In the last days there was a lot of discussion about Terri Schiavo - the woman lying in wake coma for about 15 years now.

Since - according to Bruce's FAQ - those people are often found in focus 22, i was wondering if someone tried to contact her? I'm reading a lot of retrieval stories but nothing about coma patients. Wouldn't it be possible to get those people back to live (in either direction ;) somehow?

Ciao, ...Joachim

Hi,
according to my sources of knowledge (Bruce, Kevin Williams, etc), it's quite impossible to contact people in F22 because they're not aware of that place.
"Killing" Terry (letting her starving to death) should be useless, because she would not be aware of  her "passing" and she may need a great effort from Helpers to be re-directed to the Light. From a Spiritualistic point of view, I think that we Doctors can't keep people alive in ICU if they're are not able to breath, eat, etc by themselves, but no one has the nerve to give her a shot of poison, because we must respect a Oath.
IMHO, we need another kind of Doctors, Tanathologists, doctors who are devoted to help patients to die, but this Specialization doesn't exist. Was Terri's life devoted to open our eyes and create "The Schiavo's case" to force us to reflect on life's  and death's boundaries?  ??? ??? ???
Bruce's thought would be greatly appreciated!

Doctors have testified in court that Terri Schiavo's cerebral cortex, the part of the brain that controls thought and consciousness, has been turned to liquid.  Also, she has a flat EEG, meaning she has no brainwaves and therefore no thoughts.  I am of the opinion that after 15 years with no improvement in her condition, it is time to let her go to heaven.  Her spirit has been stuck in the chaotic realm between earth and heaven, unable to animate her body and mind, but unable to pass on into the afterlife.  I believe that is no way to treat a human being.  The feeding tube keeping her body technically "alive" while her spirit languishes in limbo is arguably an instrument of torture.

Freebird

I believe that her soul knows what it's doing and will remove itself from her body when her soul contract has been completed. ;-)

Love, Mairlyn  ;D

wrote on Mar 20^th, 2005 at 5:19pm:

I believe that her soul knows what it's doing and will remove itself from her body when her soul contract has been completed. ;-) Love, Mairlyn  ;D

If the body is being kept alive by medical technology, how can the soul just leave?  If it does leave, it is only an OBE because the soul would still be connected to the body until the point of physical death.  If physical death is being prevented by human intervention, then I do not see how the soul is free to permanently leave the body of its own volition, because death requires the body also to die, not only the soul to leave.  That is how I understand the relationship between soul and body, but of course I could be wrong.  If you can explain why my viewpoint may be erroneous, please do; I would be interested to hear evidence for another possibility.

Here are two articles by Kevin Williams, webmaster of [url=www.near-death.com[/url]]www.near-death.com[/url],  which I think make some very good points about the Terri Schiavo case and end-of-life issues in general:

The Vegetative State: A Fate Worse than Death
http://www.near-death.com/experiences/suicide10.html

Do We Have the Right to Die?
http://www.near-death.com/experiences/suicide11.html

I tend to agree with Kevin Williams' view of these issues and would strongly recommend his near-death website.

Freebird

Beats me Freebird.  I was only guided to write what I did. Perhaps this controversy over whether or not to pull the plug is the reason for her life this time around. I can only guess at this point. ;-)

Love,
Mairlyn  ;-)

wrote on Mar 20^th, 2005 at 7:03pm:

Perhaps this controversy over whether or not to pull the plug is the reason for her life this time around.

I think you're probably right about that.  Makes sense.  She's certainly having a huge impact on the world, just by lying silently in a bed.  Pretty amazing.

Freebird

Hello all, this is my first post to the forum, although I have visited every so often even on the old forum.

I have the Gateway program and I'm about to start my second round of the cds.  I'm not to the point of being able to go oobe at free will or control it when I do in the dreaming state or otherwise.

I too was hoping that someone who does have the ability to do this would try to contact Terri Schiavo to see where she is and perhaps what she would desire as far as her physical body.  If in fact she is aware of what is happening here in this realm.

So I would be interested to hear someone's attempt to contact her.  

I too have been deepy touched by her plight. And I honestly do not know what would be best. But I don't think starving her to death is the answer. Especially not on the word of an ex. I have a bad feeling about him for some reason. And I saw the pictures of her and the stories of her parents. The main thing is, suffering. And I think starving to death would be a terrible way to go. I don't know, but I hope and pray for her to get what she needs.

Blessings,
~Tru~

The impact she is having is immense. Maybe she is sacrificing herself to jog our collective consciences.

After my Mother-in-Law died (starved to death) from cancer, if it were me I'd hope for someone to give me an ultra-massive shot of morphine to peacefully end it, and not force a lingering termination.

Meanwhile, prayer has been proven effective in healing, love is effective in support, and compassion is needed in any case. To this degree, perhaps we can assist Terry.

dave

For those who are interested, the webmaster of www.near-death.com, Kevin Williams, has published the latest edition of his Near Death Newsletter. This edition is devoted entirely to the Terri Schiavo case and end of life issues.

http://www.near-death.com/newsletters/2005/0315.html

Kevin Williams is anti-tube. He's got a lot of good links in there, including some pro-tube links too.

Freebird

Thanks Freebird, this newsletter looks good, I'm getting into it now.

Joachim,



wrote on Mar 20^th, 2005 at 2:42pm:

Since - according to Bruce's FAQ - those people are often found in focus 22, i was wondering if someone tried to contact her? I'm reading a lot of retrieval stories but nothing about coma patients. Wouldn't it be possible to get those people back to live (in either direction ;) somehow?

 From my experience I'd say it is definitely possible to reach and communicate with people in coma.  I've done it several times with confirming results, and I've observed that others have done this also.

 In the cases I've seen the person in coma was often either too confused to understand where they were or to understand the choices available to them.  In one case a woman's awareness had split into two major pieces, one existed in Focus 27 (the largest "piece") and the other piece in physical reality.  After sort of bringing these two pieces together again the physical portion decided that since recovery was hopeless she would leave.  She died not long after.

In another case an Alzheimer's patient was contacted by her daughter who attended my workshop to learn how to reach her mom.  The mom was in late stages and incoherent within physical reality.  The daughter contacted her in Focus 22 and helped her understand that she could choose to leave.  The mom died a little while later.

Perhaps the real question is, whose purpose is being served by intervention?  I prefer to leave all decisions to the persons directly involved.

Sometimes our own fear of death, and lack of understandding of what death is, makes us force very stupid, cruel decisions upon others.

Bruce

 

It is too bad that death by starvation is the only option available at the present state of our culture. But at least it is over with in a few weeks, the way that some illnesses are over in a few weeks, and I would think it would be easier to endure than the present condition, which offers no hope.

My mother chose to die by starvation, on finding herself half paralized after a stroke, unable to take care of herself. She had completed her life and done what she wanted to do. She simply refused food. I gave instruction to withhold special measures to keep her alive. I felt that was entirely proper. It was soon over and we could go on with our lives. I wish I had then, the knowledge that we have now. She managed to make the right decision without that knowledge.

Death, after all, is hopeful. It gives us something to look forward to. Maybe even a new incarnation.

If I was sufficiently developed as a retriever, I just found myself had the idea that I'd try and contact Terri and guide her out, or at least ask her what she wanted to do.

I tried focussing on her, and it could have been my imagination, but I started picking up a fairly intense impression of fear...but not just fear...rigidity, and a sense of being "locked" but mentally rather than physically...not sure if that makes any sense.  I also had an impression of this wall of whiteness...not white in the proverbial white light sense but I think in this case it was like a wall or a fogbank.

I tried to get some information through...I felt like there was a lot of panic there, and I was basically just trying to get some words through to her about her situation and where she was/might be, but her panic jammed me out...I'm not so good at dealing with other people's emotions yet.  When the words got jammed out though I focussed on trying to send her just the mental image of photos I've seen...of her lying in a coma...I hoped somehow that that would give her the idea.

If someone with more experience could get some information through to her though. it'd be good...because my impression anywayz was of someone with no sensory input whatsoever other than simply the colour white, and no sense of time or space.  I don't think she knows where she is, or how long she's been there, but for me anywayz the level of panic I'm getting from her is like a brick wall.  I can't communicate through it.

I've had the feeling she might be in some sort of foggy state unaware of her circumstances. I haven't had the time to try and make contact or been too exhausted to try. Work has been very demanding for the past couple of months, getting about 5-6 hrs sleep. I'm courious about her thoughts and wishes in this situation. What does she feel and what goes on when in a comma?

You know, I was thinking.... Terri Schiavo is now on day 13 without food or water, and still alive.  It could just be random that she is lasting so long, or it could be because of spiritual powers.  Conservative Christians might say that God is keeping her alive longer to prove a point, or to give more time for the lawyers to find a way to save her life.  But I have a different thought.  Could it be that the fact that so many intensely religious people are praying for her to stay alive, including hard-core pro-life activists demonstrating outside her hospice, the Pope and Catholic hierarchy, the President of the United States, all kinds of fundamentalist preachers, etc., is actually binding her spirit to her body and preventing her from dying quickly?  If there is such a thing as power of prayer, perhaps all these prayers for her to remain in the flesh have been making it more difficult for her soul to detach from the body.  Maybe they are actually keeping her alive, not because of a feeding tube, but because of their intense prayers.  Any thoughts on this idea?

Freebird

Terri has passed.  As I write, the story on Yahoo would now be probably ten minutes old.

I read a story the other day talking about how none of us know her or know anything about her, and so therefore it's rediculous for us to feel anything about her one way or the other.  I countered that on my blog though with the opinion that although it's true that I don't know her, and don't know whether or not she should have lived or died definitively, that I didn't understand what was wrong with feeling empathy for her situation.  I couldn't control the outcome one way or the other, and I didn't want to.  I just found myself feeling a little upset for someone in her situation.

In my mind's eye I'm finding myself picturing her being led out of the white fog I imagined her to be in earlier...There's three or four people with her, and they're taking her to the beautiful park that so many here have mentioned going to...F27...and telling her about all of the wonderful things she has to look forward to now.  Although her initial passage was somewhat difficult and lonely, I have a feeling that her coming experience is going to be sufficiently joyous that she will be able in time to forget about that.

It is a beautiful place, that park...at least as I've envisioned it.  It's temperate, and there seems to be some kind of bright overlay to everything.  Things feel just as solid and real there as they do here, except there is also an odd wispy, ephemeral aspect as well.  There is one particular corner of it that I love, which is shaded by a few trees.  The sun comes through every now and then and lends some warmth to it, but it's intercut with cool breezes, and the grass and soil are soft and somewhat cool also.

People are coming in all the time; sometimes I think I sit and watch them.  Some of them are confused; some of them have come from different parts of the vast expanse of astral space...it's only relatively rarely that someone comes here directly after having died.  But they all find their way here eventually.

Terri's sitting at a wooden table with the three or four people who brought her here, now.  They're giving her some cold lemonade, for the sensory experience of it to act as a catalyst to her realising where she is...the chill, the bubbles, the sharpness of the carbon.  She drinks, immersing herself in the sensation...one of the first she has felt for a very long time...and begins to cry with joy and relief as she realises the experience she just had is over.  I'm nearly crying myself as I picture this.  She can go wherever she wants, now, and continue to learn and grow...and most of all, she no longer has to experience the degree of aloneness that she did for so long...a level of aloneness that no human being was meant for.  She's free.

For some weird reason, a particular song I've had on the brain for the last few days, which I feel is associated with Terri Schiavo somehow is Elton John's cover of Rocket Man.  I'm not sure if that is significant of anything...or if it isn't just my imagination in thinking there's some kind of link...it's just a feeling.  It's a shame nobody can ask her husband if that was a song she liked, as it could possibly actually verify the other visualisations which I've mentioned in this thread as well.

hello everyone,
I just wanted to clear up Claudio's statement
(only in case you were thinking about thanatotherapy, not tanathology which is a bit different field
:))


Code:

IMHO, we need another kind of Doctors, Tanathologists, doctors who are devoted to help patients to die, but this Specialization doesn't exist.

well...I agree that it's difficult to find something on the subject, but this surely doesn't mean that it doesn't exist ;)
http://www.thanatotherapy.ru/indexe.shtml

not much, but still something..
My good friend is a thanatotherapist..He went away for a week to Egipt, to do some serious cleaning up...
But I'm sure he'd be delighted to share some knowledge on the subject, if anyone is interested that is....

All the best  ;)

Petrus, thank you for your description of the Park.. it makes me want to go there. During the summer, when I sit somewhere and just watch the trees and the leaves rustling in the wind, I get the same kind of feeling. I can see why the Park is a perfect place for anyone who has had a hard physical life, and also why explorers like it so much.

wrote on Apr 4^th, 2005 at 5:15pm:

I can see why the Park is a perfect place for anyone who has had a hard physical life, and also why explorers like it so much.

I will confess that I of course do not know for certain if what I've seen is the same as what other people have...but the impression I've had is of a rectangular grass area, with benches at regular intervals around the outer perimeter of the grass, a path beyond that, and then outside that a garden bed ringing most of the whole thing, with branches from the trees in the garden bed hanging over the benches.  The trees there are all different kinds...birch, yew, willow.  I think it was specifically designed to be as calming and comforting for new arrivals as possible...I think of it myself as a reception area.  It may just be that my own level of development hasn't allowed me to go further in...given how negative I've unfortunately still been feeling at times lately, that is a definite possibility...I still have some clearing to do.

I also found some difficulty in describing the precise layout of the Park though, and I think the reason why is because its layout is not set, in physical terms...it's fluid, and can change as needed/desired depending on what new people need when they're coming in.  But as I said, I'm quite possibly entirely wrong here...it actually feels rather presumptuous of me to be describing this...I feel as though given how upset I still am offline about things at times, that the Park isn't somewhere I'm developmentally ready for yet...and that it's possible that my imagination is just going on other people's descriptions here.

Hi Petrus,

I believe that the Park looks the way people expect it to look.  As you said, it's fluid and changes according to the way people need it to look when they are brought there. ;-)  I've never really thought about the layout, just that there's lots of green grass and beautiful flowers and trees so full of leaves and blooms and pathways, etc. And benches too, and fountains because I wanted to see fountains. At least, that's the way I've always seen it. ;-)

I know that when I arrive there, I always 'feel' like I've taken an escalator there and sort of 'step off'. LOL

Love, Mairlyn  ;D

Petrus quote:It is a beautiful place, that park...at least as I've envisioned it.  It's temperate, and there seems to be some kind of bright overlay to everything.  Things feel just as solid and real there as they do here, except there is also an odd wispy, ephemeral aspect as well.  There is one particular corner of it that I love, which is shaded by a few trees.  The sun comes through every now and then and lends some warmth to it, but it's intercut with cool breezes, and the grass and soil are soft and somewhat cool also.
_______

this is the way I see it too Petrus and I got a good verification from your vision about Terri that it's very bright now but not blindingly bright where she is, so your post was very inspiring and thank you for posting and sharing it. I do appreciate it. the reason I'm posting today is that in the in between state in the morning I often find myself in the act of typing something on this board and this morning it was about Terri. I was shown a picture of like a root vegetable, as a carrot underground. I kind of laughed to see the reference as at the same time I was shown that her spirit was not in the body those years; it was her family that wished it were so. she had a job to do that she volunteered for and it was instructive to all of us to let the dead proceed without clinging onto them to fulfill our own needs. I saw this because of the body being the root of the top of the plant, which the top was broken off. I believe the brain was symbolic of the top. the life that remained in the body was without will or capacity for growth. we all of us as a society were being permitted to look upon the vegetative state and declare it good or bad which we took up sides on. we all needed to consider what we were looking at and come to terms with it. on this other level Terri did volunteer and was quite removed from the body and going about her business, yet you were correct that when the body was allowed to quit, as she couldn't eat food, I saw that it was offered to the hand or to the mouth for there is no force feeding in that act, yet there was no capacity to take the food, that the spirit and will had gone on long ago. this lets people see what the body is. it's just a vehicle for expression and experience gathering, it is not the whole of us. that's all she was doing, showing this, yet when the body died along with the brain which was dormant and of grey color, showing no activity I felt your vision was correct that her spirit, already in a great place was able to feel that satisfaction of a mission completed. I think her husband, made to be portrayed as a beast without feeling had been picking up on some visits with her, of what her wishes were and he was trying to honor them and at last he succeeded, but the timing was perfect even though it was drawn out so many years, if she had died early on we wouldn't have even noticed her life and what her mission was. I sense her great happiness right now along with you and one of these for her http://images.bravenet.com/common/images/smilies/greenlight.gif