Conversation Board
https://afterlife-knowledge.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi
Forums >> Afterlife Knowledge >> Re Neale Donald Walsch's Group of 1000
https://afterlife-knowledge.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?num=1325109244

Message started by recoverer on Dec 28th, 2011 at 5:54pm

Title: Re Neale Donald Walsch's Group of 1000
Post by recoverer on Dec 28th, 2011 at 5:54pm
A guy wrote the below:

"His Humanity's Team has a something called The Group of 1000, an exclusive group who get the honor of giving Neale 10% of their income. A former member of The Group of 1000 said, "What did we get in return? A group phone call once a month from Walsch where we were made to listen to his goings on about keeping it up, keep it coming, and how Walsch was enjoying himself travelling and taking cruises."

Here's the link to the discussion.

http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?12,105356,page=2

I checked and such a set up exists. Not only does he make a ton of money for selling a lot of books, he has some people give him 10% of their salary.

The Conversations with God books might say some good things, but I figure that if the words actually came from God, then all of them would be true. Yet, his books have words that as far as I'm concerned, aren't accurate.

Therefore, I conclude that either Walsch is a huckster or a misleading being has been whispering words into his ears and he hasn't been wise enough to realize this. It may also be a matter of his being too wrapped up in the fame and riches to want to acknowledge what is actually taking place.

If what I concluded is true, does it bother people that one of key leaders of the new age movement is as Walsch is? If not, why are people so passive about all of this? Why do they allow the misleaders of this World and beyond to get away with what they get away with?

In the past I've stated that some teachings can lead to indifference. Does this fact relate to the fact that some people are so indifferent when it comes to people such as Walsch?

Is it possible that after they die, some people will have a life review and find that they were passive about things that they were hoping they wouldn't be passive about before they incarnated?

Will some people find that they became emotionally attached and mislead by teachings such as ACIM and Conversations with God to an extent that they lost touch with their ability to thoroughly question the authenticity of such teachings?






Title: Re: Re Neale Donald Walsch's Group of 1000
Post by Rondele on Dec 28th, 2011 at 7:10pm
Walsch has done essentially what Gary Renard (who wrote Disappearance of the Universe) also has done.

They both appropriated ACIM for their own purposes.  While Walsch claimed God was talking to him, Renard invented two ascended masters who he said actually visited him and who he claimed he taped but then destroyed the recordings.  How convenient....

When you read ACIM and then read what these two shysters wrote, it's obvious what they did.  They simply took the concepts of ACIM and rejiggered them to make it appear they were getting them first hand by either God or the "Masters."

People are so incredibly naive and/or so desperate to believe these characters that they simply suspend their judgement.

Taking 10% as Walsch is doing is disgraceful if not outright fraud.  Hopefully he'll go over the line and end up in the slammer where he belongs.

So here we have two spin-offs of a book that is, in itself, a clearly fraudulent work of fiction.

Sad huh.

R


Title: Re: Re Neale Donald Walsch's Group of 1000
Post by recoverer on Dec 28th, 2011 at 7:32pm
Rondelle:

I believe Gary Renard is a fraud who jumped aboard the ACIM gravy train.

Title: Re: Re Neale Donald Walsch's Group of 1000
Post by recoverer on Dec 28th, 2011 at 8:25pm
If Neal Donald Walsch did in fact communicate with God, then hypothetically he could've sat in front of a room of experts of varying subjects and would've been able to answer any question they asked accurately. Not only that, he would've been able to provide answers to questions the experts don't have the answer to.

He did no such thing. His books don't provide information that is beyond what mankind knows. They mainly provide philosophical viewpoints that could've been based on what Walsch had read in other books and what he thought of on his own. It is almost as if subjects an expert could've called him out on were avoided. Yet, he still makes mistakes such as comparing Jesus to unethical gurus who did things such as molest children.

The below is an example of when close scrutiny is needed while reading Walsch's words. A rushed approach might take place when a person is thinking in terms of seeing what the entire book has to say, rather than focusing all of his attention on what he is reading at the moment. My comments are within brackets. Walsch's words are proceeded by one dash, the supposed words of God are proceeded by two dashes


--nothing—without a reason understood and approved by God.

-How can this be? What of the evil which has been created by man?

--You cannot create a thing—not a thought, an object, an event—no experience of any kind which is outside of God’s plan. For God’s plan is for you to create anything—everything—whatever you want. [How about when little children are forced into prostitution? Is that a part of God's plan or do some people use their free will in very ugly ways?] In such freedom lies the experience of God being God—and this is the experience for which I created You. And life itself. Evil is that which you call evil. Yet even that I love, for it is "only" through that which you call evil that you can know good; "only" through that which you call the work of the devil that you can know and do the work of God. [I placed the word "only" within quotation marks because even though I understand that to some degree contrast is what makes existence work (e.g., you couldn't understand about humility without also understanding about arrogance), the way the word "only" is used seems to overemphasize the importance of evil.] I do not love hot more than I love cold, high more than low, left more than right. It is all relative. It is all part of what is. I do not love “good” more than I love “bad.” [I find it hard to believe that these last 2 sentences came from God. I love it when one person treats another with love and respect. I can't stand it when one person treats another cruelty. This isn't a matter of my being a spiritually immature ignoramus. It it's just that when I listen to my heart and common sense it seems quite natural to prefer positive behavior to negative behavior. To me the concept of a God who doesn't understand the difference between people treating each other with love rather than cruelly is preposterous.] Hitler went to heaven. [There is a lot of evidence that shows that people like Hitler end up in lower realms after they die. I had some experiences that seemed to suggest that Hitler ended up in a lower realm after he died.] When you understand this, you will understand God.

-But I have been raised to believe that good and bad do exist; that right and wrong are opposed; that some things are not okay, not alright, not acceptable in the sight of God.

--Everything is “acceptable” in the sight of God, for how can God not accept that which is? To reject a thing is to deny that it exists. To say that it is not okay is to say that it is not a part of Me—and that is impossible. [This way of thinking is really illogical, yet it is a way of thinking that some people might mistakenly get caught up in. Say there is a lady who is being beaten by her husband. You don't have to accept what is taking place in order to acknowledge that it is taking place. My feeling is that God is a very loving being who doesn't judge others, yet he is sane and balanced enough to not like it when one life form treats another cruelly. There is such a thing as negative/wrong/self-serving/bad/evil action.]

Title: Re: Re Neale Donald Walsch's Group of 1000
Post by Lucy on Dec 29th, 2011 at 2:14am
Albert

It isn't that I want to defend Walsch or Renard, it is that I get the feeling you think that if I don't jump on your Condemnation Wagon then I am supporting them.

If I were arguing with you in person, we would probably be butting heads like two rams.

You make me feel like you condemn these people and if I don't agree with you, you condemn me!  I don't care what you say, that is how your words make me feel. And you just won't listen when people tell you things like that because YOUR mind is just as made up as are the minds of the people who have chosen to support Walsch and Renard.

It's like you think, if I'm not with you then I must be against you.

Title: Re: Re Neale Donald Walsch's Group of 1000
Post by Lucy on Dec 29th, 2011 at 2:39am

Quote:
If what I concluded is true, does it bother people that one of key leaders of the new age movement is as Walsch is? If not, why are people so passive about all of this? Why do they allow the misleaders of this World and beyond to get away with what they get away with?


The so-called New Age Movement is about as organized as the Occupy Wall Street movement has turned out to be, and represents quite an amalgam of ideas. I also think of the phrase "new age movement" as SOOO  twentieth century!  Kind of like bell bottoms....  I am grateful to the movement for creating a space where many different ideas could/can be openly discussed and different lifestyles lived openly, or at least more openly.

passive about this..
most people I know don't even know who Walsch is. I forget, you live on that other coast! it is different here in the east. Maybe that is why I have a different perspective. I really don't have that in my day-to-day life.

allow Misleaders of the world to get away wth what they get away with...
when i came in to work tonight, my Muslim coworker who is from a middle eastern country was watching scenes from the funeral of that guy who just died in North Korea. We were expressing amazement, in different ways, of the way the North Koreans were mourning the loss of the dictator they saw as a father figure. How could they cry at his death??? Though we come from very different backgrounds, my coworker and I could agree on how strange that was, but also express some understanding of how brainwashing works.

I don't think we have a good understanding of how the psyche works..I'm in the cave trying to make theories based on seeing shadows....there is something we all need to experience at some time or other in giving too much credence to a person who has clay feet.

At the same time, don't we all want to be in the presence of someone who is transformed? Energy is contagious. I was reading something just yesterday about why the guru system works at all: because sometimes there is transference of energy from teacher to student. The Christians use this too. Even the Protestants. When the deacons were ordained in my church (mundane Presbyterians) there was a laying on of hands. It took me a long time to understand that that was supposed to be a literal transfer of the experience of the Holy Spirit from the person doing the ordination to the person being ordaned. I think sometimes it actually works. That is enough to keep the practice going.

So maybe what these people who have been giving money to these authors think is that they will get the energy this way. Maybe what they have to learn is that you can't buy it that way.

What I don't get is that you have had all these incredible experiences and yet you still seem to be so limited in certain ways. I guess that just means it's a long climb to the top of the mountain.

Title: Re: Re Neale Donald Walsch's Group of 1000
Post by Lucy on Dec 29th, 2011 at 2:41am

Quote:
They both appropriated ACIM for their own purposes.


Isn't this the way it all works?

I always thought all the Christian religions did the same thing with Jesus' teachings. So it just represents a pattern of the way the world works.

Title: Re: Re Neale Donald Walsch's Group of 1000
Post by Lights of Love on Dec 29th, 2011 at 12:23pm
Albert, I'm certainly not a supporter of NDW.  I am with Lucy on this plus when you say you've checked something/someone out you expect people to take your word for it when in fact the facts you present may or may not be factual!  Many times they seem to be based on your own bias.  You find something you already believe and take it as fact without checking other resources.  By doing this are you not participating in the promotion of delusion yourself?

This is from NDW's facebook page:

"The Group of 1000 is an activist group which tithes its time and money and spiritual energy to creating the possibility of a new spirituality's emerging on the planet. You have pledged 1% of your income, 1% of your time each month, you've promised to touch 1% of the people in your life with this message, and you've committed to doing this for a full year."

That said, this group of 1000 looks more like a sales gimmick than anything else. 

As Lucy says... patterns, repeating patterns, etc., etc.  The deluded will always have followers as they seek to define themselves as individuals.  Haven't we all been deluded at one time or another?  Experience and the feedback we receive from those experiences is what teaches us most effectively.



Title: Re: Re Neale Donald Walsch's Group of 1000
Post by recoverer on Dec 29th, 2011 at 2:00pm
Regarding the 1% Kathy versus the 10% I referred to, according the below link 10% is true.


http://www.shareguide.com/Walsch2.html

The relevant part says:

"Lastly, you can join The Group of 1,000 (www.thegroupof1000.com). This is if you consider yourself to be highly committed, deeply motivated, and extraordinarily dedicated to assisting in the process of changing the world’s most fundamental beliefs about God, about life, and about each other. The Group of 1,000 will act as the prime source of spiritual, physical and financial support for Humanity’s Team. This is a very high level of commitment which involves pledging 10% of your income to help empower a magnificent and multifold agenda. There’s a lot more information about all of these organizations online."

I don't know how Walsch goes about choosing the 1,000, but let's assume their salaries average out to $50,000 a year. 50k x 10% = 5k. 5k x 1,000 = $5,000,000 a year that he collects from people.



Title: Re: Re Neale Donald Walsch's Group of 1000
Post by recoverer on Dec 29th, 2011 at 2:19pm
Say your dad dies, he was famous, and then some guy claims to channel him and makes lots of money doing so? Would you have to have judgmental thoughts towards him in ordered to be annoyed by what he does? Of course not.

That's how it is with me and Walsch. I don't feel judgmental towards him. I've helped retrieve souls that have done much worse things than him. Nevertheless, it bugs me when a guy claims to channel God when he doesn't. It bugs me when a guy with self-serving motives misleads lots of people.

Sure sometimes people learn the hard way by getting involved with people such as Walsch, but they wouldn't have to do so as near as much as they do if it wasn't for the fact that users like Walsch exist.

To say that everybody has to get involved with a false source like Walsch in order to learn discrimination is like saying everybody needs to become a drug addict in order to learn that it isn't good to be one.

I don't want to have to step on somebody's toes, but such a lack of desire shouldn't end up becoming a plus for people such as Walsch.

One of the reasons I don't like some of the words Walsch attributes to God is because they are too tolerant. Consider the matter of sex. I don't believe that things should be repressive to an extent where women have to do something such as cover up their faces. On the other hand society has become too free and obsessed with sexuality. There's too much of an anything goes attitude.

When you go too far with an anything goes attitude you can lose touch with the sacredness behind things. You might even lose the ability to think of God as a sacred being, and just sweep it under the carpet when somebody falsely claims to channel him. Doesn't God, in whatever manner he exists, deserve some loyalty?


Title: Re: Re Neale Donald Walsch's Group of 1000
Post by Lights of Love on Dec 29th, 2011 at 2:40pm

recoverer wrote on Dec 29th, 2011 at 2:00pm:
Regarding the 1% Kathy versus the 10% I referred to, according the below link 10% is true.


http://www.shareguide.com/Walsch2.html

The relevant part says:

"Lastly, you can join The Group of 1,000 (www.thegroupof1000.com). This is if you consider yourself to be highly committed, deeply motivated, and extraordinarily dedicated to assisting in the process of changing the world’s most fundamental beliefs about God, about life, and about each other. The Group of 1,000 will act as the prime source of spiritual, physical and financial support for Humanity’s Team. This is a very high level of commitment which involves pledging 10% of your income to help empower a magnificent and multifold agenda. There’s a lot more information about all of these organizations online."

I don't know how Walsch goes about choosing the 1,000, but let's assume their salaries average out to $50,000 a year. 50k x 10% = 5k. 5k x 1,000 = $5,000,000 a year that he collects from people.


Sorry Albert, but I'm more inclined to believe something that is posted on a website NDW himself is responsible for than a website owned and operated by someone else.  Perhaps the 10% that website states is a misprint or typo... or maybe they suck you in at 1% with the intention of getting 10% from you. No doubt you'd believe the latter.

Sorry I forgot to post the link in my earlier post.
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=17574385190


Title: Re: Re Neale Donald Walsch's Group of 1000
Post by recoverer on Dec 29th, 2011 at 2:58pm
Kathy:

I can't acces the link while at work, but thank you for providing. Yes, it probably makes more sense to go by what his facebook page says than what the site I provided a link for says. If you use the calculations I provided before he gets $500,000 a year rather than $5,000,000. I don't know how much he gets from his books, but they probably wouldn't sell as well if they were called, "Conversations with My Self."

Title: Re: Re Neale Donald Walsch's Group of 1000
Post by Lights of Love on Dec 29th, 2011 at 3:03pm

recoverer wrote on Dec 29th, 2011 at 2:58pm:
I don't know how much he gets from his books, but they probably wouldn't sell as well if they were called, "Conversations with My Self."


LOL ;D  I concur!

Title: Re: Re Neale Donald Walsch's Group of 1000
Post by recoverer on Dec 29th, 2011 at 3:23pm
Because I find it odd that according to an interview Walsch himself said the Group of 1000 requires a 10% tithing, I decided to do some more research. I found the below link. A person who was involved with Walsch said the following:

"However at the event there was no space for us common folk to speak in any impactful way. After the event they funneled those of us who were passionate about changing the world into their ongoing cash cow that they called The Group of 1000. 1000 people that were going to be empowered and supported in efforts to change the world. At least that was the pitch. In order to be a part of this illustrious group we were made to pay 10% of our total income to participate! What did we get in return? A group phone call once a month from Walsch where we were made to listen to his goings on about keeping it up, keep it coming, and how Walsch was enjoying himself travelling and taking cruises.

...

So first I coughed up the $600 for their meeting in New York. Which it turned out was not a spiritual meeting of the minds, but rather a very controlled event of being exposed to a pre-planned format that went over their pre-established doctrines in a random and goalless fashion. I even watched them kick out an entire group of people who were there representing A Course In Miracles, I suppose because they had their own message, and Neale and Humanity's Team apparently have no space for the opinions of others as it seems these groups and people are competing to help people and the world.

After the event they milked us further by insisting that we send them 10% of our total monthly income! With this I thought that this must be a serious group of individuals and that we must be a part of something that is going to give us the power to change our world as they had hyped it up as. After many months of paying my 10% a month, and after many of our once a month conference calls, it slowly began to dawn on me that I had been deceived. It took so long to catch on I suppose because I truly wanted to believe in this group and never could have imagined that they would stoop so low as to use our passion to scam us for money. This 10% of our income coming from who knows how many people for who knows how long must have been like winning the lottery for Neale and Humanity's Team. That was free money that they received with no responsibility on their part to deliver anything of value in return. We simply paid on faith. And we received nothing in return. No power, no way to share, no encouragement, no discussion. It's as though they truly believed that we just wanted to give them money for the ramblings on that they had already introduced. That is not what I was supporting. I was supporting the progression of what should have been a very important movement. Instead they worked us up for a period of time, took a ton of free money, and then later on they changed their tune and recessed back into the wood work of advice giving to individuals instead of addressing the very real unaddressed issues of this world.

While I was stranded in NY paying my 10% and working to get back to my home town I was paid a visit by one of the members of Humanity's Team. It was a girl from the UK that I had met at the event. She was in the states and she said she wanted to meet up with me. I thought since no one else was approaching me personally that this could be the liaison representing the group in talking to me so I accepted her invitation. She was no liaison and in fact she represented nothing but her own intentions. I spent another $600 on her thinking that that relationship would be the way that I communicate with the group. She called me a few times after our meeting and in one of our calls she told me that Neale was coming over to her house. She said it in such a way where I was made to assume that this was in a way a debriefing of her encounter with me. I don't believe that was her initial intention or that she was sent to do that, however that is what it became. Like a bunch of teenage girls this group began whispering their little gossip in secret corners. I suppose that's okay as long as it leads to the group owning up to the reasons behind their actions. But they never did. That little girl was the only one who had the courage to speak to me directly and the rest of my interactions with the group involved them sneaking around but never being able to say a word to me directly."



http://www.ripoffreport.com/rescue-mission/neale-donald-walsch/neale-donald-walsch-humanity-s-5668f.htm


Title: Re: Re Neale Donald Walsch's Group of 1000
Post by Lights of Love on Dec 29th, 2011 at 4:22pm
Good Grief Albert! 

That link is from the website you posted in your first post.  I saw it and read it earlier.  Who's to say this guy isn't someone just like you... posting a bunch of BS for his own reasons.  It doesn't make it true.  It's all gossip!  The truth is you don't know the truth because you have not experienced it firsthand, so why gossip about it?  Or is it your intention to delude people?

Title: Re: Re Neale Donald Walsch's Group of 1000
Post by OutOfBodyDude on Dec 29th, 2011 at 4:37pm
I strongly believe that rather than becoming totally brainwashed by these questionable sources, most people do as I do, which is take from it what they need without needing to worship the material. 

The fact that anything (including authors and their words) causes negativity in someone clearly shows that there is an underlying issue that needs to be worked on, as those in the vibration of Christ Consciousness operate from a state of love and acceptance, and there is little love and acceptance in a state of botheration.  In other words, if one allows something as unimportant as a book or a group of donators to bring them out of a higher state of being, then they are choosing to be misaligned with the Christ.  It is possible to transform negativity and falseness through light, rather than through more negativity.   :)

Title: Re: Re Neale Donald Walsch's Group of 1000
Post by recoverer on Dec 29th, 2011 at 4:51pm
Not to suggest that I'm at Christ Consciousness level, but I don't believe that Christ Consciousness and doing nothing goes together.

I've had meditations where I am in this bliss state and my higher self/spirit guidance starts showing me imagery of various things including negative things. The negative things didn't trouble me because during such meditations I was at a level of being where I couldn't be harmed.

This doesn't mean that the troublesome things I see aren't negative. If we want to be a fully integrated being we just can't repose ourselves with in our inner bliss. We need to open ourselves to a love that inspires us to be concerned for others even if we feel inwardly content.

I'd rather be judged by others to be Mr. Negative rather than sit by and do "NOTHING" as the misleaders of this World get away with deceiving many spiritual seekers.

Mr. negative himself: "Albert I'll bliss out when it's time to do so Haust."




I Am Dude wrote on Dec 29th, 2011 at 4:37pm:
I strongly believe that rather than becoming totally brainwashed by these questionable sources, most people do as I do, which is take from it what they need without needing to worship the material. 

The fact that anything (including authors and their words) causes negativity in someone clearly shows that there is an underlying issue that needs to be worked on, as those in the vibration of Christ Consciousness operate from a state of love and acceptance, and there is little love and acceptance in a state of botheration.  In other words, if one allows something as unimportant as a book or a group of donators to bring them out of a higher state of being, then they are choosing to be misaligned with the Christ.  It is possible to transform negativity and falseness through light, rather than through more negativity.   :)


Title: Re: Re Neale Donald Walsch's Group of 1000
Post by recoverer on Dec 29th, 2011 at 4:56pm
Here's another person's thoughts about Walsch. Further below is the link.

"Neale isn't offering any new cutting edge philosophy, the criticism of him isn't because he's being 'persecuted' for his great ideas. He is a charlatan, he promotes a rather creepy moral relativism and claims to speak with/for God himself. I think he had a Mr. Rushmore-sized ego to begin with and he is quite openly materalistic and greedy. I saw an interview with him and he was showing off his new $800 boots and saying how he didn't feel guilty about buying them because God wants us to have whatever we want (and he knows what God wants!)

He also promotes cheating on one's spouse because he, sorry, God says it's much worse to cheat oneself out of having as much sex as possible than to betray your marriage vows. He promotes moral relativism and the idea that by thinking the right thoughts you can pull yourself out of poverty (poverty is your own fault, you just chose it and you can just as easily un-choose it). He also blames victims of sexual abuse for 'attracting' the abuse and says there are 'no victims or villians' in life. Standard New Age B.S.

There is a new movie out about him that I think is trying to capitalize on The Secret's success called "Introducing Neale Donald Walsch: God's Latest Scribe?" (2009). I came across it yesterday on Amazon.com. I'm trying to sell my old Abraham-Hicks DVD's and since I did a search on pricing Amazon.com put it up as a DVD I might be intersteing in (no thanks!) I'm trying to put all that nonsense behind me, I hope people will wake up and stop giving up their personal power to these charlatans. Walsch IS a charlatan. Although he may not be as bad as a Warren Jeffs he still promotes a very destructive philosophy. I wasn't aware there were actual Humanity's Team group homes so it may be even worse than I thought. I know the OP was a few years ago, but I hope the poster's son has not given those large sums of money he withdrew to Humanity's Team or NDW and is doing OK."

http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?12,3654,47842

I don't believe the above poster was being negative. She was just sharing useful information with others.

Title: Re: Re Neale Donald Walsch's Group of 1000
Post by recoverer on Dec 29th, 2011 at 5:09pm
Kathy:

The link I provided isn't the same link I provided before.

Regarding the validity of the information that was posted, one needs to try to discern whether it is valid. To simply throw it out because it might not be valid--well, you really give the misleaders of this World a big  break if you dismiss what is said by people who claim to used to be associated with such misleaders.

It is also disrespectful and unloving towards people who out of the goodness of their hearts try to let people know about their experiences with misleading spiritual teachers. It reminds me of when a rape victim ends up becoming the accused.





Lights of Love wrote on Dec 29th, 2011 at 4:22pm:
Good Grief Albert! 

That link is from the website you posted in your first post.  I saw it and read it earlier.  Who's to say this guy isn't someone just like you... posting a bunch of BS for his own reasons.  It doesn't make it true.  It's all gossip!  The truth is you don't know the truth because you have not experienced it firsthand, so why gossip about it?  Or is it your intention to delude people?


Title: Re: Re Neale Donald Walsch's Group of 1000
Post by Lights of Love on Dec 29th, 2011 at 6:03pm
Albert I said the link is FROM the first web link you posted.  You sure are a hard case.  Click on the link in your first post which leads to a forum, scroll down and there is the link to that guys story. 

I'm sure he has his reasons for posting what he posted.  He certainly sounds a bit disgruntled to me, however I have no idea if what he says is true or not and neither do you.  To further promote and speculate is to attempt to mislead/delude people yourself.  It is all hearsay!

And to associate something like this with an abuse victim is way out of line.  I know a little something about that.

Title: Re: Re Neale Donald Walsch's Group of 1000
Post by OutOfBodyDude on Dec 29th, 2011 at 6:08pm
I feel that more service can be given by focusing on light rather than darkness.  You can show someone how to be weary of deception, and they may adopt a judgmental and untrusting mindset, or you can show someone how to be in their divine light, and the deceptions that come their way will be automatically eradicated through their knowing. 

Christ Consciousness is not passive, it is active and it is truth.  But there is an infinite variety of actions one can take in the moment, and not all of them are of this higher frequency.  One can complain about falseness and wrongdoings, or one can inspire through truth.  Having compassion for others does not necessitate adopting a negative mindset towards potential victimizers.  You said you feel bothered by these sources, and so have chosen to relinquish your inner contentment.  It does not have to be this way my friend!

   

Title: Re: Re Neale Donald Walsch's Group of 1000
Post by recoverer on Dec 29th, 2011 at 6:39pm
That isn't how I found the link. I found it during another search, so I didn't associate the truth.

Regarding fake guru victim versus fake rape victim it isn't quite the same thing. Nevertheless, I'm aware of a number of people who were good enough to let people know about the false spiritual teachers they were involved with, and they ended up being turned into the accused by people who didn't want to consider what they had to say.



Lights of Love wrote on Dec 29th, 2011 at 6:03pm:
Albert I said the link is FROM the first web link you posted.  You sure are a hard case.  Click on the link in your first post which leads to a forum, scroll down and there is the link to that guys story. 

I'm sure he has his reasons for posting what he posted.  He certainly sounds a bit disgruntled to me, however I have no idea if what he says is true or not and neither do you.  To further promote and speculate is to attempt to mislead/delude people yourself.  It is all hearsay!

And to associate something like this with an abuse victim is way out of line.  I know a little something about that.


Title: Re: Re Neale Donald Walsch's Group of 1000
Post by recoverer on Dec 29th, 2011 at 7:33pm
Goodness Dude, see my responses within brackets.



I Am Dude wrote on Dec 29th, 2011 at 6:08pm:
I feel that more service can be given by focusing on light rather than darkness.  [If a person has an issue that troubles him it isn't going to go away by ignoring it and focusing only on positive thoughts. He'll have to deal with the issue even if it causes him to experience something negative for a while. Similarly, the negative things of this World aren't going to away by ignoring them.  Constructive actions need to be taken even if doing so means one has to involve one's self with thoughts that aren't pleasant for a while.  The fact of how you don't seem to see this makes me wonder if you've been influenced by all is good, all is good, channeled sources in an unbalanced way more than you realize.]

You can show someone how to be weary of deception, and they may adopt a judgmental and untrusting mindset, or you can show someone how to be in their divine light, and the deceptions that come their way will be automatically eradicated through their knowing. [The judgemental part, that's your concept. You seem to be advocating the very common new age viewpoint that you can never say anything critical (accurate) about a new age source, because if you do you are being negative and judgmental. If people accessed "their knowing" to the extent they claim, so many false gurus and channelers wouldn't get away with the nonsense they get away with. A person can't truly live according to his inner light until he removes the clutter. If he is to afraid to look at this clutter because he wants to remain "positive" he'll never get around to removing it.]

Christ Consciousness is not passive, it is active and it is truth.  [I agree with this. This is one of the reasons I'm not passive when it comes to revealing frauds like Walsch.]

But there is an infinite variety of actions one can take in the moment, and not all of them are of this higher frequency.  One can complain about falseness and wrongdoings, or one can inspire through truth. [Complain? I believe this is quite a mischaracterization of what I'm doing. Please refer to my first comment on this post.]

This relates to my previous comments above about not Having compassion for others does not necessitate adopting a negative mindset towards potential victimizers. [If you want to disregard my statements on earlier posts on not having judgmental thoughts towards Walsch that's your choice. I will not be painted into the corner of accepting the premise that I can't say what is true about Walsh or another fraud because doing so supposedly means I am judgmental towards them.]

You said you feel bothered by these sources, and so have chosen to relinquish your inner contentment.  It does not have to be this way my friend! [You seem to be representing one of the things I dislike about sources such as nondual teachings, ACIM and CWG. Some of these teachings can get a person to be indifferent in some way by getting them to not acknowledge the problems that exist in this World. It does trouble me that teachings that get people to be indifferent are put on a pedestal. I don't mind being troubled because my unhappiness about the matter comes from the part of myself that loves and cares about others. As far as I am concerned, a state of being where one never feels distressed about the negative things that happen is not an advanced spiritual state. Rather, some people go for what is basically an "ignorance is bliss approach" that isn't in touch with reality at all levels in a harmonious way.

I don't believe that one needs to always focus one's attention to these problems, but there are occasions when it is appropriate to do so. As far as I'm concerned if a person wants to reach the  point where he can live according to love completely, then he needs to allow himself to become aware of the negativity that takes place in a way that inspires him to do something about it.

A while back we spoke about Eckart Tolle. I wrote a post stating that I would tune into what Tolle refers to as the now years ago.  When I did I felt more peace than if I went with the ramblings of my mind.  What I experience now when I do so is different than what I experienced years ago. The peace is deeper and the amount of love is more abundant. A part of the reason this is so is because I chose to look at unpleasant things that needed to be considered. 

Because of what I have found, I don't believe a person should not make the mistake of resting on his laurels and ignore what needs to be taken care of either personal or of this World, simply because he is able to experience some bliss now. The more we give our hearts to others, a choice that sometimes requires dynamic action, the deeper we'll be able to abide in that which is holy.]
   


Title: Re: Re Neale Donald Walsch's Group of 1000
Post by Lights of Love on Dec 29th, 2011 at 8:09pm
I agree with what Albert is saying above.  This world has a lot of problems that need to be addressed.  If someone is not part of the solution, then that person is part of the problem.

I'd just like to see a little more skepticism when it comes to the research being done.  Otherwise it accomplishes little else except to add to the falsity.


Title: Re: Re Neale Donald Walsch's Group of 1000
Post by recoverer on Dec 29th, 2011 at 8:27pm
Kathy:

By skepticism, I believe you mean the article I referred to where a person described being pressed for money by Walsch's organization. I agree that one shouldn't automatically assume that such allegations are correct.

Perhaps what is more material is the words Walsch attributes to God. If one considers them closely, it is less necessary to refer to what people say about their experiences with him (the same is true when discerning other sources). I've found that in some cases such an approach can be somewhat helpful, but usually not complete.

I provided some of the CWG words at the beginning of this thread with the thought that the words themselves can be examined.


Lights of Love wrote on Dec 29th, 2011 at 8:09pm:
I agree with what Albert is saying above.  This world has a lot of problems that need to be addressed.  If someone is not part of the solution, then that person is part of the problem.

I'd just like to see a little more skepticism when it comes to the research being done.  Otherwise it accomplishes little else except to add to the falsity.


Title: Re: Re Neale Donald Walsch's Group of 1000
Post by OutOfBodyDude on Dec 30th, 2011 at 3:52am

Quote:
Constructive actions need to be taken even if doing so means one has to involve one's self with thoughts that aren't pleasant for a while.  The fact of how you don't seem to see this makes me wonder if you've been influenced by all is good, all is good, channeled sources in an unbalanced way more than you realize.


Negative thoughts are not necessary to deal with negative situations.  This scam of Walsch's may be real, and he may be channeling a deceitful entity rather than God, and there is a way of dealing with these things while remaining in a higher vibration. 

This is how I see the situation here:  Perhaps some less-than-savory things are going on here.  These people were not forced to give their money to anyone.  They chose to because they felt it would serve them in some way, maybe even in the highest spiritual way in that service to others is service to self.  They made a bad choice, and chances are this isn't the only bad choice of this nature they have made.  They have some learning to do when it comes to discernment and gullibility, among other potential areas of self improvement.  Eventually the error of their ways will come to light, as all things do, and they will learn from the experience exactly what they needed to. 

If you really want to be constructive, perhaps you should write to the members who are being scammed, or to Neil, or to the authorities.  [smiley=lolk.gif]  I don't see many Walsch supporters speaking up, and in general I don't see many people being helped by your smear campaign against channelled sources.  The type of posts I do see people benefiting from are posts that help people gain first hand experience of their true divine nature, whether through instruction or inspiration.  And I mean "see" as in with my physical eyes, not in my mind's eye.  Like I said, you can bash one source after the other, but until people learn to discern truth from deception by accessing their higher knowing, it will be a never-ending battle.  Year after year of bashing must get tiring!  I see why you are distressed!  But, ya know what's not tiring?  Bringing people towards the light.  Been doing it for years and it never gets old.  :)


Quote:
As far as I am concerned, a state of being where one never feels distressed about the negative things that happen is not an advanced spiritual state.


Being in a state of distress is contradictory to being in a state of attunement with Christ Consciousness.  Negative thoughts or emotions stem from fear of some sort, and when one is in touch with divine truth, there is no fear.  It is possible to care for someone in a state of love and joy, rather than of worry, distress, and anger.  I doubt Jesus felt negative, fear-based emotions in his enlightened state.

 

Title: Re: Re Neale Donald Walsch's Group of 1000
Post by heisenberg69 on Dec 30th, 2011 at 5:24am
May I make the point that asking for monetary contributions per se is not the problem- all non-profit organisations (including TMI) and churches do it (e.g. collection at the end of the service). The key point is whether NDW is using the money for the betterment of humankind or to buy himself expensive Italian sports cars ...

Title: Re: Re Neale Donald Walsch's Group of 1000
Post by Lights of Love on Dec 30th, 2011 at 11:10am

recoverer wrote on Dec 29th, 2011 at 8:27pm:
By skepticism, I believe you mean the article I referred to where a person described being pressed for money by Walsch's organization. I agree that one shouldn't automatically assume that such allegations are correct.

Yes, this is what I'm saying.  If your mind is not open enough AND skeptical enough to present a non-biased factual case, then you are as Dude indicates, simply running a smear campaign, which solves nothing.  And in that case one becomes part of the problem by contributing to the falsity that already exists.

Heisenberg makes a good point.  This group of 1000 is listed as a non-profit organization in which I believe is required to report how the money they receive is spent.  If you really want to do something to help find a resolution (if one is truly needed) then why don't you focus your research in that direction?

Title: Re: Re Neale Donald Walsch's Group of 1000
Post by Rondele on Dec 30th, 2011 at 1:23pm
Well, I guess I should retract what I said about Walsch.  Maybe he's a scammer, maybe not. 

But here's what I do know- several years ago I found his book among a collection of books at a vacation beach house where we were staying.  Deal was, if a guest wanted to take home a book, that was ok as long as a replacement was left behind.

I ended up doing just that.  Book was way too long to finish at the beach, not to mention all the other distractions in such an environment.  Anyway, since Walsch claimed these were actual, literal conversations between him and God as opposed to imaginary ones, it was far too intriguing not to finish.

While reading it at home, I began to have that "deja vu" feeling that somewhere I had already read certain passages.  I knew I had never read the Walsch book before.  The more I read, the more I came upon more phrases that "God" had used in his conversations with Walsch that I knew I had seen elsewhere.

Several years before our beach trip I was reading ACIM.  I was really into that book at the time, so much so that our D-I-L gave me its Concordance as a BD gift.

Once I finished Conversations, and had marked those passages that had a familiar ring to them, I cross referenced key phrases and/or words with the Concordance.  And what do you know, some of God's sentences were almost a direct lift from ACIM with only a few words either omitted or changed around in their sequence.

So either God read ACIM before he began his conversations with Walsch, in which case Jesus could probably claim plagiarism, or Walsch read ACIM and realized there is more than enough spiritual red meat in that heavy book to re-work it into high sounding pronunciations from God himself.  After all, it wouldn't be the first time he claimed he was the author of something that in truth was written by someone else. The only difference in that case is that he admitted it.

I suppose there's a 3rd option- God really did decide to sit down with Neale.  And Neale faithfully transcribed every last Word for his devoted followers.

John Lennon summed it up nicely in one of his songs:

Nobody told me there'd be days like these
Nobody told me there'd be days like these
Nobody told me there'd be days like these
Strange days indeed --
Most Peculiar, Mama!

R

Title: Re: Re Neale Donald Walsch's Group of 1000
Post by recoverer on Dec 30th, 2011 at 2:30pm
Discerning thoughts aren't negative thoughts.

If a person has a checkered past,  sometimes it is valid to point this out. For example, I believe it is useful to point out that Sai Baba was a child molestor so some people will be less likely to get involved with his teachings.

I don't believe it is about smear campaigns. Somebody needs to take on the responsibility of exposing false sources of information.

Regarding learning discrimination, becoming involved with a false guru helped me learn discrimination, but this doesn't mean that everybody needs to get involved with a cult in order to learn discrimination. I believe this learning experience is way over done.

Plus, because I questioned the validity of some supposedly untouchable gurus that nobody would question, I had to do so all by myself. It would've been helpful if there was something I could've read that would've helped me discriminate their false concepts, instead I was all on my own.

Afterwards I made contact with my higher self and spirit guidance and they helped me clear up some of the lose ends I had missed. They helped me see through some false viewpoints I hadn't seen through sufficiently enough.

There is also the matter of how there are unfriendly beings who are trying to prevent the spiritual progress of this World. One of the ways they do so is by getting people involved with false teachings that have just enought benefits so that people fail to see the teachings' shortcomings.

Therefore, it isn't simply a matter of what lessons a person needs, it is also a matter of not enabling misleading beings to have so much success with misleading people.

I don't believe in counting our chickens before they hatch and putting the cart before the horse, so I don't mind getting annoyed about some things. If my cliches bother you, please feel free to be annoyed. ;D

Regarding ACIM versus CWG, pages 50-51 of the first book of CWG says:

Whoever: "All attack is a call for help.

Walsch: "I  read that in A Course in Miracles.

Whoever: "I put it there."

Walsch: "Boy, You have an answer for everything."

From page 100 of the 3rd volume of CWG:

Walsch" "What are you saying?"

Whoever: "I'm saying what I said through Judith Schucman (the book says Judith rather than Helen) in A Course in Miracles: You teach what you have to learn."

The above words suggest that God had something to do with ACIM. This is kind of odd because despite what some people such as myself believe about ACIM, if you go by the course's own words God doesn't have anything to do with this World. At most, he would have the holy spirit interact with it. The course itself speaks as if it comes from Jesus.

Title: Re: Re Neale Donald Walsch's Group of 1000
Post by recoverer on Dec 30th, 2011 at 2:36pm
I first read of the group of 1000 this week; therefore, it is immaterial when it comes to my feelings about CWG.  This being the case, I don't know if it would serve a purpose to keep pursing it.



Lights of Love wrote on Dec 30th, 2011 at 11:10am:

recoverer wrote on Dec 29th, 2011 at 8:27pm:
By skepticism, I believe you mean the article I referred to where a person described being pressed for money by Walsch's organization. I agree that one shouldn't automatically assume that such allegations are correct.

Yes, this is what I'm saying.  If your mind is not open enough AND skeptical enough to present a non-biased factual case, then you are as Dude indicates, simply running a smear campaign, which solves nothing.  And in that case one becomes part of the problem by contributing to the falsity that already exists.

Heisenberg makes a good point.  This group of 1000 is listed as a non-profit organization in which I believe is required to report how the money they receive is spent.  If you really want to do something to help find a resolution (if one is truly needed) then why don't you focus your research in that direction?


Title: Re: Re Neale Donald Walsch's Group of 1000
Post by Lights of Love on Dec 30th, 2011 at 3:13pm
Yes, I understand.  It's usually difficult to find people willing to take appropriate action to find and act on solutions that can bring about bigger changes in the world.  I guess it's easier to just rant about the way things are, but what a waste of productive energy if you ask me.

Title: Re: Re Neale Donald Walsch's Group of 1000
Post by heisenberg69 on Dec 30th, 2011 at 3:43pm
I don't have a problem with passages in books sounding like passages in other books if they purport to deal with Universal Truth as I guess such information would hardly be restricted to a few or unique- after all they're supposed to be Universal Truths ! I know NDW is not everyone's cup of tea but my advice to that would be simply ignore him then ! What I think would be a body blow to his personal credibility would be if he was proved (not simply alleged) secreting donated money away for his own use because honesty and openness are at the heart of his stated philosophy. I would still think that honesty and openness are good things though ...

Title: Re: Re Neale Donald Walsch's Group of 1000
Post by recoverer on Dec 30th, 2011 at 3:44pm
For the most part I had something other than ranting in mind. I had ranting in mind to the extent I find what frauds do to be annoying. I'm not unhappy about being annoyed about this. :) >:( :) You see, I'm a happy annoyed sandwich. :D



Lights of Love wrote on Dec 30th, 2011 at 3:13pm:
Yes, I understand.  It's usually difficult to find people willing to take appropriate action to find and act on solutions that can bring about bigger changes in the world.  I guess it's easier to just rant about the way things are, but what a waste of productive energy if you ask me.


Title: Re: Re Neale Donald Walsch's Group of 1000
Post by Lucy on Dec 31st, 2011 at 7:17am
If you really hate child molestation and fraud, I don't understand why you take on Sai Baba and Walsch but you never take on the Catholic Church. it always sound s like you just get pleasure from ranting about Sai Baba and NDW rather than not liking child molestation or fraud.

Not that your 2 cents are needed. For instance, I have been told that many people in Ireland no longer go to church, a reaction to the realization of years of manipulation and betrayal. I guess that is the way things evolve. Probably will with the club of 1000 also.

Title: Re: Re Neale Donald Walsch's Group of 1000
Post by Justin aka Vasya on Jan 6th, 2012 at 5:15am
  I've debated with myself about whether or not i should get involved in this thread...  I will just try to say a few things concisely, lol, if i can.

Albert, i don't disagree too much with what you've been saying here, and i've never felt that NDW was particularly intune, clear, high level, etc, but this entire thread seems to belong better in the Off topic section than maybe here?


Lucy wrote on Dec 31st, 2011 at 7:17am:
If you really hate child molestation and fraud, I don't understand why you take on Sai Baba and Walsch but you never take on the Catholic Church. it always sound s like you just get pleasure from ranting about Sai Baba and NDW rather than not liking child molestation or fraud.

Not that your 2 cents are needed. For instance, I have been told that many people in Ireland no longer go to church, a reaction to the realization of years of manipulation and betrayal. I guess that is the way things evolve. Probably will with the club of 1000 also.


   Lucy, yes, you've said this time and time again on this site.  One time i answered your question and put it into logical context for you, when i was being vocal in discrimination about some sources. 

  Basically, the short version of what i said before goes like this:  Most people at this site do not seem to be conventionally religious, but are more alternative minded and there also seems to be a lot of westerner's on this site.  For us many westerners here-- gurus, channelers, etc are more "alternative" to mainstream Christian religions. 

   Hence, speaking against Catholic priests, etc. which already is pretty widely publicized, well accepted as truth, etc. anyways, one would be wasting one's breath in "preaching to the choir" here at "Afterlife Knowledge".  Most of us are WELL aware of these issues, think they are horrible, but know religion in the mainstream sense is dying in more places than not.

  What most here don't seem to be aware of as much, are the more subtle and less publicized issues with the more attractive to us, "alternative" sources such as found in the New Age and still yet "exotic" Eastern worlds.  It's like going from Bush to Obama.  One is much easier to see issues with, but we're still getting hoodwinked folks!

   Many here seem to be much more interested in such sources--hence, if there is abuse, fraud, and the like going on in those worlds, it makes more sense to "Whistle blow" HERE in regards to these rather than to beating a dead horse with molesting Catholic priests, Church greed, etc, cause like we haven't deal with that for 1500 yrs or so.   ::)

  Rather, it seems that you are more personally annoyed with the poster than just what he is talking about.  It's curious to me how people react to these things.  On one hand, some are  preaching tolerance and nonjudgmentalism to a poster here, but yet subtly telling him what he should or shouldn't be doing,  why, how he is wasting his time, etc. and seem to get personally annoyed with him more than with than his annoyance of general corruption, greed, and abuse in the New Age and Eastern worlds which are so much more attractive to more of us than humdrum Presbyterianism, Catholicism, etc

  Apparently the irony of the situation is lost on these same folks?

  But remember this (and yes, i am preaching to you folks--what's the saying, "if you got it, flaunt it"  well girlfriends and Sha-nay-nays, I gotz it (hand motions Now)....  to each of us is given different roles in this life, and until we become PUL personified we cannot and will not be "all things to all people", but have our roles, our Schick, if you will. 

  For some, it is the "Whistle blower", for others it is the preacher of tolerance, for others it's the intellectual questioner and clarifier, and for others it's the the loud mouth preacher--you get my point. 

  I for one, am quite happy that in the business and political worlds, there are people and organizations that play the "Whistle Blower" role and bring to our attention potential fraud, abuse, etc which then make it easier for me to direct my intuitive and critical faculities towards such sources helping me to more quickly discriminate truth from falsehood. 

   Why do we value such whistle blowers in so many other areas of our lives, and yet so devalue or get annoyed by those whose "whistle blower" role is within the spiritual and consciousness?  Why do we judge so quickly and harshly these, as if we knew what's in their hearts?

  Yes, of course it's up to each of us to decide for ourselves what is relative truth or not, and if i was approaching this issue on this site, i would have just briefly stated the alleged allegations and then recommended, if one had sufficient interest, to get in touch with the highest level guidance one can, and discriminate from that "space" the truth or not of the matter.

 



Title: Re: Re Neale Donald Walsch's Group of 1000
Post by Lucy on Jan 10th, 2012 at 2:26am
"One time i answered your question and put it into logical context for you, when i was being vocal in discrimination about some sources."

but the comment was for Albert.....

Title: Re: Re Neale Donald Walsch's Group of 1000
Post by Justin aka Vasya on Jan 10th, 2012 at 11:04am

Lucy wrote on Jan 10th, 2012 at 2:26am:
but the comment was for Albert.....


  Sure, i'm aware that this time your comment was specifically directed at Albert, but the issue you brought up on a public forum seemed to be a more general one, which seemed to have direct relevance to the potential helpfulness or not of whistle blowing in relation to sources in more alternative, consciousness and spiritual worlds that people like Neale operate in. 

   I called your bluff, as they say, as you seem to have been trying to call Alberts in relation to him bringing up a general issue that was not directed at anyone here in particular. 

Title: Re: Re Neale Donald Walsch's Group of 1000
Post by Lucy on Jan 10th, 2012 at 2:49pm
called my bluff???

I know many people who don't know and don't care who Sai Baba or Walsch  or others like that are, but they know the political power of the Catholic Church. Why bother with the small change when bigger problems loom? Who does more to interfere with the advent of a new world, who does more to maintain the status quo, Walsch or...others?

Albert why do you always seem to focus on the small change, and do so incessantly? I guess I should just accept that you have a kind of knee jerk reaction to certain things and let it go and not let it be my problem too. I wish you well.

Title: Re: Re Neale Donald Walsch's Group of 1000
Post by recoverer on Jan 10th, 2012 at 3:17pm
Lucy:

I'm just one person and don't expect to change the entire World all by myself.

Consider this example. A drunk driver kills a kid and that kid's mother becomes an advocate for no drunk driving. She doesn't try to fix the entire World all by herself.  She speaks about what's close to her.

The same is true for me. I speak about what I'm familiar with. When it comes to priests who molest children, I figure there are other people who are better suited than I am to take care of such matters. The same is true for a lot of other issues that I don't devote time and effort to.



Lucy wrote on Jan 10th, 2012 at 2:49pm:
called my bluff???

I know many people who don't know and don't care who Sai Baba or Walsch  or others like that are, but they know the political power of the Catholic Church. Why bother with the small change when bigger problems loom? Who does more to interfere with the advent of a new world, who does more to maintain the status quo, Walsch or...others?

Albert why do you always seem to focus on the small change, and do so incessantly? I guess I should just accept that you have a kind of knee jerk reaction to certain things and let it go and not let it be my problem too. I wish you well.


Title: Re: Re Neale Donald Walsch's Group of 1000
Post by Justin aka Vasya on Jan 10th, 2012 at 3:39pm

Lucy wrote on Jan 10th, 2012 at 2:49pm:
I know many people who don't know and don't care who Sai Baba or Walsch or others like that are,


  Are there many such people on this site?  Context. I wouldn't go retrieving to a Mormon hollow heaven and start communicating about Buddhism there. 


Quote:
but they know the political power of the Catholic Church
.

  A power which is for the most part dying.  For the most part dogmatic religion in many areas of the world is dying, and will continue to die, thankfully.   

  However, in the west and ON SITES LIKE THESE, the New Age, Channelers, Eastern sourced beliefs, etc. are rising and growing, and yet to some extent people are still getting hoodwinked by some of the same issues, though sometimes a more subtle and different looking package is involved.  Like i said, it's like going from Bush to Obama.  It was really easy to see the issues with Bush from the get go.  Not so for our more subtle Obama, but the end result is the same, we're still getting hoodwinked. 


Quote:
Why bother with the small change when bigger problems loom? Who does more to interfere with the advent of a new world, who does more to maintain the status quo, Walsch or...others?


    Whether speaking of the Catholic Church's issues, or the issues of New Age sources, etc. the symptoms of the problems might look a bit different, but are coming from the same imbalances and fundamental issues like greed, materialism, power hunger, etc. 

  If Walsch is engaging in fraud or the like, then why shouldn't someone who cares bring up at a site like this where people into him might be, rather than the traditionally religious types who are less likely to be found here?   

  Or, why would I go to a site more so devoted to a traditional religion, and start speaking about the possible fraud or issues with Walsch?

  And why do you seem to get so bothered by Albert bringing up such issues, when it's not about or directed to you?   Why do you make it so personal? 

  More generally, why isn't it "ok" to question in a discriminating manner or whistle blow in relation to New Age and other type sources on a site that tends to attract those open to or interested in such sources?   

    Why do we value our whistle blowers in other areas of life, but try to shut up the ones here?


Conversation Board » Powered by YaBB 2.4!
YaBB © 2000-2009. All Rights Reserved.