I read somewhere that when the soul has reached the highest stage of evolvement sometimes will choose to go back to God.
It does not mean death in any shape or form. The soul is conscious but would lose its identity and just be part of God. This is an irreversable process.
Have any of you, who can experience in other realms, ever get any information to confirm or disagree with this?

Peace, Love and Light.

Sandra.

hey,

I'm not too sure on this but my views from what i've read would be yes we do eventually all become one. As we progress spiritually we evolve furthur and further and get higher and higher closer to God. At this point we can merge with God and i assume we lose our personality, or much rather join up with other personalities but i don't know about our conciousnesS? Maybe we lose this i don't know but i don't see how millions can share one "space".

However personally i wouldn't want to lose my identity i like who i am and always want to be me! lol. maybe this view will change when i pass over...

Also this leads to another question...If we all become one then what? What does this entity live? will it just live forever on its own with all the personalities/souls in the world? What will life be like if that day comes....whats the purpose?? and how was this all madE? how did it come about? Where was it from? So many more questions....aghhh! lol

Ryan

There is no 'right' or 'wrong', only a sharing of perspectives. The phrase 'incorrect', that you see below, is then only a matter of relativity, ie. the concept is incorrect *as seen from the perspective* of the author, ie. whoever is saying "that idea is incorrect or inaccurate from our observation" in any discussion. Thusly, the opinions expressed herein do not necessarily bear any correlation to the 'correctness' of the reader's own ideas. That is for *only* the reader to determine for him/herself. No one else can tell you what is right or wrong. You must decide that for yourself, based on your free will and choice of perspective.



Quote:

As we progress spiritually we evolve further and further and get higher and higher closer to God.

Incorrect, or to be precise, statement is based on misconception on the matter. All souls are equally close to God.



Quote:

We do eventually all become one.

Incorrect, or to be precise, statement is based on misconception on the matter. You've never left the One.



Quote:

when the soul has reached the highest stage of evolvement sometimes will choose to go back to God.

Incorrect, or to be precise, statement is based on misconception on the matter. There is no 'highest stage of evolution', evolution is endless. Futhermore, the higher the evolutionary level, the more the soul realizes he/she/it has never left God.



Quote:

At this point we can merge with God and i assume we lose our personality, or much rather join up with other personalities but i don't know about our conciousnesS? Maybe we lose this i don't know but i don't see how millions can share one "space".

Incorrect, or to be precise, statement is based on misconception on the matter. 'Merging' of consciousnesses (not with 'God', who is all consciousnesses simultaneously), whether small scale (ie. individual, oversoul groups, etc) or large scale (ie. entire civilizations, across races, worlds, dimensions, universes, etc), do not entail any loss of personality or individuality, but rather the creation (to be precise, *realization*) of a greater interconnectivity, collectivity or universality, in addition to the personalities and individuality (that always existed and always will, as natural expression of the greater whole).

This ('merging' of consciousnesses, not 'with God') cannot be properly understood from the perspective of the individual who fears (False Evidence Appearing as Real) losing its individuality, but can only be understood (in Love) by the Collective (ie. OverSoul) who realizes it is also the individual(s), was always (all) the individual(s), and will always be (all) the individuals.


---------------------------------------


The following two threads of mine (Kyo) are relevant to the above discussion, and perusal of the ideas communicated therein may be useful to the interested reader :


Reincarnation, Evolution and Serenissimus
http://infinity.hispeed.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1113602332

Incarnations & OverSouls (AFK Forum discussion)
http://infinity.hispeed.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1113196507

Good Morning!! Thanks Kyo for straightening this out.....I wasn't really looking forward to losing my identity in the end!! It took me alot of years to find it....sure as the sunrise every morning, I didn't want to lose it after all that hard work! ;D

its like this from studying my own life and those perceptions which start at childhood. those perceptions I had made me feel separate from all others, especially my family as family are the first relationships you work with. much later after a lot of living, I go back and retrieve the childhood perceptions which were both illusive and produced allusions I was separate and not a part of anything which felt good. it all felt bad to be separate; it was always my fault. that was the allusion. later, I'm 58 now, which means not a whole lot in the grander scheme of things, but I agree with Kyo here that I have never left the heart of God. I had to read ACIM to discover this, which is true for me. I never went anywhere from my place of origination. the way I deal with this idea is to see life as a movie, I am in the film, I am the probe, I am the adventurous one, I take the risks because it's fun. as I go along I forget about my former wishes to merge with anything at all. it is life and life only. great chunks of allusion fall away, or I may have belief system crashes...the crashes come less and less often but I do not lose my ability to give myself a surprise, so I don't get bored. the ego, a devise which would tell me I am superior, or inferior, or guilty of something, or tells me I should do this, or I should do that (it shoulds on you ::) ) the ego gets more quiet, but it's always there mumbling about something :P it may fall away. it may hurt. it may not even be there when I search for it. I may channel something in this case, from another being who is perhaps closely associated with myself. I may do many mind melds, vulcan style, with many others; in this sense I could be said to merge with the collective mind also. when the communication is complete I may fall back into my usual C1 smoothly. I may notice my ego jumping up and down saying ooouuuweeee! look what u just did! I may allow it to have a bit of fun then tell it to shut up after awhile, we have some work to do, something like that. in any case these two worlds, the afterlife and the life now are far too intricately intertwined to be able to divide them and say, this is what will happen on this level, and this is what will happen on that level. you create your afterlife on a daily basis within this now moment. it's all the same. you make your bed and u lie in it. it's a very practical and sublime intermix of energies, this thing called you. you will take all of you with you when you go. every thought, every feeling, none of it gets tossed out as unimportant. you get to see and feel the whole life all at once :o  not just this moment, but all your moments at once. nothing u thought was important turned out to be that important. the little loving acts you committed turned out to be your best successes of all, for in those moments you had loved well and changed the course of another's pathway for the better. they did not forget it, but passed on the kindness, whatever it was, to thier children or another, and it had the 100th monkey effect. the world was a better place to live, just from one little tiny smile. much love and light to you all, remember to give yourself a surprise today! ;D

;D i loved reading that.

Just wondering what was the ACIM book was it? that you read, i would love to read this as i have a lot to learn in this area! Plus i love learning anything i can about the afterlife so would  really appreciate that.

Cheers

Ryan (a little bit confused... lol)

Thank you for this Kyo. The points you have made are very good.

Love, Mairlyn ;-)

I used to follow Eastern philosophies. According to many of them the physical universe is nothing but an illusion, and eventually every individual merges back into God. For the most part they speak as if there's this physical World, absolute consciousness, and not much else in-between.

At this point of my life I no longer consider multiplicity to be just some big cosmic mistake.  Many, many individual souls were intentionally created, so the wonder of existence could be experienced by many points of consciousness. I'm no longer interested in trying to see myself as God. I feel content to be just one of God's many creations.

What's the point of having individual points of consciousness go through all sorts of travails, just so they can be squashed like bugs at the end (I don't have anything against bugs. This is just a way of speaking)?

Some people who think along Eastern lines, claim that God realizes himself through us. Does he really need us to realize himself? And why would he have to realize himself in such a way, over and over and over and over again.

It makes much more sense that he has a really big heart, and he wanted to give other beings the opportunity to enjoy life.

I believe that every life form is precious. Therefore, the existence of each form should be revered, not squashed like a bug.

In a way it's safe taking the Eastern approach, because there's only you as an individual body based person, and absolute consciousness. You don't have to concern yourself about things beyond the physical World.  And you can take credit for how things are going for you spiritually, as opposed to giving much deserved credit to that in the spirit World which assists you. And you don't have to admit that there's something such as an I-there, which is aware of everything you do. Including things you might find embarrassing.

wrote on Sep 9^th, 2005 at 10:52am:

Thank you for this Kyo. The points you have made are very good. Love, Mairlyn ;-)

And thank you, too, Mairlyn. These opportunities for networking with you, as well as with everyone else who have also expressed their willingness and friendship, is indeed respected and appreciated.


Love, Kyo ;)


PS.
The subject header is a reply to the subject header for this thread.

My feeling is that when we say that we’re going to merge with God at certain point of our evolutionary process what we really meant is that, as long as our consciousness grows the larger our perception of God is.

We’re probably going to reach a level of consciousness where we will feel God thoughts inside us so clearly that it will be like being one with God.

As Bruce wrote in His book “Curiosity’s Father” when talking about the planning intelligence it said it as lent to each one of us a piece of it’s consciousness so we’re individuals but inevitable linked to one bigger then us and so one till we reach God in this Chain.

Despite of an ever greater binding each with the other I believe that we will be able to preserve our individuality despite of being all part of the same source.

(To the ones Who have read)

Bruce had an experience when in TMI there He felt kind of merged with His partners after spinning around the Crystal at TMI there. (I do not remember the chapter)

wrote on Sep 9^th, 2005 at 10:48am:

;D i loved reading that. Just wondering what was the ACIM book was it? that you read, i would love to read this as i have a lot to learn in this area! Plus i love learning anything i can about the afterlife so would  really appreciate that. Cheers Ryan (a little bit confused... lol)

Ryan, hello friend. :D ACIM = A Course In Miracles, channelled by Helen Shucman, a psychologist. the material comes in the first voice of Jesus, thus, my pov, is the 2nd coming all those Christians think is still yet to happen. he came back in a book  ;D unbelievable of course...but not to me!
there are 3 parts to it: The text, the lesson study plan, and the teachers manual.
the lesson plan has 365 lessons to study, one each day of the year. there are a list of miracle principles  I forget the number exactly. it's not that hard to get through because if you understand just one principle of a miracle, everything else the book says becomes understandable just like a stack of dominos falling over. but it does take a year, otherwise the temptation is to throw the thing out the window! ;D
you don't just sit down to read it like another book. you sit down to have a chat with God, and I tell you, God is not a flatterer type guy. (I'm not like a literal person here, I'm trying to make a point) :D I repeat, God is not a single, flesh and blood dude above it all; he walks around in our bodies in the weirdest diguises I've ever seen! This book is one such disguise...but it's the real thing..One of the things it said to me that got to me, was "this world is not your home." far out! I was sure glad to find that out!  ;D

Hey cool cheers. Even though i don't follow the beliefs maybe put across the book you described...well kinda i do but not in a sense of the commerical side i guess to call it (only thing i can think of). i do like the principles and from what you have said i think it goes beyound that and sounds really really good. I'm going to look into it tonight!

not sure if that made any sense at all?? lol so anyway yeah cheers and i'm definatly getting it to sum that up! lol

Ryan

you said: I believe that every life form is precious. Therefore, the existence of each form should be revered, not squashed like a bug.  
 ______

this is true. there are some bugs I will not allow to live in my house though;D  when man gets to this point, of the above reference, wars will cease. that doesn't mean we have to set up housekeeping with every intelligent form of life though, just allow them their space.
______

You said: Some people who think along Eastern lines, claim that God realizes himself through us. Does he really need us to realize himself? And why would he have to realize himself in such a way, over and over and over and over again.
_____

well, God is a concept. try and imagine God as a flesh and blood man. its so difficult, its impossible. so we can take Jesus, and say, he was a man, yet he was a God. but we say, he is different than us. he walked on water. we could never do that.and we say, please come back, teach us how. he says do it yourself, I already showed you how. now it's up to you.
____
but getting back to your question of self realization. what does that mean to you? to <become>? are we not always becoming? is there an end when you are becoming? should there be? do you dance to get to the end of the dance? or is it the journey we would enjoy, not the goal itself of self realization. we could call this getting with the now moment.
____

We’re probably going to reach a level of consciousness where we will feel God thoughts inside us so clearly that it will be like being one with God.
_____

yes, I can see this.
____

another said: (forgive me for mixing up posts)
It makes much more sense that he has a really big heart, and he wanted to give other beings the opportunity to enjoy life.
____

this is where my vision takes me: in the above reference. Life, is a gift. but don't take this gift back to the department store; if you do, you will insult the one who bore the gift to you. ;)

love, alysia

Even though I can't say for certain what God is, I certainly don't mean an old man in the sky (How about an old woman? ;) ).

I figure that on a very basic level, I'm an awareness with no limits, that has the ability to create as much as it wants and understand as much as it wants. In a responsible way though, and of course with lots of love. I just have to be willing to open up and let go of limitations (I'm trying, I'm trying).

Obviously God, the creator of all, the primary awareness, etc., came before me, and I'm basically made up of the same essence.

Whatever the case, I don't view God in a religious way. I doubt he (she, it) has such limitations.

Quote:

We’re probably going to reach a level of consciousness where we will feel God thoughts inside us so clearly that it will be like being one with God.

.
Thank you for that post Kardec. It was so uplifting to read.

Peace, Love and Light.

Sandra.

Recoverer said:

Quote:

Even though I can't say for certain what God is, I certainly don't mean an old man in the sky (How about an old woman?  ).

How about what God really is, a perfectly balanced masculine and feminine energy.  ::)

With Love, Mairlyn  ;D

a friend of mine (Lyn in Australia) she calls it the "All Pervading Intelligence."

I liked her name. but I call it Undistorted Love Energy.

hee. some call it Elvis Presley.

http://images.bravenet.com/common/images/smilies/silly.gif  

All of you have such wonderful thoughts to bring to this topic.  

If God is a "Universe" then all of the galaxies, stars, black holes, particles of dust, the vacuum itself are part of God.  The Universe may be forever expanding or contracting like the breath of a living being.  

It is one and it is many.  Each particle, each space between the particles has its existence.  The "Universe" is miraculous and so is our existence.  When we view the wonder of our existence in the larger context, we are no longer afraid and we feel only awe.  

Does it matter if my grain of dust is removed from the spirals of beauty created by our collective existence?  Perhaps not.  

But perhaps my existence is the eye which can behold the beauty of the spiral.  Who would destroy their own eye, and would they not wipe the tear from their own eye? And would they not value beyond all the stars a tear of joy?

love, blink

I have a question on my mind though that buggs me and i hate thinking about it, no one has the answer but still doesn't stop me! lol

Where does it all come from. It can't of just been there. The world i can accept it was created as a learning platform?? The afterlife then, where did it come from, how did it get there. If that was created as learning on like college after school lol to the highest thing, well where did the highest thing come from?? Where did the person come from whos in it?

Whats th epoint of all this, what if we had nothing, i can't even start to comprehend that, nothing at all, not even space to hold life, just nothing, well not even nothing because nothing is something.

Mianly where did it come from and how did it all start. I would love to know the answer but don't see how it is possible....every though we are living it.

Ryan

Dear Ryan,
I had exactly the same question in my mind for years. I don't think we could know for sure the answer to that. But I do belive there must have been a point many zillions years ago when there was nothing but God has always existed therefore he was the creator of everything. This is how science theories are crashed because the world and the galaxies can't go through evolution unless God created them in the beggining of everything.
God started everything out of Love, he is the source of everything here and in the afterlife and to try to understand how God created everything or what was there when there was nothing but God is to bite more than we can chew. Probably everything will become more clear as we become more enlighten and remember more of being a part of God.  
Well this is what I think, anyway but it would be so fantastic to hear what everyone else have got to say about the matter.
Thank you so much for bringing this up, Ryan

Peace, Love and Light.

Sandra.

wrote on Sep 10^th, 2005 at 7:18am:

But I do belive there must have been a point many zillions years ago when there was nothing but God has always existed therefore he was the creator of everything.

Hey yeah that make sense but it still goes round and round which is the annoying part! lol So if God exisited where? he must of exsisted somewhere, somehow, even a non-physical plane is something. But then where did "god" come from in the first place....what was before that!? lol

I'm going to stopnow i can really wind me self up over this sorta stuff lmao! Be great to hear everyones views on this though i do agree.

Ryan

Dear Ryan,
Don't get so annoyed, It's ok not to understand God sometimes. you just need to trust Him/Her, and one day you and I will understand everything.
God did not come from anywhere. He/She has always been. To try and understand anymore than that is like expecting a baby to do the job of a rocket scientist. We still have so much to learn. So I say don't worry about not understanding just accept it as part of God's plan and just be patient because every rocket scientist was once a baby...

Peace, Love and Light.

Sandra.

wrote on Sep 10^th, 2005 at 7:18am:

Dear Ryan, I had exactly the same question in my mind for years. I don't think we could know for sure the answer to that. But I do belive there must have been a point many zillions years ago when there was nothing but God has always existed therefore he was the creator of everything. This is how science theories are crashed because the world and the galaxies can't go through evolution unless God created them in the beggining of everything. God started everything out of Love, he is the source of everything here and in the afterlife and to try to understand how God created everything or what was there when there was nothing but God is to bite more than we can chew. Probably everything will become more clear as we become more enlighten and remember more of being a part of God.   Well this is what I think, anyway but it would be so fantastic to hear what everyone else have got to say about the matter. Thank you so much for bringing this up, Ryan Peace, Love and Light. Sandra.

And this is the part of this discussion that leaves me in awe....

None of this makes any sense, but in turn does make sense if we were able to think that far outside of the box...

The idea that Evolution exists without God makes absolutely no sense, yet people are driven to try and give science credit without there being a God, but science cannot even prove it's own existence...lol.

The idea that God created everything makes sense, but WHY does not in the minds of those who go through life not knowing why they have to or what it means.

In the end, I think this all makes sense or will make sense, but the problem with people like "us" is that we are trying to make sense of our journies while we are experiencing it, which to some degree makes it seem impossible, but to me makes the idea of there NOT being a God improbable!!

The real problem is:  how do you (can you?) define God?

Various groupings claim they have the complete explanation, but never offer proof - apart from a postulated very early history of a few tribes - also without proof.

Looking for origins of everything is like chasing  'Ignus Fatus', the will-o'- the-wisp, which disappears just as it seems to be within reach.

Perhaps 'origins' may be Spiritual and not physical.

There must be a Source - but beyond this, all is a question mark, which might require still further  elevation of human abilities before any consensus can be agreed?

An interesting journey, nevertheless.

Hiorta speaks well; he said: There must be a Source - but beyond this, all is a question mark, which might require still further  elevation of human abilities before any consensus can be agreed?
_______

would like to mention here my own journey how i ended up on this forum flapping my lips endlessly ;D I do get a kick out of it anyway. I was on another forum where ACIM students would hang. they were all students, not yet teachers, although the Course said we are all students and all teachers at the same time. I needed something more, so I found this place and read this article  http://www.afterlife-knowledge.com/vision.html  This site, right here.

after reading the above vision it resonated with me that this vision might lead me one step above what ACIM had taught me. and it did lead me on my own journey. the beginning of knowledge, of spiritual knowledge is to find out who you are and what you are my opinion. the why of it comes later as someone already said. you are all smart people or you wouldn't be here. these kind of talks we do is as good as it gets, believe me, and I've been around the block a few times :D  I soon realized might take a whole life time, might take a trillion lifetimes to find out who, what and why. is good reason not to be annoyed or get impatient; got to walk before you fly.
I'm going to re-read the above article because I may have missed something...truth is my life is like that..it's fall and I've been running out my back door to see if I missed summer..is it gone already? did I notice it when it was here? is reason I have to re-read books & people, and really, books are people.
after I re-read that article that sucked me into this forum 'bout 4 or 5 yrs ago, I feel myself getting fired up to post again on this subject ;D  do u all think maybe the point of existence is self expression? ;D I mean amongst others...not on a desert island ;D
anyway, my way of saying thanks for all your light! for being here...love, alysia

Quote:

The real problem is:  how do you (can you?) define God?

Much food for thought here...

Peace, Love and Light.

Sandra.