Lucy's thread on visualization and got me to thinking about meditating in general. n my work I use hypnosis to "synthesize" a meditative state, mostly by telling people to "relax away" all their ongoign stuff. (I have a How To at www.mbs-hypnoclinic.com if anyone wants to examine these ideas in detail).

What usually seems to happen is that peoplefirst shut down active interactions, then passive states of responding, and finally they turn off all inner processes and go into some kind of hypersace. I've been there, but have no good description The Upanshads mention "dreamless sleep" which is close.

After doing this kind of work for a few years, I find that I go into trance with everyone, and my mind is simply silent in that state.  In fact, unless I'm using it, my mind is usually silent. I wonder how many others share this state, either in everyday life, or in meditation.
dave

No.

I figure that God and our higher selves can think as much as they want, so why not us?

The key is where your is attention focused, and how to you define yourself.

One time while meditating, I noticed that my mind is something I can use, but it isn't me. At the time I basically didn't feel like anything, except like a spacious energy/awareness being. In a way, I felt kind of naked, because I couldn't find a way to identify myself.

A blank state of mind doesn't necessarilly connect you to God. It just means that you aren't thinking of anything. The key thing is to get rid of the false ideas and attachments that keep your energy from connecting to him.

I find that when kundalini is really flowing, what you're thinking doesn't really matter. Rather, and simlilar to the above paragraph, it is more a matter of how you're limiting and defining yourself.

 Recoverer wrote, "A blank state of mind doesn't necessarilly connect you to God. It just means that you aren't thinking of anything. The key thing is to get rid of the false ideas and attachments that keep your energy from connecting to him."

 Really like the above statement Albert.  That is something i've come to understand in the years since i started meditating.

 When i first meditated, i used a Yoga technique back in middle school, after some forms.  Then a bit later i read Three Pillars of Zen which gave some good meditation tips.

 Then i followed the Cayce readings, which basically outlined what you said above.   The goal of meditation is not necessarily no mind, but rather a focused intent on something you want to bring in.  Its like "habits", no one can get rid of a bad habit, without replacing it with a better habit that is desired.

 In meditation, first i pray, then i empty myself and when i have some semblance of quietness and stillness, i then fill myself self up with what i call Love energy, then direct that out to the rest of Creation.   Then i thank the Is for giving me this existence to know and express the Is, myself, and know others (all the same really).  

 Sometimes i use hemi-sync, sometimes not, depends on what i feel led to do.

Peace

Dave:

Sorry for responding without first reading your post. But I read the subject line, and an immediate response came to me.

Similar to the below part of your post, occasionally while meditating, I'll click out and go into a thoughtless state. I can't really say what goes on. It sort of happens automatically. My kundalinin energy will really get going, I try to experience myself from a beingness standpoint, and before I know it, without trying to, I  click out.

I wonder what kind of effect such clicking out has on you.


[quote author=dave_a_mbs
and go into some kind of hypersace. I've been there, but have no good description The Upanshads mention "dreamless sleep" which is close.

I sort of pray. Before I meditate, I put my hands together and give obeisance to God, my higher self, and my guides. I do the same at the end of meditaition.

Regarding hemi-sync, in what manner does it make your meditation different than at other times, if at all?

[quote author=Justin2710
 In meditation, first i pray, then i empty myself and when i have some semblance of quietness and stillness, i then fill myself self up with what i call Love energy, then direct that out to the rest of Creation.   Then i thank the Is for giving me this existence to know and express the Is, myself, and know others (all the same really).  


 Sometimes i use hemi-sync, sometimes not, depends on what i feel led to do.

Peace[/color][/b][/quote]

wrote on Nov 18^th, 2005 at 3:34pm:

After doing this kind of work for a few years, I find that I go into trance with everyone, and my mind is simply silent in that state.  In fact, unless I'm using it, my mind is usually silent. I wonder how many others share this state, either in everyday life, or in meditation.

Hi Dave,

When working at the more subtle levels my mind is very clear and silent... observation / listening mode I guess I'd say although I can use it if I choose.  In normal everyday activities my mind is like this as well except I've noticed there isn't as much clarity.  Only when my mind is silent do I experience clear, full color visions such as during meditation.  If my mind is cluttered with thoughts information doesn't get through as easily.

K

The mind can reach a state of extreme quietness in many types of meditation.  For me there is a certain point at which I feel what I can only call "awareness" that I have reached a kind of "still place" -- and I can feel almost a sense of surprise at it simultaneously -- it is a sense of recognition with no thought -- perhaps that is simply my observer noting that I have reached a point of extraordinary comfort -- and at times I might "blank out" during a guided meditation -- and at times the body will call me back to notice something.  

This "silence" that occurs I would describe as a state of profound stillness and safety. In ordinary wakefulness I think we are naturally somewhat vigilant and rarely experience this, although we can daydream, and suddenly notice that we were "there"  --  I don't really know what that state is, to tell you the truth.  

Another interesting thing is that I can be very "still" and feel the "quiet mind" and yet amazing things can happen at the same time in my field of vision -- this is spontaneous and I don't know where it originates.

I have to say that different meditation techniques do have different effects, but I believe that still awareness is a common effect of any of them.  I don't really enjoy sitting in silence, so I don't do it.  But each to their own.

love, blink

Quote:

Regarding hemi-sync, in what manner does it make your meditation different than at other times, if at all?

 Not really different per se now.  When i first started to use H.-S. i had been meditating for awhile, and never had a problem with going deep, or quieting my mind.  Have always had a very focused, concentrative mind-set will little monkey chatter.

 But, i clearly remember one of the first times i used "Higher" (Metamusic Hemi sync)...boy, that was intense.   Got this awesome warm rising expanding feeling with pure joy, peace, and Oneness.

 I had experienced deep peace, and joy before that, but never got such a feeling of energy movement before.  

That "state" i've heard, is one that is much more common amongst those who have meditated deeply and consistently for years, and thats the aweseom potential benefit of Hemi-Sync...   It faciliates that unified feeling, etc. more quickly and efficiently.

 Sometimes now when i use H.-S., it is just for sheer practical purposes, like if there are any loud distractions..  Its nice to have the headphones and music going then... Other times, for whatever reason i just choose to use it, and often i don't.

 But like Bruce and others have mentioned, once your brain and very beingness learn those states of awareness, you don't need the H.-S. anymore, but just try to remember the feeling that was associated with that Consciousness, and it seems to automatically bring that into focus again.

 Great stuff and many thanks Monroe...  Lol i know i said i didn't like your first book much, but TMI, Hemi-Sync, and your last 2 books are a God-send! :)  And in some ways, i believe beyond what the A.R.E and Cayce have accomplished (though E.C. and A.R.E really "paved" the way for much in general).

 I have often wondered why the A.R.E doesn't do more stuff like TMI, or advocate TMI's technology or programs?   They have psychic classes and all that, but they don't seem to place too much emphasis on trying to and teaching others to explore more on their own.  This is something i really like about TMI.

Its not like the A.R.E is unfamilar with OBE or anything like that, heck 80 plus years ago people were asking Cayce about their OBE experiences, seeing auras, getting in touch with guides, and all kinds of stuff.

I've advocated Hemi-Sync and talked about Monroe, Moen, Rosie, TMI's programs etc. before at a couple of Cayce forums, but no one seems much interested...Lol and they really don't like it when i talk about "E.T." experiences...   Its too bad, cause when you mix the two (TMI and authors associtated with it and Cayce rdg. and A.R.E.), it seems to be a pretty good belief system concoction--good compliments in a lot of ways..

Peace

The idea of silent hyperspace is interesting.

Something about that "makes sense" to me. But I don't get there very often. Never, in waking! except for those special moments when, for instance, I see something that take sme breathe away...like the night after a summer thunderstorm, out in the country (no streetlights), we came around the bend on a country road to view a bazillion fireflies enjoying the evening...like falling into the Milkyway. There are no words to describe that.

Sometimes when I have had obe-type "sleep" experiences, I think I pass through a silent hyperspace, so I sometimes try to go there when I use hemisync, butit's not the same.

Recently took my son for an hour-long Reiki session (as a present...he's still young enough that I now think a good Swedish massage would have been better...reiki is subtle...but I keep trying to introduce him tothis stuff).  We had not previously met the practioner but had been to the store where they have space for stuff like this. She was very nice. Room was set up for reiki, dimly lit, decorations to set mood, etc. She had music playing, but I had brought a music tape with hemisync and asked if she would use that. She was readily agreeable even though she didn't know that tape. I chose to stay and sit on the floor against the wall and I thought I would just listen to the tape (sorry its a CD I'm dating myself!) and veg out. I went to the hyperspace..not entirely silent, but for me close...I know I'm mentally/emotionally in a hyperspace, but I have trouble doing that alone. Does the presence of others help? Maybe the reikli person pulled me there. I have been there in group meditations before. Or maybe this is a different hyperspace than yours, but I like calling it a hyperspace. Later when I asked the reiki person if she liked the music, she said it worked fine and mentioned she was thinking of purchasing a new TMI CD that has shamnic music, which interestd her, with hemisync.

I'm not sure we are all talking about the same thing. We don't seem to yet have developed a way to both honor individual variations and still talk about a common experience.

Thank you for the response Justin.

Despite the fact that at this point it doesn't seem like hemisync is something I need, I wanted to know what efffect it has. Right now it seems best that I continue to remove whatever barriers I place between me and God.

wrote on Nov 21^st, 2005 at 11:30am:

Thank you for the response Justin. Despite the fact that at this point it doesn't seem like hemisync is something I need, I wanted to know what efffect it has. Right now it seems best that I continue to remove whatever barriers I place between me and God.

Your welcome.  Yep, i agree, whatever floats your boat eh  ;)  (LOL see, i can write short replies! ;D)

Article in today's paper is somewhat relevant:

http://www.boston.com/yourlife/health/diseases/articles/2005/11/21/the_power_of_om/

 Hey thanks for the link to the article Lucy.  Boston's a pretty kool place for a city, use to live near there.

Hmmm - npot too bad. About 10% readers responded, and of them about half experience the "sound of silence" as Helena Blavatsky used to call it.  The others seem to experience hemi-synch, which I strongly suspect puts people into a subjectively silent state.

After a few more thoughts on the subject, I realized that what I was asking is whether others were meditating at the point of interpretation, a symbolic derivation of reality, or at the point of causality, a state in which there are no interpretations, no words, no thoughts, just experience.  This is along the path in the direction toward samadhi, but isn't there yet.

Kathy gave an excellent description of his this kind of thing works.  My thought is to proceed along the same path throuh "artificial means" (hypnosis, which is what hemi-synch amounts to). The number who seem to have found a higher levelof self through hemi-sych suggests that this has merit. Back to the lab.

Thanks for the data, folks.

dave

Dave wrote,
Quote:

After a few more thoughts on the subject, I realized that what I was asking is whether others were meditating at the point of interpretation, a symbolic derivation of reality, or at the point of causality, a state in which there are no interpretations, no words, no thoughts, just experience.  This is along the path in the direction toward samadhi, but isn't there yet.

Hi Dave and all,

 This is just a kind of general throwing it out there, and speaking out loud my thoughts.  I strongly agree with Bruce's interpretation on this one.  He talks about the "void", and how a lot of meditational and mystery belief systems are geared towards this void state.  Bruce seems to believe that its the balance between the void, pure perceiver awareness, and the active, interpreter awareness, which is truly effective...

 I've spent my whole life coming to this same conclusion...that one without the other isn't much effective, and its the union of the two which faciliates strength and eventual completion, or as you called it samadhi.  Its a fine balancing act, and it seems very few can hold the balance...

Its a big clue when Monroe runs into the most mature and evolved person living in his space/time (the 1800 year old), he senses a perfect balance between the masculine and feminine--and so can't really tell the difference since he is perceiving this being more from an energy perspective...

 By the inherent nature of Eastern cultures, they have over-emphasized the passive, pure perceiving, and Right brain aspect of "God"....  The void....

 By the inherent nature of Western culture, they have over emphasized the active, interpreting, and Left brain aspect...

Neither one has it quite right by itself.  I also relate this to what i call absolute reality, and relativistic reality...  Left brain/Masculine/Active/Expanding principle is the relativistic reality, and Right brain/Feminine/Passive/Contractive principle is the absolute reality....and combined, or merged--yet perceived as they are, different yet One, it is THE Reality--the reality that Light Beings (Masters) exist and function from...

 In meditation, i rather like the void, and use to think that was the goal of meditation...pure accepting, pure perceiving, pure just being (this relates to the Heart and 2nd Chakra)...  Then i realized that this was only half, and the other half, though more emphasized in some respects in our culture and ELS in general...was just as important (relates to the Third eye, or Brow Chakra and the Solar Plexus).  The Crown is the perfect balance of all major harmonics, and the perfect balance between the Masculine and Feminine...

 Now, for me, the void is just a stopping off point to center and empty myself...it helps to facilitate and attract the pure positive and active energy which is Light itself...  To me, Light is really just PUL in action, and feeling/experiencing PUL is the passive, feminine part...

 Interestingly, a person recently accused me of having polarity issues, and problems with the masculine--feminine balance...  I just laughed and said yeah, but any one who isn't completely Source immersed has this polarity issue.   I haven't yet met a "He/She" in physical, and haven't yet sensed this pure White Light emanation which accompanies such a Source resonator and transmitter...

 My teacher, who i've met in dream state is there (he'll be showing later in-physical, not yet the right time), but you know how dreams are...often quite filtered, and distorted once brought through the physical transducer known as the "brain"..

 See, the funny thing is, is that people who are primarily Right brained in expression, and function from that believe that this is the way, or path to Source.  Some have preached to me, pure acceptance, which to me translates to pure passiveness (such people are also very feminine,a nd often "peace at a price" types).  While i believe this aspect is very important, again its only half of the pie.

Others who are primiarly Left brained say, think and act your way there...and again, its just half of the pie.

 I have met very few who seem (from my viewpoint) to truly and holistically understand that its both simultaneously, which faciliates us fully remembering and being Source, and Creator Gods.

 Thats the true duality, that its not either--or, but both, and since each one is so different, how could it be both?   Its paradoxal or contradictory nature just slips out of our mental grasp, and even more importantly out of how we actually live our life.... even how we meditate....why can't we keep the balance?  Because we lack pure PUL, and don't give this consistently enough...yet we could....

 Everyone i met is made up of both positive and negative force/charge, but everyone i've met is predominantly one or the other, and they all think their way is right...lol and they are right, just only half right!  

 Will the truly Unified beings please stand up?  Are any hanging out here?  

Hello Justin.
  I agree with everything you just said. I think that by being a chimera (both male and female genes), I can control the kundilini energy with a balanced yin/yang, allowing me to generate a large amount of PUL energy which I can feel radiate outwards during meditations.
 Your right about the PUL energy coming stronger from the feminine side of the yin/yang. With a properly balanced and still mind, I can access the etheric plane and begin my explorations from there.
  My thoughts tend to have influence on what I experience while in the etheric. As long as my mind is still, my experiences can come from external rather than internal influence.
  According to Muldoon and Carrington, awareness is shifted external to the physical body by use of the silver connecting cord passing through the etheric. I think it would be better to bypass physical implications of oobe and just shift your awareness into a higher vibrational level or focus.

Sincerely,
Ralph

Justin2710 said:  "By the inherent nature of Eastern cultures, they have over-emphasized the passive, pure perceiving, and Right brain aspect of "God"....  The void....

 By the inherent nature of Western culture, they have over emphasized the active, interpreting, and Left brain aspect...

Neither one has it quite right by itself."  
.
.
.
.
.
I agree with the above.

When I first started having spiritual experiences, I'd see that everything abides in pure awareness.

After 2-3 years of seeing things this way, I found out about kundalini, and meditated from that perspective for about a year or two.

Then I found out about non-dual teachings, such as advaita vendanta (Ramana Maharshi, Nisargadata Maharaj, Yoga Vasistha, the Upanishads, Astavakra Gita, Advahut Gita, etc.) and Chan Buddhism (Chinese Buddhism before it became Japanese Zen, e.g., Huang Po).

At this time I felt as if kundalini got in the way of experiencing pure awareness, so I wouldn't allow my kundalinin to arise anymore.

Eventually, I became wiser and allowed my kundalini to come back to life. As a result, I'm able to connect to aspects of God's existence that I couldn't connect to before.

The Eastern awareness/void approach basically speaks of phenomenal existence as nothing but an illusion. The only thing that truly exists is pure awareness or Sat Chit Ananda (consciousness, existence, bliss). Chan Buddhists will say the "One Mind."

The Eastern approach doesn't talk about things such as spirit guides, higher self in a disc sense, focus 27 etc. Even the schools that talk about kundalini, often talk about it in a limited way.

They don't even talk about love that much, unless you're directing it to your "beloved" Guru, who won't tell you anything about spirit guides and higher self.

Right now I feel as if the creative aspect of God is just as much him, as awareness is. Plus pure, unconditional love has a lot to do with it to.

In order to see that God is everywhere, you don't need to look as his creation as nothing but an illusion that never existed. Rather, even what he creates is him.

It is possible that once we clearly see that linear time doesn't exist, we'll also see that this time based World we experience doesn't exist either. But this doesn't mean that God's creative aspect, and the boundless energy with which he creates doesn't also exist.

What an amazing thread, hearing from all these veteran meditators!!

MS

I feel the idea of balancing male (active) and female (passive) energy as described here sometimes and in some books sounds rather esoteric.  These descriptions sometimes make it sound like these states are only attainable to a select few.  The fact is everyone experiences this balance to some degree every single day of his or her life.  Active is simply intention, which exists on a deeper dimension of our being and passive is being in a state of acceptance (silence) or a willingness to receive, which has no judgment of experience, but rather is an observer of creativity.

When the deeper level of our intention is aligned with the deeper essence of our being we are synchronized with the whole.  On a physical level when aligned, we have a strong sense of personal purpose and integrity because we are synchronized with universal purpose.  This feeling is one of complete freedom because there are no adversaries.

People who take adversarial positions could not possibly be in alignment because universal purpose has no adversaries.  People who are in alignment automatically align with others who are also synchronized with universal purpose.  The more aligned we are, the more positive intent we have and the reverse is also true… to the extent we are not aligned, it is in that exact same degree that we have negative intent.  Examples of misalignment are doing sloppy work, procrastination, arguing, etc.

In the moments where we are truly unified beings, we are merged in and synchronized with universal purpose.  To some this may appear as passivity because of the lack of adversity, however, it is not.  It is the emergence of both active positive intention aligned with passive universal purpose which manifests in a complete sense of free flowing energy felt within the physical being as PUL and that of having a great sense on oneness with all that is.  

Love, Kathy

Wonderful post Kathy. Thank you so much.

In Spirit of ONE,
Mairlyn ;-)

Hello Justin,

Apparently you feel as though my post was directed toward you.  I assure you, it was not.  

I believe you are misunderstanding the essence of it and would like to encourage you to go back and read it again keeping in mind that it does indeed agree with your discription of male/female energy.  My point is that sometimes when these things are explained they sound esoteric when in actuality they are not.  I can also go into greater detail regarding this deeper dimension of our being.

Everyone is always connected with essence (the godhead, higher self, etc.) at this deeper dimension.  Btw this is a dimension at a deeper level than our auric field.  This dimension of our being is the one note or sound that holds our body in physical manifestation and is the foundation upon which our auric field is formed.  This is the deeper dimension of our intention or the “active” and through it we are in direct connection to the godhead.  

In my view it is a golden white line sometimes called the hara line as it runs through the hara, however, it also runs through what is called the “high heart” or “soul seat” which is sometimes misunderstood or confused with the heart chakra.  This line originates from above the head and runs down the center or central channel of our bodies deep into the earth.  This is the same channel through which vital life energy / kundalini runs in everyone.  It is what holds our gelatinous bodies in physical form and contains both our personal and also universal purpose and intention.  

Love, Kathy

This whole thing just makes me heartsick. I love you all so much.  This too will pass.

Much Love to ALL,
Mairlyn

Ok, Justin,

I am deleting all my posts regarding this matter.
I have no interest in having this kind of conversation with you. I'm done.

blink

Quote:

Hi Ralph,  I also agree with everything you said.  It sounds like you are potentially one of the "one in a million" types that Monroe and He/She mention.  Do you ever become ill?  This would be a clue right off, of someone nearing completion, the body harmony becomes so predominant that they just don't experience any dis-ease, let alone disease.

Hello Justin.

  I'm starting to feel that I am a He/She. I am physically male, but more female mentally. Striving to maintain a proper balance is what I do from day to day. I very rarely become ill, and if I do it passes very quickly. Usually it's only when my kundilini energy is out of alignment.
  What you said about the male/creative force reminds me of the teachings I learned when I used to belong to Eckankar. They also taught that this energy came from the sound force, rather than light energy. It seems to be a different enrgy than that generated by PUL, which I feel comes stronger from the feminine side. All of this could be just philosophical hypothesis. I don't know. I only know what I can feel and experience while I'm incarnate in this world. I feel that this physical world is just as real as that which exists beyond it in the multidimensional greater reality. I'll know better after further explorations reveal more to me.

Sincerely, Ralph

wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2005 at 7:15pm:

Hello Justin.   I'm starting to feel that I am a He/She. I am physically male, but more female mentally. Striving to maintain a proper balance is what I do from day to day. I very rarely become ill, and if I do it passes very quickly. Usually it's only when my kundilini energy is out of alignment.   What you said about the male/creative force reminds me of the teachings I learned when I used to belong to Eckankar. They also taught that this energy came from the sound force, rather than light energy. It seems to be a different enrgy than that generated by PUL, which I feel comes stronger from the feminine side. All of this could be just philosophical hypothesis. I don't know. I only know what I can feel and experience while I'm incarnate in this world. I feel that this physical world is just as real as that which exists beyond it in the multidimensional greater reality. I'll know better after further explorations reveal more to me. Sincerely, Ralph

 Hi there Ralph,

Am not familiar with Eckankar?  My understanding is that this "light" isn't light as we understand physical light, though physical light, as well as sound vibration is connected to this.

 The "light" is simply that First Cause Creational Vibration enacted by the Creator.  This is what created our worlds, our souls, our active Universe... This is simply just "vibration" and vibration is just simply "movement".

 Before this, my percept is that the Creator was purely passive, and stagnant existing as One undifferientiated Consciousness within the Void of unknowingness...

 The Creator became lonely, and this state was very unfulfilling, and it was curious to know more of its own nature, and so it moved within itself, exploded/imploded and sent sparks or parts of itself off to explore, to be companions and co-creators...

This was the first awareness of "vibration" or movement, and it was energy wise, a purely active charge.

 What we call the Creator God is purely positive i.e. ever active, ever expanding, and evolving....

 Yet within Source is still that original completely passive awareness of stillness and pure Oneness.

 Both are equally true, individuality, and Oneness.

 So, like the Creator, to know the Creator, we must purely balance these expressions and awarenesses within self, otherwise we are incomplete...  This is why so many search so hard for that special complimentary mate, because they sense this lack of completement within, and want to bring in this other polarity somewhat artificially....

 Those fully complete within self, have no need of carnal relations, like the man Yeshua because he was complete within self.

 Much of this, i didn't learn purely through others teachings but rather correlated many different sources and used guidance to create a coherent, balanced understanding of the Creative Forces.

 Its a like attract like reality, and like you i'm nearning "completion" and "He/She-ness" as egotistical or arrogant as that may sound to others.   Because i am nearing this balance, i understand it well from both points.

 At some point in this life, Spirit willing, i will say like our elder brother, "it is finished, I and the Father are One."

Either way, its not something to dwell on, or to get hung up on.  I'm just learning how to take each day as it comes and to be authentically myself and work through my illusions and attachments, especially the ones blocking me from Source realization.  One of the reasons why i do desire this, is to be a greater help-meet to others without the little self getting in the way, as it oft does.

 Take care, and i wish you well on your journey to Source realization, we need it, especially in these times and anyone which can so fit themselves as a channel for the Creative Forces while in physical (its not too hard to graduate once out of physical) can really help out with the changes which are ever increasing in intensity.

Peace

Ralph your topic is interesting but I'm replying at off-topic posts.

hey everyone,

Just wanted to share a few of my experiences and I think i have been in this space of nothingness as well...

I really need to improve, actually and get better at meditation. I don't seem to be able to easily anymore if at all...so I am enjoying this topic but haven't read through all yet, but am going to give it a real big going over lol.

Well my experiences are when I first tried to OBE i got in a meditative state and i ended up floating, (I can't figure whether I actually got OBE or not and din't relise) but it felt like i didn't, i couldn't feel my body and what I could feel is just my astral body floating over my physical, I layed there for ages enjoying it and didn't get bored, I can't explain it, like a state of well being and energy and pure awareness also, by floating I could really be with this. I have never been able to do this again...

Another time I layed down and relaxed and felt I had silenced my mind enough to relax but nothing happened and i woke up, look at my clock and an hour had past! felt like I had been there for 5 minutes, plus i know i didn't fall asleep, maybe i was thinking of nothing? Kind of like a hyperspace if you like.

Normally when i meditate I lay there and go into an awareness still with conscious feeling of my physical body even if this is not whats taking up my focus. Its here I see images, very clear and vivid and they pop up with the blackness behind and around them. I do not relise I have seen them most of the time untill they go, why is this? Its here as well I can go into phasing or OBE.

I noticed with some OBE projections I have relaxed and gone in a state of nothing and then caught myself when i start to float, or the vibrations comes. Like i really do shut off my mind, and maybe i lay there for a while building up energy like this i dont know but all i know is suddenly I'm in a position to OBE just like that fromt he relaxing.

Ryan