A few years ago, I had this vivid dream....or prenomition...whatever it was: It was a black night..clear..and there I was, floating upwards to the height of the powerline wires...I looked down to the road below me, which was quiet...there were no houses around, but alot of trees...I saw a car that was off to the side of the road, partially in the ditch...crashed or something...I couldn't really tell. But I knew that it was my car.....and here I was....hovering above looking down on it.
It took me a few minutes to realize that I must be dead...and I had the most unique experience ever...my body felt as it normally did. I felt like I had all my 'parts'...you know, the usual arms, legs...stuff like that....but when I held out my arms, there was nothing to see. This was so weird!! And I felt really warm 'inside'...even tho I appearently had no body....but it felt like I did.
Once I realized that I was dead....I panicked...because I thought about my 2 daughters at home...I immediately became saddened because now they would be so sad that their mom was 'gone'....
I wanted to get back to our home so that I could tell them that I would always be there for them even tho I was now gone...I wanted to tell them that I loved them more than anything in the world.
It was like a telepathic 'move'....because when I thought of going to the house...I was suddenly there.
I remember going up the driveway to the house....but I wasn't walking...I was floating along...and then up the stairs. I stopped long enough to peer thru the kitchen window and saw the clock on the microwave...it was 10:30pm.
I tried to turn the door knob on the front door to get in...but I had no substance in my hand to turn it....but then I was suddenly at my daughter's side, sitting on her bed...I was trying to talk to her and tell her all that I wanted to say...but she couldn't hear me..and she didn't even know that I was there. She didn't even know yet that I was dead.
Then I woke up from this dream.
I have remembered it in detail ever since.
I was thinking today....uh oh...bad thing.... :P.....is this how it feels to be in spirit form??
And if so....then this must be the same....a person who has lost a limb...they say that it always feels like they still have that limb even tho it is gone.
It feels like the body part is still there even tho it's not.....and it seems to be the same way I felt in this dream...like I had my entire body, even tho it was gone.
Does this make any sense??

yes, it makes sense the way you put it; to lose a limb yet we still feel the astral counterpart of the limb as if it were still there, because on one level, it is still there. non/physical folk feel physical in the same way; is reason some, especially sudden death, can be informed they are no longer physical and we call this doing a retrieval. what I think about is we people are basically infinite mind, formless, yet integral beings. we have a really hard time with ceasing to identify with our flesh home though. these dreams prepare us for what will happen to all of us when we drop away the physical..the final adventure? or maybe just the beginning of another adventure. love, alysia

This looks like a classic OBE ( out of body experience).

Since the Buhlman OBE forum went down, some others have come along in an attempt to replace it.
One of these is:http://www.projectradiantlight.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?board=OBEs


another is: http://lilacsky.proboards39.com/index.cgi?board=general


The Astral Pulse has been there all along:

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/

Hi Boris....do you mean that this might have been an obe that I had? Holy cow.....I never even knew about those things then, much less attempted one. This happened one night when I slept and then when I woke up, it was still in my head as clear as ever....I have always thought that this was a prenomition. What kind of freaks me out now is that at the time of this dream....I wasn't driving a car that came anything close to what this experience had occured with......however, I am driving the same car now as what I had seen in that dream.....(only back then at the time of the dream, I wasn't able to pinpoint the type of car...it was only a medium size, 2 door, black car....3 years ago, a family member bought me this car I have now...to help me get back on my feet again...and it is a 2 door black car...) I know it is the same car as I had dreamt about..because when I think of that car and compare it to the one that I drive now, I get a really strange feeling of 'completion'....does that make any sense? Completion meaning: it is done....you've come home...figured it out......the end of the story...
If this was an obe....how did I manage to do that when it wasn't even something that I knew about, never mind set myself up to try?
;D

Hi M-D
Your description is Precisely what people tell me when I send them back in a past life regression to look at how they died in some past life. The difference is that you seem to have done a "progression".

Progression is not unusual. I make my students do a progression before I certify them. (For what it's worth, at last visitation, Los Angeles still exists in the 25th Century.)  How these work is that the circumstances surrounding an event slowly gather together and create the experience on some level, and then they dissipate again. It's like the waves in a basin coming together in the center, making one big peak, and then dissipating back into seemingly random ripples.

You say that you felt "completion". That sounds as if your life path has now been altered, so that what you saw has been adequately handled, and you can go on to a new life path instead. The "ripples" were simply there to make a mental image. Although we usually view life as a straight line, it actually is a branching network, with every decision leading to a new collection of opportunities. An old Voodoo saying is that, "Destiny is fan-shaped."

When we elect a lifestyle, we often look for specific goal, one that provides a lesson that we feel we need. We also tend to build in lots of "escape hatches", so if things are going badly we can have a car wreck, catch a fatal disease, or something of the sort. But, when we reach the path that we intended, we often get a feeling that life has suddenly resolved itself, that we are where we're supposed to be. Then the future option that you saw does not need to be experienced, because you don't need to escape from this life after all.

However, at the same time, ny image of this sort also leaves you warning that you have left the door to the accident slightly open, otherwise you wouldn't have sensed it. So you want to avoid racing at high speed down a road of that kind, lest you have the accident you envisioned, and so on. Drive in good health!

dave

The borderline between dreams and OBE are often not clear.
There are elements in this dream that are like an OBE: floating
around, and not being able to manipulate things. On the other hand,
in OBE there is usually only a minor difference between physical
reality and the scene in the OBE. Like a table might be a different
shape, or there may be a door or window that is different. What you
are seeing could be some sort of mental replica of the physical
reality. But in your dream there were fewer houses, which suggests
seeing the past, or seeing something that is not reality. But
seeing a car you would later own would be seeing the future. This
could be what Seth calls the probable future existing in the
astral. Yet is seems mixed up enough, to be confusing. The astral
is like that.

In order to confirm that you were out of the body, it would take
something like a person gifted with second sight, a paranormal
ability, to see you floating around. This happens but it is rare.
Cases have been reported in this forum of seeing family members
floating around as balls of light, and seeing this without benefit
of being in any special altered mental state. Like a father saw a
mother, as a ball of light, go and check on the children, the way
that you did. I have seen balls of light, without being in an
abnormal state.

People who have OBEs fairly often report a definite sensation of
being out, and a full awareness of the process by which they
actually got out of the body, or were sometimes not able to get all
the way out, maybe only sit up in the bed, or lift an arm. They
also sometimes report looking back at their sleeping body, but this
is not always part of the experience. A friend of mine reported
looking back at himself sitting in his easy chair. In some cases
people out of the body have visited their friends and later
reported what their friends were doing, and gotten confirmations
that way. This would tend to say they were out, but they could also
have only been projecting out part of themselves.

What you see when you are out may be partly under your control.
Persons experienced in OB travel can sometimes select beforehand
where they want to go. Or there may be a reason for something being
presented to you for you to see.

At the end of life we definitely do go out, and may be photographed
as ghosts. But some people approach that experience while the body
is still very much alive.

wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2005 at 10:59am:

This looks like a classic OBE ( out of body experience). Since the Buhlman OBE forum went down, some others have come along in an attempt to replace it. One of these is:http://www.projectradiantlight.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?board=OBEs another is: http://lilacsky.proboards39.com/index.cgi?board=general The Astral Pulse has been there all along: http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/

------------------------------------------------------------

Hello..Talk about Love, Light, Tolerance of others,
Went to the project radiant light forum with the addy you mentioned above Boris, Just read their posting rules..It enough to put you off these guys!!! What hypocrites this new  forum is being run by..Used to love reading posts on the old Buhlman Forum., so I asked an old member of this forum, and he told me these new guys don't allow born again christians, or any other religious groups who question their beliefs,  skeptics and people who want a friendly debate and some viable proof, anybody they deem undesirable...Seems like a closed shop type of cult...Yuk! Ed.  

Yes, it is a shame that things are that way. But the old Buhlman
forum was actually full of acrimony about religious belief,
particularly from Christians. The same thing has happened here in
the past, and Bruce has sometimes put his foot down and put a stop
to it. It is a fact of life that people get passionate about
beliefs, even though they are not evidence-supported. It is as if
the absence of evidence makes them even more vehement, because they
have to substitute vehemence for factual demonstration that may not
exist.

But to me this is mild. I belong to a muslim chat room, where you
would not believe the arguments between old doctrinaire muslims and
those who have taken in modern life. Like the old hard liners are
proud to be back in 1400 AD. They believe that only they have the
true word of Allah. The insults and the cursing, wow.
It is this madness that produces the bombs like in London.

The ones with the old beliefs call women Satanic, because they talk
to strange men in chat rooms! I have tried to explain to them that
women are safe in chat rooms because no one knows who they are, and
anyway there are no muslim rules for chat rooms because they did
not exist when the Quran was written. This seems to be over their
heads. They think that I have been led astray by Satanic women, and
warn me away from them. The isolation from the world outside their
culture is extreme, and they are getting culture shock from
exposure by way of computers. At least, that exposure is good.
But for some, there is no penetration. These people do not believe
in  tolerance. To them, Allah demands intolerance. Those with other
beliefs are to be cursed and shunned, or maybe killed.

I have not minded the mixing of peoples on forums, not because I
enjoy controversy, but because the debates bring out things you
would not ordinarily hear. I have learned to ride above the storms,
and pull out here and there, the information and ideas that I need.

I think you're talking about "Wahabbiism", Boris...
A particularly virulent, fundamentalist, and frankly
DISGUSTING version of Islam (Sunni branch.)
It is the Muslim counterpart to the equally vile (and dangerous) Christian
fundamentalism which is spreading like a fungus (or cancer) throughout American society.
BTW, Wahabbiism only dates to 18th century Arabia... a little short of the days of Mohammed.
Go figure.

B-man

Hi Mystic D. you know, don't know if u read on the retrieval thread, I too "died", floated, and tried to interact with others who could not detect my presence for the most part. I suppose I would consider it an obe, if for no other reason, the floating sensation. curiously enough my experiences parallels yours on some points. Like Dave said, my life path had altered with the experiences I was having at the time, thus a part of my identity had died, broken free and found a new path. I was strongly identified with what it means to be a good daughter. when it became apparent my ideas of what a good daughter is did not jive with my mother's ideas, well, something had to die just then. discovered family relationships are roles the spirit dons, that in truth, I may well have been her mother, husband, servant, enemy, in some other reality of drama and intrigue and/or unrequited love. ha ha! what a shock to be out there and discover you are dead! I felt like I was late for dinner and boy was I ever hungry! those future glimpses...yes, I have them also...and they are like yours, about a vehicle I will own, or some challenging aspect of mundane physical life I will own up to. I have been slipping into the future since about 2002 regularly without ever having desired to do so, I've gotten used to it and don't freak anymore. so far I cannot get anything beyond 18 months into the future, although I'm sure it can be done if there's a desire or need. through these dreams I now feel like we are all taken care of, despite what appearances say. something I like to call unmerited favor is arriving these days; somehow the more undeserving I feel to receive this new life, the more it gets heaped unto my plate; but that's a different topic. the religious will call this new life grace and will understand it. with a death though, is always following a new life so we should not be mystified then. http://images.bravenet.com/common/images/smilies/propeller.gif

::)Being in spirit form is wonderful , if you know how to astrial glide  when you sleep. S

Hi Folks -

Just a note on religions in general. It seems that roughly every 500-600 years there is born a major socio-religious figure. The sect that emerges goes through some rather typical events that seem to be true for all religions. (The Russian sociologist Pitirim Sorokin pointed out the cyclicity of history many years ago.)

The first thing is a revision of experiences into doctrines. Then there is a struggle for control. Next is a reign of terror of some kind, getting "pirified" in accord with the ongoing dogma. The comes resistance against new ideas, and finally merger into the next phase of general beliefs.

These phases overlap, so that one group does A while the next does B etc. Islam is doing what Christians did about 600 years ago. Christians are doing what Buddhists were doing about 1200 years back. Buddhists are doing what Vedanta Hindus did about 1800 years back and so on. It's an imperfect model with a lot of differences in the modalities of expression, but we've all been through this before as we progressed to the present day. Islam (and probably Christianity) is due for a revisionist movement about now, and it will create the same kind of stir as the ending of the Inquisition and start of the Renaissance. Hang on for the ride, eh!

d

interesting about the different religions Dave and that they can be predictable as say, a sliding scale, or a wave in the ocean that can be predicted to hit the shore.
qoute dave:  Hang on for the ride, eh!

I am currently taking astral hang gliding courses:
a picture says a thousand words, as a whisper could break the sound barriar if enough of us all whispered at the same time. lol. http://images.bravenet.com/common/images/smilies/parachute.gif

thanks for your support here.

Dear Boris,

I came to the board this morning seeking something???  When I read of your experience in following and joining one of the Muslim chat rooms, I became excited that a missing piece of the puzzle was put in place for me.  From my reading on retrievals, I learned that there are no barriers as far as whom you might be retrieving including facets of your own soul, but on this board it would seem that we are merely made up of Judo-Christians, agnostics, Buddhists, or atheist.  The world is so much broader than that and so are the individuals who contribute here.  So your mention of belonging to a Muslim chat room was refreshing to me—not that we should encourage dialogues on belief systems including religions, but that none should be avoided when others are being mentioned.  I have this funny quirk in me that I cannot feel complete or balanced any issue unless all of the players or relevant points are brought out.  

So thanks for mentioning the M word and maybe someday we’ll even be able to mention SM’s name as the grand permission giver (directly or indirectly) for motivating many of us to do this type of exploration.

Love, Jean :-*

Dave quote: However, at the same time, ny image of this sort also leaves you warning that you have left the door to the accident slightly open, otherwise you wouldn't have sensed it. So you want to avoid racing at high speed down a road of that kind, lest you have the accident you envisioned, and so on. Drive in good health!
______________________

this above is in reference to Mystic Dreamers post of a crash on the highway, a car on it's side and she felt dead and panicked..didn't want to leave the kids. good choice...a very common choice to stay with the kids here and a loving one. it also shows the ability to make choices to live or die and that we are in control of our lives this way by what we think and feel, even if subconsciously expressed in dream state.

thinking about what it means to be a medium lately due to another thread. this thread is reminding me of a time I attempted to bring comfort to another to retrieve her brother who had just crossed. I was asked to do it and still occassionally some here will ask me. since more often than not the folks need their own first hand experience they most frequently pay no attention to the few tidbits I get for them regarding their loved one, so it's not like a rewarding situation to retrieve for others and I lack desire to do so and instead encourage them to read more about it and begin the effort on their own, hoping they will, and knowing someday they will discover their own strength first hand, that it's not that difficult working in these areas. most likely it is a process requiring patience though.
anyway the title of this thread is how it feels to be in spirit form so it's appropriate to discuss retrievals here also. they are interesting ..are they not? I agree with Jean, the idea is get others interested, as something wonderful may happen if we all were to begin gathering ourselves to ourselves in the act of retrievals. simply reaching out to me. from the heart if possible. the heart of the matter. this lady missed her brother in a terrible way as did the parents..all grieved continuously. apparently the bond was stronger than I could imagine. He had gone out with a motorcycle accident and he wasn't that old. it was just too sudden for them. I closed my eyes and tried to find him to get a message back to her. up popped a blonde haired fellow with crinkled up smiling eyes as if he were perpetually good natured, very infectious and boyish. I saw something on the pavement that was slippery and took it to be oil. I must have asked what happened to cause the accident as he began to show me how he flipped through the air, the sensation of it. I didn't see a helmet. a crack on the head seemed to be it. all this imagery didn't matter to me, what mattered was the off hand and excited way he described his death as if he found it to be the ultimate adventure. I wondered what sort of fellow this was? I relayed to my lady he had a death wish which was leading up to this accident, not finding this unusual to myself at all, having had death wishes myself which has something to do with the wish to experience freedom from the constraints of physical life. however my friend was taken aback and I brought no comfort whatever in this announcement. I thought perhaps I should have said nothing, but thats what I got. I did see him visiting the relatives and relayed this also. the deep grief was preventing him to get through..this is very common. she told me later, they do pick up on subtleties that he may be trying to get through, so this is a start.
interestingly enough I dreamed of him and his sister as pups in a car, frolicking in the front seat; the sister pup was wanting to play with the brother pup and they did a little; then, seeing the open window, he jumped right out of it because he was so adventurous and curious and well, perhaps we have over exhuberance in here somewhere. this all led me to conclude his nature is very independent, but he still loves her very much and when he saw the open window, to go out this way, on a machine which generally gives a feeling of freedom when riding it, this was never wrong to him and it wasn't an accident..he actually desired and created it. I never could figure out why he did not see ahead how his family felt about it, but he was trying his best now to break through that he still lived. he also was with an organization of volunteers...consciousness workers we could call them...he went into a training program having to do with prevention of wars. all this did not matter to my friend either. last I heard she was still carrying some sort of guilt or sense of responsibility for what he alone chose to do through his exit point.

btw, Boris, I never told u, but I'm glad you are trying to work with muslim temperaments by bringing your light into their area. I think you are very courageous and maybe you can make a difference there with at least one person here and there. they surely are passionate about their beliefs, aren't they? anyway, yes the internet helps to speed up human evolvement, that's for sure.

love, alysia

In juggling some of the topics brought out on this thread, I feel a need to somehow tie them together into my experience with Bruce’s CD exercises.  Starting with OBE’s, whether they’re astral projections or merely lucid dreams, I’ve found that they’re fun to fool around with and that the hardest part is to realize that they are a normal part of being in a body and that they happen automatically, especially where I am overwhelmed or overtired.  When I wanted to actually learn how to do them, I read books, which then, due to my strong desire and intentions, prompted me to have my first OBE and lucid dream experiences.  I would get a thrill at being able to recognize that I was flying over the Australian pines surrounding my home in Florida and that I was able to go as high or low as I choose to.

At that point, I wasn’t really aware that I could ask for a guide or that I could safely leave my general area without harm.  I also remember an exceptional experience where I entered the inside of a living tree trunk and was able to “zoom” in on the cellular structure and then “zoom” out, back and forth till I got the idea that it was real on another level and that I was in control. It was much like some of the experiences described by Rosalind McKnight in her 1st book and in Monroe’s mention of similar explorers plant experiences in his books that I later read.  I also noticed that the colors, during this experience, were so much more rich, vibrate, and alive then the ones I live with in my C1 consciousness.  Awesome!  

At that time, I also had a sort of combo OBE-precognition experience where I greeted my husband when he came home from work only to find that I couldn’t move my body because I was still “napping” in bed.  Once I realized this, I slowly woke myself up and then the whole scene repeated itself but in C1 awareness duplicating his homecoming.  Every sound, word, and the order of things was exactly the same as before.  At the time, I remember excitedly commenting that I just had one of those wheeyew experiences I had read some much about.  What a gift!  Looking back, I suspect now that these experiences were just laying the groundwork for me to get used to the feel of being in an altered state and to be able to sense the shifting of gears from C1 to the other levels, and learning how to do this all with intention and, finally and most importantly, to not be afraid when did I feel these shifts.  

The next items brought into the thread with which to juggle were Buhlman and religion.  Right after responding to Boris, I went to my library and pulled out Buhlman’s, The Secret of the Soul. I came across his quote of Maslow’s from Religions, Values, and Peak Experiences, “The very beginning, the intrinsic core, the essence, the universal nucleus of every known high religion…has been the private, lonely, personal illumination, revelation, or ecstasy of some acutely sensitive prophet or seer”.  IMO, the time has come in our evolution to realize that those seers and/or prophets are us.  They’re no longer just out there to be studied, researched, worshipped, or quoted they’re, just ordinary people, like you and me. Sort of reminds me of Bruce’s introduction to this site where he explains who he is and that we can explore the afterlife to gain more knowledge on our own just as he did and does.

But my main point is that now is the time for more of us to consider the fact that we have the potential and supported permission to be our own prophet as others have done before us and that we don’t have to really master anything as disciplined as a proper OBE or a high level meditation, we merely have to overcome our own fears of being curious about using this vehicle we call a body with its mind/soul in place, read the guidelines book, and follow the simple instructions on Bruce’s CD.  His methods really work to explore the non-physical levels and are about as simple as you can get to access altered consciousness and the world beyond the physical.  

Anyhow, that’s the way things happened for me to be able to follow Bruce’s instructions so effortlessly.  When I actually did the exercises, I also got a better feel for helpers and how they operate and that there was nothing scary out there because I had, throughout the previous years, done enough preparation through my reading to have a handle on who or what might be out there.  As an aside, I do not believe in devils, demons, or bogymen except as I might invent them and religion does not hold the attraction for me that it did before I became aware that there were so many of them-all valid as far as they go-but none can compare to direct experience of feeling love, practicing kindness or exploring the non-physical world while living here and now.

I also want to say again, that I truly appreciate this opportunity to be able to swap information and tales on this physical level with like mind-inquisitive souls from around the world. It’s funny how so many different paths have converged on this site of Moen’s.  I love it!


Much love and appreciation, Jean      

Geeze...I had this huge reply happening here...and then I hit the wrong key and it all disappeared. I hate it when I do that!!!
In short...this time.... ;D....thanks everyone for all your replies on this thread. I don't understand alot what you are saying yet.....there is so much to learn about....and all these different religions and such that gets brought up, I have no idea of what they are about.......definitely alot of information to learn.....
I have been doing alot of searching on the net these days and have read about some records called the akashic (spelled right??) records. Records of history that are sealed....are there similar records that hold the future?? I wonder about this because in astral travel, appearently there are things that you are not allowed to see....winning lottery numbers for example. I wonder about this because if in astral travel we can go ahead and see future things...why are there some things that we can't see. After all, if the theory is that it is to prevent us from changing something that is going to happen...then that should stand for seeing anything of the future, not just a huge lottery winning.
Somewhere I read that astral travel is just an illusion...that we can set our brains to go into any kind of illusion that we want.....which is why we aren't able to see something like a winning number.
But then that I don't understand either...because we can see some things into the future, whether it is thru astral travel or mere prenomition...and see it all in perfect detail and then watch it all unfold before our eyes at a later time.

Jean: I had to comment on what you said about your precognition that you had....it sounds exactly like an experience that I had years ago....
I was sitting up one night waiting for my husband (now ex) to come home.....the later it got, the more angry I got. I knew his tricks well....he would hope that I would go to bed and then he would sneak in and in then in the morning, try to tell me that he was only a few minutes late...and I wouldn;t know the difference.
Finally it was nearly 4am.....I decided that I would go and lay in bed and wait.....( spider waiting for its prey!!) It's not like it mattered to me when he actually came in.....I was just trying to give myself proof at that time that he was actually being the unfaithful sloth that he was.
I figured I would just lay there and wait...and then when he came in I would pretend to be asleep. Then I would wait to hear his story in the morning....with one catch, I would know the exact time that he really did come in.
I guess 15 minutes had passed......then I heard the double set of footsteps walking up the front door steps......I hadn't fallen asleep.....and hey, somewhere in there I had missed hearing the car pull up. (He was bringing a friend of his home with him...a person who had been staying with us at the time).....so I hear the double set of footsteps.....then I hear the key in the door....I hear the door open...then close....I hear them walking down the hallway and I hear their voices talking quietly. I'm thinking to myself upstairs in bed: yeah, you can talk as quiet as you want....I know you're home....I'm awake....
They stop at the bottom of the staircase to the upstairs where the bedrooms are. And then I don't hear anything else at all.
I listened for several minutes....waited for him to come upstairs....there was nothing. Hmmmmmm.
So I go downstairs to see what they are doing...why he isn't coming to bed.
Well holy cow......there is no one to be seen. The lights were all out still...just as I had left it all before going upstairs. There were no shoes at the door....no one in the house at all. Wow....freak me out. So what the heck had just happened then. I went into the kitchen and sat there and started chain smoking! 20 minutes had passed when he finally came home....and darn it, the entire scenario had repeated itself in perfect detail just I had already experienced it 20 minutes earlier.
So now I am not even mad at him anymore...not even concerned about the time he is coming in at......I just looked at him and said: You aren't going to believe what just happened here.
:o

MD: you can get lottery numbers within dream, or inbetween state. I got four out of six, with the 5th just out of reach for me as I woke. raced to the 7-11 and played them and they came in. I had been practicing for several months to get them, leaving my mind blank for periods to get them...lol...I hated that. I started thinking about what life would be like if I were rich; would I just be a spoiled brat? probably. lol. I stopped doing it because a job popped up. the numbers are manipulated within the collective mind I suspect and people line up to be winners. there are winners who even win more than once which the odds are ridiculously high to be able to do that. the problem with lotteries is we can't all be winners or it wouldn't be a lottery, I want to find a game where we are all winners.
when you become a spirit, then is the time to ask yourself, which is the illusory world; spirit or flesh? you don't have to astral travel to walk the thin line between two worlds, sometimes it's just before you are waking up and you can still hear yourself talking to someone. love, alysia

wrote on Jul 7^th, 2005 at 4:57pm:

------------------------------------------------------------ Hello..Talk about Love, Light, Tolerance of others, Went to the project radiant light forum with the addy you mentioned above Boris, Just read their posting rules..It enough to put you off these guys!!! What hypocrites this new  forum is being run by..Used to love reading posts on the old Buhlman Forum., so I asked an old member of this forum, and he told me these new guys don't allow born again christians, or any other religious groups who question their beliefs,  skeptics and people who want a friendly debate and some viable proof, anybody they deem undesirable...Seems like a closed shop type of cult...Yuk! Ed.

Hello all,

I'm truly sorry to ressurect this thread, but as the admin of Project Radiant Light, I do have a certain responsibililty to defend it, especially when records of such as the above rather hasty judgment remain on search engines for years to come.

One should ALWAYS put a person's judgments to the test by experiencing a thing firsthand before making a decision, especially when many good and kind people are "under the gun" so to speak. Since that has not been done here, I will assist:

1) Yes, the Willaim Buhlman forum was a cesspool of extremism near the end, and indeed it was that which destroyed it finally. I was a moderator there, attempting to return some semblance of peace and sharing to the forum I dearly loved. I failed, and in a panic to keep the active members together, I created Project Radiant Light. Yes, we have lost a member or two, but what forum doesn't gain and lose many members over time? I am pleased to report that since the closing of the WBOBE forum we still have 90% or more of the active user base of the WBOBE forum, and they love it on PRL.

2) We are NOT a cult, and we are NOT exclusive, nor have we ever been such as that. The only exception would be that we exclude people that like to fight with others for no better reason than they like a fight. This is what destroyed the William Bulhman forum, and it is not allowed on my forum. If that makes me exclusive, then I am guilty as charged. I do not exclude any members based upon belief systems. I prefer the Seth belief system for myself, but I do not enforce it, and any Christian (born again or otherwise), Jew, Muslim, Buddist, Communist, Democrat, Hare Krishna, Republican, Satanist, or roadside watermellon salesman Athiest is not only welcome, but encouraged to join us. The ONLY rule that I enforce is decency to others, and that is hardly like asking for blood.

3) We did not ATTEMPT to replace the WBOBE forum. For all intents and purposes, we DID replace it. Hours after the WBOBE forum was closed, PRL went public, and immediately we had better than 40 members, all from the WBOBE. We exist soley to continue what was good about that forum, and I and my members believe that we do it well.

My final message to all OBEers seeing this post: Before you ever believe a thing and promote the concepts behind it, see it for yourself. Nothing, especially in OBE work, is more destructive than opinions taken as fact without question. Come see PRL for yourself and make YOUR OWN JUDGMENT. Am I hard on people that cause trouble? You bet I am, I love my members and I protect them and the sharing they enjoy. Do I treat my members well? Come and see. All are welcome there, and within the confines of that place you will find surprises that no other forum has, all constructed by myself using my PERL programming talents. I do this not for money, not for fame, but for the love of the people I relate to. Each passing day I consider another modification to the forum code, and when I can find the time, I build, and I do it all for the members. Will some topics dissapoint you? Of course! It's a forum, not a work of God! I can bet you though that you will find things to enjoy there.

There is only one way to find out, you know. Come see us. :-)

Love and light, and you bet I mean it, with all that I am.

Rick, NightRunner417, owner and admin of Project Radiant Light.

http://www.projectradiantlight.com