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9/11 evidence against fed gov account-for Rondele (Read 7275 times)
Justin
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9/11 evidence against fed gov account-for Rondele
Apr 21st, 2016 at 9:50pm
 
   Contrary to Rondele's insinuations that only a small minority of mentally imbalanced people question the federal government's official account, according to progressing polls over time, more and more are starting to question the official account.* 

   One of the most obviously damning pieces of evidence against the official "explanation" is that Tower 7 was not hit by a plane, and yet collapsed extremely and unusually quickly and with little overall resistance.

    This is completely against all physics understanding.  Watching a video of it, so clearly brings to mind a controlled demolition type staged event. 

  The 2nd most damning piece of evidence against the official account is that advanced, nano based, active and non reacted thermetic material was found in the rubble.  This particular form of thermite was not known to exist before being found at the site.  After being examined extensively by Dr. Niel Harrit (and others), someone extensively educated and experienced in chemistry, he tentatively suggested that a major military-industrial source might be capable of creating such an advanced thermetic material 

*Re: polls, here are a couple of links to look at. 

http://rethink911.org/news/new-poll-finds-most-americans-open-to-alternative-911...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polls_about_9/11_conspiracy_theories

  In another post, we will address probable motive for facilitating such a semi or full false flag event.
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Justin
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Re: 9/11 evidence against fed gov account-for Rondele
Reply #1 - Apr 21st, 2016 at 10:56pm
 
            The Issue of Probable Motive

When a criminal justice team investigates a serious criminal act, they try to establish probable motive in relation to potential suspects. What did the suspects have to gain from possibly committing X crime.

  With 9/11, we have a very interesting confluence of circumstantial evidence.  Even before there was an official Bush jr. Administration, some of the key members of same, were involved in writing up a document talking about invading, among other countries, Iraq. 

   This was later confirmed when General Wesley Clark, came forward and talked about an interaction with a senior team in said administration and a memo that came from Rumsfeld office.  What was discussed, was a desire to invade 7 countries, including Iraq, within 5 years. 

   But there was no real justification to do so. Not long after 9/11, the US federal government and much of the mainstream media, started to talk about the issue of Iraq.  Bush et al used 9/11, along with supposed WMD's, to drum up American anger and support to go to war with Iraq. 

  Sadly, it worked, and worked rather well. Many people fell for the WMD fiction and the emotional appeal of connecting 9/11 somehow with Saddam Hussein despite no evidence to directly link them.  Even evidence linking Osama Bin Laden was tenuous, and in the earliest declaration by Bin Laden, he denied that he and his group had anything to do with those attacks.  If he and his group had committed it, they would have proudly declared such a deadly blow to the great Satan.

     It was all so convenient, and the Bush admin got the war they wanted so desperately and had been talking about and planning for years, even before Bush Jr. was elected President. 

   Probable motive is more than established. Lest we forget, it is documented fact that the US federal government, has partaken in false flag/lies/cover up events before.  Perhaps the most well known is the Gulf of Tonkin incident just previous to US involvement in the Vietnam war--another badly planned, executed, and unjust war to try to further selfish, US interests as well as profit the military industrial complex. 

   To understand the kind of mindsets, personalities, and general psychology of those that could and would do such things to people, you have to research and understand well the mind set of that group of humans that has been labeled psychopathic, sociopathic, or under the umbrella term--Antisocial Personality Disorder. 

  All three labels are at their core, quite similar, and deal with a rare percentage of humans that completely lack emotionally felt empathy, conscience, and belief in ethics or morality.  Such mind sets seem almost impossible and highly alien to most people.  It too closely resembles the concept of blatant evil, and people try to explain it away with supposed causes like abusive childhoods, etc (contrary to what one of the foremost researchers in this area, Dr. Robert D. Hare, has concluded from research.  He talks about young children, raised along side normal/healthy siblings, in a good environment that show clear psychopathic traits and tendencies.)

   Despite mainstream media pushed myths, the people that fall under this spectrum, are not all serial killers or the like.  According to research, they are just as likely to be found, quite well hidden, in professions or areas such as politics, police-military, corporate upper hierarchy/echelons, lawyers, surgeons, media, etc. 

  They innately gravitate to positions of power and authority over others, as well as being attached to financial wealth, "superior" social status, and all things that spiritual teachers like Yeshua tried to minimize the importance of. 

    Bob Monroe referred to them in the first biography about him, as the physical life addicts that constantly cycle in and out of lifetimes, usually seeking material power and influence. 

  Edgar Cayce referred to them as the "Sons of Belial", which is a biblically related term.  He said they were responsible, in various different major cycles, for much destruction and imbalance within different civilizations and societies. 

   Tom Campbell refers to them as the human form/version of the "anti-rats" that try to lessen entropy in negative, non Love based, power oriented, controlling ways. 

  And psychologists, as mentioned, refer to them as psychopaths, sociopaths, or ASPD. 

    Whatever their origin or cause, they are very real, and they cause much harm to the society around them, much like pathogenic viruses or parasites that feed off a host that is in every way very different. 

  Considering Yeshua's extremely strong and rebuking words to some of the Pharisees, Sadducee's, etc, it's likely that he was addressing some folks that he perceived where in the same conceptual category. 

  Such consciousnesses, when in and out of human form, lack almost all connection to Love and Light. They are capable of any degree of harm to others, as they truly just don't care a whit one way or another. A fellow human being is nothing but an unimportant number to them. 

   

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Justin
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Re: 9/11 evidence against fed gov account-for Rondele
Reply #2 - Apr 21st, 2016 at 11:09pm
 
  One of the best and most credible sites online that i've found dealing with this subject is www.consensus911.org

Here is a copy and paste from their "about us" page (after this post, i will be periodically updating this thread with excerpts from this site, and possibly info from other links and/or videos):

            “'September 11, 2001 seems destined to be the watershed event of our lives and the greatest test for our democracy in our lifetimes. The evidence of government complicity in the lead-up to the events, the failure to respond during the event, and the astounding lack of any meaningful investigation afterwards, as well as the ignoring of evidence turned up by others that renders the official explanation impossible, may signal the end of the American experiment. It has been used to justify all manner of measures to legalize repression at home and as a pretext for behaving as an aggressive empire abroad. Until we demand an independent, honest, and thorough investigation and accountability for those whose action and inaction led to those events and the cover-up, our republic and our Constitution remain in the gravest danger.'

Lt. Col. Shelton F. Lankford, US Marine Corps (ret.)


The Purpose of the 9/11 Consensus Panel

The purpose of the 9/11 Consensus Panel is to provide the world with a clear statement, based on expert independent opinion, of some of the best evidence opposing the official narrative about 9/11.

The goal of the Consensus Panel is to provide a ready source of evidence-based research to any investigation that may be undertaken by the public, the media, academia, or any other investigative body or institution.


The Authority of the 9/11 Consensus Panel


The Consensus Points were derived from a Delphi survey of over 20 expert panelists, who, blind to each other’s identities and responses, ranked each proposed point on a scale of 1-6 through three rounds of review and feedback.

The Delphi Method is a standard consensus tool which uses an established methodology to advance scientific knowledge in fields such as medicine.
The ranked Consensus Points have thus achieved at least 90% agreement by over 20 people. (This is considered a high percentage in scientific literature.)

Together with the professional video-clip accompanying each Point, this controlled survey of Panel Members should help to reduce the confusion and controversy concerning the events of 9/11, and to thereby embolden the media to deal with both sides of the issue.

The Consensus Points are also supported by a comprehensive list of documented references in the form of witness testimonies, oral histories of firefighters, early newspaper and television reports, and scholarly books and articles.


@consensus911"
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Re: 9/11 evidence against fed gov account-for Rondele
Reply #3 - Apr 22nd, 2016 at 1:11pm
 
If a person truly wants to have an open mind about this, perhaps they should consider this factor.

The speed in which the buildings fell. Even if something such as a lack of building integrity and the weight of each building caused each building to fall, how did they fall so quickly? They fell at about the same speed as an unobstructed object. How could this take place when a lot of underlying architecture had to be cleared away? If one watches a video of building 7 collapsing (no airplanes flew into this building), it wasn't engulfed within flames, yet it fell so easilly and quickly. How?

Seriously, does one have to be some sort of left wing nutcase in order to wonder about the above? Perhaps some people wonder about this because they aren't afraid to question. I would question this regardless of who was president at the time.

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Justin
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Re: 9/11 evidence against fed gov account-for Rondele
Reply #4 - Apr 22nd, 2016 at 10:52pm
 
  Re: the left wing comment, the interesting thing, is that there are plenty of people from both political sides, right wing and left wing, that now question the official account. 

    I'm going to start posting, each day, 3 parts of the 46 best evidence points (taken from the site link i posted earlier) against the official account. 

  Here is the the outline/index--excerpted from site/link: 
http://www.consensus911.org/the-911-consensus-points/

"The 9/11 Consensus Points

Factual Evidence Contradicts the 9/11 Story


The official account of the events of September 11, 2001, has been used:

to justify the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, which have resulted in the deaths of over a million people; [1]
to authorize torture, military tribunals, and extraordinary rendition; and
to suspend freedoms guaranteed by the American Constitution such as habeas corpus in the USA, and similar freedoms in Canada, the UK, and other countries.
The official claims regarding 9/11 are contradicted by facts that have been validated by a scientific consensus process, and which include the following points of “best evidence”.

The 46 Consensus Points are divided into the ten categories below, which in turn link to the individual 46 points:"

  I decided to erase the rest of this page because it's unnecessarily long and only deals with the headers, and not the evidence itself.  Refer to the link above to see the rest of this page.

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« Last Edit: Apr 23rd, 2016 at 11:05am by N/A »  
 
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Justin
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Re: 9/11 evidence against fed gov account-for Rondele
Reply #5 - Apr 22nd, 2016 at 10:57pm
 
Excerpted from site/link:
http://www.consensus911.org/point-g-1/

"Point G-1: A Claim Regarding Osama bin Laden

The Official Account
Osama bin Laden was responsible [1] for the 9/11 attacks.

The Best Evidence
The FBI did not list 9/11 [2] as one of the terrorist acts for which Osama bin Laden was wanted.

When asked why, Rex Tomb, when he was the head of investigative publicity for the FBI, stated [3] that the FBI had no hard evidence [4] connecting Bin Laden to 9/11.

Also, although Secretary of State Colin Powell, British Prime Minister Tony Blair, and the 9/11 Commission promised [5] to provide evidence of Bin Laden’s responsibility for the 9/11 attacks, they also failed. [6]


References for Point G-1
[1]
The 9/11 Commission Report, 2004
[2]
Federal Bureau of Investigation, “Most Wanted Terrorists.”
[3]
Ed Haas, “FBI says, ‘No Hard Evidence Connecting Bin Laden to 9/11’” Muckraker Report, June 6, 2006.
[4]
Federal German Judge Dieter Deiseroth, in a December 2009 statement, stated that no independent court has verified the evidence against bin Laden.
“Bush rejects Taliban offer to hand Bin Laden over,” Guardian, October 14, 2001. The Taliban said they would turn bin Laden over if the US provided evidence of his guilt.
“Taliban Met With U.S. Often: Talks centered on ways to hand over bin Laden,” Washington Post, October 29, 2001. The Taliban asked for evidence of bin Laden’s guilt but it was not forthcoming.
“The investigation and the evidence,” BBC News, October 5, 2001. “There is no direct evidence in the public domain linking Osama Bin Laden to the 11 September attacks.”
[5]
Powell: “Meet the Press,” NBC, September 23, 2001.
Blair: Tony Blair: Office of the Prime Minister, “Responsibility for the Terrorist Atrocities in the United States,” BBC News, October 4, 2001.
[6]
Powell: “Remarks by the President, Secretary of the Treasury O’Neill and Secretary of State Powell on Executive Order,” White House, September 24, 2001.
Seymour M. Hersh, “What Went Wrong: The C.I.A. and the Failure of
American Intelligence,” New Yorker, October 1, 2001.
Blair: Tony Blair: Office of the Prime Minister, “Responsibility for the Terrorist Atrocities in the United States,” BBC News, October 4, 2001. The government’s document stated that it “does not purport to provide a prosecutable case against Osama Bin Laden in a court of law.”
9/11 Commission Report (2004). All statements of bin Laden’s responsibility were based on interrogations of KSM [Khalid Sheikh Mohammed], under torture. See 9/11 Commission Report notes at Ch. 5, notes 1, 10, 11, 16, 32, 40, and 41."
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Justin
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Re: 9/11 evidence against fed gov account-for Rondele
Reply #6 - Apr 22nd, 2016 at 11:13pm
 
Excerpted from site/link:
http://www.consensus911.org/point-g-2/

"Point G-2: A Claim that there was No Insider Trading in Put
Point G-2: Options before September 11, 2001
<< Previous Point, Next Point >>

Introduction
In the first month after 9/11, there was rather widespread commentary in the press that persons had made enormous profits from foreknowledge of the attacks. [1]

The Official Account
In 2004, The 9/11 Commission Report wrote: “Highly publicized allegations of insider trading in advance of 9/11” have been made, and there was “[s]ome unusual trading” involving “put options – investments that pay off only when a stock drops in price.” [2] However, the Commission said: “Exhaustive investigations by the Securities and Exchange Commission, FBI, and other agencies have uncovered no evidence that anyone with advance knowledge of the attacks profited through securities transactions.” [3]
For example, “the volume of put options … surged in the parent companies of United Airlines on September 6 and American airlines on September 10,” and this was “highly suspicious trading on its face.” However, “further investigation has revealed that the trading had no connections with 9/11. A single U.S.-based institutional investor with no conceivable ties to al Qaeda purchased 95 percent of the UAL puts on September 6 as part of a trading strategy that also included buying 115,000 shares of American on September 10.” [4]

The Best Evidence
There are three reasons to reject the 9/11 Commission’s claim that it refuted the belief that huge profits were gained through foreknowledge of the 9/11 attacks.

First, the 9/11 Commission did not show that there was no insider trading based on foreknowledge about the 9/11 events, but simply asserted this.

Second, the Commission used a circular argument with regard to United Airlines: In stating that most of the United Airlines put options were purchased by an investor “with no conceivable ties to al Qaeda,” the Commission simply presupposed that 9/11 was planned and executed solely by al-Qaeda and that no one else had any advance knowledge of the attacks.

Third, econometricians – who use statistical analyses to produce objective results in economics – have published studies showing the occurrence of very unusual trades shortly before 9/11 that ensured high profits, thereby revealing high probabilities of insider trading.

For example, an analysis of the purchases of put options on United and American Airlines between the 5th and 10th of September, 2001, carried out by a University of Illinois professor of finance and published in a well-established journal, concluded that the evidence was “consistent with the terrorists or their associates having traded ahead of the September 11 attacks.” [5]
Another econometric study published in a well-respected journal concluded that “abnormal trading volumes … provide credible circumstantial evidence in support of the insider trading claim.” [6]
A more comprehensive study, by professors at the Swiss Finance Institute and the Swiss Banking Institute, [7] shows that 15 million dollars were likely obtained by insiders using put options for Boeing, Merrill Lynch, J.P. Morgan, Citigroup, and Bank of America stocks. [8]
These econometric investigations, which appeared in 2006, 2010, and 2011, have not been challenged in any professional or governmental responses.

<< Previous Point, Next Point >>

References for Point G-2
[1]
For example, the BBC one week after 9/11 stated: “The City watchdog, the Financial Services Authority, has launched an inquiry into unusual share price movements in London before last week’s atrocities. The [London] Times reports that the American authorities are investigating unusually large sales of shares in airlines and insurance companies. There are said to be suspicions that the shares were sold by people who knew about the impending attacks” (“Papers Salute New York Stock Exchange,” BBC News, 18 Tuesday September, 2001.
[2]
The 9/11 Commission Report, 499 n. 130.
[3]
Ibid., 172.
[4]
Ibid., 499, n. 130.
[5]
Allen M. Poteshman, “Unusual Option Market Activity and the Terrorist Attacks of September 11, 2001,” Journal of Business, 79 (2006): 1703-26; (backup of pdf).
[6]
Wing-Keung Wong, Howard E. Thompson, and Kweehong, Teh, “Was there Abnormal Trading in the S&P 500 Index Options Prior to the September 11 Attacks?” Multinational Finance Journal 15/1-2 (2011): 1-46, at 43.
[7]
Marc Chesney, Remo Crameri, and Loriano Mancini, “Detecting Informed Trading Activities in the Options Markets,” Swiss Finance Institute Research Paper, 7 September 2011.
[8]
See Table 2 of Paul Zarembka, “Evidence of Insider Trading Before September 11th Re-examined,” International Hearings on the Events of September 11, 2001, 8-11 September 2011, Ryerson University, Toronto."
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Justin
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Re: 9/11 evidence against fed gov account-for Rondele
Reply #7 - Apr 23rd, 2016 at 10:55am
 
Excerpted from site/link:
http://www.consensus911.org/point-tt-1/

"Point TT-1: A Claim about the Destruction of the Twin Towers:
Point TT-1: Impact, Jet Fuel, and Fire Only

The Official Account
The Twin Towers were brought down by airplane impacts, jet fuel, and office fires. [1]


The Best Evidence
Experience, based on physical observation and scientific knowledge, shows that office fires, even with the aid of jet fuel, could not have reached temperatures greater than 1,800 degrees Fahrenheit (1,000 degrees Celsius).

But multiple scientific reports [2] show that metals in the Twin Towers melted. These metals included steel, iron, and molybdenum – which normally do not melt until they reach 2,700°F (1482°C), 2,800°F (1538°C), and 4,753°F (2,623°C), respectively


References for Point TT-1
[1]
NIST NCSTAR 1, Final Report on the Collapse of the World Trade Center Towers, September 2005, p. 15. Regarding airplane impacts, see pp. 150-51; Jet fuel, pp. 24, 42; Fires, pp. 91, 127, 183.
[2]
RJ Lee Group, “WTC Dust Signature Report: Composition and Morphology,” December 2003, p. 21.
RJ Lee Group, “Expert Report: WTC Dust Signature,” May 2004, p. 12.

Heather A. Lowers and Gregory P. Meeker, US Geological Survey, US Department of the Interior, “Particle Atlas of World Trade Center Dust,” 2005.

Steven E. Jones et al., “Extremely high temperatures during the World Trade Center destruction,” Journal of 9/11 Studies 19 (January 2008).

For discussion and summary, see David Ray Griffin, The Mysterious Collapse of World Trade Center 7, pp. 39-44."
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Justin
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Re: 9/11 evidence against fed gov account-for Rondele
Reply #8 - Apr 23rd, 2016 at 11:01am
 
Excerpted from site/link:
http://www.consensus911.org/point-tt-2/

"Point TT-2: A Claim about the Destruction of the Twin Towers:
Point TT-2: Impact, Fire, and Gravity Only

The Official Account
The Twin Towers were destroyed by three and only three causes: the impacts of the airliners, the resulting fires, and gravity. [1]

The Best Evidence
During the destruction of the Twin Towers, huge sections of the perimeter steel columns, weighing many tons, were ejected horizontally as far as 500 to 600 feet, as seen in multiple photographs [2] and maps. [3]

These high-speed ejections of heavy structural members cannot be explained by the fires, the pull of gravity, or the airplane impacts (which had occurred about an hour earlier).

Human bone fragments [4] approximately 1 cm long were found in abundance on the roof of the Deutsche Bank following the Towers’ destruction, which further points to the use of explosives. Pancaking or tamping of floors from above would tend to trap bodies, not hurl splintered bones over 500 feet horizontally.


References for Point TT-2
[1]
NIST NCSTAR 1, Final Report on the Collapse of the World Trade Center Towers, September 2005, 144-45 (pdf: 194-5).
[2]
The Scientists for 9/11 Truth website shows a photo of “Impaled Steel Columns at the 20th Floor of the World Financial Center Building 3 (WFC3).”

See also video one and video two showing horizontal ejections.

[3]
In addition to WFC3 (American Express Building), the FEMA Report, “7. Peripheral Buildings”, shows that similar debris hit the Winter Gardens, 500-600 feet distant, and includes a map showing the location of these buildings.
[4]
“Remains bring hope, frustration for 9/11 families,” USA Today, April 20, 2006."
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Justin
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Re: 9/11 evidence against fed gov account-for Rondele
Reply #9 - Apr 23rd, 2016 at 11:02am
 
Excerpted from site/link:
http://www.consensus911.org/point-tt-3/

"Point TT-3: A Claim Excluding Explosions in the Twin Towers

The Official Account
NIST wrote as if no one – including members of the Fire Department of New York – gave evidence of explosions in the Twin Towers. [1]
The Best Evidence
Over 100 of the roughly 500 members of the FDNY who were at the site that day reported [2] what they described as explosions in the Twin Towers. Similar reports [3] were given by journalists, police officers, and WTC employees.
<< Previous Point, Next Point >>

References for Point TT-3
[1]
NIST, “Answers to Frequently Asked Questions,” August 30, 2006 (8/6/2006), Question 2.
[2]
Graeme MacQueen, “118 Witnesses: The Firefighters’ Testimony to Explosions in the Twin Towers,” Journal of 9/11 Studies, Vol. 2, August 2006, 47-106.
[3]
Reports by journalists, police officers, WTC employees are summarized here: David Ray Griffin, “Explosive Testimony: Revelations about the Twin Towers in the 9/11 Oral Histories,” 911Truth.org, January 18, 2006."
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Justin
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Re: 9/11 evidence against fed gov account-for Rondele
Reply #10 - Apr 25th, 2016 at 11:01pm
 
Excerpted from site/link:
http://www.consensus911.org/point-tt-4/

"The Official Account
On 9/11, the Twin Towers came down because of damage produced by the impact of the planes combined with fires ignited by the jet fuel. After burning for 101 and 56 minutes, respectively, the north and south towers came down rapidly but without the aid of explosives. [1]

The Best Evidence
The Twin Towers were built [2] to withstand the impacts of airliners having approximately the size and speed of those that struck them. And office fires, even if fed by jet fuel (which is essentially kerosene), could not have weakened [3] the steel structure of these buildings sufficiently to collapse as suddenly as they did.

Only the top sections of these buildings were damaged by the impacts and the resulting fires, whereas their steel structures, much heavier towards the base, were like pyramids [4] in terms of strength. So the official account, which ruled out explosives, cannot explain why these buildings completely collapsed.


References for Point TT-4
[1]
“NIST found no corroborating evidence for alternative hypotheses suggesting that the WTC towers were brought down by controlled demolition using explosives planted prior to September 11, 2001.” NIST NCSTAR 1, Final Report on the Collapse of the World Trade Center Towers, September 2005, p. xxxviii.
[2]
Federal Emergency Management Agency, (2002), World Trade Center Building Performance Study: Data Collection, Preliminary Observations, and Recommendations.
“Towers collapse shocks engineers,” MedServ, 9/11/01.

“Twin Towers Engineered To Withstand Jet Collision,” Seattle Times, February 2, 1993.

[3]
“Twin Tower Fires Not Hot Enough to Melt or Weaken Steel!” YouTube: 9/11 Truth Videos
[4]
Architect Mario Salvadori explains: “The load on the columns increases with the number of floors of the building, and their weight must vary in the same proportion.” (Dr. Mario Salvadori, “Why Buildings Stand Up,” New York: W.W. Norton, 1980, p. 117). The lower the floors, the stronger the steel structures. So even if the impacts and fires had caused the top sections of these buildings to collapse, the collapses would have been arrested by the lower floors."
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Justin
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Re: 9/11 evidence against fed gov account-for Rondele
Reply #11 - Apr 25th, 2016 at 11:03pm
 
Excerpted from site/link:
http://www.consensus911.org/point-tt-5/

"Point TT-5: The Claim that the World Trade Center Dust
Point TT-5: Contained No Thermitic Materials

The Official Account
Although NIST did not perform any tests [1] to determine whether there were incendiaries (such as thermite) or explosives (such as RDX and nanothermite) in the WTC dust, it claimed [2] that such materials were not present.

The Best Evidence
Unreacted nanothermitic material, “which can be tailored [3] to behave as an incendiary (like ordinary thermite), or as an explosive,” [4] was found in four independently collected [5] samples of the WTC dust (as reported [6] in a multi-author paper in a peer-reviewed journal).

References for Point TT-5
[1]
NIST, Answers to Frequently Asked Questions (August 30, 2006), Question 12.
[2]
NIST conducted only a hypothetical experiment and “found no evidence of any blast events.” NIST NCSTAR 1-9, Structural Fire Response and Probable Collapse Sequence of World Trade Center Building 7, Draft for Public Comment, August 2008, p. 357.
[3]
The quoted phrase is from Dr. Niels Harrit, Associate Professor of Chemistry at the Nano-Science Center, University of Copenhagen. E-mail to Elizabeth Woodworth, copied to Dr. David Ray Griffin, June 19, 2011.
[4]
The Amptiac Quarterly Newsletter from the Spring of 2002 said: “The 221st National Meeting of the American Chemical Society held during April 2001 in San Diego featured a symposium on Defense Applications of Nanomaterials. One of the 4 sessions was titled Nanoenergetics. This session featured speakers from government labs (DOD and DOE) and academia. … A number of topics were covered, including … Metastable Intermolecular Composites (MICs), sol-gels, and structural nanomaterials. … At this point in time, all of the military services and some DOE and academic laboratories have active R&D programs aimed at exploiting the unique properties of nanomaterials that have potential to be used in energetic formulations for advanced explosives and propellant applications. … Nanomaterials, especially nanoenergetics, could be used for improving components of munitions. … Nanoenergetics hold promise as useful ingredients for the thermobaric (TBX) and TBX-like weapons, particularly due to their high degree of tailorability with regards to energy release and impulse management.” (pp. 43-44).
[5]
Dr. Steven Jones discusses the “chain of custody” of the dust samples in “9/11: Explosive Testimony Exclusive, Part 1,” at 3:30 and 7:58 minutes, and at 0 minutes at Part 2 of 2.
[6]
Niels H. Harrit, Jeffrey Farrer, Steven E. Jones, Kevin R. Ryan, Frank M. Legge, Daniel Farnsworth, Gregg Roberts, James R. Gourley, and Bradley R. Larsen, “Active Thermitic Material Observed in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe,” The Open Chemical Physics Journal, 2009, 2: 7-31."
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Re: 9/11 evidence against fed gov account-for Rondele
Reply #12 - Apr 25th, 2016 at 11:12pm
 
Excerpted from site/link:
http://www.consensus911.org/point-tt-6/
  This one is a long one, but well worth reading. The amount of bold face lying that went on with the "investigation" is ridiculous and almost unbelievable. It shows quite a high degree of corruption involved at the highest levels.

"Point TT-6: The Claim that There Was No Molten Steel or Iron in the WTC
Point TT-6: Buildings


Introduction
According to the official account, the Twin Towers were brought down by airplane impacts and fire, and in the case of WTC 7, by fire alone. One implication of this account is that the destruction would have produced no molten steel or molten iron (which is produced in a thermite reaction). Structural steel does not begin to melt until it reaches about 1,482°C (2,700°F), and iron does not melt until it reaches 1,538°C (2,800°F). [1] The fires ignited by the plane crashes, even with the help of jet fuel, could not have been hotter than 1,000°C (1,832°F), meaning that they would have been at least 1000 degrees F. cooler than what would be necessary to melt steel/iron. The presence of molten steel or iron, therefore, would have implied that the building steel had been melted by something other than the airplane impacts and the resulting fires.


The Official Account
There is no evidence that any molten steel or iron was found in any of the WTC buildings.

The NIST report showed that the Twin Towers were brought down by the airplane impacts and the resulting fires, which were ignited by jet fuel. [2] WTC 7, which was not hit by a plane, was brought down by fire alone. [3] There would, therefore, have been no reason for molten steel or iron to have been produced. [4]

Molten steel or iron was not mentioned in The 9/11 Commission Report, [5] the NIST report about the Twin Towers, [6] or the NIST report about WTC 7. [7] This silence about molten steel or iron implies its absence.

The existence of molten steel (or iron) was inexplicitly denied by one of the authors of the NIST reports, engineer John L. Gross. [8] At a lecture at the University of Texas in October, 2006, Gross was asked a question about “a pool of molten steel,” to which he replied:

“Let’s go back to your basic premise that there was a pool of molten steel. I know of absolutely nobody — no eyewitnesses said so, nobody’s produced it.” [9]

In a post-report publication (September 2011), NIST wrote: “NIST investigators and experts from the American Society of Civil Engineers (ASCE) and the Structural Engineers Association of New York (SEONY)—who inspected the WTC steel at the WTC site and the salvage yards—found no evidence that would support the melting of steel in a jet-fuel ignited fire in the towers prior to collapse.”

Moreover, this report said:

“The condition of the steel in the wreckage of the WTC towers (i.e., whether it was in a molten state or not) was irrelevant to the investigation of the collapse since it does not provide any conclusive information on the condition of the steel when the WTC towers were standing.”

Finally, this report said:

“Under certain circumstances it is conceivable for some of the steel in the wreckage to have melted after the buildings collapsed. Any molten steel in the wreckage was more likely due to the high temperature resulting from long exposure to combustion within the pile than to short exposure to fires or explosions while the buildings were standing.” [10]

In summary:

The NIST reports attributed the collapses to jet fueled fires, which were not hot enough to produce molten steel or iron.
There was no evidence for molten steel or iron, and there was no reason to expect it.
Even if there had been molten steel or iron in the debris afterwards, it would have been irrelevant to the cause of the collapses.

The Best Evidence
Not one of those claims can be maintained:

The evidence of molten steel or iron cannot be called “irrelevant,” given the fact that the building fires, as NIST pointed out, cannot explain it. The only explanation NIST suggested was that, if there was molten steel or iron, it would have been “due to the high temperature resulting from long exposure to combustion within the pile.” But NIST claimed that the buildings were brought down by building fires, which at most could have reached 1,000°C (1,832°F.) So the idea that burning debris from these buildings could have reached anywhere close to the temperature needed to melt structural steel (1,482°C, 2,700°F), [11] without the help of explosive or incendiary material, is implausible.
It is also unscientific. Physicist Steven Jones has written: “Are there any examples of buildings toppled by fires or any reason other than deliberate demolition that show large pools of molten metal in the rubble? I have posed this question to numerous engineers and scientists, but so far no examples have emerged. Strange then that three buildings in Manhattan, supposedly brought down finally by fires, all show these large pools of molten metal in their basements post-collapse on 9-11-2001. It would be interesting if underground fires could somehow produce large pools of molten steel, for example, but then there should be historical examples of this effect since there have been many large fires in numerous buildings. It is not enough to argue hypothetically that fires could possibly cause all three pools of orange-hot molten metal.” The fact that the pools of metal had an orange color was crucial, Jones explained, because something had raised the temperature of iron to more than 2,000°C (3,632°F). [12]

There were two types of evidence for molten steel or iron in the debris:
Physical evidence, which was presented in a 2002 report by FEMA and elsewhere.
Testimonial evidence from many credible witnesses, including firefighters and other professionals.

I. Physical Evidence

I-A. The 2002 FEMA Report
New York Times journalist James Glanz, writing near the end of 2001 about the collapse of WTC 7, reported that some engineers said that a “combination of an uncontrolled fire and the structural damage might have been able to bring the building down,” but that this “would not explain,” according to Dr. Barnett, “steel members in the debris pile that appear to have been partly evaporated in extraordinarily high temperatures.” [13]
Glanz was referring to Jonathan Barnett, a professor of fire protection engineering at the Worcester Polytechnic Institute (WPI). Early in 2002, Barnett and two WPI colleagues published an analysis of a section of steel from one of the Twin Towers, along with sections from WTC 7, as an appendix to FEMA’s 2002 World Trade Center Building Performance Study. [14] Their discoveries were also reported in a WPI article entitled “The ‘Deep Mystery’ of Melted Steel,” which said:

“[S]teel – which has a melting point of 2,800 degrees Fahrenheit [1538°C] – may weaken and bend, but does not melt during an ordinary office fire. Yet metallurgical studies on WTC steel brought back to WPI reveal that a novel phenomenon – called a eutectic reaction – occurred at the surface, causing intergranular melting capable of turning a solid steel girder into Swiss cheese.”

Stating that the New York Times called these findings “perhaps the deepest mystery uncovered in the investigation,” the article added:

“A one-inch column has been reduced to half-inch thickness. Its edges – which are curled like a paper scroll – have been thinned to almost razor sharpness. Gaping holes – some larger than a silver dollar – let light shine through a formerly solid steel flange. This Swiss cheese appearance shocked all of the fire-wise professors, who expected to see distortion and bending – but not holes.” [15]

In discussing “the deepest mystery,” the New York Times story said: “The steel apparently melted away, but no fire in any of the buildings was believed to be hot enough to melt steel outright.” [16] That was an understatement, because a building fire, even with a perfect mixture of air and fuel, could at most reach 1,000°C (1,832°F). [17] In fact, Professor Thomas Eagar of MIT estimated that the fires were “probably only about 1,200 or 1,300°F [648 or 704°C].” [18]

I-B. The RJ Lee Report

In May 2004, the RJ Lee Group issued a report, entitled “WTC Dust Signature,” at the request of the Deutsche Bank, in order to prove (to its insurance company) that the building was “pervasively contaminated with WTC Dust, unique to the WTC Event.” [19] The report listed five elements in this signature, one of which was: “Spherical iron and spherical or vesicular silicate particles that result from exposure to high temperature.” [20] This was the only statement about iron’s being modified by high temperature in this 2004 report.
However, RJ Lee had written an earlier report in 2003, entitled “WTC Dust Signature Report,” which contained much more about iron. It said: “Particles of materials that had been modified by exposure to high temperature, such as spherical particles of iron and silicates, are common in WTC Dust … but are not common in ‘normal’ interior office dust.” [21] This 2003 version of the report even pointed out that, whereas iron particles constitute only 0.04 percent of normal building dust, they constituted an enormous amount of the WTC dust: 5.87 percent (meaning that there was almost 1,500 times more iron in the dust than normal). [22] This earlier version also explicitly stated that iron and other metals were “melted during the WTC Event, producing spherical metallic particles.” [23]

In addition, whereas the 2004 report did not use the word “vaporize,” this earlier version spoke of temperatures “at which lead would have undergone vaporization.” [24] Accordingly, whereas the 2004 report referred to “high temperatures,” the earlier report indicated that the temperatures were not merely high but extremely high, because for lead to boil and hence vaporize, it must be heated to 1,749°C (3,180°F). [25]

I-C. The USGS Report

In 2005, the United States Geological Survey (USGS) published a report entitled “Particle Atlas of World Trade Center Dust,” which was intended to aid the “identification of WTC dust components.” Among the components, it reported, were “metal or metal oxides” (which could not be distinguished by the USGS’s methods). “The primary metal and metal-oxide phases in WTC dust,” the report said, “are Fe-rich [iron-rich] and Zn-rich [zinc-rich] particles.” [26] The report included a micrograph of an “iron-rich sphere.” [27]
These iron-rich spherical particles – or “spherules,” as they are sometimes called – could only come about if iron is melted and then “sprayed into the air so that surface tension draws the molten droplets into near-spherical shapes.” [28]

Accordingly, the USGS report mentioned (without explaining) the existence of particles in the dust that should not have been there, according to the NIST explanation of the collapses.

I-D. Report by the Steven Jones Group

NIST also ignored a third scientific report describing phenomena in the WTC dust that could have been produced only by extremely high temperatures. Entitled, in fact, “Extremely high temperatures during the World Trade Center destruction,” this report, written by Steven Jones and seven other scientists, pointed out the existence of particles in the dust that required even higher temperatures than those implied by the RJ Lee and USGS reports.
Jones and his colleagues performed tests using their own samples of WTC dust, which had been collected shortly after the destruction of the WTC – either very shortly afterwards or from the inside of nearby buildings (which means that the dust could not have been contaminated by clean-up operations at Ground Zero). They reported finding “an abundance of tiny solidified droplets roughly spherical in shape (spherules),” which were primarily “iron-rich … and silicates.” The iron-rich spherules would have required a temperature of 1,538°C (2,800°F). The silicates often contained aluminum, and aluminosilicate spherules, which were found in abundance in the dust, would have required a temperature of 1,450°C (2,652°F). [29]

Iron could not have arisen from the steel alone and should not have been found in the rubble. The iron, which needs to be accounted for, is a byproduct of the thermite reaction.

Still more remarkable, the Jones group reported, was a spherule found in the dust that was not mentioned in USGS’s “Particle Atlas,” and which was obtained only through an FOIA request, namely, “a molybdenum-rich spherule,” which had been observed and studied by the USGS team. This information is remarkable, because molybdenum (Mo) is “known for its extremely high melting point”: 2,623°C (4,753°F). [30] The presence of this molybdenum-rich spherules in the WTC dust was not mentioned by NIST, although it could have learned about it from the article by the Jones group or directly from the USGS.


II. Testimonial Evidence

II-A. Testimony from Firefighters:
New York Fire Department Captain Philip Ruvolo said: “You’d get down below and you’d see molten steel, molten steel, running down the channel rails, like you’re in a foundry, like lava.” [31]
Joe O’Toole, a Bronx firefighter who worked on the rescue and cleanup efforts, reported that one beam lifted from deep below the surface months later, in February 2002, “was dripping from the molten steel.” [32]
New York firefighters recalled in the documentary film Collateral Damages, “heat so intense they encountered rivers of molten steel.” [33]

II-B. Testimony from Other Professionals:

Leslie Robertson, a member of the engineering firm that designed the World Trade Center, said 21 days after the attack: “When we were down at the B1 level, one of the firefighters said, ‘I think you’d be interested in this,’ and they pulled up a big block of concrete and there was a, like a little river of steel, flowing.” [34]
Ron Burger, a public health advisor at the National Center for Environmental Health who arrived at Ground Zero September 12, 2001, said: “Feeling the heat, seeing the molten steel, the layers upon layers of ash, like lava, it reminded me of Mt. St. Helen’s and the thousands who fled that disaster.” [35]
In late fall 2001, Dr. Alison Geyh of the Johns Hopkins School of Public Health reported: “Fires are still actively burning and the smoke is very intense. In some pockets now being uncovered, they are finding molten steel.” [36]
Joe Allbaugh, the Director of FEMA, said in an October 2001 interview on CBS: “It’s just too hot for rescuers to get into [some] areas. So we do not know yet what’s in those areas, other than very hot, molten material.” [37]
Dr. Keith Eaton reported in Structural Engineer: “They showed us many fascinating slides … ranging from molten metal which was still red hot weeks after the event, to 4-inch thick steel plates sheared and bent in the disaster.”
Don Carson, a hazardous materials expert from the National Operating Engineers Union, said six weeks after 9/11: “There are pieces of steel being pulled out from as far as six stories underground that are still cherry red.” [38]
II-C. Testimony from Other Credible Witnesses:

Greg Fuchek, vice president of a company that supplied computer equipment used to identify human remains, reported that “sometimes when a worker would pull a steel beam from the wreckage, the end of the beam would be dripping molten steel.” [39]
Sarah Atlas, of New Jersey’s Task Force One Urban Search and Rescue, arrived at Ground Zero on September 11 and reported that “fires burned and molten steel flowed in the pile of ruins still settling beneath her feet.” [40]
Tom Arterburn, writing in Waste Age, reported that the New York Department of Sanitation removed “everything from molten steel beams to human remains.” [41]

Rebuttal of Official Claims: Summary

The claim that no evidence of any molten steel or iron was found in any of the WTC buildings is strongly refuted by three scientific reports, one from a government agency (USGS).
John Gross’s claim that “no eyewitnesses said” that there was molten steel (or iron) was strongly and repeatedly contradicted.
The claim that molten steel or iron would be irrelevant because it could have been produced in the combustion pile: This would mean claiming, with no scientific evidence and no plausibility, that combustion in an oxygen-starved pile of rubbish could have heated steel to at least 1500°C (2800°F).
With regard to the NIST claim that molten steel or iron is “irrelevant to the investigation of the collapse” because “it does not provide any conclusive information on the condition of the steel when the WTC towers [including WTC 7] were standing”: Given the fact that the molten steel or iron in the debris could not have been produced without incendiaries or explosives, the presence of either of them indicates that some of the steel was melted before, or during, the final moments of the collapses.
With regard to NIST’s statement in its post-report publication that there was no evidence for “the melting of steel in a jet-fuel ignited fire in the towers”: This is a statement that is truly irrelevant. The whole point is that the presence of melted steel and/or iron is an indication that the buildings must have been brought down by something other than fire.

Conclusion
None of the official claims about the non-existence of molten iron or steel in the destroyed WTC buildings withstand scrutiny. The fact that the rubble contained steel or iron that had been melted shows that the buildings were destroyed by something other than fire and airplane impact. Especially dramatic evidence of various types was provided by several facts: that the original RJ Lee report showed that there was almost 1,500 times more iron in the dust than normal; that the rubble contained steel with gaping holes, manifesting a “Swiss cheese appearance” that shocked the three “fire-wise professors” from Worcester Polytechnic Institute; that lead had been vaporized; that molybdenum had been melted; and that the metal pools contained iron that had been heated, as shown by the orange color, above 2,000°C (3,632°F).
When all of this physical evidence is combined with the testimony about explosions from many types of professionals, the claim that the Twin Towers were brought down by nothing other than the airplane impacts and resulting fires is simply not credible.


References for Point TT-6
[1]
On iron, see “Iron” in WebElements: The Periodic Table on the Web. Steel, as an alloy of iron, comes in different grades, with a range of melting points, depending on the percent of carbon (which lowers the melting point), from 1,371°C (2,500°F) to 1,482°C (2,700°F); see “Alloys: Melting Point Chart”.
[2]
NIST NCSTAR 1, Final Report on the Collapse of the World Trade Center Towers, September 2005, p. 15. Regarding airplane impacts, see pp. 150-51; Jet fuel, pp. 24, 42; Fires, pp. 91, 127, 183
[3]
NIST NCSTAR 1A, Final Report on the Collapse of World Trade Center Building 7, November 2008, xxxv. In NIST’s words, the collapse of WTC 7 was “the first known instance of the total collapse of a tall building primarily due to fires.”
[4]
In a post-report publication (September 2011), NIST wrote: “In no instance did NIST report that steel in the WTC towers melted due to the fires. The melting point of steel is about 1,500 degrees Celsius (2,800 degrees Fahrenheit). Normal building fires and hydrocarbon (e.g., jet fuel) fires generate temperatures up to about 1,100 degrees Celsius (2,000 degrees Fahrenheit). NIST reported maximum upper layer air temperatures of about 1,000 degrees Celsius (1,800 degrees Fahrenheit) in the WTC towers (for example, see NCSTAR 1, Figure 6-36).” NIST Engineering Laboratory, “Questions and Answers about the NIST WTC Towers Investigation (Question 15),” September 19, 2011.
[5]
The 9/11 Commission Report, 2004.
[6]
NIST NCSTAR 1-9 Vol. 1, Structural Fire Response and Probable Collapse Sequence of World Trade Center Building 7, Volume 1 and 2, Chapter 8.
[7]
NIST NCSTAR 1A, Final Report on the Collapse of World Trade Center Building 7, Federal Building and Fire Safety Investigation of the World Trade Center Disaster, November 20, 2008.
[8]
Dr. Gross was the Co-Project leader on Structural Fire Response and Collapse Analysis. See “John L. Gross”.
[9]
October 18, 2006 lecture, University of Texas at Austin, on the collapse of the Twin Towers, “Dr. John Gross, N.I.S.T.” Date confirmed here.
[10]
NIST Engineering Laboratory, “Questions and Answers about the NIST WTC Towers Investigation,” (Question 23) September 19, 2011.
[11]
“Iron,” WebElements: The Periodic Table on the Web.
[12]
Steven E. Jones, “Why Indeed Did the World Trade Center Buildings Completely Collapse?” Journal of 9/11 Studies, Vol. 3: September 2006, p. 18.
[13]
James Glanz, “Engineers Suspect Diesel Fuel in Collapse of 7 World Trade Center,” New York Times, November 29, 2001.
[14]
Jonathan Barnett, Ronald R. Biederman, and Richard D. Sisson, Jr., “Limited Metallurgical Examination,” FEMA, World Trade Center Building Performance Study, May 2002, Appendix C.
[15]
Joan Killough-Miller, “The ‘Deep Mystery’ of Melted Steel,” WPI Transformations, Spring 2002.
[16]
James Glanz and Eric Lipton, “A Search for Clues in Towers’ Collapse,” New York Times, February 2, 2002.
[17]
Thomas Eagar and Christopher Musso, “Why Did the World Trade Center Collapse? Science, Engineering, and Speculation,” JOM: Journal of the Minerals, Metals & Materials Society 53/12 (2001), 8-11.
[18]
Thomas Eagar, “The Collapse: An Engineer’s Perspective,” which is part of “Why the Towers Fell,” NOVA, April 30, 2002.
[19]
RJ Lee Group, “Expert Report: WTC Dust Signature,” May 2004, 5.
[20]
Ibid., 11.
[21]
RJ Lee Group, “WTC Dust Signature Report: Composition and Morphology,” December 2003, 5.
[22]
Ibid., 24.
[23]
Ibid., 17.
[24]
Ibid., 21.
[25]
WebElements: “The Periodic Table on the Web.”
[26]
Heather A. Lowers and Gregory P. Meeker, U.S"
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Justin
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Re: 9/11 evidence against fed gov account-for Rondele
Reply #13 - May 1st, 2016 at 12:59pm
 
  I'm confused, we're 6 points in (out of 46) and still no Rondele?

   I was hoping that if some of this info was off and wrong, that he would correct it with more accurate info.  But, only silence. 

  However, even being only 6 points in, it's already looking pretty bad for the official account.  A lot of contradiction, falsity, and non factual reporting from the 9/11 investigative body, politicians, or government employees supporting the official account. 

  You're right Rondele, sometimes silence does say a lot.  If you do happen to partake in this thread, please stick to the facts and pointing out the errors of logic and reasoning, rather than focusing on me or the people that run the site that i'm excerpting from.

  Btw, for the record, i do think that it's possible that some real Islamic terrorist types were involved in the whole thing.  The question is, is were they supported, encouraged, and funded by black op Federal money and connected individuals at all?   

  Likely that question/mystery will never be fully answered. But it's clear that not only did some within or connected to the Federal government have foreknowledge, but they actively assisted.  This is known from the expert demolition style of how the buildings came down (something that would have taken time, pre-planning and special access to the buildings), or commands given to stand down from shooting the airplanes down. 

  That President Bush Jr. himself didn't immediately leave the classroom after being told that a major terrorist attack was taking place, is also highly suspect.  In such a situation, the Secret Service is trained to be and would become very "militarized" and would automatically try to take the President away to a much more secure, safe, and unknown location.   Since it was being broadcast, his exact location was publicly known at the time. 

  So many pieces of the puzzle, just don't fit very well when using holistic logic, unless one questions the official account. 

   To be sure, this thread is not all about 9/11, about Rondele, about Democrats vs Republicans, or myself.  It's about exposing corruption in high places, as this corruption did not end as soon as G.W.B. left office.  In many ways, this corruption has continued under President Obama's office (whom btw, supports the official account and told people to not question it).  It will likely continue no matter who is or isn't elected President.  It's far more entrenched and pervasive than a single figure head/politician. 

  It took massive coordinated effort to pull of 9/11 under the guise of only a terrorist attack from foreign sources, and no doubt elements and individuals from various Federally funded and private groups were involved. There is some evidence that Mossad and Israel connected Zionists were also collaborating (before some people shout prejudice, Zionism is not about the Jewish religion, nor about Hebrew descent--it's a political, national movement, and one that a number of religious Jews both in and out of Israel are quite against. In Israel, the Zionists are the "Neo-Con" faction of their politics, war mongers.  Not all Zionists are Jewish, or of Hebraic descent or from Israel.  Joe Biden was quoted as being a supporter of Zionism, and he does not fall under any of those categories.  An example of a group of Jewish folks against Zionism, http://www.truetorahjews.org/   I stand with and support these Jewish brothers and sisters)    

  Isn't high time that we put our collective feet down, and say "Enough is enough!  No more!" 

  How bad does it have to get before we stand firm and say not in our name and not with our money?   Isn't killing and wounding thousands of people in one's own country, bad enough?
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