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John the Baptist & Elijah-Disk vs Probe? (Read 14636 times)
Justin
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John the Baptist & Elijah-Disk vs Probe?
Aug 8th, 2015 at 5:03pm
 
   In the OT, it's prophesied that Elijah would come before the coming of the Lord. 

  In the NT, some asked John the Baptist if he was Elijah, and he said no. 

  Yet later, after he was murdered, Yeshua implies that John was the OT prophetic fulfillment of Elijah coming again and before the coming of the Lord. 

   There are a few possibilities to consider.  Perhaps it was all symbolic/allegorical to begin with?  John and Elijah had certain similarities and a similar role. 

  Another possibility is that it was meant that Elijah would directly reincarnate as John the Baptist, but John not being as expanded and aware as Yeshua wasn't aware of his spiritual past and history while Yeshua was.

  But in my mind (rather intuition), what's most likely is that John and Elijah were part of the same Disk aka Spirit.  They were different/individualized, but very connected probes within the same Disk/Spirit.

   This can logically answer both John denying that he literally was Elijah reborn, and yet still fulfill what both the OT and Yeshua said about the Elijah connection. 

    I recently had to write a paper for a Western civ class, and decided to write it on John the Baptist.  Course i didn't go into all the above, but talked about possible connections between John and the Essene's, and the Essene's between the Qumran community and the Dead Sea Scrolls.

  It's interesting to note that the Qumran community and the Dead Sea Scrolls (hence also possible the Essene's in general), had a different take on the coming of the Messiah.  They, or some within the community, seemed to see it as two messiah like men and figures coming, one which would be a more priestly figure and one a more kingly figure/role. 

  It's possible that what they were seeing/intuiting was the combination of John and Yeshua.

  In my paper, i pointed out some of the unusual similarities between John and Yeshua and the main overall thesis was about the important, instrumental role that John played in the development of Christianity. At the end, i asked the question, why would someone like Yeshua need anyone to come before him and prepare the way like John did? 

After all, according to the NT this Yeshua guy could walk on water, heal virtually any affliction, disappear among crowds, etc.  What need or purpose of John? 

  I postulated that perhaps so many hearts were just so closed that they needed these two back to back teachers to more effectively impact and reach people, and they needed a stepped down octave (John) for Yeshua to initially work through to prepare people. 

  I used some NT symbolism and imagery, saying that John was like the clear Water that came first to cleanse the main dross, and then Yeshua was the purifying Fire to complete the purification and lift it all up to Source.

  While on the surface, Cayce's guidance seems to imply only literal reincarnation or direct, probe reincarnation, there are aspects of it which speak strongly against this, such as listing some individuals who were past lives within Cayce's Disk and speaking of them as being still individuals who were helping with some of the readings.

  Another interesting excerpt, was that his guidance said that often times, the more advanced/developed the Soul/individual, the longer they spent in the nonphysical between incarnations.  There were a couple of cases where some individuals were told that their Soul had spent many thousands of years in the nonphysical before they reincarnated. Yet, for many individuals, including Edgar Cayce, they listed many other past lives as influences in the present.  For Cayce, he had some as recently as the early American pioneer period (and had a dream about a civil war self, which was pretty close to his time period as Cayce was born in 1877).

  So it wasn't that Cayce's guidance wasn't aware of and didn't imply the Disk vs probe issue, it was more like they were aware that people weren't ready for the more full truth laid out. They were already blowing minds with the info they did give out.
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Justin
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Re: John the Baptist & Elijah-Disk vs Probe?
Reply #1 - Aug 8th, 2015 at 5:06pm
 
  Btw, somewhat related to this, i have wondered if Bob Monroe was the direct reincarnation of Ashaneen? 

  I have also wondered if Bruce Moen is the direct reincarnation of Talo?
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Justin
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Re: John the Baptist & Elijah-Disk vs Probe?
Reply #2 - Aug 27th, 2015 at 3:14am
 
   Should add, regarding the last post on this, that some of what Bob said in his books and in videos seem to argue against the interpretation that he was the incarnation of a previously created "probe" that already had an inphysical incarnation.  He seemed to speak of himself as a new Disk mix.

   Can't say that i really know the truth of the matter--haven't looked all that deeply into it, but i do find it interesting that "He/She" referred to him as Ashaneen.  He/She in all probability had a much clearer and more expanded perceptive capacity than Bob, and even about Bob as compared to himself.

   Also, what makes it more complicated is that even if one is an incarnation of a probe that was created earlier and already lived an in-physical life, my sense is that this probe still has elements of it's other past selves that got mixed together to create it, strong within, and more over, might decide to make strong energetic connections to selves that have been created and lived lives after it did. 

   One reason might be to work out certain karmic patterns for one example.  Plus, there is the factor that even an unconscious and unaware probe is always very connected to it's Disk and fellow selves, and especially so the more aware and conscious a probe becomes. A "graduate" type probe can consciously channel and tune into any part and even all of it's Disk in a sense. And likely they are part of what Bob referred to as the "exec committee" of that Disk. 

   Perhaps related was a dream i had.  I was in a circle, holding hands with a group of individuals, and we were all meditating/praying, connecting to both each other and to PUL strongl.  I became aware that i should step into the circle, and was meant that i should open up fully and completely to PUL consciousness. I did, and it was quite something.  I had such an expanded sense of awareness, power, and connectedness.  On one hand, i felt i was me, an individual still, but yet much more than just me. 

   In hindsight, i think it was also symbolic of me being connected to and part of my own "exec committee" as i think the circle of individuals i was holding hands and connecting with was that level of my Disk.

  As regards a new Disk mix probe creation incarnation vs the direct incarnation a former probe that already lived in-physical, there might be certain advantages to the latter type of incarnation if that self had handled their material experience relatively well.

   While a new probe created from within a Disk of various different members, most of which probably lived at least one in-physical life, would have a pre sense of what it's about from those shared experiences, nothing substitutes direct experience of a self that already went through their own run.

  It's possible that the latter type of incarnation has a higher probability of handling the material experience well again, if it had already before (especially if it's a graduate type).

   Whatever the case of all this, i'm far from certain what exactly is the case with Bob Monroe or Bruce Moen, hence why i earlier said "wondered" in a questioning, tentative manner.  It's not something i've looked deeply into.  I think i also misspelled Bob's non human/ET self that he had a label for, i think it might have been Tralo instead of Talo. 

  If Bruce is a direct incarnation of Tralo, then that would make him a sort of earth angel (angel meaning non human/ET), also like me, someone coming in with a lot of ET/non human background, memory, and influence. It could also be that he was a new/recent Disk creation mix, but had Tralo mixed in strongly, because i definitely sense a strong chunk of that for whatever reason.
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I Am Dude
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Re: John the Baptist & Elijah-Disk vs Probe?
Reply #3 - Sep 12th, 2015 at 9:34am
 
My first thought after reading this was what the practical use of such speculation is and in what way it serves to promote spiritual growth, which in my opinion, is the purification of the mind.  Actually, my thought was that it has little to no practical use and only serves to clutter the mind.  My initial statement is more of a suggestion as to what to ask oneself when directing one's thoughts along the lines presented in this thread.  I am also open to the possibility that it does serve a beneficial purpose that I am not aware of.
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Re: John the Baptist & Elijah-Disk vs Probe?
Reply #4 - Sep 12th, 2015 at 2:53pm
 
Many conversations on a forum will not be directly linked to spiritual growth or love, but the links are there in an indirect path.  They still may be of interest to a reader.  In that event, the spiritual growth is involved in the process of discovery; searching for associations, meaning and a need to share and try to understand the complex process of consciousness in the physical world. 

Most conversations are not directly linked to spiritual growth.   That is why Lao Tzu in talking about enlightenment said "those who know do not speak; those who speak do not know."  And also "the tao (way) that can be spoken is not the eternal tao."  "The name which can be uttered is not the eternal name." 

Yet sometimes we human beings come together to chat, and wonder, even if it is not directly tied to spiritual growth.  And in that unity, and meeting of mind and spirit in a meaningless conversation, we grow in spirit anyway.

My thoughts, for what they are worth.

Matthew
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Justin
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Re: John the Baptist & Elijah-Disk vs Probe?
Reply #5 - Sep 12th, 2015 at 3:09pm
 
Quote:
I accept all forms deeply and completely.


  To answer your "questions", which i didn't quote:  Probably this thread doesn't have much value as far as relating directly to spiritual growth.

   I find as a consciousness connected to a human body, it's mighty hard to devote every single thought, feeling, etc. to that which directly fosters/facilitates spiritual growth or attunement. 

For some examples: i like to eat cashew milk ice cream at times.  Probably not the best thing to put into the body. But, i like it, and as long as it's in moderation, i don't see the problem.  If i ate it everyday, it would likely become a problem.

I like to sing.  Does singing directly foster/facilitate spiritual growth?  Probably not. But i like/enjoy it.

So, while i'm doing time here so to speak as a human (something i volunteered for and was asked to do, and didn't need to do), i got a lot of it and can't focus on spiritual growth and attunement 24/7, and so occasionally talk about things which objectively speaking, probably aren't that important in the grand scheme, or which don't directly facilitate spiritual growth or attunement of self or others.

   There is a spectrum of consciousness that exists.  It goes from pure Love, which is of the Source, and goes all the way to 0 Love, which if reached, a consciousness can destroy itself. 

   Somewhere in-between, in the middle of the extremes is a relatively "neutral" area, which neither contributes to spiritual growth/attunement directly, but neither to stuckness/stagnation and/or regression.  It is neither positive, nor negative.

  The trick is, to make a majority of choices that go as close towards the pure Love end of the spectrum (positive), and to make as little choices that go closer to the 0 end of the spectrum of extreme selfishness, fear, ego, etc and severe lack of Love (negative). 

  Basically creating habits of choice. 

  Occasionally dipping into the relatively neutral area of the spectrum, by focus or choices, doesn't strongly affect this overall process, unless one spends most of their focus and attention and choices there and/or has too much focus/habit in the negative also. 

What that means practically, well i can still enjoy eating that cashew milk ice cream on occasion, still sing, still write about subjects or people that i find interesting, and it's probably going to be "ok" and not much effect my growth one way or the other. Because most of my life/self is and has long been devoted to the more positive end of the spectrum.

   Sometimes when people get over involved in certain eastern or new age belief systems and philosophies, they become a little extremist, and they start to overly think and live in overly polarized focus of ego vs Love, forgetting that life and consciousness exists on a very wide spectrum of same, and that while we are connected to a human body in such a cycle as we are--it's probably not possible to be only pure Love all the time.   

    For, even in the man Yeshua, there was a difference of experience, attunement, and expression pre Resurrection (connected to a human body) and post Resurrection (and not connected to a human body), and he was born with an unusual body, a very balanced and innately fast vibratory body that many both human and non human had worked towards facilitating.

   So, one might ask you, how much does self try to live that quote of yours i put at the beginning of my post? 



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Justin
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Re: John the Baptist & Elijah-Disk vs Probe?
Reply #6 - Sep 14th, 2015 at 8:19pm
 
  In some ways, Matthew said it better than i did. More succinctly at the least.
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Re: John the Baptist & Elijah-Disk vs Probe?
Reply #7 - Sep 15th, 2015 at 12:32pm
 
I just recently saw the movie "The Nun's Story," starring Audrey Hepburn.  The movie is based on a true story. Some of the things the nuns did was a good example of trying to be spiritual rather than being spiritual. Eventually Audrey's character left the nunnery because she believed she could be more spiritual if she listened to her own conscience and common sense rather than do what the other nuns told her to do.

Some of the things Lao Tzu said are cool, but since "he" chatted about spiritual things I suppose it is okay for others to do so, even if he said "those who know do not speak; those who speak do not know."

Chances are that he wasn't opposed to speaking about things such as Astrology and past lives. If he was opposed in such a way to some degree he probably had a concept about being spiritual. It is important to remember context. Justin wasn't speaking about the nature of the Tao below. Just some of the things that take place "within" it. Is there anything else? Eastern teachings sometimes miss this point. Rather than finding out about things such as Soul development and how the Universe works, they'll label that which manifests as Samsara or Maya and claim that a wise man won't waste his time with figuring out how things work.

The Tao Te Ching isn't the only book with Lao Tzu's words, also the Hua Hu Ching. I like this later book more than the Tao Te Ching. Within it he speaks of being in contact with spirit beings. I can't say that  I agree with everything it says. Here is a link where a PDF file can be found.

https://www.google.com/#q=lao+tzu+hua+hu+ching+pdf   

P.S. Even though I mentioned Lao Tzu, I understand that the good Doctor was supportive. Smiley
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I Am Dude
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Re: John the Baptist & Elijah-Disk vs Probe?
Reply #8 - Sep 24th, 2015 at 3:59pm
 
Quote:
   So, one might ask you, how much does self try to live that quote of yours i put at the beginning of my post? 
 


Well, I certainly try.  Spiritual growth and personal development are, after all, my main focuses in life.  Of course, it's a work in progress.  I accept the fact that people spend their time engaged in that which I do not consider productive.  I myself do this.  Of course, acceptance and agreement/support are very different things. 

The thread reminded me of a past version of myself who could have benefited from the advice which I gave here, which is why I felt compelled to speak up, for the sake of those who may be in a similar position as I once was.  Theorizing about disks and other spiritual/esoteric concepts turned out to be a distraction from the real work that was needed to grow in the way I desired.  Being caught up in conceptualizing and absorbing book knowledge was more an exercise of my ego than it was a true effort to better myself.  Of course, there is nothing wrong with wanting to know and understand the nature of the self and the mechanics of reality; it is more a matter of where one's focus is in this search and if it will lead to the happiness/enlightenment that one desires or not.  One part of it seems to be finding the direct path to this insight, knowing where to look.  I believe the other part is knowing what you're looking for to begin with, otherwise one may find oneself on a wild goose chase.  I used to think that obtaining knowledge about the Higher Self and the afterlife would bring me the fulfillment that I sought.  After gaining some of that knowledge through first hand experience, I came to find out that I was wrong. 

Anyway, none of this is directed at anyone in particular.  Just sharing my thoughts and what I believe can be beneficial to anyone who is in the boat that I was in.
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Re: John the Baptist & Elijah-Disk vs Probe?
Reply #9 - Sep 24th, 2015 at 5:44pm
 
Regarding knowing about the afterlife, I believe it is good to know that it exists. As far as the details, this concerns me more because I'm concerned about what others have to go through, rather than how it applies to my self.

I can't say that I'm interested in hanging out in the various astral realms.  I'm interested in rejoining Source. Even now, I try to do that as best as I can. Perhaps I should qualify "as best as I can." Sometimes I hold onto things more than I need to.

Regarding Ego, well, that word means different things to different people.  Perhaps one way to speak of it, that which makes us seem separate from Source and others. I don't believe that the wisdom we acquire as we grow is separate.

Say a guy has a fantasy to become a Rock Star, becomes one, and becomes heavily identified with this persona. Eventually he'll find out that true fulfillment can't be found in such way. Only a way that is more formless, not body-based and spiritual will work.  When he lets go of such a false identity and the attachments that go with it, he doesn't have to let go of the wisdom that such transcendence includes.  Such wisdom will be an essential part of his being.

When it comes to thinking about Disks and such, to some degree I believe this is better than trying to not think about anything. It is okay for a person to use his mind when he tries to figure things out, as long as he understands how far such an approach will go.

I've found that one thing a person needs to do is work out various aspects of self. Having a Higher Self perspective can help one do so.  If one goes too far with not seeing how his being is organized, this might interfere with his ability to find out what parts of his self need to be taken care of.

People who claim to be enlightened but don't know about their higher selves, aren't as enlightened as they claim.  Even if such a person has a vast experiences of formless being, this doesn't mean that he can forget about what lies between his body-based self and Source level of being.

Going by my experience and what makes sense to me, before a person can completely become one with Source and all others, he needs to become aware of various spirit levels of being, because they are a part of the Oneness. This is true even with beings who are currently manifesting in a negative way. They are a part of Self in a larger sense.

Sometimes people don't become aware of such levels of being because they are afraid to do so. Until they do so, they won't be able to reconnect with Source completely, even if they have glimpses.

I Am Dude wrote on Sep 24th, 2015 at 3:59pm:
Quote:
   So, one might ask you, how much does self try to live that quote of yours i put at the beginning of my post? 
 


Well, I certainly try.  Spiritual growth and personal development are, after all, my main focuses in life.  Of course, it's a work in progress.  I accept the fact that people spend their time engaged in that which I do not consider productive.  I myself do this.  Of course, acceptance and agreement/support are very different things. 

The thread reminded me of a past version of myself who could have benefited from the advice which I gave here, which is why I felt compelled to speak up, for the sake of those who may be in a similar position as I once was.  Theorizing about disks and other spiritual/esoteric concepts turned out to be a distraction from the real work that was needed to grow in the way I desired.  Being caught up in conceptualizing and absorbing book knowledge was more an exercise of my ego than it was a true effort to better myself.  Of course, there is nothing wrong with wanting to know and understand the nature of the self and the mechanics of reality; it is more a matter of where one's focus is in this search and if it will lead to the happiness/enlightenment that one desires or not.  One part of it seems to be finding the direct path to this insight, knowing where to look.  I believe the other part is knowing what you're looking for to begin with, otherwise one may find oneself on a wild goose chase.  I used to think that obtaining knowledge about the Higher Self and the afterlife would bring me the fulfillment that I sought.  After gaining some of that knowledge through first hand experience, I came to find out that I was wrong. 

Anyway, none of this is directed at anyone in particular.  Just sharing my thoughts and what I believe can be beneficial to anyone who is in the boat that I was in.

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Re: John the Baptist & Elijah-Disk vs Probe?
Reply #10 - Sep 24th, 2015 at 7:40pm
 
Hey Albert, nice to hear from you.

I agree, it's good to know the afterlife exists.
I am likewise interested in rejoining Source rather than hanging around astral realms.
I also agree that it's fine to think about Disks and such so long as one acknowledges the limitations and potential results of such activity.

Regarding claims of enlightenment without knowledge of the Higher Self, I don't believe there is any knowledge, even if it comes from personal experience, that is more important than the wisdom and insight that comes from developing a pure mind free from harmful tendencies.  I have spoken to quite a few people claiming superior knowledge of such esoteric concepts like Higher Selves who display behavior that is far from spiritually advanced, on a couple occasions the people displaying even more harmful qualities than most I know who are clueless about such concepts actually.  On the other hand, purifying the mind can be done independent of such esoteric concepts and guarantees the development of wholesome and harmless qualities, by definition.  So if one had to choose between the two sides, which, by the way, is not necessarily necessary, I think the choice is clear.

About your statements of needing to know the various spiritual levels before rejoining Source, I'm not so sure I agree, not that the opinion holds much weight on the argument, especially as the conclusion (a person can become one with Source and all others) is speculation at best.

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But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things will be added unto you.
 
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Justin
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Re: John the Baptist & Elijah-Disk vs Probe?
Reply #11 - Sep 24th, 2015 at 10:07pm
 
  If you're basically saying that a person cannot spiritually grow directly from knowing, theorizing, or thinking about life, metaphysics, or anything, then i would completely agree with you.  That people can over focus on metaphysics and phenomena is also true and fairly common.

  But, i occasionally get direct guidance about various metaphysical things like other lives, astrology, etc, often without seeking same.  This indicates to me, that it has some value/importance in the grand scheme of things, because expanded guidance generally only shares what is helpful to and/or needed for one's spiritual growth, especially if one is a mature consciousness to being with. 

  While i don't often seek info much anymore during meditation, sometimes i do ask "please bring to my conscious awareness that which is most spiritually helpful for me and/or the Whole to become aware of now."

  This practice has led to some interesting, and seemingly unlikely places.

  But mostly meditation and life in general has become about opening up/expanding the "heart" so called, and communing with those who consciously know and exist in that full, fully conscious Oneness state that i would like to grow to as well.

  I tend to talk about others experiences/info more than my own, because i'm a pragmatist and know that people generally are much more interested in and open minded to, Monroe, Cayces, Moen's, etc, etc. experiences or information than my own.  If i receive something from guidance that aligns with aspects of their information, then sometimes i spend time in synthesizing various sources which speak similarly, as a way to facilitate some deeper thinking and openness to a certain concept. 

  In general, i've found the more that i grow in and attune to Love, the more my awareness and perception has generally expanded as well--become more aware of the Whole--say for example the Reptilian E.T.'s.  As i often say and point out, Like attracts and begets Like, and so perception follows beingness to a degree unless the body and physical interferes (injury, etc). 

   As in most things in life, it's the deeper intention behind an activity or expression which in relative relation to the individual (including their entire past etc), which determines more the degree of constructiveness or retrogression spiritually for them. 

   We all come in with certain different lessons and issues to work on more specifically, as well as generally trying to grow in love. 

   I know enough about my past, and what makes me me, to know and understand that occasionally talking about metaphysical subjects is not one of my areas or issues to work on. 

  In fact, i have gone long periods of not communicating much on here at all, and have received guidance that i should post more often.  Sometimes, it came from another and out of the blue for them. 

Quote:
The thread reminded me of a past version of myself


It's funny that you say this, because i felt/thought similarly in relation to your recent replies. Reminded me of myself at a couple points when i thought i was above it all or thought i found the one true way. 

  If you have distilled this mysterious, and simply huge process called life down to only purification of the mind (which in and of itself alone can involve many factors, conscious AND unconscious), then chances are, you're probably missing the mark to some extent because there is a lot more than that involved. 

  Purification of the mind is certainly very important, but even the phrase itself indicates a certain lack of understanding, and/or a tone towards the negative. After all, the process at it's core is most about growing in and attuning to Love and increasing quality of consciousness.  Purification of the mind puts the emphasis on that what we don't want aka the problem. It's ego centric, and like a course over focused on the problem and the ego monster.  But of course i would agree that dealing with hindrances or limiting aspects of self is a part of growing/expanding in Love, etc. 

  However, what is more helpful to put the most focus on, especially to the subconscious?  Focus on that which is the reality and truth (Love) or the lack of same (dirty mind and ego)?  Hmmm, when i see people over focused on the latter, i often also see over focus on a particular limiting belief system.


While i'm not generally a fan of Zen, i do find the saying about enlightenment to have truth to it, *Before enlightenment i chopped wood and carried water, and after enlightenment i chopped wood and carried water.*

   I'm not enlightened, and especially not in any ultimate, He/She sense.  However, i've temporarily perceived/experienced it.  (that dream that i mentioned)

  I've come to intuit and consider that full, or complete enlightenment isn't possible while connected to a human body during this cycle (and not for many generations yet to come)--meaning if you were born of a woman and all that.

  For those nearing completion (those that are incarnated in the earth and which this pertains to, are extremely rare at this time), that degree of beingness and awareness will come after the death of the body.  It's possible, but unlikely, that like Yeshua, such a person might re-create a human like form to interact with fellow humans, but only if there is a need for it.  As we, unlike him, are not the Co-Creator and the over seeing director/guide of growth/remembrance and retrieval here, then unlikely for the need to arise.

 



   



 
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Re: John the Baptist & Elijah-Disk vs Probe?
Reply #12 - Sep 25th, 2015 at 1:03pm
 
Dude, nice to hear from you.

Regarding your third paragraph, I don't mean that one needs to find out about all levels. Say a person tries to open up to love and Oneness as much as possible. He experiences an expanse of love and peace. A part of that Oneness are higher level conscious beings. If a person makes conscious contact with the energetic level of such beings but doesn't have it mind to make contact with them, such beings might keep mum, but that doesn't mean that they aren't there. If a person becomes open to connecting and communicating with such beings, then he becomes more conscious of the energetic level such beings are a part of.

I say this with the thought that divine love and peace can't exist without there being beings who are aware of such qualities. It is also a matter of understanding that one isn't separate from such beings. In truth, there is no such thing as being alone.

Knowing how much such beings are aware of me helps me remain humble, because I understand that there is no way they will buy into any ego-like grandiose ideas I might develop about myself. Not that I have a tendency to do so. Despite all of my spiritual experiences I feel rather ordinary when I am around others. I can't say that I have reached the point where I am completely free of the tendency of trying to feel good about myself in false ways, but I think I am doing okay.

I believe that if a person wants to be one with Source, then he needs to have some awareness of the negative beings that exist, because such beings aren't separate from a person's greater self, and a person can't be closed to finding out about parts of self that are in need of spiritual growth.

There is also the matter of developing the ability to tell what type of beings you are in contact with. This can be challenging. If a person isn't willing to deal with this, such a person has a psychological block in place, and that will limit his development accordingly.

Regarding what you say about people who speak of higher self, the only person I've spoken to is Justin, and I can see that he has a good heart. It might not show at times on this forum, but he is quite humble and service oriented. I've spoken to Bruce on this forum a bit, and it seems to me that he has a good heart. I get the same feeling about Robert Monroe (I haven't spoken to him).

You say purifying the mind, my way of thinking of this is getting to the point where I can live according to love more completely rather than body-based drives, and letting go of attachments. I figure you mean something similar. Having a service oriented attitude and being dedicated to the Oneness is a big part of this.

Justin brought up an interesting point I first considered a while ago. Is it possible for a person to be completely "enlightened" while in this World? I believe this might be difficult because of body-based drives and the challenges this World includes including its various energetic levels.

Consider this, while meditating I can be in a bliss/love state and it doesn't seem as if I need anything else. As soon as I open my eyes and see the room around me, my spiritual state dissipates a bit. I don't believe this is due to a lack of depth. Rather, in order to see this World my focus of attention needs to shift from the divine level to this physical World.

In a way this is similar to Astral Projection with the effects or a Lucid dream. If you focus your attention on this physical World too much you'll lose contact with the astral.

There is also the matter of how much energy a physical body can handle. I've found that my spirit energy becomes very alive when I tune in and sometimes it seems as if it is too much for my physical body.

Therefore, I doubt that it is possible for a body-based person to be in touch with the grandness of divine Oneness to the same extent that a non-embodied spiritual being is able to do so.

There is also the matter of how this World includes contradictory needs. For example, at times it might be hard to find enough time to meditate because there are other things you have to take care of.

I Am Dude wrote on Sep 24th, 2015 at 7:40pm:
Hey Albert, nice to hear from you.

I agree, it's good to know the afterlife exists.
I am likewise interested in rejoining Source rather than hanging around astral realms.
I also agree that it's fine to think about Disks and such so long as one acknowledges the limitations and potential results of such activity.

Regarding claims of enlightenment without knowledge of the Higher Self, I don't believe there is any knowledge, even if it comes from personal experience, that is more important than the wisdom and insight that comes from developing a pure mind free from harmful tendencies.  I have spoken to quite a few people claiming superior knowledge of such esoteric concepts like Higher Selves who display behavior that is far from spiritually advanced, on a couple occasions the people displaying even more harmful qualities than most I know who are clueless about such concepts actually.  On the other hand, purifying the mind can be done independent of such esoteric concepts and guarantees the development of wholesome and harmless qualities, by definition.  So if one had to choose between the two sides, which, by the way, is not necessarily necessary, I think the choice is clear.

About your statements of needing to know the various spiritual levels before rejoining Source, I'm not so sure I agree, not that the opinion holds much weight on the argument, especially as the conclusion (a person can become one with Source and all others) is speculation at best.


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Justin
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Re: John the Baptist & Elijah-Disk vs Probe?
Reply #13 - Sep 25th, 2015 at 7:15pm
 
  Albert, thanks for the kind words, but i don't consider myself particularly humble by the more common human  definition and perspective.

  To some extent, Dude's comments reminded me of something.  I think we need to be careful when ascertaining the supposed degree of spiritual development of others. 

   Related--there was a small percentage of people who received "Life Readings" from Cayce which when going into their most influencing other lives, and nonphysical experiences (described astrologically), were told that they would not have to incarnate again as a human if they chose not to.  Meaning, they had reached a certain degree of spiritual attunement.  Some were told it was conditional depending on how well they finished this life, and others were told that they had already reached that development.

   Cayce's grandson years later commented that having met some of these rarish folks that Arcturus (as a symbol) was a conscious factor in their life chart, or could be, that he often was surprised because he said that in many ways, they seemed pretty ordinary and fallible human beings.  They weren't "walking on water" types by a long shot.

  One lady, who had been Yeshua's Essene Teacher in Judea, was apparently a bit abrasive and pushy/bossy at times personality wise. 

   So, it's not always easy to accurately judge a Soul's development by occasional glimpses into their changeable, wavering, personality self.  After all, this part of us is very strongly linked to our body and the physical in general, and our bodies are very fragile things that can be imbalanced by many different things--various foods, accidents, outside psychic interference, etc, etc e.g. factors that don't directly relate to the deeper will and intention of their Soul in a spiritual sense. 

  At the same time, it's not hard to see when a person really gets off track if they start to consistently partake in egregiously harmful and lacking in love activities, such as conning others for material gain, manipulation, etc, etc. 

  But what i'm essentially saying is that to most accurately judge another's development, takes 1. clear and expanded sight on part of the viewer, 2. needs to consider the person as a whole and their average expression over a period of time,  3. their deeper intentions and motivations, 4. tuning more deeply into them and getting info about them from expanded guidance. 

  I have misjudged people based on material conditions and personality things, and because i do have some true humility and realized i could be wrong, i brought it to expanded guidance under more ideal conditions and was told differently than i initially thought about a person. 

   Or, i just might not have realized the degree of attunement that a person might have. An example, i had a dream wherein i was at a gathering with Bruce Moen and many others (helper types), and Bruce told me very intently, "go find (so and so), he is more intune than i."

  At the time did i consciously think that this person was more developed and intune than Bruce?  Not really, and to some extent i briefly put Bruce somewhat on a pedestal (around this time). But the dream message clearly told me that this person was more developed. 

  Or, conversely, i've gotten guidance about people and their dark sides that i wasn't as consciously aware about.  A recent example:  We rent out two of the rooms in the house we live in. I have been on the fence about one of our housemates because of certain actions and behaviors. But otherwise, he is charming and friendly on the surface.

  I had a dream recently which indicated quite clearly to me that he had deeper and more severe issues with ethics than i even realized.  The dream showed me his dark side. Part of me was sensing this, but i guess i didn't want to fully realize it consciously and partly because i didn't want to misjudge him (having misjudged others occasionally in the past).  But, most would meet him and never guess this about him, because on the surface, personality wise, he can be friendly and charming. 

    I guess that saying, don't judge a book by it's cover can be rather true. 

   If we took isolated instances of Yeshua's life out of a larger context, we could easily find fault with him and say that this man lacked spiritual attunement or awareness of Love.  But how off we would be with such a myopic assessment.





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Re: John the Baptist & Elijah-Disk vs Probe?
Reply #14 - Sep 26th, 2015 at 10:12am
 
Justin

When I say purification of mind, it is not just about removing the negative aspects.  It is equally about cultivating wholesome qualities like love, compassion, peace, equanimity, etc.  Again, what is the point of gaining spiritual knowledge about Higher Selves and the like when one is not able to apply the principles that allow that knowledge to have a positive effect in one's life?  Experiencing peace, joy and love can only be done in a true, lasting, and meaningful way when one removes that which blocks and hinders these qualities.  So it seems metaphysical/esoteric knowledge is secondary to the purification of the mind, a far second even. 

I agree that having knowledge of some metaphysical or spiritual concepts may not be not completely useless.

I do not believe to know the one true way, nor do I believe that life is simply about purifying the mind.  However, I do believe that this process is essential for true and significant spiritual growth and personal development to take place.

Regarding attempts at ascertaining the degree of spiritual development of others or judging a book by it's cover, I'm a bit unsure if you were saying that I was guilty of this, but I feel like you were.  I've already made my intentions clear, refer to my previous posts if you missed this.  Again, I wasn't judging anyone personally, simply commenting on the behavior/activity taking place.  I even acknowledged that there could be some benefit to it that I did not realize.  There is a big difference between saying "this activity does not readily facilitate spiritual growth" and "those who engage in this activity are spiritually underdeveloped."  I'm sure you're wise enough to see this.


Recoverer

Thanks for the clarification.  I understand better now and agree with you.

Perhaps it's not possible to become completely enlightened during this life.  But it sure can't hurt to try!

Regarding finding time to meditate, I assume you mean sitting meditation.  But I also enjoy meditating while I drive, when I walk, etc.  I also enjoy being mindful of my mind states and behaviors during all of my daily activities, and try to apply the principles that produce the most beneficial results in my life.   I believe that the average person has more than enough time on this earth to dedicate at least enough of it to spiritual development in a way that effectively leads to the purification of one's mind.
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But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things will be added unto you.
 
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