After reading all the copy and paste stuff, all the "I have a doctrine in this and that and this is what I have read" stuff.  I am compelled to ask this question and it comes from loving discernment. For my part it is not open for debate so one does not have to post a reply. It is just a question for one to quietly ponder in silence....or not.

What do you really KNOW? I'm not talking about what you have read, what you have heard, what your beliefs are, but what do you really KNOW?

What do you really KNOW from authentic Direct Experience?

Quote:

What do you really KNOW from authentic Direct Experience?

May I  direct your attention to the "retrieval archive" section, where you can find - not by preaching biblical refferences - but  many individual who participating in this board for long years, based on their   personal perceptions and beliefs which is true to each individual  first hand experiences.

Something seems to be happening.

All the rest is conjecture, I guess.

Or do you also count "absolute knowledge", such as geometry?

dave

Welcome to the board Daff :-)

Yes there does seem to be a lot of copy and paste stuff going on with a few people.  And putting all of that aside, I do think that there are many, many people who populate this board who do speak of their own personal experiences.

If you have a question or something you wish to share with us, please do!  I always love to hear about other people's personal experiences.

Love and peace,
Kathy :-)

Hi Daff,

   "What do you really KNOW?"

 This question will lead to realization, if you answer it correctly. The hard part is discarding all your beliefs in order to examine what is left. It may be helpful to consider that the most insidious beliefs are those we call 'facts'. Good Luck to you in that endeavor.

                                 wayne ;)

What do you really KNOW from authentic Direct Experience?[/quote]

Interesting question...hehe...reminds me of Morpheus question to Neo in The Matrix, "What is reality?" which in turns comes from the question of Pilates to Jesus , "What is truth?".   Good question to stimulate interesting conversations, so I jump in :-)  Not to debate, you already wrote it's not your intention, but just be-cause.


My answer to your question is quite simple.  What you know through authentic direct experience is what are all the thoughts and beliefs you personnally hold as true. It's a feedback process. Life in 3D is a self-fulfilling prophecy.  The world "out there" matches the personnal energy one's is holding.  I don't mean it precisely matches the images we hold in our imagination, but rather the overall resonnance of our vibrations.  You won't receive a gift or have an accident because you foresaw this exact gift or accident, but your vibrations created them in your life.  Your thoughts and emotions have drawn the event lines that lead to these events.

Many scientists, in particular quantum physicists and perceptual psychologists, question the fact that there is really something "out there", but a flexible matrix,  a universal womb of all potentials, and what we perceive is what we project on it.  What the bleep do we know?  ;-)  What we know from experience is what we project in it.

As I see it, "Authentic direct experience" not only mirror conscious thoughts, beliefs, values and judgments, but also the unconscious ones, and that's a huge difference, since our conscious part is only but the tip of the iceberg.  And, when gazing at the mirror of physical life, one's have to remember the gap effect:  some of the things you manifest in your life root from previously held, old thoughts, since 3D physical world is not a world of instant manifestation, as in non-physical realms ( That's why I have learned through direct experience, too, that when changing direction in life, it initially takes some consistancy of intention through time, even if results don't show up immediately. )

In my authentic, direct experience of everyday life, I also observe that, to add to the complexity and "fun" of the Game, all that I know from my experiences is known through the set of beliefs I hold at the time I interpret it.  for example, if I see the same movie 3 years later, I won't see it the same way, and what I will know from it will not be the same, since my vision has changed.  In Bruce's books, he refers to the perceiver, and the interpreter, as two parts of our self.  Those two are evolving, and the knowledge that comes from direct experiences changes too.

Obviously, in my perpective, there is not only one Truth, and even personnal truth is in a constant state of evolution.  And I can never say to someone that he is wrong, only that her or his truth does not currently matches mine.   I won't start a war to prove my truth neither (but I can see that certain religions and political ideologies do so...)

What I feel is when someone is using the terms "authentic direct experience", the focus is on having the courage not to loosely adopt a conscensus truth as your personnal truth, but have the courage to consciously experience it, casting it from your own creation of this truth in your personnal life, so you have proven to yourself that it is possible to manifest it.  If I succeed in my attempt to levitate. I can say "I know that human being can levitate, I have done it myself"

This does not mean that knowledge acquired through a personnal,  authentic direct experience is absolute knowledge!  If I can levitate on earth, that doesn't mean I can levitate on Mars, or another planet where the gravitationnal effect to overcome through consciousness is not the same, or it is not sure neither that I will be able again to levitate on earth on friday at 8 o'clock.  But  direct experience  overcome the possibility of some tricky things linked to non-direct experiences such as false testimony,  special effects on video,  and the like :-)   But are these useful, sometimes?  Fiction movies open the mind to new possibilities,  dreams are the starting point of a new breakthrough.


The only constant thing is change, and to think that any vision of the world is THE vision marks the end of a creative life, in my opinion.  you begin to create the same things and situations over and over.  It's good for security, but you get bored.   And mental immobility can lead to fondamentalism.


In you question, you mention "beliefs" as an unsafe source of knowledge:

" What do you really KNOW? I'm not talking about what you have read, what you have heard, what your beliefs are, but what do you really KNOW? "

I would like to mention that the beliefs/value/preferences I see as the source of what we attract into our life is not "the things we think we believe", but what we really do believe and hold as true. If someone "believes" he can fly and falls down when he jumps over the edge, he just think he holds this for truth, he didn't really believe he could fly, there was doubts somewhere, probably at an unconsciuous level.  Robert Monroe always called people to change their beliefs into knowns through direct experience.  What I call "beliefs that manifest in life" would correspond to a "known" in Monroe's language (words are limitating, don't they?).  If the falling guy overcomes all of his doubts,  then he he will fly, but that will not be an easy belief to hold perfectly, because there is no support in the global human consciousness for a "flying guy" to truly exist.  How far a truth is from the global consciousness determines the level of difficulty of manifesting it in 3D life.


will be happy about comments and will follow this thread  :-)  


Peace and Abundance to everyone!

Wiz  

although you require no response, still I've a big mouth, lol. I must say this is a genuine question, by gum, it certainly is a mark of an advanced sort.

so heres what pops up for me: I only know what I "feel." if I get a feeling of love and peace I go into that direction physically and mentally. I know to follow my heart and listen to myself is far better than to take another's word for what "truth" is or isn't.

I know I've made some headway in this life because I feel it. I feel I can leave anytime and be ok with that.
I "know" I need no longer be convincing.
I know when I'm scared I'll find a way to be courageous.
I know I love you people here.
I know I survived so far.
I know only how to share, but not advise.
I know the dead are not dead.
I know that words are a severly limited mode of communication.
nonetheless, I know I've chosen words to use as my path.
and thats enough knowings for now to share.
would like to see others on this thread, what they know for certain within themselves, hee, I "know" I desire this! http://images.bravenet.com/common/images/smilies/bouncer.gif

 O.K. Alysia, here's some:   I know I will continue to be surprised....I know I survive death....( on this last, I've been a silly man, it took dozens and dozens  of obes before this sunk deep into my bones)...I know I enjoy your company here on this site Alysia!   Best to ya, Tim  (more later..)

surprises are a good thing Tim, you just surprised me by that comment about surprises..I am so surprised to know I like surprises..as I was oftentimes in a bad mood when surprised before....lol. I better quite while I'm ahead.....

For the sceptics and non-believers:

Remember this:  The Truth, when it arrives, is always different from what we thought it would be.  If we imagine that we already know the truth, that imagination  is based on old and habitual ideas.  But the truth is always something entirely new to the mind; therefore, we cannot know what a new day is like before we experience it,  we cannot think accurately about a new truth until we first live it.

Vernon Howard

  This excellent question ( what do you....?)  is one to continually  ask,  makes ya realize how very little we do know for sure, it peels away assumptions, I for one have barely begin to ponder it...Daff! Thanks for asking!   Alysia, thanks for the laugh!  Hey Nutmeg, isn't Vernon Howard great?  I picked up a book years ago with a cheesy cover and title: the Mystic Path to Cosmic Power.  Then I started reading it and knew I had discovered something precious.  I've since read other works of his.  Very useful if you're interested in 24/7 practice,  his work can cause a profound shift in how we relate to thoughts in our heads.  It tickled me to see the quote Nutmeg....   Will continue to ponder this question , it has much juice for me,  thank you all, Tim

Here's another quote for you Tim and for those who do not have blind faith:

Q:  Why do you say that we must question everything in spiritual matters, instead of having faith and trust?

R:  Because much of what is called faith is merely gullibility.  Also, deceivers are clever in making stones resemble bread.  You may acquire a taste for stones, and in time will be unable to distinguish between stones and bread.  And in the final tragedy you will no longer want bread, and will even fight  those offering it.

Vernon Howard
Pathways to Perfect Living

I know I am more than my physical body. I have
direct experience of this. Yes, it is true. It is a
Known. It is enough for me to know just this.
Doctrines and dogmas don't matter anymore.
We'll all get There.

With regard to teryc's post:

Faith is blind trust in someone's second-hand story.  Faith, no matter how devout, can never replace first-hand experience

(I'm full of quotes today)