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What is God? (Read 17408 times)
Alan McDougall
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Re: What is God?
Reply #30 - Sep 5th, 2008 at 12:48pm
 
Surprise Don.

No one really knows the EXACT Hebrew meaning, except you of course

Here are just a few takes on that enigmatic name lost deep in the mysteries of the ancient tribe of Hebrews

From Wikk
Basically, when God says, "I am that I am," he is giving the translation of what the word "Yahweh" means. In other words, he is saying "My name is the fact that I exist." Etymologically, the word "Yahweh" is related to words that mean "to be" or "to create."

The meaning of the name YHWH is not very clear, and therefor subject to much debate. The key scene in this respect seems to be Ex 3:13-15, where God names Himself first:  (I Am Who I Am), then  (I Am), and finally  (YHWH) and states that this is his name forever and a memorial name to all generations.

It has been long supposed that YHWH is derived from the verb that is used to make I Am, namely  (haya 491) to be, to become, to happen, or rather from an older form and rare synonym of haya, namely  , hawa, hence y-hawa or yahweh, the proper imperfect of the verb, thus rendering the name either Being or He Is. (But note that the Hebrew language is far more dynamic than our modern languages. The verb to be indicates an action that intimately reveals the nature of the one who is doing the acting.)

On the other hand, perhaps the name YHWH means Tom, Dick or Harry in a language that has slipped out of the collective human consciousness and we are left with the echo's of a revelation that was as sincere and confidential as the word abba: daddy.

The divine name YHWH pronounced "Yahweh" means: "I FOREVER WAS, I FOREVER WILL BE", as He continued to reply to Moses/Moshe's question within Ex 3:15 / Shem 3:15 by also saying "this is My Name Forever" = "I Will Be Forever". Another correct translation of His name is: "I always was, I always will be", or " I Was and I Will Be Forever". (They all have the same meanings)
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Re: What is God?
Reply #31 - Sep 5th, 2008 at 2:17pm
 
Oh Don, How I have missed your opinions. The fact that you dismiss what you call "new age view of God" truly shows how closed minded your religious beliefs must be. Or am I just reading you all wrong? Is what you are trying to say is that your beliefs are closer to the truth than mine? You belief in God stronger? Your choices better? Well then you should have your own church so that you have the opportunity to gather as many sheep as you can to follow you to your heaven. Perhaps I will see you there when I pass through F25. Oh yes, you do have the church of Don don't you? Perhaps Don, we are both right. Perhaps I am a reflection of God. No less, no more. Perhaps God is an just as you place him/her, above all others and everything. Perhaps, just perhaps, there is your God and there is also my God. By the way can you say "Christian fundamentalist"?
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Re: What is God?
Reply #32 - Sep 5th, 2008 at 2:23pm
 
I love that we have the freedom to share our opinions here. How fortunate we are to have this freedom of religious beliefs. In the long run, we will most likely be correct in all of our opinions.
Joe
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Re: What is God?
Reply #33 - Sep 5th, 2008 at 3:12pm
 
[color=#000000]Hawkeye

From your post
Quote:
[color=#0000ff]You belief in God stronger? Your choices better? Well then you should have your own church so that you have the opportunity to gather as many sheep as you can to follow you to your heaven. Perhaps I will see you there when I pass through F25. Oh yes, you do have the church of Don don't you? Perhaps Don


I really think, however, no one can claim knowledge about the Infinite like he does. "Your idea is just as valid as any person and God is the God of your understanding"

What really angers me if with I hear puffed up so call experts pontificating that God, will god will do this if you did that, god is this god is that, this pleases god that does not, give to god and he will reward you a hundred fold

God is who he is and he IS  and will act and react exactly as he/she wants to, without asking our permission. He is the boss and the buck of accountability stops with him

We are finite beings (at present) and God is infinite, so, therefore we must be much closer to a cockroach than to God the Infinite.

So I dismiss anyone telling me like Don does that God is thus. He is beyond human comprehension and we can only comprehend what he allows us to comprehend.

I see all human ideas about God and exactly who is really is as just subjective speculation.. Of course we all have a grasp of minor truths about existence and how it came to be.

I understand that given that Don is a minister of the church he feels compelled to preach to the forum and I like this, without debate and dialogue the forum would die

Alan
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Re: What is God?
Reply #34 - Sep 5th, 2008 at 3:16pm
 
Alan,

Exodus 3:14 provides an analogy for the God name "Yahweh" insofar as this name derives from the Hebrew verb "to be."  But "Yahweh" is not borrowed from Exodus 3:14 and is not an equivalent of "I AM."  In Hebrew grammar, it is the hiphil (causative) for of the verb "to be:" i. e. "He causes to be" or "creates." 

The Bible often speaks as if God "exists."  But to prevent Moses from identifying God with a particular being with an identifiable fixed essence, God evades the request for a name and instead offers the phrase "I am who I am" or, better, "I will be whoever I will be."  As the ground of all being, God reserves the right to manifest in countless ways to people of other faiths and cultures.  (Amos 9:7).  Because God is the ground of our being, "in God we live and move and have our being (Acts 17:28)."

Your allusion to "all in all" in ! Corinthians 15:29 betrays a lack of knowledge of Greek idioms.  The Greek phrase in question (panta en pasin) is an idiom which is rightly translated by the New Living Translation: "...so that God will be utterly supreme over everything everywhere (1 Corinthians 15:29)." 

As for your insinuations that the biblical God is worshiped because of a preceived ego problem involving God's needs "needs:"  Human hands can't serve God's needs; for He has no needs (Acts 17:25)."

Alan: "I am further along the path of life than you."  OK!
Alan: "No, most of them [church people] are just taking pride in how beautiful they sing."
__________________________________________________________

You are merely projecting your own cynical bias on to people you don't know.  I hate to break this to you, Alan, but most parishioners are self-conscious about how inadequately they sing.   That is why it is so hard to recruit new members for a small choir.  Aware of theirlimitations, they humbly sing in rapt adoration to offer themselves up in gratitude to the God who loves them just the way they are and is a living helpful force in their lives.  Non-Christian newcomers are converted because they sense the sweetness of God's Spirit in the warmth, the singing, and the prayer support of the services. 

Let me give you just one of many examples.  Jon was a well-educated gay, Jewish agnostic jazz band leader addicted to cocaine.  He needed a few extra bucks and so he volunteered to be our organist/ pianist for a little while in one of my prior churches after our organist died.   He was so blown away by the sense of love he felt during the worship,
by the sense of God's presence, and by the miracles experienced by his gay friends there that he joined the church and recently invited me back for his baptism.  Jon was motivated to clean up his cocaine addiction on his own and remains a loyal member of that chruch 13 years later.

I take it that you accept what I said about Judges 1:19.

Don
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Re: What is God?
Reply #35 - Sep 5th, 2008 at 4:02pm
 
Hello Alan,

I am happy that we can share opinions here.

Alan McDougall wrote on Sep 3rd, 2008 at 7:46pm:
I also can’t see God as some arrogant Supreme Sovereign being needing us to praise and sing to him day and night. Why must we constantly assure God that he is the greatest thing ever, He does not need his ego stroked and he simple knows he is what he is without pride coming into the equation

I really like your post and take about what God is to you. I often say ones God is the God of their understanding and your belief about him/her is beautiful indeed

God could give us all knowledge just as you stated but he will not do so until he is sure we can handle it correctly, don’t you agree?

And you make a very valid point about God evolving. As the creator he must be evolving with his creation

Like I stated in my reply to Don , we are made from "GODSTUFF" but separated as sentient beings who love and adore him as mother and father of everything

God to me is the primordial mind, the Fist Thinker he that perceives and creates

Much love

Thank you for a nice well thought out  response

Love

Alan


QUOTING ALAN:
God could give us all knowledge just as you stated but he will not do so until he is sure we can handle it correctly, don’t you agree?

Yes, I agree that I believe God could give us all knowledge, BUT I don't think he checks whether we can handle it correctly. I think he would prefer that we would handle it correctly, unfortunately, the choice is not upto him. If he could always be sure that we could handle everything, I think there would be no murder, no suicide, no theft,... to summarize there wouldn't be no crime, nor hurt.

If supposedly, we are parts of God that don't know themselves, we suffer the consequences of our ignorance in our actions. Ignorance leads to mistakes. Human mistakes, by definition, are contrario to the nature of the soul, which is to be loving and bring happiness and good. The contrary of love, good and happiness, etc. IS hatred, war, evil and suffering, etc.

Quoting myself:
If supposedly, we are parts of God that don't know themselves, we suffer the consequences of our ignorance in our actions.


If we are probes of curiosity, there must be something to be curious about. Curiosity is a result of lack of knowledge about a certain matter. Lack of knowledge = ignorance.

QUOTING ALAN:
And you make a very valid point about God evolving. As the creator he must be evolving with his creation


Actually, I am not as sure about that as I seem to be. How do you define evolution. Evolution means change. Suppose you would master PUL at the highest level (like God for example). You can only learn to master it even better by watching others make mistakes, but in fact in essence you already ARE PUL. Evolving and learning to practice a craft better you already know is a different thing to me.

QUOTING ALAN:
Like I stated in my reply to Don , we are made from "GODSTUFF" but separated as sentient beings who love and adore him as mother and father of everything


I believe we adore him, because he IS what we want and need AND because we lack it here.

I believe that God is asked a lot (In prayers, we ask him to get this, to get that, etc.), but how many of us wonder if God feels loved, if he feels happy. How many of us, give him something spiritually by free will, other than what he learns from us by hearing our thoughts (since he must be a gifted psychic, I believe) and through compassion for our state.

If we really adored him the way we should, we would all create a world in accordance to our real nature: which is our will to be happy, good and loving.

Instead, society just most often reaches for the first thing listed: happiness for itself, not looking at the damage it makes, creating that happiness. You start to be good, when you start to act lovingly, on the whole line. This means, when you start to create happiness for EVERYBODY and not just an small elite. Society, as a whole, has not learned that yet.

QUOTING ALAN:
God to me is the primordial mind, the Fist Thinker he that perceives and creates


I would like to nuance my point of view. I believe creation is a partnership:

God first thinks of a model (like Earth-Life System) to generate a certain type of experience. Then souls choose to enter that reality and modify it again, through there believes. We are as much responsible of our evolution as is God.

I think that, no matter how much suffering we create, one day we will we forced to get rid of wrong believe-patterns (and behaviors due to that). BUT for the moment, when society changes a pattern, it is mostly not out of LOVE, but out of necessity (to avoid a war, to get the economy better, to improve diplomacy, etc...) but too often not for the people.

The system gets more support than the people who are part of that system. The reason for that is, that the system is exploited by people who need that system, to match their believes (eg. a famous politician needs to keep his power, to gain more money and power. When he has power he feels safe and can give himself the illusion he is loved, because he feels needed. This means he will support this system, to create his happiness. Companies support him, because he will help them vote laws that will be good for their company. The chief of the company needs that to earn a lot of money to buy a yacht, a house, school for his daughter, to please his wife with diamonds. His wife needs diamonds to impress the jetset. Her daughter needs the jetset to become a famous actress. She wants to be adored for her talents as an actress, etc...and because she feels unloved because her father is constantly working and having dinner with famous politicians. Etc...)

The system is not God's will, but a combination of consequences of choices, which have consequences, etc....like a stone thrown in the water, you see the waves expand.

We might be expansions of God, until we've fulfilled our curiosity.


OTHER THINGS:
I think there are as many realms in God's world as their are beliefs and ways of being.

There are realms for people who do not believe in God, but does it proove God does not exist?

God does not dictate what to believe, he leaves it upto us to discover our nature through experience. God can be a place, a soul, etc.

The concept of God has become so high, we've lost touch with it. I think we shouldn't put that concept on some kind of pedestal, or believe 1 religion or belief knows the truth about it.

When you see somebody and you think you love that person: is it the truth OR a point of view OR both.

Why wouldn't God be like that, the point of view we want to be truth, because we need it.

The essence of God is maybe not his knowledge, the place he lives or the kind of soul/energy he is. The essence of God that matters to us, would rather be the STATE OF BEING he has achieved, and which we are seeking to KNOW.

Would one care about God, if one reached the final/ultimate state of happiness, bliss, knowing, loving, etc ? Would GOD still be the 1 thing we seek and worship and put on a pedestal ?

I think, God matters to us, because he is a symbol of what we try to achieve ourselves.

God symbolizes a quest of our own, and many --I believe -- seek to KNOW him, to improve their own path, but maybe nobody walks the same path in life and maybe HE is the one that already made his harsh trip to knowledge (What do we know, of what he went through?) and KNOWS that nobody can help you on that trip, just as nobody can be in YOUR position, or have YOUR feelings and thoughts.

That is what makes us unique, each one of us. That is what makes us alone, but also a defined part of a greater whole, that we named God.

Of course, that is all a belief/thought of mine, but I like to share it.

Sonia
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Re: What is God?
Reply #36 - Sep 6th, 2008 at 1:32am
 
Hi,

There are comprehensive replies that  must give proper thought to before replying,in full.

Don in your post your said

Th Quote:
e Bible often speaks as if God "exists."  But to prevent Moses from identifying God with a particular being with an identifiable fixed essence, God evades the request for a name and instead offers the phrase "I am who I am" or, better, "I will be whoever I will be."  As the ground of all being, God reserves the right to manifest in countless ways to people of other faiths and cultures.  (Amos 9:7).  Because God is the ground of our being, "in God we live and move and have our being (Acts 17:28)."


In response to the above statement, I agree completely. I do not see God as a being of some sort but he/she the Mind that pervades all existence or creation if you like.

This primordial Mind had to do something, it had to Think and to find words from which to begin creation. "In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the Word was GOD John verse 1 = Jesus the first Being "  indeed he is the Word of God" The second person of the triune God

Alan
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Re: What is God?
Reply #37 - Sep 6th, 2008 at 2:28am
 
Alan,

Yes, your last post is on the right track.  The strength of claiming that God is the ground of being rather than a particular being is this: it holds the key to the mind-numbing question, "Why is there something rather than nothing at all?"  The weakness of this claim is our inability to explain exactly what it means to say that the ground of all being is neither a particular being nor All That Is.  Perhaps the right question at this point is this: How can Divine Mind transcend time and space?  We can't imagine a particular being existing without imagining it as enduring.  If it endures, it must endure through time to some extent.  So if it is truly timeless, then it cannot "endure" at all and hence cannot even "exist" in any meaningful sense of that word.  It's as if Divine Mind has an infinite number of creative thoughts, each of which is timeless, has nor duration, and hence does not exist, but rather grounds all existence in the sense that divine thoughts can manifest as particular enduring realities!  But now I'm talking way over my head! Huh  

Don
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Re: What is God?
Reply #38 - Sep 6th, 2008 at 4:14am
 

Don in your post you said

Perhaps the right question at this point is this: How can Divine Mind transcend time and space?  We can't imagine a particular being existing without imagining it as enduring.  If it endures, it must endure through time to some extent.  So if it is truly timeless, then it cannot "endure" at all and hence cannot even "exist" in any meaningful sense of that word.  It's as if Divine Mind has an infinite number of creative thoughts, each of which is timeless, has nor duration, and hence does not exist, but rather grounds all existence in the sense that divine thoughts can manifest as particular enduring realities!  But now I'm talking way over my head
]
Quote:
Don in your post you said

Perhaps the right question at this point is this: How can Divine Mind transcend time and space?  We can't imagine a particular being existing without imagining it as enduring.  If it endures, it must endure through time to some extent.  So if it is truly timeless, then it cannot "endure" at all and hence cannot even "exist" in any meaningful sense of that word.  It's as if Divine Mind has an infinite number of creative thoughts, each of which is timeless, has nor duration, and hence does not exist, but rather grounds all existence in the sense that divine thoughts can manifest as particular enduring realities!  But now I'm talking way over my head



Now instead of parting at a crossroad of dispute we have found a place of convergence that will possibly allow us to dialogue meaningfully without putting one another down


Endure forever, infinite, eternal are concepts that make no sense when they are linked to linear time we inhabit as three dimensional mortal beings. I perceive God as that which exists in a place that Jesus said was heaven “Our Father who is in heaven”  God is also unlike us in that he inhabits infinite dimensions.

Thus heaven is somewhere else, not the universe. God must endure as you said from a platform of what I call the every changing NOW.

He must observe everything that has happened, that is happening will happen in the future. I am the Alpha the Omega, the First and the Last, He that was and is and is to come. This gives credence to my suggestion that God endures as the One who IS IS.

Using an analogy of a disturbance in a village involving the actions of running rampant around in the streets doing something.

A helicopter flies over the village and the observers in it can see the whole event in one time frame, from that observer platform.

The Bible says the Eye of God roams the earth seeking out what people are doing. God exist in what I call the Great Observer platform, observing all creations as one ever changing event.

The Observer Platform is Gods Holy Spirit, is it not he that now persuades man that he is in need of redemption. I know this is a very technical view but it is the best I can do as a Mechanical Engineer who has some understanding of Biblical truths

Another possibility is God observes everything like an unraveled movie reel frame by frame. Is this is true then he could see the whole picture of his creation, indeed from Alpha until the end of time Omega. This might sound a little silly, but after all creation is Gods movie is it not. The error with this idea is that it does not really allow for free will. The Calvinist will like this idea I think.

Of course using this analogy God could cut, edit and splice this huge creation movie, so that it does not take away free will.

By the way Don, which English version do you use, there are so many each claiming correct translation or interpretation

Regards

Alan
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Re: What is God?
Reply #39 - Sep 6th, 2008 at 6:29am
 
Lets lighten up  little

"I think we should ask liitle children what is about God"

You don't have to worry about me. I always look both ways. - Dean

I think the stapler is one of your greatest inventions. - Ruth M.

I think about you sometimes even when I'm not praying. - Elliott

I bet it is very hard for you to love all of everybody in the whole world. There are only 4 people in our family and I can never do it. - Nan

Of all the people who work for you I like Peter and John the best. - Rob

My brother told me about being born but it doesn't sound right. - Marsha

If you watch in church on Sunday I will show you my new shoes. - Mickey D.

I would like to live 900 years like the guy in the Bible. - Love, Chris

We read Thomas Edison made light. But in Sunday school they said you did it. So I bet he stoled your idea. - Sincerely, Donna

I do not think anybody could be a better God. Well, I just want you to know but I am not just saying that because you are God. - Charles

I didn't think orange went with purple until I saw the sunset you made on Tuesday. That was cool. - Eugene

I don't ever feel alone since I found out about you. - Nora

In Sunday school they told us what you do. Who does it when you are on vacation? - Jane

I read the Bible. What does begat mean? Nobody will tell me. - Love, Alison

Are you really invisible or is that just a trick? - Lucy

Is it true my father won't get in Heaven if he uses his bowling words in the house? - Anita

Did you mean for the giraffe to look like that or was it an accident? - Norma

Instead of letting people die and having to make new ones, why don't you just keep the ones you got now? - Jane

Who draws the lines around the countries? - Nan

I went to this wedding and they kissed right in church. Is that okay? - Neil

What does it mean you are a jealous God? I thought you had everything. - Jane

Did you really mean do unto others as they do unto you, because if you did then I'm going to fix my brother. - Darla

Thank you for the baby brother, but what I prayed for was a puppy. - Joyce

It rained for our whole vacation and is my father mad! He said some things about you that people are not supposed to say, but I hope you will not hurt him anyway. - Your friend, but I am not going to tell you who I am

Why is Sunday school on Sunday? I thought it was supposed to be our day of rest. - Tom L.



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Re: What is God?
Reply #40 - Sep 6th, 2008 at 1:17pm
 
Alan-- I remember a story that was told to me as a child. Some Saint??? who was a philosopher was walking along the ocean shore line asking the same question.  Who is God?  He became very perplexed.  He spotted a young child playing, scooping up waves and met up with him/her.  The child had a seashell and was running to the ocean, scooping up the water, running back to a hole and pouring the ocean water into the hole. He then repeated the action.  The "Saint" asked the child, "what are you doing?" The child responded --- I am going to scoop up all the water in the ocean and pour it into this hole.
The saint chuckled and said-- "My child, that's impossible".  The child looked up and said--- It's the same with your puzzle.
Then the child disappeared.
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Re: What is God?
Reply #41 - Sep 6th, 2008 at 1:38pm
 
Identicat,

I really like this little sweet story and will keep it. "Unless you become as a little child you will not see the kingdom of heaven" (childlike not childish)

Love

Alan
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Re: What is God?
Reply #42 - Apr 21st, 2016 at 3:21am
 
Have a look at this thread of mine from 2006
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