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Perception (Read 5840 times)
Bruce Moen
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Perception
Dec 11th, 2016 at 10:08pm
 
The great SwamiGoneBananas once said:

One's ability to perceive exists within the limiting boundaries of one's beliefs. 

So, what was that skinny old man with a beard saying??
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Vicky
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Re: Perception
Reply #1 - Dec 11th, 2016 at 10:57pm
 
Ha ha  Wink

That Swami was one smart dude!

I'm not kidding you Bruce, I was literally thinking about this exact topic about perception on my drive home from work this afternoon.

Pretty cool.
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Re: Perception
Reply #2 - Dec 11th, 2016 at 11:34pm
 
Vicky wrote on Dec 11th, 2016 at 10:57pm:
Ha ha  Wink

That Swami was one smart dude!

I'm not kidding you Bruce, I was literally thinking about this exact topic about perception on my drive home from work this afternoon.

Pretty cool.


What sort of thoughts about perception came to you?

Bruce
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Re: Perception
Reply #3 - Dec 12th, 2016 at 2:03am
 
Hi Bruce! 

It was in response to things I’ve been thinking about and trying to sort out for a while lately. 

Lately I haven’t been feeling as connected and influential in the events of my own life as I used to.  I’ve been feeling lost and unempowered, almost as if I’ve handed over the controls to someone else.  I've been believing that I don't have what it takes to get it back.  And I’ve been trying to get out of that funky belief!   I've been wanting to feel that I have communication with my higher self working for me again. 

Well, on my drive home today as soon as I turned the corner off work’s property this suddenly popped into my head, “How you perceive things and how you feel is controlled by what you believe.  If you alter those beliefs it will change how you feel and change how things appear, and that will affect your experience and the decisions you make.”  When I realized that all this was going through my head I knew this was how I could get the controls back.

I was really surprised at how that idea just popped into my head so suddenly like that.  I took it as a sign that this was the answer to all my wanting of help.  So I decided to take this advice. 

On the drive home I started evaluating my beliefs about certain things/causes/results in my life lately and how they made me feel, and how it affected my decisions and actions, and what I’ve been experiencing, and I gave those beliefs a 180!  I basically threw them out the door so I could stop feeling stuck in the thought of those beliefs and not knowing what else to do to get around them!  And I was especially tired of waiting for things to change so that I could feel different.

I'm not sure how I did it, but I guess just the thought of deciding to stop giving attention to beliefs that hurt me is what did the trick.  It took a ton of pressure off my mood and state of being tonight.  I felt lighter and freer tonight.  My thinking was clearer and smoother.  It resulted in me being in a great mood, which impacted some choices I made tonight, which in turn resulted in some serendipitous and synchronous events.  That of course put me in an even better mood! 

On just this small scale I was able to see the cycle of my perception, experience, and belief and how they are all tied together. 

So when I read your statement, "One's ability to perceive exists within the limiting boundaries of one's beliefs" it really reinforced what I was going through tonight.  Seeing your statement just 2 hours after I was thinking the same concept and applying it to my life, to me, was a form of verification that it's true and it's something I can do!

Smiley
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Re: Perception
Reply #4 - Dec 13th, 2016 at 8:02pm
 
This is also a topic which resonates with me. One specific and strong belief can completely detour a person from alternate paths -- simply because it is assumed that the belief cannot be discarded at will! How strange it can feel to discard a belief, sometimes like abandoning the very self! And yet, how freeing.

If the belief is not abandoned, the path seems invisible. But it is there all the time. Once on it, it seems just right.
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Re: Perception
Reply #5 - Dec 14th, 2016 at 1:28am
 
Hi Seagull,

Yes, it is certainly hard to will yourself to change.  I've actually been working on some specific things for a long time and recently it just all culminated.  Basically I'm fed up with myself for perpetuating worries and negative beliefs about things that I wish would change but I don't feel I can change them.  But it feels good to sometimes put all the worry aside and just let myself feel free from it.  It really does make life look different. 

Recently there were a lot of layoffs at work, and of course the rest of us worry we'll be next in a couple years.  My field is medical transcription and it's becoming obsolete.  I don't have any other training or experience!  In talking with my supervisor her advice was, "Well, you might just have to reinvent yourself." 

And so this has been a huge weight on me lately, hogging my thoughts and attention while I've been trying to figure out what I should do to prepare, trying to decide if I should go back to school and get a degree, but in what?  I'm 46!  It's not exactly practical to be starting from square one at my age.  There are worries like, who would hire someone in their 50s, fresh out of college with no previous experience?  Surely there will be competition with others who do have experience.  And I need to make at least the money I'm making now.  I can't take a huge pay cut!

So there are a lot of beliefs wrapped up on all that.  A big one being that I'm too old to really reinvent myself.  I don't have the ambition of a 20-something-year-old.  I don't even know what I'd really like to do or what I'm really capable of doing.  All the jobs that I think I'd love don't really pay that great. 

So beliefs that like, and the hidden beliefs that are buried that I don't even know about...they are hard to change.  I will probably just have to make a decision, stick with it, and see what happens.  That might be the only way to change those beliefs.  It's pretty scary for me.   Shocked

But when I talk to everyone about it, I hear that there are so many people my age and older in college, getting their degrees.  So I will try my best to try to change these beliefs, stop doing the negative worry-filled self talk, and maybe it will open up choices and pathways I haven't thought of yet.  Maybe if I keep asking everyone, I'll hear something that will give me an ah-ha moment.  I'm just hoping for the best because I feel so clueless right now.

So, that's been one big area of my life I need to get unstuck from belief-wise.  There are others too.  Like relationships.  I really do believe I'm meant to be single the rest of my life.  It's because I just don't see or feel it's in the cards for me.  Maybe because I've been single for so long.  I'm literally trying to change those beliefs but it's hard to do.  It's hard to tell yourself something that you don't actual feel, and then try to actually believe it.  But I know it works. 

Tonight with a group of friends we were all talking about OBEs.  Someone asked me advice on how they can learn to have an OBE.  I suggested re-writing their beliefs about OBEs, mainly to stop believing that it's hard to do and that you don't know how to to it.  I told them that everyone has OBEs every night, they just don't remember them. 

My advice was to stop programming yourself with the intention to try to have an OBE because there is an inherent belief in that that says you haven't had one and you don't know how.  Instead, tell yourself, "If it's true that I'm already having them but I just don't remember them, then I want to start remembering them."  If you give yourself that suggestion, the underlying belief is that you already know how to have OBEs, that "doing it" isn't the problem.  So you can throw those beliefs out the window.  It really will free up your perception because it opens your mind to a lot of possibilities that you weren't accepting before. 

So see, I know this stuff.  But I still need to work on putting it into action in all the areas of myself that I need to work on. 
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Re: Perception
Reply #6 - Dec 14th, 2016 at 10:32am
 
I wish you the best in finding your way, and I have no doubt whatsoever that you can and will find it.

I love your comments on OBE.
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Re: Perception
Reply #7 - Dec 16th, 2016 at 12:49am
 
Quote:
I wish you the best in finding your way, and I have no doubt whatsoever that you can and will find it.

I love your comments on OBE.


Aw thanks for cheering me on, I need it  Kiss
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Re: Perception
Reply #8 - Jan 13th, 2017 at 11:43am
 
Hello, imagine a person who wants to help in afterlife retrievals but does not know what blocks him. Maybe old beliefs, or some energy problems who knows. That person has tried but could not solve the problem be himself. The only way he knows how to contact the other side from time to time are lucid dreams. But lucid dreams are short, not always clear and there are memory fragments missing when back from that lucid dream. This is part of my path. I was able to contact my guides, but sadly there was so short time to ask questions (+many other unexpected problems) and i could not improve in 5 years of trying.

I wonder if it is possible for someone experienced to go in the afterlife (Bruce Moen style) and contact guides who could tell what is the problem with my perception. Would someone experienced with good intentions try to help me?

I am also owner of the book art of retrievals. Energy exercises are easy for me. But from the heart intelligence to retrievals there is like nothing happening and i had no way to check if the pretended retrieval was real or not.
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Re: Perception
Reply #9 - Jan 13th, 2017 at 12:45pm
 
Soulmael wrote on Jan 13th, 2017 at 11:43am:
Hello, imagine a person who wants to help in afterlife retrievals but does not know what blocks him. Maybe old beliefs, or some energy problems who knows. That person has tried but could not solve the problem be himself. The only way he knows how to contact the other side from time to time are lucid dreams. But lucid dreams are short, not always clear and there are memory fragments missing when back from that lucid dream. This is part of my path. I was able to contact my guides, but sadly there was so short time to ask questions (+many other unexpected problems) and i could not improve in 5 years of trying.

I wonder if it is possible for someone experienced to go in the afterlife (Bruce Moen style) and contact guides who could tell what is the problem with my perception. Would someone experienced with good intentions try to help me?

I am also owner of the book art of retrievals. Energy exercises are easy for me. But from the heart intelligence to retrievals there is like nothing happening and i had no way to check if the pretended retrieval was real or not.


Hi Soulmael,

I see this is your first post.  Welcome to the Conversation Board!

Are you also using the CDs or the MP3s that go along with Bruce's Guidebook?  If not I highly recommend that you use these.  It's also a good idea to re-do any section until you feel you're ready to move on to the next. 

You said:  "And I had no way to check if the pretended retrieval was real or not." 

I remember when I was stuck where you are, so let me see if I can help get you moving.  First, I suggest you start a new thread on the Retrieval Forum (or wherever appropriate to do so) sharing your experience if you have one to share.  That way we can all take a look.  There are a lot of people here who can give advice and helpful comments.

But in general my advice is that even though the whole exercise is in fact built on pretending and using your imagination, that doesn't mean everything you experience is pretend, as in "not real".  This is a very tricky area that will take some experience to get better at...deciphering what's real amidst the pretending. 

Pretending/imagining/daydreaming is all just a way of engaging your attention in an area of consciousness that opens the door to means of perception that we normally have blocked.  At the same time it also closes our attention to our physical senses and things in our surrounding that are a distraction.  So, you can see how there will be a sort of "overlap" where you are not sure if you're still making something up or if something real has begun to happen.  It happens to everyone, even those with lots of experience.

Another good bit of advice is when you really ask yourself, "Did I make that up?"  Because if you did not consciously decide and make something up but instead just experienced it, that's a sure sign that you didn't make it up.  One of my most incredible early explorations started off with me obviously pretending and I knew that I was, which was fine with me.  I was trying to get into the right mode, just playing along in my imagination.  But then suddenly things started happening and it was like I was watching a movie!  I was so shocked because I was not controlling any of this! 

Sometimes we do only get bits and pieces of awareness during our experiences, but Bruce has taught me to look at the sequence of events and see if I can fill in the gaps.  Ask myself, well what could have happened between the gaps to move the experience from "here to here".  It's just like when you're watching a movie but having someone distracting you for a few minutes here and there.  You end up missing parts of the story, right?  You can probably piece the whole story together by making logical assumptions and have the whole story still make sense.  It's just a way of helping you keep moving until you gain more and more experience.  It is all progress toward greatly opening your perception to a greater degree.

Even though I don't know what your retrieval experience was, let's assume it WAS real.  If it was real, the worst thing you can do is to believe that it wasn't.  That's going to keep you blocked.  If you stop judging yourself and just allow yourself to believe it was real, you're taking more steps toward progressing to greater experiences.  Think of it like practicing a musical instrument.  I recently started teaching myself guitar.  It takes so much practice and repetition and messing up over and over and over because it's impossible to just start playing perfectly!  But instead of telling myself it's not real, that all I'm doing is making mistakes and noise, I just keep practicing.  One day something just clicked and I was playing smoothly without even thinking about it!  So when it comes to your retrieval exercises, just keep believing that you're moving toward better and better skills.

What I've also learned about the retrieval exercises is that as a student you're looking at the end goal and along the way you're frustrated that you're not getting what you expect.  But I want you to remember that in the mean time you're actually building and strengthening skills, tools, and abilities that are the foundation of those goals you want to reach.  It's like "wax on, wax off".  Have you seen The Karate Kid movie?   Wink

And, only you can unblock your perception.  I am very experienced but even I have to work hard at it.  And if I stop practicing for a while and get distracted by other things in life, when I come back to this kind of stuff I have to get reacquainted with it all over again.  It doesn't ever really go away, but even for the most skilled it does take practice, patience, and persistence. 

Vicky

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Re: Perception
Reply #10 - Jan 13th, 2017 at 3:32pm
 
Thank you Vicky for the warm welcome. Smiley

I have only the book. And only the retrieval exercise script has been recorded on the pc as mp3 be me, because of its length and complexity.

First of all i want to correct this little misunderstanding. I do not want someone else to unblock/mess with my perception blockages (if there are any). This is serious stuff i do not need someone to be hurt. I need only the change of view so to speak. After 5 years of trying my guides muss be bored with my short attempts and failures at communication. Undecided

Bruce has written story about Rebecca and i felt that something like that is indeed possible without doubt. To meet at the nonphysical level and see or get the information about  persons problem. This would be easier for me to understand and work with. I mean when looking at the received knowledge about the problem from other perspective instead of waiting in the blackness or decyphering strange dream symbols.

Long story time: I know that a person is already there nonphysically focused even if no images/sound or other feelings are perceived. This knowing comes from my previous dream explorations where a  guide has been trying to get my attention for a long time. I was there already, but without vision/sound and after the perception kick'd in i was able to see that a woman guide has been waving hands at me and something speaking for about 10 seconds. In this time frame i was not able to react. Imagine someone talking to you, you see him but do not listen like your mind is blank and not there really and then you say "what were you talking  about?". The woman guide gives up, throws here arms around like "gaaah" and slowly walks away. Like knowing that 'i' was not conscious at the moment and the effort is not worthy. Then i notice that 'i am there' and by yelling at her i get her attention. I approached her. We started to talk. She talked about something  that i dont remembered happened so i was puzzled and then the image faded to black instantly and i was fully awake and could not fall asleep again that night. That conversation was short, 20 seconds at most. The memory about what she was talking was also lost after waking up. These are attempts i made almost every night with the intent to contact a guide and with a question prepared beforehead. But i think when moving between dream-lucid dream after trying for like 60+ minutes messes the memory. Lots of attempts were where i became lucid but forgot the question for example.
This speaks about my shortly,  that i know without doubt this are not some weird hallucinations, that the nonphysical exists and is accesible when curriosity, effort, practice and patience meets.

It's already late here. So good night to you and i will write more tomorrow about my attempts with Bruce's method of retrieval when i get to the PC.
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Re: Perception
Reply #11 - Jan 13th, 2017 at 7:01pm
 
Guides! Can't live with them, can't live without them -- I sometimes think. Eventually I found that they can communicate to a level/aspect of consciousness that doesn't fit the main layers I learned in school. A slight buzz indicated something was going on and I'd better respectfully accept it quietly.
It was making some adjustment in me that I couldn't define at the moment but that became clearer later.  I pulled away as did Soulmael many times, then felt the "aaargh' of the guide's frustration/disgust before realizing that doing so interrupted an important communication.   
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Re: Perception
Reply #12 - Jan 14th, 2017 at 2:14pm
 
2bets : What school you are refering to?

Vicky:
karate kid - I have not seen this movie.
perception - Maybe i am trying to fast to actually see some images and hear sounds. I was hoping to see something like hypnagogic where you actually for a glimpse of second see that face and can tell "yes this was a man with glasses and black hair". This i think would greatly help with progress. From time to time i see those hypnagogics including images or rarely sounds when practicing in the morning. But when doing the exercise from mp3 all that i am seeing is grainy blackness. When the mp3 voice says "is it woman or man? small or large..." there is more like deciding randomly what to choose. I would then say "it is a man. large. his name is John." and there could instead be a woman, thin with name Angelina. So this pretending without correct data i assume is also good, and will later bring maybe some little images? Or do i lack other skills like visualisation? This is also not done from focus 10 or 12, but from fully awake state without nearing sleep yes?
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Re: Perception
Reply #13 - Jan 14th, 2017 at 9:18pm
 
Soulmael wrote on Jan 14th, 2017 at 2:14pm:
2bets : What school you are refering to?

Vicky:
karate kid - I have not seen this movie.
perception - Maybe i am trying to fast to actually see some images and hear sounds. I was hoping to see something like hypnagogic where you actually for a glimpse of second see that face and can tell "yes this was a man with glasses and black hair". This i think would greatly help with progress. From time to time i see those hypnagogics including images or rarely sounds when practicing in the morning. But when doing the exercise from mp3 all that i am seeing is grainy blackness. When the mp3 voice says "is it woman or man? small or large..." there is more like deciding randomly what to choose. I would then say "it is a man. large. his name is John." and there could instead be a woman, thin with name Angelina. So this pretending without correct data i assume is also good, and will later bring maybe some little images? Or do i lack other skills like visualisation? This is also not done from focus 10 or 12, but from fully awake state without nearing sleep yes?


I love all your questions.  They are fantastic because I can tell exactly where you are in your level of experience and progress.  And please feel some relief when I tell you that you are just steps away from getting what you want and gliding through the exercises with success.   

Sleep is not necessary.  I'd like you to try the Guidebook exercises while staying awake and sitting in a chair and expecting only the same kind of "seeing perception" that you would expect from closing your eyes and daydreaming.  Do you ever fantasize about something?  Or even just think and remember with your eyes closed?

A perfect example for what I mean is:  Can you close your eyes and think about your dog?  Or remember your best friend?  Or something else you love?  All it takes is to remember the thought, feeling, and idea of something and it's there in your mind's eye even if you can't actually "see" anything.  I'm sure you'll feel and remember more information than you'll actually see.  It's a "seeing as knowing" kind of feeling.  That kind of "vision", "perception", and "seeing" in the imagination is all you need.  Even if you think you are terrible at seeing in your mind's eye, even if you're not able to "see" memories, that's ok.  Most people are capable of closing their eyes and "seeing" by knowing what they are thinking about.

In Bruce's exercises when he asks you if it's a man or woman, or large or small...it's not necessary to know the right answer.  The point is for you to go with whatever feeling comes to mind.  If you feel nothing coming to mind, then choose.  Just decide it's a man, he's tall, he's wearing glasses, etc.  What happens is, when you force your imagination to pretend, and you just go along with this process effortlessly, it creates a framework in your imagination in which you are focusing your nonphysical perception.  And that's the whole key to the exercises.

Now you can see why it's not necessary to be in a sleep state.  It's true, you may naturally reach the hypnagogic state but even if you don't it's ok.  I would say that yes, eventually the images and the "seeing" will happen on its own.  But I bet you'll be very surprised when you find out that seeing something isn't what you will get most excited about.  What you'll get most excited about and convinced by is when you start feeling as if you're receiving information just by the feeling of it.  It's "seeing as knowing" and I think it's one of the most important aspects of the skill-building process because it's something that you will inherently trust without question.  Know what I mean?  If you're hung-up on wishing to see, wishing to have visions and pictures, then you might miss the most fundamental and most valuable tool about developing your nonphysical senses, and that's trusting what you feel. 


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Re: Perception
Reply #14 - Jan 16th, 2017 at 4:13am
 
Thank you for the tips Vicky. I will use them when practicing retrievals.

Yes i am able to 'see and hear'  imagined stories or past memories. But somehow it is more clear when i have my eyes open.  I can only speculate that this could be a belief that says “when eyes are closed i can see only darkness”.

This gives some sense now, because i have already found when in OBE state that often my eyes are often closed down and i muss pry them open with fingers. Feels like glued or very tired.  I still dont know what else causes the weird eye tiredness in OBE when the whole body feels refreshed, light as feather and without any pain.
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