Here's an amazing article in the news today that shows that the physical brain has a lot of control over behavior.  I am posting it here because I hope it may spark a discussion about the issue of free will.  Many people here seem to believe human free will is nearly absolute.  I am of the opinion that it is much more limited, at least while we are in a body of flesh, and that what we think and do is the product of combined influences from the brain and the soul.  The brain is responsible for many of our personality traits, which have traditionally been viewed as the result of the soul.  The soul grows stronger by fighting against the tendencies programmed into the brain, to try to influence behavior in a different direction which is not natural to the personality.  It's the same way that lifting weights strengthens muscles.  You can't grow stronger unless you fight gravity.

Freebird

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Scientists Create Remote-Controlled Flies

http://asia.news.yahoo.com/050411/ap/d89dbiro2.html

Yale University researchers say their study that used lasers to create remote-controlled fruit flies could lead to a better understanding of overeating and violence in humans.

Using the lasers to stimulate specific brain cells, researchers say they were able to make the flies jump, walk, flap their wings and fly.

Even headless flies took flight when researchers stimulated the correct neurons, according to the study, published in the April 7 issue of the journal Cell.

Scientists say the study could ultimately help identify the cells associated with psychiatric disorders, overeating and aggressiveness.

Biologists have long known that an electrical stimulus can trigger muscle response, but this approach used focused beams of light to stimulate neurons that would have been impossible to study using electrodes.

Gero Miesenbock, associate professor of cell biology at Yale, said if the process could be duplicated on mice, researchers might be able to better understand the cellular activity that leads to certain behavior.

"Ultimately, that could be important to understanding human psychiatric disorders," Miesenbock said. "That's really futuristic stuff."

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Many people here seem to believe human free will is nearly absolute

I'm  one who believe that I have  free will. The expression of victim,(of ANYTHING)  is always based on beliefs and it  is the identification of lack of choices The moment that you're presenting yourself with choices that moment give you the free will and  freedom what  is merely the knowing  of the expression of choice in any and every situation


“You are in physical existence to learn and understand that your energy, translated into feelings, thoughts and emotions, causes all experience. There are no exceptions.. Once you understand this you have only to learn to examine the nature of your beliefs, for these will automatically cause you to feel and think in certain fashions. Your emotions follow your beliefs. It is not the other way around.”Seth – The Nature of Personal Reality, session 614.

Freebird says:

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The soul grows stronger by fighting against the tendencies programmed into the brain, to try to influence behavior in a different direction which is not natural to the personality.

I have to disagree with this as I firmly believe that the SOUL is already perfect. It is us in the physical that are striving for enlightenment so that we can connect with our soul.  

And I totally agree with Dora's post and Seth. ;-)

with Love,
Mairlyn  ;-)

How can you be so sure? Ive seen this side of the coin where soul is perfect, our physical expression is less than?
I attribute that to saying we are a dreadful lot of sin and daubauchary where were cast away into some hell, and our only choice is to do what? ascend?
No, I disagree. If that will lead you, so be it, but I have always found it to be simpler to accept that our exploration of this life in this world , is no lesser than the soul, but is soul in this world, as physical, and it is perfect and always has been.

Of course though, what about the idea that we have become enlightened, as a soul, to enter into physical manifestation in the first place?  How come its always existence on earth as being a place that allows an ascension? or being some lower plane to ascend from? Whats wrong with earth?
Can it be simple as shifting beliefs to change a perception from some illusion of attainment into a reality where ascension matters not.
What is more in line with free will...?
A) chasing a carrot on a string in a metaphor of enlightenment...
Or
B) Eating the carrot?

wrote on Apr 12^th, 2005 at 1:07pm:

“You are in physical existence to learn and understand that your energy, translated into feelings, thoughts and emotions, causes all experience. There are no exceptions..

I would say the exact opposite.  We are in physical existence to learn how to strengthen our creative powers of will, our power of spirit, by working within a vessel of flesh that often rebels against us and drives us in directions we do not consciously choose.  It's like learning how to ride a horse: the horse has its own idea of where to go, how fast to go, etc., and you have to learn how to gain mastery over the horse so that you, the rider, have the control.

The opposite point of view as expressed in your quote above rejects the knowledge of science, which has proved that the brain has a large influence on our experiences.  For example, if an electrode is placed on a certain part of the brain, someone will suddenly experience a certain memory or emotion or will even raise his hand or speak certain words -- automatically, without any input from the soul or spiritual willpower.  Similar effects can be produced by drugs, chemicals or food products, bacteria or viruses in the brain, or various other causes.  To argue that free will is absolute while in a physical body is, according to all the evidence, an erroneous idea.


wrote on Apr 12^th, 2005 at 1:07pm:

Once you understand this you have only to learn to examine the nature of your beliefs, for these will automatically cause you to feel and think in certain fashions. Your emotions follow your beliefs. It is not the other way around.”

That's only half of the story.  There is also the other half, that it can work the other way around, too.  Materialists argue that there is no free will because there is no soul.  Others, such as yourself, seem to be arguing that there is total free will because the brain has no influence at all on our thoughts and behavior.  Both of these extreme positions are not supported by logic and evidence.

Freebird

wrote on Apr 12^th, 2005 at 3:35pm:

I firmly believe that the SOUL is already perfect.

If that is the case, what is the point of incarnating on earth?  Every near-death experience I have read teaches that coming to earth is a learning experience for the growth of the soul.  If the soul is supposed to grow through experiences on earth, then it cannot already be perfect or at its fullest potential.

Also, if the soul is already perfect, then why do NDEs talk about different levels or realms on the other side, such as heavens and hells, belief-system territories, etc., based on the spiritual development of the souls who are there?

Freebird

The brain.... Of course the brain has an effect on our reality. It happens to be the hub of our nervous system and is connected to our outer senses that communicate in our perception of reality.
But we are not all brain, because brain is created in perception as well....we create brain ::)
But this is illogical, because trying to explain what perception is an irrational thing, because we dont see it, we dont see its action. Its invisble to us....

what I mean as perfect. Is not to take this creation and this physical expression of your consciousness for granted, in this sense, you are already perfectly what you are because there is in actuality no imperfect , or guideline by which to measure any imperfection besides judgement or discounting your self.
Denying yourself your right to your awareness that you as a physical manifestataion are already perfect expression of your soul experiencing/ exploring,  that you are already more creative enlightened than you may believe as being a physical manifestation , denying that, seems illogical to me..... ???
But anyway, what has brain to do with enlightenment , perfection, and soul.....anywho




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We are in physical existence to learn how to strengthen our creative powers of will

Ok..lol, this is could be in the learning versus experiencing thread.
I say we are in in physical existence to experience physical, simply....what we learn is by our reasoning capabilities, intelligence, and our conscious awareness mixing together with beliefs possibly in the meantime using your intelligence and reasoning to understand or be consciously aware of  beliefs, reasoning, intelligence, and the absolutely logical rationality.

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I am posting it here because I hope it may spark a discussion about the issue of free will

So let me remind you that I'm not argue with you, but if your idea of discussion is that I have to agree with your idea  that is not the case...


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We are in physical existence to learn how to strengthen our creative powers of will, our power of spirit, by working within a vessel of flesh that often rebels against us and drives us in directions we do not consciously choose.  It's like learning how to ride a horse: the horse has its own idea of where to go, how fast to go, etc., and you have to learn how to gain mastery over the horse so that you, the rider, have the control.

With acceptance of your beliefs, but your reference regarding the riding a horse is a perfect reflection how your beliefs ifluence your perception...
The vessel rebels  ..like a separated entity that has self-awareness.like the horse and the rider ???


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The opposite point of view as expressed in your quote above rejects the knowledge of science, which has proved that the brain has a large influence on our experiences

;D Who's brain is the brain what you have?
Is that jello organ is some separate entity what operate independently from your soul, and  your rebel flesh? Of course it is influence your experience... IT IS A PART OF YOU, just like any other organ.


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To argue that free will is absolute while in a physical body is, according to all the evidence, an erroneous idea. Others, such as yourself, seem to be arguing that there is total free will because the brain has no influence at all on our thoughts and behavior.  Both of these extreme positions are not supported by logic and evidence.

Again I'm not arguing with you, all I can say that every one of us have our own awareness, perceptions and beliefs and with mine I don't create a turmoil, trauma and living hell in my life because I understand what are my beliefs, how those beliefs influence my perceptions and choices  in any given situations.

And most of all I understand that the "soul" not what I have,and waiting form me when I "die" but I am the physical manifestation of my soul/essence and rejecting any  function of the physical  body  is the direct denial of the whole self . In my understanding the true "spirituality" is the harmony between the inner/outter, the subjective/objective selves here in this physical dimension  

We have a lot of free will, but we surrender a lot of it voluntarily when we get an education, get a job, or get married.

 WHOA!  Black and white...white and black...  

 My particular belief system is that freewill is a tricky little thing, with immediate freewill and expanded or holistic freewill.  

 In my view of energy there is the One force, the triad force, and the seven (just looking at it from our system).  One... yet with differences.   In the triad example Spirit is the first cause of all and is the All, that which created or sparked off soul (indivualized Spirit), and soul created physicality/matter.   So, soul in a sense, is a reflection of Spirit, and physical is a reflection of Soul.   Each successive reflection is more "illusionary" or more distorted?   But they intermesh and have a relative relationship.   If there is an underlying unity to all (and i very much believe there is), then reality is relative in many respects.  Its kinda like the sentiment that we are One, can know oneness, but we are not the Totality of the All, because we have a relative relationship to the All.  

 Back to freewill...  I both agree and disagree with  some of the others here...  Why does it have to be either--or, can't it be both?

IMO  Flesh does have its own unique tendencies, it has seem to evolved differently than mind and soul.  But the soul *chooses that particular brain and personality for specific purposes*, it seems to already have an idea of what tendencies and major paths there are to most probably be.  Then of course i don't believe in victims, or ultimate victimization.
  Most metaphysical and afterlife paradigms agree that before we concentrate our consciousness into the physical, we have already made many various pacts with other soul groups and our own, have some knowledge (more or less depending on the individual soul) of our major paths etc, so this implies freewill because we have prechosen, even though in actual experience from our generally limited perspectives here in the dense dimension it seems relatively chaotic and unplanned or conversely fixed or destined by some outside force.  But even with the planning, we can at anytime when in the actual game, choose differently from what we originally planned?

Dora wrote, "Again I'm not arguing with you, all I can say that every one of us have our own awareness, perceptions and beliefs and with mine I don't create a turmoil, trauma and living hell in my life because I understand what are my beliefs, how those beliefs influence my perceptions and choices  in any given situations."

 Do you ever act, feel, or project a thought energy contrary to what your conscious intentions, your beliefs, and your perceptions are?

 If you have, I would say this is flesh in action.  At least i experience this occasionally.  The trick it seems, and a very subtle and hard to grasp concept, is to harmonize flesh, soul/mind, and spirit.  In my mind, it is not a contradiction or paradox to say that they are one, yet different--with their own properties/tendencies..  This is where will does come into play.   Maybe this is why we're experiencing this somewhat unique existence or consciousness?  In the mental realms (where most go after physical) there is an innate harmony of like attracts like, right--pretty easy to get along there with others, to exercise one's will, to create with just a thought, etc, eh?  

 I would respect Seth and such others much more if they were here in the flesh and exspousing their belief systems, a bit more difficult in practise than in theory.  That's the problem i have, specifically with Seth, is that the info is so theoretical, so abstract, so mental, and so passively based.  From what i have read of Seth, he almost conveys the idea (to me) that if i just change my beliefs then i can experience and do anything i want.   And its not that i completly disagree with that, because I do believe belief, thus perception, is extremely important and a key ingredient in manipulating our reality...but is there a missing element(s)?  It doesn't strike me as holistic enough...

 Another problem I have, is that Seth seems to so stress our creating, OUR realities, and of course we can create--we are creators, but we create within the parameters of creation.   Meaning that there are immutable laws that no individual soul can change, though by becoming the law i believe we can trancend the Law.  
 Maybe when we gather in all our disc members along the lines of what Bruce and Bob ultimately discover, then maybe we can create even our own laws, our own entirely unique realities, etc from that raw consciousness energy?
 
 My perception of Seth, and if it is correct it is very important in understanding the degree to which one as Seth can help or facilitate, is that Seth simply isn't there, is not one with the law.  I prefer to align myself with those who are in that awareness, like Yeshua.  Even then, it should always be "checked" against our own inner guidance.

 This brings up another thing that might be worth mentioning.  A person interested in mediumship and in mediums asked Cayce (he was not a medium per se) something along the lines of, how can we know an entity that comes through is of a completely helpful and/or trustworthy source etc.   Cayce said in effect, that in ALL cases if they do not recognize the life, the death, and the resurrection of the last Christ then its best not to trifle with such an entity.  This is interesting since the Source of E.C.'s readings was normally very flexible, lenient, and always stressed that answers should ultimately come within self.  He didn't say that such an entity was bad, evil, or any such dualistic term, but rather they are not in the position to be of universal assistence--probably because they are not functioning from their full Oneness energies.  

 To my knowledge Seth apparently is not in that category.   I still have found info of constructive worth in his teachings though.  I don't knock Seth, nor do i believe one should throw out the baby witht the bathwater.  For some reason, i seem to resonate with and trust Elias much more, dunno why?  

Also to add about freewill...  I find truth in the old saying that character is destiny and it seems that perhaps Freebird is relatively correct in saying (in other posts) that each individual soul sort of was imprinted or came out slightly differently from the raw consciousness (i.e. Spirit) much like the individual snowflake, atom, or whatever, yet though we have a certain base from which we started out from, this doesn't mean we can't modify our innate energy patterns,  changing our character thus changing our destiny.
 It would seem somewhat pointless if the Creator or All that Is, projected us out with a fixed character, a set destiny without some form of freewill, because then we would be nothing but automatons?  And what would that accomplish, perhaps without freewill we would could not be individualized from within the whole?  Maybe that is why we have freewill ultimately?

Justin,

I appreciate that you express you opinion...


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Back to freewill...  I both agree and disagree with  some of the others here...  Why does it have to be either--or, can't it be both?

But here is the first point where our beliefs are different from each other...

In my understanding no, it cannot be both

Either we don't create anything, or we create it all, which I believe...

I understand that many people  align with the metaphysical, or religious beliefs, willing to believe that when the life goes well, then yes, they  accept that it created by the individual, but when something objectively doesn't go well, then it become the expression of the "karma" or "gods will" or "accidents"- or even the "pre-destined path" (no offend intended to any of those beliefs, )


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Do you ever act, feel, or project a thought energy contrary to what your conscious intentions, your beliefs, and your perceptions are?

Since I understand, that we all interact with each other based on our energy projection, which is not depend on  intention, or beliefs but who receive that energy projection is configure that energy according to their perception and that perception is create what I represent to them... so the answer to your question is NO I cannot project energy different then I am...



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I would respect Seth and such others much more if they were here in the flesh and exspousing their belief systems,

Well, I have to say that your comment make me  ;D or maybe I'm not informed correctly but in my knowledge  Cacey is disengaged quite sometimes, who's experiences, writing, teachings, and beliefs you seems like to take as a grain of salt, as the ultimate truth....


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To my knowledge Seth apparently is not in that category.   I still have found info of constructive worth in his teachings though.  I don't knock Seth, nor do i believe one should throw out the baby with the bathwater.  For some reason, i seem to resonate with and trust Elias much more, dunno why?

I don't mean to criticise  your understaning or "trust"  and I'm not saying that I have full understanding of either Seth or Elias material, -if I would, I believe I would of been disengaged by now, would of go through in my transition period, I would of shed all of my focuses belief but but based on your posts  your expressed beliefs,  they are direct contradictions of  Seth and Elias material. In  my understanding, Seth/Elias is the  same material, with different expression, complimentary to each other without contradiction, with incredeble clarity for those who's desire to widening their awareness...   


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Maybe that is why we have freewill ultimately?

Maybe free will comes from freedom, and freedom is the recognition and implementation of choices.

I believe we are here on earth to get a chance to grow our soul through free-will.  If we choose the high road, we can bring unconditional love to the planet, plus we get to take it with us when we loose our human body.  Most people, through conditioning, do not know what love is.
Thanks :)

 Hi Dora,

 I would say we agree on quite a bit.  As far as freewill, perhaps i didn't get my main point across, I do quite believe in it.   I do believe we create, but once again while we are within this system we create within the confines of a already made creation with its own innate laws (for example like attracts like--you cannot create that out of existence Dora), and as much as we would like to believe we can alter those or all laws, but it is only by being compliant with them do we "pass go".  This is hard to take for those who have a strong self-will and powerful self-awareness.  This is shown in the pattern of Yeshua, and as the E.C. readings state anyone who tries to climb up any other way is naught but a thief.   Or, to put in more modern terms, PUL is the only way to ultimate creation or creativeness.  I don't mean this in religious way, never have been, but rather in a practical pragmatic way that Seth, just in my opinion (and i know i could be off) lacks.  

  If Seth talked more about PUL and the power of it, I would respect him more, but he seems (as do many mental entities) quite obsessed with the fact that we can create.  Nothing wrong with that ultimately, but it will not lead to full Oneness unless one aligns to the creative forces, which is what I would like to remember and more importantly express purely.

 Dora wrote, "I understand that many people  align with the metaphysical, or religious beliefs, willing to believe that when the life goes well, then yes, they  accept that it created by the individual, but when something objectively doesn't go well, then it become the expression of the "karma" or "gods will" or "accidents"- or even the "pre-destined path" (no offend intended to any of those beliefs, )"

 Nah, don't subscribe to any of those belief systems either.  Besides, perhaps i interpret Karma differently than you, to me it is nothing but creative expression, not good, not bad, but as many energy reactions show, it has its cause and it has its effect.  For me, the way through Karma is pure love and detachment from all reactions to Karma, or in other words self-detachment.   This doesn't necessarily negate Karma, but it then doesn't have any power over you.  No matter what you put forth and express, it will come back its just like attracts like--an attribute of that energy that was here before you or i even existed in a individualized consciousness.

 Dora wrote, "so the answer to your question is NO I cannot project energy different then I am..."

 I totally agree 100 percent.  Yet i would add a twist.  No one attains higher than their ideals in life.   No matter how much you believe in any particular belief system whether espoused by Seth, Cayce's Source(s), Yeshua, Buddha, Elias, me, you, etc., it will get you no where vibrationally speaking unless by expressing/creating in alignment with your highest spiritual ideals.   The highest ideal anyone individual soul can have, i would argue, is PUL.  The very stuff that allows you to create in the first place, the very stuff that made it possible for you, I and everything to come into existence.

Dora wrote, "Well, I have to say that your comment make me   or maybe I'm not informed correctly but in my knowledge  Cacey is disengaged quite sometimes, who's experiences, writing, teachings, and beliefs you seems like to take as a grain of salt, as the ultimate truth.... "

 Well hurumpp!  LOL, since you *attacked* my belief systems (i'm quite joking) i will have to defend my precious ego belief system beliefs.   No i do not believe Cayce has the ultimate truth, or covers everything.   He was in touch, for the most part, with the purely Universal Sources, those that Monroe contacted nearing the Apperature, those who are "completed".  This is why Cayce has been unique compared to many mediums or channels.  Cayce's work was described in one reading as the "work of the Masters of Masters".   Is Seth of a faster vibration than such?  Jane Roberts was in touch with but an indivualized essence--not necessarily faster in vibration than your soul or mine.  Also, how much has Roberts been validated and verified in the real world, whereas the Cayce material speaks for itself in its long history of helpfullness and independent verifications.   Besides,  the truth comes in the doing, the experiencing, not in the believing...Hey just like your little usual end quote! ;)

 Also, if i took Cayce's Sources as the so called "ultimate truth" why would i have read and loved Monroe's books, Bruce's books, Rosiland's book (her new book maybe you could gain something from), so many others, and why the heck would i be here when i could stick to my hallowed Cayce sites with everyone being a Cayce-ite too?   Why would i not just bash Seth and such, i'm not particularly concerned with what people here think of me?  I try to see the good in his material, even though in my eyes there are *red flags* around the Seth material.

 One very blatant example:  I read in a Seth book a bit about some so called historical knowledge (I believe it was "Seth Speaks").  In his little dissertion of the life of Yeshua, Seth says that Yeshua did not go to the cross to die, that he didn't *need* to die, and that they picked a false Christ who was somewhat popular around the time, drugged him and he was the one crucified.   Yeshua made off scott free alive.  So we have no crucification of Christ, and certainly no resurrection right?

 This is contrary to much scientific, historical information and verified objective facts, as any well trained and knowledgable biblical scholar will tell you.   This is very contrary to the ENTIRE theme, purpose, structure of the Cayce readings which have been time and time again histortically verified in many departments whether through or by health, changes, historical facts, degree of helpfullness, and sheer immensity of books written based on such concepts etc.   Whatever Cayce was, he was certainly good at reading the Akashic.  

 This is also quite contrary to all the very scientific evidence for the Turin Shroud.  Just ignoring all that evidence--interesting factoid:  Cayce gave a reading back in the early 30's about the physical appearance of Yeshua.  One of the details was that he would have weighed at least 170 lbs.   The scientifically trained expert, who much later was to work on reconstructing the physical profile of the man on the cloth, said that to the best approximation that this man would have weighed...what...drum roll please...170 lbs.  What a coinkydink?

 Then you also have Monroe and his 1800 yr old buddy, which in Monroe's wording seemed to be known in some manner, "occidental", "no one really believes you exist" etc.  Oh yeah, did i mention he was at least 1800 years old and all of Yeshua's disciples (real historical people), and the Cayce readings say that Yesh died then resurrected his body to a form (physically immortal Light form) that Seth couldn't even be able to comprehend, able to shift through any dimension at will, even with physical attributes.  Hmmm... yet another coinkydink.  Yet there are more examples.  Rosiland Mcknight's guides firmly recognize that Yeshua functions from the light body, and they even go so far as to refer to him as the highest vibratory being to come to earth.  

  But all of this, and more could just be wrong or just my belief system, i suppose.   I think we would both agree that in the end, they're just beliefs and individual perceptions...

In PUL

P.S.  A little challenge:  from reading your posts, i would say that you and I both believe that everything is energy, and that matter is just disguised pure energy, or a similar sentiment?   Then in both of our belief systems, for example, there really is no difference between walking on water than on cement right... both are just varying vibrations of Pure Light energy?   So with this belief firm in your mind, go out to a lake and walk on the surface of the water (lol, not frozen ice water).  

 If your beliefs create your reality, and since you know better, you should be able to do it according to your belief system?   Betchya you can't no matter what you believe...  this is the missing ingredient of why you can't and won't.   I can't either, but i know the missing ingredient, i just got to work on expressing it to the point of a certain personage--for example.  Got to speed up your total vibrations to a the fastest vibration there is if you want your reality to follow your beliefs and creating in such an example.

 

  I would say that there is a universal search on part of all people, I believe all people want to be happy even though their concept of "happiness" or what brings happiness can vary so much.
   I love this reading.  It took me years to come to understand it fully, cause i had so much self-will mostly.  
Here is the quote from the reading (the words don't matter, its the spirit of the message): "So soon as man contemplates his free will he thinks of it as the means of the opposite of God's will, though he finds that only by doing God's will does he find happiness.  Yet the notion of serving doesn't sit well with him, for he sees it as a sacrifice of his will.
  Only in disillusion and suffering, in time, space, and patience, does he come to the wisdom that his real will is the will of God, and its practice is happiness and heaven." 2537-1

 Now this quote is taken from an online version of Bruce's article for Nexus Magazine.  Perhaps this is Consciousness's (God's, The All that Is, etc) Will or Purpose?

 "HUMANKIND'S PURPOSE
In every reality in which these human beings had ever lived, they were constantly, usually unknowingly, learning to experience and express pure, unconditional love to a greater and greater degree. Whenever they acted out of love, they moved closer to graduation; and when they didn't, they moved further away.

During their physical lifetimes, random acts of kindness and willingness to help others taught them to better express and experience love. When they were trapped in Focus 23, experiencing the loving assistance of others who freed them, they were learning. When they worked at the Reception Centre, easing the

transition of others into their new way of living in the afterlife, they were learning. When they re-entered the hells of Focus 25, places they themselves had lived, they were learning. At every turn they were learning to better experience and express pure, unconditional love.

In my continuing exploration of our afterlife and beyond, I've become convinced that the course charted by these 'graduates', these Angels, is our path and destiny; the purpose and the legacy of humankind's existence within all of Consciousness."

Dora and Justin,

A few things I wanted to mention in response to some things you have said.

First, I am not arguing that we have no free will.  As I have said before, we have some free will while in the physical body but it is not absolute, because it is conditioned by a body and brain of flesh, which is programmed with animal instincts, genetic tendencies, memories, etc.  The challenge of living in a body is to learn how to increase the power of your free will, a spiritual faculty, over the power of your body, so that you will not be ruled by the body/brain system but more by your own voluntary willpower.

Second, it is possible that free will is absolute when the spirit is not connected to a body, although I still am inclined to reject such an idea of absolute human free will because I believe in God and higher powers who impose their will on us to some extent, for our own good.  But, I will agree that we have significantly more free will while outside the body than when we are in a body.

Third, I think it is important to realize that we are not our mind.  The mind is something that is part of us, but when our body dies, a large part of our mind dies with it because the mind is very strongly influenced by the physical brain.  Anyone who has studied psychology or neurology knows this.  What aspects of mind remain after death, I would think are the parts that are of the spirit and pure consciousness, rather than a lot of personality traits and tendencies that were part of a life in a particular physical body and conditioned by experiences in that body.

Fourth, I am surprised that anyone would claim that they never experience things that are not because of their own choice.  If one believes all events, including "accidents," are pre-determined by one's own choice before being born, fine.  I don't totally agree with that, but I can accept it as a legitimate point of view for consideration.  But not everything can be planned.  Maybe determined by the matter and energy in the universe operating according to physical laws, but not necessarily planned by human choice.  Dora, are you saying you never get thoughts in your head that you did not specifically choose to have?  If that is true, you must be a Buddhist master superior even to Siddharta Gautama himself!  Even The Buddha did not have 100% voluntary control over his own mental life, though he was probably one of the most self-controlled people in human history.  The reason is because we are physical animals with a physical brain, and we have instincts like all other animals which we are not choosing.  Just by being a human, for example, you have a sex drive.  For example, every time a man gets aroused by looking at a naked woman and gets an erection, he does not choose to have that erection.  It just happens because of instinct programmed into the brain.  So it is obvious from ordinary human experience that free will is not absolute, especially when it comes to our thoughts.  That's just common sense.  By being incarnated into a body, a person is relinquishing some of their free will -- probably in an attempt to have a challenge for spiritual growth that would be impossible without the limitations and proclivities of a physical body/brain vessel.

Freebird

Justin,


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I would say we agree on quite a bit.

I wouldn't event know where I would start to express, how much we do not agree on anything  NOT that has anything to do with our own reality....  ;)


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and as much as we would like to believe we can alter those or all laws,

May I ask who is "we"? You expressing YOUR beliefs, just as I express mine, and the best I can say is that "in my beliefs' in my understanding" IF that is beneficial to my essence, my intent, I could and I DO alter not your "laws" but my reality.


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If Seth talked more about PUL and the power of it, I would respect him more, but he seems (as do many mental entities) quite obsessed with the fact that we can create.

If Seth would of talked about PUL, more likely I wouldn't read it... I align with their explanation what LOVE mean, which is a state of being there is no different kind of a love, LOVE IS... one of the few "truth" which apply to every dimension, every reality... and not the objective emotion what we call love...

What you mean "mental entities" and obsessed, how didyou draw the conclusion that a non-physical personality who is not in any way manifested in this physical dimension is expressing some objective emotion, like obsession?

I said:

"I understand that many people  align with the metaphysical, or religious beliefs, willing to believe that when the life goes well, then yes, they  accept that it created by the individual, but when something objectively doesn't go well, then it become the expression of the "karma" or "gods will" or "accidents"- or even the "pre-destined path" (no offend intended to any of those beliefs, )"


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Nah, don't subscribe to any of those belief systems either.

I don't know that you meant as a joke or, (no offend again) you indeed  so unaware of your own belief's?

Let's put together based on your posts the bowl of beliefs....
Karma, pure love (can you explain the difference between pure and non-pure, self-detachment, (how can you detach yourself from YOU???) "high" vibration "low vibration" just a few and sprinkled with a Highest  Master of the Masters "salt"...
You represent every  metaphysical, religious, duplicity individual and "mass beliefs" as possible...  

Again, you believe what you believe... that's what resonate with your awareness and I'm also very well aware that you and all the Seth and Elias "basher" don't resonate with them because it is simply do not fit to  your  beliefs, and for that reason, each of you is ignorant (before some of you will jump, not as a person, not as on individual) but ignorant to the material, therefore you  pick and choose "quotes" what  seems support your "red flag"...

Now again, without the intent to judge or a critic's about your beliefs, because I'm aware and understand, that long as we physically manifested, and the "blue print" created by US as essences, we inserted those beliefs to our physical realities, we hold all of the beliefs, and the "free will" is that which are what we align with by choice... not to eliminate the rest, but accept them as they are objective beliefs and they only apply in this dimension and in our transition period. And that is my understanding according to my awareness.

Your evidence, your logic is support your awareness, your perceptions and your beliefs, and I have absolutely NO DOUBT that it is the truth for you, but have no meaning to me...


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So with this belief firm in your mind, go out to a lake and walk on the surface of the water (lol, not frozen ice water).

 

This comment from you is again,  based on your objective thoughts show your lack of understanding what does really  mean  that "you create  ALL of your reality"

Why in the heck I would want to walk on water?

BTW thank you for telling your story regarding my question why you believe what you believe, but what I was looking for is more like... what is the reasonings of your expressed beliefs...  

Freebird,

My answer to Justin  apply to your comments also, but I also have a question for you....

How are your beliefs working for you?

Are those beliefs help to balance your inner and outer self, your beliefs make you a happy, healty person who is able to "celebrate" what suppose to be the biggest "gift" from the big guy, your life?
If it does more power to you, if not then you might consider  that  change perceptions require change of beliefs, and that will change your life outcome.

wrote on Apr 15^th, 2005 at 10:16pm:

Freebird, My answer to Justin  apply to your comments also, but I also have a question for you.... How are your beliefs working for you?

First of all, that should not be the main purpose of beliefs, IMO.  I am more interested in fact and truth, not picking some beliefs that make me feel good even if they are blatantly untrue.

In all honesty, I cannot have a very high level of intellectual respect for people who decide to believe what they believe primarily because it "works" for them, not because they are genuinely interested in seeking truth.  My whole life, I have been a curious person with a drive to search for truth, and to put aside whatever false ideas or beliefs might be holding me back from the truth.  My desire to find and uphold truth is so strong, that I am willing to change my mind about major issues and modify my whole belief system when I find new evidence to show that I was in error -- and I have done this several times in the past.  I think open minded truth-seeking is a good thing, whereas willingness to believe whatever makes one feel good regardless of truth is a bad thing, a wrong choice to make if one is interested in spiritual growth.


wrote on Apr 15^th, 2005 at 10:16pm:

Are those beliefs help to balance your inner and outer self, your beliefs make you a happy, healty person who is able to "celebrate" what suppose to be the biggest "gift" from the big guy, your life? If it does more power to you, if not then you might consider  that  change perceptions require change of beliefs, and that will change your life outcome.

Your philosophy is riddled with denial of open facts about how the world works.  Health is not primarily based on what we believe, but on genetics, microbes, exposures in the environment and life experiences that effect the body.  True happiness does not arise from believing things that are phony because they make us "feel good" in some empty way; true happiness comes from having a purpose and a goal in life and doing your best to live up to it, and by seeking truth and striving to live according to truth to be the best person you can be.  We cannot truly celebrate life nor believe in the "Big Guy" unless we are interested in truths beyond the confines of our own mind; to do otherwise is solipsism, self-absorbtion and retreat from the external universe which leads to spiritual regression.

As for how my beliefs have affected my life -- although this has nothing to do with whether or not they are true -- I will say that my current belief system of universalism, trust in God to save all souls and transform us into the image of perfection, and the belief that Jesus shows us the way to live a good moral life and achieve spiritual growth, is indeed a set of beliefs that has helped me to become a better person.  When I was a fundamentalist, less open minded, and less willing to adapt my beliefs to facts and realities, I was a worse person.  I am in the process of growing more compassionate, more loving and tolerant of all people, and more able to forgive myself and others for mistakes and recognize that all that occurs is part of a process that God is using for the ultimate benefit of the whole world including every single soul.

I admit that many of my religious beliefs are just that, beliefs.  But they make sense to me, they encourage me to seek after God and spiritual growth for myself and for others, and they do not inherently conflict with the reality we see all around us.  Some of my beliefs are based heavily on fact, such as the evidence revealed by science.  I think it's important to incorporate facts of known life and the universe into one's belief system whenever possible.  I can't do that with all my beliefs, but whenever possible, I try to do so.

Freebird

Dora,

A quick question for you:  Can you create an object to appear out of thin air and appear in your hand?  For example, can you think about an apple and literally think it into existence, so that your empty hand now contains an apple?  Can you look at an object and cause it to move, through telekinesis?  Can you walk on water?

If you cannot do things like this, even if you try very hard, then how can you continue believing in absolute free will without embracing an absurd logical contradiction?

I have tried such experiments before, and it didn't work.  I know other people who have also tried to perform miracles and failed too.  That's one good reason why most people realize absolute free will is false.

I have read NDEs in which a person can do miraculous things once freed from the body, that when we are in the spirit we can actually create things through the power of our thoughts.  Perhaps that really is possible, when the spirit is not subject to the restrictions of physical life.  But in the flesh, hardly anyone can do this.  Jesus was able to, and probably a few other gurus and prophets in history.  But the physical laws of the universe preclude the possibility of absolute free will for people living in physical bodies, unless they are very rare and extremely advanced souls that have superior powers to defy nature.

I guess what I don't understand is how you can maintain your belief system when it completely contradicts all ordinary human life experience.  Doesn't that create a terrible inner conflict in your mind, and a constant sense of insecurity that your whole worldview is based on a shaky foundation?

Freebird

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Doesn't that create a terrible inner conflict in your mind, and a constant sense of insecurity that your whole worldview is based on a shaky foundation?

Freebird you are judging my reality based in YOURS, as you expressed with your own words the inner-mental conflicts you experience in your life, you have NO idea which is my reality, or my worldview.

   Hi Dora,

  Seeing as i'm just a lowly human, apparently I need my illusionary dualistic belief systems, but once again i do believe you have misinterpreted some of my beliefs.

 Have you ever seen "What the Bleep Do We Know?",    
I saw it, enjoyed it, and agree with everything in it, especially the part that we create our own realities.

 No, i do not believe in "higher" or "lower"--don't believe i wrote such, but i do believe in faster and slower vibrations.   I believe as Bruce apparently believes and as he stated in the quotes of that article that I posted that one gets closer or farther away from graduation according to how much one puts forth and to what degree, expresses PUL.

 This seems to me to have been the standard throughout the ages Dora, way before Seth came along.   I believe Seth is valuable in explaining certain aspects of how energy works, and gives good tips in recognizing the fact that we do have choices, that we do create our own realities etc.  

 Bruce talks quite a bit of PUL, and yet you read or have read his stuff?

  Non-duality to me, doesn't mean that a person can't recognize differences such as fast vibration vs low vibration, or any comparitive constructs.   I take the ultimate view that we are all "Masters",  but my non-dualistic beliefs allow for both either and or, that we are masters all connected, but also masters in the making each vibrating at various patterns and speeds of vibration.   It seems to me that your beliefs that things must be either--or, is true duality.  The eye of the paradox, the relative universe....    Also since i've been here, it seems that you "come" out and post mostly to point out differences, to debate, to argue, etc..--this to me is duality in action, whereas the "master in action" (imo) may recognize differences in perception but perhaps rather looks for and stresses the similarities--the Unity.  


  Dora, when did I ever on this site refer to love as an emotion?

 You're very right, you can never really detach yourself from yourself otherwise you might not exist as an individual essence, but in my own life i have had very self-attached reactions, and very self-detached reactions (and everything in between) where it felt as if I stepped outside of myself and watched self pass by, usually for the self perceived benefit of another.  I know some here might relate to a similar concept though they might word it differently.   This is as good a definition for PUL as i can come up with, other than a knowingness that all is connected.

 Dora, i'm well aware that these are just my beliefs, and ususally say as such.  But,  I do believe there is an ultimate standard of a sort.   Is there such a thing as evolution, does a soul evolve, grow, etc, if such is the case than may it not be to far out from left-field to consider that there is some kind of standard against which growth takes place--regardless of the wisdom of Seth?   I don't believe in ulitmate right or wrongs for everyone, or good and evil but rather it personal thing, a personal growth for each soul in its relative relationship to its Maker.

 You wrote, "Why in the heck I would want to walk on water?"

  Why not?  Could be fun?  That really wasn't the point anyways was it?   I was callling you on your bluff--as stated in your beliefs--your beliefs, your perceptions create your own reality correct?  

 I believe it is possible for anyone to walk on water, once again relatively speaking, but i believe it takes two things, belief and za missing ingredient which is  never really missing, but rather requires self to open up too.   This and other things are something that certain individuals have expressed in various ages--not the least of which the Buddha, Krishna, Yeshua, Dionysus, Osiris, etc................    Heck all Bob's future buddies of 3500 collectively express it as does all his past buddies of a million or so years ago.

 My point is, what keeps you or I from expressing such mastery of reality if such is possible as others have demonstrated?  imo, it has everything to do with being aligned with the fastest collective vibration.  Can i just convince myself i am, perhaps in a sense, but i still need to put it forth towards every other aspect of creation.  Otherwise, whats the whole point of retreivals and other such service work...isn't this love in action depending on the spirit in which someone does it.

 Or to quote Alysia in her wisdom (just my belief..sheesh do i have to say that everytime--i think its understood by now)  "It has everything to do with PUL."

 

    According to my belief system which is indirectly supported by Monroe's accounts, by Cayce's Sources, by many metaphysical or spiritual sources like certain modalities of Yoga:   Aging is an illusion and those who truly live in non-duality do not age, its not even a conscious thing but rather they JUST DON"T AGE.  

  Would you agree to the above, is this part of your belief system?

  If you do, then i would ask are you aging?

 If so, why?

Justin,


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Bruce talks quite a bit of PUL, and yet you read or have read his stuff

YES I have, and also attended in his worksop, and based on his technique I have had and HAVE numerous subjective projections, and retrievals as well.

BUT, as you  me and everyone else  INTERPRET their own experiences, what is ALWAYS colored by  our  own perception and beliefs.

My own understandings/interpretations  different then yours or Bruces, or Cacey, or Rosie, or whoever you want to name because as their experiences true to them or you, so as mine true to me.

I'm not a follower or worship anyone, one of the most value of Seth, Elias, and somewhat Bruce's that they emphesize the trust in  your own self, your own impressions, your own individual understanding which you and I as everyone else do, according to our awareness...



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I was callling you on your bluff--as stated in your beliefs--your beliefs, your perceptions create your own reality correct?

Again you calling something as my bluff what is based on your understanding or should say lack of it, how I understand and how I  apply that yes I create all of my reality.

Then again to understand that I had to be able to understand what perception, and beliefs really are And that was my interest, regardless what anyone else think or say sarcastically or otherwise..
 

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My point is, what keeps you or I from expressing such mastery of reality if such is possible as others have demonstrated?

HOW in the earth you know how is my reality or what I create, your knowledge about mine is based one what?

I don't see any benefit to either of us to continue this conversation, because our fundemental difference in understanding make it pointless...

I respect your beliefs, and expect no less from you....

   Very much agreed! :)  And i do respect your beliefs.  I find other peoples beliefs interesting whether or not i completely understand them.  Sometimes i'm totally blown away by the sheer uniqueness of all those expressing an individual essence, the awesomeness and diversity of creation.

 Namaste

wrote on Apr 16^th, 2005 at 8:33am:

Freebird you are judging my reality based in YOURS, as you expressed with your own words the inner-mental conflicts you experience in your life, you have NO idea which is my reality, or my worldview.

1.  I am not judging, I am attempting to have an intellectual conversation, which involves analyzing and evaluating different points of view in an attempt to find truth.

2.  There is no such thing as "my reality" and "your reality."  There is only one objective reality, and all else is personal imagination or interpretation, rather than reality.

3.  My reference to inner mental conflicts was not about me.  You completely misinterpreted what I was saying.  In fact, I feel much more mentally secure because of my belief, based on ample evidence all around me, that human free will in this world is not absolute, and therefore when bad things happen to us we do not necessarily need to feel guilty all the time because sometimes things that happen are not our own choices.  The point I was making is that people who believe in absolute free will must feel an inner mental tension because every time things happen to them that they cannot control, or they find they are unable to do something they wanted to do, their worldview is fundamentally challenged by such experiences.

4.  It is true that I do not know what is your reality, as you said, because you still have not answered my questions.  Are you, or are you not, able to exercise absolute free will to do anything you desire, without regard for the laws and limitations of the physical universe?  If not, then your stated worldview is false.

5.  As for your worldview, I would be interested to hear what are the logical and evidential underpinnings for it, as you understand it.  You have only stated beliefs and asserted them as truth, without providing any logical arguments or scientific evidence to support your worldview.  But, as a basic feature of your worldview, it appears you are not interested in what is actually true in an objective sense, only in what is "true" within the confines of your own personal sphere of reality, a.k.a. a solipsistic philosophy of life.  That is unfortunate.

6.  I would suggest, if you are ever interested in having a rational discussion about issues such as free will or any other spiritual or philosophical issue, in which people may learn from one another in an open minded search for truth, you should consider adopting a less confrontational stance and refrain from personalizing the issue.  For example, instead of responding to the legitimate questions and ideas I raised on the topic, you chose to write a one-liner in bold type that does not actually clarify what you believe and what reasoning supports it.  Perhaps a different approach would be more beneficial and productive.

At this point, seeing that we practically live in different universes and cannot find any common ground on which to even begin a process of intellectual give-and-take, it would probably be fruitless for us to continue.

You have a right to your beliefs and I have a right to mine, and maybe that's all we'll ever agree on in this lifetime.  ;D  Of course, one never knows; perhaps a few years from now, one or both of us will have had new experiences that will totally change the way we think.  The important thing, IMO, is always to be open to the fact that there is a larger Truth out there, beyond ourselves, waiting to be discovered.  I consider it unfortunate that even this basic idea is not a value we currently share.

Peace,
Freebird

Freebird,
...



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I would suggest, if you are ever interested in having a rational discussion about issues such as free will or any other spiritual or philosophical issue

You're right, therefore..Your lack of comprehension to understand what is my understanding  and why, I create ALL my reality, is leaves our discussion  totally pointless...

wrote on Apr 16^th, 2005 at 9:29pm:

Your lack of comprehension to understand what is my understanding  and why, I create ALL my reality, is leaves our discussion  totally pointless...

As I have said, I would like to understand your point of view, if you are willing to explain the justification for it rather than just assert it.  It's hard to comprehend something that is left unexplained, especially when it is a very unusual and radical idea such as your stated belief that you create all your reality.  I am always interested to hear why people believe as they do on important issues.  Feel free to explain your viewpoint if you wish.  Probably we won't see eye to eye, but something could be gained for both of us if you choose to set forth the reasoning behind your belief that you are 100% in control of every aspect of the reality you experience.  There must be some kind of philosophical explanation for this idea you hold, because it contradicts ordinary observation about life in this world and therefore there must be a deeper reason for how you can believe this to be true.

If you choose not to explain because you feel I would not get it anyway, that's fine too... your call.  But I have a degree in philosophy so it's not hard for me to understand viewpoints when they are presented and justified coherently, even if I don't agree with them.

Peace,
Freebird

Hi Freebird,

What I learned-so far-is that, Since I hold to the doctrine of freewill, and at the base of my belief system is the golden rule, then I use my freewill to practice the golden rule in making decisions.  Life can be very complex and we can get confused easily, but in listening to our hearts (Gut) and the little voice that is aligned to the golden rule, I stay pretty much on track.  I have the freewill to choose this way of looking at things.  I have the freewill to engage in a conflict or not, the freewill to be angry or not, the freewill to be open to another or not, the free will to love or hate, I’m sure that you get my drift.

Anyhow, IMO- Since I/WE am/are of the source, sent out to gather data, possessing/using the tool’s of creation (ie. imagination, intention, curiosity, PUL, etc), then I am the creator of all my experiences and my worlds.  I am starting to remember this but JC remembered this a bit better than the rest of us.  As I/WE remember more and gain confidence, I expect that I/WE all will eventually be able to use the tools provided to manifest “things” on the physical level (the kind you’re referring to as proof).  Some physicals can already do this and I’m sure you can list them.  As for me, I manifest my life and all the things in it on one level or another, (consciously, subconsciously, sub-sub consciously) continually.  I can also decide to delegate the whole issue of my freewill to someone or something outside myself.  It may be a cop out and slow my growth down, IMO, but that’s the great thing about freewill.  For example, this response to your post, which is an attempt to address both freewill and IMO the fact that we create all of our reality, collectively and individually is done with my permission.  The “devil” didn’t make me do it!    

Therefore, as I see it, I am the creator of all my experiences and so are you.  I realize that the support for this view is weak but it is getting stronger day by day, but in the meantime, do not take it as an excuse to blame yourself for all the “bad” things that happen in you life because we all are just starting to remember this basic and have it effect our physical/emotional lives.  IMO,But-we start by changing our minds about the little things we come across in our daily lives.  IMO,We are free to do this.  Someone insults us; we question what’s going on ???.  Did we misinterpret because we are feeling unloving towards ourselves or maybe the other guy is feeling threatened, fearful, or generally unloving inside.  Because remember, “Happy campers” don’t feel threatened or threaten.  IMO, We have the power/freewill to change our minds about anything and act accordingly and that our reality reflects this.  

I don’t know if any of the above helps you in clarifying the concept of us being responsible for all of our reality, but I do hold to this doctrine now because, for me, it’s the only one that makes sense/resonates.  

Love to all, Jean :-*

   

Jean,

Thanks for your explanation.  A lot of what you said makes sense to me, and I agree to some extent.  However, I think it would be more accurate to say that we all have the potential to be creators of all our reality, but that only a few of us (e.g. Jesus) are already capable of using this power to the fullest while existing in the physical body.  For analogy, everyone is potentially capable of bench-pressing 300 pounds, but only a few people have done the intensive training necessarily to actually accomplish it.  I think my view that life in the physical is a training ground for developing spiritual power fits nicely with the view that we are potential creators of all our reality, but not with the view that we already are.

Freebird

Ok-the question now is, if you, the individual freebird living in the now, you the freebird including all of your sum totals of past, present and future, and you the freebird as part of the collective conscious that has gone before and exists for all time did not create all of your current reality or your view of collective reality, who did?  ???

Remember you can’t blame outside forces because there really aren’t any to be blamed for our own personal view of our reality or our view of collective reality.  Remember that’s all it is unless you choose to view your reality and your view of collective reality through the eyes of outside “experts”.  Even scientists can’t agree on one ultimate objective reality that applies to all things and all individuals. That’s also why the same “bad” thing can happen to different individuals and the reaction to it can be so varied.  Some go into deep depression while others create support groups.    

Your analogy of pressing 300 pounds is good, except how many of us really choose to do this?  As far as physical feats like lifting 300 pounds, walking on fire (which many did in the 70’s), living a healthy life without eating or drinking food or water, etc. reading some of the Hindu mystics experiences, as a start, gives some great examples of these accomplishments.    

Note: I’m defining reality generally as the multi-dimensional universe including but going beyond the merely physical.  Maybe that’s the problem.  Anyhow, what do you think?

Love, Jean

wrote on Apr 17^th, 2005 at 4:05pm:

Ok-the question now is, if you, the individual freebird living in the now, you the freebird including all of your sum totals of past, present and future, and you the freebird as part of the collective conscious that has gone before and exists for all time did not create all of your current reality or your view of collective reality, who did?  ???

That's an easy one: God.  :)

God created me and created you, both our physical bodies and also our spirits.  Every spirit that exists and every physical particle and physical law that exists is a creation/emanation of God.

It is because I believe in God, a Supreme Being, that I believe there is an objective reality which is what is really true in an absolute sense.  God's perspective on reality is objective reality.  Our various limited human perspectives are less accurate versions or perceptions of God's ultimate reality.  They contain some truth and some error.  On the other hand, God contains only truth and no error, because that is by definititon what a Supreme Intelligence is.


wrote on Apr 17^th, 2005 at 4:05pm:

Remember you can’t blame outside forces because there really aren’t any to be blamed for our own personal view of our reality or our view of collective reality.

If God created us and formed us according to a higher plan that precedes our existence, then yes, indeed we can look to forces beyond ourselves for certain aspects of our view of reality.  For example, God gave each of us a spirit with certain inclinations, and we find ourselves in a body with certain genetic programming, parents, formative experiences, etc.  It is possible that we are allowed to choose what body to incarnate into based on our own free will (although that idea is open to question), but even if so, the way we have chosen is due in part to the tendencies of the will which is an aspect of our spirit which God created.  Therefore, everything we choose is ultimately because of the way God made us.  In the final analysis, if there is a God, then all things proceed from God and all things return to God.  God is all that really exists, and everything else, including us, are merely emanations of God.

That's how I see it.  My view is based heavily on belief in a Supreme Being who is totally in control of everything that exists and occurs.  Within this theistic framework, even our own "free will" choices are influenced by the plan of God beyond our knowledge or control.


wrote on Apr 17^th, 2005 at 4:05pm:

Even scientists can’t agree on one ultimate objective reality that applies to all things and all individuals.

True.  I would say that is because only God is omniscient.  Limited human beings cannot know everything, because our brains are limited and we are living within the universe, precluding the possibility of looking upon it from an external perspective.  Perhaps when we leave the body at death, we might gain such capabilities of greater knowledge and a superior perspective.


wrote on Apr 17^th, 2005 at 4:05pm:

That’s also why the same “bad” thing can happen to different individuals and the reaction to it can be so varied.  Some go into deep depression while others create support groups.

There are various reasons contributing to such differences.  Some of it could be because of the level of certain chemicals and hormones in the brain or the condition and number of receptors for neurotransmitters, which strongly influence our thoughts and behavior.  Some of it could be because of the relative strength of different people's spiritual abilities to deal with challenges and overcome them.  Some of it could be because one person has more help from God, angels, spirit guides, or other beneficial external forces than another person.  Some of it could be because of slightly different circumstances or initial conditions that lead to big differences in the final outcome.


wrote on Apr 17^th, 2005 at 4:05pm:

Your analogy of pressing 300 pounds is good, except how many of us really choose to do this?

My point was that some things are difficult to do and require lots of training to achieve, which shows that human freedom is not inherently absolute, only potentially so.  The same principle should apply in regard to spiritual things such as the ability to conquer great obstacles, perform miracles or overcome the laws of the physical universe through willpower.


wrote on Apr 17^th, 2005 at 4:05pm:

Note: I’m defining reality generally as the multi-dimensional universe including but going beyond the merely physical.  Maybe that’s the problem.  Anyhow, what do you think?

I certainly agree with you that without the limitations of being incarnated into a physical organism, there should be a much greater degree of free will available to us.  When I argue that free will is limited, I am generally referring to the condition of life on earth in an incarnated condition, not the afterlife beyond the physical world, which we know much less about.

Freebird

Freebird,

I really appreciate your spontaneous, thoughtful, and kind response of providing me with your view of reality.  Though we may not share the same view, there’s a sense of mutual respect in the exchange. I’ve also noticed it before in your responses to others on this board.  I would suggest that you might consider exploring the afterlife, right now, while you’re in the physical body, but I suspect that you're already doing this as evidenced by your vivid recall that dream you had of Urumqi, of all places.  I’m impressed.  You may chalk it off as just a dream, but I’m really impressed.
   
Love, Jean  

Jean,

Thanks for your kind words.  A few years ago, I used to be a person who had a tendency to intellectual arrogance and fundamentalism in my beliefs.  Since I realized this was wrong, I have really made an effort to cultivate open-mindedness, non-judgmentalism and respect for different points of view, even if I don't agree with them.  Now, there are only a few core beliefs and principles I hold strongly, and on just about everything else I am somewhat agnostic.  My overall philosophy is that if a person is trying the best they can to grow in the spirit of love, forgiveness, service to others, self-sacrifice, moral rectitude, and a purposeful life, then it doesn't matter so much what all the details are about religion and the afterlife.  We can speculate and think about it and share ideas, and if we are lucky we may have experiences such as dreams and visions, NDEs and OBEs, etc. -- but we will find out everything for sure when we die, and some of what we learn might surprise us.

Freebird

Freebird,

My overall philosophy is that if a person is trying the best they can to grow in the spirit of love, forgiveness, service to others, self-sacrifice, moral rectitude, and a purposeful life, then it doesn't matter so much what all the details are about religion and the afterlife.

Me too, your're sweet. Love, Jean