before you are born you are already a spirit in the spirit world  either waiting to be born  on the earth plain or being reincarnated because you have already lived  before  but it is your own choice on both accounts you are still given free will by god in heaven deanna :)

wrote on Jan 15^th, 2006 at 6:31pm:

before you are born you are already a spirit in the spirit world  either waiting to be born  on the earth plain or being reincarnated because you have already lived  before  but it is your own choice on both accounts you are still given free will by god in heaven deanna :)

Or we are advanced monkeys that live once and die off.

Although i like your ideas better - the ones i posted have more evidence behind them.

Hi deanna,

Please tell us more about yourself and how you have arrived at your truth.  I am so interested.

love, blink

hi blink i have learned so much from the spiritualist church i attend ,from the many mediums i have spoken to i have had messages from my dad in the spirit world what the various mediums could not have known and all the things i,ve been told from the mediums from my dad are amazingly true  also i am a great believer in god our father in heaven  i do know that heaven does exist  it is a beautiful place i have lrearned this as well blink before we die we are spirit and after we die our spirit rturns home to heaven  deanna

Hi Deanna,
could you get a glimpse of heaven or the afterlife personally? You know, there are a lot of churches and spiritual communities and they all tell their own truth, so the most interesting things for me always are personal experiences. So, if you have something of that kind, I think many here would like to read it.
Spooky

Quote:

Or we are advanced monkeys that live once and die off.   Although i like your ideas better - the ones i posted have more evidence behind them.

Maybe i am out of the loop, but isnt there a missing link, still?
 So currently, i dont think you have the evidence, if your evidence consists of the most scientifically accepted hypothetical of evolution, mixed with nihilism, with a touch of non-faith.
???

Your the needle in this haystack.

are you not pious before the lord of the planet of the advanced apes?
:)

Imo, evolution and religion ,reincarnation are incorrect...
Though highly inventive! lol

hmmm, amazing nobody made that connection before Darwin....
Its like for thousands of years there were humans exposed to nature, animals,apes and gorrilas and monkeys and amoebas... and no one thought to connect our ancestery with them. Wow.. ya know? never would have guessed...

wrote on Jan 15^th, 2006 at 6:31pm:

before you are born you are already a spirit in the spirit world  either waiting to be born  on the earth plain or being reincarnated because you have already lived  before  but it is your own choice on both accounts you are still given free will by god in heaven deanna :)

http://www.jonasridgeway.com/

http://home.iprimus.com.au/terencem/thisisabbisquestionpage.htm

Take what you want and leave the rest behind.

wrote on Jan 15^th, 2006 at 6:35pm:

Or we are advanced monkeys that live once and die off. Although i like your ideas better - the ones i posted have more evidence behind them.

Sorry but i dont see how evolution means lack of a soul?

Perhaps you can explain to me how all our ancient civilisations began to develop spiritual ideas and concepts at around the same time without having any contact with one another?

Also I like how the evolution  "evidence" is allowed as a truth because of its sum yet the "evidence" of ESP, NDE's are not allowed.

I dont dispute evolution, however the way it has been collated is similar to the work done by others in areas not as scientifically accepted as evolution.
Why can someone put forward the idea of multiple realities and be credited as a good scientist yet someone like Rupert Sheldrake is discredited even though he has made replicated ESP experiments.

One of our cats often waits for my Mum at the window around an hour before shes due to come in at night. Is it a time awareness based situation?, up to a week ago I would say yes, but now Im not too sure and plan to see what happens in other situations such as when she goes shopping.

Spitfire, you throw blanket statements out in one sentence claiming to be under a skeptic banner yet thanks to the modern view of science im afraid you worship it as a religion whether you know it or not.
True skeptics are not suppose to look at only the opposite view of a theory.

wrote on Jan 16^th, 2006 at 6:21am:

Sorry but i dont see how evolution means lack of a soul? Perhaps you can explain to me how all our ancient civilisations began to develop spiritual ideas and concepts at around the same time without having any contact with one another? Also I like how the evolution  "evidence" is allowed as a truth because of its sum yet the "evidence" of ESP, NDE's are not allowed. I dont dispute evolution, however the way it has been collated is similar to the work done by others in areas not as scientifically accepted as evolution. Why can someone put forward the idea of multiple realities and be credited as a good scientist yet someone like Rupert Sheldrake is discredited even though he has made replicated ESP experiments. One of our cats often waits for my Mum at the window around an hour before shes due to come in at night. Is it a time awareness based situation?, up to a week ago I would say yes, but now Im not too sure and plan to see what happens in other situations such as when she goes shopping. Spitfire, you throw blanket statements out in one sentence claiming to be under a skeptic banner yet thanks to the modern view of science im afraid you worship it as a religion whether you know it or not. True skeptics are not suppose to look at only the opposite view of a theory.

Duplication. there was once only a few hundred thousand of us, now theres 6 billion. Which means the soul as people would call it, is created here if at all. Unless the spirit population multiples?

Different people, had the idea of spirits in different time periods, the eygptions had such belief's 6000 years ago, Celts had them in 1500 bc.

Our brains began to develope the need for answers of the question of whats next? this idea came from us starting to live in community's and people sharing idea's. You going off to a nice place when you die sounds appealing, and as such the idea stuck. 8000 years the idea's been forming, christianity managed to program billions of people in only 2000, so it's only logical the idea of spirit is programmed into our beliefs.

I did'nt say NDE/OBE evidence is'nt allowed, but it's not as good, becuase the results are always varied, people are really quite un willing to prove they have these ability's, these tales often take the form of fairy tale situations, which make them sound like dreams. can i reproduce it for myself? nope

could i got and create a human chimp hybrid? i could with a bit of knowledge, can i look at pictures/factual evidence which is explained to me in a step by step well thought our seris of processes leading to the final result, indeed i can.

Scientists are often asswipes. Cant deny that, they spend most of there like in a lab sniffing cemicals what ya expect?  :o IF you understand there experiments and the results, then you can make your own judgement, and your right about scientists going to town on proof of the afterlife....i dont know why, id think everyone would like to know theres something when we pop off the hook.

Animals have time perception, they know how long it is between meals my dogs will bark the house down, if they hav'nt been fed by a certain time, they can tell when i have been gone a long time because they got loco and jump all over me like puppy's - were as if i have been gone 10 minutes, i'll get a calm tail wag and a sniff.

A true skeptic, would'nt care if you produced jesus christ in front of him, i on the other hand, am open to any evidence - just evidence that's not based on fairy tales, evidence which is reproducable - thats what seperates science from religon.

i take my stand point, my views based on my experience so far in this mortal coil, show me the evidence i will listen/change my mind based on the quality of it.

I doubt a christian would ever believe god does'nt exist though....which makes me more open?

wrote on Jan 16^th, 2006 at 7:25am:

Duplication. there was once only a few hundred thousand of us, now theres 6 billion. Which means the soul as people would call it, is created here if at all. Unless the spirit population multiples? Fair point. But you are assuming Earth is the only basin off life which you cannot do as science says that is unlikely. Plus you cannot talk about time as a factor of population increase as science currently says the dimension of time is an illusion (aspect's experiment on photon communication). Different people, had the idea of spirits in different time periods, the eygptions had such belief's 6000 years ago, Celts had them in 1500 bc. Comparing the Celts with Egypt is like comparing us with the Celts, it does not make sense. It would make more sence to compare the Egyptions with these guys :- 7000 BC -- Emergence of Catal Huyuk, Jarmo and Alosh cultures in the Middle East. The destruction of lush forests may have given rise to myths about the Garden of Eden. (O'Brien, 1985) Our brains began to develope the need for answers of the question of whats next? this idea came from us starting to live in community's and people sharing idea's. You going off to a nice place when you die sounds appealing, and as such the idea stuck. 8000 years the idea's been forming, christianity managed to program billions of people in only 2000, so it's only logical the idea of spirit is programmed into our beliefs. I agree with the possiblity of us a community based species producing these concepts. However science has no evidence yet its acceptable because it suits the religion of science.Besides we are not the only community based species and surely this is a pacifist idea, Evolution is survival of the fittest so surely a culture based on pure reproduction and destruction should have prevailed centuries ago? I did'nt say NDE/OBE evidence is'nt allowed, but it's not as good, becuase the results are always varied, people are really quite un willing to prove they have these ability's, these tales often take the form of fairy tale situations, which make them sound like dreams. can i reproduce it for myself? nope So are the results of scientific experiments, result tolerance is allowed and the experiment is repeated until consistent factors seem to occur. Look at NDE's, death bed visions and peoples who explore the human OBE's. There are consistent themes that even scientists have agreed on. In fact many scientists have accepted that there are recurring themes and are now busy trying to reproduce conditions that take all of these factors into account (They aint doing too great ;D ) could i got and create a human chimp hybrid? i could with a bit of knowledge, can i look at pictures/factual evidence which is explained to me in a step by step well thought our seris of processes leading to the final result, indeed i can. Enough with the Humanzie's already, Im still crying with laughter at the article you posted. How can you continue to say that and yet the article stats that science has proven that the chimp had no "un chimp" factors . Show me another article Scientists are often asswipes. Cant deny that, they spend most of there like in a lab sniffing cemicals what ya expect?  :o IF you understand there experiments and the results, then you can make your own judgement, and your right about scientists going to town on proof of the afterlife....i dont know why, id think everyone would like to know theres something when we pop off the hook. I understand the experiments I study. I often am rubbish with exact numbers, peoples names, dates etc. But I come away with the the overall purpose and result of an experiment. If it seems really interesting (Aspects experiment, Sheldrakes experiments) I will tend to look more thoroughly at them. Your assumption is wrong(IMHO) about people wanting to know there is something. Like I said some people abuse science and many have produced a religion out of it. You can see that when you listen or read what some skeptics have to say.I think some people are more afraid of an open mind than a closed mind and if they can use "modern science belief" as their mind closing mechanism they will do so. If i talked to the catholic church 300 years ago about 6000BC cultures do you think they would accept me? no. If i talked to "Modern science" about string theories, alternative realities and a "god particle" 100 years ago do you think there religion would accept me?no (can you see the similarities? Animals have time perception, they know how long it is between meals my dogs will bark the house down, if they hav'nt been fed by a certain time, they can tell when i have been gone a long time because they got loco and jump all over me like puppy's - were as if i have been gone 10 minutes, i'll get a calm tail wag and a sniff. Exactly, I thought that. But take a look at Sheldrakes work(if you havent already) and consider your dogs behaviour again.  I am in the middle of observing my cat and am not sure either way but I am willing to look at he's behaviour from another perspective and see which has more merits A true skeptic, would'nt care if you produced jesus christ in front of him, i on the other hand, am open to any evidence - just evidence that's not based on fairy tales, evidence which is reproducable - thats what seperates science from religon. I dont know you well enough to comment, so go by the experience of reading your posts. So far the majority I see comes back with an initial statement which is absolute and opposing of the OP. That is not the true job of a skeptic. I doubt a christian would ever believe god does'nt exist though....which makes me more open? Pure randomness is truly the only way someone can "believe" in no god as it is the only option that does contains no intelligent design. Sit back and think about people winning crazy bets, the construction of our universe, the taste of a good meal, the colour of the sky, the position of our moon and it control over the tides, the smell of a flower, a good book or film. Now you have to have pure randomness to account for all that if you believe in no God. The more you consider that, the harder it becomes.

my friend zena is a very wise old lady she has a spirit guide called godolphus ,my dad had just die and i was so sad  ,so zena asked her spirit guide if he could help me in some way so godolphus zenas spirit guide wrote a letter from my dad  to me and my dad said even though he was sad to leave me he was happy where he was he said it was a beautiful place he said he wanted me to move on with my life he said he was back with his other family that has gone to the spirit world i still have this letter and i know it wasnt fake i have seen spirit i have heard spirit as well deanna

Fair point. But you are assuming Earth is the only basin off life which you cannot do as science says that is unlikely. Plus you cannot talk about time as a factor of population increase as science currently says the dimension of time is an illusion (aspect's experiment on photon communication).

Time is'nt an illusion, they cant stop themselves from dieing. They cant go back in time. Time may not exist as it does here, if we do surivive and turn into spirits. But it will still be there.

You can measure time as the space between each thought. The question is, is time as importent to us once dead, as it is when we are alive. I highly doubt it is, because our physical reality is based on time being a key factor in our survival.

Comparing the Celts with Egypt is like comparing us with the Celts, it does not make sense. It would make more sence to compare the Egyptions with these guys :-

7000 BC -- Emergence of Catal Huyuk, Jarmo and Alosh cultures in the Middle East. The destruction of lush forests may have given rise to myths about the Garden of Eden. (O'Brien, 1985)

You said, different people developed spirituality at the same time. i used celts and eygptions because they are 2 different people - and they both developed there own version at different times, aka 5000 year gaps. Both developed spirituality when they started forming close nit groups.

I agree with the possiblity of us a community based species producing these concepts. However science has no evidence yet its acceptable because it suits the religion of science.Besides we are not the only community based species and surely this is a pacifist idea, Evolution is survival of the fittest so surely a culture based on pure reproduction and destruction should have prevailed centuries ago?

Survival of the fittest, dont refer to who can run 500 meters to find food. It is the combination of inteligence, physical fitness, resliance. Immune reposnse.

Humans are not natural born killers, we dont seek out others to kill just because they aint in our community.

You give humans space, a source of food and co-existance is far more peaceful, then it is when you pack humans into community's were others apply there rules upon an individual.

So are the results of scientific experiments, result tolerance is allowed and the experiment is repeated until consistent factors seem to occur. Look at NDE's, death bed visions and peoples who explore the human OBE's. There are consistent themes that even scientists have agreed on. In fact many scientists have accepted that there are recurring themes and are now busy trying to reproduce conditions that take all of these factors into account (They aint doing too great  )

It's true people can have nde's/obe's and can experience "the light". But it does'nt mean it's paranormal. Everyone dreams, but thats not the afterlife. Yet they exist.

Enough with the Humanzie's already, Im still crying with laughter at the article you posted. How can you continue to say that and yet the article stats that science has proven that the chimp had no "un chimp" factors . Show me another article

*sigh*....re-read my post, did i say oliver was a humanzie? no i did not. so you should laugh at yourself, for making such a stupid mistake.

If you even bothered to look, theres even a patent out for a humanzee.

They have enfused our cells with many many animals, so they can carve them up for organ transplants.

Dont worry though....im sure you can find something in the bible which says...on the 6 zillionith day....god created the humanzee....

I understand the experiments I study. I often am rubbish with exact numbers, peoples names, dates etc. But I come away with the the overall purpose and result of an experiment. If it seems really interesting (Aspects experiment, Sheldrakes experiments) I will tend to look more thoroughly at them.  
Your assumption is wrong(IMHO) about people wanting to know there is something. Like I said some people abuse science and many have produced a religion out of it. You can see that when you listen or read what some skeptics have to say.I think some people are more afraid of an open mind than a closed mind and if they can use "modern science belief" as their mind closing mechanism they will do so. If i talked to the catholic church 300 years ago about 6000BC cultures do you think they would accept me? no. If i talked to "Modern science" about string theories, alternative realities and a "god particle" 100 years ago do you think there religion would accept me?no (can you see the similarities?  

Science is the search for the "truth" what ever that may be. Scientists are stuck in there ways, until an experiment/claim can be verified by a number of scientists thus adding to it's credability.

What the hell does IMHO mean?.... and people always want to expand there knowledge, it's what makes us human.

Exactly, I thought that. But take a look at Sheldrakes work(if you havent already) and consider your dogs behaviour again.  I am in the middle of observing my cat and am not sure either way but I am willing to look at he's behaviour from another perspective and see which has more merits

I hav'nt read any of his work, but i'll look him up.

I dont know you well enough to comment, so go by the experience of reading your posts. So far the majority I see comes back with an initial statement which is absolute and opposing of the OP. That is not the true job of a skeptic.  

My views, change when im presented with good, viable evidence which i can verifiy myself. It's unfortunate that not many people value evidence the same wasy i do.

Pure randomness is truly the only way someone can "believe" in no god as it is the only option that does contains no intelligent design. Sit back and think about people winning crazy bets, the construction of our universe, the taste of a good meal, the colour of the sky, the position of our moon and it control over the tides, the smell of a flower, a good book or film. Now you have to have pure randomness to account for all that if you believe in no God. The more you consider that, the harder it becomes.

Nothing random about it, knowledge = reaction = result.

Our knowledge, not gods or anything else's.

We are merely constructed to live in our surroundings. we are part of the universe therefore we survive in it.

Peices of rock hit each other, and form a planet. Our cells hit each other, caused a basic lifeform that lead to us.

We are self evolving/self sustaining. As knowledge increase's so does our ability to control the matter around us.

God aint got nothing to do with it.

Hi Deanna,
good for you that you've got that letter which seems to indicate that your Dad is fine, and your experiences with spirits make it easier for you to believe in the afterlife.
Spooky

wrote on Jan 16^th, 2006 at 1:43am:

Maybe i am out of the loop, but isnt there a missing link, still?  So currently, i dont think you have the evidence, if your evidence consists of the most scientifically accepted hypothetical of evolution, mixed with nihilism, with a touch of non-faith. ??? Your the needle in this haystack. are you not pious before the lord of the planet of the advanced apes? :) Imo, evolution and religion ,reincarnation are incorrect... Though highly inventive! lol hmmm, amazing nobody made that connection before Darwin.... Its like for thousands of years there were humans exposed to nature, animals,apes and gorrilas and monkeys and amoebas... and no one thought to connect our ancestery with them. Wow.. ya know? never would have guessed...

They have found links between us and apes. Not to mention 98% the same dna. + The development of a human/ape hybrid.

So if, evolution is wrong....whats right?

i,m too pretty to have evolved from apes deanna ha-ha

Spitfire,

Seemingly your path and interest are taking part more in the materialitic world and so I suggest you follow the road taken by science into epegenetics. This recognizes a second genetic code that controls the programing and activity of a organisms DNA.
Understanding the unseen is problem that can be mind blowing but an interesting experience.
I wish a good time on this trip if you so choose to take it.
Love,
Richard