Regressionists state that incarnations start at the lava level, then advance through higher forms, to finally the human.  The disk system, where it is a composite of entities that have gone before suggests that the disk takes sections from it's various parts creating a new spirit from those.  This is then sent to experience the human body.

This new unit, if it went to a regression hypnotist, would seem to be limited to remembering just the one life, back to it's creation at it's disk.  Or, would it be able to remember the pooled experiences of the whole disk?

Mr Satan

According to one of Delores Cannon's books that I've read, we can tune into any life ever lived by anyone because we're all part of the Consciousness of One.  This is why so many say they were so and so in a past life (saying the same person). So my question is, how do we know which past lives are ours and which are others, or does it really all matter? ;-)

Love, Mairlyn ;-)

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how do we know which past lives are ours and which are others, or does it really all matter?

In school, i was able to view my progress through each grade, and subsequent grades.  Sometimes i had friends that i kept for a few yrs, through a few grades.  I like that idea.  It's kind of like knowing where you have been through memories of your experiences.  So, yes it does matter to me, and i suspect to many others who consider reincarnation.

Mr Satan

We all view our progress between each life. I feel that's when it matters. ;-)

Peace, Mairlyn ;-)

Mairlyn:
In books by T. Lobsong Rampa, he mentioned oversouls. For instance you and I may have the same oversoul along with 5 or 6 other people. Therefore, it seems to me we could all tune in to each other's lifetimes and get confused who is who over time!

I really don't know the answer but it's interesting.

LightSeeker

Quote:

does it really all matter?

I would never push someone else to look at something that she didn't care to see.  For me though, it goes along w the meditations that i do.  I'm sort of an explorer.  I like to get an idea how things work, the lay of the land and stuff like that.  For me, it's very interesting.

S

i think the oversoul model appears compelling.

Something Elias would refer to as an "Essence".

I am not too sure and am only guessing but regressionists would start out from a linear perspective and hence be prejudiced from the outset as to formulating a conceptual/coherent model of lives.

it is all valid work which they do but they do start from the premise of going back from this life to the last or skip a few and go back 8 lives.  its still a linear perspective.


some hypnotherapists may just start off by taking (or widening) your awareness to gain an appreciation of the "all that you are" and not just taking you back and fourth to other personality/lives you have lived.

From the oversoul perspective, you then could choose to focus on a particular life.  

So from that perspective, you are more than all of those lives (eg more than a thousand or so ) and also have the ability to focus in on a specific life.

I have also read Elias talking about you having "observing" focuses as well as direct experience focuses. ie instances where you experience life second rather than first hand through other people.

As Mairlyn notes, does it really matter which are yours and which are others?  

I think not really :)

THIS is the life that counts.  

Gaining an appreciation of other lives is beneficial in widening your belief systems about what you are capable of and the "all that you are" rather than being over-attached to certain elements of THIS life.


Scott

Scott,

This is what E said about "oversoul"

"LUANA: Thank you. Who is the oversoul of my essence, its tone or name, so I can be in direct contact with it in my sleep state or altered states, and how can I recognize it?

ELIAS: Recognize that this is a story; therefore it is not literal. It is offered as an example. It is also offered in conjunction with a particular time framework, a particular movement of energy within your physical dimension, to be assimilating information in a new manner in association with this shift in consciousness, and also in conjunction with some expressed mass beliefs as to offer an introduction to certain concepts without generating an overwhelmingness.

Throughout your history in this physical dimension, you have generated an association in conjunction with beliefs and in conjunction with the belief of separation, in which you create a philosophy that expresses an identification of a higher power — call it what you will, a guide, a god, angels, masters, oversouls. In actuality, as I have stated previously, there is no differentiation between essences. In actuality, essence is merely a designation of personality energy. But there is no separation of essence as consciousness, and there is no separation between essences.

I offer information and generate a distinction in relation to what is known to you within this physical reality that you may generate a clearer understanding of yourselves and of your reality and of consciousness within the design of your physical reality and what is known to you. Therefore, it is a translation.

In this, the concept of an oversoul is figurative; it is not literal. It is expressed to offer a concept to allow individuals to move or to transition more easily into the recognition of self as essence. Therefore, in response to your question "who is your oversoul?" — you.

Observing essence are a little bit different matter...


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I am not too sure and am only guessing but regressionists would start out from a linear perspective and hence be prejudiced from the outset as to formulating a conceptual/coherent model of lives.

Based on my own experiences, and interaction with many Seth/Elias reader,who (including myself) connecting with many of their  focuses, with very accurate informations,  going to regressionist, just as unnecessary as going OOBE or use any kind of a complicated method to do retrievals. other then the simple and most effective subjective/objective  excersises what Seth/Elias recommend, many align with  Bruce teaching.i.e. imagination..

Connecting with other focuses/previous personalities, is  directing our attention  to a specific area of consciousness and instead of do a retrieval, with the intent to connecting with our  simultaneous selves...


I think it is excellent visual analog about who is *You*

Elias: I have offered an analogy previously that I shall offer to you that may express a visual, that you may be understanding more of the vastness of yourselves, although this analogy is also quite limited.

In this, I express you to view yourselves as being a room. Your physical self is a room, and within this room there are hundreds of televisions, and each of these televisions holds one channel, one picture, one play, one scenario, and each of them are different, but they are all contained within this one room.

Each of the screens are a focus of you. They are all a creation of you, an aspect of you, and they are all contained within you. You are one of these television screens. You are one focus of attention of essence, just as within your physical body you may focus your attention upon several different areas of your physical form simultaneously. You may be aware of your vision, of your hearing, of your finger tapping, of stimulation of side of your body, of a throbbing toe, all simultaneously. In like manner, your essence is aware and interactive with all of these focuses of attention simultaneously, and viewing all of these television screens at once.

So then, each discrete unit of essence gets one ride around the meat merrygoround, and then goes through the various stages of recovery as it makes it's way back to be reintegrated into it's disk/higher self/oversoul?

Mr Satan

yeah "Mr_Satan"  :o more or less that seems exactly right in my novice opinion.  

we may not be exactly "discrete units" when you consider we are inextricably linked to the "all that we are" but i have even had discussions with Gordon Phinn to the effect that this particular personality only experiences this life but the deeper "you" experiences and is integral to the full range of lives.  

of course we want to separate out and segment which part of "us" that is - most likely because duality is such an inherent belief system for us.  


Scott

Alright, let's say that you only get one spin in an earthbody, then you go back to your disk.  It removes self improvement as an incentive.  

As a possible purpose, it leaves only getting experience and perhaps doing some specific tasks.  Since there may be thousands in your disk, and they have had all kinds of experiences, that need is somewhat reduced, unless certain experiences are desired and then sought out again and again.  Further, if memories of all lives ever lived, human, plant, animal and bug are available to all presently alive, it would make another huge reduction in types of experiences that have not been experienced yet.  This is excluding the new tech ways of doing the same old things, such as for instance writing letters/mail.  

Mr Satan

Btw, i read in one of monroe's books that he visited a place where the spirits, as lights, were lined up waiting to be prepped for incarnation.  They would go through a process where they would forget their previous lives and then shoot toward their new bodies.  In this line he saw one light that was smaller.  He approached it, conversing w it.  The little light said that it had previously been an animal incarnation.  It had done something really exceptional, and so was allowed the privilege of now having a human life.  It felt very honored and nervous at the same time.

This suggests that multiple incarnations is the norm.

MS

Yes, I remember reading this too. I believe it was a dog and this really threw me. I've always wondered about that as I didn't think that animals could incarnate as humans. And yet I've known some dogs who are a lot smarter than many humans and they are here to show us Pure Unconditional Love. ;-)

Love, Mairlyn ;-)

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This new unit, if it went to a regression hypnotist, would seem to be limited to remembering just the one life, back to it's creation at it's disk.  Or, would it be able to remember the pooled experiences of the whole disk?

Hmmm, I think I understand what you mean...

I will try to explain this using elias concepts.....
As essence, consider all focuses and lives as one life of essence. As example, I have 682 focuses, which equal one life as essence in this dimension.
All of these focuses, myself included, exist simultaneously in the now, side by side. A way to illustrate this would be to angle two mirrors and notice how your reflection seems to go on repeatedly and around a bend, like into a circle or disk. They are all connected as one life of essence, but individual points of attention.
As essence, there is rememberence of all these points of attention,
....and visualize your essence as being a room, and in this room there are 682, or so tv's each with a different program on. The room, or essence views all of these tv's simultaneously.
As do you non-physically focused as essence. As essence physically focused we have a camoflauge weve created in perception.
But anyway, I would say, yes, it would be able to remember the pooled experience of the entire disk, or more of a remeberence of vastness of self as essence. But, maybe a regression is not neccesary, because in a sense, I would think its just a matter of making that connection in the present, since it can be said that its simultaneously happening now, as elias mentions.

Something peculiar elias has mentioned as well, is that he as essence, still is focused physically, and at the same time he's not.
And as he states non-physically he has more of a remberence of what he is as essence, and that remberence is being what we are shifting into.

Hi Mr S -

I'm one of those "regression hypnotherapists" types. (On the Visitor page I'm advertising for research volunteers if you're in my area.) Scott's right that we tend to be linear, because memory seems to be a linear progression. However, many people have lifetimes that occur in recent time, then in long past time, then in recent time, then maybe as an animal long ago, and so on. So the "linearity" kinda fades into a concept of sequences, as opposed to linear time and causality.

The second factor that seems to be involved is that when we go "into the spirit world", we actually don't go to a different "place", but simply into a different modality. (This is what I'm interested in researching.) The first aspect is that we are already all over the place. While alive, the locus of your life force is more or less centered inside your skin, but it leaks out into the world every time you do something. In other words, your skin is not the limit of your life force's embodiment. In fact, much of the space in which we exist is also being used by many others. What we call "karma" is actually just the extended actions of our life force as it circulates through the surrounding world.

The second aspect is that when we reincarnate, we don't necessarily bring all our life force into each lifetime. We tend to focus on those things that dominate our intention (defined as in the "Silly Little Finger Moving Exercise") even if that space might be shared by other actors' life forces as well, so that we bring back interaction tendencies as well as a new definition of self. Hence we also being back "karma" in the sense of our life forces still circulating in those places.

I've been doing regressions for over ten years, but I've never specifically asked anyone to look for the maximum breadth of their awareness during a regression. My guess is that they would report that they have total access to everything as a sort of extended embodiment. Most folks report that they have "instant access" to everything in the Cosmos, but they still retain their individually unique viewpoint, and thet they are looking at stuff. This suggests that to ask whether recall is only of one person, or of everybody, or of bits and pieces of some collective spiritual Erector Set from which we build an incarnation, is going to give us a misleading answer. If everything is everything else, then all three cases are correct, but they are non-exclusive. For example, You are Me, but your view of it differs from mine because we have different viewpoints.

I have a quick "multi-dimensional viewing" technique on my web site if you want to pursue this. The site is "mind-body-spirit-hypnoclinic.com" , and is mostly oriented toward people teaching past life techniques, but the technique is given on one of the pages if you look for it long enough. Otherwise, if you're ever in the San Jose or San Luis Obispo area, give me a call and we'll have a look.

dave

Hi Mr S -

I'm one of those "regression hypnotherapists" types. (On the Visitor page I'm advertising for research volunteers if you're in my area.) Scott's right that we tend to be linear, because memory seems to be a linear progression. However, many people have lifetimes that occur in recent time, then in long past time, then in recent time, then maybe as an animal long ago, and so on. So the "linearity" kinda fades into a concept of sequences, as opposed to linear time and causality.

The second factor that seems to be involved is that when we go "into the spirit world", we actually don't go to a different "place", but simply into a different modality. (This is what I'm interested in researching.) The first aspect is that we are already all over the place. While alive, the locus of your life force is more or less centered inside your skin, but it leaks out into the world every time you do something. In other words, your skin is not the limit of your life force's embodiment. In fact, much of the space in which we exist is also being used by many others. What we call "karma" is actually just the extended actions of our life force as it circulates through the surrounding world.

The second aspect is that when we reincarnate, we don't necessarily bring all our life force into each lifetime. We tend to focus on those things that dominate our intention (defined as in the "Silly Little Finger Moving Exercise") even if that space might be shared by other actors' life forces as well, so that we bring back interaction tendencies as well as a new definition of self. Hence we also bring back "karma" in the sense of our life forces still circulating in those places.

I've been doing regressions for over ten years, but I've never specifically asked anyone to look for the maximum breadth of their awareness during a regression. My guess is that they would report that they have total access to everything as a sort of extended embodiment. Most folks report that they have "instant access" to everything in the Cosmos, but they still retain their individually unique viewpoint, and thet they are looking at stuff. This suggests that to ask whether recall is only of one person, or of everybody, or of bits and pieces of some collective spiritual Erector Set from which we build an incarnation, is going to give us a misleading answer. If everything is everything else, then all three cases are correct, but they are non-exclusive. For example, You are Me, but your view of it differs from mine because we have different viewpoints.

I have a quick "multi-dimensional viewing" technique on my web site if you want to pursue this. The site is "mind-body-spirit-hypnoclinic.com" , and is mostly oriented toward people teaching past life techniques, but the technique is given on one of the pages if you look for it long enough. Otherwise, if you're ever in the San Jose or San Luis Obispo area, give me a call and we'll have a look.

dave

Robdetroit

Yes, i can see how the central awareness could in effect be looking through each of us.  Then also the reverse, if we change phase of our focus, we could (theoretically?) move upstream, sort of, and also see through all the connections.

Dave

Thanks for the offer.  A couple of yrs ago, was considering regression hypnotherapy.  The cost is what discouraged me.  If i am ever near there, i will call.  Unfortunately, i live about 2500 miles from there.

Now, another question.  If incarnation is nonlinear, ie going forward and backward in time, then, it seems reasonable that we have also been incarnated in future times.  One would expect that future experiences would turn up in your practice, future experiences roughly equal in number to past experiences.  Yet, as far as i know, this does not happen, or at least very rarely.  This fact weakens the nonlinearity premise.  Is it possible that your patients' accounts give an impression of nonlinearity because of the way thier memories work, rather than their incarnations being nonlinear timewise?

MS

Ps, the two incranation principles do not need to be mutually exclusive, imo.  The connections to the central awareness would continue in the second part.

Hi Robdetroit,

Nice to meet a fellow Elias reader, with understanding...  ;)

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The second factor that seems to be involved is that when we go "into the spirit world", we actually don't go to a different "place", but simply into a different modality. (This is what I'm interested in researching.)

Hi Dave, sounds interesting...
What about as a modality, do you think like altered state? If so, could the method be to supply a direction to imagination while in this state?



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Yes, i can see how the central awareness could in effect be looking through each of us.  Then also the reverse, if we change phase of our focus, we could (theoretically?) move upstream, sort of, and also see through all the connections.

Mr Satan, that is interesting to think about.
Lets incorporate central awareness into the illustration.
We already have the two reflective mirrors at an angle reflecting numerous individual versions of you as essence, and it bends into a circle or disc.
I suppose then we could say its a wheel, and essence would be the central awareness or axle of that wheel.
Now going from this axle, are spokes, that would be the connection of essence projected into an individual focus on the wheel.
So in this sense, all focuses are a projection of essence and are essence.
Now you can move upstream from your focus on the wheel to that central awareness. But when connecting, or attemting to connect with other focus lives, you are also connecting sideways with the other focus on that wheel.
Think of a triangle, one line from the axle along the spoke to your foucus of attention. Another line from the axle along the spoke to the focus of attention you are attemting to connect with, and the third line between you and the focus you are connecting with.
That third line is blocked by perception.
Simultaneous to you, even if in a different time frame, or dimension, the other focus exists as do you, now.
What we percieve as past people as gone, future people as not manifest yet, as focuses of attention of essence of consciousness, they all happen to exist now.
Which will remain theoretical until science proves it?



Dora, thanks:)
What I love about Elias, of course, is that I find his info stretches the mind. And gives a cool perspective on what and how we have established...created, what we have created.
Also nice to see more Elias readers, quite a minority we are...lol

 Rob, really like your explanation!  A great way to visualize and to easily understand the concept....

with deep appreciation,
Justin

N/p Justin, ...my pleasure .
I enjoy using simple geometric shapes to explain concepts.
With this illustration, it can be expanded on still. Like to factor in that each individual focus of essence on that wheel is its own axle, with many projections or versions and aspects of it, and so on into countless wheels.

Rob and Dora  ;D,nice to see you here!

Yes, i can understand the axle spoke way of explaining it.  However, i don't understabd why there seem to be no future lives available for viewing.  For instance, using that illustration, lets say that there are a total of ten spokes in one axle, 2 in the present, 5 scattered throughout the past, and then 3 in the future.  The 3 future ones should be as viewable as the past ones, yet appear to not be, as no one recalls future lives, that i know of.  Any ideas?

MS

Robert Monroe went to a future life of his somewhere in the year 3000 or so.  I've read of others who have seen future 'probable' lives as the future is subject to change.  I've done a retrieval about 3 years ago from the year 2013.  The program, Timeline, at The Monroe Institute takes people to past and future lives. We can access any life ourselves. It's a matter of going within.

Time is relative. There is NO TIME. It is a physical construct. We are living all lives, past, present, future, parallel, multi-dimensional right NOW.  :o

Love, Mairlyn ;-)

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The 3 future ones should be as viewable as the past ones, yet appear to not be, as no one recalls future lives, that i know of.  Any ideas?

Mr Satan, hello, ok for example,here is a list compiled on the elias site by individuals who have connected with focus lives of their essence in many time frames, past and future...
http://focuses.eliasweb.at/O_time

Hi MS-

Yes, I've done future progressions. Among other dismal things, Los Angeles is expected to survive for another 100 years. The problem is that definitions are not linearly developed From a single time stream Along a single time stream. There's an old Gold Coast saying, "Destiny is fan shaped,", meaning that we have lots of potential futures, all of which are valid. Just because you lived in one doesn't mean that you'll go back through it again later. Hugh Everett's "Many Worlds" model of Quantum Mechanics, developed with Archibald Wheeler, came out of Erwin Schrodinger's "Cat Paradox" . In essence, all potential futures are real, but not all realities are accessible. This makes sense. If you came from a future in which you XYZ for the first time, and then live here, then you have brought an experience of XYZ here, so it wouldn't be there as the first time in the future you previously experienced, but would be somehow different in some other future. As far as I've been able to see, what we have is a linear path through a reality that is linear and logically cumulative for us as individuals, so that yesterday implies today implies tomorrow, but that otherwise seems to be laid out in a previously defined array of possible states where all the yesterdays and tomorrows have already been defined. We are sort of travelling through them by directing intention.

By the way - I don't charge my volunteers - In fact I give them 2 hours of anything they want to work on in return for 8 hours for me. So if you're visiting San Francisco or LA keep it in mind.

Rob- I love your description. There's a famous Hindu idea called "Indra's Net". The image is that the universe is populated by diamonds, and the gleam from the facets of each diamond is reflected in the facets of every other diamond, so that in the reflections we have the image of each other, and of the world.

dave

Hi MS-

Yes, I've done future progressions. Among other dismal things, Los Angeles is expected to survive for another 100 years. The problem is that definitions are not linearly developed From a single time stream Along a single time stream. There's an old Gold Coast saying, "Destiny is fan shaped,", meaning that we have lots of potential futures, all of which are valid. Just because you lived in one doesn't mean that you'll go back through it again later. Hugh Everett's "Many Worlds" model of Quantum Mechanics, developed with Archibald Wheeler, came out of Erwin Schrodinger's "Cat Paradox" , and deals with this idea (vaguely).  In essence, all potential futures are real, but not all realities are accessible. This makes sense. If you came from a future in which you XYZ for the first time, and then live here, then you have brought an experience of XYZ here, so it wouldn't be there as the first time in the future you previously experienced, but would be somehow different in some other future. As far as I've been able to see, what we have is a linear path through a reality that is linear and logically cumulative for us as individuals, so that yesterday implies today implies tomorrow, but that otherwise seems to be laid out in a previously defined array of possible states where all the yesterdays and tomorrows have already been defined. We are sort of travelling through them by directing intention.

By the way - I don't charge my volunteers - In fact I give them 2 hours of anything they want to work on in return for 8 hours for me. So if you're visiting San Francisco or LA keep it in mind.

Rob- I love your description. There's a famous Hindu idea called "Indra's Net". The image is that the universe is populated by diamonds, and the gleam from the facets of each diamond is reflected in the facets of every other diamond, so that in the reflections we have the image of each other, and of the world.

dave

Yea...Indras net, kind of gives an idea of how we are connected.
A little different from the wheel illustration, as that kind of explains the vastness of an individual as essence.
Our multidemensionality, and our connection in consciousness.

the wheel and indras net are difficult illustrations to merge together....hmmmm

there is always the regional areas of counsciousness outline....

I had some comments regarding certain points brought up within this discussion thread, but unfortunately, was unable to (as I originally intended) make the entire post here at one go (due to the word limit set by the AFK Conversation forum script).

Rather than cut it up clumsily into chunks, for those interested in the topic of this discussion thread, and might like to have a read on my input/views/comments, you're invited to visit my post here :


http://infinity.hispeed.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1113196507