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The Most Compelling Evidence? (Read 19437 times)
heisenberg69
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Re: The Most Compelling Evidence?
Reply #45 - Jun 6th, 2016 at 4:14pm
 
I've just finished reading Erlandur Haraldsson and Loftur Gissurarson's book about Indridi Indridason, the Icelandic Physical medium. I would say that it provides pretty strong afterlife evidence. Indridison (1883-1912) had a career cut short by TB but in his short career ( 1905-1909) was a very impressive medium. He produced a great variety of phenomena including interestingly a dematerialised arm! They write ' five men searched many times for the missing arm by feeling Indridi's upper body all over.They did this repeatedly, and matches were lit many times during the search, but no one found the arm '(p49).Other phenomena observed included table tilting, autoamtic writing, trance speaking, levitations, olfactuary sensations,apports,independent voices, gusts of wind and materialisations of human forms.

Some of the sessions could however be violent; a flavour of this comes from Haraldur Nielsson’s report from pages 93-94:

‘The medium again started to dress, and having got his trousers on, he once more screamed for help. Mr Brynjolfur had been standing in the outer room, but now rushed to the medium and saw him balancing in the air with his feet towards the window. Mr Brynjolfur took hold of him, pulled him down onto the bed and held him there. He then felt the medium and himself being lifted up.Mr Brynjolfur shouted to Mr Oddgeirsson to help him. Oddgeirsson went into the bedroom, but a chair was hurled at him and fell beside the stove in the outer room. Oddgeirsson moved aside to avoid the chair and went into the bedroom. Brynjolfur was then lying on the medium’s chest. Oddgeirsson lay down on the knees of the medium, whose whole frame was in motion on the bed.Then a bolster, which was under the medium’s pillow, was thrown into the air; it fell on the bedroom floor. Simultaneously the candlesticks which were in the outer room came through the air and were flung down in the bedroom …’

The authors go on to note that the violent phenomena started on 7 December 1907 and ended on 6 January 1908 with a climax on Jan 4th with about 50 occurrences observed and recorded. The violent incidents were attributed to the unhappy spirit of a man named Jon Einarsson who drowned himself in the Westman Islands on 9th October, 1906. The story has a happy ending however in that Jon was in the end pacified through the help of the spirit of Rev. Hallgrimur Petursson (1614-1674) who ‘ brought Jon one level up from the lowest black pit. He was now in lighter spirit. For a while he suffered intolerable fits of remorse and regret over having committed suicide, and for having used his connection with this group for destructive purposes and to harm people’ (p.101). The authors report however that he went  on to become a ‘great friend’ of the medium helping and working with the controls.

Indridisson was investigated by Gudmundar Hannesson, a noted scientist, Professor of Medicine at the University of Iceland and founder of the Icelandic Scientific Society. The previously sceptical Hannesson came to believe in the genuineness of the phenomena who concluded after attending many of the medium’s sessions that ‘You may state as my firm conviction, that the phenomena are unquestionable realities’ (p.203). The book details many of the controls and methods that Prof Hannesson used in his investigations and concludes that Indridisson bears comparison with the best of other physical mediums such as the celebrated DD Home.
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Gman
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Re: The Most Compelling Evidence?
Reply #46 - Jun 8th, 2016 at 12:49am
 
Another great Pair of Posts h69!!...Gman
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heisenberg69
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Re: The Most Compelling Evidence?
Reply #47 - Jun 8th, 2016 at 1:36am
 
Cheers Gman. I find it sad that there is a great deal of evidence out there but but the scientific community , as a whole , either ignores it or dismisses it with token explanations that are very weak and just does'nt account for what's happening.Hopefully that will change.
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heisenberg69
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Re: The Most Compelling Evidence?
Reply #48 - Jun 15th, 2016 at 2:43pm
 
One of the most compelling NDE accounts I have read about is that of Anita Moorjani in her book ‘Dying to be Me’. In this book she charts how she went from late stage terminal cancer (lymphoma stage 4B) to a complete recovery after an NDE. This is an extract from an account written by oncologist Dr Peter Ko from Anita’s medical notes (p.99)(Anita reports that Ko's first words to her on reading her notes were 'Lady, whichever way I look at it, you should be dead!'p.97);

‘The morning of February 2 found her unable to get out of bed; her entire face, neck, and left arm were swollen like a balloon. Her eyes were swollen shut …. all due to compromised venous damage from her head and neck, by massively enlarged and matted lymph nodes. She was gasping for breath as a result of massive pleural effusion bilaterally, despite using supplemental home oxygen. Feeling utterly helpless, her husband and mother called her family doctor for help, who urged them to get her to hospital right away. There, an oncologist was alerted, and was shocked by the shape Anita was in. Another oncologist was summoned due to the difficult decisions she presented .Several other consultants were called in to address different failing organ systems.’

From this state of multiple organ Anita fell into a coma during which she experienced her NDE. On the evening Feb 3 she woke up and declared to her family she would be ok. It seems that one of her hardest tasks was to convince her medical team that she was now cancer free and did’nt require further treatment, as they insisted on performing more biopsies before finally being convinced that she was cancer free.

‘My records confirmed that I had tumours the size of lemons throughout my body, from the base of my skull all around my neck, armpits, and chest, all the way down to my abdomen .But several days later, there was at least a 70 percent reduction in their size. He’s curious as to how it was possible for billions of cancer cells to leave my body so quickly when the organs were failing.
(p.102)’

In addition to the miraculous healing there was veridical support to her NDE as well.
‘Over the following days, I was slowly able to tell my family what had happened in the other realm, and I also described a lot of things that had taken place while I was in the coma. I was able to relay to my awestruck family almost verbatim, some of the conversations that had occurred not only around me, but also outside the room, down the hall, and in the waiting areas of the hospital. I could describe many of the procedures I’d undergone, and I identified the doctors and nurses who’d performed them, to the surprise of everyone around’.

But of more profound significance to Anita was the profound change in outlook which occurred after the NDE as she came to understand the part that her previous fears had had in the genesis of her cancer and the new insights she had gained into the nature of existence and her part in it.

This account demonstrates how poorly conventional science accounts for NDEs, assuming the case is not simply ignored. The complete recovery would have to be accounted as ‘just’ a case of spontaneous remission, the veridical information would be dismissed as ‘lucky’ guesses and the profound insights and complete change of life outlook would be put down to a ‘feel good factor’ from the release of endorphins from the health crisis. It would have to do this because mainstream science has no other model to explain it with. The alternative explanation, that the healing had a non-physical basis, would be dismissed as fantastical.
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Vicky
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Re: The Most Compelling Evidence?
Reply #49 - Jun 16th, 2016 at 12:43am
 
For me the most compelling evidence is my own direct experience particularly with OBEs, and then also reading about or talking with someone who has had the same kind of experiences.  I feel more validated when I read or hear about someone describing the same kinds of experiences or the same kinds of perception, although I do respect that a lot of people can have their own unique experiences even if I don't understand it or have a frame of reference for it. 

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heisenberg69
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Re: The Most Compelling Evidence?
Reply #50 - Jun 20th, 2016 at 7:27am
 
Hi Vicky,

how are you? I agree with you that direct personal experience is the best evidence but was aiming more at rationalist/scientific types who might be passing visitors to this board rather than experienced explorers such as yourself. Such people might dismiss such experiences as simply wishful thinking in their fixed scientific belief system. Objective evidence such as a corroborated spontaneous terminal cancer healing or well controlled medium studies, involving well observed movement of large objects  are hard to dismiss as wishful thinking.

I don't think reading about such things will dramatically change beliefs but it might produce a few cracks to make more meaningful personal experiences likely. At least they won't harm the chances anyway! But generally I agree with you that personal experiences are the best validation of the non-physical.

D
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