Hello friends,

Last night I had a very interesting spiritual dream, as I periodically do.  As usual, I was only able to remember a few short snippets of the dream, but I know there was a lot more to it that I can't remember.  Oh well -- the part I remember was fascinating, so that's good enough.

In the dream, I was on some kind of guided tour of the afterlife, and the tour guide was Jesus.  A lot of the time we were flying in some kind of vehicle, and I think there were others with us but I don't know who they were.  One little thing I remember is that we encountered some frightening looking beings like ghosts, but we flew right through them and they were unable to harm us.

Here's the really interesting part.  We came to a place where souls were preparing for incarnation.  We were able to get out of our vehicle and float around and check it out.  I remember floating up to a big window to look through, looking down on a huge room full of souls that looked like children.  They were playing and doing things in there, and it was a very busy place.  I was made to understand that the souls were assuming the form of children and doing children's things, as a way of preparing to enter life in a human body.  I think some of them were even babies, and they were the ones almost ready to incarnate.  It was like a process of aging in reverse, to get the souls ready for becoming babies and children on earth.

I remember being really fascinated by this place in my dream.  I think I even went in there and explored it in more detail, but unfortunately I don't remember anything more except the general impression I have already explained.  I have never thought of this idea before, that souls prepare for incarnation by aging in reverse, taking on the form of children and getting accustomed to living as a child before they go to earth.  It was a total surprise to me and seems like it could make a lot of sense if it is really true.

As always, I don't know whether my dream was just a dream, or a genuine exploration of a place in some higher dimension of reality.  I have a gut feeling this dream could have been real, but of course I have no way of knowing for sure.

My question to the people here is, has anyone else ever been to a place like what I described, in your dreams, astral projection, OBE or NDE?  Does the idea I am describing, of a special place for souls to go to prepare for entering a new life as a human baby, make sense based on your own experiences or anyone's experiences you have heard about?

Freebird

Hi Freebird,

Awesome experience!  No, I don't personally have an experience that confirms nor negates what you experienced.  I feel that it was more then a dream though, I think you were really there!  I think it makes complete sense.  I've never even thought of it myself.  

Thanks for sharing  :)

Jenn

Dear Freebird,

To be honest, from your fragmentary description,  I doubt it was a real astral visit.  As you know by now, I've had a few OBE dreams and even done a couple of dream retrievals.  Some of these were extremely lucid and powerful experiences.  I knew I was back in my bed while my unconscious was creating these scenes that engaged all my senses.  But I'm now convinced that my OBEs and retrievals were JUST dreams.  Stephen LaBerge's research on lucid dreams has shown how easy it is to confuse OBEs and lucid dreams are.  I'd wait until I had something verifiable in my apparent astral visit before embracing it as real.  

That said, your dream might be a prelude to a real OBE.  The fact that this dream follows soon after your dream of two spiirit beings conversing about you makes me suspect that you are poised for a breakthrough.  I hope so.

Betty Eade claims to have met her unborn future adopted daughter in her NDE, but is adamant that this implies the soul's preexistence rather than reincarnation.  As you know, preexistence was a widespread Jewish and Christian teaching in late antiquity.  Perhaps, your latest dream, real astral visit or not, might sharpen your intuition and help you consolidate your position on this controversial distinction.  How do you feel about that question?

Don

Freebird, it feels to me like you were really there. That's great. There are no dreams that are JUST dreams. All dreams are real in some reality and most are teaching us lessons. I have been there too during a program at The Monroe Institute but the tape ended before I had a chance to see the people getting ready for their next incarnation.  Good job there. ;-)

Love, Mairlyn ;-)

It reminds me of something...

a very old souvenir but it's probably just a fake memory... whatever

I remember being in front of a strange screen or machine or somthing. I had to choose to choose who I wanted to be. I was selecting some qualities and had to choose some flaws to compensate.

I also decided to be born at the end of the 20th century because I wanted to live a peaceful life between ww2 and another major war that would eventually come.

Go figure I had forgotten about this ...

Hey Freebird - It works for me 100%.

There was a play "The Bluebird" by Maeterlink (I may have the name spelled wrong) that might interest you. Without giving details, it is roughly 1:1  with your dream. Came out in the 1920's I think, and is well worth a peek. It seems so extremely like your dream, plus your life situation that you might be surprised.

My favorite "getting ready" stories were a woman who was initially a pure and unfettered spirit. She was so entranced by the beauty of the world that she accidently slipped and fell down into a reincarnation. Then she complained about the restrictions of the body. Another was a man, a competent engineer, who was looking at a multi-dimensional pool. Some other spirits invited him to step into it and he discovered that it was a chute leading to a womb. He was pissed. I also had a youngster who was in a house watching the "munchkins playing on the lawn" when she was sent off.

Most of these seem like BST's of the experience, but similar. Personally, I believe that you had a legitimate recall. If you could find an IBRT certified regressionist in your area you could go check it out in detail.

dave

wrote on Apr 29^th, 2005 at 10:18pm:

Dear Freebird, To be honest, from your fragmentary description,  I doubt it was a real astral visit.

That's probably true.  The most likely explanation is that it was just a dream.  However, the question remains open whether the content of the dream was all coming from my own mind or whether it was influenced by spiritual input from a source outside of myself.  I have had plenty of such dreams where it seemed that it might not have been produced as a random firing of neurons in my brain, but that there was a purpose behind it and it was given to me as an insight for spiritual growth.


wrote on Apr 29^th, 2005 at 10:18pm:

Stephen LaBerge's research on lucid dreams has shown how easy it is to confuse OBEs and lucid dreams are.  I'd wait until I had something verifiable in my apparent astral visit before embracing it as real.

It could be real without being an OBE.  Perhaps some dreams can be a window into astral realms, while remaining just dreams.  This could be true if the content of the dream is being influenced by spiritual entities or forces such as angels, demons, spirit guides, or God.


wrote on Apr 29^th, 2005 at 10:18pm:

That said, your dream might be a prelude to a real OBE.  The fact that this dream follows soon after your dream of two spiirit beings conversing about you makes me suspect that you are poised for a breakthrough.  I hope so.

In the past few months I have had more spiritual dreams and other such experiences than usual, probably because I am taking an interest in issues of the soul and the afterlife more than before, and I have prayed to God on many occasions for spiritual guidance.  The primary way God guides me seems to be in the form of vivid, meaningful dreams.

BTW, the experience I had of two spirit beings conversing about me took place in the hypnogogic state between sleep and wakefulness, while I was in the process of waking up, so it was not strictly a dream.  It was dreamlike but a bit more real than just a dream.  I would not classify it as a hallucination, though.  It was something in between, which took place during the altered state of consciousness of being half-asleep.  Maybe a special case of dreaming... hard to say.  People seem to be more open to such things when they are in the hypnogogic state.

I've also had two very brief OBEs (or what felt like OBEs) during the past few months.  The first one I came only partially out of the body -- only my legs came out.  The second one I came out completely, but only for a couple seconds and then was slammed back in.  Both of these experiences were associated with the hypnogogic state.  In fact, many of my visionary spiritual experiences over the years have come in the hypnogogic state.


wrote on Apr 29^th, 2005 at 10:18pm:

Betty Eade claims to have met her unborn future adopted daughter in her NDE, but is adamant that this implies the soul's preexistence rather than reincarnation.

Many people who have NDEs are adamant about a whole lot of ideas they got from their experience on the other side -- and sadly, NDEs contradict one another on all kinds of significant issues, including reincarnation.  I have tried to draw theological conclusions from reading lots of NDE stories, and honestly, the more of them I read, the more I realize that very few conclusions can be drawn about specific issues, including reincarnation.  That's because a variety of believable people report very different things about the afterlife that they learned from their NDE.  Either some people are lying, or else NDEs are largely a product of people's own subconscious mind, or else a large part of what people are told or shown during NDEs is intended only for their own consumption, not to prove anything to other people other than a general sense that there is some kind of life after death.


wrote on Apr 29^th, 2005 at 10:18pm:

As you know, preexistence was a widespread Jewish and Christian teaching in late antiquity.  Perhaps, your latest dream, real astral visit or not, might sharpen your intuition and help you consolidate your position on this controversial distinction.  How do you feel about that question?

I feel that my dream could be consistent with either reincarnation or no reincarnation, although my intuition tells me it is more consistent with reincarnation being a reality.  Either way, I take no position on the issue of reincarnation, because there simply is too much conflicting evidence from NDEs to determine what I should believe, and I do not think the issue is important enough to my faith to feel it necessary to come to a firm conclusion.  The Bible offers little on the subject, and presents several conflicting views of life after death within its own pages, including the soul-sleep until physical resurrection view, versus the immediate transition into a spiritual dimension view.  I have decided the soul-sleep view is false, based on overwhelming NDE evidence, but anything beyond that about the specifics of the afterlife, I cannot be sure of.  My intuition tells me that reincarnation is likely true in at least some cases, although what percentage of people reincarnate I have no idea.

One problem is that it may be impossible to distinguish between evidence for reincarnation and evidence for discarnate entity attachment or a collective unconscious and psychic phenomena.  The biggest problem that is faced by anyone seeking to come to a conclusion about reincarnation is simply that many NDEs teach reincarnation and many others do not, or even adamantly reject it, and there is no correlation between the type of people and their experiences that would indicate that either pro-reincarnation or anti-reincarnation NDEs are inherently false or corrupted.

There are several other issues I do not take a firm position on.  One of them is the whole creation-versus-evolution debate.  I marvel at how many people debate on and on about this, feeling that which position one takes is essential to one's faith or apostasy.  There is a lot of evidence for Darwinism and a lot of evidence against it, so it seems that the truth is unclear.  And a person can be a good Christian either way, because the specific mechanism of how life came to be in its present form is basically irrelevant to one's Christianity, IMO.  I would say reincarnation is a similar matter.

There are certain things one must believe for sure, including the literal crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus Christ, which is a historical fact and the primary basis of Christian faith, and therefore cannot be denied.  On the other hand, I don't see reincarnation as an issue that Christians must have a firm position about -- and in light of the conflicting evidence, perhaps we should not.

Freebird

wrote on Apr 30^th, 2005 at 1:07pm:

There was a play "The Bluebird" by Maeterlink (I may have the name spelled wrong) that might interest you. Without giving details, it is roughly 1:1  with your dream. Came out in the 1920's I think, and is well worth a peek. It seems so extremely like your dream, plus your life situation that you might be surprised.

Never heard of it before... sounds interesting.  I'll check it out.


wrote on Apr 30^th, 2005 at 1:07pm:

Personally, I believe that you had a legitimate recall. If you could find an IBRT certified regressionist in your area you could go check it out in detail.

I am kind of skeptical about hypnotic regression as a way to unlock real memories, either of this life or anything beforehand, because in that state of altered consciousness a person could imagine something and think it was a real memory, right?  Aren't there a lot of cases where people develop false memory syndrome, where they go to a regressionist and develop memories of being abused as a child, and then it turns out that these "memories" are bogus?  The same problem could occur with past life regression.

Based on some meditative imagery exercises I have done, as well as some dreams, my personality traits, inclinations, etc., I have an impression that I could have had past lives including the following:

* Jewish Zionist and utopian socialist.
* German officer or official in the Nazi era.
* Philosopher who advocated humanistic utopianism and eugenics, and was against organized religion.
* Fundamentalist evangelical Christian tent-revival preacher.
* Intellectual, aristocratic plantation owner in antebellum Southern United States (Thomas Jefferson type), possibly during Civil War era.
* Political radical and patriot in American Revolutionary War era.
* Some kind of Christian heretic or radical religious reformer who was tortured and executed in medieval times.
* A bloodthirsty, sadistic medieval Inquisitor who tortured and killed heretics.
* Early Christian, possibly a martyr.
* Mongolian warrior during a time of conflict with Han Chinese.
* Some kind of Muslim at some point in time, maybe in Iran or India.

The thing is, all of this could just be my own imagination, or influence on my mind from other entities.  I have no idea, and I do not claim to know, nor do I think it would be a good idea for me to try to detemine with certitide whether or not I have had any past lives on earth.  It's probably best to focus on this life and not worry about the possibility of reincarnation, since we really can't know for sure anyway, and this current life is what is important for us right now.  It's fun to speculate about past lives, but it could just as easily be one's own personality traits translated into imaginary lives in other eras and situations.

Admittedly, one of the appealing things about the theory of reincarnation is that it could explain a lot of people's tastes, preferences, and inclinations that they cannot explain by anything in their current life.  For example, I have always had a psychological tendency to be pro-South on the American Civil War -- even though I know the South was morally wrong, and even though my father's family is from Maine and my mother is a European immigrant.  Whenever I look at plantation houses and think about the plantation life of the Old South, I feel a deep longing as if I was homesick for it, as if once I could have been a rich planter.  Here's another one: I have always had a burning desire to find philosophical and religious truth, and to become arrogant when I think I have found it -- even though my parents are agnostics with little or no interest in philosophy and religion.  And here's a really strange one: I have always simultaneously had strange psychological sympathies with Nazi Germany (which I have kept repressed due to the shame I felt about it), AND with Jews and Israel and radical Zionism -- go figure!  When I was a child, I used to have inexplicable dreams and fantasies about torture chambers, both as the torturer and the tortured.  They were vivid, almost like memories.  I have a real problem with conflicting tendencies in my personality, to the point where I often feel torn apart inside, the cognitive dissonance is so strong.  One way this could be explained is that I have a lot of past lives that conflict with one another.  On the other hand, it could instead be influences of discarnate entities that have been around me since a young age, for whatever reason, or it could be because of some other explanation (what I don't know).

Anyway, I like to keep an open mind.  I'll probably never know this kind of stuff until I die, and that's probably as it should be.

Freebird

Freebird,

I'm impressed by your well-reasoned answer.  I'll just pick out 2 of your points for special comment.

(1) The Bible..presents a conflicting view of..the soul-sleep until physical resurrection view, versus the immediate transition into a spiritual dimension view."
_______

Yes, and that's just one reason why biblical inerrancy is an untenable doctrine.  But it is important here to focus on the evolution of Paul's thought as the Spirit gives him new insights.  Still under the influence of his Pharisaic past, Paul initially believes in soul sleep (e.g. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17).  But as the years roll by, he realizes that Christians go directly to be with Christ upon their death (2 Corinthians 5:1-10; Philippians 1:21-24).  This new revelation brings him into line with Jesus' teaching (Luke 23:43; John 11:26).  To appreciate this development towards consensus, it  is important to note the sequence and dates of Paul's epistles.

(2) "Sadly, NDEs contradict one another on all kinds of significant issues, including reincarnation."
_________________________

Yes, that's a serious problem.  Let me make just 3 points in reply:

(a) People enter the afterlife with highly varied levels of spiritual development.  If the afterlife is governed by the principle that like attracts like, then some of the contradictions might be explained by the erroneous beliefs of the greeting party that are held on their particular spirit plane.

(b) One of the most important principles of the spiritual quest is a recognition of this principle: every precious spiritual gift and genuine astral realm is counterfeited.  Therefore, it is important to give extra weight to astral explorers who are most sensitive to the chance of self-delusion and who have the most impressive verifications.  Swedenborg and Howard Storm ("My Descent into Death") qualify as two of the best in this respect.  I encourage you to immerse yourself in both.  

Particularly compelling is Swedenborg's later rejection of reincarnational claims from the lower astral on the basis of communications from higher astral angels and his ultimate realization that group souls are not in fact multiple selves of the same soul that has reincarnated innumerable times.
I discuss these Swedenborgian views in my "OBE and Channeling Evidence" post currently on pp. 6 0r 7 and in reply #17 on p. 2 of that thread.

One of the most compelling cases for reincarnation is made by hynotherapist David Fontana in his fabulous new book, "Is There an Afterlife?"  So I was stunned to read his reasons for skepticism at the end of his reincarnation chapter.

(c)  Don't overlook the seemingly objective elements of NDEs.  For example, Christ often appears to atheists and agnostics as well as believers.  One Asian expert claims that in the thousands of NDEs he has examined he was unable to find a single Buddhist who claimed he encountered the Buddha during his NDE.  And I've searched far and wide, but have never come up with a case in which a Muslim encounters Muhammad during his/ her NDE.  Even if a few exceptions eventually turn up, it is the overall pattern that matters in view of the possibility of fraud and self-deception.  

In their comparative analysis of 500 NDEs from India and 500 from the USA, Osis and Haraldsson found key feature common to the NDEs from both countries, features that would not be predicted from religious preconceptions.  And they found no allusions to reincarnation in their very large Hindu sample.

Don

P.S. I heard OBE adept Robert Bruce on "Coast to Coast" a few nights ago. I have 2 of his books and am most impressed by them.  So I was so disappointed to hear him claim that aliens have an entrenched base on the moon and want to keep us away.  I don't blame him for apparently encountering such a base during an OBE, but for his lack of self-criticism displayed by his refusal to entertain the thought that his OBE may have deluded him on this score.  New Age kookery retards the progress of an important field of exploration.  

I had a dream a few months ago; A very tall man about 30 with no hair (bald or shaved I couldn't tell) who was leading me to show me something in the sky, he told me to forget everything I've ever learnt and open my mind to other possibilities.  He pointed up to what seemed to me a community in the sky, it was vertical (on it's side?) and it had something to do with geometry and gravity, what I don't know but that dream has stayed with me and I think about it a lot.  I also feel great warmth towards the man in the dream, I've read about guides but had no experience of them myself but I'd be happy if this man is mine.  

Also, I've always had a soft spot for baldies, I don't fancy them I just think they are cute in a warm and fuzzy kind of way.  Could be a connection or the dream could be images my mind made up themselves......  

Koo, my daughter pretty much had the same dream visit with an alien guide as you did. in her lucid dream she danced with the alien who had a group of students which he imparted a gift to each. her gift was a box of geometric shapes. he was trying to tell her the universe is built on geometry, which is an orderly science, so not chaotic or accidental. the warmth and love coming from this alien blew her away at the same time inspiring her as to her potential. she is the kind of person who struggles with self confidence, so my point is dreams or obes are very helpful in our life, especially can be road signs to follow. can't wait until humans get around to accepting aliens as real people with maybe something to offer us.

Wow that's amazing Alysia, your daughter having a similar dream to me! I have no fear of different forms of beings or aliens, they are just souls like us some good, some bad.  Although the guide in my dream looked very human just 8ft tall and very attractive.  I'd have married him there and then!

I was left with a strong feeling geometry was important and I've tried to do searches online but have only come up with geometric shapes lol.  I'll try again as I want to learn more about it.  

I also had another dream a little while after; This all knowing all powerful voice said to me "This is the answer to all your questions about life and the universe".  I waited for the answer and it was a ham sandwich!  Yes stupid I know ;D someone said to me (in real life! lol) that it was my mind playing humourous games with me.  Even so, it was a great dream.

Koo, do a search on Sacred Geometry and you will come up with a LOT about it.  You're on the right track. ;-)

Love, Mairlyn ;-)

Freebird, since you shared some of your past lives thought I'd share a few of mine:

1) holocaust resistance fighter and good at it I might add, probably took a pot shot at you. lol. really grew a lot in that life towards a desire for peace and a desire to honor life, foe and friend alike.
2) Assinated my mother who was in power and doing a piss poor job of it for the rest of us slaves. we both got around to forgiving each other in this life.
3) nurse who fed others and died of starvation in the process. advanced a lot in this life.
4) reclusive fisherman, obsessive philosopher, ignored everything but books.
5) viking on a ship, brawled and enjoyed myself. didn't learn much but was fun
6) spoiled rich Greek lady, totally pleasant life but didn't grow spiritually.
7)Christian missionary warping the minds of the innocent natives who were doing just fine until I showed up. (DP, I call him dead preacher, my guide.) grew a lot from this blooper life.
8 )Southern lady of etiquette saving the downtrodden by seiging city hall. when I got to heaven they just laughed at me. figures. I had done it all for myself.
9) a pearl diver, the best one, hit my head on a rock dive because I didn't want to grow old and lose the limelight.
10) Indian medicine woman during the time the white man took over. not very fun. died young with a big ache in my heart for the new life, the babies were killed also.
11) got healed by Jesus touching me. vowed my loyalty to him then, to assist him in any way possible without worshipping him; he told me then even greater things then I do, will you do.
12) obese guy with a harem, totally bored.
do I believe any of this? you're right none of it matters a bit. the only thing that matters is the now moment, who you are now and whether you can attain the peace of mind so many of us want, but do not know we want peace of mind amidst the noise. how many of us here can honestly say we are enjoying our life right now by realizing that we can be whatever we want and experience whatever we want and that life can be seen as a gift considering the alternatives? that is the question when we try to figure out who we are.

I love you guys, thought I'd throw that in.
http://images.bravenet.com/common/images/smilies/disguised.gif http://images.bravenet.com/common/images/smilies/heartbeat.gif

wrote on May 1^st, 2005 at 10:54am:

Wow that's amazing Alysia, your daughter having a similar dream to me! I have no fear of different forms of beings or aliens, they are just souls like us some good, some bad.  Although the guide in my dream looked very human just 8ft tall and very attractive.  I'd have married him there and then! I was left with a strong feeling geometry was important and I've tried to do searches online but have only come up with geometric shapes lol.  I'll try again as I want to learn more about it.   I also had another dream a little while after; This all knowing all powerful voice said to me "This is the answer to all your questions about life and the universe".  I waited for the answer and it was a ham sandwich!  Yes stupid I know ;D someone said to me (in real life! lol) that it was my mind playing humourous games with me.  Even so, it was a great dream.

______

LOL! I love it! life is a ham sandwich so ham it up, go ahead I dare you! ha ha! such a freedom we should all embrace. you must forgive me, I have become the laughing buddha. nothing is very serious in this area where we enter balance during the shift. forgot to mention the alien in my daughters dream was also about 8' ft tall and had light all around him, but this one had long flowing hair, and had no gender of female or male, was a mix of sorts. there was way too much PUL for my darling to absorb, she cracked her face smiling as he/she energized her light body.
she had another alien dream where she was spooning with an alien, looking deeply into each other's eyes totally in love. I know what u mean about falling in love with guides, had it happen a few times to myself. theres something about PUL experiences which suggest a forever essence to it that the ceremony of marriage pales next to the real thing. thanks for sharing Koo! http://images.bravenet.com/common/images/smilies/bouncer.gif

[quote author=alysia link=board=afterlife_knowledge;num=1114831335;start=0#13 date=05/01/05 at 11:05:44]Freebird, since you shared some of your past lives thought I'd share a few of mine:

1) holocaust resistance fighter and good at it I might add, probably took a pot shot at you. lol. really grew a lot in that life towards a desire for peace and a desire to honor life, foe and friend alike.
2) Assinated my mother who was in power and doing a piss poor job of it for the rest of us slaves. we both got around to forgiving each other in this life.
3) nurse who fed others and died of starvation in the process. advanced a lot in this life.
4) reclusive fisherman, obsessive philosopher, ignored everything but books.
5) viking on a ship, brawled and enjoyed myself. didn't learn much but was fun
6) spoiled rich Greek lady, totally pleasant life but didn't grow spiritually.
7)Christian missionary warping the minds of the innocent natives who were doing just fine until I showed up. (DP, I call him dead preacher, my guide.) grew a lot from this blooper life.
8 )Southern lady of etiquette saving the downtrodden by seiging city hall. when I got to heaven they just laughed at me. figures. I had done it all for myself.
9) a pearl diver, the best one, hit my head on a rock dive because I didn't want to grow old and lose the limelight.
10) Indian medicine woman during the time the white man took over. not very fun. died young with a big ache in my heart for the new life, the babies were killed also.
11) got healed by Jesus touching me. vowed my loyalty to him then, to assist him in any way possible without worshipping him; he told me then even greater things then I do, will you do.
12) obese guy with a harem, totally bored.
do I believe any of this? you're right none of it matters a bit. the only thing that matters is the now moment, .....

....YES ALYSIA, 'tis true, BUT the "now moment", when fully investigated and experienced through meditation can reveal all the input from those (12) you list; their "now" is also all that matters.  Connecting their "now" with your "now" will reveal a multidimensional "now" that is the HIGHER SELF exfoliating in all its glory.
As you know, my third book will be an attempt to capture that mutidimensional now.  Capture it and put it on display.

love, gordon

can't wait to read it Gordon and agree about revealing the glory of the higher self, exfoliating...great words Gordon, ha ha! reminds me of a showering of life of particles. what will be the title of your next book? interestingly, in my own book, I mention the now moment does not obliterate the past or future as it suggests it does..living in the now moment automatically causes a life review, as I've experienced that spontaneously. so positively on your wavelength here my friend. love, alysia