Don:

As you know, I've had experiences with Christ.  The first time was when I had my night in heaven experience. It began with the understanding that in some way Christ is a reality, the person of Jesus did exist, and he did represent divine truth when he was here.

For a while I wondered if the Gospels of Matthew, Mark and Luke most accurately represent Christ, or the Gospel of John. Because Christ's being seemed so holy during my night in heaven experience, I tried to elevate his status by considering the gospel of John viewpoint.

I can't say I know what his being is all about, but right now I figure he is a Soul, a child of God like the rest of us. It is just that he reached a state of being while human that many people don't reach while human.

I believe that when any Soul reaches a certain level of development, it understands about its oneness with God. This doesn't mean that a particular Soul's being is the being that created everything. It means that a particular Soul's being has reached the level where it lives according to the same love and wisdom that God's being lives according to. I believe that just about all of us are destined to reach this level. I believe that the spirit of Jesus is very supportive of us doing so.

I don't believe that Jesus needs us to attribute things to him that aren't accurate, in order for him to be a divine being.  To do so is to not understand what divinity is really about. Just as you can't make a human being more divine by electing he or she to be the President of the United States, you can't make a Soul more divine by attributing special titles.

Notice that there are some NDEs where the spirit of Jesus brought a Soul to the presence of God, as happened with Howard Storm's experience.

I believe one of the reasons the spirit World delivers information to people in different ways, is because it understands that different people are open to hearing different information.  Perhaps Emanuel learned about Christ in the manner he did, because many people including Emanuel weren't open to hearing a different viewpoint during Emanuel's time period. I figure that when Jesus thinks of himself he thinks of himself more as the Christ spirit that abides in all of us, rather than a particular person. I figure he doesn't believe that he can be Christ more than we can be Christ, even though his role in the grand scheme of things is in some ways bigger than it is for other Souls.

I figure there are a lot of planets in this universe and other universes that can inhabit life. If as some people believe Jesus is God himself, consider how many times God would have to incarnate and possibly go through some sort of ordeal. I believe it would be quite unfair to expect this of God. In the end you get only one being. On the other hand, if Jesus is a Soul just like the rest of us, then he and many other beings like him get to enjoy their existance along with God, just like the rest of us.

I do not believe it is irreverent to think of Jesus as wonderful elder brother who knows more than me and can help me.

Perhaps more people in this World would be accepting of Christ, if some people didn't contend that you better believe or else.  I really doubt that God and Jesus would put things in such a repressive test framework. If a Soul reaches the point where it wants to live according to love and humility, then it will be open to accepting truth as it is, regardless of what it is. There would be no reason to be concerned about any particular part of truth. Each of us will have many surprises when we find out what divine truth is.

I don't believe it is necessary to minimalize spiritual experiences that dont include Jesus. If a person experienced divine love during an NDE, then he or she experienced what the spirit of Christ is about. I feel confident that Jesus appreciates such experiences.  

I think your criteria for a true heaven, Don, describes a lovely place which I hope does, indeed, exist. Although my own personal opinion holds little value, my own experiences both in meditation alone and with others here, and my own reading and life experiences, support much of what you list numerically.

To be honest, I feel that whether a person is greeted by a Being/Christ or whether they are simply invited into a unique experience of love like no other they have known....there is no difference.

But I would hope that Christ remains very real to those who need him. I personally have never clung to his person, that I know of, at least, knowing that it was him. I, like many others, only know when I am comforted by the source of all love.

wishing you a lasting peace, blink

I agree to a certain extant with all you guy's...True Heaven seems to be the ultimate domain in which we, all souls, will eventually gravitate too..Jesus, that beautiful and wonderful man, from the middle east 2000 years ago, testifies that this statement is truth, among several other great souls that taught us here on Earth, before and after Lord Jesus...I will not add anymore, as I wish to not add to what is and what is non acceptable, in written posts by certain members of this forum, by those who rule and censor this message board...Harvey.

Very nice thread.  Some thoughts:

Using the words a "true" heaven, imply the existence of false or hollow heavens.  It also implies one correct or true path for spirit or consciousness - all others being the "wrong" way for spiritual progression.

I believe that hollow heavens are merely realms of consciousness that are centerd on a mental plane that denies or does not fully accept love.  That is what causes them to be "hollow;" there is more out there for the soul/mind to experience.  There is a divinity that we are part of, and it consists of our acknowledgement of the source of PUL being God, and the manifestation of PUL being in ourselves.  Once we recognize this, or the inconsistencies in any hollow heaven/mental plane, we are freed and open to new possibilities.

I am intrigued by Don's reports of christian conversions, but I reject at this time, the notion that a true heaven is only attainable by one who recognizes one path (christianity).  If I, as a loving Jew, believe in the same principles of love of God, God as the foundation of my being, and love of his creation (including my fellow man), would I not qualify for entrance into a "true heaven," although I did not follow the doctrine of christianity?  I believe, that I would - as would others.  I believe that one's spiritual inclinations are more important than earthly identifications with a single religion.

Matthew

Take care

Alan

Matthew (et. al.)

Your statement Quote:
really struck me.

How can there be anyone who does not fully accept love? What does it mean to fully accept love? This is a profound concept.

Yet that is correct. I certainly have struggled to love myself, not in the narcissistic fashion but in the PUL fashion. I once found a scholarly work having to do with the idea that self-love was a blasphemy at certain historical time periods, and it helped me see what a false idea it is to not love yourself. I think I had the idea that it made me more pure and holy to not love myself, or to love others more than I loved myself. This is a false idea that ws promulgated by religious teachings.

So how many hollow hells are occupied by folks who have the idea that loving does not include loving yourself? Hollow hells aren't necessarily occupied by folks who hate others. Not loving yourself sufficiently would also cause grief.

It is hollow to love your neighbor as yourself if you don't first love yourself.

Heaven isn't a place, it is a state of being.

Matthew,

The Being of Light normally does not identify itself to non-Christians, but is the target of projected identifications from the percipient.  What is crucial is not the human identity of the being, but the quality of the love ethic that its radiance implies and the beauty of the relationship with it that its invitation offers.  In Storm's NDE, Jesus insists that the "right" religion is the one that brings you closest to God.  Storm's Jesus also claims that His "atonement" made this relationship with God possible.  But this claim is irrelevant to your point because you would not be expected to violate your current conscience and accept beliefs that you are honestly not ready to embrace.  

Your last paragraph makes the crucial concession: if your postmortem self realizes at some point that you need to rethink the Jesus question, you are more than willing to do so.  I reject the claim that formal belief in Jesus is a decisive factor in who can and cannot ultimately gain access to a "true" heaven.  By the same token, I hope I would be open in my afterlife to being corrected about any of my misconceptions of Jesus' role.  The Bible itself teaches that God communicates under different symbols to peoples of different religous and cultural backgrounds.  But as I said, I still want to learn what more comprehensive cross-cultural NDE research might reveal.  In that respect, scientific afterlife research is still in its infancy.

Don