I have come to beleive that the spirit is much more real than our human body.When a person dies,the spirit leaves the body,and forms its self into a body that looks and feels solid.This is when we become confused,because the human body can pass through the spirit,But the human body can not pass through walls like the spirit can.We become more real than our counter part,that will decay and die,but the spirit lives on as if we did not die at all.we are free from pain,and we can eat and drink if we want.There is everything that we ever wished for in the spirit world.Now we are real and our human become the unreal.Dieing should be a time of great joy,and not a time of sorrow.everyone should understand this,that our loved ones that have past over,are very much alive.George

Maybe another way of saying it is that conciousness is more "real" than matter.  Maybe matter is a "realization" of conciousness (one of many).  Maybe words are too limiting. Perhaps spiritual bodies are "beliefs" too.

Maybe I should change my nick to "JustQuestions" or "JustMusings".  

Hi George, Group.

George,

I tend to agree with you.  One reason for my agreement is because, as a Christian, I believe the testimony of the Gospel that the resurrected Jesus was able to materialize and dematerialize at will, walk through walls, eat food with his disciples, ascend to heaven, etc.  Apostle Paul says that there is a physical body and a spiritual body, and that the resurrection is the transformation of the physical into the spiritual.  Jesus gave people a glimpse of the wonderful possibilities of the spiritual body, so they could believe in life after death (many Jews in his time believed death was the end).

I have not had an NDE so I do not personally know for sure whether the spirit body is real, but the many NDEs I have read about confirm this belief, and the story of how Jesus appeared to people after death is good evidence as well.  Also, Apostle Paul had an NDE where he said he rose into the third heaven, which is recorded in the Bible.  In his testimony, Paul said that he didn't know whether he was in the body or out of the body.  That's another clue that the spirit body is very similar in terms of how real it feels compared to the physical body.

Freebird

Yes..it does seem as though Paul had an OOBE..(as opposed to Near Death Experience).  When I've brought this up to Christian friends, they usually avoid the topic, roll their eyes or say it was a "vision"..but, why would he say "whether in the body or out of the body?"

I met a young man the other day who dressed as a female."She" said she was a female in a male body. I noticed she was plucking ALL her eyebrows off, as if in hate of the body. She said she was going to get breasts implanted. She deffinatly felt she was not THAT body.
I honestly consoled her.
I said she was deffinatly a she, the confusion was in that she had slipped into the wrong body, either out of impatience or just  randomly jumping back into the human womb too soon. I asked her too be patient, that she had spent more time as spirit then in body, and while she was in body to remember that she was not her body.  She felt relieved.
Honestly, when I look in the mirror I do not see myself, I see a body that I am in, who I am is so much more.
Infinite.

Or maybe she chose this life for just this purpose. ??? ??? ???

Love,
Mairlyn   :o ;D

Thats true.
Theres this little girl about 6, who goes to school with my daughter. She dresses as a boy, and after school takes her shirt off and waits for  her parent to pick her up.  She is a boy soul.
We are not these bodies, but we do learn through them.
LOVE and ALOHA

I think that both the physical body and the spirit body are real, and that neither  is unreal. there is a tendency when you are in a physical body to think the spirit body is unreal, and a few people who spend a lot of time astral traveling may start to think that the physical body is less real.

Being in the wrong gender body could be an opportunity to better understand the other gender.

When a soul has reincarnated mostly as one gender then decides to experience the opposite, it takes a lifetime to make the transition. For instance, let's say I have mostly been here on earth as a female and then when I cross over I decide to have a lifetime as a male for my next life, I will carry over many of the female characteristics into the male lifetime. I believe this also explains homosexuality.

LightSeeker

wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2005 at 9:28pm:

Honestly, when I look in the mirror I do not see myself, I see a body that I am in, who I am is so much more. Infinite.

I have exactly that same feeling, its very weird in some ways. I noticed something the other day, its actually a lot harder for me to picture myself in my head than it is for me to picture someone else. Does anyone else notice this or is it just me?

I think that both the physical body and the spirit body are real, and that neither  is unreal. there is a tendency when you are in a physical body to think the spirit body is unreal, and a few people who spend a lot of time astral traveling may start to think that the physical body is less real.
__________________
I agree Boris both are real. everything is real according to the eye of the beholder. when I was a wee child I remember thinking strange thoughts that I should have chosen to be male. drat, I said to meself. goofed up again. but not really. I believe there is a level of spirit where the spirit is genderless and it matters not; male/female are expressions of energy polarities and we are simple energy complexes who wear many different types of clothing for a particular experience of the entire spectrum of what it means to be a human. but the body is as real as the spirit although I used to resent being in a body as I didn't appreciate it. It became later a mirror of the mind. it reflected every thought and feeling I was having, either as an illness or sign of health; if I talked to the thing it responded, glad for the attention to do my bidding as it was always neutral in that regard. I said to it, well, you're not so ugley after all, as a matter of fact I probably helped form your contours in the womb, choosing your weaknesses and strengths. whenever I realized the emptiness of the body, the futility of thought to save me from despair, the spirit would move over it's walls healing infirmities and making me aware of our spiritual reality and that it's a journey, a vacation resort here if that's what u want it to be.
;) :D it's times like these that u know u are already dead and there's nothing to fear about that transition. love, alysia

wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2005 at 10:33am:

I have come to beleive that the spirit is much more real than our human body.

My astral body has fallen from the sky during dreams and hit the ground next to my bed, only to raise up without being injured. What more, my astral body sometimes feels like it's stuck in mud or quicksand when trying to move it.

Superior indeed.

Both bodies are real its just that out situation and everything around us defines what we believe as real. So for the average person a spirit body isn't real because it can go through walls, which "isn't real" in our materialistic science world. Yet for us explorers and people who have experienced being OBE, or had an NDE we do know its just as real but we can do more as only ourselves limit are experience.

I believe this also follows through in this world. Some people who have studied for years in (have to excuse but not very knowlegable in this area) in certain martial arts can make bells ring without touching them by pushing energy towards it which I have seen and very impresive! All sorts of feats like this, some people I have read have progressed to a fourth (or is it 5th?), i dunno but the next level up dimensional body which apprantly doesnt need to eat, heals quicker. To me this sounds...well you know, i would like to find out more to see if this is actually true, or even slightly but still interesting.

About being homosexual, i think another explanation could be maybe a soul who has led many lifes as male and female and the energys of each side are becoming balanced?

And Ryan awesome explanation! I was trying to explain that feeling but couldn't think how too but you got it spot on! When I've projected sometimes I haven't been able to make my body move at all, sometimes i could but it would be very long and take a lot of effort just to stand up. Once I had stood up I was ok. I went through a phase of this during my OBE experiences but that went long ago thankfully! But yeah its exactly like mud or quicksand, you actually feel pressure all over your astral body like your being held still. Its annoying because you can't move for anything! So after a while i come back out and try again later.

Ryan

wrote on Feb 5^th, 2006 at 11:51am:

And Ryan awesome explanation! I was trying to explain that feeling but couldn't think how too but you got it spot on! When I've projected sometimes I haven't been able to make my body move at all, sometimes i could but it would be very long and take a lot of effort just to stand up. Once I had stood up I was ok.

I once had a lucid dream where I was going to kick a soccer ball. My astral legs felt like they weighed 50 pounds. I ended up falling in the air in slow motion and landed on my back.

It was funny. :) ;)