Very recently, I lost my best friend and lover to suicide. He suffered from depression but I didn't realize how severe it was or that without treatment could cause him to feel so hopeless that he took his own life. I don't even know how to describe the pain and anguish I hold in my heart over it.

I think one thing that seems to be helping in someway to keep me breathing is trying to believe there is an afterlife and that he is alright and at peace. I think another thing that would bring me much needed comfort is to know that he can feel or see how much I really loved him and how much I miss him. I would like to learn about the communicative techniques I read some of you talking about on here.

I'm worried, though, that because he committed suicide that he's not where everyone else goes who die by natural means. Do you think the things they teach us in certain religions is true when it comes to suicide? I don't know. Since his death, the more I've learned about depression and it's extreme affects on the people it gets a hold of makes me feel that they (without getting treatment and most don't because they don't realize they need it) shouldn't be looked upon harshly. I feel they should be able to experience a peaceful afterlife just like anyone else. Does anyone else have any opinions on this?

Thanks for reading........I'm very new to this....as you could probably tell.

I'm so sorry for your loss..

Personally, I think much of what happens to us in the afterlife depends on beliefs in this life.

I lost a friend to cancer some months ago..you can read about it here:

My Friend

I've never dealt with a suicide before, but I know others here have.  

What were his beliefs concerning the afterlife?

Dear Nikknack,

What we experience in the afterlife depends on our own personal beliefs.  It's a simple statement but it can be complicated too.  Keep asking questions, or reading, until you understand what that means.  It will help you.

Your friend must have been in such termoil inside in order to be so depressed to the point of committing suicide.  I of course can't say where he is or what he is doing exactly right now, but he will eventually get the help and healing he needs for his emotional and mental health.  It will happen sooner or later, but it just may depend on him and his willingness to let himself get help.  Or it may take him a while to realize the state he is in now.  Or he may already be realizing that his suicide was not  the best choice but that's what he has to deal with and he has no other choice but to heal and move on.  Please don't feel that he won't feel your love or that he will be in turmoil forever.  

I've lost a few friends to suicide too.  We, the living, have to go through the healing process too.

Vicky

Hi Nikknack,

Please accept my sincere condolences at the passing of your friend.

I don't think the afterlife is a place of judgement as so many religions teach. I believe it's a place of education, just like this life is. Your friend will hopefully learn about what drove his actions and learn from that. He will certainly understand and experience your love and compassion. And perhaps in time, he'll find a way to communicate his own love to you.

I'd encourage you to explore this site fully and learn from others' experiences. Bruce is one of the most generous people in the world to share his own experiences and to allow others to share theirs with us.

Dear Nikknack,

I am very sorry about your loss. Perhaps this webpage may comfort you. There are some very good links for surivivors of suicide support groups.

http://www.egogahan.com/Spiritual%20Issues/suicide.html

May you be comforted in your grief.

Sincerely,
JudyE

Hello Nikknack,

I lost a family member to suicide years ago.  It is devastating and I so much admire your courage in your personal search for answers.  I can hear in your words what a huge heart you have to be so understanding and caring for your friend.  The family member I lost gave our family gigantic challenges to learn forgiveness in this lifetime because a suicide creates so much confusion and disappointment.  So many unanswered questions and much misplaced blame and guilt can really create a lot of chaos.  I don't know if she has contacted me -- perhaps I haven't recognized her yet but she is always in my prayers.

best to you in your search here, blink

Dear Shirley, Vicky, Dan, JudyE and blink,

Thank you all for your comforting and encouraging words. To express the calm it's given me can't be put into words. I'm so grateful I found this site...I don't think it was by accident.

My friend and I talked about the afterlife numerous times and I think he felt the same about it as I did. We both believed that this life is not the end all and there are other planes of existence. Knowing he believed this might make it easier for me to have the connections I hope to make with him. As of yet I haven't read enough information on this site, but I think I already have sensed, felt and maybe even seen some signs he's tried to send me. They are filled with love.

I am definitely going to explore more into this site to find the answers I'm looking for.

Thank you all again for your support. It means so much.

Nikki

It might help to remember, too, that "other planes of existence" doesn't mean some faraway place that's hard to find or communicate with. I know sometimes when I think casually about afterlife issues, my mind's eye sees a place that's light years away from where I am and I forget that "here" is just a state of mind. Remembering that he's close by might help.  :)

Thank you Dan, I like the way you think.

I guess, I have to say, I feel the same way when I casually think about it too. But, I hope the more I learn, explore and realize the other possibilities of life after death, I will start to see things in a different perpective.

I plan on reading some of Bruce's books. It sounds like you have a lot of respect for him. Do you know of any you would suggest for my situation? Or should I just start with the first and go from there?

I appreciate your input. Thank you for taking the time to help me with my peace of mind.

~Nikki

Hi Nikki

I havent read the above responses in detail but as alluded to, where you go in the afterlife is all relative to your ingrained belief patterns.

have a look at the various info on this website about "focus levels" and what the afterlife is.

its possible that your friend may be continuing to play out his issues in some form of belief system.  this is nothing at all to get worried about but if he is, then it is something that he can be retrieved from.   you might want to post a new topic asking for someone to assist you in seeing if they can retrieve him.   remember that time is only relative to this physical Earth-life and not the afterlife so don't think that you need to hurry!

its great that he had open-minded views about the afterlife.  suicide in itself is not determinative of going to this or that belief system territory.  however it can be indicative that you hold a lot of negativity and hopelessness inside.  which can steer you to certain areas after you die.  its kind of like the movie "What dreams may come" with Robin Williams.  

i recommend putting out a request for a retrieval.  sorry i am not experienced enough to help you but there are lots of helpful people around here that could.   otherwise you could learn for yourself using bruce's books!

Scott

I am very sorry for your loss. I too would recommend reading Bruce's books, in the order that they were written. Also, if you can, get Gordon Phinn's book "Eternal Life and How to Enjoy It."  Gordon posts here too and he's had a lot of experience with suicides.  

Love, Mairlyn ;-)

nikknack,

I offer my condolences for your loss.

Suicide in most cases is a poor choice, but I believe God is forgiving.  All people are sinners.  If God will forgive somebody who commits some other forms of sin, God will forgive a person who commits suicide.  There are many things a person can do that are far worse than suicide.  Suicide is usually the result of intense and hopeless despair that lasts for a long time without relief -- something that most people do not have to experience in their life, and have little concept of how it feels.  It is largely because of things out of a person's control, which can include organic abnormalities in the brain as well as terrible events in life.  I believe God will evaluate each case of suicide individually depending on the circumstances and specific degree of moral responsibility and other factors, and that it is more important how a person lives versus how they die.  If suicide causes terrible harm to loved ones, then of course that would be taken into consideration in a person's life review and the future progress of the soul.

I do not believe, as some religions teach, that suicide causes a person to automatically go to hell, nor do I believe, as some people say, that people's own mental state causes their afterlife experience.  I believe those who need comforting in the afterlife will receive it, and those who need harshness and judgment will receive it -- and that people can in fact receive the exact opposite of what their beliefs, attitudes, and mental condition would seem to dictate, because God is in control, not us.

Clinical depression can rob people of their ability to think clearly and make rational choices.  I know because I suffer from depression, and I happen to be one who does not benefit from medication.  I have been suicidal in the past, and I know it requires tremendous willpower to resist the temptation to kill onself when one is in the grips of a severe depressive episode.  It can feel as if one's mind is not one's own, and you have to fight it with all your might.  For some people who have the most severe cases of the disease, that can go on continuously for months, even years, without any relief.  It is then that people are likely to take their own life because the torment seems too intense to bear and one despairs of hope that things will ever improve.

The fact is, most people have never had their will tested in this way, and God knows that.  If God has put a person in a life where they will end up with a disease of the mind, and they must struggle and fight it just to keep living as normal people can live without exerting psychological effort, I believe that soul is actually becoming stronger than most souls.  Perhaps your friend gained tremendous strength of will by fighting depression as long as he did.  Unfortunately he did not finish the boot camp of life on earth as a mentally ill person, opting out because he could not withstand it until the natural end, but I bet he gained a lot spiritually from whatever time he did choose to spend as a person fighting the disease of clinical depression.  I am sure God takes such things into consideration in evaluating where a soul goes in the afterlife.

I believe the most important things you can do are to pray for your friend and forgive him if you are angry about his suicide.  Additionally, I would recommend reading the following website about near-death experiences and suicide, which shows that the afterlife of those who kill themself varies according to their character and spiritual needs, not automatic hell: http://www.near-death.com/suicide.html

Peace in Christ,
Freebird

Quote:

people can in fact receive the exact opposite of what their beliefs, attitudes, and mental condition would seem to dictate, because God is in control, not us.

:o  :o  :o

Nikki - when reading other people's posts on this board it is also important to distinguish between those people who are stating their beliefs, which are inherently based on their upbringing, and those who have travelled and experienced the afterlife and these topics firsthand. As Mairlyn noted, Gordon Phinn's book is also a great book to read along with fellow traveller Bruce Moen.

All the best
Scott

Hi Scott,

I am, as you can see, very new to all of this. I'm still trying to understand everything.

I think you're right about the fact that everyone has their different belief systems which makes figuring this all out so much harder.

I am confused about what a retrieval actually is. I've read postings on this site about them, but I still don't have a total understanding of what it means or how the people doing them are going about it. Are they starting by meditating or using techniques they teach in books I've read about Astral Projecting?

I don't know, it's starting to seem like the only way I'm going to truly get a grasp on it is to read some of the books everyone is suggesting.

I appreciate everyone's input thus far and I'm taking everything in...I want to learn more.

Thank you

~Nikki

Hello Freebird,

I want to thank you for taking the time to reply to my post.

It makes my heart ache to know you are going through the same thing my friend was.

The worst part is, I had no idea the reason he acted as he did was due to a type of depression that he had no control over. I know more about what he was dealing with now than I did then...that is one main thing that is tearing me up. I feel like I'm too little too late.

I appreciate your suggestion on the reading...I haven't had a chance to look at it yet, but I will.

Keep that strong willpower you have going because I know there have to be more people than you could imagine who would suffer in extreme anguish and pain if you took your own life and left them with holes in their hearts and souls. It's the worst feeling I've ever experienced.

Remember, even if you don't realize it, you are loved by the people around you more than you'll ever know.

Take Care and Stay Strong,
~Nikki

Hi Nikki,

I'd just start with the first of Bruce's books and go on from there. There are some free articles linked at the top of the page if you want something to browse through in the meantime. And ask questions as often as they come...you won't find a more helpful and supportive group of people than you have here.

All of this "afterlife stuff" might seem mind-boggling right now, but I think in time what you'll find most mind-boggling is how simple a lot of it really is.  :)

wrote on May 12^th, 2005 at 1:32pm:

:o  :o  :o Nikki - when reading other people's posts on this board it is also important to distinguish between those people who are stating their beliefs, which are inherently based on their upbringing, and those who have travelled and experienced the afterlife and these topics firsthand. As Mairlyn noted, Gordon Phinn's book is also a great book to read along with fellow traveller Bruce Moen. All the best Scott

Scott and Nikki,

Actually, I was not stating my belief, I was stating what evidence has established based on hundreds of testimonies of near-death experiences.  First of all, virtually all NDEs report some kind of encounter with higher powers who have more control over things (including the nature of our afterlife) than we do, whether that be spirit guides, or angels, or Jesus, or the Light itself, which most people would call God.

Secondly, as for my statement that people can often receive the opposite of their own beliefs and expectations when they get to the afterlife, there is also a lot of evidence for this, so it's not just my belief.  Numerous NDEs establish that atheists can encounter God, non-Christians can encounter Jesus, fundamentalist Christians can be told that some doctrines they believe in are false, people who expect annihilation can still continue to be conscious, people who are fearful and depressed can suddenly feel peace and joy when they leave their body, people who worry about going to hell can find themselves in heaven, people who think they know they're going to heaven can find themselves in hell, people who don't believe in reincarnation can be shown past lives, people who do believe in reincarnation can be told it doesn't exist, etc.

Third, I would recommend not basing one's beliefs about the afterlife on only one's own personal experiences or the experiences of a few people who claim to know the truth.  In my opinion, it is better to look at as many spiritual testimonies as possible and try to figure out what resonates with your heart and mind, and generally to keep an open-mind rather than being quick to decide that any particular idea about spirituality and metaphysics is definitely right or wrong.

I have based many of my own beliefs, which I hold rather tentatively, on reading about a lot of people's near-death experiences.  The best website about this phenomenon I have found is http://www.near-death.com .  Many of the NDEs profiled on that site contain elements that were contradictory to the experiencer's own expectations or mental preconditioning.  And virtually all of them encountered a Higher Power or powers who are primarily in control over what happens to them in their afterlife experience.

So, I stand by my statement that Scott found so surprising:

"people can in fact receive the exact opposite of what their beliefs, attitudes, and mental condition would seem to dictate, because God is in control, not us."

Peace,
Freebird

wrote on May 12^th, 2005 at 6:14pm:

Hello Freebird, I want to thank you for taking the time to reply to my post. It makes my heart ache to know you are going through the same thing my friend was. .... Remember, even if you don't realize it, you are loved by the people around you more than you'll ever know. Take Care and Stay Strong, ~Nikki

Nikki,

Thanks for your kind words.  We all do the best we can, and each one of us has been given our own unique battles to fight in this lifetime.  Though I do not know what has happened to your friend in the afterlife, I choose to believe that God has provided a way for his salvation despite the fact that his life ended in depression and the ultimate act of despair.  And I believe this based on the teachings of Jesus as well as the testimony of many NDEs.

Please don't feel that you are in any way to blame for not recognizing your friend's depression.  One thing people with depression tend to do is hide it, because they do not want to admit they are losing control over their own mind, and because they do not want to cause concern for other people they love.  Unfortunately, sometimes this can culminate in suicide, which as you have said, causes terrible pain for those who loved the person.  I can only say that you might hurt less if you can come to an assurance that there is a positive plan for your friend in the afterlife and that his suicide does not necessarily mean he is still in torment.  Of course, there are those who will tell you that he is indeed still suffering in the afterlife, and they could be correct, but ultimately we must each choose the beliefs that resonate with our innermost conscience and with the preponderance of testimonial evidence.  If your friend was a good person, then it is more likely that his afterlife experience is a neutral or positive one.  Let us hope so.

You may want to be on the lookout for any appearances by your friend in your dreams, that could give you a clue of where he is and what he needs from you now that he is gone from this world.  It seems that sometimes dreams can offer a profoundly valuable window into the spirit world.

Peace,
Freebird

Freebird,

It's funny that you mentioned about dreams because I had some sort of weird, lucid dream lastnight...I could hear myself laughing in my subconscious (dream) and also in my conscious...it was like I was awake and asleep at the same time.

I know he was there but I really can't recall what was going on in it. I wish I could.

The reason I know he was there is because that was "our thing"---lots of that type of laughing (heartfelt) and so far, I haven't felt the desire to truly laugh like that since he's been gone.  :D

I pray that means we've made a connection and he's telling me he's happy, still has his sense of humor and wants me to be as well????

I hope it's so.

~Nikki

Nikki, how wonderful that you made contact with your soulmate. I know people who meditate on a dream to recall specifics. You could try this. Also I'm sure it was a real contact because of the laughing. ;-)

With Love,
Mairlyn ;-)

Hi Marilyn,

I'm so glad you responded to what I wrote about my dream.

I've been wondering all day about whether or not it was what they call a "connection". In my heart I thought it was, but to hear you say it was helps me believe it even more.

I will try tonight to meditate on the dream to see if I can remember anything.

Thank you for your encouragement :)

Love to you too,
Nikki

Uhhh, Freebird...
Does it not trouble you to believe in a
"God" who'd INVENT something like depression?
Such a being would be a PIG... no ifs, ands
or buts.
I would be proud to say to such a being, as I
stood before him at the "Judgement Throne" or
whatever:
"I spent my life making war upon you. I will not
apologize for that. I have NO respect for you, your
power, or your authority... so *BLEEP* off."
Come what may. He who complies out of FEAR,
is a COWARD... is this not so?
I'd much sooner mechanistic materialism be true,
than that this monstrosity (the Abrahamic "God") might actually exist...

B-man

Brendan, God didn't invent depression. Whatever gave you that idea? Man created depression, wars, murder, molestations..............need I go on?  

I have been in depression most of my life since age 25 (am not now). God didn't create this. I created it myself. My having an abusive husband and feeling I had no way out is what caused it. And my husband and I planned our lives before coming into this earth life for lessons to be learned. The major lesson that I have learned is to not be a victim.

God is a loving mystery. You are a God-spark just as I am and every other person in the world.

It's so easy for so many to blame God for everything that goes wrong in their lives. Good grief, people need to wake up and take responsibility for their lives and what comes into them.

With Love and Concern,
Mairlyn

wrote on May 13^th, 2005 at 2:21pm:

The reason I know he was there is because that was "our thing"---lots of that type of laughing (heartfelt) and so far, I haven't felt the desire to truly laugh like that since he's been gone.  :D I pray that means we've made a connection and he's telling me he's happy, still has his sense of humor and wants me to be as well????

Okay...you've passed on to the afterlife and you want to make contact with a loved one who's still here with the rest of us schmucks. Would you choose to make a bird fly into your loved one's window? Would you knock a knick-knack off the shelf? Or would you maybe choose something special that you two shared together so the person you're contacting knows it's you? (You did say you KNEW it was him.)  :)

And of course he still has his sense of humor. He didn't stop being him. I think a sense of humor is one of the best parts of being here and I have every intention of taking mine with me!

Brendan, God didn't invent depression. Whatever gave you that idea? Man created depression, wars, murder, molestations..............need I go on?  

I have been in depression most of my life since age 25 (am not now). God didn't create this. I created it myself. My having an abusive husband and feeling I had no way out is what caused it. And my husband and I planned our lives before coming into this earth life for lessons to be learned. The major lesson that I have learned is to not be a victim.

God is a loving mystery. You are a God-spark just as I am and every other person in the world.

It's so easy for so many to blame God for everything that goes wrong in their lives. Good grief, people need to wake up and take responsibility for their lives and what comes into them.

With Love and Concern,
Mairlyn
*******************************
I guess I was referring to the J.D. Howes conception of "God", Mairlyn...
Freebird comes dangerously close to the J.D. Howes god, or so it seems. He's speculating that there is even a POSSIBILITY that a suicide will be punished.
Any being that would use something as vile as depression as a "test" or whatever (and then stomps on those who "fail" the test by killing themselves) meets my definition of a foul, evil, disgusting monster worthy of nothing but curses from "His" creations.
Now what YOU'RE describing - a non-anthropomorphic, non-judgemental "creative Force" if you will... I can perhaps stomach.

B-man

Dan,

I see your point ;D

~Nikki

Hi Brendan,

I didn't mean to 'stomp' on you. I felt bad after I'd written that last night. I was just trying to get the point across that God is a loving being/force/mystery. I know you understand and I'm happy to hear that you can go with that. ;-)

With Love, Mairlyn ;-)

I never thought you'd "stomped" me, Mairlyn. ???
So don't lose any sleep on that one...
What I was speaking of was the loathesome Christian Literalist doctrine that suicides will be punished/tortured in the hereafter.
I've known a couple of people who committed suicide in my time...
And it seems that Freebird is entertaining the notion that these people will be "judged" or what have you.
If there is one thing I believe... it is that NOBODY OWNS ME (or anyone else.) We are ALL our OWN PROPERTY.
Seen from that light, there is nothing especially "sinful" (what the heck IS "sin", anyhow?) about suicide, any more or less than any other act a human might undertake... although depending on what obligations you may have (friends, family, kids, ect.) it may be EXTREMELY irresponsible (not to mention selfish.)
But what of an alcoholic hobo with no family or friends, or a bag lady with schizophrenia? In these cases (no responsibilities) I don't see how suicide would not be that person's "God"-given right...

B-man