Alan,

Hello. Thank you for your replies on my previous posts.

I would like to share with you and the others some personal views I have on God.

First of all, I do not see God as a Supreme Being. If he thought of himself as Supreme, I think he would be arrogant.

I believe God is the most evolved soul existing in the entire universe. I think he masters PUL, knowledge and feeling, beyond our wildest imagination.

I believe he is made basically out of the same energy as we are, but, if we could know ourselves as well as we should and be 100% alined with our natural way of Being, and keep this state stable, I think we'ld be a lot closer to God.

I think God is the Soul that has found the best way to be and that he is still learning with us, through us, to be even better at what he is. I believe he does not need to incarnate in a (earth)life or get involved in somebody else's life to experience and learn.

I believe God has found a way so that he does not need the duality of earth-life system to be more loving, to give more PUL.

I think we have everything to learn from him, but I think we should realize that there is a fundamental difference between: knowing through knowledge and wisdom AND knowing through experience of self.

God could certainly give us all knowledge, if we chose to, BUT to understand that knowledge, we still need to experience "these feelings" ourselves. I believe that this is the entire goal of the earth-life system.

Through experience, we learn what works on this planet (which is qualified as good) and what does not work (which is qualified as evil). Through experience, we learn to be more loving or how to avoid to be less loving.

I believe God thought of this system, and from these thoughts life evolved to what we now know as earth-life. Then we selected a life we were curious to experience.

This is only my personal opinion, of course.

I hope it helps you, somehow.

Much love,

Sonia

Alan:

I agree with a lot of what Sonia wrote. Here's a few of my own words.

Existence started out with one being, call this being God if you like.  This being was made up of a mixture of awareness, the ability to learn and think, and the energy with which it creates. Eventually--which probably didn't take a long time because this being was infinite in nature and time didn't exist--this being figured out how to use its energy to create many other beings. Since nothing but this being existed, it used its own being to create everything including all of us. Therefore, we are all extensions of this one being.

Eventually we find our way back to God and bring our lessons and uniqueness with us. God never considers us to be seperate from him. Just different parts of himself playing various roles. Yet he respects the independence each of us have, because each of us experiences the consequences of our choices.  At a basic level we are never seperate from God and each other.

Hello again Don,
one little critic, you said:
"At a deeper level, the New Age view is false because it overlooks the possibility that an omnipotent God can create sentient beings and universes that can in important ways operate independently of God's micro-management."
This would only be so when there already had been a sort of independent matter which had not been created by God. If God had created really everything, than there simply would be no source of independence left. The thought that there is a creator who can create something, and then let it run on it's own is taken from our daily life, where nothing we create is entirely created by us. If it would (time, space, every particle and what not all), it wouldn't be independent of us as the creator; in fact, it seems as if in this case, creator and creation would be unseparable.

Spooky

Berserk2 wrote on Aug 27^th, 2008 at 9:24pm:



A BIG WELCOME BACK DON!!....ULTRA!!!...To the rescue..PLEASE!!!Harv.

Alan McDougall wrote on Aug 27^th, 2008 at 6:08am:


Hey Alan,
My own interpretation is to view "God" as basically a co-ordinating principle, or energy if you like.

The way I'd describe it would be to point at all the trillions of people and various other life forms that exist, but to then say that I tend to view "God," as an entity which is able to take all of those disparate perspectives and opinions into account, and still formulate a consistent plan of action for attaining the wellbeing of all of them, relative to their specific context.

Putting it more simply, an analogy which people here might be able to visualise more easily would be the Borg Queen, from some of the later depictions of Star Trek.  The Queen was someone who took in all of the individual thoughts of the beings within the Borg Collective, and was still able to create a single, coherent plan from them on a course of action for the Collective to take, in terms of its' survival.

That's also where the definition of the dark and light duality comes in, in the sense that people complying with the above are said to be working with the light, and those trying to do the opposite, with the darkness.  Then however you also find out that both of those halves ultimately serve the whole.

I make no claim about whether the above is accurate in any objective sense, either.  It's basically an interpretation which I've found relevant as one individual.

The evidence seems to point to a scenario where what we refer to as "God" has the ability to give itself an entirely different appearance or cognitive interpretation for each individual, and yet maintain a consistent existence within, and over and above, all of them. 

Hence, your own answer to this question will be different from mine almost by definition, because of God's ability to manifest to us in a manner which is specific to our own situation and background.

You are God, I am God, Everything and nothing is God.

I think, if we worry that much about God, it is somehow because we wonder if God can help us at all improving our faith.

Do you think God can help us, in a way that we can see?

Sonia

Sonia dear,


Your post below and my reponse to it

Quote:
,



Sonia dear

I also can’t see God as some arrogant Supreme Sovereign being needing us to praise and sing to him day and night. Why must we constantly assure God that he is the greatest thing ever, He does not need his ego stroked and he simple knows he is what he is without pride coming into the equation

I really like your post and take about what God is to you. I often say ones God is the God of their understanding and your belief about him/her is beautiful indeed

God could give us all knowledge just as you stated but he will not do so until he is sure we can handle it correctly, don’t you agree?

And you make a very valid point about God evolving. As the creator he must be evolving with his creation

Like I stated in my reply to Don , we are made from "GODSTUFF" but separated as sentient beings who love and adore him as mother and father of everything

God to me is the primordial mind, the Fist Thinker he that perceives and creates

Much love

Thank you for a nice well thought out  response

Love

Alan

Alan wrote:
Quote:


This is not my opinion. It was a "If this, then that" relation. Indeed, when something can't arise from nothing, there must have been something before, and this is iterated ad infinitum. I don't expect the old riddle of "Was there a beginning?" will be solved here in the physical. At least not in language based thinking.

Spooky

Don:

If as you seem to be suggesting, everything that exists didn't come from God's own being, where did it come from? Did God look to a source other than his own being when he looked for the consciousness and energy to create other beings?  Just because Souls get confused for a while as they figure things out, this doesn't mean that they aren't inately divine.

Oh Don, How I have missed your opinions. The fact that you dismiss what you call "new age view of God" truly shows how closed minded your religious beliefs must be. Or am I just reading you all wrong? Is what you are trying to say is that your beliefs are closer to the truth than mine? You belief in God stronger? Your choices better? Well then you should have your own church so that you have the opportunity to gather as many sheep as you can to follow you to your heaven. Perhaps I will see you there when I pass through F25. Oh yes, you do have the church of Don don't you? Perhaps Don, we are both right. Perhaps I am a reflection of God. No less, no more. Perhaps God is an just as you place him/her, above all others and everything. Perhaps, just perhaps, there is your God and there is also my God. By the way can you say "Christian fundamentalist"?

Hello Alan,

I am happy that we can share opinions here.

Alan McDougall wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2008 at 7:46pm:


QUOTING ALAN:
God could give us all knowledge just as you stated but he will not do so until he is sure we can handle it correctly, don’t you agree?

Yes, I agree that I believe God could give us all knowledge, BUT I don't think he checks whether we can handle it correctly. I think he would prefer that we would handle it correctly, unfortunately, the choice is not upto him. If he could always be sure that we could handle everything, I think there would be no murder, no suicide, no theft,... to summarize there wouldn't be no crime, nor hurt.

If supposedly, we are parts of God that don't know themselves, we suffer the consequences of our ignorance in our actions. Ignorance leads to mistakes. Human mistakes, by definition, are contrario to the nature of the soul, which is to be loving and bring happiness and good. The contrary of love, good and happiness, etc. IS hatred, war, evil and suffering, etc.

Quoting myself:
If supposedly, we are parts of God that don't know themselves, we suffer the consequences of our ignorance in our actions.

If we are probes of curiosity, there must be something to be curious about. Curiosity is a result of lack of knowledge about a certain matter. Lack of knowledge = ignorance.

QUOTING ALAN:
And you make a very valid point about God evolving. As the creator he must be evolving with his creation

Actually, I am not as sure about that as I seem to be. How do you define evolution. Evolution means change. Suppose you would master PUL at the highest level (like God for example). You can only learn to master it even better by watching others make mistakes, but in fact in essence you already ARE PUL. Evolving and learning to practice a craft better you already know is a different thing to me.

QUOTING ALAN:
Like I stated in my reply to Don , we are made from "GODSTUFF" but separated as sentient beings who love and adore him as mother and father of everything

I believe we adore him, because he IS what we want and need AND because we lack it here.

I believe that God is asked a lot (In prayers, we ask him to get this, to get that, etc.), but how many of us wonder if God feels loved, if he feels happy. How many of us, give him something spiritually by free will, other than what he learns from us by hearing our thoughts (since he must be a gifted psychic, I believe) and through compassion for our state.

If we really adored him the way we should, we would all create a world in accordance to our real nature: which is our will to be happy, good and loving.

Instead, society just most often reaches for the first thing listed: happiness for itself, not looking at the damage it makes, creating that happiness. You start to be good, when you start to act lovingly, on the whole line. This means, when you start to create happiness for EVERYBODY and not just an small elite. Society, as a whole, has not learned that yet.

QUOTING ALAN:
God to me is the primordial mind, the Fist Thinker he that perceives and creates

I would like to nuance my point of view. I believe creation is a partnership:

God first thinks of a model (like Earth-Life System) to generate a certain type of experience. Then souls choose to enter that reality and modify it again, through there believes. We are as much responsible of our evolution as is God.

I think that, no matter how much suffering we create, one day we will we forced to get rid of wrong believe-patterns (and behaviors due to that). BUT for the moment, when society changes a pattern, it is mostly not out of LOVE, but out of necessity (to avoid a war, to get the economy better, to improve diplomacy, etc...) but too often not for the people.

The system gets more support than the people who are part of that system. The reason for that is, that the system is exploited by people who need that system, to match their believes (eg. a famous politician needs to keep his power, to gain more money and power. When he has power he feels safe and can give himself the illusion he is loved, because he feels needed. This means he will support this system, to create his happiness. Companies support him, because he will help them vote laws that will be good for their company. The chief of the company needs that to earn a lot of money to buy a yacht, a house, school for his daughter, to please his wife with diamonds. His wife needs diamonds to impress the jetset. Her daughter needs the jetset to become a famous actress. She wants to be adored for her talents as an actress, etc...and because she feels unloved because her father is constantly working and having dinner with famous politicians. Etc...)

The system is not God's will, but a combination of consequences of choices, which have consequences, etc....like a stone thrown in the water, you see the waves expand.

We might be expansions of God, until we've fulfilled our curiosity.


OTHER THINGS:
I think there are as many realms in God's world as their are beliefs and ways of being.

There are realms for people who do not believe in God, but does it proove God does not exist?

God does not dictate what to believe, he leaves it upto us to discover our nature through experience. God can be a place, a soul, etc.

The concept of God has become so high, we've lost touch with it. I think we shouldn't put that concept on some kind of pedestal, or believe 1 religion or belief knows the truth about it.

When you see somebody and you think you love that person: is it the truth OR a point of view OR both.

Why wouldn't God be like that, the point of view we want to be truth, because we need it.

The essence of God is maybe not his knowledge, the place he lives or the kind of soul/energy he is. The essence of God that matters to us, would rather be the STATE OF BEING he has achieved, and which we are seeking to KNOW.

Would one care about God, if one reached the final/ultimate state of happiness, bliss, knowing, loving, etc ? Would GOD still be the 1 thing we seek and worship and put on a pedestal ?

I think, God matters to us, because he is a symbol of what we try to achieve ourselves.

God symbolizes a quest of our own, and many --I believe -- seek to KNOW him, to improve their own path, but maybe nobody walks the same path in life and maybe HE is the one that already made his harsh trip to knowledge (What do we know, of what he went through?) and KNOWS that nobody can help you on that trip, just as nobody can be in YOUR position, or have YOUR feelings and thoughts.

That is what makes us unique, each one of us. That is what makes us alone, but also a defined part of a greater whole, that we named God.

Of course, that is all a belief/thought of mine, but I like to share it.

Sonia

Alan,

Yes, your last post is on the right track.  The strength of claiming that God is the ground of being rather than a particular being is this: it holds the key to the mind-numbing question, "Why is there something rather than nothing at all?"  The weakness of this claim is our inability to explain exactly what it means to say that the ground of all being is neither a particular being nor All That Is.  Perhaps the right question at this point is this: How can Divine Mind transcend time and space?  We can't imagine a particular being existing without imagining it as enduring.  If it endures, it must endure through time to some extent.  So if it is truly timeless, then it cannot "endure" at all and hence cannot even "exist" in any meaningful sense of that word.  It's as if Divine Mind has an infinite number of creative thoughts, each of which is timeless, has nor duration, and hence does not exist, but rather grounds all existence in the sense that divine thoughts can manifest as particular enduring realities!  But now I'm talking way over my head!  

Don