Ok folks,

With all this dark talk of demons, and division theory its time to put things straight.  The most experienced in the field of consciousness and spirit know by experience.  

For those who have had a NDE, they know, what they know.  One can debate or rationalize or divide the soul and spirit in thought, but that doesn't change that those with experience in astral travel, or Monroe's focus levels, or NDE know what they know through directly experiencing an altered state of being.

I believe that much of the debate on this board, and the dark side talk comes from those who, like me enjoy using our rational minds to figure things out.  Trouble is, this rational brain is very different than the firsthand experience that a few have had on this board.

I am reminded of, I believe it was a James Bond movie or book (if my memory is not exact, please forgive me all you Bond fans) - Bond is a noted wine Connesiur - and the villain tastes the wine at a formal occasion and says "ah Mouton Rothchild 1954.." or some such nonsense.  He looks smug, because he has matched Bond in his knowledge of wine.  Bond looks at him and raises an eyebrow.  "Oh really?"  He asks.  The villain rethinks things, well, it may have been another vintage.

After a time, Bond informs him that he was correct initially.  "I knew I was right!" the villain said.  "No,' Bond corrected.  "You thought you might be right.  You were not certain."  

I believe that certain knowledge of consciousness and the soul is only obtained by these direct experiences.  Otherwise, like our poor friend Chumley, and the villain in Bond, we only think we know, we are not sure.  I support all investigations into theories.  But bring on the direct experiences.


Matthew

I gave up on relying on logic too much, after fooling myself a few times. No matter how sound your logic might seem, there's always a good chance that it might be wrong.

The only thing you can have any certainty about, is your own experience. Some people might say that your experiences are dellusional. But when you see how they come together, and when you see how they tell you things that are beyond what your bio computer (if there really is such a thing) could tell you, they certainly seem to have more validity than what logic will tell you.

I don't mean to say that you should never use logic, but in the end what's really gonna do it for ya.

Some beings say that all knowledge can be found within. When it comes to finding this inner knowledge, I believe that logical thought and the beliefs that logic can form, will do more to get in the way of finding inner knowledge, than they will do to help you find it.  I guess it's a matter of whether you use logic as a tool, or it uses you. It's best to not let logic possess you. ;)

I like this thread. I've been taking the temperature of this forum for awhile and it appears we just grew out of something by leaps and bounds and I truly enjoy the new expressions I'm encountering here and there. I feel so good lately, I can't express it except to say I feel gratitude for my life, and hope I don't get too emotional here! :D I've never trusted my logic either, so there you go. I suppose logic is ok, as long it doesn't tell me it's logical to jump off a cliff...

love and light and have a day now, alysia http://images.bravenet.com/common/images/smilies/goodvibes.gif

Quote:

I believe that certain knowledge of consciousness and the soul is only obtained by these direct experiences.

I would agree Matthew.  For me the unexplained experiences came first and with my logical? :-) mind I try to explain them.

Love, Kathy :-)

I go about living day-by-day with the concept of not knowing anything, because I am so open minded I never suggest my opinions in certain debates, arguments, conversations, etc.. , I try to be as humble as possible (which is extremely joy able for me), however I know only what I know.. I consider myself to be 'wise' because of my growing up background, I was raised as a well rounded individual, more open-minded that any other person I have came into contact to this date.. however I'm not sure if you can judge ones well open-mindedness , because then again no one has the right to judge one another but GOD himself..

First hand experiences with the paranormal and the after-life are life changing experiences, and nobody not even skeptics themselves can degrade what you personally 'first-hand' experienced...

hey i know nothing, but what i do know is what i have experienced.. thats just my two cents on this wonderful thread...

Much good energy to all

hi Jacup. is good to be able to listen to others without interrupting them...sort of been my position to listen and weigh everything. sometimes this could be a problem as couldnt take sides, see both sides so clearly, impossible to join either. both are right. I have twin children and good parents do not take sides. love them equally. so good to see you here, and open to all sorts of "possibilities" for expanding our awareness whereever we see an opportunity. love, alysia

:)

A long time ago, I read Robert Pirsig's Zen and the Art of Motorcyle Maintenance. What lasts from that book in me is his description of the limits of logic. Logic can't deal with something that lacks definition, like Love, the  principle and force of all that is. This is a serious shortcoming. If you are a logician, correct me if I'm wrong.

I decided a long time ago, after falling out of a belief system, that I would only believe something is true, spiritually speaking,  if it met one of two criteria:

Personal Experience, and/or

A Preponderance of the Evidence.

And believing and knowing are two very different things.

Religions are full of people who believe. The Monroe Institute if full of people who KNOW.