1 of the main things (for me), that casts doubt on the existance of the afterlife is evolution. Plus the existance of animals/consciousness similar to our own.

We evolved from apes, did we have a life plan, when our brain was little more then primal instinct?

When we started down the path of evolution, morals, love, respect, peace - were worth little, yet now, every afterlife book i have read - says we come here to learn about these things.

At the beginging there were only a few hundred thousand of us. Now theres over 6 billion? how many people are there? spirit wise i mean - there must be a fixed number - otherwise how do more spirits come into being?

What makes us different then animals?

I know people say free will - but free will can be controled once another has enough knowledge on how a process works. You give a dog a treat - it will sit. You gives us 5 million bucks, we will do the conga. It's just about pushing the right buttons.

Free will is just knowledge.

Evolution - starting from a single cell which lead to us - does'nt make me confident we planned to come here, because we must have been coming since a certain point - aka we inhabbited the first cells - or we started inhabiting fish - we must have started with less then what we are today and it must have started many millions of years ago.

With past life regressions etc, no one ever talks about being a monkey...or being a caveman, it's always victorian scenes or famous people.

These things lead me to think we only live once. and if we do survive we are upon death, stored away into a cabinet of consciousness like a libary.

Any thoughts?

hi spitfire i dont believe all that evolution stuff i dont believe for one minute that we evolved from apes i believe god made everyliving thing as he made us  deanna

wrote on Jan 15^th, 2006 at 6:38pm:

hi spitfire i dont believe all that evolution stuff i dont believe for one minute that we evolved from apes i believe god made everyliving thing as he made us  deanna

I dont believe in god :)

The evidence for evolution is far more substantial and more believable and reproducable also.

+ god is the new guy on the block. Only been around for 2000 years. We were here long long before that.

Hi Spitfire,

Such an interesting train of thought you have here.  Yes, I sometimes think maybe we are a book on a shelf somewhere, maybe a video in Someone's library.

If so, then love, love, love.  There is nothing else worth living for.

blink

wrote on Jan 15^th, 2006 at 6:41pm:

+ god is the new guy on the block. Only been around for 2000 years. We were here long long before that.

Lol I like it.  I don't believe in evolution one bit.  The thing which kills it for me is there are no "inbetweens" (that I'll explain later on in the post) and there is no absolute 100% guarenteed evidence, your only going off what some clever scientist says.  Personally I can see a similarity between us and chimps/apes etc. but surely if evolution was a loooong process that is happening all the time surely we would of discovered an "inbetween" of a human and an ape?

Remember what your saying is Spit, "Hear eveything, trust nothing"

yes spitfire but god was around in the beginning he created the earth  and every living thing on it hes not new on the block hes been there since time began deanna

wrote on Jan 15^th, 2006 at 6:56pm:

yes spitfire but god was around in the beginning he created the earth  and every living thing on it hes not new on the block hes been there since time began deanna

Thats properganda dean, without the bible you would'nt know god existed. and since the bible was only created 2000 years ago. then god is an idea which has only been around for 2000 years. Before then we worshipped the sun/moon ground and everything in between - it's merely our lack of understanding which makes us believe in things, which cannot be verified.

wrote on Jan 15^th, 2006 at 6:55pm:

Lol I like it.  I don't believe in evolution one bit.  The thing which kills it for me is there are no "inbetweens" (that I'll explain later on in the post) and there is no absolute 100% guarenteed evidence, your only going off what some clever scientist says.  Personally I can see a similarity between us and chimps/apes etc. but surely if evolution was a loooong process that is happening all the time surely we would of discovered an "inbetween" of a human and an ape? Remember what your saying is Spit, "Hear eveything, trust nothing"

They have found people in between us in kenya.

I'll also tell you something which will spook you out (it did me anyway).

Some crazy scientists awhile back created a human -ape hybrid and called it a humanzie. and i aint joking. Unfortunatley some human rights activists stormed the complex and killed the ape carrying the humanzie.

Theres also some apes which are incredabley like us. Check out this guy from the late 70's

http://paranormal.about.com/library/weekly/aa022800a.htm

His name is oliver, and he will blow your socks off.

spitfire i wasnt getting at you in any way your entitled to your own beliefs ,everyone is  its just therwasnt any humans until god made the earth and adam and eve thats what i believe but you dont have to weve all got free will to believe in what we all want to believe in deanna

Why, why, WHY do God and evolution have to be independent from one another?

Is there a rule that evolution couldn't have been guided by God? Started by God? From an evolutionary standpoint, humans don't even make sense, so why couldn't God have pushed us in the right direction?

wrote on Jan 15^th, 2006 at 7:08pm:

spitfire i wasnt getting at you in any way your entitled to your own beliefs ,everyone is  its just therwasnt any humans until god made the earth and adam and eve thats what i believe but you dont have to weve all got free will to believe in what we all want to believe in deanna

Im just pointing out that some of the main things the bible says are false.

2 humans cannot = a race. It would cause genetic mutation and degredation.

Knowledge leads to proof or dis-proof.

Im just saying that before we can expand our horizons we first must question our own beliefs, and be allowed to make our own beliefs without being programmed by others :).

wrote on Jan 15^th, 2006 at 7:13pm:

Why, why, WHY do God and evolution have to be independent from one another? Is there a rule that evolution couldn't have been guided by God? Started by God? From an evolutionary standpoint, humans don't even make sense, so why couldn't God have pushed us in the right direction?

Because, if you believe in the bible - you must believe in it 100% or not at all.

The bible says god created adam and eve - and they started the human race.

Evolution says otherwise. There like oil and water.

and why dont we make sense?

Now that is an eye-opener!

Having read the article about "Oliver" (lol) I think that it is open to a muchos debatos, I reckon it could of been a Lab techs dream!  I believe that he must of been created by a lab because there surely would be more like good old oliver,  but still it is very , very interesting and has opened my mind to suggestion as there could be 100's of chimps like oliver in the wild, walking like us, smoking ciggies like us . . . . .

Evolution does not imply that you or I as our individual Doc or Spitfire personalities were a fish or an ape.  Indeed, the fact that there are more people around doesn't tell as where we come from.

There are trillions of insects, and more plankton and organisms than I can imagine.  You may say we evolved from single cells to simple creatures to us.  But how does it work?  How does my heart know how to beat, I can change my immune response to new viruses, and activate and inactivate my coagulation system properly with a cut?  All from evolution - you might say?  Nothing from design or spirit?  Who gives the commands?  My subconsicous?  What, exactly is that?

While biology is explainable (this protein phosphorylates that protein, etc.), the "why" or coordination of it all is left up to a shrug of the shoulders.  It is so clear to me tha t consciousness, our very being coordinates these physical activities.  Even as a doctor, I can not ascribe it all to random mutationor survival of the fittest mechanism.  

So I see evolution as compatilble with the afterlife, and continuing spiritual evolution thereafter.

As for reincarnation, I'm not sure.  I'm not sure how many of us are new souls, and who has recycled.

M

wrote on Jan 15^th, 2006 at 8:18pm:

Now that is an eye-opener! Having read the article about "Oliver" (lol) I think that it is open to a muchos debatos, I reckon it could of been a Lab techs dream!  I believe that he must of been created by a lab because there surely would be more like good old oliver,  but still it is very , very interesting and has opened my mind to suggestion as there could be 100's of chimps like oliver in the wild, walking like us, smoking ciggies like us . . . . .

Aye, tell me about it.

Which then leads back to my original post of evolution putting a whole lotta questions into our continued survival.

I hope someone has some good answer's because my brain is pickled.

wrote on Jan 15^th, 2006 at 8:42pm:

Evolution does not imply that you or I as our individual Doc or Spitfire personalities were a fish or an ape.  Indeed, the fact that there are more people around doesn't tell as where we come from. There are trillions of insects, and more plankton and organisms than I can imagine.  You may say we evolved from single cells to simple creatures to us.  But how does it work?  How does my heart know how to beat, I can change my immune response to new viruses, and activate and inactivate my coagulation system properly with a cut?  All from evolution - you might say?  Nothing from design or spirit?  Who gives the commands?  My subconsicous?  What, exactly is that? While biology is explainable (this protein phosphorylates that protein, etc.), the "why" or coordination of it all is left up to a shrug of the shoulders.  It is so clear to me tha t consciousness, our very being coordinates these physical activities.  Even as a doctor, I can not ascribe it all to random mutationor survival of the fittest mechanism.   So I see evolution as compatilble with the afterlife, and continuing spiritual evolution thereafter. As for reincarnation, I'm not sure.  I'm not sure how many of us are new souls, and who has recycled. M

Evolution states all current life on earth is a by product of protien and other things colliding in a primordial pool.

Your cells learn and adapt from new experiences - thus leading to new defence's. Each cell learns and a collection of cells can pool there resources to stop something or produce a reaction.

Your brain i have no doubt can affect your body - but i believe it is just your conscious mind - telling your sub conscious to take a course of action which ends up producing a positive affect.

But still it's your collection of brain cells which allows you to produce the thoughts which produce the affects.

90% of books you read about say we are re-incarnated. We come here to learn, we have lived many times.

But, how can that be so - when our population increase's so dramatically. Did we come here to learn what it's like to be a caveman/half ape? why does'nt anyone who has past life regression remember being a caveman or back to the time of our half ape ancestorey?

Evolution may very well, lead to an afterlife were the consciousness departs the body, but for us to relive again as a human we would have to deprive someone else's life in the making and take over there body.

It leads me to think we are like a match once we burn out we cant turn back into the fuel source again - because we have become tangled in a vast space of changed energy.

Spitfire, I've read some material a while back
(don't ask where, I forget where I saw it but
I did read it) suggesting that our "collective
unconscious" holds the entire evolutionary
history of the species (i.e. a woman undergoing
hypnosis, suddenly took on the "point of view"
(subjective "I" point, that is) of a prehistoric
reptile, and she noted that she was attracted to
a reddish patch on the side of the male's head...)
What this *MIGHT* indicate, is that we've all
been "lower life forms" in earlier incarnations...
and that our "subjective/"I" points" are in the
multi-billion year process of "moving up the
evolutionary ladder."
Thusly, evolution and the "continuity of consciousness" (afterlife) would be inextricably
linked with one another..! No "Big Sugar-Daddy in the Sky" necessary.
Sorry if that confuses you, but its the best thing
that came to mind for me at the moment. (But
then, whatever "truth" might be, I imagine it
would be a bit hard to express in late-twentieth
century/early-twenty-first century English...
wouldn't you say so?)
BTW thanks for the article on Oliver. I HADN'T
heard that one before. (A chimp who walks
upright and sips whiskey while watching
T.V. - ? And digs HUMAN chicks? That oughta
send the fundies into a tizzy...)

B-man

wrote on Jan 15^th, 2006 at 9:00pm:

Spitfire, I've read some material a while back (don't ask where, I forget where I saw it but I did read it) suggesting that our "collective unconscious" holds the entire evolutionary history of the species (i.e. a woman undergoing hypnosis, suddenly took on the "point of view" (subjective "I" point, that is) of a prehistoric reptile, and she noted that she was attracted to a reddish patch on the side of the male's head...) What this *MIGHT* indicate, is that we've all been "lower life forms" in earlier incarnations... and that our "subjective/"I" points" are in the multi-billion year process of "moving up the evolutionary ladder." Thusly, evolution and the "continuity of consciousness" (afterlife) would be inextricably linked with one another..! No "Big Sugar-Daddy in the Sky" necessary. Sorry if that confuses you, but its the best thing that came to mind for me at the moment. (But then, whatever "truth" might be, I imagine it would be a bit hard to express in late-twentieth century/early-twenty-first century English... wouldn't you say so?) B-man

I hear you chum, and it does sound quite alot like buddists beliefs.

I can see us being lesser animals in the past, and that it is our knowledge which could have forced cells into forced mutation by expanding the knowledge to which the cells have access to.

If you give life - knowledge it is only natural for it to want to expand it, it's curiosity.

This can be bad and good. Depending on the basis in which the knowledge is used.

You never know...the dinosaurs may have been a failure of our attempt to give it knowledge beyond which it had reached a point to which it would prove useful.

But then again..morals etc dont matter to most other life forms - only us.

Either it is our knowlege from previous existances be that animal/cell or human which advance organic beings, and thus allowing us to gain further knowledge which can only be produced by physical reactions.

It would be concivable that our consciousness can only do so much to an organisim during 1 life span, thus almost any form of organic creature is possbile.

Maybe every creature in the world was our own experiments to find a set of cells to which we could manipulate to a point were it could develope into a society which could move beyond the boundaries of it's programming? Thus giving us more knowledge?

But then again...who would want to be a locust when you could be a human?...maybe we draw a lottery, and as the country ( human population) increase's more of us win the lottery because theres more chances of us getting the 6 numbers (aka human body).

Ok my brains dead. See ya tommorow.

wrote on Jan 15^th, 2006 at 6:38pm:

hi spitfire i dont believe all that evolution stuff i dont believe for one minute that we evolved from apes i believe god made everyliving thing as he made us

Hi deanna. Regardless of what anyone says, God probably created evolution and Nature's laws. When you jump up, gravity brings you down to earth. When your hair grows longer, it evolved. I also believe we are all from the spirit world (or astral world), but are also incarnated on the physical plane right now... subject to Nature's laws. For instace Deanna, if you look at your house cats and realize that there are bigger cats (lions, tigers, leopards, ect) than you know their physical bodies are related by Nature's laws. That's why people believe humans are related to apes... as they are the closest animals that look like humans.

I believe anything that can dream has a spirit or astral body really, so that would include all humans and mammals. However, it wouldn't make sense why insects and plants wouldn't have spirits, either. As the Bible says "spirit created all life"... so that must mean every living thing has a spirit.

Just because evolution might be real, doesn't mean God isn't real. Such idiotic claims are only made by rumors and hearsay, everything will eventually lead back to God creating the universe in the first place. I believe both Nature and the spirit world is real.

wrote on Jan 15^th, 2006 at 8:56pm:

90% of books you read about say we are re-incarnated. We come here to learn, we have lived many times. But, how can that be so - when our population increase's so dramatically. Did we come here to learn what it's like to be a caveman/half ape? why does'nt anyone who has past life regression remember being a caveman or back to the time of our half ape ancestorey?

Perhapes spirits from the spirit world come to earth to learn lessons, or to advance themselves spiritually. By the way, there are random kids and people who recall prebirth and past life experiences. Most past lives are probably forgotten in the same way we forget dreams quickly after waking up in the physical world.

wrote on Jan 16^th, 2006 at 3:01am:

Hi deanna. Regardless of what anyone says, God probably created evolution and Nature's laws. When you jump up, gravity brings you down to earth. When your hair grows longer, it evolved. I also believe we are all from the spirit world (or astral world), but are also incarnated on the physical plane right now... subject to Nature's laws. For instace Deanna, if you look at your house cats and realize that there are bigger cats (lions, tigers, leopards, ect) than you know their physical bodies are related by Nature's laws. That's why people believe humans are related to apes... as they are the closest animals that look like humans. I believe anything that can dream has a spirit or astral body really, so that would include all humans and mammals. However, it wouldn't make sense why insects and plants wouldn't have spirits, either. As the Bible says "spirit created all life"... so that must mean every living thing has a spirit. Just because evolution might be real, doesn't mean God isn't real. Such idiotic claims are only made by rumors and hearsay, everything will eventually lead back to God creating the universe in the first place. I believe both Nature and the spirit world is real.

How can you say god created evolution, when it clearly states in the bible he create adam and eve fresh off the bat?.

If you believe in the bible you must believe in it 100% or not at all, you can't pick and choose the sections which suit you.

I dont read moby dick, and pretend captain ahab had 2 legs, just because it makes a better story line for me to follow.

It's not Just about looks, It's DNA. 98% of our genetic structure we share with apes, we have similar behaviour to apes, they have crossed humans with apes, to create humanzies!(read my post to jambo).

As i have said, i dont see anywhere in the bible....god created the human by mutating the local monkey....

The christian god does'nt exist.... He/it does'nt control gravity or the laws of nature. You will not go to hell for stealing a loaf of bred, you will not go directly to jail, and will not pass go to collect your 200 bucks.

Your core statements, are based on fairy tales - you need proof, and good solid evidence. Otherwise your just another smuck in a tux.

wrote on Jan 16^th, 2006 at 6:58am:

How can you say god created evolution, when it clearly states in the bible he create adam and eve fresh off the bat?. If you believe in the bible you must believe in it 100% or not at all, you can't pick and choose the sections which suit you. I dont read moby dick, and pretend captain ahab had 2 legs, just because it makes a better story line for me to follow. It's not Just about looks, It's DNA. 98% of our genetic structure we share with apes, we have similar behaviour to apes, they have crossed humans with apes, to create humanzies!(read my post to jambo). As i have said, i dont see anywhere in the bible....god created the human by mutating the local monkey.... The christian god does'nt exist.... He/it does'nt control gravity or the laws of nature. You will not go to hell for stealing a loaf of bred, you will not go directly to jail, and will not pass go to collect your 200 bucks.

Firstly your article at the end says this :-

"These  reports were refuted in 1997, however, when genetic testing revealed that he had 48 chromosomes, just like any other chimp. This eliminates the human-chimp hybrid theory, but does not rule out the possibility that Oliver might be a mixture of common and pygmy chimps or part of a new, unknown species."

And the pictures to me look like a trained chimp with a shaved head. So you have created this race of Humanzies from one article. Great work there.

Secondly, why must someone accept the bible as 100% true to believe in it? I find a lot of the literal content of it highly doubtful yet the spiritual themes it contains mimic a lot of religious and spiritual believes throughtout the world. In fact it makes sense for a book like that to contain alot of exagerated content(Humanzie article anyone?) as it is a 4000 year old text version of the game chinese whispers. But to understand our spiritual history it has great value.

"the christian god does not exist"

Spitfire,  I am not christian, yet I think in your searches, you are looking for evidence.  Why make a conclusion when some of your afterlife/spiritual searches have just begun?

I have found, the more grounded you are in your belief systems, especially in the physical plane, the less open you are to spiritual proof.  

Don could show you that classical christianity is not as many think it to be.  I believe this is true of Judaism as well.  God was said to create us in his own image.  If we each are a small part of God, inside us, exploring, understanding, then no you will not see the man with the long flowing white beard.  The concept of the "all that is," is deeper than that.  The concept of you being part of a divinity or seeking it within yourself is deeper than that.  

You may disprove the child like idea of God as a man on a throne - but christian and Jewish concepts of a much bigger tougher to define divinity are more the rule than the exception.

Best to ya,

Matthew

wrote on Jan 16^th, 2006 at 7:28am:

Firstly your article at the end says this :- "These  reports were refuted in 1997, however, when genetic testing revealed that he had 48 chromosomes, just like any other chimp. This eliminates the human-chimp hybrid theory, but does not rule out the possibility that Oliver might be a mixture of common and pygmy chimps or part of a new, unknown species." And the pictures to me look like a trained chimp with a shaved head. So you have created this race of Humanzies from one article. Great work there. Secondly, why must someone accept the bible as 100% true to believe in it? I find a lot of the literal content of it highly doubtful yet the spiritual themes it contains mimic a lot of religious and spiritual believes throughtout the world. In fact it makes sense for a book like that to contain alot of exagerated content(Humanzie article anyone?) as it is a 4000 year old text version of the game chinese whispers. But to understand our spiritual history it has great value.

That one article was purely to give jambo some reading, if you bothered to read my post i said - theres some humans incredably like us, not that he was a humanzie, the reason i brought humanzies up, is becuase it was on a documentary and an artical i vied from a very reliable bbc source, which added further  proof humans did come from apes, otherwise such a merger would have not been possible.

You made your decision based on 1 picture, good job. Ive seen him in action, and he's like no chimp you have ever seen. Maybe you should go find more infomation about it, before you make your conclusions, unless you are 100% programmed by christianity? in which case, not much point trying to reason with you.

You either believe the bible 100% or not at all, you cant just pick out the parts you like, because you have no idea of whats true and whats false.

A few things you should know about the bible also,
- it approves slavery.
- it approves murder under gods rules
- jesus lied about praying
- Storys in the bible condone rape.
-The bible condones human and animal sacrifice.

All very spiritual stuff.

wrote on Jan 16^th, 2006 at 7:45am:

"the christian god does not exist" Spitfire,  I am not christian, yet I think in your searches, you are looking for evidence.  Why make a conclusion when some of your afterlife/spiritual searches have just begun? I have found, the more grounded you are in your belief systems, especially in the physical plane, the less open you are to spiritual proof.   Don could show you that classical christianity is not as many think it to be.  I believe this is true of Judaism as well.  God was said to create us in his own image.  If we each are a small part of God, inside us, exploring, understanding, then no you will not see the man with the long flowing white beard.  The concept of the "all that is," is deeper than that.  The concept of you being part of a divinity or seeking it within yourself is deeper than that.   You may disprove the child like idea of God as a man on a throne - but christian and Jewish concepts of a much bigger tougher to define divinity are more the rule than the exception. Best to ya, Matthew

Ello matt,

I specifically said, "christian" god, any other god is still on the cards for me.

I dont get how people read the bible and change it to there own words? im not talking about just a little bit of interpretation, but full blow versions of there own.

Without the bible, god as it is generally thought - aka an omnipotent being who sees all/knows all /all loving. Would not even exist.

Therefore people who believe in such a god, do so because on that book. If you believe that part, then you must follow the rest because god says you must, otherwise you are in conflict.

wrote on Jan 16^th, 2006 at 7:50am:

That one article was purely to give jambo some reading, if you bothered to read my post i said - theres some humans incredably like us, not that he was a humanzie, the reason i brought humanzies up, is becuase it was on a documentary and an artical i vied from a very reliable bbc source, which added further  proof humans did come from apes, otherwise such a merger would have not been possible. You made your decision based on 1 picture, good job. Ive seen him in action, and he's like no chimp you have ever seen. Maybe you should go find more infomation about it, before you make your conclusions, unless you are 100% programmed by christianity? in which case, not much point trying to reason with you. You either believe the bible 100% or not at all, you cant just pick out the parts you like, because you have no idea of whats true and whats false. A few things you should know about the bible also, - it approves slavery. - it approves murder under gods rules - jesus lied about praying - Storys in the bible condone rape. -The bible condones human and animal sacrifice. All very spiritual stuff.

The main point I was making is that the article stats that he was a chimp so in fact I was right in saying the pictures look like a chimp. Your right I havent seen all the articles, documentries etc but am making comments on what ive seen so far. I havent made any conclusions so not sure what you mean.

The point is im not denying evolution but there are many grey areas in it.

I am a loosely christian in that i believe in the christian God  but dont really believe much of the literal stuff of the bible. Saying that i have to believe 100% of the bible does not make it true. It is a book written by humans , why should i believe all of it?

It is a historical document though, and it contains spiritual meaning as it is written by people who believed in spirituality and God. Considering it as an ancient but self conflicting spiritual text would you not say it is worth something?

Totally disregarding it 100% does not really make any sense to me. Believing it 100% does not really make any sense to me.

wrote on Jan 16^th, 2006 at 8:28am:

The main point I was making is that the article stats that he was a chimp so in fact I was right in saying the pictures look like a chimp. Your right I havent seen all the articles, documentries etc but am making comments on what ive seen so far. I havent made any conclusions so not sure what you mean. The point is im not denying evolution but there are many grey areas in it. I am a loosely christian in that i believe in the christian God  but dont really believe much of the literal stuff of the bible. Saying that i have to believe 100% of the bible does not make it true. It is a book written by humans , why should i believe all of it? It is a historical document though, and it contains spiritual meaning as it is written by people who believed in spirituality and God. Considering it as an ancient but self conflicting spiritual text would you not say it is worth something? Totally disregarding it 100% does not really make any sense to me. Believing it 100% does not really make any sense to me.

Matt said:
"And the pictures to me look like a trained chimp with a shaved head. So you have created this race of Humanzies from one article. Great work there."

Thats what i call a conclusion. You deducted from my post that, i based my beliefs that we evolved from apes purely on 1 artical. And then proceed to try and mock me for it.

I am a loosely christian in that i believe in the christian God  but dont really believe much of the literal stuff of the bible.

Yet without the bible, you would know nothing of a christian god? so you take the peices which suit you, and disreguard the peices which you dont like, yet god did not say to people to follow the segments which they like. It's like saying i'll follow 3 of the 10 commandments - i dont like the rest.

It is a historical document though, and it contains spiritual meaning as it is written by people who believed in spirituality and God. Considering it as an ancient but self conflicting spiritual text would you not say it is worth something?

It contains words, which contradict each other. It was written by man, the experience's in it cannot be reproduced.

It had a purpose to keep control of the mass's. This was often abused. In the modern world, we should look at ourselfs and find our beliefs, not try to bend ourselfs to fit into an out dated self destructing set of rules defined by a book written 2000 years ago.

But it once had a purpose, and it gave people hope. I cannot deny that.

wrote on Jan 16^th, 2006 at 9:26am:

Matt said: Thats what i call a conclusion. You deducted from my post that, i based my beliefs that we evolved from apes purely on 1 artical. And then proceed to try and mock me for it. I made a conclusion on your believes as that was the only article you produced. That was wrong. I did not make a conclusion on monkey-man hybrids as I dont know enough about it Yet without the bible, you would know nothing of a christian god? so you take the peices which suit you, and disreguard the peices which you dont like, yet god did not say to people to follow the segments which they like. It's like saying i'll follow 3 of the 10 commandments - i dont like the rest. So the article on the chimp becomes obsolete as well using your logic. The article states that scientists prooved he was only a chimp and yet you seem to have thought the entire article's text contained some truth even though parts of it do not give the same conclusion. Is this not the same as looking at the bible? I believe in a god, the christian god is close to what I believe in. Allah is also close to what i believe in. I am not restricted to comply to the bibles teachings as I do not believe all of the bibles teachings. It contains words, which contradict each other. It was written by man, the experience's in it cannot be reproduced. The entire thing does not contradict itself. Spiritualy it does not totally contradict itself. It had a purpose to keep control of the mass's. This was often abused. In the modern world, we should look at ourselfs and find our beliefs, not try to bend ourselfs to fit into an out dated self destructing set of rules defined by a book written 2000 years ago. But it once had a purpose, and it gave people hope. I cannot deny that. Sounds alot like the controlling powers of the skeptics modern science. It seems you have already made an opinion on it. I have not. I dont think its black or white. I believe it is grey but contains light.

I made a conclusion on your believes as that was the only article you produced. That was wrong.

I did not make a conclusion on monkey-man hybrids as I dont know enough about it

You mis-read what i put, just like if you re-read the bible, you'll see it promotes things which are considered evil in the modern day. Such as Slavery/Rape/Murder to name a few.

So the article on the chimp becomes obsolete as well using your logic. The article states that scientists prooved he was only a chimp and yet you seem to have thought the entire article's text contained some truth even though parts of it do not give the same conclusion. Is this not the same as looking at the bible?
I believe in a god, the christian god is close to what I believe in. Allah is also close to what i believe in. I am not restricted to comply to the bibles teachings as I do not believe all of the bibles teachings.

Nope, i take it all in. it's just 1 segment of proof that we evolved from apes. i accept all of it, if i did'nt i could ask the guy who did the tests anything i need to verify it. i did'nt say oliver was a humanzee, therefore i aint liable to any backlash from that artical. i merely pointed out how this ape with an extra chromazone, was alot like us, so much infact he was compared to have the inteligence of an 11 year old.

Can you verify god exists?..or are they mearly your idea's based upon someone else's idea's written down 2000 years ago?

The entire thing does not contradict itself. Spiritualy it does not totally contradict itself.

Read this website. http://www.evilbible.com

The bible is just 1 giant contradiction. the core values clash like hell.

Sounds alot like the controlling powers of the skeptics modern science. It seems you have already made an opinion on it. I have not. I dont think its black or white. I believe it is grey but contains light.

ive made my mind up and i will stand my ground, though i remain open to proof, and i will change my views accordingley. Until then, christian god = fairy tale( For me).

Spitfire,

You throw the baby out with the bathwater.  This is not a geometrical proof: i.e. the bible has contradictions, therefore the christian God does not exist.  The bible has many contributors, and is written by man, to teach and learn about God and religion.  The old testament and new are very different.  However, the christian notion of God does not not hinge on consistencies or flaws or contradictions, unless you are talking with a neanderthal bible thumper who believes every letter is factual and true without having to be interpreted and understood.

We are supposed to look at the gestalt.  The overall picture of Jesus' teachings.  Do unto others.  Love thy neighbor, mercy, kindness, humbleness in the new testament.  Somehow, these simple notions have touched billions of people and those who have made contact with spirits seem to suggest that everything is not literal by the bible, but these loving concepts are true (as true can be)...

So, personally, I don't think that inconsistencies in the written word of man either disproves or proves the existence of God.

Matthew

wrote on Jan 16^th, 2006 at 1:39pm:

Spitfire, You throw the baby out with the bathwater.  This is not a geometrical proof: i.e. the bible has contradictions, therefore the christian God does not exist.  The bible has many contributors, and is written by man, to teach and learn about God and religion.  The old testament and new are very different.  However, the christian notion of God does not not hinge on consistencies or flaws or contradictions, unless you are talking with a neanderthal bible thumper who believes every letter is factual and true without having to be interpreted and understood. We are supposed to look at the gestalt.  The overall picture of Jesus' teachings.  Do unto others.  Love thy neighbor, mercy, kindness, humbleness in the new testament.  Somehow, these simple notions have touched billions of people and those who have made contact with spirits seem to suggest that everything is not literal by the bible, but these loving concepts are true (as true can be)... So, personally, I don't think that inconsistencies in the written word of man either disproves or proves the existence of God. Matthew

The christian god is omnipotent. All knowing/All seeing/All loving/All powerful etc etc. Thus he should have directed the writers to put down the words he wanted? Otherwise why send 10 commandments to people who cant record it accurately?.

Bible bashers come to my door, quoting story's from the bible, but they dont quote the ones which does'nt fit in with modern ways of thinking, slavery, rape, murder in gods name.

Imagine a lawyer, he believes in the law, yet he's willing to defend a guilty client pleading innocent? he does'nt care because he's being paid. do you like that type of character?

Someone who believes in the christian god, can accept 100% words of man - when the man speaks something good, yet does'nt listen when the same man saying something bad?

I dont get how you seperate. Whats gods words, and what are mans?...every single person has there own parts they like and parts they dont.

But, at the end of the day people have lived by the bible, they have enslaved,raped, and commited murder through it's name, and a modern day christian should believe what the original author believes if they truely believe any of whats in the bible because all they have is man's word who were originally there.

Since you cannot verify infomation in the bible... you either accept it as fact (which a true christian should), or you should'nt. Anyone who only takes peices aint a christian and should'nt believe in a christian god.

I did'nt even want to go down the root of god, because it does'nt matter what i say - i wont open anyone's eyes.

I just wanted to know how evolution fitted in, with re-incarnation, our spirits - and the increasing of our knowledge

Spitfire, you bring up yet another salient point
with the "population increase problem."
After all, for 90%+ of human history, there were
only a few million people on earth at any given
time. Now, there's as many living people on earth
as the total number who had existed during the previous 30K years or so.
O.K. ---
Bear in mind that early in humanity's existence (think
back 100K years or so) that we had a world with (tops) 4 million people or so... about the same number as you'd find with any other large mammal at the time.
Where all those "spirits/souls" come from?
Special creation by "Jehovah", the Jewish god?
Somehow I doubt that.
If those people (every bit as intelligent as we are today) had souls/spirits at all, they had to come from somewhere? Well, we can assume they probably pre-existed as various types of higher ANIMALS...
Unless you want to assume the existance of a "Grand Poo-Bah in the Sky" sort of big-c "Creator". Out the window with logic... which I know isn't exactly what you're looking for, Spit.
So, on to the population increase objection to reincarnation.
Perhaps we are seeing an unprecedented number of "promotions" as it were, from the animal world. (That might explain the explosion of stupidity and willful ignorance which has accompanied the explosion in population, perhaps? Are we being inundated with "young", animalistic spirits? Watch the news sometime..!)
Why this unprecedented number of "promotions"? Perhaps these "promotions" occur with spirits from other world/dimensions as well as our own... seeing as how our modern world has an unprecedented capacity to support more humans (due to modern technology) more "spirits" are  currently "taking the opportunity" to incarnate as humans, thus filling the earth's ecological "human-carrying capacity" (just as mankind has always done, even 100K years ago when the "carrying capacity" was 2-4 million or so!)
"Opportunity has knocked", so to speak, for the opportunity to live a life as an intelligent being - and being as how intelligent life is most likely RARE in our universe (google "Rare Earth Hypothesis" to see what I'm talking about here) Earth is currently the "place to be."
Do I make sense here, Spit?
Of course, the humanist/athiest/materialist argument would dispose of all such specualtion rather neatly. BUT...
If NOT, then the scenario I mentioned above provides one answer to the fideists and their "Jehovah did it" mantra, and loathsome "heaven or hell, turn or burn" theology.
Hope that was useful,

B-man

Ive come to the conclusion, i do not get people on this board. at all.

You know, after reading many many oobe's/nde's....paranormal experiences, im coming to the conclusion, it's all the mind playing tricks. Because every single obe/nde/miracle is different....no one ever experience's the same thing.

Constantley producing conflicting infomation. Ive read numerous books....they all have conflicting infomation - we are reincanrated....yet theres children in the afterlife.....familys dont stick together in the afterlife...they do stick together. We are here to learn about love.....we are here mearly to experience things. We have a life review...we dont have a life review...

a recent tv program, took 2000 psychics and tested them, and got it down to 6 in the end.
These 6 crackpots....could'nt tell  which 2 woman out of 10 were pregnant....They then took 5 married couples and asked them to match them.....once again the so called psychic's did worse then if someone guessed.

But back to the point, obe's/nde's....sound like dreams. Nothing more. Coming up with stuff like atlantis existed...were all doomed in the year 1999....the earth will be destroyed in 2020......time is moving faster.....ufo's have peformed surgery on me....

The only common theme running through them, is that they evolve with the culture of the time.

People who get beamed up by ufo's, are usually beamed up by the little grey's....which hit our tv screens not long back.

People who read the bible see a white tunnel....people who dont - dont see anything.

People who are hippy's turn every single situation into love, a loving light....a loving figure....a loving place...

christians say.....jesus was there waiting for me....

Muslims say....allah and the profit muhammed was there.

Some people almost 10% of all nde's go to a form of hell...

Bruce said he performed experiments with people from across the world, were they wrote exactly the same things down on a pad after they woke up from there oobe's. Yet i have seen no one else do this...i hav'nt even seen the results...bruce claims he had.

It seems to me, that all this hemi sync and meditation mearly allows your immagination to take over, thus leading to fantasy scenario's. Which is the only way everyone's experience could be so unique.

This is not evidence for the afterlife. It's just you messing with your mind - and your mind showing you what it/you want.

You cant prove didley squat exists...unless you can verify your experience with another.

I just wish, there was someone with some grit about them, that are willing to find out the truth once and for all, instead of hiding behind there comfort zone of there self dellusion.

/End of Rant.

wrote on Jan 16^th, 2006 at 8:08pm:

Spitfire, you bring up yet another salient point with the "population increase problem." After all, for 90%+ of human history, there were only a few million people on earth at any given time. Now, there's as many living people on earth as the total number who had existed during the previous 30K years or so. O.K. --- Bear in mind that early in humanity's existence (think back 100K years or so) that we had a world with (tops) 4 million people or so... about the same number as you'd find with any other large mammal at the time. Where all those "spirits/souls" come from? Special creation by "Jehovah", the Jewish god? Somehow I doubt that. If those people (every bit as intelligent as we are today) had souls/spirits at all, they had to come from somewhere? Well, we can assume they probably pre-existed as various types of higher ANIMALS... Unless you want to assume the existance of a "Grand Poo-Bah in the Sky" sort of big-c "Creator". Out the window with logic... which I know isn't exactly what you're looking for, Spit. So, on to the population increase objection to reincarnation. Perhaps we are seeing an unprecedented number of "promotions" as it were, from the animal world. (That might explain the explosion of stupidity and willful ignorance which has accompanied the explosion in population, perhaps? Are we being inundated with "young", animalistic spirits? Watch the news sometime..!) Why this unprecedented number of "promotions"? Perhaps these "promotions" occur with spirits from other world/dimensions as well as our own... seeing as how our modern world has an unprecedented capacity to support more humans (due to modern technology) more "spirits" are  currently "taking the opportunity" to incarnate as humans, thus filling the earth's ecological "human-carrying capacity" (just as mankind has always done, even 100K years ago when the "carrying capacity" was 2-4 million or so!) "Opportunity has knocked", so to speak, for the opportunity to live a life as an intelligent being - and being as how intelligent life is most likely RARE in our universe (google "Rare Earth Hypothesis" to see what I'm talking about here) Earth is currently the "place to be." Do I make sense here, Spit? Of course, the humanist/athiest/materialist argument would dispose of all such specualtion rather neatly. BUT... If NOT, then the scenario I mentioned above provides one answer to the fideists and their "Jehovah did it" mantra, and loathsome "heaven or hell, turn or burn" theology. Hope that was useful, B-man

Well chum...your certaintly a breath of fresh air. logical deduction.....such a rare thing here.

Yea, i can accept that if re-incarnation is proved, but then also comes in, what is the point? you know people who have oobe's says love is all you need yada yada....how much love is there between ants?.

Is there an afterlife for an ant? who judges....who gets which slot? i said in a previous post, do we draw straws? do we get brownie points for certain acts, thus allowing us a higher form of existance?

Does an ant go through a live review? everyone's oobe/nde experiences are always based on personal beliefs of what will happen...

The 10 commandments aint gonna mean much to an ant....and as such an ant can be expected to carry out them to advance, thus they and similar sets of rules cannot apply the way everyone claims they do.

"*XIPE TOTEC* (the flayed god) does not exist"

Spitfire,  I am not *AN AZTEC*, yet I think in your searches, you are looking for evidence.  Why make a conclusion when some of your afterlife/spiritual searches have just begun?

I have found, the more grounded you are in your belief systems, especially in the physical plane, the less open you are to spiritual proof.  

Don could show you that *HUMAN-SACRIFICING AZTEC FAITH* is not as many think it to be.  I believe this is true of *AZTEC RELIGION* as well.  *XIPE TOTEC* was said to create us in his own image.  If we each are a small part of *XIPE TOTEC*, inside us, exploring, understanding, then no you will not see the *FLAYED MAN WITH THE FACE OF A SKULL.  The concept of the "all that is," is deeper than that.  The concept of you being part of a divinity or seeking it within yourself is deeper than that.  

You may disprove the child like idea of *XIPE TOTEC AS A SKINLESS MAN STANDING ON A TEMPLE OF BLEACHED HUMAN BONES* - but *AZTEC* and *LATE-PERIOD TOLTEC* concepts of a much bigger tougher to define divinity are more the rule than the exception.

Best to ya,

Matthew
*****************
By what you've claimed, Matt... I'm sure that my
(minor) changes to what you wrote makes the
message NO LESS TRUE. Am I right?

B-man

Spitfire,

You have some interesting things to say, but now you are blowing it with generalizations.  You have to try meditation, and other methods for not weeks, but months or years.

Look at Bruce's work on this site.  Partnered exploration where two people visit the same focus level of consciousness, then make independent notes when they are done, and compare the experiences.  Surprising powers and correlations have been found exploring the afterlife this way, with contact and personal information that could not have been known in any other way.  

You seek for logic and objectivity in a subjective realm called consciousness.  How dull it would be if we all saw a white tunnel, all had the same thing as a NDE, all talked with Jesus.  I believe, as many know here, we become what we take with us; there is so much diversity of thought, of course the afterlife will reflect this.  

As different as the accounts you site are, there are several constant universal themes which recur; the golden rule of do unto others, the cultivation and expression of love; the need to help others; the need to explore.  

The great thing about the Monroe institute, and Bruce's work is when you have hundreds or thousands of people focusing their consciousness, and then, giving separate experiences, but verifying some common themes between one and other.

I do not believe that letting go of preconceptions and strict belief in Western science, and being open to the mystical experiences is just using my imagination; I do, however believe that you will not experience the mystical or divine if you want everything to be proved in the material world.

Matthew
Matthew

Well chum...your certaintly a breath of fresh air. logical deduction.....such a rare thing here.

Yea, i can accept that if re-incarnation is proved, but then also comes in, what is the point?
*****************
What is the point of ANYTHING, Spit? I'm sure
you'll agree that there just as easily could be
Nothing, as Something.
So perhaps we're all just like ants, in a pointless
universe/multiverse where reincarnation just "is", much as
the plasma state of a gas, produces a flame in
nature. The whole "PUL" business may simply
be the result of humans doing what they do best...
ANTHROPOMORPHIZING a basically "neutral"
phenomenon (i.e., the continuity of consciousness.)
Makes it a lot less scary for a lot of folks...
Why does "Reality" (whatever it is) need
to have a point at all?

B-man

wrote on Jan 16^th, 2006 at 8:44pm:

Spitfire, You have some interesting things to say, but now you are blowing it with generalizations.  You have to try meditation, and other methods for not weeks, but months or years. Look at Bruce's work on this site.  Partnered exploration where two people visit the same focus level of consciousness, then make independent notes when they are done, and compare the experiences.  Surprising powers and correlations have been found exploring the afterlife this way, with contact and personal information that could not have been known in any other way.   You seek for logic and objectivity in a subjective realm called consciousness.  How dull it would be if we all saw a white tunnel, all had the same thing as a NDE, all talked with Jesus.  I believe, as many know here, we become what we take with us; there is so much diversity of thought, of course the afterlife will reflect this.   As different as the accounts you site are, there are several constant universal themes which recur; the golden rule of do unto others, the cultivation and expression of love; the need to help others; the need to explore.   The great thing about the Monroe institute, and Bruce's work is when you have hundreds or thousands of people focusing their consciousness, and then, giving separate experiences, but verifying some common themes between one and other. I do not believe that letting go of preconceptions and strict belief in Western science, and being open to the mystical experiences is just using my imagination; I do, however believe that you will not experience the mystical or divine if you want everything to be proved in the material world. Matthew Matthew

I just want to be plugged into a machine - zapped -and visit the afterlife.

Im making generalisations, because people who claim to visit the afterlife, cannot give the most basic reponse's to questions, nor can i find evidence based upon quantifiable data. Thus leading me down the path of.

1.) they dont want to tell you.
2.) they cant tell you.

Either way, they are rubbing me the wrong way.

I want to see the data which has been passed....i wanna see bruce stuck under a camera and another person stuck under a camera and a message passed between them....and i want them to be paid a large sum of money for it. It's the ultimate proof that something paranormal exists. Yet not 1 out of the thousands of people who claim to have obe's would dare try.

Thus leading me down the path of.

1.) They cant do it.
2.) They wont do it.

Either way, they are aggroing me.

I want everyone to follow the same path. Everyone see's a tunnel, but everyone visits a different destination.

If we are reincarnated....love/morals....dont matter to ants. Yet...90% of people who have obe's claim we are re-incarnated....but were did we come from before the human race began....questions to which they supposedley have access to the answer, but aint bothered to get it/or they dont know it. But they can tell you exactley how they have mystical experiences...and how times slowing down....but why is there never ever ever.....proof. It aint much to ask for.

The common themes between people....are not common enough for me, you think of the sun, we can get a list together of things we think of, chances are alot of them will be matched. Oobe's go totally loco. i was an elephant retriving people from the asain tsunami.....i was on a different planet, it was inhabited by umpa lumpa's. I went to hell....i went for a life review.

99.9% of mystical experience's turn out to be the brain making something out of nothing....a full town in the usa thought they saw an alien space craft, turned out the military was dropping flares.

Show me something paranormal. I will listen, tell me something only i could know, i would be shocked. If i saw a ghost, belief you and me, i would soon look into ways of prooving it was real. but since ive never had anything remotely paranormal/spiritual occur to me. All i have is the evidence to which i collect, but the source's are often like mutes locked into a cycle - or no proof is needed.

Btw, sorry for ranting. Im just cranky, no answers...no one who is willing/can answer. And the fact - so many people are happy living there life without proving anything.

And you put matt, twice matt ^+  :)

wrote on Jan 16^th, 2006 at 8:56pm:

Well chum...your certaintly a breath of fresh air. logical deduction.....such a rare thing here. Yea, i can accept that if re-incarnation is proved, but then also comes in, what is the point? ***************** What is the point of ANYTHING, Spit? I'm sure you'll agree that there just as easily could be Nothing, as Something. So perhaps we're all just like ants, in a pointless universe/multiverse where reincarnation just "is", much as the plasma state of a gas, produces a flame in nature. The whole "PUL" business may simply be the result of humans doing what they do best... ANTHROPOMORPHIZING a basically "neutral" phenomenon (i.e., the continuity of consciousness.) Makes it a lot less scary for a lot of folks... Why does "Reality" (whatever it is) need to have a point at all? B-man

Good point.

Then again.
If the afterlife is there. All well and good, if it aint i wont be around to care about it.

[quote author=Spitfire link=board=afterlife_knowledge;num=1137375117;start=30#37 date=01/16/06 at 20:19:22]

I just want to be plugged into a machine - zapped -and visit the afterlife.
*******************************
Got $590.00 to burn?
Here's your "machine" (tinfoil-lined baseball cap not
included.)

http://www.futurehorizons.net/time2.htm

At the top of the page, there's some links... go to
the "time travel" link, and check out some of their other stuff (a good pic of the "hyperdimensional resonator" is shown, along with price and ordering info, at the bottom of the linked page.)
Would it work? Who knows. (But then, I just LOVE "cranky science." How 'bout you?)

B-man

Spit, You imply that because chumley agrees with your point about population increase he brings fresh air by being logical. I agree with your point that the population increase is a mystery but trying to think ideas that are not based on the pure science of what we know today does not make them illogical.

You look for hard facts, black or white yet even todays science doesnt work like that. Medical research and discovery relies heavily on statistical graphs and charts to deduce the affect of medicine on patients. I admit I dont know a great deal about this area but I was listening to a audio recording of a debate on telepathy with Rupert Sheldrake. At one point he produced a stat graph showing the results of one of he's experiments. He made the point that the stat deviation from normal chance for Aspirin on the heart is less than the graph he was showing!. That is pretty crazy.

If other areas of science are getting results from statistical analysis surely we should look at this method of gathering and showing data in the less accepted science areas?

I can give you a link to the debate if you like.

Im not trying to attack you even if i do make a dig from time to time. But in some areas you are not even listening to what i am saying. NDE's have consistant recurring themes in them which are obvious if you read many of them.

I am still learning and reading myself. But dont approach things the way you do as many discoveries are made not using the yes/no theory which you wish to evaluate paranormal activity on.

If you make this into a your right and im wrong game of tennis neither of us win. Im trying to learn and I think you are too.

Spit not every OOBE or NDE features a tunnel or Jesus or allah.  You really need to stop generalizing and look at every single aspect of the subject before you cast judgement.

One of the most famous NDEs of all time involved a woman called Pam Reynolds, who had a very serious brain operation and was clinicly dead on the operating table + no blood was in her brain as it was all drained from her head as part of the procedure.  If all NDEs are products of a dying brain then how do you explain that this woman was able to give detialed descriptions of the operations procedures without any prior knowledge of the operation's intricate procedures.  She was even able to describe what was happening on the hospital's wards precisely and pointed out that there was an old trainer in the stock room, she gave it's precise colours and its appearence.  There are many noteable NDE experiences that have been recorded even group NDEs.  Not every NDE involves a tunnel or Jesus.  And Pam Reynolds said that she was an athiest before the NDe that she had

Spit do you honestly believe that all the knowledge that has been found on this area is available???  Probably not as this info has been surpressed since time immorial, just use your brain to find out why this info is surpressed.

Link to Pam Reynolds NDE
http://www.near-death.com/experiences/evidence01.html

What if evolution is powered by wishes and imagination?What if a lizard wants fruit high in a tree and wishes so hard for it that when he dies the wishes and imagining that fruit are still stuck with him, so he comes back alittle taller, then again it happens (in lizard time not such long life spans) and his legs are longer, and N to the nth power later of lives, he's back as a bird? And not just any bird but a bird with a memory/ instinct that tells him that  intense wishes/imaginings/prayers do come true?
What if Einstein didn't prove his theories but imagined them into being?  Then the engineers came in and imagined what technology could be based upon the truths that Eistein imaged into being?
What if being human is just a general term and many stages of evolution exist within that one (or any one) species? What if what is being imagined here by everyone is helping evolve the human species ?!

wrote on Jan 17^th, 2006 at 8:33am:

What if evolution is powered by wishes and imagination?What if a lizard wants fruit high in a tree and wishes so hard for it that when he dies the wishes and imagining that fruit are still stuck with him, so he comes back alittle taller, then again it happens (in lizard time not such long life spans) and his legs are longer, and N to the nth power later of lives, he's back as a bird? And not just any bird but a bird with a memory/ instinct that tells him that  intense wishes/imaginings/prayers do come true? What if Einstein didn't prove his theories but imagined them into being?  Then the engineers came in and imagined what technology could be based upon the truths that Eistein imaged into being? What if being human is just a general term and many stages of evolution exist within that one (or any one) species? What if what is being imagined here by everyone is helping evolve the human species ?!

I mostly agree with this statement by bets, though I wouldn't use the same words.  There was a time our consciousness was happy with the entertainment of being a one cell organism.  It involved dimensions we weren't accustomed to and allowed us to experience new things we couldn't get to as spiritual beings.  Obviously, after a few rounds as an ameoba we got sorta bored, and thought of new ways to use physical dimensions to get more out of them.  Eventually we were staring at the fruit up in the tree thinking it would be a great advantage if we could get to it.  

I think we have evolution because we had no idea where we were going with physical form when we first decided to go there.  Hence it has evolved, as, no doubt, our spiritual existance and consciousness have evolved and become better for our experiment.  

As for matching up souls, spirits, and human bodies in terms of numbers.  It makes for interesting discussion, but is probably over-complicating something that will seem silly when we find out the truth of it.  That's not an explanation, because I really have no theory I'm satisfied with on that one.  Generally, I find things to be far simpler than I first conceive of them when I'm missing a lot of information.

Regarding a trip to the afterlife and back.  This is like climbing a mountain.  Everest may have first been climbed in 1923, but Mallory and Irvine didn't live to make the return trip.  Just like the afterlife right now.  You  can go, but you can't come back and tell anyone about it.  Then in 1953 Hillary and Norgay actually made it there and back, and told everyone about it.  Subsequently, only a thousand people have made it there and back, and over a hundred died trying.  I'm not too surprised that no one has made it back from the afterlife to tell us about it.  We only just did it on Everest ( a comparitively easy 3 D earthly realm) a mere 50 years ago.  I wouldn't be surprised if it took us another 500 years to get good information about the afterlife on a regular basis - and even then it will be only about certain parts of it and some will probably die trying.  I think it will be that difficult to obtain, and like mountain climbing, not many will think it's worth the risk.  Even those who make it there and back will have a lot of trouble explaining it to others - just like mountain climbing.  I take pictures, tell stories, and try to capture the feeling of climbing big mountains, but people generally don't get it.  Partly it's due to my complete lack of the tools to explain it, and partly because people just can't relate to experiences that get farther from the normal human experience.

To borrow Chumley's method of replacing Christian figures with others, and to borrow Bud S's method of giving a well thought out report, I'll attempt this:
Hey Spitfire,
I know you dislike anthropomorphizing God and I respect your suspicions of the sentimentalized meaning of the word Love, even if divinely inspired, so try this one from astrophysics 001:
You are a speck of stardust, as we all are. We are not inert consciousless specks, however, as we have been magnetized by a great Force. Even ant-sized specks have been magnetized in an ant-sized way.
We and all matters around us have been magnetized and are returning to our Source, the great Force.
The great Force gave us consciousness of our journey by sharing Its limitless Intelligence. The closest we can describe this great intelligence is by calling it Imagining. That gave us things to see along the way.
We become more like the Force and are drawn to it more rapidly when we imagine too, when we imagine fearlessly about any mysteries that come our way.
When we imagine fearlessly,we increase our likeness to the great Force. This increases our magnetism, thus moving us more quickly through the heavens back to the Force. This helps PUL/pull others along with us.  This process is known as 'brotherly lo— ehr, brotherly magnetism. We all move together in giant spirals heading to the NNE.
Individual specks can get caught in down-drafts and cross-currents.  That makes the journey interesting.
But eventually they'll get caught up in the Force again--it's as wide as the universe and unescapable.
Going the wrong way is a terrible sensation. In some language it has been called 'fear.' Some stardust really takes a tumble in these down-drafts of fear-sensation and tries to take others with them.( I'll call such a speck near me Rev. T.) They set up a field of fear so strong that those near them cannot feel the divine PUL of the Force. Someday they'll break free or come up against counter-forces that will put them back on track.
lo'm', bets

About generalising.

Everyone generalise's, and i mean everyone.

You see a 30 stone man....do you think he is a top marathon runner? do you think theres ever been a 30 stone top marathon runner?. chances are 99.9% of them ar'nt gonna be marathon runners. Thus, it's a well justified assumption.

Im seeing people who claim to have oobe's on regular occasion's and people who claim to be "psychic" as people who are looking for a way to explain stuff whats happenend in there life. Thus rejecting all logical reasoning, and seeking out a paranormal reason for things that happen. Not to mention the lack of talent in any area, thus resulting to them having to make stuff up/Make something out of nothing.

Nothing i hate worse then liars, apart from cowards.

Now, i know people are gonna say...this is untrue etc etc. But it's what i believe, go visit 50 different psychics - 45+ will be complete frauds.

Theres 1000's upon thousands of people who claim to be "psychic" and have "obe's". Yet why dont they prove something for once, instead of getting rich off books/newspaper articals.

If they truely believed in PUL...and proving the existance of the afterlife, they would be mercyless in there pursuit of this goal. Yet all they seem to do is sit around patting each other on the back because they are so good at imagining stuff.

This full area is full of hypocrits and blood sucking leech's.

I for one, would die for what i believe. If you belived in the afterlfie so strongley - you should put everything you have into it. If not - you dont have the right to complain about everything you claim is wrong with the world, when your to dam lazy to change anything.

Now this post is'nt aimed at anyone in particular. It's just something for people who claim to be little angels of light to think about, while there sucking up to each other after afternoon meditation.

Be assured if i ever find good proof for the afterlife. I'll share it with you. And with the world.

everything i have experienced is true i,ve no reason to lie about paranormal experiences and yes i dont have a very good life i,v faced a lot of hurt in my life but that has got nothing to do with having paranormal experiences and anyway i like to know that my dad is in a beautiful  place it makes me feel better i think idf you had your own paranormal experience you wouldnt be so quick to judge people what have had one  i dont like it when these so called scientists go on about the way us humans were made they think they know everything but they dont i dont care how many studies theyve done i believe in god jesus and the spirit world  and i always will deanna

wrote on Jan 18^th, 2006 at 6:07pm:

everything i have experienced is true i,ve no reason to lie about paranormal experiences and yes i dont have a very good life i,v faced a lot of hurt in my life but that has got nothing to do with having paranormal experiences and anyway i like to know that my dad is in a beautiful  place it makes me feel better i think idf you had your own paranormal experience you wouldnt be so quick to judge people what have had one  i dont like it when these so called scientists go on about the way us humans were made they think they know everything but they dont i dont care how many studies theyve done i believe in god jesus and the spirit world  and i always will deanna

If a magician Made an elephant disappear, would you think it the will of god or a parlor trick?

Why do you believe in jesus and god? have you met them? Have you experienced anything paranormal...or are you just relying on what others have told you?

Maybe they tell you such things to make you feel better?

hi spitfire firstly if a magician made an elephant dissapear i,d think well hes a good magician he should go far  in the television world  the reason i believe in jesus and god  and the spirit world because i have had paranormal things happen to me and also i need god in my life i am going throgh a tough time at the moment and its nice to know that god is there for me if nobody else is  and when i go to the spiritualist church on sundays they have a different medium every week and i get messages from my dad and the messages are pretty accurate deanna

wrote on Jan 18^th, 2006 at 6:51pm:

hi spitfire firstly if a magician made an elephant dissapear i,d think well hes a good magician he should go far  in the television world  the reason i believe in jesus and god  and the spirit world because i have had paranormal things happen to me and also i need god in my life i am going throgh a tough time at the moment and its nice to know that god is there for me if nobody else is  and when i go to the spiritualist church on sundays they have a different medium every week and i get messages from my dad and the messages are pretty accurate deanna

Have you ever heard of cold reading? They can give as good as any psychic.

You may have had paranormal things happen to you...but was it jesus or god doing these things? how do you know? You know the church is against mediumship?

You dont need god or jesus in your life, Your stronger then you realise. Take pride from the fact, and dont put your faith in properganda.

Quote:

a recent tv program, took 2000 psychics and tested them, and got it down to 6 in the end. These 6 crackpots....could'nt tell  which 2 woman out of 10 were pregnant....They then took 5 married couples and asked them to match them.....once again the so called psychic's did worse then if someone guessed.

Spitfire,
I have been enjoying your post for a while now. Some members here don't get british good old sarcasm but I do.
Anyway, it's just so great the way you try to prove the afterlife to yourself. You keep on exposing your personal doubts in hope that someone here can tear them apart but they never will and you know that. I don't think your heart is open to that.
Why would you only tell about the negative points in the tv program with the psychics? Why wasn't it worth to mention the psychic able to match up all five couples and all the validations offered about the WWII pub by all of them. Specially the woman who made the bartender cry giving details of his dead friend. You are not being impartial here.
I have doubts myself but my heart is open.
Skeptics will be skeptics and I have the proof at home living with me. My partner is so clueless about spirituality that it wouldn't surprise me if in a previous life he had been the ant you speak about in one of your post. If you look up skeptic in the dictionary there next to the definition is a picture of my partner, even though on Dec 00 he got first hand validation of the afterlife.
His granddad was dying and as he visited with him during his last few hours he told him that he knew he was dying because they had come to get him.
Now, we are talking of someone (the granddad) living in a 5 house village in the middle of nowhere with no running water, where electricity gets cut off in the early evening. He grew up in a country separated from the world by its communist government and ghosts to him are inhabitants of the forest that can make people crazy and have been known to kill as well. It will be decades before anyone can introduce new age ideas to these people however they do get to experience things like parting visions.
I would have thought that kind of validation would change my partner's mind but it hasn't. Skeptic will always look for the fifth leg of the cat instead of just accepting the evidence. I think you are the same and probably won't open your heart until you are dead, and can experience the afterlife for yourself.
When I think about it I feel that parting vision should have been witnessed by me. I so wish it had been me but as they say God give bread to the toothless.

Peace.

SC    

Isnt the proper gadgetry unavailable to scientifically decipher a pyschic event properly?

Unless you mean b.s detector, err..

What you have to look for and pay attention to is its genuineness of information. And the amount of distortion within the information.
Thats what psychic activity is, inner communication  of information.
Though the problem is, or else we would all be psychics, which we are, the problem is that no one pays attention to their communications.
Though doing so will avail to you information. Actions.
call it what you will....esp, telekinesis, intuition, a hunch, for sight, bi-locationality, precognition...and on.
We are a species that is evolving, if you like that word, though it holds distortion. We are very much not evolving, though it could appear that way.
We are not evolving. We are uncovering ancient ruins, we are uncovering our heritage. Which is a knowledge.
Which comes from trusting your self, and opening up to your communications and tuning into them for information and uncovering yourself with them.

Though only thing left to evolve from is the distortion in our information, especially the distortions that have you believing your not already psychic. Or possess all those talents.
Its largely about the suggestions you offer yourself , anyway:)

spitfire everyone needs someone in their life who they can turn to in times of trouble its not so lonely then. deanna.

wrote on Jan 18^th, 2006 at 8:47pm:

Spitfire, I have been enjoying your post for a while now. Some members here don't get british good old sarcasm but I do. Anyway, it's just so great the way you try to prove the afterlife to yourself. You keep on exposing your personal doubts in hope that someone here can tear them apart but they never will and you know that. I don't think your heart is open to that. Why would you only tell about the negative points in the tv program with the psychics? Why wasn't it worth to mention the psychic able to match up all five couples and all the validations offered about the WWII pub by all of them. Specially the woman who made the bartender cry giving details of his dead friend. You are not being impartial here. I have doubts myself but my heart is open. Skeptics will be skeptics and I have the proof at home living with me. My partner is so clueless about spirituality that it wouldn't surprise me if in a previous life he had been the ant you speak about in one of your post. If you look up skeptic in the dictionary there next to the definition is a picture of my partner, even though on Dec 00 he got first hand validation of the afterlife. His granddad was dying and as he visited with him during his last few hours he told him that he knew he was dying because they had come to get him. Now, we are talking of someone (the granddad) living in a 5 house village in the middle of nowhere with no running water, where electricity gets cut off in the early evening. He grew up in a country separated from the world by its communist government and ghosts to him are inhabitants of the forest that can make people crazy and have been known to kill as well. It will be decades before anyone can introduce new age ideas to these people however they do get to experience things like parting visions. I would have thought that kind of validation would change my partner's mind but it hasn't. Skeptic will always look for the fifth leg of the cat instead of just accepting the evidence. I think you are the same and probably won't open your heart until you are dead, and can experience the afterlife for yourself. When I think about it I feel that parting vision should have been witnessed by me. I so wish it had been me but as they say God give bread to the toothless. Peace. SC

Ello sun,

I am open to proof, but as someone once said extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. What is more importent then proof of the afterlife?..thus is requires firm and solid evidence.

Your right about the psychic program though, i was quite aggroed when i made that post, and did'nt feel like analysing both sides of the argument.

The psychic program was pretty pants though....the pregnant woman and the married couples....they were just guessing. I got more right by logical deduction then they did. these chumps are ment to be the best from 2000 people....it really gives psychics a bad name. They could have researched that pub before going there - and they could feel thats a medal, thus concluding...who gets a medal...military- though the one who made the connection with the guy stood in the room- was more impressive then the other smucks. the pregnant woman should have scored 100% in my views for them to rpove they had some talent. But anyway im hoping for some better tests this week :).

When the brain starts shutting down, it starts to imagine things....i remember when my grandmother was in hospital on the verge of death, she said she saw aliens behind her bed?...

I would'nt call that proof though, because it's to easily explainable.

your right though, theres a line inbetween skeptics and psychics.... a psychic feels a breeze and says theres jesus is in the room....while a skeptic has I AM ALIVE carved into there living room wall and thinks a can of paint as exploded during the middle of the night.

I do think 99.9% of psychics are fake though. But, theres 1 psychic i know - to which i have alot of faith in the abilities of, and his name is gorden smith, aka "the psychic barber". He does'nt say...i have someone here who loves you....yada yada. He's like "i have a young man here". "his name is steve" - "he died quickly in a traffic accident" - "your his mother doris ar'nt you".

Now thats what i call impressive. This is the type of proof, i can believe and defend.

If i put all my money on 1 bet on a roulette wheel based on a drunks advice, i would be a fool. Thats how i feel alot of the times....because people who have obe's are like the drunk, but there high on love juice and self dellusion. ( apart from a few, DocM, Justin, Bets).

If i placed my bet all on 1 number of a roulette wheel when it's landed on the same number for  the past 100,000 spins, i would say thats a good bet.

It's just....massively life altering...and such a massive claim, needs massive proof. I hope i find it:).

Thanks for your reply.
-Spit-

wrote on Jan 19^th, 2006 at 9:24am:

I am open to proof.... Ok that would be cool as you would look at both sides and be subjective, thats the best way to be and .... Your right about the psychic program though, i was quite aggroed when i made that post, and did'nt feel like analysing both sides of the argument.. :o   O...k , what Happened to your first sentence about being open to proof? When the brain starts shutting down, it starts to imagine things....i remember when my grandmother was in hospital on the verge of death, she said she saw aliens behind her bed?... I would'nt call that proof though, because it's to easily explainable. is it? Why would she see aliens? Perhaps because her physical brain was seeing something that was "alien" to her? Mate, can you so easily dismiss that event? Were you present, can you remember more of what she said?

wrote on Jan 19^th, 2006 at 9:50am:

Ok that would be cool as you would look at both sides and be subjective, thats the best way to be and .... O...k , what Happened to your first sentence about being open to proof?

My judgement may have been rash, but it was still correct. The negatives out weighed the pro's by a long way, anyone who watched it. Would understand, they looked like clowns. I am open...as you can see.....i even re-evaluated what i put...


Quote:

is it?   Why would she see aliens? Perhaps because her physical brain was seeing something that was "alien" to her? Mate, can you so easily dismiss that event? Were you present, can you remember more of what she said?

i was present yea....she was off the rockers....she was screaming abuse at her son in between mumbling about the nurse's abusing her and the alien behind her bed.

The alien was a brain enduced illusion. She saw loads of things, and when she got better - never had any problems with them again.

it's like saying a kid goes around smashing gravestones because of the way he was raised - but the main fact was he was a heroin addict, and it was affecting his brain.

Edit: Btw, if you copy and paste the section of test you wish to add a comment to. and then put ["Quote"] at the begining and ["/quote"] at the end, both without the speech marks, you can quote the text, and slap your reply under the quotes.

wrote on Jan 19^th, 2006 at 10:43am:

i was present yea....she was off the rockers....she was screaming abuse at her son in between mumbling about the nurse's abusing her and the alien behind her bed. The alien was a brain enduced illusion. She saw loads of things, and when she got better - never had any problems with them again.

Spitfire, speculate if you will on the following two items:
-From your perspective of a 1st hand witness of someone you know seeing an alien, what evolutionary advantage do you suppose such illusions have?  

-Also, what natural selection mechanism gave rise to the ability to see said aliens no one else was seeing?

I'm trying to get to your position on the many useless capabilities of the human brain - capabilities that have nothing to do with surviving till breeding age and passing on genes.  I'm not arguing either way for the reasons, I just find it fascinating trying to figure out why these things arise, and whether our fellow mammals see alien equivalents in times of duress/sickness, if it has some purpose, or just an unfortunate neural side effect.

wrote on Jan 19^th, 2006 at 11:18am:

Spitfire, speculate if you will on the following two items: -From your perspective of a 1st hand witness of someone you know seeing an alien, what evolutionary advantage do you suppose such illusions have?   -Also, what natural selection mechanism gave rise to the ability to see said aliens no one else was seeing? I'm trying to get to your position on the many useless capabilities of the human brain - capabilities that have nothing to do with surviving till breeding age and passing on genes.  I'm not arguing either way for the reasons, I just find it fascinating trying to figure out why these things arise, and whether our fellow mammals see alien equivalents in times of duress/sickness, if it has some purpose, or just an unfortunate neural side effect.

Ive got a book, about the universe being holographic in nature.

A scientist. Cut out different segments of rats brain, and also later on with humans who had eplilepsy, and he found you can remove up to 90% of someone/somethings brain. Without memory being eradicated. A hologram can be broken down into 100 fragments, but each fragment will give you the whole image just 100 times smaller. He thought the brain operated this way, because as he stimulated areas of the brain in people - he found he could activate memory's by firing electrodes into any area of the brain. He thinks everytime you learn something it is cascaded like a stone thrown into a pond and the ripples send the infomation to every cell in your brain.

Only when the control centre's, which control movement - speech etc are damaged that the infomation thats contained cannot be expressed physically like a normal person can.

Thus when the brain is shutting down/not getting enough oxygen, the control centre cant access the infomation required as it normally would, thus leading to delusions. and hallucinations.

Spitfire,

There is also another explanation of Lashley's experiments with rats (he burned their brains, in many parts, but they still remembered a maze).  

1.  If consciousness is not created by the physical brain, but the brain is a receiver, you could also destroy certain segments of the receiver but not affect specific memory.

So the holographic idea, while interesting may be off.  The idea may be that our entire physical structure is infused with our consciousness; that "we" our essence, and our memory are not just created by our bodies.

My take.

Matthew

wrote on Jan 19^th, 2006 at 11:59am:

Thus when the brain is shutting down/not getting enough oxygen, the control centre cant access the infomation required as it normally would, thus leading to delusions. and hallucinations.

So is it your position the brain in it's oxygen deprived state resorts to a more energy intense activity such as imagining new and different things?  Why would it not resort to lower life support functions and not waste resources on higher brain function?  Doesn't seem very consistent with an evolved survival advantage does it?  (I know it's a null hypothesis, but I'm not trying to prove anything)

wrote on Jan 19^th, 2006 at 12:20pm:

So is it your position the brain in it's oxygen deprived state resorts to a more energy intense activity such as imagining new and different things?  Why would it not resort to lower life support functions and not waste resources on higher brain function?  Doesn't seem very consistent with an evolved survival advantage does it?  (I know it's a null hypothesis, but I'm not trying to prove anything)

Recalling memory's cannot be that energy intensive, because we use it none stop 24 hours a day. Even while dreaming. We use it even if were starving. Also if it's true that the brain is mearly a reciver, then the consciousness must power it'self somehow without the use of food....otherwise we could'nt exist outside the confines of the body thus the afterlife would not be possible.

No working memory, = no previous experience of were to find food/water. No idea how to catch food. No idea of possible dangers, to which you could have encountered before.

memory is almost as vital as water is.

wrote on Jan 19^th, 2006 at 12:51pm:

Recalling memory's cannot be that energy intensive, because we use it none stop 24 hours a day. Even while dreaming. We use it even if were starving. Also if it's true that the brain is mearly a reciver, then the consciousness must power it'self somehow without the use of food....otherwise we could'nt exist outside the confines of the body thus the afterlife would not be possible. No working memory, = no previous experience of were to find food/water. No idea how to catch food. No idea of possible dangers, to which you could have encountered before. memory is almost as vital as water is.

Actually using one's brain is very energy intensive.  The brain is full of sugar and it uses it when intently thinking, especially creatively and when memorizing.  Didn't you ever get really really hungry when studying for an exam?  It used to happen to me all the time, I felt like I'd had a physical workout.  Those neurons don't fire for free.  That's why low blood sugar causes confusion and poor judgement.  

So here's the brain, deprived of the two things it vitally needs, energy and oxygen, and it decides to take a little side trip to fantasy land.  I think there's more to this than oxygen deprivation.  I've been deprived of oxygen till I passed out before, and partially deprived many times at altitude, and while it was euphoric, I didn't have any halucinations or delusions at all.  Although at altitude I have some fairly crazy dreams.  I wouldn't argue that dreams are caused by oxygen deprivation though.  So how does that work?  Have you considered that halucinations or delusions could be manifestations of knowledge rather than mere misfirings?  In other words, memories from places or times other than the person's current situation?  So there may not be an alien behind the bed, but maybe the old girl knew the little critter back on Beta 5 in grade school? .... in a galaxy far far away?  I'm just messing with you, but I find it raises more questions than are easily settled with "just delusions" conclusion.

wrote on Jan 19^th, 2006 at 12:51pm:

Recalling memory's cannot be that energy intensive, because we use it none stop 24 hours a day. Even while dreaming. We use it even if were starving. Also if it's true that the brain is mearly a reciver, then the consciousness must power it'self somehow without the use of food....otherwise we could'nt exist outside the confines of the body thus the afterlife would not be possible. No working memory, = no previous experience of were to find food/water. No idea how to catch food. No idea of possible dangers, to which you could have encountered before. memory is almost as vital as water is.

 Hi there SpitFire,

 Have you ever read "The Field" by Lynne Taggart, its a very interesting book along the lines of brain vs. consciousness, and its mostly pretty scientific in that much of the data comes from real scientists and experiments.  

 Anyways, while i respect science, and believe left brain reasoning is very important, i can't help but think its just half of the yummy pie...

 For example, according to science i should be wasting away right now, very weak, tired, and body should start to fall apart about..around now.

For the last 2 months, i've been eating very, very, very little compared to the 'norm'...  My caloric intake is waayyyy below my caloric burning and energy expenditure.

 While i have lost some weight since this, i've lost surprisingly little overall, nor was i even close to fat or even chubby before this.  I have on average, about one small meal every other day (somedays a little more, some periods less).

 Most nutritionists etc., types, would say "oh my goodness, you're going to break down pretty soon, you must be very tired, mental capacity slowing down, etc. etc.?"

 Nope, feel great, in fact i feel better than i ever did, and my mental facilities seem sharper and clearer.  

 I have plenty of energy, i run everyother day, plus walk with Becky sometimes, do chores around the house, and up till a little while ago, had a fairly physical job where i usually worked up a sweat...

 So where is the energy coming from?  I posit that its coming from, and i'm getting more receptive to the energy of consciousness.

 How would science explain this, since i seem to be past the primarily fat burning reserve phase?

btw--for the record, this is not something i set out to do like ala David Blaine style, but rather was a natural occurance of losing my appetite and attachment to food... Meaning its not something i tried to force to happen.  I definitely don't recommend people trying this out.  This is potentially very dangerous to the body as many people who have had anorexia or bulemia have shown by the damage to their bodies.

btw-- I know that Cayce book is probably very boring and overly 'bible fundamental' at first, but stick to it if you can, there are some very interesting accounts in there of some amazingly consistent accurate psychic perception and verifications...

 You don't need to believe in the bible, Jesus, God, etc. to get something out of it...  Personally i found Cayce's emphasis on the bible pretty tedious myself at first, and its important to note that Cayce's Source definitely indicated that the bible has been edited, filtered, and/or is symbolic in points where people take it literally, etc.

 Update for Da SpitMan:

 Was thinking about stuff, and i don't know why i had said '2 months', now that i think about it, its been closer to 3, almost 4 months now.  I don't pay much attention to time lately, most of the time, don't know what day it is. ::)  

 Either way, that book i mentioned is one of the best books relating science to spiritual or consciousness concepts i've ever read.

 If i remember correctly, DocM said he read it and liked it a lot too?

Nope, i hav'nt read that book - i'll have a look at it once i finish edgar cayce.

I dont respect science/tists much myself. Only if i can logically justify there results to myself do they become meaningful.

People have survived at sea for 150 days + with little food and water, yet the pull through the odds.

Scientists are far to primitive when it comes to understanding the human body. As i have said before, they never cure....just focus on damage mangment. Ultimately your body heals itself.

@Bud.

It's funny you should mention sugar, my grandmother was a type 1 diebetic. She was very confused + the delusions (as i would describe them). As a result of her condition- and not eating properly.

You must agree though, that our memory is vital to our survival? and that it is kept active, while other things are shutting down?

I could go into looking at deeper cause's of why my grandmother was seeing things, but sometimes the simplist explanations are often the correct ones. Until some pucca evidence pops up, i'll stick with it.

wrote on Jan 20^th, 2006 at 1:24pm:

Nope, i hav'nt read that book - i'll have a look at it once i finish edgar cayce. I dont respect science/tists much myself. Only if i can logically justify there results to myself do they become meaningful. People have survived at sea for 150 days + with little food and water, yet the pull through the odds.

 True enough, but consider this, i'm getting near the 120 day mark, but people out to sea for that long tend not to expend much energy, sleep A LOT, and unfortunately just kind of have to wait around for someone to find them...  They might try swimming or paddling for the first week or two, but often they just hope somebody will come close.  Hence the whole "energy expenditure" and caloric burning much, much higher than caloric intake in my case.

 I'm sure if i sat in one place and meditated constantly, i could stop eating altogether for quite awhile, but i'm not interested in that ;)  


Quote:

Scientists are far to primitive when it comes to understanding the human body. As i have said before, they never cure....just focus on damage mangment. Ultimately your body heals itself.

 Yup, very much agree.   I dunno how true it is, but in Autobiography of A Yogi by Yogannanda, he talks about going to meet a woman who doesn't eat at all, and hasn't for many years.   Again, there is no deep verification here, but there have been accounts here and there of similar things.  A Chiropractor who wrote an interesting book called "Alkalize or Die" wrote about his travels around the world, and meeting a man in India who backed up his claim that he was 140, though he didn't look a day a fairly healthy 70.

 I once read about a well known Chinese herbalist who supposedly lived to 230 something some odd years, but again, who knows?

 This kind of stuff, if it happens, doesn't happen enough for people to seriously consider it.  But its thought provoking at least...

wrote on Jan 20^th, 2006 at 2:48pm:

True enough, but consider this, i'm getting near the 120 day mark, but people out to sea for that long tend not to expend much energy, sleep A LOT, and unfortunately just kind of have to wait around for someone to find them...  They might try swimming or paddling for the first week or two, but often they just hope somebody will come close.  Hence the whole "energy expenditure" and caloric burning much, much higher than caloric intake in my case.  I'm sure if i sat in one place and meditated constantly, i could stop eating altogether for quite awhile, but i'm not interested in that ;)    Yup, very much agree.   I dunno how true it is, but in Autobiography of A Yogi by Yogannanda, he talks about going to meet a woman who doesn't eat at all, and hasn't for many years.   Again, there is no deep verification here, but there have been accounts here and there of similar things.  A Chiropractor who wrote an interesting book called "Alkalize or Die" wrote about his travels around the world, and meeting a man in India who backed up his claim that he was 140, though he didn't look a day a fairly healthy 70.  I once read about a well known Chinese herbalist who supposedly lived to 230 something some odd years, but again, who knows?  This kind of stuff, if it happens, doesn't happen enough for people to seriously consider it.  But its thought provoking at least...

Just so long as one differentiates "survival" from living a healthy low calorie life.  The guys that survive at sea for weeks and weeks are never the same - their kidneys are screwed up, they develop eating disorders, and have mental problems and other nasty conditions.  The low cal lifestyle like the hindis is a different matter.  I'm a high calorie guy myself - AND I know what day of the week it is!  Just kidding Justin, glad you're doing well, be careful, (or you'll lose an eye, blah blah blah, and other stuff your mother told you).