Does the spirit have a body that to them,fells and looks solid?.If this is so,than that would explain why they after passing ofer would think they are alive and not dead.I know I have seen spirits that look solid to me.I would like to know how they look to other people who have seen them.George

George, from what I've seen and experienced, those who are in focus 23 thru focus 27 have bodies. Those who are more advanced appear as balls of light.  My feeling is that they don't really have bodies but 'think' they do, therefore they do because our thoughts manifest what we want. ;-)

Love,
Mairlyn  :D

Quote:

from what I've seen and experienced, those who are in focus 23 thru focus 27 have bodies.

Marylin, in my understandings considering that the Focus 23-27 is only our "labeled" areas of the consciousness, and not some address with zipcode  ;D and it is  non-physical how can they have actual body  other then your experience let you believe that they have one, which I have no doubt true to you, but it might be not the truth

Thank you for you comment on my post regarding Elias explanation of our beliefs but this are the things exactly he pointing out and refering to, when he talks about how beliefs influensing our perceptions and reality and how experiences follow OUR beliefs and not other way around

Whatever we experience while in physical AND after disengagement, and in transition period is based on our perceptions and beliefs, and the purpose of the transition period is shed those objective beliefs because they are just  IS, beliefs in physical and non-physical until the transition complited,  where is no levels, no "higher" or "lover" only full awareness and recognition ''who we really are"

Hi Dora,

Yes, you are so right. And once those beliefs are shed, then those who are non-physical realize that they don't need the thought form bodies that they have created.  I guess I should have stated that it is my beliefs that lead me to 'see' bodies whereas we actually all have energy signatures that we learn to recognize in the non-physical. ;-)

Love,
Mairlyn   ;D

wrote on Feb 14^th, 2005 at 3:15pm:

how beliefs influensing our perceptions and reality and how experiences follow OUR beliefs and not other way around

I feel compelled to respond to this idea.  I have heard versions of this so often, from so many people who believe in a spiritualist or new age view of reality.  The fact is, numerous ordinary experiences in people's lives prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that experiences often go against our beliefs rather than following them.  This is the only way that spiritual growth -- or growth of any kind, for that matter -- can occur.

Did a person who was hit by a truck and became paralyzed from the neck down "believe" this horrible experience into being?  What about the tsunami victims, did they "believe" they were going to die or have their whole livelihood taken away in a killer wave, and that's why it happened to them?  No.  This is absurd.  Every day, in places all around the world, optimistic people have bad things happen to them that they never expected.  Pessimistic people also have good things happen that they never thought were possible.  Their beliefs have little to do with it.  In fact, their beliefs are challenged by these unexpected things that happen, and it forces them to grow spiritually.

Atheists have NDEs.  Skeptics see ghosts, UFOs and aliens.  The morally ultra-conservative have gay activist children with tattoos and piercings all over their body.  Religious fanatics who think God is in their corner have things happen to them that shake their rigid belief system to its foundations, such as unanswered prayers and tragedies in their life.

Beliefs create reality?  Yeah, right!  More often, it's just the opposite.  And it works that way to force us to get out of our own limited box and realize our beliefs do not control reality, that reality transcends our own personal fantasies and expectations.


Quote:

Whatever we experience while in physical AND after disengagement, and in transition period is based on our perceptions and beliefs, and the purpose of the transition period is shed those objective beliefs because they are just  IS, beliefs in physical and non-physical until the transition complited,  where is no levels, no "higher" or "lover" only full awareness and recognition ''who we really are"

I think that at all times, God is working to help us shed our beliefs and move into the realm of true reality.  That includes both life on earth and life after death.  The only time our beliefs create reality is when we are dreaming, imagining, and probably during times in the afterlife when we are allowed to take a break from objective reality and do the equivalent of dreaming.  Maybe that includes the transitional period of passing from life in the body to life outside the body, but as you said, the goal is to move beyond being confined to this state.

Freebird

Freebird,

Respecting your point of views, but it is very obvious that we not typing in a same language, not when it comes to understanding the terms...


By the way, Beliefs create reality? to your question NO, Perception create reality, and that is always influenced by beliefs and your post is perfectly reflect just that. I have no doubt that all of this are absurd for you, since you don't seem to  understand that your beliefs true for you but have very little impact on mine...
Neither of us better or worst, but different

In my understanding, and many experience what support those understandings, belief systems, beliefs, are NOT the same as "believing" something.
Beliefs in my understanding not limited to religious beliefs, but every moment, every action, every thoughts is influenced and based on beliefs...


Quote:

I think that at all times, God is working to help us shed our beliefs and move into the realm of true reality.

Obviously we have different view on reality it self also.... You believe that God working to help us...

I believe that there is not God, not anyone create my reality other then myself. My reality is not based on the beliefs in a fictitious character.. and that is my preference and choice in beliefs...
and that give me the understanding that

Freedom is simply choice and the knowing of it.  In actuality, freedom is merely the knowing of the expression of choice in any and every situation.

Well said, Freebird.  Of the many points that discredit the channelings of Seth and Elias, this is one of the most obvious.  Other errors can be exposed through historical investigation.  I will shortly illustrate this in detail in  my "Agenda" post.

Don

Good grief!!!  

wrote on Feb 14^th, 2005 at 9:07pm:

Freebird, Respecting your point of views, but it is very obvious that we not typing in a same language, not when it comes to understanding the terms... By the way, Beliefs create reality? to your question NO, Perception create reality, and that is always influenced by beliefs and your post is perfectly reflect just that. I have no doubt that all of this are absurd for you, since you don't seem to  understand that your beliefs true for you but have very little impact on mine... Neither of us better or worst, but different

Obviously everyone is free to choose their own beliefs.  I have mine, you have yours.  I decided to express my opinion for anyone who might be interested in hearing a different perspective.  I have noticed that many people on alternative spirituality forums tend to believe in an exaggerated degree of free will, but my own life experiences and reflection on events in the world have convinced me that this viewpoint is erroneous.  I thought it would be good to share the other side of the issue.


Quote:

Obviously we have different view on reality it self also.... You believe that God working to help us... I believe that there is not God, not anyone create my reality other then myself. My reality is not based on the beliefs in a fictitious character.. and that is my preference and choice in beliefs... and that give me the understanding that Freedom is simply choice and the knowing of it.  In actuality, freedom is merely the knowing of the expression of choice in any and every situation.

"not anyone creates my reality other than myself" -- gosh, I wish I could be living in that world you're living in!  We must be in parallel universes!  ;D  In your world, is there no such thing as events that occur which are beyond your control?

I can only say that at some point in time, you may face a situation or event in your life that will challenge your strong belief in freedom and force you to reevaluate it.  Several years ago I thought much the same way you do, but my life experiences threw me for a loop and reduced my free-will oriented belief system to rubble.  It was then that I truly came to understand that there is a Higher Power who is in total control and that our own individual ability to choose is quite limited.  When I realized this, it came as a terrible shock and it has taken me a couple years to fully embrace this truth.  Nobody wants to admit they do not have the power, that Somebody else has the power.  But life has a funny way of teaching us that there is Somebody who is more in control than we are, and that reality is mostly an externally imposed truth rather than an internally generated choice.  Yes, we have some free will, but only within boundaries.

Please understand I am not trying to convert you to my way of thinking.  I am only sharing my view of reality, based on my own experiences and reflections.  Nor do I claim to know all the answers -- far from it!  ;)

Freebird

Freebird....


Quote:

Please understand I am not trying to convert you to my way of thinking.  I am only sharing my view of reality, based on my own experiences and reflections.

I'm very well aware of that  :D so am I....


Quote:

I can only say that at some point in time, you may face a situation or event in your life that will challenge your strong belief in freedom and force you to reevaluate it.

Actually I did, and since I evaluated my own aligment with the beliefs previously i.e. "higher power" and took  the "liberty" to excersise my freedom of choices  in  beliefs and actions , - not by force - since then I do not create trauma, turmoil, illnesses, problems, tragedies, and if and when I do, I understand that nobody creating it for me, other them myself,  -nothing what I would need to "pray" about,nor have to be saved from anything,  and certainly never did and never will encounter in anykind of "evil" since those are never was and never will be part of my reality... But I understand that long as I'm manifested in physicality the only thing I can and DO is noticing, identifying, recognizing, adressing and accepting my own beliefs, so as others, with the best reward and that is awareness and self-knowledge

It would appear that the spirit has a body much similar in fashion to the physical body in which it was incarnated. This body is tangible in its own density and frequency. It would seem logical that no matter how high a spirit ascends in the celestial realms....he/she always has a human body form....however spiritualized. But who knows....maybe some do become balls of light...but this seems to nebulize or de-personalize a human spirit to just a glob of light-energy. It would seem that we retain our unique bodily forms as they even become more perfected as we spiritually advance. In this sense...the soul always has a body in which to operate.


paul

Hi, freelight,

An interesting line of thought, as is Marilyn`s first posting on this topic.

If the spirit evolves at a higher level to a ball of light energy, how are they to recognise each other if they all appear the same? Surely, there must only be one frequency of light energy, which we are capable of perceiving, for all spirits at this level,  If not, why not?
For that matter, how would we recognise them when they visit us, although I appear to answer my own question, below?

To my way of thinking I would like to agree with you, albeit in a visit to the Afterlife I had over a year ago at one stage I was approached by five orbs of light (curl-shaped as Bruce described in his books), one being much brighter than the others. Although I didn`t "recognise" them as people, I automatically "knew" who they were, with my wife being the brightest orb, and both her parents and mine as the others.

Perhaps Marilyn is right in that at some stage the transformation from a body-spirit to light-spirit is made.
Have others experience of this?

regards, roger      :)

Hi rog,

Interesting. Most of the after-life accounts and spirit-communications I have read seem to indicate that one continues in their spirit-body-form.....and such resembles what was once their physical form-features. In these lower yet more highly spiritualized realms of the Spirit-world.....things are much like they are on earth but more astral or spiritual in nature. However they are still substancial, tangible.

I dont recall any beings of light appearing as balls of light or 'orbs' - but I havent read Bruces accounts. It still seems logical that we have a bodily form in all dimensions of spiritual ascension no matter how glorified our being is...or the realm is in which we inhabit.

It would seem that the soul would maybe look like a ball of light perhaps...before its incarnation in its pre-existent state....but then the soul after incarnation develops its spiritual body which grows with the physical body.....and is at last liberated at physical death (the soul continuing on in its spirit-body-form). Or one may assume that a soul at some point in time due to its spiritualization....may appear as a ball of light. At this point as you note....it would seem to be hard to recognize personalities this way....but perhaps possible thru some kind of soul-sense. Still.....seems pretty nebulous and ethereal.

Scripture does indicate that we shall know even as we are known.....so there will be a true recognition of personhood/personality. I think forms are beautiful...and as we advance in spirit....we shall possess bodily form and fashion. Our bodies will be immortal and spiritual........but there is no indication in scripture that we will be balls of light or energy-orbs. Even Jesus is said to have his immortalized spirit-body-form in the heavens at this very moment.

The above is from my research so far. I have had no NDE or spirit-travel experience where I've seen spirits who were balls of light yet. All in dream states are people with bodily forms of some kind.

Just some thoughts. If you have links, references on this subject that suggest some beings being balls of light or other forms unlike human forms....let me know.

paul

Roger........I do know that we each have an energy signature that we are identified with.  I don't know anything about it, but Bob McKelvy who posts on here too, might be able to explain it better.  I became aware of the energy signature when he wrote to me one day probably 2 years ago and said that he had seen me teaching at TMI THERE.  I wrote back that that was very interesting as I had no idea that I teach 'there', and what was I teaching. And how did he know it was me.  Bob replied that there was no mistaking my energy signature, that we all have them, and that's how we know who we're talking to/dealing with.  I have yet to understand this as I see souls 'with bodies' (I guess my belief system) and also see souls as Light Beings but I don't recognize their 'energy signature.'

Bob went on to tell me that a man named Marvin had told him to go and see me teach.  In describing the man, it was my father. ;-)

Anyway, perhaps we can get Bob to relate more on 'energy signatures.'

Love, Mairlyn

:D

Body Schmody!!

I am with Dora on this one.

Ultimately we are borne out of pure consciousness. There is no body in that state.  Self-awareness doesn't automatically necessiate having a body to know one's self as "self" or as an individual expression of something larger.  

As we move down to denser levels such as this then thought takes over and after a few lives, these realms govern our ego consciousness more than pure consciousness levels do.  hence the alignment with beliefs that we are inextricably physical.  as most are aware, this continues through to the astral levels but may discontinue in less dense areas.

Freebird - the beliefs are intrinsic and deeply rooted in collective consciousness of humanity as a whole (as well as dynamically reinforced over hundreds of thousands of years).   So not just an individual belief in one of us

That may be your differing of opinion with Dora. Its not your surface expectations and beliefs created in this lifetime but the totality of our views and understanding of Earth.

When you say "obviously everyone is free to choose their own beliefs, you have yours i have mine" - while containing essential truth, it is a whole whole lot less apparent than you seem to appreciate.

I would say most of our common intrinsic beliefs are identical and we have a very difficult choice in freeing ourselves from them and choosing others with different parameters.

Hence, we associate ourselves with a body in defining self here and in the astral but pure spirit consciousness has no deed and in such a plane of existence simply won't.

(of course these are just my views, surface-believe what you want)  :D

Scott

Most of us are used to perceiving our day-to-day life with our minds as we catalog the events in our life. We also perceive the world around us with our hearts. Pretty much the way the mind does. With the heart, it is more intuitive (feeling) “I have a feeling that.” I know there is a lot more to this. I’m just presenting this from my perspective based on experience. Bruce talks a lot about using the heart instead of the mind in his Curiosity series. Most of us have been doing this anyway. That’s why we are here on this board. I’ve noticed that everything has it’s own unique energy signature. Sort of like a fingerprint so to speak. When we start using the heart, we start going with the energy signature to perceive and know the world around us. These unique I.D.’s go far beyond all of the dimensions, time and space. This is usually what is happening when you see a complete stranger and have the very strong feeling that you know that person. You are recognizing that person by their energy ID. There are also many people who you have established a love bond with that is carried far beyond time and space, as we know it. You have known them forever even though it has only been a few short hours. These bonds form the basis for cosmic family relationships where they are interacting with each other with multiple dives together down here. People like Linn, Sylvia Browne, and John Edwards pick up on the energy I.D’s of the people who have passed over. That’s how they bring the info back. Their acting as translators. While were at it. We have names down here. On the other side, names fade out. We go with their energy ID instead that we perceive with our heart. That’s why most of your guides are not particular about you giving them a name. The use of a name is only for your own benefit. This reminds me of a scene from the musical XANADU, which has always been a favorite movie of mine. In one of the scenes, a lovesick man crashes into another dimension and meets Zeus. In the ensuing conversation, he ask’s Zeus how he knew his name. Zeus tells him that we do not use those old fashioned names up here. Jumping back to those two boys that stole my bicycle. Their energy ID stood out. I always knew when they were in my area. The Adventure Continues! Love Bob  :)

Bob, thank you so much for posting this. This helps me to understand more too.  Now I understand more completely why I have such a 'heart' pull to some people.  Herb is one. I had a dream about him the other night. I told him but didn't post it anywhere.  I had such a feeling of LOVE for and from him and it was all heart love, not romantic nor sexual, just Pure Unconditional Love.  Bob, you are another and Bruce and Jeff and Alysia and Gordon and so many more (I think you know who you are). :D

Much Love,
Mairlyn     ;D

Scott,


Quote:

Ultimately we are borne out of pure consciousness. There is no body in that state.

Based on my understandings and experiences we are consciousness period. The only difference between *here* and *there* that we choose to manifest in physicality, and with that choice we agree" as this physical dimension "blueprint" that we manifest in body, AND agreed to apply  "belief systems" without NO exception...


Quote:

Hence, we associate ourselves with a body in defining self here and in the astral but pure spirit consciousness has no deed and in such a plane of existence simply won't.

The biggest difference is that most individual due to the rigid and unmovable -knowing the truth-  beliefs  seeing themselves as a single "entity" therefore seeing themselves as a "thing". so body is a thing here, then we have to  be a  *thing* there also, *here* is a lower or higher direction here then it has to be* there* also..based on the  never examined or understood separation and duplicity beliefs...  

I  could share my own understanding but certainly not with this clarity as the following...

ELIAS: “Everything, every thing, underline three times, is composed of links of consciousness, for there is no existence that is not consciousness!”

ELIAS: “You are not a shell! You do not possess a vessel! You are not a boat floating upon a river! You are not a vase containing flowers! You are a magnificent expression of extremely complicated arrangements of links of consciousness which physically manifest into matter of atoms and molecules that you manipulate.

ELIAS: “Let us view the workings of consciousness – what IS consciousness – and the distinctions of essence and consciousness. You may notice throughout this information that I express a distinction between essence and consciousness. Essence is consciousness, but there is consciousness that is not essence. Essence is also unlimited. This be the area that is very difficult for your understanding within physical focus, for you are so very accustomed to thinking in singular terms. All that you create within your physical dimension moves in this direction.

“You create things. You identify things. Even things that you may not see you classify as things, and this creates great difficulty within your thinking and your imagining of how there may be an element that is not a thing and that may be some quality in itself but unbounded simultaneously, that may be thought of in the manner of a distinction but not separate....

“In this, I have spoken previously of links of consciousness. Links of consciousness are not things either. They are elements of consciousness, but they hold no form. They are not within what you term to be a time framework, although they may be inserted into a time framework, but the time framework itself is comprised of links of consciousness, and these links of consciousness have no necessary space arrangement. They exist within all space arrangements simultaneously and within all time frameworks simultaneously.

(Intently) “Essence is not separate and apart from consciousness. There is no separate and apart from consciousness. There is no boundary to consciousness. There is no limit to consciousness. Therefore, there is no thing, no element, no action outside of consciousness, for there is no outside. Within consciousness, the configuration of these links of consciousness creating personality tone is the designation of essence.

“You are thinking of your essence as a ‘thing’ – an ‘entity.’ As I explained, I am not an entity. You are not, either. An entity denotes a separate thing. You are not a thing.”


Quote:

When you say "obviously everyone is free to choose their own beliefs, you have yours i have mine" - while containing essential truth, it is a whole whole lot less apparent than you seem to appreciate.

It matters not.... we all resonate materials according to our own awareness, in my beliefs that is just different, in others view  I'm wrong... ;D the difference is that I understand that the only thing I KNOW, that I  know nothing, and that certainly set me free from the battle of "truth fighting" and I'm not slave of my own beliefs...

When God created the earth,and all that was in the earth,he said let us make man in our own emage and likeness.Who was he talking to when he said this.some say it was Jesus,but others say it was someone else.Who do you think he was talking to.George

wrote on Feb 14^th, 2005 at 1:53pm:

Does the spirit have a body that to them,fells and looks solid?.If this is so,than that would explain why they after passing ofer would think they are alive and not dead.I know I have seen spirits that look solid to me.I would like to know how they look to other people who have seen them.George

_________
yes, George, I believe based on a retrieval I did where I could "feel" by tactile touch the girl's body as warm and as solid as any body I have ever touched, so I do believe that this condition of perception can be just as "real" as our physical bodies are now appearing to be real. also I have been an orb once complete with all my other senses I use in the physical body except I could see in back of me as well. also there is a state of awareness one can be in where there is no apparent body until desire to have one takes effect. apparently we can have our cake and eat it too. George, you have become a lightworker here of substantial value! I thank you for your presence and your interesting questions.

love, alysia
images.bravenet.com/common/images/smilies/enlighten.gif

George,

Your quote; When God created the earth,and all that was in the earth, he said let us make man in our own image and likeness.  (Sorry, haven`t figured out how to box the quote)

Is that really the case when we see from our scientists how man has evolved since first appearing on earth, in looks, stature and intelligence?
Or am I reading your quote too literally?

I find it hard to reconcile that statement with God. Also, who would have been able to record what he said?
Btw, I do believe in God.

regards, roger.   :)

wrote on Feb 16^th, 2005 at 5:11pm:

George, Your quote; When God created the earth,and all that was in the earth, he said let us make man in our own image and likeness.  (Sorry, haven`t figured out how to box the quote) Is that really the case when we see from our scientists how man has evolved since first appearing on earth, in looks, stature and intelligence? Or am I reading your quote too literally? I find it hard to reconcile that statement with God. Also, who would have been able to record what he said? Btw, I do believe in God. regards, roger.   :)

Personally, I interpret the creation story in the Book of Genesis in a looser, more metaphorical sense than what fundamentalist Christians believe.  I believe it is possible to reconcile the Biblical story of creation with scientific theories such as the Big Bang and evolution of species (albeit with modifications requiring divine intervention to accomplish creative purposes).  For example, there could have been a Big Bang, and this corresponds to when God said "Let there be light."  There could be evolution of species and this corresponds to the six-day progression in which life on earth was created according to the Genesis account, each day representing an age or epoch.  God planned it and determined it, but it happened through the functioning of physical laws over long periods of time.  God works in mysterious ways that are sometimes not easily provable as divine intervention, but they really are.  I see it as more a teleological issue rather than a question of precisely how God accomplishes His will.  Some Christians will debate against evolution until their face turns blue, but I think they're missing the point.  Physical evolution combined with teleological divine purpose can be just as glorious as a more literalistic method of creation.

As for man being created in God's image, I don't think that means the physical body.  I think it means that we are spiritual beings like God, with His attributes latent within us.  We are like the spiritual offspring of God and therefore are part of His family in a metaphorical sense.

Freebird

P.S.  To box a quote, you can hit the "quote" button instead of the "reply" button, or you can use quote tags -- put the word quote in brackets at the beginning of the text you wish to quote, and then again at the end, but with a / (the forward slash character) before the word quote.

wrote on Feb 16^th, 2005 at 1:26pm:

Roger........I do know that we each have an energy signature that we are identified with.  I don't know anything about it, but Bob McKelvy who posts on here too, might be able to explain it better.  I became aware of the energy signature when he wrote to me one day probably 2 years ago and said that he had seen me teaching at TMI THERE.  I wrote back that that was very interesting as I had no idea that I teach 'there', and what was I teaching. And how did he know it was me.  Bob replied that there was no mistaking my energy signature, that we all have them, and that's how we know who we're talking to/dealing with.  I have yet to understand this as I see souls 'with bodies' (I guess my belief system) and also see souls as Light Beings but I don't recognize their 'energy signature.' Bob went on to tell me that a man named Marvin had told him to go and see me teach.  In describing the man, it was my father. ;-) Anyway, perhaps we can get Bob to relate more on 'energy signatures.' Love, Mairlyn :D

_______

I remember when Bob posted this Lucid dream/obe on the board way back when Mairlyn. I got a sense it was true then and just today as u relate it i felt that whomp of energy in the head area that you are familiar with also receiving when you know something is true. just wanted to support you here that I'm in agreement that you are indeed a teacher, and that in a holographic sense, all of us are "more than we seem" to be outside the movie of our physical lives. thank you always for your gentle input. I for one know certainly whatever Bob dreams is completely true and have met with him on occassion out there to receive my confirmation as well as healing energy I have received from him. Something has happened to you too Marilyn, I have watched the change in you and applaud  it over the years. I have not attended your classroom but often feel my energy around you and have kept you in my mind always as somebody to watch closely. Lately you have wowed me here on the board so there is a strong connection definetely or perhaps we are creating it which is not to say it is less valid. Precisely is the question, we know not who we are in completion here, as Bob has also told me I do not know who I am either. he was right. drat. I don't know all my "others" and druthers that I might be. still, I believe in PUL to widen our awareness of who we are and you demonstrate this in your way. and if you have not love, you have nothing (DP is starting to rumble, hee.) he says in all your getting get yourself love. my desire is aligned with yours in that this board remain the loving family in sharing that it has always been and that judgment be not passed around so carelessly in condenscending manner of superior belief systems put forth. but you know this already and I know you know this. there is in each of us here a spark so I hope the sharing continues from people's hearts and not soley from the intellect which can be in error and exclusion of other's beliefs to the point of viciousness and some know not even how a badly placed word can be like a dagger. there really is nothing to prove you know. we need to listen to each other better my opinion. whoops, rambling again...you see how I need this board? have a good trip my dear, I know you shall be flying here shortly to another residence.
http://images.bravenet.com/common/images/smilies/steeringwheel.gif   love, alysia

Thank you dearest Alysia. I'm not trying to cause any trouble here, only trying to get things back on track to the loving open forum that this was and can still be. I remember when it was a joy to read of other's experiences, question them yes, but not try to make someone feel that it was all in their head (which basically it is LOL because it's all a journey inward, even to the afterlife).  The newbies have no idea what it was like before. I was so excited because I had read Bruce's first 3 books and wanted to learn all I could and when I faltering posted my first retrieval, was so thrilled when Bruce said it was a class textbook retrieval.  What is the last retrieval posted here?  There's hardly any talk of retrievals anymore.  I realize that times change but I refuse to buy into all the negativity that has resulted from the skepticism.

No, no one has to believe it because we say it's true. If only people would find out for themselves instead of putting people's experiences down. As you know Alysia, no one can convince anyone else of KNOWNS.  They come from direct experience.

Much Love dear friend,
Mairlyn   :D

wrote on Feb 17^th, 2005 at 12:52pm:

Thank you dearest Alysia. I'm not trying to cause any trouble here, only trying to get things back on track to the loving open forum that this was and can still be. I remember when it was a joy to read of other's experiences, question them yes, but not try to make someone feel that it was all in their head (which basically it is LOL because it's all a journey inward, even to the afterlife).  The newbies have no idea what it was like before. I was so excited because I had read Bruce's first 3 books and wanted to learn all I could and when I faltering posted my first retrieval, was so thrilled when Bruce said it was a class textbook retrieval.  What is the last retrieval posted here?  There's hardly any talk of retrievals anymore.  I realize that times change but I refuse to buy into all the negativity that has resulted from the skepticism. No, no one has to believe it because we say it's true. If only people would find out for themselves instead of putting people's experiences down. As you know Alysia, no one can convince anyone else of KNOWNS.  They come from direct experience. Much Love dear friend, Mairlyn   :D

ah, yes, I remember well. I posted as a newbie hoping for confirmation of my own very first retrieval and Bruce responded affirmatively. i had not been sure I had been of much use to the young man in the alley so it was suggested I could return. I did return and found all was well. really, first time retrievers can be expected to not always get it right. then as the board took off and running we drifted away from retrieval postings and somehow it was rumored that Bruce wanted more retrievals posted.....I asked him then, using him as teacher, how many shall I do a week? he said "oh, I do two or three." completely in the imaginative method I set off to do 2 or 3 a week. lo and behold i was soon off and running myself into unseen and unknown areas of mankind and spiritual awareness by imploying the imagination method which was suspect all along but I knew doubts were a part of the process due to reading his book "Beyond All Doubt." then I sort of bottomed out on retrievals. Bruce then on the board gently informed me I was now to go into other areas of exploration. such as perhaps to the library, akashic records, there was so much more to explore beyond retrievals and I was being nudged into it by the board members also. mostly guides directed me to self retrievals and everyone became me, and I became humanity as I saw we were all on similar journeys..being human, but we were really immersed in the illusion of humanity. this is not our home in other words. so my point is there comes a time when all the retrievals become deeply personal and to share them and to recieve a hurtful word from a skeptic who believes you are quite deluded takes a measure of courage not to get sucked into the negativity and realize they are where they are and do not mean for you to take it personally into your heart what they are expressing in their differences. you're right, u are not causing trouble or trying to and I hear what u are saying and support it. I like Tim's? quotation: be gentle with one another as you cannot know another's struggle here.

love, alysia http://images.bravenet.com/common/images/smilies/grouphug.gif

Alysia,

I think what’s happening is that we have posters/readers coming from a minimum of three angles. The first and probably the originals were/are those who wanted to continue the journeys described by Monroe, Moen and others and keyed in Bruce’s web site directly.  That’s how I came here 3-4 years ago and continue to do so. The second group is coming to this site by browsing “afterlife” seeking answers about the afterlife and come with an “empty cup”.  They since have become more and more involved in experiencing the afterlife directly and sharing their stories.  I love reading their input. The third group surfs the web “afterlife” to confirm or debate what they believe about the general category “afterlife” but basically come with a “full cup”.  Personally boring (to me) but they need to have their say too because, after all, they just might have something interesting or challenging to say/learn or I might.  

The web has become a wonderful tool to connect with information and share with others what can sometimes be a lonely existence.  The web can also be used to obfuscate any issue while at the same time getting your name in print to a wider audience.   It’s a wonderful thing that more and more of us are able to read/write/study, write long papers and even cut and paste other writers to argue a point.  But what I gain the most from is people’s personal experience with those who have left the physical plane.  These truly comfort me especially since I have become involved in the mental health field.  When I go to work and listen to the stories, those “crazies” they aren’t so crazy after all.  It’s a shame that the best we have to offer them is “better life through chemistry” and that Monroe and Moen would be considered crazy in my field. My “clients” stories parallel my experiences and those of the authors I’ve read on many nonphysical encounters including those on this board and have yet to contain anything really unfamiliar.
 
I love this board but also have problems when seeking what I came here in the first place because much of what is currently happening is bordering on the proselytizing of personal belief systems. It’s becoming more difficult to weed through the monologues to get to meat of personal stories.  These other topics may be interesting in themselves and definitely old and familiar, but don’t comfort me in my personal journey through the later years of my life. The Monroe/Moen related material does and the personal accounts on this board do.  But then again, I’m getting a first hand education on limited belief systems that individuals (including myself) hold that prevent them* from realizing that they/me are more than there/my bodies and that they/I can learn this through first hand experience.

I “live” for your postings and those of the many others who resonate with this site, all give so freely with love.  Thanks & keep up with the good work.  Take HEART and welcome to the “now” where we each (including the monologers with full cups ) are so connected/intertwined with each other due to technology and our increased awarness. All must continue to be welcome to contribute or we'll wind up resembling a religion.  
 

Jean          

Thank you Jean for speaking from my heart. you are well spoken and articulate, I could go on and it wouldn't be just flattery. I think I'm about over that stage. there are some here who have asked for personal accounts and experiences such as we find in Monroe and Moen books and although this board could not be so presumptious as to be able to establish the existence of an afterlife for every single person seeking to know, yet you are right, personal stories that have to do with experiences along these lines have been the only kinds of books I ever been able to read with anything close to concentration. so with that in mind my friend, you have inspired me to ....did I ever tell u about the time my sister became a crow? lol! tune into the front forum...I'm on a roll!
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wrote on Feb 16^th, 2005 at 2:18pm:

I’ve noticed that everything has it’s own unique energy signature. Sort of like a fingerprint so to speak. When we start using the heart, we start going with the energy signature to perceive and know the world around us. These unique I.D.’s go far beyond all of the dimensions, time and space. This is usually what is happening when you see a complete stranger and have the very strong feeling that you know that person. You are recognizing that person by their energy ID. There are also many people who you have established a love bond with that is carried far beyond time and space, as we know it. You have known them forever even though it has only been a few short hours. These bonds form the basis for cosmic family relationships where they are interacting with each other with multiple dives together down here. People like Linn, Sylvia Browne, and John Edwards pick up on the energy I.D’s of the people who have passed over. That’s how they bring the info back. Their acting as translators. While were at it. We have names down here. On the other side, names fade out. We go with their energy ID instead that we perceive with our heart. That’s why most of your guides are not particular about you giving them a name.

Bob, thank you so much for posting this.  You have clearly put it into words for me and explained why I see and talk to people on the other side and I know them well... yet I don't know their name.

Love, Kathy :-)