I wanted to share this story since everyone has so many great stories about their experiences. First off, my mother and father are ministers and they have a church, which is very small scale, but still their small community's place of worship. Well, I never really visit home much, but I went home when my first son was 3 years old to see my grandfather who was basically on his death bed. My grandfather to me was the person I was the closest too EVER in my life and I honestly thought that if he did pass that I would not be able to live on myself....

I went to visit him and showed him his grandson, which was such a memorable and monumental moment for me. After that last visit I never got to see my grandfather again because he died in a transport out of South Carolina because a huge hurricane was hitting the coast. My mother told me that my grandfather intentionally stopped eating and responding to the nurses after I left, which means he held onto life just to see me one last time and after that was content with dying.

Well, the religious part of this is not directly related to my grandfather or even death. I went to church the following Sunday and of course my mother was preaching and was having the portion of the service where you come up for prayer. I of course went up because I was her son and because it was expected since I haven't been there in 5+ years. Well, she said to me when I came up that God told her that I thought I was coming home to see my grandfather or to show everyone my son, but he had something planned for me that would change my life FOREVER....then everyone surrounded me and she said some words and she touched me on my head.....and I fell out and was unconscious!

I seriously went up there with the idea that I was going to get my prayer, she would touch me and I would lean back and then sit back down, which is protocol for the younger ones in the church because the idea that Christians believe that when you are in the "presence of God" you cannot stand and the powerful annointing of God is what knocks people down when they are prayed for or blessed a la Benny Hinn in the early 90s.

Well, me the sinner/christian because of my parents went down when I was touched and was out cold for a few minutes. I felt like I was floating and woke up in complete awe, like someone hit me or that it was some type of trickery because I have seen many a people go down before, but I thought you had to be a "real" Christian or a person deeply embedded in religion. But I went down and I think that is what was going to change my life, because I always tell skeptics that story and I get back tons of "crap" trying to explain what happened scientifically.

Well to add to that, I went back to church a week later and went back up for prayer again, and guess what happened....I went down AGAIN!! I have been in awe of that week at home since it happened years ago, and I wanted to share this with everyone here because I know you would understand and maybe might have some input on what you think it might have been.....

Well, a week or so after that my grandfather died like I mentioned already. And of course my grandfather's memories always brings me back to those events I just typed. He has even visited me twice in two dreams, both in vivid color, and he spoke to me and said some very detailed and interesting things, which is a different story, but I thought I would share this with everyone. Let me know what you think. Peace.

-JG

And after all that you are STILL looking for something to convince you that there is more than just the everyday world?  

Until the Emperor Constantine and his wife decided to expunge certain aspects of early Christian doctrine, the idea of reincarnation as just as acceptable to early Christians as to Jews of the day.  However, if we were allowed to believe in reincarnation, we would tend to disbelieve in the "divine right of kings" upon which emperors depended.

Your Granfather sounds like he had his act together and was a truly wise and loving person. If Grandfather comes to visit, I suggest that you deliberately ask him for his opinion on the subject. At the same time, ask him to provide a demonstration. The fact that he isn't wearing a body doesn't mean that he can't offer you the convincer that you've been asking for over the last few weeks. Of course you have to be willing to be convinced - you can lead a horse to water etc.

dave

Dear JG,

It sounds like you had a genuine experience of what Pentecostals and Charismatic Christians call "being slain in the Spirit."  I say "genuine" because you did not go forward wanting or expecting this to happen.  Everything in the realm of the Spirit is counterfeited and many "slayings" are nothing more than auto-suggestion.  

In a lighter vein, I grew up in a Pentecostal church in Canada and always had a skeptical hang-up about being slain in the Spirit.  As an 11-year-old, I was once taken to a camp meeting in British Columbia.  My family and several relatives were present.  The evangelist, Rev. Bloomfield, was laying hands on hundreds of people and "slaying" them.  My relatives started nagging me to go forward.  Terrified, I refused, but they were relentless.  So finally and sheepishly I got in line.
So far, everyone touched had been "slain."  When my turn came, Rev. Bloomfield touched me in Jesus' name and--horror of horrors--nothing happened.  A groan went out from the audience and I felt terribly embarrassed.  Undaunted, Rev. Bloomfield touched me again, this time so hard it was like a karate chop and I was apparently tripped by his assistant behind me and fell down.  The crowd went wild.  There I was, on my back and wondering how long I needed to stay there to keep it from looking bad.    

Later I lived in Los Angeles for a year and went to see Kathryn Kuhlman, the famous Christian faith healer a few times.  She held her healing services at the Shrine Auditorium of Academy Awards fame.  You had to get there an hour early to get a seat.
One time she was just talking to this skeptical big  football player.  She inadvertently touched him in a gesture and that was sufficient to "slay him in the Spirit."  Another time I snuck up on the platform and sat down at the end of a row of about 60 ministers.  Kathryn whirled around and said, "You guys look like you need a touch of the Spirit."  As she touched them gently, they all fell off their chairs and lay prostrate on the ground.  I was terrifed by the prospect of her touching me, but she or God seemed to sense this and she stopped just before she got to me.  

Finally, at age 16, my  life was changed in a moment of destiny when I genuinely encountered the Spirit. The Spirit sent me a thought rote that told me that my belief system was flawed, that He wouldn't clear up the mystery for me then, and that I must therefore make it my life calling to pursue the truth.  I will soon detail this awesome experience in my post on "God and Destiny: A Reply to Roger"  where it is more relevant to the purpose of this site, a purpose I try to respect as much as possible.

Don    

Dave,

What you say about Constantine would be rejected by every respected historian.  To see some of the reasons why, you can visit Robert Bruce's website "Astralpulse.com" and check out the forums.  Under the topic "Judaism and Early Christianity", you can check out post "Reincarnation in the Bible and the Early Church" and let me know what you think.  So far Freebird from this site has read the post, but has yet to give me his detailed response.

wrote on Feb 12^th, 2005 at 9:06pm:

So far Freebird from this site has read the post, but has yet to give me his detailed response.

I thought I did respond.  I started a new thread here to discuss the issue.  My response, however, was not very detailed.  I remain undecided about the issue of reincarnation.

One question I would be interested to hear your thoughts on is the blind man in John chapter 9.  Jesus is asked by the disciples whether he was born blind because of his sins.  He answers no.  In other words, they were asking whether the man sinned in a past life, which implies a belief in reincarnation.  Jesus rejects that explanation for the man's blindness.

This shows two things: (1) some ancient Jews believed in reincarnation and their belief made its way into the story of the blind man in the Gospel; (2) Jesus did not categorically deny this idea, he only rejected it as the explanation for the particular blind man in the story.  If Jesus had wanted to rule out reincarnation in all cases, I would think he would have used this question from the disciples as an opportunity to expound on the subject.  Jesus's lack of further comment on the matter makes me wonder if he never intended to teach his disciples that reincarnation is totally false.

Freebird