;D Hi guys,

My journey of understanding of the soul, spirituality and the afterlife is continuing.

I recently had a few validations by talking to close relatives recently(ish) passed. However I also am having what I can only describe as a "belief system crash".

Anyway the little questions I have are:-

1) When we sleep or are in a coma we experience a period of nothingness, why does logic so harshly
dictate that we should expect this at death?

2) PUL, or any love, is something as a human I pride myself on and closly link with my soul. However, what can I say to people who think it is just an evolution of a species with a focus on society and community.

3) Surely every living creature should have a soul if we do. Surely ants, fish, cats, anything! should have a soul. How does that fit in with everything!?

I know these questions may seem negative, but like I say I am unfortunatly in a state of turmoil at the moment and doubt seems to want to utterly crush me. :'(

Evening Matt,

1) When we sleep or are in a coma we experience a period of nothingness, why does logic so harshly  
dictate that we should expect this at death?

Logic dictates that we should expect nothing, because the proof that something else happens, is often very poor.

If everyone could see ghosts etc, then it would be a more accepted fact that we survive death.

When we sleep parts of our brain switch off. we see nothing, so it's logical to assume that when the brain is no longer functioning, then the person is literally dead. Everything is black and Everything they knew is gone.

2) PUL, or any love, is something as a human I pride myself on and closly link with my soul. However, what can I say to people who think it is just an evolution of a species with a focus on society and community.

I believe Pul, is part of evolution, every act of pul has a physical/psychological reason behind it.

If the brain is damaged, PUL goes straight out the window, it no longer matters.

Theres no PUL, in the animal kingdom - it's eat whoever you want.

The question you need to ask is, how can people who believe in PUL, prove it's not just a physical reaction>?

3) Surely every living creature should have a soul if we do. Surely ants, fish, cats, anything! should have a soul. How does that fit in with everything!?

Good point, if we have a soul it's only logical to think animals have a soul, i have no idea how this fits in.

Unless we dont have a soul and we are merely a random collection of molecules...then it makes sense that we + animals just fade into oblivion.

wrote on Jan 6^th, 2006 at 1:37pm:

Evening Matt, Logic dictates that we should expect nothing, because the proof that something else happens, is often very poor. If everyone could see ghosts etc, then it would be a more accepted fact that we survive death. When we sleep parts of our brain switch off. we see nothing, so it's logical to assume that when the brain is no longer functioning, then the person is literally dead. Everything is black and Everything they knew is gone. However, when we sleep we do dream and parts of our brain are switched off at that time as well. Also, I have looked at some of the NDE stuff out there and some of those experiences seem pretty damm amazing! Another thing is the physical location of memories. I dont claim to know a great deal on the subject but I dont think our current understanding explains how we retain so much knowledge I believe Pul, is part of evolution, every act of pul has a physical/psychological reason behind it. If the brain is damaged, PUL goes straight out the window, it no longer matters. Theres no PUL, in the animal kingdom - it's eat whoever you want. The question you need to ask is, how can people who believe in PUL, prove it's not just a physical reaction>? I dont think we can put a blanket statement on the fact that "every" type of PUL is a case of evolution. Maybe we evolved to better refine something our higher selves are use to. The problem with the argument that people who lose the ability of PUL due to a damaged brain is that it simply means they lost the ability to process an emotion, much like a blind person is unable to process the sense of sight, It doesnt mean that there is no such thing as vision Good point, if we have a soul it's only logical to think animals have a soul, i have no idea how this fits in. Unless we dont have a soul and we are merely a random collection of molecules...then it makes sense that we + animals just fade into oblivion. I am saying that we need to understand all life on this planet and not just ours

The verifications I got by asking for them from a deseased relative still have me confused. I am struggling to understand how I would know the information. There is a chance I heard the objects mentioned in previous years, yet after spending days trying to recall a conversation that would get me to the object I cannot! And I must admit I cannot explain how I got the objects in my mind after I asked for them as I never made the association before  :-/

Does anyone else have views on my questions?

Hello Matt:

I written some responses below. Some were incorporated into the grey area, some further below.


wrote on Jan 6^th, 2006 at 1:21pm:

;D Hi guys, My journey of understanding of the soul, spirituality and the afterlife is continuing. I recently had a few validations by talking to close relatives recently(ish) passed. However I also am having what I can only describe as a "belief system crash". Anyway the little questions I have are:- 1) When we sleep or are in a coma we experience a period of nothingness, why does logic so harshly dictate that we should expect this at death? -We tend to experience only what we're open to experiencing. Falling asleep won't change this. After opening up, I experienced a lot of spiritual things that I didn't use to experience. 2) PUL, or any love, is something as a human I pride myself on and closly link with my soul. However, what can I say to people who think it is just an evolution of a species with a focus on society and community. -If people believe that this universe has a divine source, then they're likely to understand that love also has a diving source. If not, well then, what can you tell them? It's up to them to open up to something beyond their thinking mind. 3) Surely every living creature should have a soul if we do. Surely ants, fish, cats, anything! should have a soul. How does that fit in with everything!? -I can't speak from experience about the above. I have a lot of faith in Rosalind Mcknight's Cosmic Journeys, and one of the spirits she communicated with stated that the consciousness of minerals can evolve to the consciousness of plants, and the consciousness of plants can evolve to the consciousness of uncomplex animal forms, and the consciousness of uncomplex animal forms can evolve into more complex animal forms, and eventually consciousness can evolve to human form. This doesn't mean that all people were minerals, plants and animals at some time. Not at all. The above is just a possibility. I've also read about the above possibility at other places. It could be that things such as heards of animals have a group soul, and they involve in a way that is different than humans. Who's to say that the human way is the only way? Consciousness can become wise and loving in various ways. I know these questions may seem negative, but like I say I am unfortunatly in a state of turmoil at the moment and doubt seems to want to utterly crush me. :'(

-As opposed to tackling the whole World, start with what feels good to you, and try to expand on it. Also, the more you peel away what seems negative, the better you'll feel, and the more energy you'll have to do some more peeling.

Think of life like an artichoke. The more you peel away, the closer you'll get to the good stuff-the heart of the matter.

 Think of life like an artichoke. The more you peel away, the closer you'll get to the good stuff-the heart of the matter.

Good and funny analogy there Recoverer.  Reminds of what Shrek said about Orgiers being like Onions  ;) ;D

 Heart...that's exactly right, the balance...

Hi mattb1000, my thoughts about your questions:


1) Logic dictates only that we can't remember anything from this non-aware timeframe. With this, conclusions can be vary: There really was nothing (death), or there was super-hyper-connection to the universe or God, we just can't remember. Consider the receiver-model of the body: The body might sometimes be knocked-out and therefore we have no access to something which happens in that state when our body works again properly.

2) If you can state honestly that you enjoy love this would be perfect shield against all "It's just ...." statements. You may ask that the same type of shield one can use when someone enjoys for example killing. But, each to his/her own, and we isn't it obvious that those love-type-feelings finally provide much more benefit than other, opposite styles of world-approaches?

3) In my view, animals, plants and the "lower" kingdoms, have more and more less individualistic souls, or, the other way round, they are more dependent and connected to a group soul. Humans are this too, but they are more independent and can be called, compared with animals, a group soul in themselves, due to the much more complex history and more distinct experiences. I got the info, that everything we call living needs a soul, that is a more-than-physical something to keep the living being in physical reality; if the soul leaves the body, there is another one who takes over of a similar level, or the group soul, or there is a degrading (dying) of the body and it's taken over by souls of the lower kingdom.

Continue your journey and tell us what you get :-) !
Spooky

Greetings to Matt.....
Your questions seem to show you caught between the general view of current culture and your newly enlightened view.  You had an awesome experience that you are now scrutinizing. Soon you will trust your new path.
Here's some bits collected from elsewhere , probably at this site. (You might want to read this entire web site--their insights come thru on topics seemingly unrelated to your question.)
1) Logic is only one way we collect knowledge, according to Carl Jung, etc. About 1/2 our brain adds known facts together in a line and comes up with a conclusion we call logical. Our culture is dominantly logical and rewards logic. But we're equipped with another half of our brain to learn by relating/comparing/contrasting experience. If that experience had major impact for you, by comparison it's greater than most other experiences, so you can't really deny its importance.
2) If others have not had such an experience you can't expect them to fully understand what you are saying.
3) Animals show compassion to us and to their own species. For example, elephants and dolphins herded people away from the tsunami disaster. They put their own lives in peril to prod and carry slower humans out of harms way. Wouldn't their selflessness indicate soul?
You got an abrupt wake-up to this world of spirit. Trust yourself. :)

wrote on Jan 9^th, 2006 at 10:43am:

Greetings to Matt..... Your questions seem to show you caught between the general view of current culture and your newly enlightened view.  You had an awesome experience that you are now scrutinizing. Soon you will trust your new path. Here's some bits collected from elsewhere , probably at this site. (You might want to read this entire web site--their insights come thru on topics seemingly unrelated to your question.) 1) Logic is only one way we collect knowledge, according to Carl Jung, etc. About 1/2 our brain adds known facts together in a line and comes up with a conclusion we call logical. Our culture is dominantly logical and rewards logic. But we're equipped with another half of our brain to learn by relating/comparing/contrasting experience. If that experience had major impact for you, by comparison it's greater than most other experiences, so you can't really deny its importance. 2) If others have not had such an experience you can't expect them to fully understand what you are saying. 3) Animals show compassion to us and to their own species. For example, elephants and dolphins herded people away from the tsunami disaster. They put their own lives in peril to prod and carry slower humans out of harms way. Wouldn't their selflessness indicate soul? You got an abrupt wake-up to this world of spirit. Trust yourself. :)

Thanks alot for your input :) Really nice to get peoples feelings on this. I have simply now given up trying to recall the memory that would conceivably get me to either object i was shown, to be honest it was starting to make me ill.

However I continue to explore but from a more distant way. I was getting too many bouts of depression due to what can only be described as my souls immune system over killing my spiritual questions. A cowards way out I admit and maybe not as spiritually effective as seeing this to conclusion.

If Bruce or anyone know an effective way to fight the depression a belief system alteration produces please let me know. I emailed Bruce twice last week but got no answer, I dont want to pester the poor guy so I wont email any more!  ;D

I do plan to focus more on my feelings though and continue to read and listen. I have just gotten hold of some of the Monroe gateway experience stuff I plan to explore my inner self at the very least.

wrote on Jan 6^th, 2006 at 1:21pm:

When we sleep or are in a coma we experience a period of nothingness, why does logic so harshly dictate that we should expect this at death?

Our logical brain tells us that when a body shuts down, so does everything else. However, it's different with mammals, because during their sleep they dream and lucid dream with their astral, or dream, bodies.

http://brain.web-us.com/lucid/luciddreamingFAQ.htm

^^ Brain website confirms we can leave our bodies during lucid dreaming.


wrote on Jan 6^th, 2006 at 1:21pm:

2) PUL, or any love, is something as a human I pride myself on and closly link with my soul. However, what can I say to people who think it is just an evolution of a species with a focus on society and community.

Love, hate, anger, ect, are all healthy emotions that higher animals have. Tigers, lions, dogs, ect, love and hate different things. They love their family and friends, and dislike their natural enemies, ect.

I'm sure our spirits have emotions, too. Since we are on the physical, we use the emotion of love for our families and friends, and dislike for our enemies, ect.


wrote on Jan 6^th, 2006 at 1:21pm:

3) Surely every living creature should have a soul if we do. Surely ants, fish, cats, anything! should have a soul. How does that fit in with everything!?

Yes, it does seem that all living things have a spirit, because I think everything on the physical has an astral counter-part. If the latter isn't true, than anything that can dream (mammals) has an astral body, or spirit.

If you'll notice, your dog and all mammals shake their feet when sleeping, because they are dreaming or lucid dreaming. When dreaming or lucid dreaming, we feel like we are alive, but we aren't. So what makes us alive right now? That's the difference between physical and astral reality. Lucid means transeparent, like spirits.


wrote on Jan 6^th, 2006 at 1:21pm:

I know these questions may seem negative, but like I say I am unfortunatly in a state of turmoil at the moment and doubt seems to want to utterly crush me. :'(

Your questions aren't dumb or negative at all. It's highly understandable to want to know more about the spirit world.

Here are some websites that might help:


www.jonasridgeway.com

www.astralweb.org

www.spiritual.com.au/astral.html

www.astralvoyage.com/projection/index.html

http://home.iprimus.com.au/terencem/thisisabbisquestionpage.htm

Thanks.