is.  If someone on evilbible.com points out that in this passage they talk of incest or in that passage, they condone the destruction of an entire city of innocents as "God's will," I don't think that either disproves the existence of God, or proves a darn thing.

So bring it on, hash it out.  Will this be enlightening?  I'm not so sure.


Matthew

Matthew,

The post about Chumley was meant in jest.  But both Chumley and Spitfire routinely ridicule other people's beliefs, especially those of Christians.   For this, they are never deleted--evidence of a double moderating standard.   New Agers here often overlook or chime in on these invectives, but object to anyone who gives the attackers a taste of their own medicine and does so with clinical rationality.   As the saying goes, if you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.  

In the quest for afterlife knowledge, people need to be taught the need to acknowledge their limitations--i. .e. the line between what they do and don't know.  I will not resort to insults or name-calling.  But for the benefit of those Chumley and Spitfire attack, I will confront them in the future with the inadequacies of their claims, and do so in a manner relevant to the purpose of this site.  

Don

In that case Don,

This may be quite enlightening.  But most advanced souls on this board do not so readily dismiss any major religion or religious text summarily.  Simultaneously, people here seem to want not to blindly follow a path carved out for them in an ancient text without the personal experience and affirmations that come along the way.


M

Once again, don the mighty passes judgement based on "his" views.

maybe they wer'nt deleted because you were wrong? but dont worry, i know that cant be the case.

Im open to proof god exists, tell me how to meet him, give me a location and time, a place, i'll be there.

Your storys about jesus healing a heathen muslim, aint gonna convert me to christianity, it's the same as a nazi healing a jew, the jew aint gonna become a nazi.

The bible is full of contradictions, fact. Heres a few

Theological doctrines:

    1. God is satisfied with his works
        Gen 1:31
       God is dissatisfied with his works.  
        Gen 6:6
    2. God dwells in chosen temples
        2 Chron 7:12,16
       God dwells not in temples
        Acts 7:48
    3. God dwells in light
        Tim 6:16
       God dwells in darkness
        1 Kings 8:12/ Ps 18:11/ Ps 97:2
    4. God is seen and heard
        Ex 33:23/ Ex 33:11/ Gen 3:9,10/ Gen 32:30/ Is 6:1/
         Ex 24:9-11
       God is invisible and cannot be heard
        John 1:18/ John 5:37/ Ex 33:20/ 1 Tim 6:16
    5. God is tired and rests
        Ex 31:17/ Jer 15:6
       God is never tired and never rests
        Is 40:28
    6. God is everywhere present, sees and knows all things
        Prov 15:3/ Ps 139:7-10/ Job 34:22,21
       God is not everywhere present, neither sees nor knows all      
       things
        Gen 11:5/ Gen 18:20,21/ Gen 3:8
    7. God knows the hearts of men
        Acts 1:24/ Ps 139:2,3
       God tries men to find out what is in their heart
        Deut 13:3/ Deut 8:2/ Gen 22:12
    8. God is all powerful
        Jer 32:27/ Matt 19:26
      God is not all powerful
        Judg 1:19
    9. God is unchangeable
        James 1:17/ Mal 3:6/ Ezek 24:14/ Num 23:19
       God is changeable
        Gen 6:6/ Jonah 3:10/ 1 Sam 2:30,31/ 2 Kings 20:1,4,5,6/
         Ex 33:1,3,17,14
    10. God is just and impartial
         Ps 92:15/ Gen 18:25/ Deut 32:4/ Rom 2:11/ Ezek 18:25
        God is unjust and partial
         Gen 9:25/ Ex 20:5/ Rom 9:11-13/ Matt 13:12

Theres hundreds more, and yes theres the typical argument of the book was written by man..

The full bible was written by man, you cant tell whats right and whats wrong, so you either believe a full section of the bible, or you dont. Picking and choosing bits you like, is just being hypocritical.

Unless you can prove, sections of the bible, by re-creating events described there?

If you pray for a mountain to move and it does, believe you and me, i would be down to church ever sunday.

You go, Spitfire!  Unloading on that in a pre-emptive strike or multiple like Bush against Iraq.  I don't know what poor Donald will do.  Still, when the dust settles, will anyone's opinion of the bible be any different?

M

wrote on Feb 1^st, 2006 at 4:56pm:

You go, Spitfire!  Unloading on that in a pre-emptive strike or multiple like Bush against Iraq.  I don't know what poor Donald will do.  Still, when the dust settles, will anyone's opinion of the bible be any different? M

I doubt that my friend, religous fanatics only stop beliving in god, when something bad happens in there lifes, hardcore skeptics need a personalised 100% pucca miracle to convert to christianity.

Each are rare, therefore no mans land remains forever active.

But, at least im fighting for myself and my own beliefs, and not having someone force me over the top  8)

when mt dad died my world fell apart but i didnt blame god for it i remember i said a prayer to god and in that prayer i said "im happy that dads with you god in your kingdom of heaven i love you god very much but im just a little bit jealous because hes with you and not with me god helped me get through my greif gods loves us all  juditha

Spit, thanks for the additional ammunition for your eventual reckoning.   Ha! I can feel your terror in your incoherent ravings. ;D   Bone up! You'll need it, my friend!  Though you are an ex-boxer, I'll wager that you don't even realize that Muhammad Ali is the most overrated heavyweight champion of all time.  I'll straighten you out on that score too.

Don

I don't see how it's possible to straighten someone out, when it comes to interpeting a text that is over a thousand years old.

The problem with the bible is there are alot of contradictions, it's an old book. It can be pretty much taken literally, generally, or even not at all, and there are many points in between.

It's like any other book or work of art, 10 people will look at it, and they will each come up with 10 different ideas about it.

Who is right? Who is wrong? It's up in the air, none of us will know until we die, plain and simple. (unless radical progess is made)

It's one man/womens word against another, thats why i don't like organized religion.

It's to easy to be conditioned/brainwashed, MOST religious beliefs don't change much since childhood when most are introduced.(when they're brains are like a sponge.)

I think it should be a personal thing, religious beliefs have created wars. Granted they can do good things for community, and a sense of togetherness. But, i think there is a fine line that is walked.

From a skeptic's point of view, there has been no significant proof of a All-knowing All-powerfull 'god'. All we have is a few old text, written by men.

I've prayed alot during my childhood, it never really got me anywhere, I wouldn't be a different person today had i not prayed. When I lost my father two years ago, i prayed abit. I felt no connection with an all-knowing all-powerfull being, nothing much came of it. I am however open to the idea of a more  'passive god' or a 'energy source'. I'm not sure though, there is alot of chaos in the universe, but alot of order as well...

But i believe that the christian 'god' does not exsist, this is coming from 17 years of catholic upbringing. I don't see how you can change my mind about truth in the bible, and i don't see how i can change yours.

/rant off

wrote on Feb 1^st, 2006 at 8:09pm:

Spit, thanks for the additional ammunition for your eventual reckoning.   Ha! I can feel your terror in your incoherent ravings. ;D   Bone up! You'll need it, my friend!  Though you are an ex-boxer, I'll wager that you don't even realize that Muhammad Ali is the most overrated heavyweight champion of all time.  I'll straighten you out on that score too. Don

Im still a boxer.

Muhammed ali, had some dam good quality's, show me a boxer which could take a blow better. But he is also an example of what happens to someone who gets sucked into religon.

Terror? look at yourself, i asked you 1 simple question and you cant even answer it, and you've been studying the bible since the jurassic, your the ones who scared bub.

hi spitfire  i think frank bruno was a was a good boxer and nigel benn and chris eubank were my favourites chris eubank used to make me laugh i love a good boxing match on the telly  i always have deanna

Spit,

You claim to have asked me one simple question.  Wrong!  You posed an incoherent array of comments googled from kooky online posters without credentials in the field.  You remind me of a fighter who feigns good defense by racing away from his opponent to avoid specific contact.   But as Joe Louis said, "You can run, but you can't hide."
I will decisively deal with your comments on Christianity in due time.  You know very well that you can only get away with your chirping now because I've made a commitment to development my mediumship thread first.    But your reckoning is coming!

Speaking of boxing, let me clue you in about Muhammad Ali (formerly Cassius Clay).  Ringside experts agree that he really lost his tune-up fight for Sonny Liston, a split-decision win against journeyman Doug Jones.   The Liston fight was scheduled and Ali (Clay) was Olympic champion; so he had to win.   Even George 'Chuvalo had KOd Jones.     To put the 2nd Liston-Clay fight in perspective, it must be noted that Cleveland "Big Cat" Williams had recently broken Liston's jaw without even phasing him before being KOd.  Yet in the 2nd Ali fight, one must replay the tape a few times just to determine that the Ali punch that stopped Liston actually landed.   at best it was a weak love tap.  In the first fight, Liston simply refused for no good reason to come out for round 6.  Both LIston-Clay  fights were tank jobs either because of mob connections or because Liston was drugged out.  Apart from that, Ali never beat any first-rate fighters before his draft problems.  

Joe Frazier was a better fighter than Ali, despite losing 2 of their 3 fights.   Both were in or close to their primes only in their first fight won by Frazier.  After that fight, Frazier's sparring partners admitted that he was only 2/3 of the fighter he was before the Ali fight.  He was a washed-up fighter for Ali-Frazier II and III, and so, twice got quickly KOd by George Foreman.   True, Ali was close to his best longer than Frazier.  But when I evaluate boxers, I ask who was the best at his best.   The answer is Frazier, not Ali.  

Don

wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2006 at 12:12pm:

Spit, You claim to have asked me one simple question.  Wrong!  You posed an incoherent array of comments googled from kooky online posters without credentials in the field.  You remind me of a fighter who feigns good defense by racing away from his opponent to avoid specific contact.   But as Joe Louis said, "You can run, but you can't hide." I will decisively deal with your comments on Christianity in due time.  You know very well that you can only get away with your chirping now because I've made a commitment to development my mediumship thread first.    But your reckoning is coming

Do YOU have the credentials?

I don't see why they would need them, all the simply did was go through the bible and look for exactly contradictions. You don't need a PhD to do that.

I'm not saying that it makes for a GREAT arguement. Most christians will explain all of the direct contradictions as, "God is everything, he is everywhere, in good and bad"

Meh, to me that's a weak explaination. Or at least that was the standard answer i got from most of my Theology teachers and priests.

I made statements, and asked 1 question.

"Unless you can prove, sections of the bible, by re-creating events described there? "

You remind me of a fighter, whos talks big at a press conferance, and does'nt turn up on the day of the fight because of a cold.

im sorry, if you have some handy cap, which stops you from posting on 2 different threads, i did'nt know about it, if you send me the name of this condition i'll go look into the symptoms, so i can better understand this funny ailment.

You forget to mention in the liston fight, ali was blinded by a foriegn substance, once his tears managed to get rid of it, he owned liston, who then gave up and later claimed a dis-located shoulder.

If you compare ali's and fraziers stats

Ali
Total Fights: 61
Wins: 56
lost: 5
Knockouts: 37
Champion: 3 times.

Frazier
Total Fights: 37
Won: 32
Lost: 4
Draw: 1
Champion 1 time.

Frazier had to beat some dam good fighters to get the second and 3rd fights, he was far from washed up, altogether ali had a better career, he fought and won more fights, he held the title 3 times, he used the media and his own confidence/talents to gain fame and he used the fame for cause's to which he believed in. Thats why he's called the champ.

wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2006 at 1:40pm:

Do YOU have the credentials? I don't see why they would need them, all the simply did was go through the bible and look for exactly contradictions. You don't need a PhD to do that. I'm not saying that it makes for a GREAT arguement. Most christians will explain all of the direct contradictions as, "God is everything, he is everywhere, in good and bad" Meh, to me that's a weak explaination. Or at least that was the standard answer i got from most of my Theology teachers and priests.

Dont expect a decent responce, he's a professor of this dull subject, and in turn, expect 90% big words, which dont say anything productive, and also prepare for the crappy insults which are inherent in those who cant prove there arguments without the word "faith".

But i agree, everyone should have there say, those who can reproduce there claims and prove to others there point of view is correct - will win support.

Spit asks, "Do you have the credentials?"  Yes, a Harvard doctorate in Scripture and Judaism.   But I hate it when people try to hide behind their credentials.   Actually, Spit, I like your spunk.  When we finally do engage Scriptural issues, I suggest that you prepare a list of bottom-line issues that turn you off to the Christian faith.  It is easy to get lost in inessentials.  For example, I don't think any of your list of contradictions are genuine when the intent of the orginal languages is taken into account.   But I do acknowledge that the Bible contains contradictions and errors.  I am no Fundamentalist.  I believe in some form of evolution guided by some form of Intelligent Design.

I'm more interested in why you are turned off by the Christian God and Christ.  I suspect you are operating with a distorted caricature that can easily be corrected.  But let's focus on what you deem to be the more basic issues.  

I must admit I enjoy jerking you around, but when we seriously engage the issues, I will be respectful.   In truth, I consider you brighter than your educational level might suggest and I do view your spiritual quest as genuine.  BTW I think you would find atheist Howard Storm's book, ":My Descent into Death" a riveting catalyst for your quest because of its unique qngelic verifications and Jesus' amazing NDE teaching session.
 
Spit, name one good figher beaten by Frazier after his victory over Ali.   Certainly not a washed-up Jerry Quarry, who was KOd by Chuvalo!  You address none of my basic points.  

Ali is overrated.  Don't get me wrong: he was one of the top 5 greatest fighters of all time.  But it is far from clear that he was the greatest as he himself claimed.   The greatest puncher of all time was George Foreman, who quickly KOd Kenny Norton (who beat Ali) and Frazier twice.   I would rate him the best of all time, were it not for the dumb fight he fought aaainst Ali in the Rumble in the Jungle.   Foreman ignored the intense heat and humidity and punched himself out against Ali's rope-a-dope style.   What this means to me is this: the concept of "The best ever fighter" is relative to styles and personal vulnerabilities.   Foreman had a hard time with fast elusive boxers.   Actually, I think that the young Mike Tyson could have beaten Ali.  But like Frazier, he lost his skills very quickly.

Don

P.S., My seminary friend's brother was asked to simulate Ali as Cleveland Williams's sparring partner.  He wasn't a reasonable facsimile!    My Sunday School teacher, Pete Piper fought Chuvalo in his prime and won every round until he was knocked out with one punch in the 4th round.  Chuvalo fought Ali fairly even, but was well past his prime when he did.

Berserk, could you elaborate more upon, "For example, I don't think any of your list of contradictions are genuine when the intent of the orginal languages is taken into account." ?

Are you saying it lost some meaning in translation? I can't recall exactly, but wasn't it translated from Hebrew to Latin orginally? then so on and so on.

Also, i'd like to get your feelings on the seperation of Church and State issues. Do you feel it is right to say things like "God bless America" ? Do you feel it is arrogant of us?

Just a few random thoughts as well. I sort of feel Christianity is feeling like it's loosing it's edge on the main religion in the world. Within the past decade or so it's began to be marketed in a diffrent way, much like a company.

IE: Christian rock groups, and rap singer. I actually had one come to my High school, he said he was on drugs and then one day found hope in jesus(which is good for him). But really it thought it was really funny, maybe it's just my sense of humor. I just think it's really lame to market religion, to market GOD. think about it.

Another thing, with the removal of Limbo, this is a great chance to spread christianity to the poor souls in Africa where the child death rate is very large. Agian Marketing?

They've also come out with 'Modern' Bibles, with present day slang terms.

I just have trouble with things like this, if there is the christian 'god' i would think he would market himself.

It would be a cruel joke for him to put us on this planet, in a position, like Africa, and then give us the set of guidelines to get into heaven, and have us with no knowledge of them. (assuming the old testiment view point of worship, and even some in the new)

If there was no Bible would there be a Christian God today?

Which came first? the chicken? or the egg?

Joe Frazier Beat Jimmy ellis, a former heavy weight title holder with 40 wins 12 losses - this was to get his 3rd chance at ali. After another fight with ali, then foreman then he retired.

It was true, that frazier was'nt as good as he used to be, due to his high blood pressure, but he was still world class, and he was still beaten.

I dont think muhammed ali was the best fighter ever, i think he was the best looking fighter - the way he moved in the ring, the way he took a punch, and i think he used his fame well [for the most part]

By the way, it was black napkin who posted that about you, i was merely quoting him.

ive gotta go out, but i'll make a list of reasons i dont believe in god and christianity when i get back.

Don,

Who could not favor Spitfire for the noble Doberman pinscher picture with perked up ears logo?  It suits him so well.  Although I liked the ranting pill logo waving its arms that he used to have.

Its interesting you have a degree in Judaism, Don.  I have a reform Jewish upbringing, although I am not religious.  Actually many modern Jewish people are open minded with regard to the exact nature of G_d and the afterlife and not at all dogmatic.

I've often found that the prayer in Judaism, the Sh'ma as it is called is great to meditate on.  It goes:
Sh'ma Yisrael, Adonai elohaynuh, Adonai, echad.

"Here  O Israel.  The lord our God, the lord is one."

My interest in consciousness and new age thought only makes this simple phrase/prayer the more meaningful.

Matthew

Morning chaps,

Whats makes me believe god does not exist? i'll just list my basic ideas of why i dont believe he/it does'nt.

1)Evidence that god exists cannot be reproduced.

2)The bible contains 100's of contradictions.

3)Some of the bible storys, we know cannot be fact. Such as adam and eve, creating the earth in 6 days etc.

4)Why would an omnipotent being, need worship? and require worship in exchange for a pleasent afterlife?

5)God cannot be omnipotent, for he cannot make a stone to which he cannot lift.

6)God has to be evil aswell as good, as he punish's man for not living by his rules, therefore nullfying free will.

7)God, as all powerful, chose to create evil. God chose to create suffering, pain, misery... God made us to want to do evil, and yet he demands we deny our nature which he created in order to serve him?

8]Natural evil
Earthquakes, volcanoes, floods, famines, disease, random accidents, the suffering of children and babies, the suffering of innocent people as the result of things that are beyond their control. These are natural evils, the suffering that results because of the nature of nature, therefore god must want us to suffer, these things are beyond our control, and are not punishment for poor judgement, therefore god is immoral- i would'nt put my faith in this kind of being.

9)God sends jesus at a time in our history, when there was no equipment to test is abilitys? He sends jesus who "died" for my sins, but i was'nt even born - so i had no sins for him to die for, thousands of people died each year, yet they did'nt take humanity's sins away when they popped off. Ultimately it was gods fault for there sins.

10)In the bible, god slaughtered the eygption children, innocent's - he interfeared with our free will, and help 1 set of his children and killed the other, thats not a god i wanna worship.

Thats about what i can think of right now, i'll post some more after you read these.

My two cents, SF,

"Why would an omnipotent being require worship?"

See, I think it is more complicated than that.  If we all contain a "god spark," inside us, in some ways, a supreme being which we are part of (whether we recognize it or not) commanding us to worship him, is in effect telling ourselves to aspire to our higher and more noble nature and aspirations.  However, understanding does not come quickly (it hasn't for me).  So initially, it makes sense to live by the golden rule, follow the ten commandments to live together and then, as realization of our true nature comes out, ascend to a higher plane.

"God cannot be omnipotent for he cannot make a stone which he cannot lift."  C'mon Spity, that is a really dumb one.  The notion of God is beyond a physical superman with a long flowing beard.  You are using your own definitions about a being that none of us can completely comprehend.

#6 "God has to be evil aswell as good, as he punish's man for not living by his rules, therefore nullfying free will. "   No, free will is there, or else man would not be able to choose right or wrong action (what Kyo calls cosmoethical action).  God does not punish in reality, as our bad actions with ill intent cause our own bad realities to manifest (you reap what you sow in the world).

I could give my take on all of them, but that is enough for now.  The bible containing contradictions is understandable, as God was not dictating every word.  The message and understanding is what is important, no matter what evangelist preachers say.  

And as far as earthly and divine "evils, and sufferings," many on this board feel that through suffering and acceptance, eventually we reach higher ideals as we overcome obstacles.  Many of these are random, and it does not seem fair, but it simply is.  Acceptance of what is, is a lesson many of us take a long time to learn.

Matthew

Quote:

And as far as earthly and divine "evils, and sufferings," many on this board feel that through suffering and acceptance, eventually we reach higher ideals as we overcome obstacles.  Many of these are random, and it does not seem fair, but it simply is.  Acceptance of what is, is a lesson many of us take a long time to learn.

I'm in the process of writing several articles in line with many of the ideas expressed in this thread and attempting to explain and tie spiritual, philosophical, and scientific theories together based on my own experiences and understanding of these.  

As I wrote these, I had some aha moments that I believe brings some additional clarification to much of new age thought.  ;D

Hope to have this done and online in the next month or so.

Kathy

Kathy,

If you do, I'd love to read the articles - count me in.  But hey, you may have a book in you, and that would be even better.  If you decide to, let me know, because I want to help on the title and maybe an introduction.  

We miss you on this board.  I tried to go to the other board, but then forgot my password, and they wouldn't send it to my email address for some reason.  Weird.    

Best to you,

Matthew

wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2006 at 11:53am:

My two cents, SF, "Why would an omnipotent being require worship?" See, I think it is more complicated than that.  If we all contain a "god spark," inside us, in some ways, a supreme being which we are part of (whether we recognize it or not) commanding us to worship him, is in effect telling ourselves to aspire to our higher and more noble nature and aspirations.  However, understanding does not come quickly (it hasn't for me).  So initially, it makes sense to live by the golden rule, follow the ten commandments to live together and then, as realization of our true nature comes out, ascend to a higher plane. "God cannot be omnipotent for he cannot make a stone which he cannot lift."  C'mon Spity, that is a really dumb one.  The notion of God is beyond a physical superman with a long flowing beard.  You are using your own definitions about a being that none of us can completely comprehend. #6 "God has to be evil aswell as good, as he punish's man for not living by his rules, therefore nullfying free will. "   No, free will is there, or else man would not be able to choose right or wrong action (what Kyo calls cosmoethical action).  God does not punish in reality, as our bad actions with ill intent cause our own bad realities to manifest (you reap what you sow in the world). I could give my take on all of them, but that is enough for now.  The bible containing contradictions is understandable, as God was not dictating every word.  The message and understanding is what is important, no matter what evangelist preachers say.   And as far as earthly and divine "evils, and sufferings," many on this board feel that through suffering and acceptance, eventually we reach higher ideals as we overcome obstacles.  Many of these are random, and it does not seem fair, but it simply is.  Acceptance of what is, is a lesson many of us take a long time to learn. Matthew

Evening matt,

Im only trying to prove, the christian god does not exist - any other type of god, interpretation of god, could be plausable depending upon it's characteristics.

Personally, i think we are all probley just a part of another being, the earth is the cell - the universe the body, and the more humans that come into existance is like the brain creating neuron connections through learning, the more humans the smarter we become.

With my "god cannot make a stone he cannot lift" was to prove theres no such thing as an all powerful being, aka omnipotentancey.

let me ask you, how do you know whats right from wrong? if you were 5 years of age and someone else stuck a gun in your hand, would you fully comprehend the consequences of pulling the trigger? do you deserve to be shot in return because you killed someone because you had a power in your hands you did not understand? If god created us, and is all powerful, and can see the past, present and future, he wanted that kid to shoot someone, for he did not interfear, thus god stood by and let an evil deed take place, thus meaning he condones what we consider evil actions.

I can understand, learning lessons, i do not get pain which is pointless, you can learn what cancers like by living with it for 10 minutes, instead of dying slowley over a few months, which means god [if he exists] wants you to suffer needlessley, unless he/it does'nt exist, and then it just comes down to 80% shit luck.

If you accept things which happen in your life, your destined to live a life of pain. If you fight with conviction and dedication to change your deck of cards, eventually you shall be rewarded, and if you ar'nt at least you have pride, which is somthing that lasts a lifetime.

Spitfire [Is your first name Greg?  I can't recall.]

You raise some good issues in your list in reply #50 and I will reply to them in due time.  You may want to sift through my accidentally reposted thread "God and Destiny: A Repy to Roger."  I reply to some of the issues you raise in various places there.   You and Roger have similar issues.  

I actually visited Roger last summer.  It was weird.  We had communicated for years on this board, and I oddly felt surprised that a real human being was behind all his thoughtful posts!   LOL

In a time of youthful doubt, I once asked a great missionary about the key to his success in experiencing so many miracles.  He gave me a hauntingly unexpected answer.   He said, "I could only grow in faith when I was most willing to become an atheist."  From reading your posts, I'd say you have legitimate and honest grounds for skepticism, especially since you have not yet had powerful experiences of the divine.  Most faith quests soon give way to the pressure of wishful thinking and the need for comfort.  Ruthless honesty can be a key to a spiritual breakthrough as long as one remains genuinely eager for experiences of God's grace and power.  You have checked out mediums and the Ouija board without impressive results.  But in my view, the mere fact that you tried demonstrates your openness and may help prepare you for the real thing down the road.

Are any of your fights videotaped?  I would gladly pay for a tape of your fights!  I know I led you to believe that I thought you'd claim Ali was "the greatest."  In truth, my intuition told me that you and I actually agree that he is not.   But I think you've misunderstood my point about Joe Frazier.   I know he KOd Jimmy Ellis and Elllis was a decent fighter.   My point was that Frazier never beat anyone good AFTER his victory over Ali.   His sparring partner acknowleged that he slipped badly after that fight.  

The question of determining the greatest heavyweight is complicated.  I think the truth goes something like this: A could beat B, who could beat C, who could beat A!  In other words, different fighters have trouble with different styles.   In their prime, Joe Lewis was KOd by Max Schmelling in their first fight; Muhammad Ali should have lost to Doug Jones; Joe Frazier looked dreadful against George Foreman; Mike Tyson got KOd by Buster Douglas; Lennox Lewis was twice KOd by his inferiors,  In fact, all these great champions were outclassed by second-rate fighters.  That said, I'd vote for George Foreman as the greatest.  He fought a dumb fight against Ali.  Had Foreman paced himself on that hot an humid  African day, he'd probably have won.

Don

Aright don,
               You was close, my name is actually craig.

If you dont mind me asking, what made you such positive believer in god? was it an experience/s or just based upon evidence you research from other source's?

As for my fights, i dont have any tapes as of yet - hav'nt been very active the past year, due to getting my graphics business off the ground.

Fraizer was never the same, your were right, he had blood pressure problems, and was getting tired easily, i personally think he was probley on a pill [forgot the name] which gets rid of water retention, but sucks the strength out of you, and overtime increase's the blood pressure. Although, they wer'nt steroids and did'nt increase his fighting ability's they were purely to make him look trim.

I agree george foreman was dam good, i think he let ali's goating and ali's reputation get the better of him in that fight, which lead to him making rash decisions. Ali was on water pills for that fight, and i think george was probley to, as they have both blown up like ballons these days which is a common side affect of them.

as with most sports, with modern science increasing athletes ability's, ali, foreman and frazier will probley end up looking like feather weights in 50 years time, but when i think of the greatest fighters, i think it's those who face equally matched aponents and yet managed to pull the extra 10% out of the bag, each and everytime they fight.

adios

Craig

Spitfire: "What made you such a positive believer in God?  Was it an experience or just based upon evidence you resarch from other sources?"
________________________________________

Craig, my faith in God is anchored to my many mystical experiences of God's presence, grace, and power.  These experiences include many "miracles" I have personally experienced, played an active role in, or encountered in the testimonies of people I know well.   I respect your skepticism because I know you have not had any such experiences. If that were true of me, I'd probably be an agnostic.

Some denominations take the position that the age of miracles ended in the biblical era.  My reaction?   If I had been raised in such churches, my attitude would resemble that of Craig and Brendan.  If miracles don't happen today, it seems implausible to believe that they ever happened in a "magical" biblical era.   A rational person reasons by analogy.  Biblical miracles often find analogies in equivalent modern miracles.

Let me give you 3 quick examples; (1) Jesus healed a deaf mute and a deaf mute was instantly healed in the church of my youth.  (2) Jesus healed the blind and my cousin's eye was instantly healed through prayer after being badly damaged in an accident.  (3) The Risen Jesus ate fish and allowed His wounds to be handled.  The "physicality" of this epiphany finds modern parallels like the experience of my friend Leonard who lost his son Jeff, Jeff's wife, and 2 kids in a small plane crash.  

Yet Jeff returned from the dead in a manner similar to Jesus.   When Leonard was about to perform some errands in Jeff's pick-up, Jeff emerged from a ditch and asked to drive his pick-up truck "for old time's sake."   Wiith Leonard at his side in a state of shock, Jeff reassured his Dad of the family's survival and then helped him tie up loose ends by disclosing his total investment and financial situation.  Jeff eventually turned right down a side road, stopped, saying he was not permitted to go further, walked towards a clump of trees, and dematerialized.   The next day Leonard was accosted by Jeff's dead wife, Karen, while he was seated on a fallen tree, weeping.  She exhorted him, "Didn't we tell you we are all together and doing fine?  You get back in the house and comfort Mom!"  I pressed Leonard to share these incidents because I was puzzled by his lack of grief over this tragedy.  By contrast, he grieved over other less personal losses.  I know Leonard very well and he is an absolutely credible witness.  For more such examples, read my "God and Destiny" thread.

Don

Quote:

I'm in the process of writing several articles in line with many of the ideas expressed in this thread and attempting to explain and tie spiritual, philosophical, and scientific theories together based on my own experiences and understanding of these.   As I wrote these, I had some aha moments that I believe brings some additional clarification to much of new age thought.   Hope to have this done and online in the next month or so. Kathy

I'm really looking forward to this Kathy. Your way of writing/method of expression is very pleasant reading. ;-)

Love, Mairlyn ;-)

Check this out, a recording from Leslie Flint and his sitters. The guy speaking is deceased Mike Fearon. He speaks on the church, and i agree with him 100%.

I'd like to hear other's thoughts. http://66.49.237.205/Flint/LF%20Mike%20Fearon%201.wma

marilyn do you believe in the second coming i do deanna

wrote on Feb 5^th, 2006 at 6:03pm:

Check this out, a recording from Leslie Flint and his sitters. The guy speaking is deceased Mike Fearon. He speaks on the church, and i agree with him 100%. I'd like to hear other's thoughts. http://66.49.237.205/Flint/LF%20Mike%20Fearon%201.wma

I'm so glad that everybody can hear Leslie's fantastic gift.  

Yes Black, he is entirely right, Religion was made by greedy men to control weak-minded people.

This question is to the skeptics,

If Leslie was a deluded schizophrenic like a lot of people said, how could he relay entirely logical and precise data about the spirit that is using him?

Quote:

marilyn do you believe in the second coming i do deanna

Yes, but not in the physical. I believe that the second coming is the Christ Consciousness coming into the lives of everyone. We are the Second Coming. We are the Ones we are waiting for. ;-)

           
In Spirit of ONE,
Mairlyn ;-)

Spitfire's description of the Kingdom/all of creation is one of the few that I've ever read that emphasizes the limitless, endless size of creation. If I understand him correctly he says our Earth could be like an atom or a grain of sand in a more immense universe. I assume that that universe could then be like a grain of sand in another, and in another, on and on. That is awesome micro/macro talk!
To me it makes God an even more amazingly awesome power, but apparently Spitfire says it disproves God. Why would it? Whatever created the immensities would just be more immense itself.
bets

ilistened to mike fearon and i totally agreed with him i found it very inspiring and knowlegable about heaven deanna

Blink:

I don't know if you're aware of this, but my guidance shows me flashing stars. Your post got a star of approval. ;D


wrote on Jan 21^st, 2006 at 9:09pm:

Re: the kingdom of God on earth I believe the kingdom of God on earth is, right now, in each of our hearts. Remember who we are, that we are human beings who are capable of acts of love limited only to our imagination. love, blink

Spitfire:

If you'd put as much effort into being happy and finding love, you'd be quite the happy fellow.


wrote on Feb 1^st, 2006 at 4:36pm:

Once again, don the mighty passes judgement based on "his" views. maybe they wer'nt deleted because you were wrong? but dont worry, i know that cant be the case. Im open to proof god exists, tell me how to meet him, give me a location and time, a place, i'll be there. Your storys about jesus healing a heathen muslim, aint gonna convert me to christianity, it's the same as a nazi healing a jew, the jew aint gonna become a nazi. The bible is full of contradictions, fact. Heres a few Theological doctrines:     1. God is satisfied with his works         Gen 1:31        God is dissatisfied with his works.           Gen 6:6     2. God dwells in chosen temples         2 Chron 7:12,16        God dwells not in temples         Acts 7:48     3. God dwells in light         Tim 6:16        God dwells in darkness         1 Kings 8:12/ Ps 18:11/ Ps 97:2     4. God is seen and heard         Ex 33:23/ Ex 33:11/ Gen 3:9,10/ Gen 32:30/ Is 6:1/          Ex 24:9-11        God is invisible and cannot be heard         John 1:18/ John 5:37/ Ex 33:20/ 1 Tim 6:16     5. God is tired and rests         Ex 31:17/ Jer 15:6        God is never tired and never rests         Is 40:28     6. God is everywhere present, sees and knows all things         Prov 15:3/ Ps 139:7-10/ Job 34:22,21        God is not everywhere present, neither sees nor knows all              things         Gen 11:5/ Gen 18:20,21/ Gen 3:8     7. God knows the hearts of men         Acts 1:24/ Ps 139:2,3        God tries men to find out what is in their heart         Deut 13:3/ Deut 8:2/ Gen 22:12     8. God is all powerful         Jer 32:27/ Matt 19:26       God is not all powerful         Judg 1:19     9. God is unchangeable         James 1:17/ Mal 3:6/ Ezek 24:14/ Num 23:19        God is changeable         Gen 6:6/ Jonah 3:10/ 1 Sam 2:30,31/ 2 Kings 20:1,4,5,6/          Ex 33:1,3,17,14     10. God is just and impartial          Ps 92:15/ Gen 18:25/ Deut 32:4/ Rom 2:11/ Ezek 18:25         God is unjust and partial          Gen 9:25/ Ex 20:5/ Rom 9:11-13/ Matt 13:12 Theres hundreds more, and yes theres the typical argument of the book was written by man.. The full bible was written by man, you cant tell whats right and whats wrong, so you either believe a full section of the bible, or you dont. Picking and choosing bits you like, is just being hypocritical. Unless you can prove, sections of the bible, by re-creating events described there? If you pray for a mountain to move and it does, believe you and me, i would be down to church ever sunday.

As I've noted, I will address Spitfire's theological questions at length in a future thread.  But I want to put a lot into my answers and right now I have other topical priorities.  Also, I need to figure out a way to make my answers both relevant to this site's purpose and of general interest to other readers.  I prefer discussing paranormal experiences to theological debates, but such debates are my specialty and I will eventually engage Craig's issues and well as those of others.

Don

Is it already March?

Marilyn,

Let's see....january, March, February, April....Yep, it's time to return full-time.  BTW, I checked out the Lemurian website from the center of the earth and it was a tad too conservative for me.  So I prefer Bruce's site.

Don