If there is a "God", or "Pervasive Intelligence" to
the universe, it means... I'M NEVER TRULY ALONE AND UNOBSERVED.
I mean... at least I'd like to think when I'm on the john, I'm totally alone in the universe... but if there are "spirits", then I am being SEEN and HEARD in there...
So much for privacy.
Also... I'd like to think that certain thoughts I have are known to NO-ONE BUT ME... and will NEVER in all eternity be known to any but me. For example... I won't give you the exact details, but I am a Grade-A pervert sexually. I fantasize about some things which I have NEVER told anyone about, and never, ever will. (The most I'll say is that they ALL involve human females... no beastie love or gay stuff for THIS perv-o...)
But if there is a "God", or an overarching intelligence... and by extension, an afterlife... then there IS someone who knows ALL these things about me.
So, let mechanistic materialism be the TRUTH, I say. (Don't religious people find themselves haunted by this privacy problem, if they're not nice conforming All-American "missionary position only" chocolate-and-vanilla types, sexually speaking???)
If there's an afterlife... then there is a Creator of some kind who is omniscient... and therefore, no privacy. Do any of you really want this to be
true???

B-man :o

We're all part of God and  He's you too, so how could you hide something He/you already knows ???
L,L&Serenity.
Claudio ;)

Brendam,

You can plant any seed you want to the only rule is that you will have to feed yourself with the harvest. (There is NO God judgment at all)

About the privacy stuff unfortunately it’s not possible due to the fact that your mind is a little piece o Gods mind. So would it be possible to someone to use your feed to walk without your knowledge?

ROFLMAO  Brendan, you crack me up.  Of course you're never alone and are ALWAYS observed. You have guide and higher beings around you all the time. However, they are not interested in your sexual activities. They're interested in your spiritual progression.

Now you probably know from being on this board awhile that those souls who are addicted to things such as alcohol, drugs, etc., usually have 'stuck' souls hanging around them trying to get that 'high' again. I'm sure it's the same with sexual perverts. There are probably/could be many 'stuck' souls who are pulled to you to try to get that 'sexual high' again too.  Just my thoughts.  :o ;-)

Love, Mairlyn ;-)

[b][
   

        Your letter makes me smile, yes you are correct in that we really dont have any privacy. Gosh long long time back when I started to really communicate with those in spirit, I was in the bathtub and someone from spirit came around me, I said excuse me but could you wait till after I get done with my bath, I remember hearing a thought form that said " We really are use to this and communication is much more important than observing a bath " so when you get over there Brendan and decide to pop in on someone it may very well be with a different attitude than we have here on the earth plane about such matters. love linn   http://www.spiritlinnusa.com

wrote on Jul 26^th, 2005 at 2:13am:

If there is a "God", or "Pervasive Intelligence" to the universe, it means... I'M NEVER TRULY ALONE AND UNOBSERVED. I mean... at least I'd like to think when I'm on the john, I'm totally alone in the universe... but if there are "spirits", then I am being SEEN and HEARD in there... So much for privacy. Also... I'd like to think that certain thoughts I have are known to NO-ONE BUT ME... and will NEVER in all eternity be known to any but me. For example... I won't give you the exact details, but I am a Grade-A pervert sexually. I fantasize about some things which I have NEVER told anyone about, and never, ever will. (The most I'll say is that they ALL involve human females... no beastie love or gay stuff for THIS perv-o...) But if there is a "God", or an overarching intelligence... and by extension, an afterlife... then there IS someone who knows ALL these things about me. So, let mechanistic materialism be the TRUTH, I say. (Don't religious people find themselves haunted by this privacy problem, if they're not nice conforming All-American "missionary position only" chocolate-and-vanilla types, sexually speaking???) If there's an afterlife... then there is a Creator of some kind who is omniscient... and therefore, no privacy. Do any of you really want this to be true??? B-man :o

First off, you may wish to further explore your concept of a Creator-God, and your relationship with Him/Her. What exactly is your relationship to such, that is to say, how you *choose* to relate to such, is *determined* entirely by your free will, not by what someone else (eg. a pastor) says.

Secondly, it is not invasion of privacy of your sexual perversions that is the problem, it is your own fear of being judged by others (eg. extraphysicals or 'spirits', or even 'God') that is your problem. And it is not even being judged by others that is your problem, it is you judging yourself, that is the problem.

Thirdly, as to the sexual 'perversions' you perceive you have, first drop the negative emotional associations with the idea of 'perversion' as something 'bad'. It will only get in your way of understanding what this issue really is, and how you can benefit from it. So don't regard them as 'perversions' or something to be ashamed of. They're not. There's never anything to be ashamed of.

Next, understand that by the nature of the intense emotional energies associated with such sexual ideas ('perversions'), it is more than likely that there are intruders involved, that feed on, encourage, suggest more ('perverted' ideas), and (in effect) exacerbate the 'perversion' issue.

But exercising self-responsibility, you understand that intrusion by other (extraphysical) beings, can never be used as an 'excuse' for one issues (if it is, then you are only 'excusing' your own opportunities for learning, for evolution), because intrusion/attachment/possession can only occur when the seeds of the issue are already present (by your free will, your choice, your intentions, your thoughts and emotions) within yourself, and *these* attract the extraphysical intruders.

This is the 'higher purpose' for intrusion/attachment.
http://infinity.hispeed.com/Heart.Of.God/Hilarion/HilarionDiet.html#Intrusion


But most importantly, what can you do now to help yourself? The first step, is to realize that your problem is NOT that of privacy (that is merely a concept, one that is now giving you suffering).

One of your issues is your understanding or concept of God. You will have to explore this for yourself, including a redefinition of 'God' that is meaningful, helpful and (thus) correct for you.

But you have many other issues (issues = opportunities for learning; so the more the merrier, assuming you are *willing* to teach *yourself* and learn from *yourself*, on these issues), such as associated with self-judgement, 'privacy', sexual 'perversions', self-love, sexuality (what all of these mean to *yourself*), etc.

And so, it is not feasible to address each of these separately, and in fact, only *you* can correctly address these for yourself. But only if you can first begin to see these clearly. Clarification, is the key to the begin solving all your (and verily, *everyone's*) issues. If you can't correctly identify what's happening, you can't begin to work on them.

To that end, the perusal of Bryon Katie's work is recommended.

"Loving What Is"
http://infinity.hispeed.com/Heart.Of.God/main.htm#ByronKatie

My post on Byron Katie's "Inquiry Process - a Tool for Clarification" :
http://infinity.hispeed.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1117041145


Take care,
Kyo

wrote on Jul 26^th, 2005 at 8:25pm:

But exercising self-responsibility, you understand that intrusion by other (extraphysical) beings, can never be used as an 'excuse' for one issues (if it is, then you are only 'excusing' your own opportunities for learning, for evolution), because intrusion/attachment/possession can only occur when the seeds of the issue are already present (by your free will, your choice, your intentions, your thoughts and emotions) within yourself, and *these* attract the extraphysical intruders.

And what makes you think you voluntarily chose your own thoughts and emotions?  For example, did you choose to be straight or gay?  Did you choose to like the taste of Limburger cheese or to hate it?  I think not.

So, in other words, demon possession absolutely *is* an excuse.  If a demon becomes attracted to someone because that person was *given* thoughts and emotions they didn't even want to have (such as a person who finds himself with perverted sexual fantasies from the time he hit puberty, perverted desires that he may have against his own will), then that demon did not attach to the person because of the person's free will.

The main problem with new age religion is that it places WAY too much emphasis on free will, when in fact our own common sense and personal experience tells us -- all of us, every one of us -- that a lot of our drives, desires, impulses, thoughts, emotions, etc. are not things we chose to have.  All we can choose is whether or not we act on them.  People cannot be held morally responsible for things that are out of their own control.

Having experienced perverted sexual thoughts myself from an early age, my suggestion to Brendan or anyone else would be simply to try not to focus on them.  Try to shift your focus onto other kinds of thoughts about other subjects, and to do other things rather than lying in bed fantasizing about perversions with a jar of vaseline. ;-)  The more you reinforce it through actions, the worse it will get.  That is something a person does have control over.  JMHO.

Peace,
Freebird

A couple more points I wanted to make in this thread....

First, about the privacy issue.  I think it's true that we are being watched all the time, but I don't worry a whole lot about it, because I have done a lot of self-analysis and realize what my own strengths and weaknesses are, and have gotten to a point where I feel I have little to hide.  If God or angels or spirit guides know my worst, dirtiest, darkest secrets... oh well.  I figure that's just life.  There's nothing we can do about it anyway.  One product of my belief in no-true-privacy is that it makes me value honesty more in life, realizing that lying does no good, since nobody in the spirit world believes your lies.  Therefore, since even the living people you're lying to are going to find out the truth when they die, there's really no point at all in lying about anything.

Second, on the demon possession issue.  I wanted to mention that in my own life, I was raised by atheist parents with no religion, and was taught that one's thoughts are private and that it's only the actions that matter.  Therefore, when I hit puberty and began having perverted sexual fantasies, I didn't try to repress my fantasizing because I had no idea that thoughts are important.  I figured that I could think whatever I wanted, and as long as I didn't act on perverted fantasies, it was fine.  How wrong I was!  I became religious when I grew up, and in the past few years of deepening my spirituality I have learned that corrupt thoughts can attract corrupt beings such as demons, earthbound spirits, etc.  At least that's what most religions, NDEs, and others reputable spiritual sources teach.  So, probably when I was younger and I indulged in perverted thoughts, I may have attracted evil beings to myself, without having any idea of what was going on.  I was not raised to believe in such things, but to consider those ideas as foolish superstition.  So, I think God takes such ignorance in consideration when judging a soul.  Since I have deepened my spiritual knowledge, I no longer indulge in perverted fantasies; rather I strive to repress them.  I have noticed that these involuntary thoughts and urges have tended to diminish as I have stopped deliberately thinking about them.  Then again, maybe it's just that I'm not a teenager anymore with the raging hormones and constant boner... who knows.  ;D

Freebird

Gimme a break here. Freebird, I thought you
Xians were big on personal responsibility???
My thoughts are all my OWN doing, that much I'm
absolutely certain of. They weren't "planted"
in me, they are a result of my own rather
twisted imagination... be careful with the "spirits
invading your head" theories, folks. Down that
path lies... SCHIZOPHRENIA.
P.S. If there's a God, I suppose he/she/it knew all
things from the beginning of time... but I don't like
the idea of a universal "hanging out of the laundry" post-mortem. PEOPLE are who I don't want to know about the details of these things... and most people are judgemental schmucks, that's ONE thing I've learned in this life. These same people, who I'll presumably have to keep company with in any putative afterlife (frankly, I'd be happier if I NEVER saw most of them again... even some of my own family members.)

B-man

wrote on Jul 26^th, 2005 at 10:15pm:

Gimme a break here. Freebird, I thought you Xians were big on personal responsibility??? My thoughts are all my OWN doing, that much I'm absolutely certain of. They weren't "planted" in me, they are a result of my own rather twisted imagination...

How did your imagination get twisted, and why do many other people *not* have a twisted imagination?  Brendan, are you actually saying you sat down one day and said to yourself, "I am going to choose to have such-and-such twisted thought or impulse"?  If not, and the thought or impulse just somehow randomly arrived in your head... guess what -- it has nothing to do with free will.

I can tell you that I personally have had many thoughts and impulses that I did not choose to have.  Of that I am absolutely certain.  They just randomly appeared in my mind, sometimes repeatedly and very strongly, and in many cases were things I really didn't want in my consciousness at all.  The challenge -- and this is where free will and moral responsibility gets involved -- is to resist the bad thoughts and impulses and nurture the good ones, and to only act on the good ones.

If we really are held responsible in the afterlife for every thought that has ever crossed our mind, or every desire or emotion we ever felt... then that's just "New Age Calvinism."  It would mean that some souls are predestined to be judged for personality traits, likes, dislikes, feelings, etc. they didn't voluntarily choose.

I don't believe that for a second.  It would be absurd.  And I definitely am a believer that souls are held accountable for freely chosen thoughts and actions.  The fact is, some things are freely chosen and other things are not.  It's just like the way some people are born gay -- they didn't choose to be attracted to the same gender, it just happened to them.  But if a person goes out and has gay sex, that is an action and that is freely chosen.  See the difference?

Freebird

:-[heheheee! Guess I'm screwed now!!! If anything, I hope that those watching and listening are at least enjoying!  :P ;)

Freebird, I strongly suspect these perversions
were a result of various ideas, memories, and
other things from my experiences as a child
which coelesced into rather unusual fantasies
during my puberty and teenage years. Add that
to the fact that I've been social garbage since pre-
school, so I was left alone with my thoughts, so
to speak.
So... demon possession, ya think? (And SERIOUSLY,
Freebird? What century are you living in, the 14th?
You make me think of some ignorant, wild-eyed, finger-pointing, louse-infested medieval Inquisitor with your little theory...)

B-man

Out of interest since I haven't lost anyone close to me yet, does it bother any of you that they know and can observe what you get up to sexually?

...don't you see?... the being you call 'god' wants you to be a pervert... he/she/it wants to express creativity and curiosity in Great Unknown through consciousness like you... he/she/it is a pervert too... hahaha... the thing is: you have to have an open mind about things and not to exclude anything after you die... if there is nothing, then there is nothing... and if there IS an afterlife, you will not be lost (if you listen to stories from Bruce Moen, Robert Monroe and others)... (((Q))) ;D

wrote on Jul 28^th, 2005 at 5:37am:

Freebird, I strongly suspect these perversions were a result of various ideas, memories, and other things from my experiences as a child which coelesced into rather unusual fantasies during my puberty and teenage years. Add that to the fact that I've been social garbage since pre- school, so I was left alone with my thoughts, so to speak.

Exactly.  Which means you need not feel responsible for the fact that these thoughts came into your mind.  It happened naturally, because of your programming in childhood, etc.  So the only question that remains is, are you going to dwell on the thoughts or not focus on them?  Because that is something that you can choose.

I have dealt with similar problems.  I have found that the less I choose to focus on perverted sexual thoughts, the less these thoughts tend to arise in my consciousness.  But that doesn't mean I should feel guilty or responsible for the thoughts arising in the first place, as some people seem to think would be appropriate (the absolute free-will folks).


wrote on Jul 28^th, 2005 at 5:37am:

So... demon possession, ya think?

Nope.  Not at all.  I don't think you're demon possessed; I accept your own naturalistic explanation for why you developed particular sexual impulses and fantasies.  Some others will probably tell you you have evil spirits influencing your mind, but not me.  I stay away from all the stuff about demon possession.  The way I figure, worrying about it can only make it worse, if it in fact exists.  And also, if God wants to remove a demon from a person, He will do so.  We don't need to go to exorcists or whoever else to attempt to do this for ourselves.  It's all up to God, my friend.  If God wants a demon attached to a person for a while, it will be attached, no matter how many exorcisms or prayers or other efforts are made.  On the other hand, if God wants to remove a demon from a person, it will be instantaneously removed, without the need for ceremonies or other efforts and works by human beings.  JMHO.


wrote on Jul 28^th, 2005 at 5:37am:

(And SERIOUSLY, Freebird? What century are you living in, the 14th? You make me think of some ignorant, wild-eyed, finger-pointing, louse-infested medieval Inquisitor with your little theory...)

Which theory is that?  I really don't know which belief I hold is similar to a medieval Inquisitor.  I honestly have no idea.  Could you please let me know?  My worldview tends to be heavily influenced by modern science, rather than traditional religious dogma or spiritualism and superstition, which is why I sometimes oppose the ideas of those on this forum who discount the strong influence of biology, genetics, the brain, etc.

Peace,
Freebird

Well, Freebird, I just don't believe that God wants a demon attached to anyone....but that's just me.... :)

Brendan, our sexual impulses are endlessly fascinating but I don't particularly want to dwell on yours.... I am just of the opionion that we are really not that large in the grand scheme of things.  When we are in the afterlife, which exists now, this will just not be an issue.  Perhaps we will have experiences of that nature there but the judgements that follow us here won't exist there.  And the afterlife is just so huge.  Your mind will expand simply from being there and you will find that your obsessions don't have the same meaning there.

I'll tell you truly that a glance in your direction from a being in the afterlife is more powerful than anything you have experienced here.  To be known there is wonderful, incredible, intimate and perfect.

love, blink

Well, Freebird...
I THOUGHT you had suggested I was demon-possessed.
If you WEREN'T suggesting that, then okay.
But you must admit... demon possession IS an
idea fit for a (wild-eyed, finger-pointing, greasy-bearded, reeking-to-heaven-because-he-hasn't-bathed-in-
30-years, lice-and-dingleberries-in-his-skivvies but never mind, "He who has been washed in the Blood of Christ does not need a second bath") medieval Inquisitor...

B-man

wrote on Jul 28^th, 2005 at 6:29pm:

Well, Freebird... I THOUGHT you had suggested I was demon-possessed. If you WEREN'T suggesting that, then okay. But you must admit... demon possession IS an idea fit for a (wild-eyed, finger-pointing, greasy-bearded, reeking-to-heaven-because-he-hasn't-bathed-in- 30-years, lice-and-dingleberries-in-his-skivvies but never mind, "He who has been washed in the Blood of Christ does not need a second bath") medieval Inquisitor... B-man

ROTFLMAO!  Gotta love that imagery.

I think you misunderstood me, Brendan.  I am not a big believer in demon possession.  In fact, that whole subject scares the shit out of me and I don't want to touch it with a 10 foot pole.  If it exists, then it exists, but I'm not going to give it any more power in my mind by thinking about it.  Realistically, I suspect that most of the people who think they're demon possessed are probably just suffering from some kind of schizophrenia.  But of course I could be wrong.

As for my belief about what causes sexual perversions, I have my own theory about that, and it's pretty much based on a scientific worldview.  I think it's mostly because of childhood experiences regarding sexuality, as well as genetic influences that tend to promote an increasing level of sexual obsession and perversion with each new generation.  Natural selection throughout human history means that the people who are more focused on sex and do it more often, are going to reproduce more.  There are of course exceptions to the rule, especially today with widely available birth control and abortion, but for many thousands of years, the really perverted and sex-crazed people were the ones crankin' out the babies, whereas the people who had lower hormone levels and purer thoughts just weren't as interested in sex so they didn't pass on their genes as much.  Science has shown us such amazing facts as that over 25% of central Asian men are descended from *one man* (Ghengis Khan), who had wild sex orgies with thousands of concubines and sex slaves, probably raped thousands more women, etc.  Other sex-maniac warlords also became the fathers of other peoples around the world.  Science tells us that many personality traits are passed on in the genes, so naturally, rabid foaming-at-the-mouth sexual appetites and perversions are gaining ground in the human gene pool over the centuries.

I doubt if demons have much to do with it.  Naturalistic explanations based on Darwinian evolution work just fine, on this issue.

Just a few thoughts.

Peace,
Freebird

Blink said: I'll tell you truly that a glance in your direction from a being in the afterlife is more powerful than anything you have experienced here.  To be known there is wonderful, incredible, intimate and perfect.
_____

oh my dear Blink.... ;) so true. I know we are turning the subject a bit here, but just couldn't resist the opportunity to reinforce what you said above and just add one thing to the subject, that it is possible to do the partnered exploration with a person who is not dead physically. those experiences can shock one awake to the afterlife dimension also, even the same as meeting a deceased loved one and recieving verification. the verification lies in the way one seems to transform from such an encounter. you are just never the same person, but now u know you are more than u thought u were. I met someone I was supposed to meet on this very board, actually several people. it was like coming home. I cannot explain it. yes, one glance can be a complete revelation settling many questions and giving peace to the mind in search of peace. love, alysia

This topic is cracking me up... we are SO arrogant when it comes to our sex lives! Yeah I wonder all the same things other people wonder. I also wonder how women cope in those cultures in which the woman lives at home and the man comes for the night (no pun intended). Does everyone listen in???? I really can NOT imagine enduringf life in a culture like that with MY family. And what about the trditional ..which culture is this from? The traditional Morroccoans? On the wedding night, the husband must hold the sheet up for the public to view. It is supposed to be bloody. If it isn't, do they lynch or stone the woman? What if it isn't bloody because the man can't get it on? But the woman will be blamed. I think one could Sweat blood under such circumstances. And you guys are worried about voyaguers and higher beings looking in!

Higher beings checking in on your sex? Probably too boring. But it can't be any worse than when my kid was in daycare...highly licensed ...Bright Horizons...the doors on the "toileting room" were Dutch, ie half doors, and the teachers could look over the top and check on the kids...and the boys and girls used the same room, and there were no problems!....It is probably the same for us.

So I happen to have a second job doing retail. I work for a company whose name many of you in US might recognise. I get a big $7.88/hr so I won't mention their name. I had heard this was a problem but I had never experienced it first hand in over a year of working very part-time. But a week ago Tuesday I was filling in for someone else in the Women's Career Dept. Dressing room can be very busy. I finally, toward the end of evening, got a chance to empty the dressing rooms. Got to the one large enough for a wheelchair and having a bench for seating. There was a blouse on a hanger under the bench. I innocently pulled it out. BIG mistake. I thought someone had thrown up at first, but I was wrong. Got the boss to help clean it up. I had heard things like this happen. Tonight one of the cleaning guys told me that he has to clean up a dressing room (always the women's rooms never the men's) in which someone has defecated about once a month. Don't know the guy so don't know how accurate this is. But I can verify that he is right some of the time.

Now if you substitute "weird defecation practices" for "weird sex practices" in all the above posts, how does it change the conversation? We think our sex lives are so sacred...but in the end I think sex is as glorious and as mundane as defecation, even though the consequences are different.

BTW, what kind of person defecates in a dressing room? What kind of demons possess them?

And about the sex practices...Why are we humans so arrogant to think our genitals are so significant???

Alysia thanks for your post. Tonight at my mundane retail job I was back in MY department...putting all the bras away...(speaking of arrogance, why are there so many kinds of bras when tits are for feeding babies?)...and I was just trying to think about soething real...and I had a moment when I thought of myself as a conduit of PUL...just a fraction of a second, but I was really a conduit of PUL...[not a creator. I give. I'm not there yet, but a conduit was powerful too.] For some reason I flashed on a former co-worker (one of a group I mentioned recently in a separate post, maybe that's why he was on my mind) someone whom I don't like and do feel judgemental about but don't Really dislike...but I for a fraction of a second experienced this state of sharing PUL with him, and everything else lost significance. And I think if I can experience being a conduit of PUL like that again that I won't care who watches me engage in sex. I hope the guy had a good moment too. (Tim, a blessing to you.)

God, if I could only experience that again...with both friends and enemies...none of my problems would have meaning.

Quote:

...(speaking of arrogance, why are there so many kinds of bras when tits are for feeding babies?)

ROFLMAO  Love it Lucy. ;D

As far as defecating in dressing rooms, that's a first for me, that is reading it, not doing it. :o  I guess it takes all kinds of people in this world to get their 'kicks'.  ::)

Love, Mairlyn

I'm still chuckling over your post, Brendan!

Doubtless there are perverted spirits out there who care.

In fact, I commute to work three days a week and spend two nights in a motel. I could swear that some nights I feel as if someone is there trying to seduce me. (After images of prior tenants?) It reminds me of a tale one of my professors told about how frightening it was when he had sex for the first time. It was in the middle of the night. Everything was still and silent. The room was dark. It was rather confusing. He was all alone...

I'm still chuckling! Excellent post.

dave

B-man,

Great thread-from a "Crone" in training. You not only brought out some "lurkers" but also the opportunity for some of us to see how Moen and Monroe dealt with sexual issues.  Read their books. Some might say they were "perverted" but noooo, they are/were just humans like ourselves dealing with with what it is to be human in the human experience.  Remember nothing-I mean nothing human is alien.  Wished I had more time to expand, but it is Sunday night and I have a long week ahead. And if your worried about others looking on in your thoughts or actions, remember that's why "God" invented a middle finger. But seriously, anyone out there who is positive, is only there to try to help.

Much love and congradulations on your input.

Jean :-*

Hey guys, come on now. Freebird is entitled to his opinion, too. Be respectful.

Are you a teenager, by any chance, dude? Because if you are, it comes with the territory, I'm afraid, as is a lot about your mental state. You'll probably grow out of it.

In the meantime, just remember to respect your body and others around you. Whatever that means in your opinion is up to you, but make sure you're acting with love in whatever you do. Okay?

Quote:

And about the sex practices...Why are we humans so arrogant to think our genitals are so significant???

... nothing in this universe is insignificant... to think that our sexual organs (which create new life) are insignificant is to think like backward religious types... (((Q)))

wrote on Jul 26^th, 2005 at 2:13am:

I am a Grade-A pervert sexually. I fantasize about some things which I have NEVER told anyone about, and never, ever will. The most I'll say is that they ALL involve human females...

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/positive10.jpg

WTF

What made you think it was a good idea to bump this  :-/

I think that love has great healing ability.  The sense and feeling of love does something to the blood within - it makes it as if come alive.  And so i think this topic is good to talk about because it affects each one of us but because it is never spoken about - we never know is it right or is it wrong - if it is wrong why do we think about it (woman most the time)(men all of the time) ! It is the mystery of sex - i cannot say i know the answers but it needs open expression to try understand this part of ourselves that is almost as if hidden.

i enjoyed reading the comments and add mine; here we go and please bear with my working outs.

i have posted a script here under the topic HimHer in this it said there are two types of woman;
the seductress and the woman of soul.  I believe that there are also two types of men; the man through his power control (a unrefined ego) looks at woman for instant gratification through the physical.  And there is the man who recognises the woman of soul and honours her feminity knowing she leads him onwards.

We see that the seductress woman and the power control man go together.  Here we find that they are expressing love although it may be called lust.  This is truthfully only because they are searching for something or feel something missing - and one night stands or various partners fulfill this need - temporarily.

But truth be known it leaves them even more empty - yes the sex was good and might sustain the emptiness for awhile but the physical is the only connection.  Without a deeper connection they feel empty, even more so with the women and from a women's persepective; (that i think has got lost somewhere through the feminist movement) Man is women's pillar of strength.  Man makes a woman feel safe and protected and he makes her feel like a woman in her true sense.  Unless this is abused and she begins not to trust men and gets caught in the endless cycle of self-gratification.  This is because there is no deeper connection between the man and the woman.

From the perspective of the woman;
The chaste warrior is the most virile. True connection is the mental possession of all her other bodies (her spiritual bodies).  The genuine orgasm isn't a physical one but another which is endless, and which is produced by your contact with her invisible bodies, where you will find the perfume of her invisible body, the warmth of her lips, the amorous racing of her blood intensified.  As she will find in yours.

This is the mystical Tantric coitus, the alchemic wedding.  And here it is found the woman has no soul .. she is the soul. This for the mystical union is one of a path called A-mor 'loveless love' which is a harsh discipline, as cold as ice, as cutting as a sword.  

Okay but now lets get back to the basic's.  There is one desire in the night - to be hold tight and be loved and give love. And what if one does not meet their mystical partner in this life, what if one is in a commitment but does not find this mystical love that has been Risen above the basic bodily needs that seems to come and go in passing? When love is the foundation of all - why is this part so hard? And if love is so healing ..

Truthfully, i cannot answer this for my path seems to be this one of the 'loveless love' without the mystical union part (can i say yet?!) So i dont know the answer but i think that as everything in life and especially one on a spiritual path, there is a need to take everything to a level higher.  Sex included.

i hope others will add their thoughts here as well.  (A difficult subject to be sure or maybe not for some)