WOW!!
A friend of mine who's a professional reporter took these terrific pics of Orbs during the funeral!!!

http://www.webalice.it/cipidoc/photo2.htm

Much L,L&S
Claudio  
:o

Hello,

I have seen these orbs before in pictures that even I have taken, not at funerals or anything but at electronic music parties. I thought it was moisture or something in the air. I have a few pictures like, what are they??

wrote on Oct 19^th, 2005 at 9:23am:

Hello, I have seen these orbs before in pictures that even I have taken, not at funerals or anything but at electronic music parties. I thought it was moisture or something in the air. I have a few pictures like, what are they??

Dust on the lense/in the air.

Hello all

I whipped up this web page quickly to give you an example of dust on the lens or in the air; it is interesting take a look

http://www.tv-radio.info/orbs/

I Embossed these pictures my self, to see if the anomaly occurs take a look for your self.

Yup, it's pretty conclusive, that orbs are mearly dust particals.

wrote on Oct 31^st, 2005 at 1:11am:

[ in what ways you find it pretty conclusive that  orbs are only dust particals? i am not familiar with the issue and i would like to hear the both parties. the other arguments seem to mention about "embossement"(is this the right way of spelling/using this word?)  to show there are difference between mare dust and what they call orbs..since we are just thinking with out left brain..what is your arguement in this case?

It's conclusive, because they are indentical in everyway.

To the eye there identical.
They can be reproduced to exact standards which do not differ to what people think are "spirits".

Embossing, will differ depending on the quality of the photo, whats in the photo. and the lighting in the photo.

It does'nt have anything to do with the orbs being different.

Beyond this, ask yourself, why would a camera only take a picture of a little whiteball?

Why not show a full spirit?

The human eye is far better then a camera when it comes to quality and recognition, so why would'nt our eye see orbs?

You can get the same kind of distortion with your own eye, when your stare at a street lamp, it expands beyond it's real size when looked at with 1 eye, or sometimes even with 2.

So then you're saying that the orbs that people see physically are only dust too?  ROFLMAO  Give me a break.  There are people that can hold them in their hands.  They're dust too?

wrote on Nov 1^st, 2005 at 6:45pm:

So then you're saying that the orbs that people see physically are only dust too?  ROFLMAO  Give me a break.  There are people that can hold them in their hands.  They're dust too?

ROFLMAO, hold them in there hands, thats a good that one.

Theres billions of dust particals in a room odds are you can get an "orb" anywhere you want.

You really need to sit back and smell the coco, marilyn, not everything is spiritual.

Orbs are water/dust not 1 orb picture/video lookings like anything else, but that.

Quote:

You really need to sit back and smell the coco, marilyn, not everything is spiritual.

Must disagree. Everything is spiritual. Perhaps someday you will wake up to that fact.

wrote on Nov 8^th, 2005 at 1:33pm:

Must disagree. Everything is spiritual. Perhaps someday you will wake up to that fact.

No evidence = no fact. Theres no good evidence we survive physical death, no one who claims they can visit the "afterlife" can offer any sort of proof. If they could do this, 1 of you would have offered to find my grandmother who recently departed, either your bedrock of "PUL" is a lie, or the claims you have are as i suspect, pure fantasy.

wrote on Nov 8^th, 2005 at 7:33am:

since you seem so sure about embossing and no other participant here claimed against you i would accept the embossing as not proof for orbs for now. thank you for that. if your above question is for me, (i was thinking if that was a tricky question,too but then have chosen to trust you:) )i would personally say i wouldnt expect the spirit to seem to human eye as they really are. there several reasons  for that. first we dont know what spirits are...we dont know their scientific environment( ehatever that means..:)) we dont know what their physical apperance could be..or if they could get physcal? ya? maybe they are just orbs? and nothing else?  just a thought we dont know whats what ..right? but since we are here and talking about "spirits" i also believe we all are giving considerable chances to the fact that they may exist...right? or we would be in another board discussing euro exchange rates..am i wrong? dont you also think they, i mean, spirits may exist? second, even if they would wish to seem to our human eyes as they really are, i cant tell if my eye would be capable of seeing them as they are..or my ear would be capable of hearing them as they are..hey maybe a microscobe would work to make my eye to see them as they are? in that way i could see the germs? thats not visible to my eye?  or a radio would make me hear them? as it could transmit the waves in the air as sound? ok my point is without trying or without listenning to people with open mind i cant know the answers. i cant even get close to answers.if the answers about spirits is not my point of interest then what am i doing here exactly visible to every human eye seeing my posts as i am?

Im a graphic designer, and i have embossed many photo's, and i can tell you, "orbs" and "dust particles" are exactly the same.

I used to think spirits existed. But i have never had any form of contact with the spirit world, i used to believe people on forums like this, and how they visit the "afterlife", but ive come to the conclusion that most of them live in a fantasy land, they concreted this belief in me, after not one of these "PUL" puppy's offered to check to see if my recently passed grandmother was ok.

Unfortunatly, they cannot prove anything. They used the same excuse as religons have for centurys. "You must have faith for it to work". "You must do it yourself". I explained that mankind existed today because of co-operation and the sharing on knowledge, yet still they drone on.

Were as skeptics can be turned by good evidence. Die hard faith fanatics wont be, for once they are drawn in, they cannot except any other reality becuase it scares them.

I would love the security these people have, but i need proof. i cant believe somthing just because someone else says it's possible. But then again if i did'nt demand proof, i would'nt be any better then a nazi.

Another reason why i would'nt believe people who claim to have "obe's" is because they cannot live by there principles. 'PUL' for all, as they say. They cant show any PUL becuase they belive they are naturally superior to everyone else, because not everyone can have "fantasy out of body experiences".

My point about the camera was, The human eye is a far more affective means of vision. It will out perform any modern day camera, so if a camera could catch a spirit, your eye would catch it first.

Spitfire,
You said,
"'PUL' for all, as they say. They cant show any PUL becuase they belive they are naturally superior to everyone else, because not everyone can have "fantasy out of body experiences"."

Why do you think people who have had OBEs think they are superior to you? Why does that matter to you? If anything, the people on this board have encouraged you to participate in attempting to learn about and understand the same things they are exploring.

I don't think I'm superior to you or anyone else here.  If anything I think I might be the stupidest person here. But who cares?

If I tried to contact your grandmother what would it prove to you? If anything we would just prove to each other that we can connect on some level in which I could give you information about her.  Would that prove an afterlife to you? Probably not. It seems to be in the heart that our questions originate and in the heart that they are answered, from my experience....

love, blink

wrote on Nov 17^th, 2005 at 4:47pm:

Spitfire, You said, "'PUL' for all, as they say. They cant show any PUL becuase they belive they are naturally superior to everyone else, because not everyone can have "fantasy out of body experiences"." Why do you think people who have had OBEs think they are superior to you? Why does that matter to you? If anything, the people on this board have encouraged you to participate in attempting to learn about and understand the same things they are exploring. I don't think I'm superior to you or anyone else here.  If anything I think I might be the stupidest person here. But who cares? If I tried to contact your grandmother what would it prove to you? If anything we would just prove to each other that we can connect on some level in which I could give you information about her.  Would that prove an afterlife to you? Probably not. It seems to be in the heart that our questions originate and in the heart that they are answered, from my experience.... love, blink

My comment was not really aimed at you blink, because you do tend to live by your principals unlike alot on this board, which i do respect you for.

Since the dawn of time Faith/religon has been used as a source of power. Those higher in the church are ment to be respected because they have a greater knowledge of lifes purpose/will of god etc. i dont believe anyone on this board, is superior to myself, nor do i believe i am superior. I just get the attitude from people that this is what they believe. simply because they are 100% stuck in there beliefs and yet they cant explain anything about why they do believe what they do, and if they truely considered everyone equal, they would listen to reason, which clearly they dont.


If you contacted my grandmother. Lets just say that 1 act would change my entire life. Forever.

If i got 1 peice of exact info which i could equate to her, i would produce enough "PUL" to light a city.

If i could give someone that kind of life changing infomation, then i would do it, because i would consider it the right thing to do. I cannot see why anyone would keep that info to themselves, theres only 1 reason they would.

Because what the claim they can do, they can't.

No doubt, someone will unleash the "You must learn to do it yourself" speech.

We all have things we are good/bad at. If i was better at running then someone else, and running somewhere would change the other guys life forever, i would glady run it.

If people can have obe's to the afterlife. Then they should go there for me, check on my grandma, and change my life forever at the same time. If people who have obe's truely believe in "PUL" they would do this without hesitation.

But it seems most are just filled with false faces, and there beliefs are merely hopes of what they would like to be.

Well, Spitfire, you don't have a false face and I appreciate that about you.  

Some people here may have been asked to do that kind of contact before and have found that the results just weren't conclusive enough even if they were good. There are mediums who would be glad to provide that service to you but you would need to seek them out with care. Also, I don't think you give yourself enough credit. I think your grandma just may be waiting for the right opportunity to show you she's there.  I have received a message once from mine, but I thought for a long time she was gone forever.  It took years for me to get a clear message from her, and when I did I really felt it in a very personal way. But you know, when I thought back on it I remembered that her mother's picture had fallen down the stairs right before I received the call that she died many states away from me.  The cats had jumped and I hadn't thought anything of it, but there was no reason for that to happen.  I am sure the door will open for you if you keep an open mind and keep her in your thoughts with love.

I think most people here are just explorers trudging along right beside you trying to figure this whole thing out. It's actually fun to argue a little on the way sometimes...keeps our wits about us, doesn't it?

love, blink

wrote on Nov 17^th, 2005 at 6:29pm:

Well, Spitfire, you don't have a false face and I appreciate that about you.   Some people here may have been asked to do that kind of contact before and have found that the results just weren't conclusive enough even if they were good. There are mediums who would be glad to provide that service to you but you would need to seek them out with care. Also, I don't think you give yourself enough credit. I think your grandma just may be waiting for the right opportunity to show you she's there.  I have received a message once from mine, but I thought for a long time she was gone forever.  It took years for me to get a clear message from her, and when I did I really felt it in a very personal way. But you know, when I thought back on it I remembered that her mother's picture had fallen down the stairs right before I received the call that she died many states away from me.  The cats had jumped and I hadn't thought anything of it, but there was no reason for that to happen.  I am sure the door will open for you if you keep an open mind and keep her in your thoughts with love. I think most people here are just explorers trudging along right beside you trying to figure this whole thing out. It's actually fun to argue a little on the way sometimes...keeps our wits about us, doesn't it? love, blink

Greetings,
               I dont think 99.9% of mediums are real. I have visited them before, and they just make things up based on your appearance alot of the time.

I would'nt really call a movement of a picture, a good peice of evidence for me. I was thing of somthing only she would know etc, that would clinch it for me.

From the claims people make here, i would have thought it would have been easy for a few people on this forum to find one person. Since people claim they were flying around retriving tsunami victims etc, with elephant like arms.

But since not 1 is willing to put there claims to the test it leads me to think, people dont really have OBE'S but merely vivid dreams.

wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2005 at 2:33am:

hi...i am back..i have a small photo problem..anyway..you also say that nobody offered to contact your grandma. listen..dont get me wrong but even if a was pro at contacting dead people, i would hesitate to contact your grandma. there are two reasons for that: first you seem as if you wont already listen what i would say without prejudice..second, and most important of all if  anything goes wrong i would probably lose you in this matter. i mean i may cause you take a decision away from what truth is (assuming that: i am a pro at contacting the dead and i know the truth is what you find hard to believe) beucase even the pros (in other issues as well) can fail sometimes..and i wouldnt not want my failure to scare somebody away. i hate to say people what they may need but a little flexibility in your way of thinking could do great things..beucase as you know..the truth is the truth and you wont be able to change it either way. i mean the truth is indifferent to you...(and it is not something that it doeas only to you..it is indefferent to eveybody..:) ) it will still be as it is even if you see it or fail to see it.. but where you stand is gonna affect your own perception of truth and more important than that it is going to affect your own life.

If i can run, say 50 metres, would i have the right to talk about how easy it was to run a marathon?.

People here claim to be marathon runners in terms of OBE ability's, they have visited dead people, "retrive" peoples souls, and they can visit other people from across the world.

i am open to anything. Anything based on evidence, im not gonna feel cold and say my grandma is standing next to me, because it's winter ^+.

If people are not 100% certain about there OBE ability's, then how can they be 100% it's real?.

Just like me saying im great at running marathons, yet i have never completed 1. If i have completed 1 i could do it again, if it ment alot to another person.

But as i said, since no one even tried, (except blink, and she's getting some not bad evidence  ;D thank you madam) then i have 3 conclusions.

1.They cant do it.

2.There 'PUL' principals are just a face, and what they spout out, is not what they truely believe.

3.There selfish, which takes us back to point 2, about there principles only working, when they can be bothered to make them work.

Im working with blink, to eliminate point 1. So therefore it meens there might "PUL" is aload of cods wallop. The sooner they relalise there actions dont do justice to there belief, i hope they slap themselves.

Spitfire,

I can see, as Damla says, the us vs. them feelings that you have.  I hesitated to launch into this situation for you but I realized that you are truly asking for demonstrable evidence of love here.

For you, actions speak louder than words. Love means different things to each one of us. Some people need to hear words of love. Some people need arms around them to feel love. Some people need someone to step up and show them....yes, you are real to me and you are worth it.

Even if the contact failed, it is the act of trying that is what matters to you. When I finally realized this, although you had been telling us this all along, I knew that it was okay to try for you, and if I did indeed fail, it was the attempt that was the important action in this particular situation....for you.

love, blink

wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2005 at 9:00am:

Spitfire, I can see, as Damla says, the us vs. them feelings that you have.  I hesitated to launch into this situation for you but I realized that you are truly asking for demonstrable evidence of love here. For you, actions speak louder than words. Love means different things to each one of us. Some people need to hear words of love. Some people need arms around them to feel love. Some people need someone to step up and show them....yes, you are real to me and you are worth it. Even if the contact failed, it is the act of trying that is what matters to you. When I finally realized this, although you had been telling us this all along, I knew that it was okay to try for you, and if I did indeed fail, it was the attempt that was the important action in this particular situation....for you. love, blink

You are right blink, i believe actions speak louder then words. I thought this belief was universal, you see people starving on TV, but if you really cared, you would donate money each month to help change there situation.



wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2005 at 5:44am:

you sound logical.. to yourself..there is a bit danger in this.becuse you keep repeating the same things that sounds logical to you..avoiding the outer participant. i doubt that you are aware of that. But you are talking abstract..(not less then "them" that you condemn) what do you mean by "they" for example? Dont you see that "they" is your perception of "somethings" not even "people"? thats the way "you" perceive things... and insist to perceive..you may be right..and again you may be wrong. but this is not the point. it shouldnt be the point because there is another more important issiue. I have tried to explain why I would hesitate to help you about your contact with your granma if I were a pro medium or a pro OBE practioner..that was "my" reason..those reasons may vary from one person to another? right? (believe me if i were a pro and if it was possible i wouldnt do it..i wouldnt contact your grandma or if i did i wouldnt tell it to you) the fact is how you percieve your situation, may be something totally different from what the actual truth is...if our perceptions is aimed to clear themselves..if this becomes our primary aim -before if PUL or OBE is true or not- our conclusions would really be something.   i suppose.

Logic should apply to all.  2+2 = 4.

No food = you starve

No Air = you choke

No evidence = Your Wrong.

You see, i understand other peoples view points, i merely point out there hypocrits for not sticking by there beliefs.

When i say "They" i meen everyone who's beliefs are not backed up with actions.

I could give you evidence why actions are greater then words. If you want me to do so, i will. But i dont think you truely believe words are greater then actions.

If you "could" contact my grandmother and you did'nt or you did'nt give me infomation from her, then i would accept that, but i would fall back to my "own" beliefs. Which say if i saw you falling off a cliff, i would let you drop. Nor would i believe that your claims that "you" could contact the afterlife where true.

Though we all have our "own" Perceptions. they are based on the way we were raised, and what our instincts tell us.

As a general rule hitler is considered bad, why? he was only "following" his own beliefs?.It's because the majority of the human population considered it wrong.

The way your point is starting to go, Is down the way of human existance.

Based on the majority of peoples views.

If you have the ability to help someone with no cost to yourself, you should do it. Unless you dont like that person. Which brings us back to peoples beliefs.

As i said in a previous post, alot of people on this board are OTT about "PUL".

PUL in words is not as good as PUL in actions.

Saying you can do somthing, and actually doing it, are 2 different things.

If you dont agree with those points, thats ok, but the majorty of the population, agree with me. So either you are mentally handy capped. Or you think your jesus.

Now i could analyse everyone word i have used and go deep into the meaning of it etc.

But in simple terms

"Average human beings, core beliefs say, actions are better then words"

"Average human beings, believe in helping others, if it costs little to themselves"


"PUL" love puppys on this board, want world peace etc. Yet they cant even give basic "human" curtosy's. Which is why there "beliefs" are worthless. to me and the majority of humaity.

But, you know, Spitfire,

it is your beliefs that really matter in the long run.  They are what will shape your world.  You are part of this world and you matter....and so do they. It is not you against them....we are all in this together, and we always will be.

so long for now, blink

wrote on Nov 24^th, 2005 at 1:22am:

but we are not talking about 2+2=4. Do we? we are talking about unknown..unknown things to you and to me..before the explanation of unknown what people need is imagination, care, dare and a flexible mind.

We are talking about logic. Imagination is useless without logic. You can dream about flying all you want but without the knowledge of aero dynamics you aint going no where.


wrote on Nov 24^th, 2005 at 1:22am:

thats why i tried to explain that your point of  their "not backing up the beliefs with actions" might be something different from "their" actual situation, their actual face, their actual intention.

As i said, if they believe in "PUL" yet fail to act on it, then they are merely fools, i could claim to be a vegitarian on the surface, and eat a nice steak everynight.


wrote on Nov 24^th, 2005 at 1:22am:

i have no objection to that..as you see this is not a win or lose situation,  between you and me or between you and "them". it is about undertanding the possible ways of how the truth is achievable. so, if your intention is to understand the PUL or OBE or the truth your actions should back up that, too.

My actions do backup my beliefs. it's there actions which make me question there beliefs.



wrote on Nov 24^th, 2005 at 1:22am:

this is your idea. i have explained my reasons why i would hesitate to contact your granma somewhere above.

Yes...Because "Your scared of failure" as i have already said, people claim to be able to have OBE'S etc, can visit people from across the world, retrieve dead souls, and fly about. Finding 1 person should be easy for them. We all place bets on life everyday, if theres much to gain and little to lose you should go for it. As i stated earlier, if someone was going to be run over by a car, and i could stop it without getting killed myself, i would. Becuase in this reality it's the "Human" thing to do.



wrote on Nov 24^th, 2005 at 1:22am:

ok. go ahead. accept this as the truth..believe it since you have proved it(?) so?? what is this gonna change about you? or your understanding of PUL or OBE if they ever exist?

yes i have "proved" it. this changes the way i look at people who claim to have OBE'S. If there beliefs of "PUL" were so good. They would help me without hesitation. As i have said, if they truely believe in "PUL" that meens there so called "OBE'S" are actually fairy tales because the 2 intentions clash.


wrote on Nov 24^th, 2005 at 1:22am:

if you had all the people with you, including me..there still is possbility that you'd have no clue about the truth.. yet there may still be one single person knowing the exact truth and everything the living would wanna know about, but he may still not be explaining it to anybody because of the "reasons" that you or i wont care /bother to see or understand. thank you and good bye.

As i said, the only "truth" i know, is defined by human reality. And while i am human, i expect other people to act as human.

i could go off with the fairy's and say...i understand more then you etc.

But human existence is based on co-operation. The sharing of knowledge. When people dont do that when they claim there "PUL" puppy's.

Then they have no right to back up there arguments with it.

wrote on Nov 24^th, 2005 at 6:19am:

puff..i really cant believe what you are attempting. this is not a win or lose situation.

Win, Lose? your ego showing there? im simply stating a "fact" Nothing more, nothing less.





wrote on Nov 24^th, 2005 at 6:19am:

you are here now. right? following this board? right?  Why are you doing this? (dont answer me because if you answer me, you d give your answer thinking there is "me" here also. forget about me "them" PUL or anything..just frankly answer to yourself what are you doing here?

I come here, looking for people who claim to have ability's, to access an area i am intrested in. I come here seeking things, which can be "explained" rationally, through deductive or inductive reasoning.


wrote on Nov 24^th, 2005 at 6:19am:

without the dream of flying, without the will of someone trying to see if this could be,  the knowledge of aerodynamics would not be possible.

Without Man observing nature. We would have no idea that flying was possible. Patterns are what make our brain tick. THey create the idea's behind the cause.




wrote on Nov 24^th, 2005 at 6:19am:

what individuals do doesnt change the fact there are true vegitarians. though you can observe other vegiterians every night peeking in their houses, you cant detect the hearts or the reasons of people ..at least by the means you attempt now.

There not vegitarians if they eat meat everynight. It does'nt matter whats in there minds. it does not change the fact, they broke there principles, and are chomping down on a steak. Thats why we have "Free Will".


wrote on Nov 24^th, 2005 at 6:19am:

i dont know what the other people do and why they do it.  you do. so you're lucky.far better off then me.. you can better decide what to do now. good. great. am i happy for you? no i am not..it feels wrong to me the way you think, the way you proceed. so what? do you think the truth or fact would change according to what i think or what you think?

The way you think to me, is close to what someone would say if they were taking drugs etc.
Does it matter to me that you could be taking drugs? yes it does. Because i keep having to reply to common sense questions.


wrote on Nov 24^th, 2005 at 6:19am:

you cant understand the gain or loss of other people with your own measures.they are your own personal criterias.

I use what i have been taught + The core "HUMAN" principles which guide us, to reach that conclusion. Now i could start with exotic ways of thinking. But it would'nt be human. Since human is all we have for certain. THen you must stick to these boundaries for us to have a common field of reasoning.


wrote on Nov 24^th, 2005 at 6:19am:

what is that suppose to mean now? who doesnt share the knowledge with you? knowledge is everywhere..everywhere. under that keyboard. even if i am not interested in OBE even i have seen tons of materials out on web! but the question is would you give them the credit and read them? try them? although you have proved OBE is not true? come on.. give yourself a break. and on the other hand you know PUL is a matter of heart. it is nothing like 2+2= 4. i would really really think twice to say what "other" people is standing according to PUL. because as far as i know i have been a vegiterian eating steaks everynight.

do you understand anything i say?

a vegitarian who eats a steak everynight is NOT a vegitarian. They merely lie to others, and themselves.

Heart? the heart has nothing to do with PUL. it's merely a pump. Nothing more.

You either speak the same language as me, aka "Human" English. Based on logic and fact or dont bother.

I suppose this is too late to seem important after the exchange on personal level, but I'll post it anyway, in case anyone cares what I have to say about orbs!

I believe orbs can be spirits, but the majority, probably 98% are particles.  The easiest way to tell a dust particle is by the nucleus.  The nucleus is the solid part of the particle, and the halo is the reflection of light on the out-of-focus lens.  The particles causing orbs are usually a foot or two in front of the lens and as a result are out of focus.  Dust particle orbs are usually very round, but the nucleus could be a bit off center.  Digital cameras cause more false orbs than conventional cameras.

I've made many orbs to demonstrate they are not usually real.  I've used fine sawdust very effectively, dropped a moment before triggering the flash and shutter.  Use a flash, of course.  I think in old buildings, sawdust is often what creates the orb anyway, and it only takes one small little bit, like the size of the very tip of a pen or smaller.  Snow and light rain makes great orbs, but then it becomes obvious because of the pattern.  I distrust most orb pictures taken outside, there are just too many dynamics to blast something by the camera  at the wrong (or right) time.

The orbs I suspect could be something spirit-like are irregularly shaped, move against gravity and wind, or center on people in a strange way and otherwise don't act like a passive dust particle.  Unfortunately these photos/films are few, but I'm still open to the idea of seeing them.  I don't trust the human eye as much as spitfire, and I've got 20/15 vision, but agree in general we have a much better resolution when the light is good than a really good camera.  An example of how poor our eyes can be is when trying to keep track of an animal or insect that doesn't want to be seen.  Even a human can hide in plain sight with a bit of the right camo.  

Human eyes have the unfortunate handicap of being attached to an interpretting center that constantly processes the info.  Remember what you learned in grade school..... we actually see upside down, and our brain flips it over for us.  So, in effect, our brain is by default in denial of what we really see!

wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2005 at 11:08am:

You are right blink, i believe actions speak louder then words. I thought this belief was universal, you see people starving on TV, but if you really cared, you would donate money each month to help change there situation. Yes, actions speak louder than words, but you know what speaks loudest of all? What comes from inside of you. Qualities such as kindness, tolerance, PUL etc. Only those who are truely genuine will positively shine these qualities from within. You could donate until the cows come home, you could travel to Africa and help those who are starving but that doesn't define you as who you are. It's what comes from within that truely defines a person for who they really are. And, um, just one thing I'd like to remind everyone of, charity begins at home. :) Logic should apply to all.  2+2 = 4. No food = you starve No Air = you choke No evidence = Your Wrong. Okay, consider this, it works both ways. if we claim something that you think isn't backed up by hard/strong evidence, then we're wrong. But every time you claim something, and you can't back it up with the kind of evidence that you demand, then by your own logic, you're wrong too. You see, i understand other peoples view points, i merely point out there hypocrits for not sticking by there beliefs. When i say "They" i meen everyone who's beliefs are not backed up with actions. I could give you evidence why actions are greater then words. If you want me to do so, i will. Then why don't you? Instead of saying that you will if we want you to, you should provide us with your "evidence". Otherwise you're just playing games. But i dont think you truely believe words are greater then actions. If you "could" contact my grandmother and you did'nt or you did'nt give me infomation from her, then i would accept that, but i would fall back to my "own" beliefs. That's fine. It's pretty  much human nature to do that. Which say if i saw you falling off a cliff, i would let you drop.That is not the same thing at all. It's not even close. Keep things in context. What you are using as an example is a life-threatening situation. Just because no one here, except for one (or two, or whatever) would contact your grandmother for you, it doesn't make it a life-threatening situation. So your comparision is not a fair one.   Nor would i believe that your claims that "you" could contact the afterlife where true. Well, put it this way, I don't care if you believe me or not when I say I have been in contact with spirits etc. If you came to me and said to me that you saw a spirit, I wouldn't believe you, and I wouldn't disbelieve you. I also wouldn't say something along the lines of "you have no evidence, so imo it's not true". It's not my place to do any of that. Just because I had an experience that you have not yet had, or seen evidence of, that doesn't make me a liar. Same goes for you. Same applies to everyone else out there. Though we all have our "own" Perceptions. they are based on the way we were raised, and what our instincts tell us. Not necessarily. I wasn't raised to be able to detect spirit activity around me. I wasn't raised to percieve spirit communicatoion. yet, I can do these things. But that's not for you to believe or disbelieve, or for you to tell me I have to prove it for any reason whatsoever. :) As a general rule hitler is considered bad, why? he was only "following" his own beliefs?. That's debatable but not for this thread, as it would just make the whole thread go off-topic.It's because the majority of the human population considered it wrong. The way your point is starting to go, Is down the way of human existance. Based on the majority of peoples views. So you speak for the majority of people and their views? If you have the ability to help someone with no cost to yourself, you should do it. Unless you dont like that person. Which brings us back to peoples beliefs. I say this instead: Quote: If you have the ability to help someone yourself with no cost to yourself, you should do it. Unless Even if you dont like that person yourself. As i said in a previous post, alot of people on this board are OTT about "PUL". PUL in words is not as good as PUL in actions. Agreed. Saying you can do somthing, and actually doing it, are 2 different things. Agreed. If you dont agree with those points, thats ok, but the majorty of the population, agree with me. Oh really? So you've asked every single human being on this planet? No? I didn't think so. Therefore that's just an assumption, and assumptions are worth very little.So either you are mentally handy capped. Or you think your jesus. Wow! Another assumption! Now i could analyse everyone word i have used and go deep into the meaning of it etc. But in simple terms "Average human beings, core beliefs say, actions are better then words" "Average human beings, believe in helping others, if it costs little to themselves" "PUL" love puppys on this board, want world peace etc. Yet they cant even give basic "human" curtosy's. Which is why there "beliefs" are worthless. to me and the majority of humaity. Worthless to you maybe but please do not try and speak for the majority of humanity.

Okay that's my twopenny's worth for today! :)

wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2005 at 9:38am:

Human eyes have the unfortunate handicap of being attached to an interpretting center that constantly processes the info.  Remember what you learned in grade school..... we actually see upside down, and our brain flips it over for us.  So, in effect, our brain is by default in denial of what we really see!

I don't know a great deal about cameras and how they work, along with dust particles etc, apart from the basics, as taught at school. But I do know that spirit has the ability to appear in any form it wishes. I've witnessed this myself (again, this isn't for anyone to come and tell me that they believe/disbelieve what I say, blah blah). It also depends on how the brain interprets too (see quote). But consider this too. It's also very possible for a human to see something, and totally deny that it's there. Therefore the human brain, in tandem with organs such as the eye, is not 100% trustworthy and reliable when it comes to the unknown.

I'm basically agreeing with the last paragraph in the quote here. :D

What I'm saying isn't based on my beliefs but on personal experience. I've seen photos with dust particle orbs and this kind of phemomena (sp?) is common, but I also happen to know that real spirits can appear in various forms, including orb form, and can be captured on film.

Yes, actions speak louder than words, but you know what speaks loudest of all? What comes from inside of you. Qualities such as kindness, tolerance, PUL etc. Only those who are truely genuine will positively shine these qualities from within. You could donate until the cows come home, you could travel to Africa and help those who are starving but that doesn't define you as who you are. It's what comes from within that truely defines a person for who they really are. And, um, just one thing I'd like to remind everyone of, charity begins at home.

Actions are always better then words.

If everyone thought, aslong as they believe people should'nt starve, they wont. Everyone who was starving would'nt be dead. Because if good thoughts dont equal good actions, then they are pointless.

You may wish to murder someone, what seperates you and the guy doing life imprisonment is actions, your ability to control yourself.

Actions do define who you are, why do you think hero's are people who put themselves at risk to follow there beliefs?

I could think, my thoughts say, letting people starve is wrong, but your thoughts are obviously worthless, if you dont do anything about it. The more you believe somthing the more effort you put into it.

powerful thought = powerful action.
Weak thought = worthless.

Okay, consider this, it works both ways. if we claim something that you think isn't backed up by hard/strong evidence, then we're wrong. But every time you claim something, and you can't back it up with the kind of evidence that you demand, then by your own logic, you're wrong too.

Yup, thats correct. I hold myself to the same standards as everyone else. If my evidence cannot be proved, then i would be wrong. The only difference between me and others is what we class as good evidence.

Then why don't you? Instead of saying that you will if we want you to, you should provide us with your "evidence". Otherwise you're just playing games.

People who say thoughts are better then actions, are crazy. Plain and simple. I would consider murdering them, but then again it does'nt meen i would comit the act.

I'll use the africa scenario again.

You see a charity appeal on TV, people are starving in africa, you sit there and you think to yourself, "i wish i could do something".."it upsets me"....yet if your not willing to give 2 pounds a month, then you are, whats known as a hypocrit, someone whos not willing to stick by there beliefs with actions.

Actions would feed people in africa, you spend an extra 20 minutes at work, 4 people eat for a month. You spend 2 minutes thinking how bad there situation is, 4 people are dead from starvation, but it does'nt matter because you thought good things?

A Mugger on the street.

You see a guy being mugged on the street, you think "poor sod" and walk on. You find out in the news the next day, the guy died from his injurys.

You see a guy being mugged on the street, you think "poor" sod, you call the police and attack the muggers, you have saved a persons life, you have saved his family from years of trauma, and "bad thoughts", and all it costs you was a black eye, and a bit of pain.

That is not the same thing at all. It's not even close. Keep things in context. What you are using as an example is a life-threatening situation. Just because no one here, except for one (or two, or whatever) would contact your grandmother for you, it doesn't make it a life-threatening situation. So your comparision is not a fair one.

If You hold life changing infomation back because your selfish, your skum to me. and your life means nothing to me, therefore i would not save it.

Well, put it this way, I don't care if you believe me or not when I say I have been in contact with spirits etc. If you came to me and said to me that you saw a spirit, I wouldn't believe you, and I wouldn't disbelieve you. I also wouldn't say something along the lines of "you have no evidence, so imo it's not true". It's not my place to do any of that. Just because I had an experience that you have not yet had, or seen evidence of, that doesn't make me a liar. Same goes for you. Same applies to everyone else out there.

If you dont believe me, and dont disbelieve me, then how can you have a meaningful conversation? Solid evidence is based upon reproducable facts. The sun rises each day, It has for the past so many billion years, it's 99.9% positive it will tommorow. If everyone had obe's, and they were proved to be contacting the atferlife and not just dreaming, then it would be more accepted.

Ive heard people claiming the earth will die in the year 1999. Did it? no. was it real to them? it sure was. But im right. Because the earths still here. if someone claims they have been contacted by the deceased just because they felt cold and a light bulb popped, does'nt mean that it was down to paranormal activity. Because it was the middle of winter, and the power plant had a surge.

If you want people to believe you, you need proof, otherwise your just another smuck on drugs.

If you dont care what other people believe, why post your experiences, here on anywhere else?, because you want people to back up what your saying. To prove theres somthing to this, and to prove it to yourself.

Not necessarily. I wasn't raised to be able to detect spirit activity around me. I wasn't raised to percieve spirit communicatoion. yet, I can do these things. But that's not for you to believe or disbelieve, or for you to tell me I have to prove it for any reason whatsoever.

I proved to you why actions are better then words/thoughts, yet your not willing to prove to me, you can talk to the spirit world.

You see that, leads me to believe, you dont really talk with the spirit world, because your claims are so weak, you cannot back them up.

Often, people who "detect" spirits etc, usually have no talents, so they need to invent there own. Thats why most psychics are old woman, who like there 3 box's of chocolates a day. They need someone to tell them there special, and if they can contact the dead for people, they are guarenteed a nice bit of praise.

That's debatable but not for this thread, as it would just make the whole thread go off-topic.

I would like to see you try.

So you speak for the majority of people and their views?

Polls, laws, general values, yea i speak for the majority, because i did my homework.

I say this instead: If you have the ability to help yourself with no cost to yourself, you should do it. Unless dont like yourself.

I have no idea, why you said this.

Oh really? So you've asked every single human being on this planet? No? I didn't think so. Therefore that's just an assumption, and
assumptions are worth very little

Did i even say every human?.. no, so dont mince my words, i said the majority. Look at our books, video's, even religous scriptures, look at polls, surveys. Then tell me i am wrong, until then dont argue with things, that every 5 year old would call common sense.

Worthless to you maybe but please do not try and speak for the majority of humanity.

Read my last point.